#fander discourse

[moldy-lemons]

Okay, look. I’m not that much of a fan of Thomas anymore but even when I was—-it was seriously uncomfortable to watch fans make open comments (SEXUAL COMMENTS) about this man’s body over and over again and disguise it as a compliment.

He seems to be uncomfortable with it at times (see above) and addresses it in a manner that’s lighthearted—but nobody takes it seriously. We get it, the guy has an ass. Sometimes (SOMETIMES) he shows it off, which is okay, his choice.

But when the dude’s just trying to make a funny video about superheroes, it is so not appropriate to go ‘whoa extra leg’ ‘whoa bro is packin’ ‘id tap that lolol’ ‘he’s sure built for nightwing’ (all actual comments i saw from MINORS). Y’all need to chill out. Do your homework, and leave this guy alone, because some of these comments are borderline sexual harassment and it’s so not okay.

What do y’all think? I’m writing out of annoyance and anger, so a few clear-headed thoughts might do me good.

[spookyspeks]

Fander twitter really is full of entitled brats who bully Thomas every second he does something that isnt about sanders sides even if hes working on those things simultaneously with it huh

Thomas is a content creator who's MORE than just sanders sides but no if he dares to work on anything else he'll be relentlessly bullied and pestered by assholes who have nothing better to do and will never be happy no matter what he does because they've based their entire personalities around hating him (and yet still identify as a fan)

[clydesavage-thefox147]

Dear...everyone who's been confused about Patton and Virgil's animosity...

According to Joan back in a past YouTube Membership live stream, They confirmed that something happened with Virgil and Patton between the likes of "Dealing with Intrusive Thoughts" and "Are There Healthy Distractions". That explains why Virgil was so snappy at him during their viewing of Frozen. We don't exactly know yet what that "something" was, but I'm only assuming some kind of argument or discourse. I mean, It was at the time where Patton was being strict on Thomas which caused moral panic and when Virgil wanted some boundaries because of Patton's coddling, babying nature towards him. Also, Patton being with Janus more as of recent was/is just the cherry on top of all this.

Also, I know some of y'all are saying "oh well Joan's not really a part of the story writing anymore so it's not canon" Well, Joan has recently with Thomas confirmed that Healthy Distractions, FWSA and WTIT are all canonical episodes because they were so plot heavy. Also, a lot a fanders have been confused as to why Virgil is so cross with Patton and why his demeanor changed towards him so quickly in Healthy Distractions, so leaving it unanswered wouldn't be a good move. Plus, up to WTIT which was the last episode Joan was there to write, Virgil still had issues with Patton as seen in the endcard.

In the Plushie Asides if you count that, Logan was genuinely shocked by how Virgil was even siding with Patton at that moment..showing and hinting that Logan must be aware of what happened..whether he was there as a mediator, a witness or overheard somethings. That episode was released in 2022 after Joan left. So, Thomas has kept up this plot line seemingly(He even confirmed Joan left notes on certain plot points going forward).

I'm just hoping we see this off screen moment mentioned or flashbacked to. I really wanna know what happened. I might go into further detail about their animosity at some point but I'm not sure when so take this brief summary for now.

[olliedollie1204]

it's not that i think fanders necessarily start discourse about everything, it's just that we give so many opinions whenever anything happens that there's going to be conflict. the commentary when thomas got a new couch in his living room gave us 3 solid days of posting

[edupunkn00b]

Wait, there are Fanders who weren’t/aren’t theatre kids?

^^ this is our patron saint of logical discourse, after all. We’re pretty flamboyant.

as a theater kid i fear the thomas sanders fandom is unaware of how unhinged theater kids are. i base this off of the fact that many headcanons aren’t unhinged enough. consider that he has probably helped commit multiple OSHA violations in his theater. he’s had to die on stage. kiss people on stage. theater kids have a level of energy no one else does. we are dedicated like it’s a sport. he’s unhinged. he’s spent hours after school singing, dancing and monologuing into the middle of the night. he’s the one at dennys belting show tunes after.

[ironwoman359]

Hey uh can y oh please tell me what that discourse bit is about? I keep seeing it and others but I have absolutely no context and no one will explain it to me. Thank you, if you do decide to help me out

I mean, if you’re asking about anything that’s happened OFF tumblr, the stuff going on over on TikTok and Twitter? I have absolutely no idea what any of that is about. The stuff that I have reblogged and posted about on here though is a little simpler to explain.

So Thomas just posted the Virgil skirt pics, right? Not too long after, somebody sent him this ask:

The posts that I reblogged and made recently were referencing this. 

