#feylin endgame theory

[nikethestatue]

I was wondering how the feylin fans reacted when they first found out that they weren’t endgame. I fear it’s going to be even worse if elriel is confirmed since too much time has passed in between

It's gonna be bad. Firstly the fandom is like 10x bigger now than back then and Feylin vs Feysand resolved in less than a year. We are going into year 4 soon. So yeah, it won't be good. Besides, when ACOTAR was published you didn't have TikTok, BookTok, and I am not even sure about Insta. Now everyone is jacked up on 'theories' about dancing shadows. Also GAs especially tend to ignore everything and anything that doesn't align with their POV. So don't even allow for a sliver of doubt. That's not a recommended approach to how you handle fandoms. Because anything can happen. Even I leave a tiny bit of wiggle room.

[acourtofthought]

Tbh I wouldn't even take stans from tik tok serious because their takes are always straight up stupid and the same. They would pull one argument that has been discussed and resolved about 2 years ago and believe they are so smart for that. Worst thing is that you aren't able to write long text and if they respond to you, the comments are gonna be out of order so you can't really discuss anything with them. ?(Happened to me. I couldn't type fast enough before OP responded and it was messy, I suggested we talk privatly about it but OP thought they ate and said it's because I have nothing else to say or sum. So I just decided to block them and move on. It's not doing me a favour to try to explain something when it all goes out of order)

"Gwynriel didn't even have any hints" have they not read TOG? Do they not know about Yrene and Chaol? Have they not read acosf and the bonus chapter to know that gwynriel is certainly not a crackship? It really doesn't cost a brain. Are they still in that delusion that just because El/riel are sexually attracted to each other, it means endgame? I guess we buried Feylin, Chaolsryn, Celaena etc. Already

I stick with Tumblr. That is where people like you are posting theories that actually make sense and explain many things well.

I'm with you. I'm not on Twitter or TikTok but I have seen some of the arguments there, the arguments on Reddit and the ones on FB. Out of anywhere, I've found the most well thought out posts and theories (using actual canon from the book as well as patterns that SJM has used as an author in previous books) to be on Tumblr. I'm not sure the reason for that but even Anti's tend to make more valid arguments here than I've seen elsewhere. Not that I agree with the arguments or can't easily debate them but there's been a few that have made me pause for a second and really think through my response. For whatever reason (especially Tik Tok), I've seen the most farfetched theories. It's not that some of the people aren't versed in lore and mythology, you can tell they know what they're talking about, but because SJM sampled something to a very minor degree, they'll try to create a version of her future books that will be a direct retelling of something rather than little hints of it here and there. And it's exhausting when someone is so fixated on their ship that they disregard large parts of this series or other series. It should be common sense that the more knowledgeable someone is about the entirety of SJMs work, the more sound their theories and arguments will be. And there is nothing that makes them look more clueless than pretending like E/riel wanting to kiss or even Az questioning why he wasn't given a bond with Elain means their endgame is a certainty. Celaena said that in Chaol she found a home, they had sex, they thought they'd have a future and they still didn't end up abeing endgame. E/riel hasn't come close to that yet stans stomp there feet insisting that there's no way they won't end up together. I am sorry about your past experiences though and I'm happy the power of the block button has come through for you! 😁

[goforth-ladymidnight]

Hi again! 💜

I read your feylin onefic and it was wonderful, I really love the way you depict the characters. 💜

The onefic made me curious: Do you have any thoughts, theories or headcanons on how the story of ACOTAR would have continued had SJM stuck to her original plan and kept feylin as the endgame?

I really hope you are feeling better btw, please take care and stay safe! 💜

Hello! And thank you! That story was a joy to write, and I’m so glad you enjoyed it. ❤️ I appreciate your patience in waiting for an answer this question while I was in the hospital. I’m home now, and feeling much better. After giving your question a lot of thought, here’s what I’ve come up with. (Settle in! It’s a long one.)

First things first. Whatever SJM may say about Feysand, she started off adapting the Ballad of Tam Lin/Beauty and the Beast, indicating that she did want Feylin as endgame at one point. I must admit that I do find SJM’s choice to adapt Hades and Persephone for the sequel to be unique and creative, even though I don’t care for the execution. (Or Tamlin’s character assassination.)

