#fandoms really do make shit unenjoyable at times

[xanderjkz]

Knox Overstreet- Fixing the problem of a kind boy

I like fucking love the concept of Knox's character and the message he portrays but holy shit they really fucked up when it came to the execution. Both in the movie AND book (ESPECIALLY there). This fandom takes its time to reconstruct his character to be likeable. But how would this actually play out in a better-constructed storyline for this dude with girl problems?

Well, that's the answer I would like to answer today

Knox in the official dead poets media

Like every poet in the movie Spotlight, Knox comes from a family that's enforcing the path of a lawyer. His father is one, which is how his storyline even starts. He is invited to the Danbury's because his dad helped the only responsible and well-mannered dude in the house. And in that same scene, they literally tell us that people expect him to be a lawyer. So there's this kind of pressure.

But not really because we never get to see that side of Knox in the movies where he clearly states that he doesn't like the path people chose for him. All he has is girls problems.

Which is sad considering that he could be so much more

But then we'd have to extend the movie by about 1 hour and that would make it unenjoyable because this movie is perfect because of the pacing they chose. It's fast and yet slow and kinda counts down to Neil's suicide in a way that gets stuck. Because he is one of the main characters and most scenes should be with him. Not with Knox considering if his life expectancy is okay.

So is there any extra scenes in the book?

...yeah no

"But how do we solve this issue with knox's awful storyline?"

Rewrite the book and hope for the best.

Since I'm an author myself I know that writing often gets complicated when your creative streak is gone but since I'm an author I'd solve it this way:

Keep the Chris storyline

Let that boy be problematic, let him make mistakes but not once that deeply traumatises someone like SEXUALLY ASSULTING someone. Knox is the message bringer of the bad side of carpe Diem. Sometimes seizing the day will make things worse because you didn't think it through. That's a great message to bring across, I mean how many 16-year-olds make mistakes that we thought were okay? A lot, and he is the one who made the mistake in the story.

"So how would you change his mistake?"

The storyline reinvented

He meets Chris like usual

Look he didn't fuck up here in the slightest. I too would be stuttering if I met a beautiful girl. And him meeting her through the Danbury clearly shows the problem he has to date Chris. It's classic anyway

Cut the bike scene and use his sister instead

From what I gathered his sister goes to the same school as Chris (can be mistaken but for this story she does! ) so he uses her to kinda pry into Chris's life and find things out. It is problematic if he literally implies stalking her but c'mon, at least someone in the Overstreet family has common sense and only observes in the distance...right? Besides who doesn't use their siblings for their advantages? Plus it brings depth to that mean. Seeing how he treats his sister could indicate his behaviour with people extremely close to him.

Let him attempt the party but be extremely obnoxious

That's what he's best at

His nickname is literally knoxious. But what the hell do I mean by being obnoxious? Let that boy not leave Chris's side. Why? Because that sets up his mistake. Being attached to someone's hip can be extremely uncomfortable and with Chet's provoke able (?) ass this can go wrong fast. (Also we can't forget that Chris is the one being played around like an object in this and this should be his biggest mistake as we do not treat anyone like that, especially women!) But what would be the breaking point for CHRIS and Chet and the thing where he decides that "carpe diem" is good to use (even tho it's not)?

HE DANCES WITH CHRIS

Okay, instead of him being an ass and kissing Chris, he's an ass and dances with her. He was under the influence when he made both decisions which isn't an excuse but something that pushed him towards it. Because Knox in his most sober self wouldn't even talk properly to her.

So, some lame-ass song from the 50s is playing and he grabs her hand. Maybe she danced with someone else and he stole her. Considering that the tension between Chris and Knox is already uncomfortable, this would bring it to the maximum. Chris (as the beautiful woman she is) would try to use this moment to finally talk about his behavior so he lets her go. And the moment he finally talks chet comes in.

This small synopsis is weak but let's be honest, no one would read a whole ass script abt this.

Anyway

Chet comes in, the situation becomes way out of control and the only person getting extremely hurt is Chris. As she was toyed around by Knox and Chet. So she leaves the party prematurely (as she should, take care of yourselves) and Knox returns to Welton with the same bloody nose as in the movie

He goes directly to her house

Him doing so is a direct response to his failure. Between the party and them talking he needs to reflect on his failures and feel genuine guilt. It sucks that he can only do so once he gets punched but at least he has the mind to realise that.

But Chris isn't that easy to talk to. Obviously, this whole thing made her feel weird and sad so she avoided both of them. When he goes up to her house and gets rejected? He talks with Keating.

Mentor Keating

Not only would this solidify his last scene in the movie more but it also gives them a connection more than Keating humiliating him. Okay, but can we fit this into the movie? Not the conversation but he could easily fit it into the scene where he returns to Welton after talking to her.

"What would Keating tell him?"

The same thing he told Neil. Honesty.

Fate decides itself in the decisions you make and Knox knows that lies won't wrap her around his fingers. So maybe honesty carries them to a state where they can be friends.

So his masterplan gets made and it's the most trope-st shit you can think of.

Throwing a rock in the night at her sweet sweet window

Why did I think of this? Well, do you like the scenery of how he originally apologised and made everybody look at her?

At least it's at night so fewer people look and it would show us the skills he earned from sneaking off bc of the poet's meetings. Thus showing the audience more connection to the group. Plus at night people are mostly at their most vulnerable time and it would get Chris to talk.

But what would they talk about?

Considering that he finally saw the wrong parts of his obsession with her, he would give her the space to express her discomfort to its fullest after he of course apologises. But I think Chris wouldn't even express herself to the fullest because she has sympathy for him. She understands that loving someone can make you sick and twisted when you're a teenager but she is still her flesh and mind who clearly didn't want it to cause her relationship to break.

She might not express the worst anger that comes with something like this but she still expressed her sorrow in this mess. And Knox listens and sees the wrong in his actions. He doesn't need to justify himself because no justification could make this play in his favour. And when all is said and done, she forgives him for being so damn obnoxious.

But she doesn't like him in the way Knox wishes her to feel. And knox needs to learn to accept it. Like we all do

The story progresses without knox getting what he wants

Through this whole story he went through, we as viewers get the message that even if you apologise, it's up to the victim of your actions to give you what you want. And throughout the film, I never even got the notion that Chris has an interest in Knox. Hell, they don't even talk that much to build a conclusion on their goddamn relationship before he kissed her. He sets the message of a "Carpe Diem" gone wrong. After that, he is a reminder of us humans and our way of going through those problems you cause.

