#fc6 dlc spoilers

[lulu2992]

Hi! I had a question. In multiple audios and even in game, there’s a pattern that John is fixated on pain and even women’s pain (Joey, Mary May, and the young woman he mentioned in the collapse that he killed after a night out because of anger) and even he was being a big creep when Mary May saw him for the first time (she was 16-17 wasn’t she), “eyeing her like a piece of meat”. If you can believe the ages given to us, he’s clearly much older than Mary May, and the cults been there for 9-10 years, she’d have to be minor.

My question is, why do you think the fandom and people dismiss his violent urges toward women and he was fixated on minor but still demonize Joseph when John was clearly unhinged on his own?

Sorry if its all wordy and all over the place, I just love your takes and respect your thoughts!

Hi! And thank you very much for your appreciation :)

We know John has a fixation with pain because of the “freeing” experience he explains he had when he was young, and he hurts people for this reason, but I really don’t think he enjoys inflicting it on women specifically. It’s probably a coincidence that Hudson is a woman and was sent to him instead of Jacob or Faith. The game never suggests that he would have treated Pratt or Burke differently if they had been placed in his “care” instead.

Someone in Far Cry 5 says John is “obsessed with the people in Fall’s End, and with Mary May in particular”, but nothing clearly indicates it’s because she’s a woman. The way I see it, it’s because the Resistance is strong in Fall’s End and Mary May is one of its “three biggest pillars”, as John himself wrote. Evidence shows he’s also “obsessed” with Jerome and Nick for the same reason: they keep resisting and fighting back. Mary May is stubborn, refuses to sell her business to Eden’s Gate, continues to serve alcohol, and essentially keeps saying “no” to John, so I think that explains why he has taken an interest in her. By the way, during the Deputy’s Atonement, even though Mary May is there, John mostly focuses on hurting Nick and Jerome instead, so it doesn’t look like he prefers torturing women to me.

And we’re not sure how old Mary May is, actually. The only official age we have for her is revealed in Far Cry Absolution: 30 years old. I know the Wiki says she was born in 1993 (so 25 years old in 2018) but I think that sounds young… For what it’s worth, Tasya Teles, who played Mary May in Far Cry 5, was born in 1985. And in the novel, John is said to be about 40, which makes much more sense, mathematically speaking, than his age on the Wiki (32 years old). When the Deputy arrives in Hope County, Eden’s Gate has been there for at least 9 years (since August 2009), so if John visited the Spread Eagle in 2009 and the age provided in Absolution is accurate, Mary May was about 21 at the time.

As for the woman John supposedly murdered before Joseph found him… like every new piece of information “revealed” in the Far Cry 6 Season Pass, I think it should be taken with a huge grain of salt. The incident was never mentioned anywhere else before, and while there’s no denying that John is capable of violence and murder, I don’t think him losing control and killing someone while he was working as a lawyer makes sense. According to The Book of Joseph, John Duncan’s anger was strong but it was also “suppressed”, so I doubt he would have physically assaulted anyone at that time. He was “full of rage” but apparently never let it out when he was still “society’s very model of success”.

So I don’t think the fandom ignores that John enjoys making women suffer, thought 16-year-old Mary May looked sexy, and murdered one of his lovers out of anger because these “facts” are all conjectures in the first place! If many people never mention those things about him, I think it’s simply because they know they’re not really canon and mostly come from the fan-created Wiki (which was also used as a source of information by Collapse’s writers). It’s undeniably canon that John is violent and obsessed with pain, but it’s not that he likes to inflict it on women specifically or that he committed murder as John Duncan, and Mary May being only 25 was never officially confirmed, either…

It’s true, however, that people tend to demonize Joseph more than his siblings and blame him for the bad things they do. He’s not innocent, of course, but John, Jacob, and Faith already had a lot of personal issues before they became his Heralds, and I disagree with those who say that they would have been better off without him. Things would have been different, yes, and maybe the cult wouldn’t have existed, but I don’t think their lives would have been better. In my opinion, they would all just have died sooner (and in poorer mental health)… In John’s case, considering he was on a self-destructive path and desperately trying to fill the void inside him, I believe he would have let “John Duncan” consume him completely and ended up drowning in his excesses.

So I agree with you when you say that John already was “unhinged on his own”, in a way, and that Joseph is often blamed for everything, even what he didn’t do. However, I wouldn’t say that the fandom dismisses the other things you mentioned because they’re not facts, just fan theories and interpretations not everybody likes or agrees with.

