#fandom problem 5604

[damnfandomproblems]

Fandom Problem #5604:

i really hate the attitude that seems to evolve from "straight ships are bad!" to "well straight ships are okay ONLY if the man is more submissive and the woman is more dominant" to "wait but if a man is submissive that obviously means he's gay and really wants to be with a man because being submissive is a feminine trait oh god i'm so progressive"

or "yes you could ship this M/F couple but ONLY if you also go out of your way to make a point of saying that they're both bi and trans <3"

[ao3feed-ineffablehusbandz]

beat the blessed earth with our heartbeats

beat the blessed earth with our heartbeats

by hyruling

“Leave it alone, Aziraphale,” Crowley interrupts sharply. “I’m serious. It’s not worth the risk.”

“Perhaps it is,” Aziraphale says, quiet and intent.

Crowley recoils sharply, removing his hand from Aziraphale’s arm. He’s gone pale—whether it’s due to the idea of Aziraphale falling or because he’s understood Aziraphale’s double meaning is anyone’s guess.

Words: 5604, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English

Fandoms: Good Omens (TV)

Rating: Mature

Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply

Categories: M/M

Characters: Aziraphale (Good Omens), Crowley (Good Omens)

Relationships: Aziraphale/Crowley (Good Omens)

Additional Tags: Love Confessions, First Kiss, reference to thee EVERY spoiler, though if you have no idea what that is you probably won't recognize it as a spoiler? idk, Post-Scene: Church in London 1941 (Good Omens), sort of? like other stuff happens but it revolves mostly around that, crowley sleeps instead of dealing with his problems. relatable king, they kiss once and never talk about it again. as you do

From https://ift.tt/puJ7n1E https://archiveofourown.org/works/48816721

[damnfandomproblems]

I think people aren’t fully listening to me in regards to 5604. First off, don’t call asks about queer people speaking about the history of fandom—which is inherently queer history—bait. Rude.

White cishets writing stories isn’t inherently fandom. Fandom started when POC/queer creators joined, because without creativity and insight to how marginalized groups are treated, it was just white cishets writing stereotypes and fetishizing minority groups. People writing gay Star Trek fanfiction was likely filled with bigotry and stereotypes about gay men. It wasn’t until queer people and POC took the little stereotype story club and turned it into something better.

Marginalized people being allowed into fandom is still a new concept, which is why you can find “how to write POC characters” “how to write queer characters” posts everywhere, proving that marginalized fans haven’t been allowed in fandom for very long!! Marginalized people also are behind proshipping. Anything not straight or stereotypical of oppressed groups was looked down upon—that’s where antis got their start, by hating anything that wasn’t straight and white!! Proshipping was a way to acknowledge that all ships are valid, including ones that aren’t full of harmful stereotypes written by white cishets.

Another thing is that fandom is fictional. Showing “hatred” for straight white cishet characters is a way for the oppressed to vent about their experiences with oppression in a way where they won’t get violently hurt for it. Fandom is a tool to help those who are victims to the power imbalance in the country—pointing out that ships portraying a dynamic where men are superior to women (straight ships) aren’t that great isn’t some type of bigotry or hatred. It’s queer teens being frustrated that their one escape from the world is dominated by the sexism and misogyny of heterosexual relationships.

If fandom was started by straight white women, why is it supposedly so “hateful to m/f ships” in the first place? It’s because the “hatred” is a psychological tool to help people feel more at peace in a world that wasn’t made for them.

I thought this was a place for like-minded queer individuals to discuss their experiences with the gift of fandom, but now it’s full of either bootlickers with internalized prejudices about themselves, or just straight whites. I will be telling my friends to unfollow as well. You’ve disappointed me greatly today, all of you.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[damnfandomproblems]

Ironically, the one person complaining about cishets and claiming fandom is created for queers got the cishets and queer people to unite against that opinion.

Maybe there's hope for fandom after all.

Posting as a response to the current reply chain.