[brandstifter-sys]

Dear Young Fanders,

I hate to have to say it, but you don't have any right to send anon hate, or scold strangers on anon for some minor offense, like mistagging or disliking a character or a ship or a headcanon. Sometimes the "folly" is an accident, sometimes it's because tumblr is awful. Sometimes it's because a fandom is not a hive mind. That's a human being you're attacking over something insignificant.

You are allowed to dislike, even hate, a certain character and still be in a fandom. You are allowed to dislike different ships. You are allowed to have your own feelings, thoughts, and opinions. And yes, so are the other people around you. You can tailor your own experience in fandom without marring someone else's. Your feelings are not universal, don't try to shame someone for diverging from your opinion.

Fandom is not a hive mind. Fandom is a bunch of people from different backgrounds and age groups. There are people who are 10 years old, people in their 20s, and even people who are older than that. There are going to be differing opinions, and you'll find that it's better to let it go and move on.

Signed,

A fandom elder who's this close to leaving this trainwreck

[wispandwhispers]

it’s official. i’m the only poc in the fandom who doesn’t know what the fuck is going on with the @/altruistic-skittles drama

[patt-off]

no becuase have you though to realize that thomas is a freaking person who has a life outside of youtube?

and are you going to even acknowledge that he makes other videos???? he’s got a series that updates monthly, a cartoon therapy episode in the making, a music video that came out yesterday, and a video that came out, and he did a whole freaking livestream not that long ago

not to mention the continuous stream of shorts that he still keeps up with doing (and he’s been doing shout out sunday’s for like 8 years now)

the guy does a lot and if you haven’t realized, pof was over 50 minutes long and the next video is a freaking 4 part finale?! obviously that’s gonna take some time

did you see all the components to wtit?? that rightfully took alot of work i mean look at it.

like this guy has a life, makes a lot of content as it is and y’all expect him to just get something like that done in like what? a month??

in case you havent noticed, the show isn’t some cute little blogs anymore, it’s a freaking quality tv show. the only difference is mainstream media has teams to do everything, the entire film process is done by totally different professionals and is written in masses. thomas (and everyone else) are the only ones doing everything. thomas is literally the only actor ffs

like, i for one, fucking hate waiting for stuff, i love content as much as the next guy but at least i acknowledge that this kind of thing isn’t right to expect out of literally just some dude on the it internet

cuz he’s quite literally just some dude who wants to make people laugh

but that’s what other fandoms are for, you’re not obligated to stick around, and there’s no rule stating you can only be in one fandom at a time, that’s not a thing.

you’re not obligated to stick around, just like he’s not obligated to even keep the series going, getting pissed over something like that isn’t going to do you any good.

and as for the patreon thing

i for one, didn’t only get patreon to financially support thomas. livestreams are jsut freaking fun and im an over the top fan so. but considering my subscribe predates sasi itself i feel it makes sense to support a guy tho.

you do also realize that his only job is youtube tho right? boycotting his patreon isn’t the same as boycotting something like disney+ because that’s essentially a good part of his income.

and plus you say it’s not doing anything but jsut take a look at wtit again for me. you think all of that work didn’t cost money?? you think pof didn’t cost a lot of money to make? you are going to look at an entire episode taking place in a courtroom and think, “yep that didn’t cost money at all” you are going to look at all the newer episodes and see no production difference compared to the older ones??

absolute bullshit

The State of the Sanders Sides Fandom and What to do to Remedy It

I’ve been seeing a lot of people on the dash today talking about Sanders Sides and the, frankly disappointing, lack of content in the past while, and I have to say that I agree.

This might get long, so sorry if it does.

Starting off, Thomas and his team have no obligation to create content for us. It is their job, and they have the right to create what they want, when they want to do so. However, as content creators, they have taken on a type of responsibility to do that job and create content. The last official Sanders Sides episode was two years ago. The last Asides video was seven months ago. The last Cartoon Therapy was three years ago.

There was a Youtube Membership and is currently a Patreon, the money from which was intended to be used to fund these videos and create this content faster. This means that this lack of content is being crowdfunded by the people who, now, are paying to see this content. Why should fans be donating this money if they are not seeing the content from it? Of course, there are other rewards gained from the Patreon, like livestreams, script access, and more, but at the end of the day people would rather the content be out sooner then have all of the extra things. 

Furthermore, remember the Animated Mad Libs Storytime? And how Thomas’s team either did not pay the artists a fair wage, the agreed upon wage, or the wage at all? The team, as far as I know, did not apologize and the creators did not end up getting their money or justice.