[general-kalani]

HELLO JOSEPH I DIDN'T KNOW YOU STRUGGLED WITH VANITY---

literally a line in the FC6 DLC:

"Vanity... A sin I have tried to reject"

LIKE I CANNOT IGNORE THIS CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TALK TO ME ABOUT THIS OH MY G O D-

(This line pops up when you go afk in a safehouse or at least it popped up while I was doing smth on phone while I was in a safehouse)

[lulu2992]

Well, they made it confusing because the nuclear ending simultaneously still is the canonical ending of Far Cry 5… and not a canonical event in Far Cry 6. So yeah, it’s kind of a “haha no that didn’t happen explanation”.

When someone asked about that during an “AMA” on Reddit, the Narrative Director and Lead Writer of Far Cry 6, Navid Khavari, explained:

We tried to approach this with the idea that each Far Cry has its own stories and world. While there are some loose connections between the games we wanted to focus on the story of Yara and its revolution, set in the present day, with Dani and Libertad fighting Anton’s regime.

And he said the same thing in this video. To me, that basically means, “We realized that if we wanted to make more games set in the present day, we had to pretend the Collapse never happened”, so they decided the games weren’t connected anymore. They’re set in different timelines; in parallel universes, if you will.

I don’t blame them for coming up with this solution because the world canonically ending at the end of Far Cry 5 was a huge issue to work around, but now fans are (understandably) confused…

You know I'm not really sure how far cry 6 handled the fc5 ending, did they say there was a nuclear explosion or was that just a haha no that didn't happen explanation? Did they change the 'canon' ending to walk away? Or is a section of montana just nuclear wasteland? im pretty sure they said new dawn was non-canon and that makes sense but what really happened at the end of far cry 5? Some one please tell me

[teronsrickman]

Again I draw how father and son are hugging, but this time the father does not have a gun behind his back, THANK YOU (a reference to the fact that I drew a moment from the ending of FarCry6)

Before the spoilers I will write a "SPOILER", before that the text without spoilers

AAAAAAAAA I.. I have already spammed the entire offtop in VK and Twitter with emotions! I've never cried over a game so much in my life. Even over the last part of GoW, even over those games that I also immensely love. But the most important thing is that I have never cried SO much with happiness in my life. Not from grief, not from pain or fear. But from happiness and love. I've never experienced anything like this so much. My great respect to Santa Monica Studio.

Usually, when I like the game so much, I roll up a write of pages of criticism, (yes, you saw how I reviewed FarCry6 and the DLC for it), but here I surprisingly have nothing to say. With the exception of comments about the overload and prolongation of the game by events and too frequent monotonous battles. But these are just remarks, and not so weighty disadvantages that I drop the game. We have already joked with friends about some similar parallels between GoW and FC6, from dictatorship and uprisings, to character relationships, and agreed that GoW is an example of how it was necessary to build emotional cutscenes and the plot as a whole in FC6. Ubisoft, please learn. And of course it's a pity for the cut-out content with Sinmara. Thanks to her, Atreus could again evoke controversial feelings, show himself from an interesting side, and Kratos' words about the heart would play stronger. It would be possible to shorten any quests like collecting pear or going for the moon and thanks to this dont cut-out Sinmara, but we have what we have. After all, GoW is one of the most powerful, in my opinion, in terms of the concept and its artistic interpretation, the game. Scandinavian mythology is a very popular topic, but the way developers adapt it, intertwine the plot and gameplay, make incredible designs and environments, bright characters is priceless in the gaming industry.

And that's all I could say about criticism. And if I start to remember and look for all the little things, including replicas that I liked so much, then I really will roll 20 pages again, but I don't need it... So if you want to see how I yelled from certain points, they are in the twitter @TeronsCock and maybe I will still draw something. Moreover, I am already bursting with headcannons as I returned to Midgard 4 years later, not without the help of Heath or Tobeas, as always, and again went all this way and emotions with characters that I already missed from the last time. Well, this time my friends are with me, who can even nullify Kratos' patience :)

SPOILER NEXT

Another note - I've also never cried in my life from the fact that the character just stayed alive I had previously jumped with happiness and screamed like hell when Vaas turned out to be alive, when Pagan did not die in the end. But that's exactly CRYING so hard, this is the first time.. Literally since 2018, I've been waiting for Kratos to die, all the characters have been waiting and afraid, and we're with them, and in the end I'm just.... AAAAAAA I haven't seen such a happy ending even in a Disney movie ..... I just love these characters and the game

[thepowerofyes]

you guys ever play the FC6 Collapse DLC ? Spoilers ahead

"Don't you get it ? You're gonna be taken away, you won't have brothers anymore !"