There are probably better ways of doing his arc, heck give him a different one. I mean he has potential. Maybe he's better off once the group splits or maybe he isn't.

But the way he is in the movie is a horrible portrayal of romance. I get it, the script is from the 80s but c'mon you're allowed to admit that it's bad.

Well, there's nothing we can really do, the movie in itself is an art and should be viewed as it. It fits into the zeitgeist of past generations and our present ones. I love the movie but if I had to change one storyline it would always be Knox oversteet's

Btw can be talk about how stupid his fucking name is? Who names their child Knox? With the last name OVERSTREET

[bloodied-velvet]

I really will never get the hate towards Greta.

Sure, I guess people didn’t take much to how late she came in and how a romance took place, but take that complaint to the studio and the writers.

There are characters that literally coerced others into sex, cold-blooded killers, and attempted genocide, but somehow a woman who puts her foot down is the one who annoys you. Oh and the “she’s mean to him” …mean to the man who was lashing insults unwarranted at Trevor, calling his family “mentally ill hoarders” just because he was uncomfortable in the Belmont hold that HE willingly stepped into?! (She’s not even mean… she didn’t trust him, which was understandable because the man was practically alcoholic and had dead corpses impaled in his front lawn. The village desperately needed help, her brother legit got killed in the process trying to seek it. He was the only option.)

and I’m not about to get into the topic of racism within this fandom because that plays the biggest role to a lot of y’all, whether you want to admit it or not.

Like why are you bitching at people who happens to like a harmless ship/character? You can block the words and people, you know. Blocking is a free feature.

She may not be interesting to you, but she’s not a bad character.

A lot of you need to fucking chill. I’m not trying to deal with people talking down on me cause I just enjoy a damn ship that’s not even problematic. Like this is why folks don’t like to heavily engage in fandom spaces anymore.

It’s tired.

[southconfessionpark]

I really hate how the fandom treats Butters, you all make Butters so unenjoyable and annoying, all the "hello kitty OwO smol bean",it really rubs on me the wrong way when half of Butters character is kinda about being a prick. Like honestly, his whole character is the fact he's stupid/naive, gets grounded a lot, and a complete misogynist! And when you haven't watched the show and only see fandom shit, you're gonna have a completely different view on Butters because the fandom represents him completely differently. he's not special, he's not sweet. he is 80% of the time the butt of the joke and an extreme prick. honestly why i love Eric Cartman fans, at least they realize and know their fav character is this horrible person and little shit. Butters fans, learn how to do this, you guys piss me the fuck off. (And other fans alike this, like Kyle fans, you also do this, just I hate Butters in general and have dated too many butters fans.) Yap over 🙏

[silenthillprincess]

big rant but who cares if all someone talks about when they talk about PD is cannibalism? who cares? i dont. doesn’t affect me. if it affects you block ‘em queen it’s your phone but everyone being angry all the time about how someone else is discussing/internalizing/talking about music makes the fandom generally unenjoyable and hard to interact with especially when everything is a contest of who can find the “deepest” layer of the album to contemplate.

if you’re a normal person who kindly suggests looking deeper into the album’s other themes to further other’s enjoyment and experience you’re an angel baby and i love you and this is not about you baby girl sweetie pie you can just scroll and keep being a little gift from god okay? get yourself a little treat and a glass of water yeah?

poorly done tldr: why are we surprised a popular album that mentions cannibalism attracts fans of cannibalism and why are we being incredibly cruel to them for liking it!

(contd below)

but if you comment shit about how they’re fake fans or shallow or dumb or “obviously didn’t REALLY listen to it” this is def for you. if you are normal about your opinions i repeat this is not for you. just scroll

also i’m very high writing all of this so any lore discrepancies are because my brain is sooo scrambled but i’m trying here

But anyways: you don’t have to agree with the person no one’s holding you at gunpoint asking you to or at least i’m not. but you also don’t have to hate in them for it because who fucking cares? no one interacts with ethel cain content just to see someone in the comments going “um it’s NOT just about cannibalism y’know. what a shallow interpretation you obviously didn’t understand it. you didn’t really listen to the album if that’s the most interesting part to you. you’re a fake fan and dumb stupid dummy.” (<this is an exaggerated mock up of the general sentiment. i’m not good at capturing their extremely condescending tone while also being void of actual insult because i’m a nice person almost 24/7)

also, if the other themes are so interesting and important to you: talk about them yourself. i want to hear your thoughts! you have good ideas but you’re making others feel bad for no real reason. like imagine if you shared an opinion about this album or another and I insulted it? you wouldn’t like that would you? also (i can’t believe i have to explain this) some people don’t connect with the other themes of the album or do but less so. some people just really like cannibalism metaphors. it could just be their fav part of the album. plus they’re not official music analyzers (not even a real job i’m pretty sure) what they say doesn’t have to change your opinion and doesn’t affect the art at all. they are an account on tumblr. their interpretation shouldn’t upset you to the point where you have to go out of your way to insult their ideas or intelligence. also not to be that girl but it’s the most shocking part of the album UH DUH PPL FOCUS ON IT. a first time listener is obviously going to go “holy shit he ate her” and talk talk talk about it bc name another pretty popular album at this time that talks (well, sings) about cannibalism. and to go on: not everyone is some deep critic. make the jokes, hyper focus on it if you want, and don’t let random tumblr accounts make you feel bad. i love the other aspects of the album and tend to focus on them the most but that’s not a rule or a law. its just a preference of the albums themes the same way you have one and they have one and you should respect it because it’s not hurting anyone. everyone will be fine and nothing will change except that you didn’t whine about how they’re interpreting music the wrong way and everyone will be happier and i will not have to scroll past your hate comment and think “ugh somebody gag this bitch” (side note: you can argue that the objective right way to interpret art is the same way the artist does how boring would that be? make it personal girl! have fun!)

anyways if you get mad about this check yourself because it’s text on a screen telling you to let ppl live and leave them alone and if that really pisses you off…well…you got other problems. little nervous to post but i really feel like i’m right here because if we could all scroll #ethelcain without intermittent hate posts directed towards other fans for thinking a thought and instead just more content related to the art i think we’d all be happier. i’d like to add that it’s not an overwhelming amount of posts, not a flood or saturation, just enough that i’m like “why! why are you fighting! you like the same thing! be friends!”