So, assuming that nothing changes about ACOTAR (bargain tattoo included), that means that Feyre is still Rhysand’s mate, and she must visit him in the Night Court for one week every month. I want to keep that in this story. Since she has a human heart inside a High Fae body, this gives us room to explore the dynamic between her head and her heart, and lets us wonder if she’ll choose her mate or her own fate (with Tamlin). Of course, since this is my version, she’ll choose Tamlin in the end, but I would prefer that the story actually makes us wonder.

I still like the idea of Hybern being the next big enemy, but the focus of this story would be on Prythian itself. There is a tentative peace after Amarantha’s reign; the courts are trying to rebuild, and Feyre is trying to adjust to her new life.

I’m not against the idea that Feyre and Tamlin both have nightmares after their experiences Under the Mountain. However, I would tie that into the fact that Rhysand hasn’t called in his bargain yet. Give Feyre a physical reaction to the magical bond she shares with him, so that they both bear the consequences of an unfulfilled bargain. Hence we see the nightmares and the vomiting. Perhaps over the week of the full moon? But of course, Feyre and Tamlin don’t realize what’s really going on, since she was once human, and she might think it’s her new body reacting to her “time of the month”.

As for the smaller details, I want to see moments of comfort and calm between Feyre and Tamlin. I want to see them press their foreheads together and breathe in unison when they’re feeling anxious. Love scenes are good, but I also want the intimacy of what comes after. She presses her cheek to his chest so that she can hear his heart beating, and he rests his chin on her head and falls asleep with her cocooned safely in his arms.

Since half of his face was covered by a mask, Feyre takes every opportunity to brush his hair back from his forehead. Tamlin’s claws haven’t made an appearance for months. I want to see them in his study together as he slowly teaches her how to read. I want to see their engagement. I imagine that the square-cut emerald ring is an old Spring Court heirloom (it may or may not have belonged to his mother), and though Feyre is initially thrilled with it, she begins to feel the weight of her future role as Lady of the Spring Court. (That’s not too different from what happens in canon, but this time the engagement isn’t mentioned as an afterthought.)

Enter Ianthe. She’s not there just as a wedding planner, though she certainly wants to be involved. It would be quite the career-boost, so to speak, to officiate a High Lord’s wedding. However, I don’t want her to seem like a shallow villain who just wants power. I like the kind of villain who has goals we can understand, even if we don’t agree with them. So I imagine that Ianthe wants to re-open The Mountain so that the priestesses can reclaim it, and it just so happens that the ruins are rumored to be the final resting place of the Cauldron itself, which is a sacred artifact to the priestesses.

Side note: I know in canon that the Cauldron was once on the continent, but I would prefer to keep the action to Prythian and Hybern in this book. Therefore my headcanon is that everything related to the Cauldron is in Prythian, from the pot itself to the three feet to the two halves of the Book of Breathings. The whole debacle with the mortal queens wasn’t my favorite part of Book 2, so I’m ignoring that for now.

I’m going to leave the timeline more or less intact, as I don’t want to gloss over the importance of Calanmai. In fact, I might make that a more important feature in Book 3, but for now we have the wedding to look forward to. And Feyre is looking forward to it, especially since it means seeing her sisters again, even if it is just for a short while. I imagine it is Ianthe who makes her doubt whether her human family should come, since Amarantha’s beasts still roam the forests, and there are many faeries--High and Low alike--who do not care for humans. Little comments like that make Feyre begin to doubt herself and her human heart. She’s High Fae now, and she should act like it.

Regardless, not long after, the invitations are sent out across Prythian. This isn’t going to be some small Spring Court affair, after all. This is the wedding of the century! Not only is this a High Lord’s wedding, but Tamlin is marrying Feyre Cursebreaker, the Savior of Spring and Defender of the Seven Courts. This is a chance to celebrate, and to make peace. However, one person in particular is not thrilled to receive an invitation. Rhysand decides that if he’s going to have any kind of chance to win over his mate, he has to act before the wedding.

In this story, it’s OK that Rhys is selfish. He’s not rescuing Feyre from a panic attack. He just spent half a century Under the Mountain, and he’s not willing to give up his mate so easily, especially to his enemy. Feyre has to go with him, of course, and throughout the course of the book, we learn more about what happened between those two High Lords, and she realizes that the Night Court is not as villainous as she had been led to believe. Still somewhat villainous, though, because drama. (Also, I want Tamlin’s side of the story about what happened to Rhys’s mother and sister. Feyre was too quick to accept that Rhys’s story was the absolute truth.)

I have seen some fan theories that suggest that Rhys used his daemati powers to influence Feyre’s thoughts, aka brainwashing, but I don’t know if I would go that far. There would be accusations of his influence, certainly, but I don’t know how far I’d push Rhys to be an outright villain. 