We were told that they would get a larger team to be able to release content faster. They got the larger team, but the content did not speed up. We were told that they would start making Asides to be able to release lighthearted content not tied to the main plot. They have started releasing Asides, but all of it ties to the main plot and one (Working Through Intrusive Thoughts) is heavy enough to be a main episode at the end of the day. We were told that the Patreon would help pay for the team to work faster. They have the Patreon, but we have not seen the content coming out any faster.

The fandom is dying. I think most people reading this understand that.

We cannot demand more content, but we can hold this team accountable for their false promises and downright lies about what they will do.

We have a right to be upset, all these years into these lies.

So, what can we do?

We do NOT target or harass anybody on the team. That is the worst thing you can do, and it does not help anything.

We do NOT blindly accept their excuses anymore. Waiting seven months for a twenty-minute video is not normal. Waiting two years for a forty-minute video is not normal. We need to stop acting like it is.

We CAN, but SHOULD NOT, wait. Which is what we have been doing, and it obviously sends no messages to the team but complacency. 

We CAN stop giving them money through the Patreon. It’s clear that the money people have been giving is not helping or doing anything. They do not need it, and if they did they would be fulfilling their promises.

We CAN get upset. We are allowed to be upset right now, and the past many contentless years of this.

As a fandom, as a community, we all MUST hold this team accountable. We MUST understand that they are not working for us anymore, so we have to talk about this and address this together. Let the team know that we are dissatisfied with this right now.

They do not owe us content, but they do need to remember that we are the ones that have kept this community alive. We are the ones who pay them. We are the ones who have kept them relevant.

And so they should not be giving us these lies about where out money is going.

@softestvirgil, because I know that you have been talking about some of this recently, and you have a far larger reach in the fandom then I do.

[izzyfandoms]

You know what, I'm gonna say it. I think some people are being too harsh with their criticisms of Thomas and the video being delayed

Like I get being annoyed, I get wanting the content to come quicker, but some people (not everyone! In fact most people and a lot of the complaints are fine) are going too far and it's just coming across as really entitled ngl

Thomas and his team are working hard, they're doing their best, but can't you imagine how long these episodes take to make? It's one guy playing all the characters for a really long video, and then it all has to be edited (which already would take a shit ton of time) and guys we've SEEN that the video is gonna be video games themed ofc that's been taking a while

And there's a pandemic going on oml, ofc the video is late, it's not their fault and Thomas is probably beating himself up over it

We aren't owed content. We aren't paying for them to create Sanders Sides for us

If you buy merch, it's cos you love the series and the characters, it's not cos you're paying for more episodes. If you're a member it's cos you wanna support the team with EVERYTHING they make (not just Sanders Sides) and you wanna see the livestreams, not cos you're paying for Sanders Sides

(And I'm saying this as someone with a ton of merch who is also a member)

We also don't see everything that goes on behind the scenes, we don't see how much time goes into this

A lot of the complaints I've seen are completely valid - it's fine to be annoyed, and it's fine to criticise, it's fine to want videos to come out quicker - but some people are just taking it way too far and I just,,, come on guys shouldn't we be better than that?

If you don't like what Thomas and his team are doing, then leave. No one's making you keep watching

(Please don't start discourse on this post guys, I'm just stating my opinion on this situation and I don't want to get hate)

[mango-shpango]

ngl as a poc it upsets me how many times I've seen this fandom speak over other poc. it really is upsetting and I hope the white people in this fandom who do that learn to stay quiet sometimes

[perfectly-princely-emo-nightmare]

Me: *enters Sanders Sides fandom*

Me: Wow! I’ve been out for an entire week! I wonder what’s been happening.

The fandom: *screaming at each other over discourse and skirts*

Me: Nope nope nope nope *backs out slowly*

[ironwoman359]

I also feel the need to point out that we have NEVER been an unproblematic fandom. One of our biggest problems has actually ALWAYS been seeing this community as Pure and Wholesome and Can Do No Wrong, which then can lead to poor handling of other problems.

Y'all I've been here for SEVERAL years and am by NO means the oldest fander around, not by a long shot. We have always had drama. We have always had problems. We have always struggled with anon hate, bullying, tag policing, purity policing, racism, abelism, poor boundaries with each other and with Thomas, I could go on for awhile, okay?. 

Erase the idea of a perfect fandom from your mind. It does not and will never exist. Making mistakes does not make us as a fandom evil or irredeemable, but it SHOULD serve as a reminder to all that A) we are not perfect, and B) that we can always work to be better.