secondary point (unrelated mostly): i’ve seen people saying that the metaphor doesn’t exist inside the album and it’s a bit of a muddy opinion about that on my part. i don’t believe isaiah’s consumption of ethel is out of love. it is (in my interpretation) a depraved desire to be filled like the many others humans have but often don’t give in to and also possibly drug enhanced. but as she’s consumed i can’t help but imagine that since she has been chasing love all this time, ethel “finds” it (or rather conjures it out of thin air and the cruelty exacted upon her) for her own comfort as many of us do when being butchered (in the metaphorical sense for us i hope, stay safe out there). but i will agree with the other side that at the very end of the album the illusion seems to fade, and the metaphor no longer works because ethel no longer believes it was love. she sees that true love was dancing with Willoughby in nebraska with all the windows open, not eaten in a windowless basement by Isaiah (not sure where the actual consumption takes place btw. basement, attic, kitchen table, living room tv dinner style idk)

edit: and if you think Hayden would be into you policing how ppl listen to/interpret her album you’re crazy. she herself was normal about her preferences for these themes, stating her understanding of people en captured by that particularity and her own personal sentiments (negative like many of yours) without making anyone feel bad or coming off as snobbish when asked about it. be more like her! plus no one wants to see infighting while scrolling her hashtag! respectful debates yes but jabs at intelligence no!

more edits: this post is meant to end infighting, not elicit a negative/aggressive response. its is supposed to inspire you to be quiet instead of mean. i also do not collect the aforementioned posts like weird trophies to show you when you say “but i haven’t seen that“ good! that’s great! but i’m a normal girl so i don’t have them screenshotted and ready to serve to you on a silver platter.

[canpandaspvp]

KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE SBI FIC THING IM REALLY INTERESTED!! I've always wanted to study that side of the fandom under a microscope but it's scary.

buddy that place is WILDDDD. ok so things you need to know abt sbi side

1. they're damn good writers

2. i don't think they know how to write fanfiction

3. in another universe they create some very well known, published authors

because essentially everything they write is so fucking detached the second it enters an au. with dnf and the general dt side of things, there are differences. sure often times it's a bit more identifiable as fanfiction but that's not a BAD thing. it literally just means people know how to write fanfiction which is what they were intending to do anyways so like hooray

with sbi, i've read SEVERAL (as in i can go into my bookmarks right now and count out at least 10) fics that have just changed and deviated so far from the original source material that it's hard to even understand what they're talking about. in that regard, 100% dnfers get caught out before sbiers, but that's only in the circumstance that they get published at all. sbiers are really creative -- TOO creative, obviously to the point of creation ocs with names and descriptions that often times only vaguely resemble phil, tommy, wilbur, and techno -- which gives them the upper hand publication wise.

that leads into dark sbi which, let it be known, i have NEVER EVER liked. i personally thought it was harsh and unenjoyable but also goddamn did they make some good stories. obviously i read them bc even though i hated the vampires and the kidnapping and shit, it was good. the upper hand of writing fanfiction is that shit is more fast paced and attention grabbing, due to the lack of exposition and shit. so sbiers likely get published first, get discovered on booktube (not booktok cause they only read romance that's packed with tropes to the point of dysfunction), and they at least semi-spread from there until someone is who can't handle any difficult topics in fiction gets upset. but that's a different kind of controversy entirely

sbiers are good authors but they're stuck in this weird limbo of "it's not fanfiction it's just inspired original content" which sort of creates a new genre entirely. they pull some good fanfiction elements into its own realm entirely and it's really frustrating when you want to read fanfiction of something but if you're looking for something fast paced and good to read that aligns with the weird fanon universe they've created, they're your subfandom.

a lot of fics also appeal to personal issues that people are able to project onto easily (i speak from experience) so, while dnf is typically shorter, more accurate, and lighthearted, sbi has dynamics that people often crave in their real life and more people that they can insert themselves into. um that sounds weird but ykwim

they also have The AU's which dnf has but it's just not to the extent that sbi has it. the trifecta:

1. superhero aus

2. royalty aus

3. foster care aus

ran that tag for a good 2 years minimum. those are the sort of Peter Parker Goes On A Field Trip To Stark Industries type of aus where you have a good baseline that people get attached to, so you can sort of rewrite the same story different enough that people feel like they're reading smth new each time. and it works!! if people were to publish an sbi fic (which would likely fall into one of those 3 categories), it'd be realllyyyyyy recognizable just bc it was such a staple in the community. ifl im missing some other big categories but those are just the aus that i remembered off the top of my head that showed up a fuckton

don't get me wrong, i ❤️ dnf fanfiction and you def could publish it if you tried hard enough, but those authors do shit right. the characterization is so niche and specific, the dynamics are so unique, and often times, there just isn't enough in one fic to build and create a story. so much of dnf fanfiction relies on the fact that you already know those two, you know who they are, how they behave, their stakes regarding each other, etc etc. with sbi, the authors end up essentially writing their own stories so much so that they have to tell the story like it's a novel rather than fanfiction. it's very interesting imo esp bc fanon tommy for example is so extremely, incomprehensibly different from c!tommy or cc!tommy, with only enough hits of similarity to keep you hooked into the story with the illusion that you're actually reading the same character, when more often then not, it's like 1/4 tommy, 1/4 fandom misinterpretation interpretation, 1/4 author projection, and 1/4 recycled oc. again, speaking from experience.

also, sbi authors are pretty cocky about their writing, and it's really noticeable when they write a fic with the intention of changing the names and couple minor details to submit to an editing company for a few rounds of revision before they publish their nyt bestseller a few years down the line. they didn't need to leave the fandom to abandon their shit. lorehead analysts have a decent grasp of their content (but i'm biased), but lorehead writers?? different monster entirely. the second dsmp stands for something like "delicious small mtown pforsuperherovillanvigilanteshenanigans" then you know they're too far gone. they're attached to THEIR characters, not the dsmp's; if it means sacrificing the original source material for real life recognition, they'd do it in a heartbeat. i don't blame them but the point still stands.