"What ? No ! No ! I was just trying to make him stop ! I just wanted him to stop !"

THATS A CONVERSATION (paraphrased cause I can't remember things) BETWEEN JOSEPH AND BABY JOHN I'M GONNA KICK A BOULDER WITH FLIPFLOPS ON

John did not deserve this shit bruh he just needed some love and everybody took advantage of him to the point where he doesn't even have an IDEA on how to be a normal person anymore

Been crying over this for a while now because JOHN WAS JUST TRYING TO HELP BECAUSE THE CONTEXT IS THAT HE TOLD HIS TEACHERS THAT THEIR DAD WAS BEATING THEM AND JOSEPH SAID THEY WERE GONNA BE SEPERATED BECAUSE OF IT ?? BRO ?? Ubisoft really gave a big "FUCK YOU" to the Seed Family huh

[ominous1ty]

FC6's Joseph: Collapse DLC Secret Ending

A lot of heartbreaking scenes happen within this DLC. This secret ending gives us a glimpse of what Joseph’s life was like before the death of his wife, Faith. 

[closecry]

Pastor Jerome, at church in front of his congregation: haha hey guys! I thought this would be nice :) I invited a new person to come and speak, his name is Joseph and he has told me all about how he loves God :) so! here he is guys!! I think this will be fun :)

Joseph, the minute that he gets his chance to speak: THE END IS N E A R. GOD HAS CALLED FOR THE END OF THE WORLD AND HE WHISPERED IN MY EAR THE PROPHE-

Pastor Jerome: WAIT WAIT WAIT YOU CAN'T JUST-

[sharkys-disco-stick]

HAS THIS 😭😭 BEEN DONE YET 😭😭 OR

😭😭😭😭😭

[caseum]

had to get a dramatic pic of the most problematic bunch of siblings

[returnofdedsec]

Far cry 5 dlc like you have done everything that i have wanted. Joseph having to face the things hes done. His predatory relationship with his followers and family. And i was surprised at just how BIG a part of his story faith was like damn !!!!!!!!!!!!! And then they added in jerome and i was like !!!!!!! OK !!!!!! OK UBISOFT I GET IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[godswrcth]

josiah getting ready to blow that joseph statue up again:

[lulu2992]

You’re welcome!! Thank you too for your message and your appreciation! :D

I had never seen the original storyboard for room 1991, so thanks for the link! I too believe the vision isn’t just a memory and represents Vaas killing people for Citra in general, not Jason specifically. When I rewatched the cutscene after reading your ask, it was how I interpreted it as well, and the storyboard supports this theory!

The DLC’s main scriptwriter confirmed in this video that we can’t trust everything we see in Insanity. After explaining Vaas’ “darkness” comes from the fact he “failed” to become Citra’s warrior (which is an interpretation I disagree with, but it helps understand the DLC), she says:

Something that’s great about Vaas is that he’s an unreliable narrator. You never really know if what you’re seeing is actually what happened or if he’s twisting it as he remembers it. You’ll see scenes and you really have to ask yourself what’s real and what isn’t.

To me, the vision in room 1991 is a combination of Vaas’ past actions, present feelings, and fantasized future.

We don’t know how old the siblings are or who’s the oldest, but I imagined they were both around 30 too. That said, maybe they’re indeed almost 40 because it’s not that old, after all! Now, if they were children/teens in 1991, it’s interesting they look like adults in the vision. They made child versions of the characters too, so the fact they used the adult models would support the theory that the scene is mostly symbolical. I wouldn’t be surprised if Vaas had had to start killing people when he was still a child either...

In any case, maybe the year 1991 is important to him because it was indeed the first time he witnessed such a ceremony and/or murdered someone for his sister. If a ceremony was held in 1991, I assume it was either actually performed by Citra (and she’s just older than we thought), or it wasn’t but she’s the person he imagines anyway because, as the current Rakyat leader, she’s now in charge of those ceremonies. She’s also someone he wants to impress and who’s always on his mind.

To me, he murders Jason multiple times because, like Citra, he haunts him. While Vaas killed many people to gain his sister’s approval, he now views Jason as the sole obstacle between them, the only target he must eliminate to fix his “mistake” and finally become the Ultimate Warrior. The murders he committed in the past and the one he fantasizes about are all mixed together in the “Room 1991” vision.