Tamlin is a nervous wreck when Feyre comes back, and he is desperate to find a way to break the bargain between them (but not the mating bond, because his parents were mates, and he knows how sacred that kind of bond is). He pushes for a smaller, faster wedding, thinking that his marriage to Feyre will get Rhys to back off. Then they can have a larger party with all of the High Lords and her human family later on. Feyre is understandably hurt by this, as she doesn’t like to think of herself as anyone’s possession. After all, Amarantha thought of Tamlin as hers, which is why Feyre went Under the Mountain in the first place. So there’s a small wedge growing between our lovebirds. (I did say I wanted Feyre’s choice to feel like a choice, after all.)

I haven’t even mentioned how Feyre’s burgeoning powers play into this. I do know that there needs to be a limit to how powerful she is, and limits are not something that are well-defined in canon. I would still like to see her develop her gifts, but I don’t know how involved Tamlin should be. I just know I don’t want him to forbid training her, because that aspect of his character really bothered me. Make him protective, sure, but not to the point of stifling her. In fact, I think he would be all right with Lucien training her physically, with a sword and on horseback. Tamlin was trained as a warrior, after all, and he learned to suppress his magic gifts to avoid detection by his brothers, so why wouldn’t he think to encourage the same for Feyre?

Feyre goes along with this at first, until Rhys points out that stifling her magic now will only make her a bigger target later. Of course, he offers to train her magically while she’s with him. And how convenient that her magic will help them as they search for the magical artifacts scattered across Prythian? Now we have this push and pull between Rhys pushing her mentally (for his own selfish ends, let’s admit it), and Tamlin pushing her physically. Meanwhile she’s just trying to find the right balance between the two, since she feels torn between what she was and who she has become.

And speaking of training, I liked visiting the Summer Court in canon. Rhys takes her there to get the other half of the Book, but she insists that they ask for it first. Rhys is used to acting alone, so he is reluctant, but Feyre wants to do things right. They still end up stealing it, but only because she has been led to believe that it is for the greater good. (She will have learned about the looming threat of Hybern by now, so she is more easily convinced.) This becomes one of the first big secrets between her and Tamlin, and it eats away at her. On the one hand, she can feel herself becoming stronger under Rhys’s tutelage, but on the other, she betrayed the trust of one of the Seasonal Courts who was an ally Under the Mountain.

The Mountain has always been a natural barrier between the Solar and Seasonal Courts, and though there is a kind of peace between them now after Amarantha, all is not well between them. For fun, let’s say that both halves of the Book of Breathings are in Prythian: one in the Seasonal Courts, and the other in the Solar Courts. We know the first is in Summer, so let’s put the other half in one of the libraries of the Day Court (since I consider those courts as mirrors of the other). Let’s make Lucien’s heritage a bigger part of this story, while we’re at it.

And speaking of heritage, I also want to learn more about existing characters, specifically their names. The Lady of Autumn is one, and Papa Archeron and the King of Hybern are the others, though I’m sure there are more.

I could make this response twice as long, and there is still more I could think to add to this story. For now, I think this is a good start, especially since it’s been a while since I read ACOMAF all the way through. If I sat down and thought about it, I could come up with a whole outline to change that book into a Feylin-friendly version, but I hope you’re content with what I’ve come up with. I have other projects that take precedence, unfortunately.

I don’t want to leave you hanging, though, so I will tell you the conclusion of the story (as it would be in Book 3). I would try to find another fairy tale I could adapt for the final story in the trilogy--and it would have to be a trilogy--but at this point I don’t know which one I’d choose. I just know that Feyre wouldn’t be a spy hellbent on taking the Spring Court down from the inside. That was my least favorite part of ACOWAR.

Anyway, at the very end of the story, Feyre would have to make the difficult decision between siding with her mate or choosing Tamlin. Spoiler: she chooses Tamlin with her whole heart, echoing the concept from Book 1 and tying everything together in a neat little bow. Although the soulmate concept is a romantic one, this story is about taking your fate in your own hands instead of letting it be decided for you.

This question was a challenge, but I enjoyed it! I didn’t expect my answer to take so long or to be so long, so thank you for sticking with me. And thanks again for visiting my inbox!

[goforth-ladymidnight]

THIS MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!