this is all over the place i'm so sorry idek if i said anything you wanted to know but

tl;dr sbi fanfiction sort of became its own medium between fanfiction and original work so they're more likely to get published, but they fall into the same dynamics in the same type of universes that would easily get them figured out. dnf writers just seem to mind their damn business more. anyway, most dnf writers that left the fandom seem to want to completely forget that they ever did That. usually they just orphan/delete and move on cause they're embarrassed.

sorry again i'm so not good at explaining my thoughts but i did NOT spend 2 1/2 years reading sbi fanfiction 24/7 for nothing. i need to put my experience to use somehow so thanks for letting me do that 😭😭😭

[anonymousredactedconfessions]

coming from someone who doesn’t really have any strong feelings abt alexis, alexis haters are some of the most annoying people in the fandom. you guys come out of the woodworks every other month just to try to argue with alexis fans and it makes the entire redacted tag unenjoyable for the rest of the fandom. no alexis didn’t sexually assault sam, yes she was fucked up for turning him against his will but nobody is denying that?? y’all will love the evil MALE characters on the channel like blake who’s kidnapped and lowkey tortured sunshine, regulus who’s like only purpose is to stalk and violate his listener, and other MEN who just generally do wrong but hate alexis (a woman) to your very cores and it’s weird as hell. if you can’t handle people liking a character you don’t care for, you’re not mature enough to interact with people in your fandom and you need a hobby. alexis haters are weird and annoying and every time you guys open your mouths to say some dumb shit i like her more and more.

.

[jonginnation]

I’ve come to realize one of the recent things I don’t enjoy about idol/kpop fandom is this fixation on the brand deals and ambassadorships an idol gets and focusing on the business aspect of their career as stanning fodder. Like I’m happy for them and I look forward to seeing the ad cause it’ll have their photo or a clip of them. But this fixation on how these deals are a measure of their popularity and wealth and the fixation on the internal business mechanics of it all is just…. So uninteresting and even though I know this will sound snobby… I think it’s all so vulgar.

I guess it’s because this kinda fixation isn’t focused on stanning the idol as an artist. I like stanning an artist and following their art/craft so focusing on music, dancing, the drama or movie they acted in, if it’s an ad then focus on the creative aspects of the modeling, makeup, and styling. Not the business aspect of it. I stan an artist, not a business plan, not a contract, not a marketing strategy.

Can we focus on the art? The artist and what they’ve put out as their creative work into the world? Hell… talk about their friendships or brotherhood or personality or some funny things they did or said if you want to because that is a big part of fandom too, just stupid fun stuff. At least it’s something that can make you feel and it’s about connection to something or someone.

Focusing on what the brand’s pr team is doing, what other professionals behind the scenes are doing, the revenue supposedly gained by the company from these ads, the ad engagement numbers, gaging the idols popularity with the gp based on number of ads and brand deals blah blah blah 😖😖😖 this shit is so fcking mind numbing!

Like you’re gonna go up to him and be like “im such a fan and admire your number of IG/Twitter engagements on that one ad!” ..???? Is this what being a fan is now because it wasn’t like this not that long ago? Why are we talking about some multinational company’s pr team because of some IG post? 😖😵‍💫🫠

This kind of stanning is really widespread in Kai fandom and some other fandoms too. Call me dramatic, but I think it treats him like a commodity (an economic good/product) instead of an artist talking about him/his career that way. And I guess some smart person can argue all idols are commodities or whatever and that we treat them that way already and I’d probably reblog that shit 🙄 but whatever…. And I also realize it’s not like someone can’t talk about that, imo useless stuff as far as stanning an idol/artist, and talk about the artistic side or fun/silly side too. What I’m saying is that the amount of time and focus on the non-artistic side of things that I just described is way up these days and it makes fandom soulless and unenjoyable.

[stop-breaking-my-heart-telltale]

I don’t get you, CJ. Why are you so quick to throw around the term “bad writing” when you don’t agree with something? Why not simply chalk it up to having different likes or dislikes than other people and move on?

Instead of deconstructing characters you don’t like, why not use your platform to empower other voices and highlight others with different tastes or opinions than you? Different people notice different things about the games. That’s one of the nice things about fandom.

You clearly love writing and analysis, but when you post answers to asks that hold different opinions than you’re own, you often go “you’re valid, but…” and launch into paragraphs upon paragraphs of your opposite opinion rather than truly exploring theirs.

I guess what I’m trying to say is I think your blog and analyses would be stronger if rather than dismissing plot points or characters as “bad writing” you step outside yourself and ask others what they see in that writing since it’s not connecting with you.

To be fair, anon, I don't get me either.

But I hear you, so if you'll allow me to do the thing where I launch into paragraphs upon paragraphs, let's talk about this.

I assume this might've come about because of the recent Violet talk here? Or maybe it's from older posts, I dunno, you didn't specify so I can only speculate and use the Violet posts as the main example here.

So here's the thing... deconstructing characters and storylines is something I enjoy doing. Hell, it's one of my favorite things to do. It doesn't matter if I like or dislike the character, or if I agree with plot directions, or if I think it's "good" or "bad" writing. That's how I work things out for myself, how I try to understand why I'm feeling the way I am about certain characters and story elements. I break apart the different aspects of these things and analyze them so that I can improve the content I create and try to avoid the same mistakes I've come across that I wanted to be better.

When it comes to me tossing around "bad writing", or just implying it, I'm not trying to say that "bad writing = trash, garbage, unenjoyable, anyone who likes this is a dingus, how could you?" it's more "I see flaws here and I want it to be better, I know it can be better and it frustrates me that I can't fix it," y'know?

And I'm fully aware that other people might not see it that way. With that basketball Violet post, I know that a lot of the Violet crowd are gonna read that and be like "no, I love the bell tower scene! It fits well with her character! What are you talking about?" and that's fine, I expect that. That post was me writing something that's been on my mind that I wanted to share, it wasn't me trying to scold anyone for liking it or trying to dismiss their feelings about it.

When it comes to differing opinions, especially on Violet, I've come to the conclusion that we just gotta agree to disagree. I've tried for years at this point to understand the appeal of Violet and gone looking for answers about her in hopes of being enlightened, and I have asked around.

