#fe3h fandom discourse

[real-fire-emblem-takes]

I really want them to stop with the avatar characters just so the "they cannot marry ME (aka the avatar) regardless of gender, therefore they're not queer!" discourse. Characters like Dimitri, Felix, Balthus, Hilda, Leo, Camilla, Anette, Constance and the like all have tons and tons of subtext (and straight up text in some cases) on how they're clearly Bisexual at the least, but bc they cannot marry the player, all of that gets thrown out of the window.

those ppl will ignore the queerness anyway. let the avatars be

[burr-ell]

"the tendency of this fandom to only engage with what THEY want these characters to be#as opposed to what their creators are trying to do and the stories they want to tell" slap this on a bumper sticker, you just summed all cr discourse (about PCs at least) in 2 sentences

It truly is maddening (and it's not by any means exclusive to the CR fandom). The reason why the discourse always goes the way it does is that at the end of the day, the loud fanwanky people only see what they would do, if they were self-inserted into the story, as a valid choice; and they are, more broadly, fundamentally disinterested in what others think or feel. There are several examples of this, and the variety of spaces within the fandom that produce these ideas is an indicator that this isn't endemic to one specific group of people.

-Keyleth is an important character whose feelings and choices are validated by the other PCs and cast even if they still disagree with them, in spite of how she and her preachiness get in the way of the Murderhobo Jubilee? It's not because the cast are all friends and they genuinely believe Keyleth is valid and are interested in how these discussions and choices can guide the story. It's because Marisha is the DM's girlfriend, and also here's my totally unbiased theory that my pet favorite players Sam and Travis secretly hate Marisha and Keyleth.

-Vax's presence is still felt and nodded to in the post-canon VM oneshots? It's not because he was an important character who mattered. It's because Liam wants to make everyone talk about his tragedy because he has Main Character Syndrome. Scanlan Wishes for Vax to appear at the wedding? It's not because he cares about Vex or because Sam and Liam wanted a sweet tribute to Vex and Vax's relationship and by extension Liam and Laura's friendship. It's because Liam thinks Vex's life should always revolve around Vax, and Sam wants to enable him and jerk himself off as the one who facilitated it.

-Beauyasha and Fjorester become canon? It's not because the players wanted it and it happened naturally. It's because there was a secret behind-the-scenes push to "force" those ships to become canon instead, and like, Dani Carr is some sort of shipping puppetmaster who made the players do it, and "they" (whomever "they" is) decided to sink Beaujester or Widojest because it was "obviously" going to become canon before the pandemic hiatus gave them time to "make the corporate-approved ships happen".

-Beau and Caleb try to reform the Empire and dismantle the Cerberus Assembly from within? It's not because it makes sense for their stories or that people who would take this position regarding a corrupt government might have a valid perspective that differs from your own. It's because the people at Critical Role Productions LLC are all spineless neoliberal cowards who won't commit to real activism. The best activism, after all, is violent, and violent revolutions have always resulted in stable aftermaths, and the real world has never demonstrated that this mindset is foolish.

-Relatedly: Caleb doesn't kill Trent personally? It's not because the most poetic justice would be to deny Trent the thing he wants most from Caleb. It's because "Limo Brain" is too obsessed with tragedy to have the stones to do "what needs to be done".

-Asmodeus, DnD Satan, turns out to also be CR Satan? It's not because it fits with the cosmology and the lore; it's because Matt Mercer is too attached to the "establishment", and the Prime Deities should have actually turned out to be the bad guys because of my personal baggage about Western religion and Christianity they're a little mean to my blorbo sometimes.

There's a pattern here: fans had expectations that they'd built up for themselves after projecting and building up fanon and deciding what players meant before they explained themselves fully, and when the players strayed from that, they were derided for all manner of reasons. I think we're seeing that same pattern play out in C3 as the story progresses in a way that fans dislike, and in fact we have seen fanwank spread whenever someone does anything that interferes with personally catering to a) the favored ship and/or b) the favored philosophy. (Orym, Ashton, FCG, Percy, Pelor...all valid when they affirm the Fandom Opinions and all disdained when they don't.)