I wanted to add on the description of the "palace in the sky" from ch. 41:

I looked toward the small vent in the corner of the ceiling through which the music entered my cell. The source must have been far away, for it was just a faint stirring of notes, but when I closed my eyes, I could hear it more clearly. I could … see it. As if it were a grand painting, a living mural. There was beauty in this music—beauty and goodness. The music folded over itself like batter being poured from a bowl, one note atop another, melting together to form a whole, rising, filling me. It wasn’t wild music, but there was a violence of passion in it, a swelling kind of joy and sorrow. I pulled my knees to my chest, needing to feel the sturdiness of my skin, even with the slime of the oily paint upon it. The music built a path, an ascent founded upon archways of color. I followed it, walking out of that cell, through layers of earth, up and up—into fields of cornflowers, past a canopy of trees, and into the open expanse of sky. The pulse of the music was like hands that gently pushed me onward, pulling me higher, guiding me through the clouds. I’d never seen clouds like these—in their puffy sides, I could discern faces fair and sorrowful. They faded before I could view them too clearly, and I looked into the distance to where the music summoned me. It was either a sunset or sunrise. The sun filled the clouds with magenta and purple, and its orange-gold rays blended with my path to form a band of shimmering metal. I wanted to fade into it, wanted the light of that sun to burn me away, to fill me with such joy that I would become a ray of sunshine myself. This wasn’t music to dance to—it was music to worship, music to fill in the gaps of my soul, to bring me to a place where there was no pain. I didn’t realize I was weeping until the wet warmth of a tear splashed upon my arm. But even then I clung to the music, gripping it like a ledge that kept me from falling. I hadn’t realized how badly I didn’t want to tumble into that deep dark—how much I wanted to stay here among the clouds and color and light. I let the sounds ravage me, let them lay me flat and run over my body with their drums. Up and up, building to a palace in the sky, a hall of alabaster and moonstone, where all that was lovely and kind and fantastic dwelled in peace. I wept—wept to be so close to that palace, wept from the need to be there. Everything I wanted was there—the one I loved was there— The music was Tamlin’s fingers strumming my body; it was the gold in his eyes and the twist of his smile. It was that breathy chuckle, and the way he said those three words. It was this I was fighting for, this I had sworn to save. The music rose—louder, grander, faster, from wherever it was played—a wave that peaked, shattering the gloom of my cell. A shuddering sob broke from me as the sound faded into silence. I sat there, trembling and weeping, too raw and exposed, left naked by the music and the color in my mind.

I am now convinced that this is why the Night Court couldn't be 100% night all the time. Because light is what gave Feyre hope in the dark. Could SJM have written it in such a way that it actually meant starlight and moonlight? Yes. Did she? NO.

Yes, I am fully aware of the significance of stars and foreshadowing. F/eysand is endgame. I GET IT. But in this passage SPECIFICALLY, it is golden sunlight that Feyre sees.

And I want to weep for what could have been.

The post was getting too long but RE: your theory about Tamlin's hidden castle, how does it feel to have the biggest brain to ever brain? Because I definitely think you're onto something there. I had completely forgotten about that forest description, probably because I've been busy scratching my head about why the starlight pool was even included in the Spring Court narratively-speaking, and why, if it and its origins are actually important to book 1 or even to prop up Feysand, we never hear about it again. But yeah, if we chip off the paint from the moonstone palace, would we see the glade, the starlight pool, and the Solstice hidden underneath?

Awww thank you 🥺 I'm glad you see it as well! Initially, I speculated that the starlight pool served as a secret doorway/portal to the "palace in the sky" XD because faelore, and there seemed to be a connection between moonstone and starlight.

I decided to reread this scene and the images Feyre saw UTM after you mentioned the forest description!

This is what follows it (ACOTAR, chapter 18):

Shimmering tufts of dandelion fluff drifted by, and the floor of the clearing was carpeted with swaying crocuses and snowdrops and bluebells. It was an hour or two past noon by the time we arrived, but the light was thick and golden.

Though the three of us were alone, I could have sworn I heard singing. I hugged my knees and drank in the glen.

Rushed whispers were exchanged behind me, and before I could turn around to investigate, Tamlin took a seat at my side. His jaw was clenched tight enough that I stared ahead. “What is this place?” I said, still running my fingers through the grass.

Out of the corner of my eye, Tamlin was no more than a glittering golden figure. “Just a glen.” Behind us, Lucien snorted. Do you like it?” Tamlin asked quickly. The green of his eyes matched the grass between my fingers, and the amber flecks were like the shafts of sunlight that streamed through the trees. Even his mask, odd and foreign, seemed to fit into the glen—as if this place had been fashioned for him alone. I could picture him here in his beast form, curled up in the grass, dozing.