In the past, I have made posts inquiring about what people see in Violet [Minerva, too] and why they prefer Violentine, and I got little to nothing in response. So I totally get where you're coming from when you say I should ask others what they see in the writing that I don't, but there's only so much I can do when no one is willing to answer me. So, I have to look around myself.

I've searched through several threads on reddit and none of them have been insightful, unsurprisingly.

That's what sparked my mini-rant about Louis before. On reddit, a lot of the answers on why people like Violet are either "she sided with Clementine, she's just really sweet deep down, she has more trauma, and lesbian," or "I like Violet more because Louis is a traitor," and what the hell am I supposed to get out of that, y'know? They're not really telling me anything, they're just looking to argue among themselves and I've had to throw in the towel on that one.

I've had better luck here, having read some truly insightful posts about Violet, her arc, and her relationship with Clementine. The conclusion I've reached it that the things people find appealing about her are things that I don't.

If you need an example, we'll use the aftermath of Marlon's murder when Violet turns on the group to defend AJ. Every post from the Violet crowd I've read that talks about that scene praises her for turning against her friends/family to defend AJ when they were gonna attack him, it shows what she's willing to do for them, that's something that drew them to her. Then there's me, who sees that as adding unnecessary aggression to the situation when none of them were going to attack AJ, they weren't looking at AJ, and none of this is helping. Neither of these interpretations are wrong.

Guess what I'm trying to get at is I'm one person, and having discussions takes more than one willing person.

Moving on, "when you post answers to asks that hold different opinions than you’re own, you often go “you’re valid, but…” and launch into paragraphs upon paragraphs of your opposite opinion rather than truly exploring theirs."

I've thought about this for a while, and maybe I do actually do this but don't realize it. I like to think that I'm engaging with the ideas that people send me, but I dunno, maybe I can be dismissive of things because I have a hard time being objective. That's something I've always struggled with, and I'm sorry if I ever came across as dismissive or didn't fully explore ideas, that's something I can definitely get better at.

As for "why not use your platform to empower other voices and highlight others with different tastes or opinions than you? Different people notice different things about the games. That’s one of the nice things about fandom."

I've done character nights, ship nights, season nights, etc. for about two years, give or take. That's what those nights were about. Usually, I'd put up a poll and we'd all vote on what we wanted to discuss, and then the floor was open for anyone to give their input, and we'd discuss.

I stopped doing them a little while ago because I was burnt out on themed nights. Remembering to make new polls, setting aside part of my weekends to spend hours answering asks the best I could, usually dealing with other projects on top of it all.... it may not seem like it, but god, those nights took a lot out of me. I loved doing it! Having those discussions were some of the best parts of running this blog, but now my new job has me working 40+ hours a week, four days with ten hour shifts and occasionally some overtime on the weekends, I just don't have it in me anymore to do it every single weekend. Not with how tired I am and with all the other projects I'm working on.

That's why I've started testing the waters with these shorter posts of me throwing out ideas or going on mini-rants. They're something simple I can do with no pressure, just me with an empty document getting whatever's on my mind out... and it helps that it feels like my last fuck has just flown away to the heavens to weave itself into the boat god's beard like as he sails among the clouds and stars..... so now I'm gonna talk about whatever I want and the fact that it's my opinion is implied.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a little defensive with this part, I tend to get that way whenever people tell me what I should or shouldn't do with my blog, even if they're just trying to be helpful and I don't believe you have any ill intent with your message. I've had this blog for three years now, and I've always had people telling me I shouldn't do character analyses, I should stay in my lane, just write fanfics and do character nights. I should answer more asks otherwise people will think I don't care. I shouldn't write headcanon posts, that's what other blogs do and I'll be taking content away from them. I shouldn't write that one au I've always wanted to because I should be working on [with you]. I shouldn't write anything but [with you.] I shouldn't talk about Violet because I'm a Louis blog.

And that's dumb. All of that is dumb! No one owns the concept of headcanon posts or character analyses! Just like how I don't own the concept of character nights!

Again, my last fuck is lost in Kenny's beard, I don't have it anymore. I'm going to write and analyze whatever I want, when I want, and the best I can do is promise to be better. My inbox is open, I'll try to answer and engage with you guys when I can, I'll keep doing these posts where I ramble about whatever topic is on my mind, and I shouldn't have to put a disclaimer of "This is all my opinion and it's okay if you disagree, I'm not trying to invalidate you" because that's implied.

Before I close out this long response, I do wanna add a thank you for the ask, I do appreciate the constructive criticism. Usually anons that have any problem with me after I talk about Violet will just call me a piece of shit and tell me to delete my blog. Maybe this helped you, maybe it didn't, either way thanks :)

[latinforlight]

We collectively, as a fandom, need to stop hating on these characters. HOLY SHIT.

The entire point of this show is that no one is perfect, teenage life is messy, the way people deal with parental expectation and grief can be ugly, etc. Why are we holding Ben and Paxton to a completely different expectation than Devi? And to each other?

This is just really making my time in the fandom unenjoyable.

Believe me, I have my issues with Ben. Even Paxton for that matter. But I'm not gonna sit here and shit on Ben just because I don't like some of the things he did. I generally like Ben except a few things, but even then I get why he does those things, making him an interesting character, but I'm sick of how much Paxton hate I see to prop him up. Like seriously, why are people sending anon hate to pro-Paxton blogs? And I'm sure Daxton has their fair share of toxic fans who feel it necessary to bring hate to a blog that's pro-Ben.

Yikes, y'all. We can do better. I want solidarity dammit.

[zhilan]

Not really a question just my frustration sr about my english... I don't understand why people still say shit about Gigi and about how they don't trust her. Like she's probably the only character who truly tried to communicate with her people, everybody else just seems to hide their feeling away...Hasn't that always been the problem? And yet everyone gets a pass but when it comes to Gigi??? And also the woman hasn't said a single bad thing about Bette Porter :)))))) and Bette...how many times she talk shit about Gigi?

And funny how some said their sex scene was meh and tried to compare with the others ...like duh? Don't get me wrong, to me it was hot and beautiful but ofc it didn't truly click because Dani was angry. But for me, the true key point was when they had their later conversation to reach the level of communication, intimacy, and understanding that was when it really felt grounded, that was when it left me shaking... Dani, Gigi, Bette are still my favs even though Bette really gets on my nerves a lot this season. Hate seeing them fight!!