[damnfandomproblems]

Gonna have to disagree with 5604…fandom was created by and for POC and queer people, so it’s understandable to be cautious around content that caters to cisheteronormativity. Some people take it too far I guess, but it’s valid to be protective of something you use to find relief from your oppressors, especially when said oppressors try to weasel their way into the spaces you’ve made for yourselves and others. Sort of like the “you don’t belong here, make your own space” but then “why are you excluding us” image.

Sometimes straight couples being depicted can be traumatic for queer fandom folks, and that needs to be respected. Don’t tell people to off themselves because of ships even if the hatred is valid, but also realize that queer people aren’t obligated to respect your cishet ships.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[damnfandomproblems]

For 5604, why do so many people in fandom use the fact that someone might be cis, or straight, or white to invalidate what they have to say?

Even if someone is one of those or more, they’re still allowed to have opinions. Are their opinions less valid because they happen to be cis/straight/white? If we’re trying to make everyone feel welcome in fandom, why do some people act as if some identities are less than others?

For crying out loud, the amount of times I’ve seen gay people, trans people, and poc being called straight, cis or white like it’s supposed to be an insult and that they can’t have certain ships or form ideas about certain characters is alarming.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[damnfandomproblems]

https://www.tumblr.com/damnfandomproblems/759926532106059776/i-think-people-arent-fully-listening-to-me-in?source=share

Your sexual orientation has exactly zero to do with your level of creativity and if you think being some flavor of LGBT automatically makes you some sort of creative genius I'd put money on you being the most boring motherfucker on the planet.

We don't care if you fuck, how you fuck, or who you fuck. We want good stories and art. And literally anyone can create that. Art is the most inclusive thing there is.

Posting as a response to a previous ask.

[damnfandomproblems]

759926532106059776

"I thought this was a place for like-minded queer individuals to discuss their experiences with the gift of fandom"

Huh. What.

What about this blog screams "everyone here is queer"? Or even "this is a blog for queer people"? It's a blog for everyone.

And can you sound any more pretentious? Dear god, all the mental gymnastics you're doing to justify--not just explain, but implicitly justify--the act of harassing Jane Doe because she ships a cishet pairing. Yeah, we have trauma. Yeah, we deal with a lot of shit. But guess what? I also have cishet ships. And unlike you, apparently, I understand that my own trauma doesn't--never, in fact--justify me going out of my way to spew hate, literal hate, towards people just because of a fictional ship. Anger and frustration about how queer people are treated isn't meant to be channelled into how we treat other real fucking people. Two wrongs don't make a right and I'm proud to say I won't participate in turning fandom into any more of a free-for-all for putting people down just based on their demographic they didn't even choose to be a part of, or what fictional characters click in their head.

Posting as a response to a previous ask.

[damnfandomproblems]

"Gonna have to disagree with 5604…fandom was created by and for POC and queer people, so it’s understandable to be cautious around content that caters to cisheteronormativity. Some people take it too far I guess, but it’s valid to be protective of something you use to find relief from your oppressors, especially when said oppressors try to weasel their way into the spaces you’ve made for yourselves and others. Sort of like the “you don’t belong here, make your own space” but then “why are you excluding us” image."

As a queer "poc" (bisexual Tlingit/native "american"), fandom was created mostly by white moms and their teenage white daughters. Reading any fanfic pre 2016 makes this painfully clear. POC and queers, however, have risen in numbers in fandom spaces and make up a good portion of it nowadays and fandom now is one of the most inclusive places you can find. Most slash malexmale fics were written by white women, not queer poc. fandom was made by white moms sharing star trek fanfiction with their other white mom friends. fandom was popularized by white teenage girls writing and posting fanfiction and fanart to old now gone fansites, DeviantArt, live journal, ff.n, Wattpad, quotev, hell, even too YouTube in a slide format using a bunch of stolen fanart and screenshots with their fanfic captioning the images. Fandom, I would say, is the one of the very few places you can trust most of the white women/people in general to not be assholes/oppressive/bigoted/whatever word applies/[insert]/etc. They didn't weasel their way into our space, they made it, and offered us cookies when we came knocking on the door. Literally the only time I don't feel instant distrust of cishets white if if I see they're a fangirl/boy/etc

"Sometimes straight couples being depicted can be traumatic for queer fandom folks, and that needs to be respected. Don’t tell people to off themselves because of ships even if the hatred is valid, but also realize that queer people aren’t obligated to respect your cishet ships."