Don't get me wrong, I think there's a place for comfort stories that deliver a personal catharsis. And I'm not going to dismissively say "well if you want it so bad make your own" because, as an artist, I am very familiar with the fact that creating is hard and draining and sometimes you just need to consume instead. But when you become so wrapped up in yourself and your feelings to the point where your perspective is the only valid one, someone else's feels like a betrayal when it isn't. It's always "They aren't doing what we wanted and here's why they're terrible people because of it" and never "Hmm, why is this what the cast wants? Let's examine that."

This isn't a new phenomenon, but I think it ultimately stems from not assuming that other people can differ from you in major ways in good faith. There are a lot of reasons for that (some more understandable than others), but I think you rob yourself of the potential to enjoy something new when all you do is demand what you already want. No matter what you're doing or where you are in life, you tend to become a better and wiser person when you open your mind to what other people have to say, no matter how mundane the subject matter. Sometimes the stories people have to tell are challenging—and the only healthy way to deal with that is to engage with them on their own terms.

[irrevocably-delicious]

I’m invited to a powerpoint party this weekend, and I decided to do a presentation on Fire Emblem. But SPECIFICALLY why the Engage fandom seems to be a little quiet, while the Three houses fandom gets to keep chugging along (although quieter than before).

I thought tumblr might like to look at some (not all) of my slides as I know this has been a topic of discussion in the community for the past week or so. My basic thesis is that 3H has deeper, more interconnected characters who all have a very clear voice - so they are quite easy to plop into different scenarios and make fanfic/fan comics/etc about them. They are very compelling and it’s easy to fall in love with many of them. The replayability of 3H also means that fans are engaged with it for much longer - so they are probably actively consuming or producing 3H related content longer than they would be for engage. If a game keeps you hooked for a long time, it’s going to prevent you from finding new fandoms to join.

Anyway, these are just my ideas. Who knows if they’re correct, and there are LOADS of other factors that I didn’t discuss as for likely reasons 3houses is a more popular game (first fe switch release, 3hopes spin off, pandemic). I just hope some of you find it mildly thought provoking.

[captainrufflebanger]

Why I'm not surprised that twitter people blocked you for liking Mirancina 😭 Back in the day on this platform you'd get threats for not liking Ethan/Alcina...but Miranda ships were claimed to be problematic (whether for "family" reasons or her personality)

Oh girrrrrrrl (gender neutral) I was around for ALL of that on le twitter when the game came out. People demonizing anyone who shipped the lords with each other and/or Miranda because they were "family" were as wild as the folks who were yelling Lady D could be straight lmao. It was a TIME (derogatory).

Meanwhile me and my friends: we're gonna make the nasty ladies kiss teehee 🥰

Never bothered me that people blocked me for a ship; I'm all for blocking things you don't want to see! If anything it was funny because a friend would send me an art or fic post and I'd click on it all excited... only to find out I'm blocked. OOPS GUESS THAT USER DIDN'T LIKE MY MIRANCINA ART OH WELL 😂

[quitekingly]

Edelgard is very cool despite being so wrong 😭🙏

[midgardianqueenreturns]

Let’s be honest, saying “Engage is bad because it does not have 3H level discourse” does Three Houses a HUGE disservice.

[druvs-tavern-of-tea-and-books]

do you guys ever feel the pain of having a headcanon you like, but then you look into the origin and it turns out it started as toxic shipping discourse for a ship you are just okay with. So now you either feel like you have to drop the headcanon or put a massive sticker on your profile going "I DO NOT ASSOCIATE MYSELF WITH 2019-2021 FE3H SHIPPING DISCOURSE! I CAN NOT REMEMBER THAT DISCOURSE. I JUST THINKT THE HEADCANON IS SILLY"

[pinkypastal]

Me when I think I found a cool meta post but it just ends up being top 5 reasons this character I doint like is a terrible person and you should feel bad for likeing them

[danzafila]

#3h #Honestly liking edelgard for women's wrongs reasons is my curse #Oh yeah I love fucked up fire emblem women! Wow a girl character who's a fascist this is so rate! #Oh... Oh you think she's a communist revolutionary... #Oh...