I speculate that this scene was originally supposed to be more than just a beautiful landscape or Tamlin's favorite haunt. I think it was hinting at more.

Is the golden light somehow related to the golden light that exploded from Tamlin, the golden armor he "wore" when he regained his powers? Who or what was singing? What were the rushed whispers about? Why did Lucien snort when Tamlin said it was just a glen?

Now I'm wondering if Tamlin was trying to show Feyre more of this mysterious place when he sent her the music. Or perhaps he was showing her scenes from the Summer Solstice and this place. But we'll never know :') Anyways, thanks for helping me to process this theory XD The newsletters you shared have led me down quite the rabbit hole— thank you!!

[bookofmirth]

okay, be honest with me

you think there is a real (like r.e.a.l.) chance of el/riel being endgame? I didn’t have anything agains the couple, you know, I didn’t like it but if it was sjm wanted I would read it but after the nasty stans I totally loathe the couple now

No. I honestly don't think there is. I've made a similar post before but it was kinda jokey. Here are my actual reasons why:

A majority of the "evidence" I have seen of them being a potential couple is just them existing in a room at the same time. They are not currently canon. They are not in a relationship.

Azriel's POV took place after chapter 58 in the book. It began with him being jealous, angry, lonely and Elain showing sexual attraction to one another. It ended with him smiling about Gwyn.

Rhys told Azriel no. He then backed off. I'm not sure where the narrative is coming from that he is willing to fight for Elain. He gave up. We know this because:

After his POV, about 3-4 months of time passed in the book during which they had zero interactions, even when they were in the same room (which was only once). There are no more exchanged glances, he doesn't mention her, nothing.

Outside of his chapter, Az and Elain don't exchange a single bit of dialogue in the entire book.

After his chapter, Gwyn flirts with Az and Nesta tells him he is the new ribbon. We know what she is telling him. People who don't are playing dumb.

After his chapter, Azriel helps Gwyn to pass the Blood Rite Qualifier. Compare that with him not wanting Elain to even try helping with the Dread Trove, though she volunteered. There is a very clear contrast between Azriel aiding and empowering Gwyn to achieve her goals, and Azriel preventing Elain from being autonomous. SJM loves couples who empower each other (feysand, nessian, rowaelin, elorcan), and never ones who tear each other down or prevent each other from taking action (chaolaena, feylin).

Azriel did not - I repeat, he did not - identify what was wrong with Elain in acowar. I know a lot of theories hinge on this. However, they are misreading the scene. Azriel doesn't identify Elain's problem. He identifies her power. And immediately thinks about how and why that power will be useful to the IC. If he had identified her "problem", the next discussion should have been how to make her better. Not how they could use that to their advantage.

On a related note, I still firmly believe that Elain and Azriel have the potential to be toxic. I've avoided using that word in the past because I think it's overused and people use it without understanding what it means, but it's true. No one is saying they currently are because they aren't in a relationship. Relationships don't start off abusive or toxic. Feylin didn't start off that way. I think Tamlin still loves Feyre. That doesn't mean that he didn't hurt her by trying to take away her agency, much in the same way that Azriel tries to take away Elain's. I still have a crapton of thoughts about this because I saw a shitty take today that acted like abuse is an all-or-nothing deal and because Az has been nice to Elain so far, that means he would never step out of line. That's blatantly untrue and not how abusive or even toxic relationships work.

As a couple, Elain and Az would enable the worst parts of each other.

As a couple, Gwyn and Az would challenge each other to be better.

SJM has never, at any point, talked about Elain and Azriel as a couple. She has talked about elucien as a couple.

If Gwyn weren't a threat, people wouldn't be bent out of shape trying to invalidate her in every single way possible - she's too young and immature, she's secretly evil, she can't have sex because she's an SA survivor, she's just a side character, etc. etc.

Gwynriel + elucien + emorie + jurassa = a HEA for everyone.

Lucien is Elain's mate. Azriel is not.

We don't know what Elain wants, but not a single sjm ship has started with the pair even liking each other. Maybe lysaedion? Every other ship has been combative and distrustful at first. Elain and Azriel don't even have that tension.

The tension in other sjm ships has been internal - reasons why the two characters mistrust one another, or have conflict, or don't like each other, or misunderstand each other. She doesn't tend to write ships where the conflict keeping them apart is external. This is partly why people love her characters so much - we get to know a lot about their feelings and motivations etc. and so the world stuff just... suffers, sometimes.

