#fanbroing

[saurongorthaur9]

The ROP trolls and antis seem to really be showing their true colors (ie that they don't actually know the real Tolkien lore) this time around. Like, there were some legitimate criticisms for S1. I had quite a few reservations about S1. And I'm sure S2 won't be perfect, but the troll complaints are getting more and more ridiculous the more I see.

But I think the most ridiculous one I've seen so far is one that I've seen several times in the last twenty-four hours: that they made Sauron too complex of a character.

After spending S1 complaining that the characters are too one-dimensional, now the problem is that they made the villain too interesting :/

I've seen multiple people ranting that Sauron should be a one-note villain of all-consuming evil and that they are trying to make evil sympathetic and misunderstood. And I'm just like, have you ever even cracked open the Silmarillion??? Do you actually know what "misunderstood" means? Showing him struggling with whether or not to repent is not "misunderstood"; it's character development, and something Tolkien explicitly says that Sauron went through at the beginning of the Second Age.

As far as complaining that Sauron should be a one-note villain (apart from the fact that Sauron isn't a one-note villain in the Silm), having interesting, complex characters - including villains - is simply good storytelling. Why would you not want interesting, complex characters?

I'm getting the feeling that the antis are starting to panic a little bit, because this season is getting more positive attention and now there's a dedicated fan base who are pushing back and standing up to defend it now that it's getting out of its growing pains. In any case, the repeated criticism I keep seeing of it are spiraling into increasing levels of ignorance of Tolkien's lore and sheer ridiculousness.

[engagemythrusters]

ezra has blue hair and pronouns.

[kyliafanfiction]

"The NCR is repeating pre-war America!"

Yeah, totally. That's *absolutely* what's going on. Yup. Yeah. Yuuuup. They're just a 1 to 1 to 2077 America. Nothing more nuanced.

[frumfrumfroo]

So if the Rey movie gets made and it bombs. Do you reckon DLF will be like "I guess no one likes SW anymore, better sell it to Sony." Then later having some of their minions show up on the set of multiple on screen Reylo Novel adaptations just to let one rip (farting) before being roughly escorted off the set? Based on some of their so called employees immature behavior on Twitter, I wouldn't put it passed them.

They'd probably just pivot away from feature films entirely, triple down, and focus on churning out lower cost streaming-exclusive series tailored to the whiniest parts of the fanbase while also trying to come up with another non-human gimmick character to aggressively market to children.

As little actual storytelling as possible, as much TFM fanservice as possible, and no commitment to anything.

[harrowscore]

Your point about the only thing Rey people being interested in was her relationship with Kylo and how that paralleled the Luke/Vader relationship is interesting. It would have added a lot of depth to the story if they'd been twins. Rey goes for the kiss. "No Rey, I'm your brother." lol. Awkward. Insanely awkward.

Hey, sorry but since I ship them and SW has already had enough soap opera-like "i'm your secret twin" last-minute revelations for my tastes I prefer them to be a romantic enemies to lovers pair - something that in SW (at least the movies; the EU was a bit different with Luke/Mara Jade and Revan/Bastila etc.) has never been seen before, so it adds an element of originality in what is basically Poor Man's OT. Same themes as Luke+Vader (love and compassion as a redemptive force) but not make it a family thing, please. That would have been uselessly redudant imo. What I meant with the Luke+Vader parallel is they're a similar brand of "the protagonist shares their most important relationship with an antagonist who turns to the Light thanks to their influence; said dynamic also challenges the main character's naive and black/white beliefs on evil&good, it challenges them to see the world under a different light". Rey didn't need to be a literal Skywalker, Kylo/Ben could have been enough for that as "one half of the protagonist/one side of the coin" - also because he has had to live with that legacy/lovable dysfunctional family for all his life while Rey struggled in a desert and Luke was "a myth" to her. She doesn't even know them; Vader&co. mean nothing to her (that's one of the many reasons the Rey Palpatine revelation feels so hollow - are we even sure she knew what a Palpatine was? lmao). The Vader Is Luke's Father plot works so well because he's the antagonist Luke has been fighting since Film 1, and Luke has been idolizing his dead dad since forever. This forces the kid to grow up - his world shatters, so he has to find a new sort of belief code. Similar to what her relationship with Kylo does (or should do) to Rey, but in a romantic key. Maybe a romance that redeemed the original star-crossed space lovers (Anidala) - this is all about Vader's legacy after all. In fact, it's all about that and how Leia couldn't (understandably) cope with it, and her son getting targeted by Snoke. Anakin's ghost should have definitely made an appearance in TROS and had an overdue talk with his grandson and his daughter but alas, "Palpatine somehow returned" but Anakin can't be bothered about his family I guess lol (that's deeply OOC of him - I'm saying this as a fan of the character).