PREV TAGS PREV TAGS PREV TAGS!!!

Only related to a post I saw but it IS wild that

Things that Dimitri Fire Emblem can rightfully be criticized for:

Using excessive violence against his enemies

Dedicating a massive amount of his life to revenge

Actively seeking death when he’s made promises he needs to be alive to keep

Leading people who loved and were loyal to him on what is essentially a suicide mission

Being a dick to people trying to help him

(All of which are acknowledged by the story and he changes)

Things Dimitri gets criticized for:

Defending his home country against imperialism

Some bullshit “status quo” argument

Being mentally ill

[real-fire-emblem-takes]

Not only do I agree with the anon who pointed out the privileged treatment Sylvain gets in the fandom vs. Niles (btw Niles is superior as a character), I’d also argue Askr is more fuckable than Sylvain.

.

[diaphin93]

The worst is that those Edelgard haters are bigoted ( misogyny is a very important part of it, but there's also so much casual racism, ableism and queerphobia, but I'm sure you've seen this better than I did :/ ) but they often believe themselves to not be, and so many of them try to make them like they're actually the one fighting bigotry.

For example, Edelgard has the biggest queer fanbase out of all the house leader and appear outside of the fire emblem fandom in sapphic online space ( hell she even had an irl drag performance ). But they can't really acknowledge that, because that would make them look bad.

So they pretend that actually the huge majority of Edelgard fan are straight men... But to pretend that, they have to play with reality. Edeleth is getting reposted really often in yuri reddit community ? That's because those community are actually all straight men fetishizing wlw. Edelgard is the only canonical bi lord? That's because they wanted to attract those straight men fetishizing wlw, so it's actually terrible male-gazey represention. Edelgard fanfiction are by the HUGE majority written by sapphic women? They'll conveniently only attack the one man that got his F!Edeleth fanfic popular. That guy actually has mostly sapphic and often trans reader? They don't mention it. He often talk about his own queer headcanon or analysis himself? They'll make shitty post on how those hcs or analysis are actually queerphobic.

And that's the same for sexism, racism and ableism. Edelgard is a character made for white straight men, so she's bad for minorities despite her own traits diverging from the norm: she's an acceptable target when you pretend to be against bigotry. Her fans are all white straight men, so they're acceptable target when you pretend to be against bigotry. ( And funnily enough, they never acknowledge when a non-negligible part of the fandom they're in, like Dimitri and Rhea, are full of straight white men )

But that's the problem, the huge logical issues they try so hard to bury, is that we're not actually white straight men. It's so alienating to have them talk about the bad white straight fans of Edelgard, while at the interacting with people like us. Like, did any of your detractors even ever genuinely acknowledged when you, a woman, accused them of incel like behavior without immediately scoffing at the accusation? Did they ever acknowledge that uncomfortable place of minorities in the Edelgard discourse, like they do so often with Rhea or Dimitri to portray themselves as fighter against bigotry?

They erase minorities in the fandom, but they pretend to fight for them.

And the worst is that they don't even really fight against bigotry in the fandom at all. There's so many racist, queerphobe, ableist, misogynist in part of the fandom like the Blue Lions. Hell some of them are very openly conservative or far-right! But they'll never attack those.

Even in the Edelgard community, where we do have small group of vocal straight white bigoted men like in Reddit... They don't actually do anything to them! Those guys are often just as busy fighting F!Edeleth and sapphic women in the community as they are engaged in the discourse. And the Edelgard haters, well, they don't like F!Edeleth and honestly they don't like sapphic women who like Edelgard either, so they have no interest in fighting them. Because they don't actually care about bigotry, they just want to shit on the character they dislike, not so rarely for bigoted reason on their own.