I'm sure I could think of other reasons, but these are the main ones. There isn't a way to say with 100% certainty that yes or no, this or that thing will or won't happen in the future. Technically, anything could happen. They could time travel in the next books and meet JD Salinger and then learn French and bring electricity back to Prythian. I doubt it, though. So is e*riel possible? Eh. I'd say like 0.0001%, based on how she has written them so far, how she has written other characters, and the way she has written other ships. And since it's becoming more evident that she has a limited range of character and ship types that she likes to write, I don't know if she'd deviate from that.

[yazthebookish]

This is your occasional Yaz post about the shipwar since there is no escape but one manages to keep a safe distance.

Like, I don't understand why some people get so mad about others liking Gwynriel and thinking it's going to happen?

Ship what you want but don't invalidate other shippers.

I get why Elr*els ship Elr*el, it doesn't appeal to me and I don't think it's happening but I'm not gonna jump at every person that ships them and say "stop clowning yourself it's not happening" or get triggered every time I see someone says "I ship Elr*el" or take a screenshot and call over my clique to slander those individuals publicly "I'm not only talking about myself".

For example, Vass*en doesn't make much sense to me because as far as I have noted, there was not one romantic coding for them and last I checked, Lucien was staring at Elain with longing so I'm not sure how Vassa would feel about someone she is intimately involved with looking at another person, his mate, with longing. But, I'll not jump at those shippers and say your ship doesn't make sense don't ship it.

Shipping is fun until it isn't or people stop making it fun because it gets too personal.

There are some annoying Gwynriels I have to admit, especially some Gwynriels on Tiktok which is why I avoid Tiktok and the ones on Instagram that write unecessary comments under any Elr*el art. Each group has bad apples on its side but also each group makes sure that such behavior becomes less and not enable more of it? For example, my friends and the gwynriels I know do not agree on the "womb argument" because it's ridiculous and harmful whether the author intended it or not. So, when someone whether it's a Gwynriel or casual reader uses that argument we do have a little chat about why it's wrong to use such argument to make others stop using it to prop up a ship.

Just because you shipped a couple for months or years or you believe they had build-up in more than one book and the author can't back off now doesn't invalidate other ships and doesn't mean that they are endgame. If there is anything about Sarah is that if she wants something to happen or she wants her story and characters to go on a different route she will make it happen. We are talking about the same author that retconned Mor not being at Sangravah to her being there in ACOSF during Gwyn's rescue "for a reason" and then you have her retconning Lucien meeting Papa Archeron and an already freed Vassa on his way to the continent to ACOSF mentioning that Lucien was there with Papa Archeron at Koschei's lake to bargain with Koschei for Vassa's freedom "for a reason".

It doesn't matter whether a couple had or did not have build-up, it does not guarantee endgame. You know who is Azriel's endgame when you get his book or if Sarah mentions it in the synopsis. I personally think it's Gwyn for reasons I already stated many times before and I'm confident it's her based on how Sarah wrote ACOSF and Azriel's bonus chapter.

The only couples Sarah ever spoke about besides Feylin and Feysand were Nessian and Elucien. That's not speculation that's a fact because there is evidence of her saying it. She never spoke about Elr*el, Gwynriel, or Vass*en. Does that mean any of them do not have a chance? No, Sarah has her own rules but she'll even make new ones if she wants to.

We can argue and disagree on theories and opinions but it doesn't mean we get to keep chasing people or make fun of them to stop them from shipping a couple you personally think won't happen but let's not kid ourselves, anything can happen at this point. I was a casual reader once so I didn't ship Gwynriel out of spite of any ships, I wasn't a shipper of anything in ACOTAR, I just picked up on the crumbs and it made sense to me.

[nikethestatue]

Antis loves to said elriel won’t happen because sjm doesn’t write forbidden romance. First I don’t think anyone should base an endgame in that I mean look a bryce and Hunt people were saying there weren’t going to end together because Hunt was her first love interest and Sarah never make endgame with firsts love interest. Mainly elriels were saying yes they are because of the evidence plus on the book it was confirmed they are mades😂 and even after that antis ask sjm on the live if Hunt is her real mate and look at the face she made of wtf. She could easily decide she wanted something different for elriel and you can see that because of the evidence we have ,it doesn’t matter if she has never write a friends to lover/forbidden romance is the fact she has foreshadow the trope for 3 books now. I am not saying we shouldn’t look at her past book for guidance because of course she has a way to write her books but it doesn’t mean she is going to copy paste everything is the same dilemma with chaol having a book and az will have one because cahol did😂that is not reason enough give me evidence or foreshadowing that this is going to happen in what part of the book does it show he is having a separate story line or how gwyn will save illyria like i get you want that but where in the book is that foreshadow it was not like in the book said “ and Gwyn look at illyria like a opponent “ “azriel has always wanted to help illyria” “something like a charge went between az and gwyn “ nothing of that happened. If sjm write a book like that I think more than one will be like well the hell this came from?