But I agree with your point about Rey never failing/fucking things up/needing others' help. That's one of the reasons the audience feels like she's never really matured and changed. She needed to face her own demons, not someone else (specifically a man)'s. The angst about her parents abandoning her and treating her like shit should have sufficed: if she's shown her parents were Good People All Along and they were really coming back for her - well, that only reinforces her childish beliefs and never really puts her in the position to challenge them. Same as if Luke's dad had been a good guy, like he dreamed, and not literally Satan's right hand man. That's How To Write Protagonists 101 but I don't think Disneylucas ever cared about creating a somehow coherent story.

[reachexceedinggrasp]

How do you feel about Reylo these days? Do you still read fic? (I know I have a similar taste to you about Reylo fic, which makes finding it hard to begin with). Also, have you rewatched TLJ since TROS? I tried doing it but it hurt too much. Hope you are doing well, still love reading your old posts and your new posts as well.

I haven't read any fic in a while, but I certainly will again. I'll always love the ship, but as you say, it's pretty difficult to find fic that has everything important going for it set in the canon universe. I've read mountains and mountains of reylo AUs that I enjoyed, but when it comes to canon verse, the pickings are slim. I got frustrated and depressed about it, so I haven't been looking lately.

I haven't, not in full. It's going to be a long time.

Thank-you! 💖

[theemmtropy]

"Omg the hallway scene in Rogue One was so cool-" SHUT UP!!!!! SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!!!!!!!! One of the best, most nuanced Star Wars properties in the last 20 years and you reduce it to a lightsaber battle?????? The most unique crew of rebels did not die for you to only talk about the last five minutes of the movie goddamnit!!!

[beanarie]

did i really see someone mad that the witcher didn't leave the women out of the story for the entirety of season 1. bro

[animentality]

I think it's hilarious when cishet anime fanbros act as if shippers are the worst thing to ever happen to their anime.

Shippers keep your fucking fandom alive. You arguing over which character is more powerful than the other has minimal financial influence, if any at all.

The real commercial and sentimental value comes from afabs and lesbians who dedicate their time to drawing fanart and writing fanfiction and making fan communities and fan edits and obsessive rants about a character they're crushing on.

power scalers are a drop in a bucket. shippers and fangirls do the real work. just like women in this world do the real work to keep society from collapsing, it's the goddamn horny shippers and Gojo gooners who keep the lights of a fandom on.

[neyafromfrance95]

If there is actually a kiss it has to be with Sauron. It can work if it’s a vision or the temptation (to not piss off the fanbros too much). We know Celeborn isn’t in this season. All other options don’t make any sense. Unless they are trolling us and the kiss is not romantic, and its only a kiss on the cheek or the hand from one of Galadriel’s friends. If it’s actually Elrond I’m going to be pissed 😂

yeah, it'd be funny (and underwhelming) if the kiss turns out a friendly cheek kiss or smtng.

the only reason i still consider elrond as a possibility, more or less, is bc we've seen a shot of him touching galadriel's face in one of the promos. maybe holding onto nenya corrupts him for a moment and tarnishes his intentions? idk.

on the other hand, there is simply 0 romantic undertones underlying their dynamic. not just that but it would overcomplicate galadriel's relationships. i could see them replacing celeborn with elrond for convenience and erasing celebrian, but the thing is that celeborn's existence in trop canon is already confirmed and he will probably appear even if near the finale. so it would overcomplicate the romantic mix.

now i hope celeborn appears as late as possible. i personally don't see celebrian having a role in this story as it would still be too weird with how they're developing galadriel and elrond's relationship. i can't imagine them making elrond babysit his future wife while celeborn is unavailable for some reason and galadriel is out there ruling or mind-skyping her dark lord mistress 😆 simply her presence would be a reminder that elrond, her mother's slutshaming bestie, is the babydaddy of her (several) children and that would make the general audiences quite uncomfortable. also, no celebrian would mean that galadriel and celeborn being tight is not a point in the show, yk?

so the kiss would make the most sense if it's with someone they have established as galadriel's primarily "romantic" dynamic (even if they don't call it that, galadriel x sauron *is* romantic) and will continue to be one till the end of the show.

or it's a shock kiss with adar which for some reason makes sense to me as well. would be really controversial and i imagine the intention would be to piss sauron off which could be fun to watch.

[mswyrr]

On the positive side, I appreciate what Jac achieved here a lot more when I remember that, this very same year, Disney forced Leslye Headland--an irl gay showrunner whose story had two clearly sapphic witch moms who made their daughters themselves without a father--to come out and bow to fanbro bigots who were mad about the "lesbian space witches" by equivocating about whether they were gay or not. It was pretty clear from how Leslye said it that she'd been bullied by her employers at Disney, which was just heartbreaking. (And then the bastards still cancelled her show anyway!! Awful).