Hey, thanks for the message and sorry that I'm replying so late, started to write this up and then got distracted alot. And I feel you. I think many aspects of this whole Edelgard discourse and fandom Drama surrounding it are very symptomatic with issues in fandom in general, that can often be very hostile towards lesbians and sapphics in particular, due to the strong androcentrism that is visible across Fandoms. I think FE3H in this way represents somewhat of a microcosm of Fandom in on itself, due to the fact that Edelgard early on established herself as a fav of Sapphic and Yuri-centric communities inside Fandom, her most favored ships being w/w with m/w ships always being somewhat of a niche.

Like, Edelgards strong presence in the fandom as well as the preference of sapphic relationships surrounding her is quite an anomaly inside fandom which isn't very often seen and in my opinion the result of a perfect storm. I think what partially plays into it is probably t he way 3 Houses is structured, with the eponymous 3 Houses front and center and a chose your own Lord approach, which creats very much a faction system with this game and with it, encourages the development of communities centered around supporting their chosen Lord and House inside the broader fandom of 3 Houses. And the Black Eagles are just perfectly set up to draw out a strong sapphic and yuri fanbase for itself. There is naturally Edelgard as the central female Lord of the game herself, but I think what cemented it is having Dorothea next to her. Both of them are not only part of the, sadly rather small, cast of confirmed and unambigiously canonical queer characters with the ability to marry either Byleth, they also are themselves written in a way that would naturally draw sapphic audiences. Edelgard alone already fits right into typical tastes of both sapphic audiences and the more decicated fandom, being a canonically queer woman who serves as the central protagonist of her playable route and not only subverts traditional writing with her dominant, brunt and guarded personality, but also acts as a morally nuanced character with motivations strongly centered around the revolution against an oppressive religious institution and a heavy hitting backstory centered around themes of loss of abuse, loss of bodily autonomy and societal vilification. It doesn't hurt that her initial students uniform also strongly invokes an association to Utena if you look at her, even if it may happen unconsciously, who stands as one of the definitive icons of queer women and sapphic centric story telling inside japanese media. Her role is also close to the villainess genre, which is highly centered around a critical lense on the way female character usually are vilified and reclaiming them as empowered feminist symbols, often through the heroine subverting the predetermined narrative that sets them up against each other and chosing female solidarity and companionship with the villainess, which is basically the plot of the Black Eagles Route. The Narrative tries you to force siding against Edelgard and only through claiming authority and deepening their bond to Edelgard, can they defy it and side with her. With Dorothea, we probably have the most feminist character in the history of Fire Emblem, whose themes center highly around objectification and misogyny she faced in what hs implicitely a clearly patriachal society.

Both of them also have strong supports with the other two female members of the Black Eagles, whose personal themes go deep into patriachal abuse, misogyny and anxiety as well as xenophobia, imperialism and the loss of autonomy, both on a personal and national level. Them having these strong bonds with other women, but also female characters outside the Black Eagles, like Edelgard with Lysithea and Dorothea through their shared Paralogie with Ingrid, even if the laters support line is sadly cut short, creats an in short ideal set up a strong w/w centric community around the Black Eagles. With the Black Lions, with its extreme androcentrism, focus on male bonds and traditional Bishonen Design, drawing the traditional Yaoi but also het crowd, we have also a male supporting class who have strong queer subtext with each other, while also drawing in more non-conventional m/m shippers. Especially Ferdibert, due to Huberts more striking non-Bishonen features.

Sorry for the deranged long tangent and going so much offtopic, but I think it was interesting to go a bit into the factors that in my opinion lead to Edelgard and the Black Eagles having an by far above average w/w representation and appeal against the typical trend we see in more general non-female or sapphic centered media. And honestly, I think this is part of where the hatred comes from, because Edelgard and the Black Eagles just tick every box, but in a game that also features your typical straight white heterosexual with yaoi-bait possible Protagonist that draws Fandom attention, to which she stands in opposition. So it invokes hostility and ire, because it ultimately reveals the very centrist to conservative milktoast comforts of Fandoms that try to present themselves as bastions of progressive values and queer representation, when alot of m/m is less than an authentic representation of queerness and most often written around the comfort and gratification of a mostly cishet and in the case of western fandom also very white audience (look at how for example the m/m fandom on the Blue Lions side shuns Dimidue in favor of Dimilix, despite a much more tender relationship that can be read as romantic by the former). So they need to recontextualize Edelgard and her Fandom as actually not queer, as rightwing and reactionary but also engaging in the tactic of it being at one hand oppressively powerful and hostile but on the other hand also a niche delusional group that misreads the entire story. It is all to justify their own more conservative or centrist comfort zones and androcentrism, against a queer feminist Icon.