I think it's hard sometimes, when you see characters that mean something to you be hated on by other people. I also get that it can feel personal especially when they're characters that you maybe relate to or see yourself in. The thing with fandoms though, is that there will always be haters and what I've learned is that most of the time there's nothing you can really do about it. So I say if the fandom is making it unenjoyable for you, try to avoid reading what they're saying or try not to let their opinions hold so much weight for you. Don't let their opinions ruin something you love and don't let them drag your energy down! 💖

I agree though, I've always found Gigi to be extremely open, honest and very in touch with her emotions which is good thing. I think a lot of people misinterpret that openness and willingness to put herself out there as her being a player, but I really think she just genuinely tries to put effort into every relationship she's in for the potential that it holds and she just hasn't had luck in finding something real (til she met Dani). That doesn't make her a player, it makes her genuine and sincere.

Dani, Gigi and Bette are my favs too! But I don't mind the fighting honestly 😂It's probably because I know they'll resolve it eventually so it's okay but that's just me.

[i-will-physically-fight-you]

That... Wow, yeah... You put it into words... This year has been so rough on my mental state that I'm seriously feeling like that right now. Especially since my grandfather passed away a few months ago my mental health has been declining big time and it's not getting any better. I feel like the last day of this year is when I'm going to die. But yet I don't...care... Every time I go to sleep I keep wishing that I don't wake up. And when I do in the morning I feel disappointed and depressed, like I wanted nothing else but to not wake up.

I often daydream every single time I step outside that I'll get in a car accident and die. Or some car will run me over. And I keep feeling more and more awful cause as my mental health is declining more and more I can't concentrate on drawing or writing. And my adhd brain is screaming at me that if I'm not constantly doing something in this fandom that I'm worthless. Im nothing. And it doesn't help that my hyperfixation of this fandom is dying out and I have nothing else to hyperfixate on. So I already feel like shit too.

And it keeps getting worse with no end in sight. I have no friends to express this to. My parents will think it's a joke and just brush it off like they have before. But thank you. I knew this was a sucidal thing but I didn't know there was a term for it. And it makes me feel better that I'm not the only person feeling this so thank you.

-

Aww, dear anon I wish nothing more than to offer you a hug and maybe some hot chocolate :(

I feel you, I really do. I’m glad that by sharing my experiences, it’s helped a bit. You’re truly not alone--regardless of what your brain might tell you. And it’s true that some people might not understand, but it’ll surprise you how many will understand. I want you to know that I think you’re incredibly brave for sharing your experiences with me. And I hope you prove yourself wrong by living to see New Year’s Day happen and many more days.

In regards to creating content, during the height of my suicidal ideation, I could not write. I really truly couldn’t. And it ate at me, because writing is my thing--if I’m not writing, what good am I? It was also extremely bad, because I was still taking classes and one of my classes was a creative writing class. 

So uh, it was extremely important for my grades to be able to write. I couldn’t bring myself to either drop out or reach out to the professor with what was going on. I really wish I had. Maybe the professor would’ve been understanding. It was an online class and I kept waiting for the professor to be the one to say something about my missing assignments, to notice and reach out, but they didn’t. I got a F in that class. A F for something I’m extremely passionate about. A F for something you could argue I’m decent at. 

And honestly, I still struggle with viewing writing as the only thing causes me to have value. As creators our writing/art can be something so intimate that we feel like it’s a part of us. And while it is, sorta, also it’s a separate entity, a tool we use to express ourselves. You are more than the writing/art you create. You have value outside of it, and it should not define all that you are. 

You are not worthless if you aren’t constantly producing writing/art. Your worth isn’t measured by how much content you produce. By just existing, being on this planet, is value enough. The odds of you existing at all is infinitesimal. As a friend once told me, “You’re a human being, not a human doing. It’s okay sometimes to just be.”

 Allow yourself a chance to heal. Take a mental breather from creating. No one expects an athlete to perform at their absolute best if they’re injured. They expect that athlete to take time off the field and heal before they go back out there.

By continuing to create when it’s causing pain will cause your brain to associate writing/art as something negative and unenjoyable. I know it’s hard, I know how it feels by not writing/drawing you cease to have worth, but pls consider it.

In regards to waking up--I often create task lists, because it helps me stay on target in the midst of adhd/depression fog. The first thing I always have at the top of my list is “Wake Up” it’s sorta silly, but y’know what? Waking Up is a big accomplishment. It’s not something you wanted to do. You could’ve laid in bed all day but you didn’t. You got up. That’s BIG. Recognize that.

If you ever want to reach out to me via askbox again or even DMs, please feel free to. I’d be happy to offer a listening ear and perhaps provide further encouragement should you need it. I’m rooting for ya <3

[tacosandtomcos]

So many Starcos are so used to shoveling shit into their mouths they have no idea what good writing is like, or what it should be.

eh i don’t think that’s true, plenty of people know how messy things became later on down the series.

but at the same time, despite how subjective a lot of these things can be.

there is a way to write and handle plots and pull off arcs to achieve an ending that feels complete, like, i think if things had gone perfectly the fandom wouldn’t have reacted the way they did.

Like, don’t get me wrong , even endings that feel fantastic you can look back on and wish maybe something had changed.

But i think if the ending or how something was done turns off a majority of people and takes them out of the story, then it probably failed in some way.

like i feel more like people who found tom ok didn’t care, but people who had been really invested in tom’s arc were pretty mad about his treatment, and these are the people this show is supposed to win over here.

the show has to aim for ending everyone’s arc in a way where the people who enjoyed their characters feel satisfied with their end and how things went for them and that they spent a good amount of time on them.

there’s nothing more satisfying in a character arc then for a character to feel like they found their true happiness, go through all their problems for the most part, and accomplished everything they set out to do. 

I’m happy tom got through his problems, i’m super happy about it.

but it’s extremely difficult to enjoy his arc because it was tied so closely to his relationships with star and marco, and the show practically dismissed those relationships by the end.

He improved greatly, and i’m proud, but he came so far because of his friends and both of them pushed him aside and it felt around the end more like he was another love interest that was being brushed aside for star and marco.

the idel end should’ve been for him to not only have improved, but for those relationships to reach their peak, and instead they got cut off because they needed star and marco to be together, so they never reach a peak, they feel shortlived or brushed to the side.

all that relationship development he has with both of them and it doesn’t really amount to much, it comes off like it exists for tom to push them together and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth because it makes everything feel less genuine.

like they made him friends with them just so he could get them together, it takes a lot away from his arc and gives him a rather unenjoyable, and weaker end.