Geez, first the thing with r*ndomph*ndoms, and now sharing thomas? What happened to us being the most unproblematic fandom? Really disappointed in people rn

I feel like this boils down to people thinking that they are friends with Thomas. People don’t realize that just because the creator for our fandom is accessible and chooses to interact with us and have fun with us, that there still needs to be a healthy distance between us and him. This, and several other instances, stem from far too high a comfort level with a creator.

I don’t want to shame anyone repeatedly or go on a witch hunt here, but we need to all remember that we are his fans. Not friends. It isn’t even almost our place to do personal things like this.

[ironwoman359]

Wtf is wrong with you? None is the sides are manipulative

Why, I agree 100% with you, anon! When I look at the actions of the sides except for one I do not see manipulation. I see represented parts of an individual that are sometimes at odds with themselves. None of the sides except for one are manipulative towards each other or towards Thomas on purpose. So when I hear people say things like “Patton is such a manipulative character” after SvS or POF or “Virgil is so toxic, look how he manipulates the others” after Embarassing Phases, I feel the urge to point out how if their behavior is your threshold for manipulation?? Then you have no choice but to label every side as manipulative when you look at how they treat each other when trying to get their points across. I never said that I thought they were manipulative except for one. Saying that they except for one really aren’t at all was kiiiiinda the whole point of that post?

And anyway, this is a fictional series, and most of the characters are not full people, and thus the way they treat Thomas (and to an extent, each other) are not subject to the same scrutiny as the way real people treat each other in real life. I still wouldn’t call him manipulative, but if Patton were a human person who was friends with Thomas and he was telling him some of the things he does, then I would at least say “hey man, that’s overstepping your boundaries as a friend there.” 

This fandom has a problem with purity culture, in the way it views the show, its characters, Thomas, and each other, and while we don’t do this specific thing so much anymore, we used to have a big problem with overusing/misusing the word ‘toxic.’ This character is toxic, this person is toxic, this fandom is toxic, etc. I actually hate that word now because of how this fandom tried to use it back in 2018, but that’s not the point here. The pOINT is that we are doing the same thing now with the word “manipulative,” and while some are more morally grey than others, none of the sides (by my interpretation of canon) in their current states of character development are toxic, and ONLY ONE IS MANIPULATIVE. AND IT’S NOT THIS GUY

IT’S THIS ONE

AND GUESS WHAT, THAT IS OKAY. I know we love to stan our snek, and this is nOT Janus hate or even “Janus Critical” or whatever we’re calling it now, from a storytelling standpoint in the show he is an ANTAGONIST. ANTAGONISTS DO BAD THINGS SOMETIMES! He’s getting more accepted, sure, but that is a SLOW process that if you actually look at the end of POF it should be obvious it is a process that he is NOT finished with yet, and just because sometimes he is Right about what Thomas should do doesn’t mean that what he did in the courtroom and especially on that stage in CLBG wasn’t manipulative as hell. He’s deception. Of COURSE he’s manipulative sometimes!!! And that’s fine! I’m not saying we should cancel this damn character because he does morally grey (or even, gasp, bad) things sometimes! What I really don’t have patience for is cancelling other characters who have done FAR LESS and using the word “manipulative” to justify it when turning a blind, forgiving eye to the oNE SIDE IN THE SHOW who has manipulated the others on purpose. 

I’m not saying you have to like Patton or Virgil or whoever. Lord knows I’m not saying you can’t stan Janus, ffs, it’s a web series, you can like and dislike whoever you want in it! And if you interpret one of the sides differently than how they’re portrayed in canon THAT IS ALSO FINE! And if “””Unsympathetic””” sides are your jam, then you keep on reading and writing unsympathetic sides, broham, you do you! It’s Fandom! We can explore whatever we want to here! But maybe let’s stop harassing other fans for liking a character that you view, for one reason or another, to be problematic, maybe let’s stop insisting that fanon = canon, and MAYBE let’s not read an opinion piece and then go to that person’s blog and say “what the fuck is wrong with you.” 

[willgrahymn]

I take fander tumblr for granted. Like there’s definitely still issues that pop up but at least y’all aren’t fander twitter 💕

[thisaccisdead]

every fandom has always been bad and always will b i learned this when i was in a rlly small fandom that i thought was "the only good pure kind fandom uwu" and then s2 of the show rolled around and ppl were like "hey ur not allowed to complain abt the racism and bury yr gays trope bcuz we're a nice fandom !!". allthis to say "nice fandom" is not a thing; listen to ppl critiquing you and dont call them 'mean' for it; and also for ur own mental health the best way to experience fandom imo is to create/rb the kinda content u like and interact w the ppl u like and block ppl who post dumb shit or wont respect u