Though I think especially on Tumblr, what also goes into it is this need to recontextualize fandom into activism. We see this alot with m/m fandoms for example, where, what is male on male stories written not for a queer audience but for cishetero female consumption first and foremost, is treated as the forefront of gay activism. I mean, we saw it with the whole SuleMio vs Destiel Drama here, didn't we? Where bitter Destiel fans expressed the view that their Supernatural ship was actually a major influence in the push for queer representation and acceptance, up to claiming yuri gundam from japan owes everything to some male-centered buffy rip-off that featured less explicit queer representation than its predecessor did at the turn of the millenium. In 3 Houses, we also see this as treating opposition to Edelgard as some form of activism, framing her goals as imperialist or outright colonialist in nature and making the divine whiter than white dragon people who are the immortal progeny of a dragon goddess into a representation of every real marginalized ethnic group on earth...in a game that eschews racial allegories in favor of actually depicting xenophobia, colonialism and genocide against human PoC characters. Many of these arguments actually reveal how Edelgards detractors are basically just performative progressive activists focussing their advocacy on wars against fictional european-inspired powers inside a game, while also clearly just repeating leftist words that they picked up without an understanding of their contemporary political context. Again offtopic, but using terms such as imperialism in its contemporary political context or even worse, colonialism, for wars of conquest and ideals between fictional nations inspired by medieval european kingdoms and empires is asinine.

As you also hinted at Captain Flash, I think there is also a hugh double standart towards male yuri fans which bothers me. First off is blanked hostility and accusations of fetishization towards these groups always linked by transphobic collateral, due to how many closeted sapphic transfems first explore their identity and sexuality through the safe confines of w/w fiction and especially Yuri and this kind of rhetoric will inevitably damage eggs. Secondly is it hypocritical as it often comes from white cisheterosexual women who center their media consumption around the blatant objectification and fetishization of male queerness, with the Yaoi Genre having a shit ton of homophobic, heteronormative, misogynist and transphobic baggage. It also shows a clear lack of knowledge and insight into the culture surrounding Yuri in general, with these kinds of detractors usually projecting issues inside the yaoi community onto yuri. Yuri, as a genre, just never had a split between male and female creators that queer male japanese fiction had, which was traditionally seperated into the female dominated yaoi and the male lead bara or gay comics genre. Sapphic women were always a driving presence both as creators and consumers of the Yuri genre and are very well capable of policing fandoms against fetishizing misogynistic influences. It doesn't even fit into consumption trends, gooners, to name them very bluntly, don't engage with fanfiction, yuri asa broader yuri or shipping discourse, they are much more pragmatic in getting off and just straight up jump into porn.

I think its especially nefarious if we look at the queer community surrounding Edelgard. I mean, Monica at this point could be a transbian icon, because I have seen so many trans women strongly identify with her and build their fandom identity around her, because they can immerse themselves so deeply into her love and appreciation for Edelgard due to her being such an important comfort character for them. Edelgards most passionate fans are often also among the most vulnerable people inside this fandom, who feel inspired and comforted by her. Hell, even Captain Flash, who is often heavily slandered by Edelcritical crowds for the crime of writing a f!Edeleth fanfic often expressed in his authors notes how important and comforting Edelgard is to him, due to his own history of trauma and health issues.