He got no sendoff for his character despite being here since the beginning, he was just kinda...there

[transhawks]

Something I've noticed in like...discourse is that the way I and @dabistits approach it definitely based on the fact both of us are social science majors used to looking at source material, questioning biases and validity, and debating ethics. It's part of it.

And we bring that method but ...that also comes with the assumption the people whose content we criticize can engage like that? Many of people holding fast to their noncon porn and shota/loli stuff are still practically teens, even if legal adults, and if not, assuming everyone has the access to academia is obviously near-sighted.

But it makes having conversations difficult then - because there's very little engagement with the actual arguments being made and only reactions and complete disregard for 'why' someone is saying and only 'what'. It also got really messy when people revealed their status as csa survivors as justification when, as we should be honest, that stuff is produced and consumed by people who aren't necessarily survivors.

So, it's a derailment in itself, because it focuses on who has the right to produce and consume this material, something that can't be debates because it cannot be 'policed', rather than the initial argument of whether sexualized and fetishizing depictions of rape for the sole purpose of sexual gratification should be produced and consumed in fandom spaces at all.

And, listen, I do have friends who vehemently disagree with me because the point of escapism, which fandom undou tedly is, is not to give things like this a consideration. For many of these people, sex isn't a real life reality either and so this glorified 'dark, taboo, edgy' shit is pretty much frustration at situations in life where sex is either unavailable or unenjoyable as much as what they produce and consume. Questioning whether it allows for a healthy community to consistently celebrate and unquestionably defend the right of prosuction to rape porn or child porn or incest, is seen as a personal attack on many of these peoples' sexualities because if they truly start examining it from moral standpoints or a wider community perspective, they'll start to question their enjoyment and people hate being uncomfortable. Cogntive dissonance is a thing.

Finally, I'll also say this: I heard a few seconds of the Emmy's last night and Billy Porter explained succinctly why actors and artists are important: their fictional portrayals change the hearts and minds of viewers. As uncomfortable as it is, maybe it's time we admit that all the media we consune does affect us, affects our time, affects our views and emotional states, and affects us in general.. Fiction...non-fiction, it doesn't matter; media shapes us and our realities, changes minds all the time.

And I truly hope within time many of those defending the content Worldie was criticizing change their minds too. I know I did.

[tinkdw]

How do you manage to stay positive amongst this awful fandom mood that’s been going on since the cancellation announcement? It’s like there’s new wank everyday from almost all sides and it really takes away my enjoyment of the show, I wish I had your patience to deal with this

I generally have bigger fish to fry. I don’t let it get more important in my life than is healthy.

When I was depressed and found SPN, binge watched it all and googled “do cas and dean end up together” after season 9 and found fandom, when I set up my blog when season 12 aired, I used it as a crutch. I was obsessive. Now I’m over my depression and have a 4 week old baby I enjoy the show and stay in fandom out of habit and thanks to the distraction for the night feeds tbh!

But it should never be more than a hobby unless it’s helping you through something, imo, and if it turns ugly and unenjoyable then it’s time to take a pause.

That’s the issue with these bitter and anti people, they’ve let it get too obsessive and important in their lives to the point where their negative emotions spiral to the point they can’t see reality anymore and think their crazy ass reaction is normal. It’s not normal. It’s a friggin tv show. If you’re assholing at real people over it there’s the line you just crossed from normal fun hobby to obsessive and unhealthy. There’s a reason the term Stan is reminiscent of someone murdering their girlfriend and child and committing suicide it’s UNHEALTHY AF.

Enjoy what you enjoy, go for a walk, see real life people, get your hair cut, idk, but don’t let a tv show run your emotions. Enjoy the entertainment, make some positive friends in fandom and if it’s not enjoyable then stop.

I generally just enjoy what I enjoy and have fun with my friends here and on my Twitter GC, otherwise I roll my eyes at the idiots tbh. I’ve spent 3 years pointing out the bleeding obvious and people still wanking about stuff I’ve explained a gazillion times or that’s just standard fucking storytelling or common sense... I roll my eyes and remember that’s what the writers and cast do. Bobo literally likes anti tweets cos he thinks they’re funny, j2m give zero shits about the antis, Dabb fucking trolls them.

If they don’t let it get to them and they can continue to create the show and enjoy it then I can continue to watch it and enjoy it. As for those choosing to wallow in negativity

[smileykeijser]

hey if you don't mind saying what are your reason for not enjoying skam france? cause ibwas really enjoying it up until a but past half way and then i just stopped and im tryna figure out what .if it have been the reason(sl

I’m mostly going to talk about season 3 here because from what I’ve seen the first two seasons were just copies of the original and didn’t have much problems apart from that.

This got super long so it’s under the cut.

Problems in the actual show:

I found Maxence to be extremely unrealistic as a 19 year old, he looked way too old and it broke the spell for me. I know Rocco was also way too old, but they did a much better job making him look like a realistic high schooler, Maxence never sold me which made it hard to believe the show. I saw a similar problem with Michel being cast as Charles because as sweet as he is, he looks nothing like a high schooler so it didn’t seem realistic. Both Maxence and Michel are super sweet guys they just didn’t fit into the show.

The entire season felt cartoonish to me. Sure there were some really great moments but overall the new characters and the atmosphere of the whole show felt cringy and cartoonish to me which made it unenjoyable.

The way they had Basile and Daphne end up together was awful. I know they were trying to do a whole redemption thing with Basile but he was terrible all season long, and not in a douchey boy way like in Skam NL where you don’t like them because of how realistically awful they’re acting, he just seemed like a terrible attempt at a comedic character that was the cringiest part of the season. Then he kept approaching Daphne even though it was blatantly clear she had zero interest in him, and yet when he finally stepped away they decided that she would just flip on a dime and figure out she liked him because he acted decently one time? Ugh she deserves better.