I can only imagine how much of the capital Jac had built up with Wandavision's success she had to deploy to get as much as we did get here, and I do appreciate it. The romance, the gorgeous casting of actresses with such chemistry, the full on passionate kiss.

The thematic implications of the story conclusion we got show the influence of mcu's basically -- lifeless, largely meaningless franchise storytelling, which is obsessed with male characters (and always has been), obsessed with youth, etc and while I have the right to respectfully express my dissatisfaction with those, that doesn't make the creatives dealing with this corporate bs bad.

I feel like I would have found it easier to come to this place of making peace with it if people hadn't rushed to scream at sapphic shippers right out of the gate. If I am told my feelings and other peoples' feelings are invalid, I will make the effort to articulate where I am coming from because I am not doing anything wrong here and neither are other people expressing themselves without being unkind to creatives.

[hideokojima]

Huey Emmerich is queer coded, specially femme coded. His emotional volatility, his clothing, and dramatic presentation are all distinctly feminine coded in our culture. As is the hate and mocking he receives. Hence why fanbros really hate him.

i stared at this for like 2 minutes totally speechless

[wald-prinz]

I need a japanese speaking person to tell me what pronouns dragona uses for themselves because I don't trust JoJo fanbros

[mid-nighttiger]

its sooo funny to me when ppl are like 'star wars bad bc it is only ever status quo western mythology that never set out to do anything new' bc i instantly know that their understanding of star wars comes from the exact same youtube star wars fanbros (tm) that they hate so much. like, oh yes, the star wars that only set out to appease fans, that's totally why so many ppl hated the prequels when it came out for daring to make their beloved darth vader just a young man full of fear whose fatal flaw was his inability to let go, rather than the strong macho villain they'd built up in their heads. the star wars that glucas refused to change after test audiences for the prequels disagreed with his message. the star wars that i still hear stupid arguments all the time about bc to so many western audiences, emotional regulation and acceptance of the natural changes in life are apparently like the worst, most alien life philosophies to practice

[tarisilmarwen]

Rebels Rewatch: "Iron Squadron"

Unexpected Sato backstory??? And other fun things!

Oh hey, the rare Star Wars planet that is not one single biome!

My son looking cutely contemplative. :)

Hera's the first to mention that Sato has "connections" here, and my brain automatically assumed family even before the reveal.

This freighter the kids are using is a YT-2400, which apparently was kind of a big deal to Legends fans because of some dude named Dash Rendar. This is not my area of lore expertise so I won't comment on that, but I will observe that if fanbros had an expectation of seeing that guy in this episode then it makes more sense why they got pissy when it was revealed the crew was upstart plucky kids instead.

Still, adult Star Wars fans really have got to stop mindlessly hating on teen/kid characters.

"They're attacking the Empire head on!" I mean, y'all have a Corellian freighter too and you do that all the time. I guess the YT-2400 looks way more civilian grade to them, no obvious modifications.

Why is Kanan in the turret, guys? Yeah yeah I know he has the Force to help him "see" but this is just... silly.

Hera still operating under the impression that it's a civilian ship. I mean technically it is but also you're in the Rebellion Hera, we literally just had an Imperial ace talk about how y'all use whatever ship that flies a few episodes ago lol.

You know the trick with the cargo crates is actually pretty clever. The YT-2400 obviously has very little actual armament aside from the one top gun, very easy to lull your enemy into thinking you're harmless.

Lol Zeb accurately calling that Iron Squadron is "a ship-full of Ezras".

I haven't commented on it before but sometimes Ezra just sits like such a typical teenager, using the furniture in all the wrong ways.

Big fan of the slightly vulnerable note in Sato's voice here.

Lol Ezra and Sabine's faces here.

"If you like a junk pile." "Be nice." A+ adorable banter moment, love it.

There goes Chopper antagonizing other droids again.

Mart is surly and grumpy and looks like a shaggy kitten and I love him. <3

Gooti trying to diffuse the tension in the room by offering waffles. Relatable.

Mart honestly sounds just a bit like Dark Side Drunk Ezra, the undernotes of anger in his voice, insisting that they have things under control and don't need help. Honestly it was kind of an amazing and interesting idea to put Ezra alongside a bunch of (slightly) younger kids a few rungs back on the character development ladder to contrast how much more mature he's gotten.

Mart confusing different Imperial ships for a Star Destroyer is also a great running gag. Sabine gets so annoyed lol.

Lothal still looking relatively pretty.