Though I will also say, I'm against the idea of pushing the entire Blue Lions Fandom under the Bus and villify all of them. And even if I did just write some accusatory shit against Yaoi Fans, there is no understatement that in this case I talk about problematic trends I noticed inside the broader fandom discourse as well as the subsection of Yaoi Fans who engage over and over again in hostility against lesbians. At this point, I don't really think the people you complain about, which bother me alot myself, are really a majority of Blue Lions and Dimitri Fans, they are just very loud, pushy and aggressive and are good in talking as if they have any authority (look for example at this asshole who goes into his large somewhat orientalist and overall just stretching interpretations of the games supposedly deep buddhist themes and characterizes Edelgard as some evil seductress due to his own misogyny and media illiteracy). We shouldn't forget that Dimitri for many is just as much of a comfort character and inspiration as Edelgard is for her fans, due to his themes of trauma, mental illness, redemption and forgiveness which resonate strongly with them and their lived situation. I also think the very loud edelcrit community really worked towards poisening the waters and radicalize discourse, but overall I would personally assume that the majority of Dimitri Fans can understand and appreciate Edelgard as what she is in the confines of his route, a well-intentioned antagonist who in their point of view goies to far in her ambitions and whose ideals are irreconcilable with Dimitris. Which is true from the point of view AM operates on, just as Dimitri for an Edelgard Fan represents a good man who has fallen victim to the System and its manipulators Edelgard fights against. Theirs is a conflict of opposing ideals and perspective and I would say its where the game manages to execute its themes of connections and outreach as well as differing perspectives the best. Like, normal Blue Lions Fans ultimately agree with what Edelgard wants to archieve, because their reading is that Dimitri wants to archieve the same, they personally prefer his approach and road towards that goal. I think this is a point where people should be able to have fun with heated discussions but ultimately agree to disagree, its a very subjective matter ultimately.

Actually, I would say the worst detractors and most toxic individuals of the community are probably the church of seiros fans and the "Rhea did nothing wrong" crowd. Like, they can be among Dimitri, Claude or Rhea Fans, but those are usually those who try to force their own rather reactionary interpretations onto the community and engage often in rather racist, religious apologetics and pro-eugenics as well as pro-feudalism talking points and have this weird disdain for humans and human autonomy & liberation, as if they really immerse themselves mostly into the fantasy of being from some superior race, lol. Most of them have rather twisted and messed up interpretations of the world and the story which they are adamant about and usually they build their interpretation of the game around what they want it to be, namely being very pro-theocracy, anti-liberation and espousing the idea that humans need divine immortal beings to lead them, as well as often also being super Pro-Crest. I mean, one of the most infamous Edelcrit Fanfics is basically just full on pro-theocracy, pro-feudalism and pro-eugenics. Usually they have a strong hate boner against Hopes because it really ruins their personal headcanons of what the game is, lol. And I think many of them seem to have strongly jumped to the Engage bandwagon, which is closer to what they want out of 3 Houses, playing the idea of a divine dragon ruler straight and justified feudal bloodlines straight.

But yeah, I think I went into quite a few tangents here, I hope it doesn't bother you. If you have any more asks you can hit me up. Ultimately, I call them out when they engage in Incel and Misogynist behavior and otherwise just clown on these trolls. Its also just sad in a way, because its clear, that they constructed this idea of what they think the game is in their heads and everything that came out after te initial release of the game contradicts it.

[tea-cat-arts]

"Jiang Cheng critical," "Jiang Cheng bashing," and "Jiang Cheng discourse" are also all acceptable tags

But ya- the "canon Jiang Cheng" tag is obnoxious as hell and even mxtx herself doesn't agree that he's morally reprehensible/ beyond redemption, so fuck off with this "canon" nonsense

(Screenshots from her 2016 interview about mdzs's first draft)

The Elmo meme that one JC anti made is particularly annoying because canon Jiang Cheng doesn't mean anti Jiang Cheng. Fans and antis alike can, in theory, use the tag to discuss whatever canon traits about him and offer their own interpretations on the character. Nobody ever comes out with the same interpretation when reading a book, so no one is ever going to fully agree on what's truly canon unless MXTX herself confirms it to be so.