He also “sees” himself kiss Citra and apparently become her warrior at the end because it’s what he desires most... at least in the DLC (not in Far Cry 3; he actually refused “her crazy ritual”). So yes, I agree that, while the vision is probably inspired by real events, it’s still, for the most part, a fantasy!

As for why people once made him 27 years old on the Wiki, I’ve always assumed it was because it’s an “iconic” age to die. They probably thought it would be cool to make him part of the 27 Club...

Thanks again for your message! At least, it was interesting for me :)

Hello! I was wondering something. In Vaas: Insanity there are six visions that occur in the hotel, five of which happen in numbered rooms: 1991, 2003, 2006, 2007, and 2012. So I was thinking, what if those numbers correlate to a specific year? Personally I think that it's kinda confusing, because that would imply that for example, Vaas rebelled against Hoyt in 2012. What are your thoughts? Thanks for reading!

Hello! I don’t think I’d even realized the room numbers could be years, but that makes total sense! I’ve just watched a video of the mission and there are two rooms with the number 2012: the one in which we see the Pirate meeting you’re referring to, and the one in which we see Jason kill Vaas. The second event did happen in 2012 so I agree: the room numbers must be years!

Now, about the Pirates wanting to rebel against Hoyt… While it’s true there were tensions between them and the Privateers in Far Cry 3, what we see in that vision is strange to me for several reasons. Firstly, why is there another “Pirate Leader”? Wasn’t Vaas their only leader, especially in 2012? Has there ever even been another leader? Who is this guy he’s listening to as a pupil listening to a teacher?

Secondly, what he’s upset about is the fact they want to “take the land from the natives”. That’s an inherently infuriating concept, sure, but in the context of the story, why would Vaas be surprised and angry about that? He knows what he signed up for when Hoyt recruited him, he knows his boss hates the Rakyat, and I even believe he started working for him in the first place partly because he felt betrayed and wanted revenge. The way I see it, Vaas becoming Hoyt’s right hand and leading the Pirates is his ultimate “Fuck you” to Citra and, by extension, the Rakyat. He wouldn’t complain about their land being stolen.

Thirdly, in the vision, when he asks where the men are from, they all (except the “Leader” who’s just been shot in the leg) say they were born “here”. The problem is that, in Far Cry 3, the in-game description said the Pirates “came to the island”, implying they’re all foreigners. Also, they have nothing but contempt for the Rakyat and their accent is not the same, so I’m not sure why Insanity implies most of the Pirates are native Rook Islanders. As far as I know, Vaas is the only Rakyat among them.

I also think it’s a bit weird to imagine they have wives, children, and “normal” family lives... but maybe some of them do, who knows?

So, in my opinion, the idea that Vaas himself asked the Pirates to rebel, especially for the reasons cited in the DLC, doesn’t make sense. On the contrary, it was he who maintained the fragile balance of power between his men and Hoyt’s, and it was precisely when he died that the Pirates, without a leader, started attacking the Privateers to try to get control of the island. I think it would have been strange for Vaas to “start a war with Hoyt” in Far Cry 3.

That said, it seems the DLC’s writers believed Vaas felt guilty for not becoming Citra’s “Ultimate Warrior”, leaving the Rakyat, and convincing others to follow him. I don’t really agree with this interpretation (and Insanity isn’t canon to me anyway) because he chose not to complete the ritual, still clearly resents the tribe, and I don’t think other Rakyat became Pirates, but maybe that’s why the devs thought the rebellion against Hoyt was Vaas’ idea.

Also, because Vaas, Pagan, and Joseph are unreliable narrators in Insanity, Control, and Collapse, some of the “visions” they experience, for various reasons, either never happened or show a distorted version of reality, so maybe this scene isn’t a memory but a fantasy, a romanticization of his past and a way for him to “correct” it in his mind. It’s possible Vaas never actually started a war on Hoyt but (at least in the DLC) wishes he had done it.

Again, I doubt this meeting happened or even could have happened in Far Cry 3, but I suppose that’s why the scene exists in Insanity.

[aulephant]

I’m just saying that given the fact there were multiple citra and jason themed enemies in vaas’ dlc 

I cannot wait to see multiple versions of mohan running amok in pagan’s mind like a flock of rabid geese

[soncfseed]

kinda wondering if someone who worked on this joseph dlc was an evangelion fan....

third impact type beat

[serenitysought]

SPOILERS. 

it always did hurt my heart having to destroy the statue and now that we actually get to fix it? i’m happy . FIX THE STATUE . FIX MY SOUL. 

[silverapplestock]

every far cry 5 stan when the joseph dlc dropped

LETS GO BOYS