I love theories but to me if there is not multiple evidence for it then is just a fanfic.

You are right Anon.

The thing is that there are more than one 'forbidden love' storylines in Crescent City happening already. In ACOTAR, we have everyone's fan faves--Helion and LOA. We have Mor and Andromache. So to say SJM 'never' does something is plainly false. If we are talking about 'mains' we've only had 4 'main' couples in all of SJM writing--Aelin and Rowan, Rhys and Feyre, Nesta and Cassian and Hunt and Bryce. So that's not exactly an overwhelming number of examples to build any hypothesis on.

Also, do people really want to read the same story again and again and again? It's kind of weird to me. It also doesn't have to fall into tropes. I know that the TikTok crowd can't comprehend anything that's written if it doesn't fall into a certain trope, but experienced authors like SJM write stories. They don't write tropes. And I don't see SJM as a trope writer. She might be a reteller, but she doesn't take your basic trope and then just sticks characters into it. So to say that she can't write something that had an element of forbidden love in it is frankly insulting. And a bunch of nonsense. Because of course I've also read 'theories' how she doesn't write friends-to-lovers...so Elriel can't happen. By the same token, what would Gwynriel be then? What are they, if not friends-to-friends?

People make up all kinds of crap to fit a circle into a square. It's just pure silliness.

"SJM can't' 'SJM won't!' -- it's so stupid. This is the chick who destroyed Feylin and set Feyre up with an evil, ruthless High Lord. Really? she 'can't'? She can. And she does.

[acourtofthought]

Hello!

I don't know why I can't comment on your post, but I realized it's not just your account anyway. Your post was very accurate about what I think about bonds and characters.

Lucien has been rejected his entire life, he didn't choose that bond, yet the Mother and/or Cauldron made them equal.

SJM had Ccity to work on bonding refusals or even removing the idea of ​​partners. She didn't do that, on the contrary, she included four mating couples.

I would accept any refusal of a bond but Lucien's. It's too unfair, even if the partnership is fake as the Elriel insist to be equal to Rowan's would be very unfair. Rowan had a false partnership, but he loved his wife and they were going to have a child together. He grieved for their deaths and never forgot.

Lucien didn't have anything from Elain, nor did he make friends during those years. Mor says in acofas that "they weren't ready yet" and I really believed that this would be a start for them.

Elriel supporters revel in the theory of forbidden romance (which doesn't exist in their trope). They'd love to see them hiding from Lucien in the dead of night, those things make me sick. Elain has the right to refuse the partnership, just do it, there would be no point playing with Lucien.

Same case is Gwyn, why did SJM put emphasis between her and Az during acosf if it was for nothing? There were scenes that didn't even need to include details about the two of them.

What about Bryce and Hunt's extra chapter that's the same as Azriel's? (a book released a year after acosf). These jokes with the reader would be disgusting, sorry for the outburst.

SJM never gave Elriel language or signs other than an attraction, but this we had hundreds of couples like: Feylin, Chaolaena and Dorian and Sorsha. They were couples who had more romance time than Elriel and they weren't endgames.

These people need to respect the kindred spirits that SJM writes about.

I'm really loving everything you just said.

And your first point is so valid. E/riels like to claim Az needs someone to choose him so he can see his worth but, he's had 500+ years with the people who did choose him.

Sure maybe Mor didn't choose him for a relationship but she still loves him and he has an entire group of people who would die for him. Who have made him a priority in their lives. Even Nesta who disliked most of the IC was really decent to Az.

Exactly who is making Lucien a priority in their life? And he has been rejected over and over again since the series started. His family, Tamlin, even Feyre when she didn't feel all that bad using him as a pawn. Nesta certainly didn't care for Lucien before the end of SF where we get hints she's coming around.

Why even keep Lucien around, having us see the members of the IC slowly coming around to him if SJM isn't building to an accepted Mating Bond?