If JC antis truly want to discuss Jiang Cheng without starting discourse, they should keep it in the Anti Jiang Cheng tag. Thats the correct tag for them. You won't find us there.

JC antis knew what they were doing when they created the Canon Jiang Cheng tag. They are trying to say that their word is gospel, that their interpretations and opinions on the character holds precedent over ours, and I won't stand for it. Their opinions should be challenged just as much as ours are.

The only thing I can conclude from this tag is that JC antis have got to be the most haughty, spiteful fans going. They made that tag to insult and antagonise us and play victim when we call them out and rightfully criticise them for it. It is very disingenuous of them to act innocent and passive aggressive in their rebuttal posts. They know what they're doing.

Also, Halenhusky is a bully and even admits to it. I've seen them attack JC fans and proudly proclaim that they hate us with a passion and condone the bullying we endure. So yeah. Truly a morally upright person whom WWX himself would endorse! (Sarcasm)

(Also, this is the post I'm referring to, in case anyone was wondering 😂)

(Remember, don't send hate to the person in the screenshot. We don't stoop to their level. Just block this person. This post is to just make people aware of the gaslighting tactics these antis use, and I'm getting sick of it.)

[tea-cat-arts]

Hi, two other people that are in both the scum villain and fe3h fandoms-

Imagine if Shen Yuan was set loose in the fe3h discourse. Bro would've died from an aneurysm before the corn chip could get him

[hollow-lime-green]

Different anon than other top/bottom anon! I know that t/b dynamics in fandom are Serious Business, but I'm pretty new to the shipping side of things and don't really understand why people are so incredibly intense about it. Like I get that it's a characterization thing sometimes, but I don't understand why if you like the characterization up until a sex scene, that it would make you not like the fic I guess? Zero judgement here, just curiosity!

yeah, so i think the easy (and correct) answer here is just immaturity. when your life is smaller and less rich, you care more about the few things you have in it. in general i think that's pretty common when you're young, and everything feels like the end of the world, but you're not even like, paying rent lmao.

but i will speculate a little here on maybe some other things (fandom meta, devil's advocate) under the cut, 'cause why not?

on ships -

from what i have seen, which is from the lens of someone whose fandom experience is almost entirely ship fandom and not gen, i think that ship fandom in general tends to be more toxic. this is especially so with big ships where there is a lot of content. in rarepair spaces, i think people generally tend to be nicer and more appreciative of any content for their ship. even if they don't like it, you don't shit where you eat. in big ships like stsg, well, there's a lot more room to shit.

in FE3H fandom, i was mostly into rarepairs, even ultra rarepairs at times. most everyone i interacted with was lovely and open-minded, and encouraged all kinds of content for their little ship. but from everything i heard about the Big Ship (Sylvix), those motherfuckers were fighting for their LIVES. although i don't think there was a ton of t/b discourse, mostly just clique-y shit and interpersonal wank. but when you have interpersonal wank, it's pretty common for people to find some extremely contrived fake moral reason to justify simply disliking someone and wanting to attack them. so who knows.

also, last note on ships - i would strongly suspect that multishippers are more normal about things in general. single-ship culture very very often leads to us vs. them conflicts because there is a 'loss' when content is made that is not on your 'side'. if you multiship and win either way, you can be a lot happier in fandom lol. i'm not making an ethical judgement on multiship vs single-ship btw, but in terms of like, economic value, if you can multiship, you'll objectively you'll get more bang for your buck.

why do people get so invested?

this could be because a lot of us in ship fandom are writing and reading ship fic to explore our own feelings, or experience them vicariously through characters (consciously or subconsciously). my best friend and i have extreeeeemely different taste in books. i go for very characterized, intimate pov books, and she tends to prefer a more distant narrator and writing style. unsurprisingly, the vast majority of her fandom experience is in gen fandom, whereas for me it's almost all ship.

if you personalize your media to yourself in this way, maybe it's a little easier to get invested? i'm not sure though, because there's probably nothing that could get me to leave a hate comment on a fic/send hatemail to an author. i can't even get the energy to leave comments on fics i love sometimes (this is a bad i am bad i am trying to be better). i can't relate to people who don't automatically follow don't like, don't read.