... this is bait, isn't it? that or you are horribly missing the term "traumatic" out of place of great ignorance. Is walking outside and seeing a het couple also traumatic then? Also, no one is required to respect anything? just don't be an asshole?? if you don't like something to the point even seeing is "traumatic", don't look/interact with it??

Posting as a response to a previous ask.

[damnfandomproblems]

759926532106059776

Having trauma from a certain group of people, and hatred towards that group of people, is hella different from actively behaving like a rotting pustule towards any individuals from that group who never even harmed you personally, or even ideologically because no group is a monolith. Having trauma doesn't excuse bad behavior. Period. I thought that was basic knowledge, but okay, I guess suddenly it's okay when certain groups of people do it in spaces where everyone just wants to get along? 🙄 Your demographic doesn't make you immune to being an asshole.

Posting as a response to a previous ask.

[damnfandomproblems]

5604: hey um. The thing about fandom is that it’s for people interested in a piece of art. It’s a community of people with a common interest, it was NEVER a community formed for a specific demographic. Let people ship what they want to ship and don’t gatekeep people from fandoms based on their gender of sexuality

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[damnfandomproblems]

The vast VAST majority of the people you declare as "oppressors" are just regular folks, they aren't in some ivory tower evilly scheming to make your life hard.

I'm assuming this is in response to this ask and am posting as such.

[damnfandomproblems]

5604

I think the main takeaway from this, or one of the takeaways, is that shipping is not activism. Repeat: shipping is NOT ACTIVISM.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[damnfandomproblems]

sorry for yet another response to that response that was like "Gonna have to disagree with 5604…fandom was created by and for POC and queer people, so it’s understandable to be cautious around content that caters to cisheteronormativity."

But like, having cis people in fandom does not automatically make it dangerous. And het ships does not mean they are trying to oppress queer people.

"Don’t tell people to off themselves because of ships even if the hatred is valid, but also realize that queer people aren’t obligated to respect your cishet ships." if this was said about m/m or f/f ships people would be angry. Then again, there already are people who tell others to off themselves because those people don't like some m/m or f/f ships.

Fandom is not only for queer people. Fandom is for everyone. Yes, that includes cis people. Fandom should welcome anyone. If queer people are allowed, so are cis people.

Posting as a response to a previous ask.

[damnfandomproblems]

5604 “straights are traumatic for queer people anon”: Another really harmful thing about this I didn’t saw anybody mention yet: Now, it would be worse enough if people like that “just” harass cishets shipping cishet ships, don’t get me wrong. But this is not even what is happening most of the time. Most ships people get harassed for for “ewww oppressive cishets eww heteronormative wah wah” are just ships between a man and a woman whose sexuality was never mentioned one way or another. They could indeed be cishet (and are very likely intended this way, but hey, interpretation is a thing), or they could be bi/pan, or ace, or maybe even nonbinary in a subtle way. And quite a lot of these ships are canonically bi, ace or involving nonbinary people, but just don’t look stereotypical queer.

And yeah, cishet shippers get harassed, but quite a lot of these people aren’t even actually cishet, but just queer in a way these harassers can easily erase so that it seems justified to harass them.

My last OTP got me and other shipper intensely harassed as “gross cishets forcing their heteronormative patriarchal cishet ship on the queer fandom”. The ship? Bi woman and ambiguously queer man, both disabled, her a POC. The shippers? Majority queer. Claiming evil cishets was just a convenient way to harass us without getting repercussions.

So yeah there always is a huge lot of bigotry towards “lesser stereotypical” queers in stuff like this too, because for them, someone who is for example bi is the exact same as a cishet, they just wouldn’t say it.

Posting as a response to a previous ask.

[damnfandomproblems]

I just want everyone to know that immediately after that insane ask about "you're all misunderstanding me about 5604" on my dash was a post that said "This too shall pass, but holy fuck" and it felt really appropriate.

Posting as a response to a previous ask.