There were certain things that didn’t really come through in the end that I didn’t like. Mika treated Lucas so poorly at the beginning, but there was never any sort of resolution where Mika apologized or they mended their problems, I mean, Lucas got kicked out of his bedroom in his new apartment when Manon came back, that’s a super shitty thing to do. And the whole thing with Yann not accepting Lucas as gay and making Lucas feel like shit only to reverse that plot point and not do anything of substance with it made me feel like they were harsh just to be harsh and to say they were, instead of actually making it a part of the season, which they could have done and it would have been really impactful.

I also just didn’t particularly enjoy Elu, they didn’t really click with me and therefore season 3 was hard to enjoy.

Outside of the show:

I found the whole thing so unlike Skam in the commercialization of the season. There was so much bts content and direct information right from the writers and director, and the amount of interview content they released all the time was just so much and broke the bubble. It almost felt like they never wanted there to be a moment without some sort of new content that could be gushed over, and when the outside world of Skam becomes too intwined with the show it doesn’t work for me. It felt like the promotion that I would see from the CW or Freeform here in North America where the actors are as essential to the process as the actual show, when in the og the show took full focus and most of the remakes are creating that atmosphere in some way shape or form. Skam Italia has had some events where the cast does panels or talks to the fans but it didn’t irk me as much because it didn’t feel like the actor content was everywhere on the official channels.

I think that the Skam France fandom has the highest percentage of fetishizers and real life shippers out of all the remakes and it makes the fandom sometimes feel much younger than the rest of the remakes and much less inviting. I’ve also seen a fair few people in the fandom be really hostile to people who dislike the season, calling them homophobic or saying that they don’t have real friends of their own so they don’t know what support looks like. This is not the entire fandom but it makes an impact when you see those types of things.

Overall, it’s not the remake for me, but I respect the many people who enjoy it!

[greybat]

I didn’t realize there was drama happening in the Sweet Enchantments/Voltage games fandoms.

SO, these are my rambling thoughts:

Sweet Enchantments is a cafe with criminals in their employ. Like, my dudes, I kind of think all of these characters are going to have some problematic elements and overcoming them will be the point of their routes. 

However, after playing and considering other people’s points, my main concerns are: 

How much do the customers acknowledge magic is being used on them? I don’t know, seems like a can of worms...

The fact MC gets magically bound to their LI is kind of shitty. She just wandered in, she’s got no clue what’s going on. They could’ve just sent her back? This leads me to suspect there’s a frustrating lack of consistency when it comes to consent in magic use.

Also, I have concerns about the seeming lack of studying most magicians do. It seems it’s usually an innate talent for them, which - to me - implies their magic could affect others without the magician realizing it.

Anyway, on to the characters! My impressions and thoughts on them all.

Emeril

Works part-time at the cafe

Likes detective novels (in Runa’s route)

I wonder if she’s doing community service for a misdemeanor - rather than what she told MC - but that’s me

Seems genuinely pleasant. Seems.

But it’s always the quiet ones that are the scariest.

Roman 

Dude has memory magic... and he’s so pleasant. How much you wanna bet he magics away his bad memories?

In fact, he magics away people’s bad memories. Which could be problematic if people buying his dishes aren’t aware of what he’s doing? 

Like, I get bad memories and feelings suck, but sometimes you gotta steep in them to manage or work passed them.

Definitely eager for his route, though. I think it has a lot of angst potential.

Zain

I’m so interested in Zain’s route, too, tbh.

Curse/dark/hex magic? What did he do to be put in the cafe? What’s the extent of his powers? Was he always side-eyed for his style of magic, so he just went “if you think I’m bad just for my magic, I’m going to do bad things then.”

Though, again, he casts stuff to clear up hexes and curses in his coffee. Is this consented to by the patrons?

Either way, witch man, tell me your backstory. And give me an iced coffee.

Liora

I’m assuming she has calming magic. She literally exudes it (or does she use it to keep her charges + MC in line? Another question of consent and magic.)

Seems like the responsible, can’t-take-a-break type. 

I’m getting a Reiner feel from her, for some reason. Super kind, takes in a variety of charges, but also really responsible. All that’s missing are some parent jokes.

HOWEVER, it seems really questionable to leave her charges alone when she goes on extended meetings.

I don’t know. I like Liora as a character, but I don’t think I’d like her route, if it’s revealed she does manipulate emotions or feelings to a calmer spectrum. For me, I’ve had to re-claim anger and other emotions and to be made to feel otherwise - whether on purpose or otherwise - by magic, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

NOW, onto the routes available to us. I’ve played both. I enjoy both, even though I’ll probably rip into them. 

Lucien

Anyone else annoyed by his beard? It seems an odd design element, but maybe that’s just me. 

Ice king

Tries really hard not to fall for MC, because it’s a) against the rules of the Sweet Enchantments criminal house ((I think)) and b) it’s against the rules, in general, for magicians and humans to be a thing.

He has luck magic and -he’s studied magic, extensively. (I feel like it’s implied he’s studied more than the other LIs, which is where my concern on studying+control stems from.)

He’s a jerk, but he’s also trying to keep people at arm’s length. idk I’m guessing the last time he got close to someone, shit went down. Maybe he was used for nefarious things, since everyone seems to be “oh, wow, what a helpful magic you have Lucien!” 

I’m not super into his route, but it wasn’t totally unenjoyable, either!

Runa

Charm magic (that somehow animates non-living things and causes people to love her?)

Lot of discourse over coercing or even raping Kamila. I’m not even sure if they had sex. Yes, Runa forcing someone to love her is really shitty and problematic, but love doesn’t necessarily mean sex. (Maybe I missed some key implications, though.)

I feel like Runa has been victimized in the past, to some extent, as well. Not to justify what she did to Kamila and some of the iffy scenes with MC, but I feel like that behavior was normalized for Runa and that implies someone did it to her before. Which, this is coming from someone who grew up in an emotionally negligent and abusive household, has done abusive things without realizing it, finally acknowledged they were abusive, and has striven to be better, I can appreciate Runa getting this sort of potential character development.

Again, my big concern is the overall concept of consent in magic in magician society:  

Are magicians just used to always sprinkling magic on everything? 

Do the patrons know magic is being used on them? 

Or do they just accept magic is always used on anything they consumed or buy? 

Are some magics considered definitely bad (like forcing love, obviously) while they make excuses for other things (like a magically-fueled, calming auras?)

I don’t know. These are just my impressions and I’d definitely like to explore the world of Sweet Enchantments more.