And yes to your comment about Crescent City! I never looked at it that way. SJM kept the Mate theme going which you're right, she didn't have to do. If as a Fated Mates author she felt it was too cliche for her characters to find their actual Mate (I hate this argument because no one accuses other trope-centric authors of writing too many books in that trope 🤦), she could have moved on from it in her new series.

I like that you brought of what Mor said because that's not in there for no reason.

Reader: Boy! Why hasn't Elain done anything about the bond?! Or even Lucien?!

SJM through Mor: “Stay out of it. She’s not ready, and neither is he, no matter how many presents he brings.”. “Let him live with his Band of Exiles. Let him deal with Tamlin in his own way. Let him figure out where he wants to be. Who he wants to be. The same goes with her.”

I mean, is that not currently what's going on in SF? They're both trying to find if their new lives "fit" but I think we're going to see they don't. But that's ok, it's normal to explore and make mistakes before finally ending up where you're supposed to. Figuring out who you want to be takes a little more than a year after you both experienced some extreme changes.

Really, 👏👏👏 to your entire message.

[bookofmirth]

i come in peace-

i just want to say that it's obvious that next book will be about elriel, whether they are endgame or not (knowing sjm chances are high), they will be the main couple of book 5. gwyn was thrown in the bonus chapter to create conflict, but i think she'll become a shadowsinger and bond w az over that, but i don't think they'll be romantically involved. and as for lucien, elain hasn't shown interest in him and i think it's clear that she's pining for az. (i see luc w vassa and/or jurien tho!!).

so yeah, i get all the diff opinions on the az bonus ch and it's cool that the fandom has various thoughts (as long as they're respectul lmao) but it's pretty safe to say that elain and az will be the next main couple.

now, unlike the feylin vs feysand drama,, fans have been shipping elucien/elriel for years now, so next book is gonna be a controversial one, of couse, until we get it we won't know, but i hope people don't expect sjm to anounce that next book is gonna be elucien centered when it's v unlikely to happen,, and half of the fans will be disappointed bc ship wars and stuff

anyways,, have a nice weekend! ;)

So I partially agree with you? And yes - RESPECTFUL READERS ILY IN MY INBOX

Here is my theory for the next two books (not the novella), just a brief overview of how the relationships go but nothing to do with plot of villains:

Elain has never in her life had a rebellious phase. She’s 23-ish and she has never lived with anyone but her family. She has been coddled. She’s tired of being coddled. 

Az is a good option to rebel with. He’s dark and handsome and a bit scary, but he seems safe because she knows that he’s loyal to Rhys and Feyre.

They do anything from flirting to fucking, idk. At the moment, I’m leaning more towards flirting and/or heavy petting because of Gwyn.

However, it doesn’t go well. idk if it would go full-out feylin, or just be like Aelin and Dorian realizing that kissing each other is like kissing a sibling. Could go either way, given that 1) sjm has said she sees them as siblings, 2) she’s shown them to be incompatible in a long-term healthy relationship, 3) Az seems like he’s nowhere near being able to have a healthy, sustainable relationship.

Meanwhile, Lucien is there just... letting Elain have her space to figure things out. Maybe he’s part of the overall plot, helping fight Koschei or whatever. Not sure.

I think that whatever the main plot, all three of them are involved in it and so Elain does get to know Lucien, at least a bit. They have more interactions.

Along the way Elain has to figure out her powers? 

So it goes poorly with Az, and Elain realizes that she was having her rebellious phase, but now that she’s had the chance to do that and be away from Feyre and Nesta, she realizes...

She is understanding herself and what she wants better.

Enter Lucien. I want there to be some sort of effort. Him to go to her and declare his love, or vice versa. Or both at the same time! 

Basically, I wouldn’t be surprised if Elain and Az fool around, but it’s not endgame. There are way too many clues that point to them not working out long-run, whereas the little we know about Elain’s character looks like she would blossom (heh) in a relationship with Lucien.

I could see Elain and Az being together the whole book and then going their separate ways, or them being together for a hot second and then being like uhhhh... nevermind. That’s a simplification, but hopefully you know what I mean! Either way, I still see elucien as endgame. The evidence is overwhelming. 

(That said, if it worked out so that Az is actually not as fucked up as he showed himself to be in the short, I could change my mind. I have too long of a history with this fandom though, with the ship starting in the first place because of fandom misogyny, to be fully on board.)

EDIT - WAIT ONE MORE THING - I don't think Gwyn was thrown into the Az chapter. There was evidence for that in the book itself. OKay that's all!