I would really like to praise Lars Mikkelson for making me creeped out by the most innocuous of scenes with Thrawn, all the man has to do is comment on Iron Squadron being interesting and mildly insult Konstantine and my skin crawls, ggughhhh.

Thrawn setting up lesser officers for failure again.

Relating to deliberately casting Ezra as the more mature one, it even extends to how they keep posing him this episode. He's not more than a year or two older than the Iron Squadron kids and yet he feels so much older in his bearing and manner of speaking.

The shoulder nudge and the way Sabine goes, "Hmm?" makes me think they're improving this on the fly.

I've joked before about this looking like a cute family photo but it's still true.

Spaceparents be skeptical lol.

Chopper just whacking the panel with hammer. XD

"This might be just a planet to you, but it's our home!" Hoo boy, that's the heart of it isn't it? Ezra has been through this exact thing. So he understands the instinct to dig in and fight back. But like Mon Mothma would later remind him in Season Four, you can't save every planet right away. Sometimes you have to retreat and regroup, and come back stronger later.

Sometimes you have to leave home.

It doesn't mean you don't fight. It just means you don't let your fear of loss make you stupid.

Once again leaning on that message of "How we choose to fight."

This is purely in the realm of headcanon but Mart's obsession with suicidally charging a Star Destroyer makes me think that might be how his father died, or something similar to it at least.

Gooti and Jonner sharing a look like, "Uhhhhhh maybe they have a point about our ship being way too small to take on the Empire alone."

Yeah, no, I'm sticking with my idea that Mart has just a little bit of a death wish and wants to go out taking revenge against the Empire that killed his father.

Precious little rage bean. <3

Sabine reminding Ezra not to get in trouble with Hera for disobeying orders again.

It's okay Sabine, he's learned that lesson lol.

Subtle animation appreciation moment: The sheer floof to Mart's hair. I can't believe how much volume it feels like has, just from the way it shifts around his head.

"I am all the family he has left." :((((

STILL SO MAD THAT WE NEVER GOT MART'S REACTION TO SATO'S SACRIFICE AT THE BATTLE OF ATOLLON.

Right, continuing with the Mart-is-literally-Ezra-from-a-couple-seasons-prior parallels, Mart's disbelief and delight at the Ghost coming back for him.

And Konstantine makes a really stupid decision in the effort to... idk, give himself more glory? He literally has enough ships and firepower to blow both freighters to bits and he insists on this showy mine trap move.

This is why Thrawn sent you by yourself, pal, he wanted to see if you'd croak.

Lol the Ghost took a potshot at the light cruiser as it was passing.

Chopper continuing in the grand habit of bullying other droids.

Ahhhhhhh Sato came! He was too far away to be able to get there on time and he came anyway!

HIS FACE.

Yeah uh, Konstantine? You should have known the mine plan would never have worked as soon as you lost signal contact with it. Also it's really stupid to let them get the ship that close to your cruiser before you try to detonate it.

Mart's little "...Oh." expression. <3 A+ running gag payoff, no complaints.

HNNNNNGGHHHHH YOU CAN'T JUST IMPLY THAT THRAWN AND SATO HAVE SOME KIND OF CONNECTION AND THEN NOT FOLLOW UP ON THAT. At least let us get some Sato backstory out of it, c'mon.

Thrawn calling Konstantine just to rub the embarrassment in.

THIS IS WHY HE DISOBEYED YOUR ORDERS AT ATOLLON DUDE. MAYBE NEXT TIME DON'T HUMILIATE YOUR UNDERLINGS BY DELIBERATELY SENDING THEM INTO SITUATIONS YOU KNOW THEY'LL BUNGLE.

Aw frick.

Don't think about the Kanan-Ezra parallels, don't think about the Kanan-Ezra parallels, don't think about the Kanan-Ezra parallels--

They're adorable.

And we couldn't let the episode close without getting one last gag in by way of Chopper rolling up to R3 and smacking him for no damn reason lololol.

I unironically love this episode and these kids. <3 Fandom was way too mean about this episode, why do y'all hate fun?

There are a few things introduced in this episode that really should have been picked back up and followed through on and yeah, a couple moments are a smidge cringe. But the humor is overall solid and sue me Mart Mattin is precious and I love the depth his existence adds to Sato. AND I WANTED SO MUCH MORE I DON'T CARE THAT I'M THE ONLY ONE WHO LOVES THEM I NEEDED MORE IRON SQUADRON.

*ahem* I'm normal about this episode. Soooo normal.

[nostalgia-tblr]

whiny twitter fanbros must be defeated, i cannot go back to the dark days when someone could say "this character is a man" and be confident that they would not be surprised by her next appearance.