ALSO i want to note again that so, so many people want so badly to get fucked by anime man gojo satoru. i think they see him taking dick as a blow to the masculinity they are attracted to and therefore may twist it into an attack on their attraction. this is just speculation but, idk, it's something i think about. obligatory 'toxic masculinity hurts us all' and 'fellas you need to kiss the homies goodnight'

one more thing -

you said something interesting here that i want to touch on, anon:

"but I don't understand why if you like the characterization up until a sex scene, that it would make you not like the fic I guess?"

without making a value judgement on this behavior (hating a fic once you get to the sex scene), i want to play a little devil's advocate here and talk about characterization in fics in and out of sex scenes. so here's my thesis statement:

sex is really really really fucking hard to write well

smut quality is incredibly subjective to begin with, because everyone has different tastes. this is true of real porn too, of course! in smut, there's so many things that can be a turnoff - specific terms (cunt vs pussy (afab terms are a whole other can of worms) or dick/cock vs his embiggened turgid needlessly hard rod (which is my preference, of course)). bad choreo can be a deal breaker - unrealistic or inconsistent twister-style maneuvering. and then, of course, there's dialogue. we all know the porn moans. well, fanfic can fall prey to the porn moaning of it all.

so it is indeed true that you can like the characterization of a fic up until your boy starts porn moaning, and suddenly your complex tsundere is saying 'omg put it iiiiiiiiiiiin'. so, yes, i understand how seeing bad sex can make you sour on a fic. now, is that fair? maybe? there's a lot of bad fanfic and bad smut out there, because most of us have to write bad shit before we can write good shit. however the inevitability of that does not mean that people have to like bad smut. (still literally never worth sending hate over, obviously)

this doesn't cover all scenarios of someone changing their mind on a fic when they get to the t/b, but i think it is probably a hidden factor in a good amount of it. seeing a character start acting/talking differently and attributing it to t/b rather than clunky smut dialogue could be part of this whole general "ew I don't like this dynamic" thing.

maybe i would compare it to omegaverse, where characters in heat/rut just... become different characters in some fics. it's sort of a whiplash. but unlike omegaverse where you go in expecting that, on regular fics, people don't tend to tag "i don't know how to write smut dialogue". it can certainly be immersion breaking. for a longfic, if i like it, i might just skim through bad sex. but if sex is front and center in the fic, then i'd probably just click off (and again, oh my god i would never send hate about dick in ass)

i will be answering your other ask, anon. i have lots of thoughts, and they do verge back into meta discourse lol. because of the nature of the topic, i'll have to screen them to make sure i'm happy with how i am communicating those thoughts. :)

[problematic-fodlan]

I hate it when people are really mean about Dimitri. Lately I keep seeing more mean comments or crude jokes about him. I wish I could find a way to block all the snide remarks about him but it feels more pervasive in the fandom.

I realize how melodramatic this sounds but this silly game and my blonde blorbo are the only good thing I have going on in my life between my shitty job, shitty health and family drama. FE3H fandom used to be a fun escape for me, but it sucks that I go on blogs that seem like they would be Blue Lions friendly like a Sylvix account or an account that will retweet Dimidue art, yet they constantly poke fun or disparage Dimitri (and only him). It honestly makes me miss the discourse days because at least the Dimitri hate was more blatant and easy to block.

There's characters I don't like, but I just ignore them. I wish others could do the same.

-

[ferditheas]

Even though I started playing FE3H at launch, I didn't get actively involved in the fandom until January of this year. And a part of me regrets that. It seems like in the early days of the fandom, there was a lot of really great community building. I see discord servers referenced, and a part of me thinks "dang, I wish I was there".

And then I remember how I engaged with media back in 2019-2020, and I think it's probably for the best I didn't. With all the love in the world to my past self, I was kind of insufferable back then. And I'm pretty sure The Discourse being more active back then would not have helped me.