#except braime sex and braime everything

[robertpatinsons]

↖ This user is still crying over Jaime Lannister.

[ladyandtheghost]

Reason #23: Ambiguity and (Duck-) Decoys - Why we have every right to question everything we have been “told” in Season 7

In “real life” we tend to go by the “duck test” (”If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck.”) but in fiction we rely on the way something is presented to us by the author or film maker to denote one thing or the other. 

In good fiction, plots and characters are ideally presented as multi-faceted, complex and “ambiguous”, i.e. enabling different ways of interpretation and also enabling twists and changes throughout the story (e.g. character can develop in different directions, and plots can take surprising turns known as “plot twists”) 

So far, so good. 

Then why is it that we are suddenly supposed to all turn our brains off and accept everything we have been presented or “told” up to Season 7 of GoT as gospel, as an unquestionable “truth” that is not up for interpretation? 

If D&D tell us in Season 7 that it “looks like a duck” do we automatically have to believe it?

Pretty sure D&D laugh every time they see articles going around pushing the “decoys” they have planted in Season 7

After 7 years of being deceived and “shocked” by Game of Thrones’ twists and turns, how do we react after the penultimate season, heading for the finale?  Have we learned to question the “truths” of one season going into the next?

Exactly...we haven’t.

We still tend to go for the most “obvious”, the most blatantly advertised thing - a bit like magpies, we love to be distracted by the shiny and glamorous, the “badass” moments, explosions and roaring dragons...

When it comes to plot developments and characterisation, though, the show makers are very crafty and careful not to give away too much that can not be retracted later - they “tell” us one thing, yet at the same time “show” us the opposite; they bait and switch, open up possibilities in ALL directions...

What was Littlefinger’s cryptic speech to Sansa all about^^ if not to make us aware that things are almost NEVER as they seem...

Basically, we are being explicitly “told” about one thing and therefore assume that it is exactly as it is being told and assume the characters who tell us these things are telling the truth ---> the Duck (it’s also often the “popular opinion”)

However, when we consider other interpretations of the same thing, it turns out that there is a lot of ambiguity and the “duck” may just be a “decoy” to distract us and set us up for a plot twist...

Examples:

Who or what is the Song of Ice and Fire? 

The Duck/popular opinion: Jon and Dani, because Melisandre said it...and she’s always right...

Ambiguity/other interpretations: Jon himself is the son(g) of ice and fire (the R+L=J reveal yet has to happen on screen); or, it’s literally the title of the chronicle Sam will write about the two great threats to Westeros: ice = the NK; fire=Dani T.

Jon Snow’s motives in S7: 

The Duck/popular opinion: Jon Snow is incapable of lying or playing “the game” because he said so in the dragon pit, and Tyrion said he trusts him and Tyrion is always right! Also, Cersei said that Jon is Ned Stark’s son and she knows Ned Stark’s son would never lie and we know that Cersei is always right..

Ambiguity/other interpretations: Jon is a political player in the game now who has lied before and has lied again to everyone about his allegiances to secure the force of dragon fire for his quest to save the North/Westeros; Jon would absolutely lie and deceive to make sure his family and people are safe and well;

Who is the “Younger, more beautiful Queen”:

The Duck/popular opinion: It can only be Da*nerys, because Margaery is dead; and Cersei thinks it’s Dany and Cersei is always right. Plus, Dani is the fan favourite everyone expects to win and get everything she wanted, so she must be the one to cast Cersei down.

Ambiguity/other interpretations: Sansa Stark who is the dark horse candidate and was there from the beginning with Cersei and has *actually* already taken “all you hold dear” away from Cersei, being the reason why Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen had to die, not to mention unwittingly contributing to their deaths; also from what we saw in the promo pics to S8, Jaime is wearing House Stark armor - Sansa is head of House Stark, so he is fighting for her now. It’s actually becoming quite blantant here... 

Jon Snow’s (Romantic) Endgame: 

The Duck/popular opinion: Da*nerys, because Tyrion told us Jon’s in love with her and Davos said he looked at her boobs, and both Tyrion and Davos are always right! Also because Dani loves Jon, so Jon *must* also be in love with Dani, otherwise it would not be *fair*. There is no way this love could only be on-sided because all other men are in love with Dany so Jon must be, too. And last but not least: they had sex, and we know ALL couples who have sex are endgame and get a HEA)

Ambiguity/other interpretations: Sansa who is Jon’s cousin, not sister; and continuously “shown” together with Jon in situations, scenes and contexts that are blatantly “romantic” - this is also to a lesser degree still possible with Arya, though their relationship was always clear to be a beautiful “sibling bond” and their reunion and interactions happen too late in the show now to be established as equally “ambiguous” as Jon and Sansa’s relationship; or, None of the above because Jon only loved Ygritte and is reunited with her in death - until proven otherwise this is also a valid interpretation; since Jon is canonically “shown” to care deeply for Sansa, to react (even overreact) and as it is confirmed in the scipts that their relationship has an unspoken “subtext” that permeates their interactions, Jon is framed as and “shown” to the viewer as the romantic hero to Sansa’s heroine.  

Sansa Stark’s third and last husband: 

The Duck/popular opinion pt. 1: Tyrion or the Hound, because they were kind to her in King’s Landing and therefore deserve to have her because girls should always give themselves to men who are “nice” to them, no matter whether they are attractive or not...

The Duck pt. 2: virtually any other young male character with the exception of Jon because Jon *belongs* to Dani and fans want them to be endgame, so if Sansa gets another shot at romance, it could be anyone - just not Jon - even candidates who never interacted with her and are already paired up in other ships, i.e. Braime or Gendrya.

Ambiguity/other interpretations: Ned Stark’s words that Sansa should marry someone “brave, gentle and strong” establish Jon as the only possible candidate by way of elimination (Tyrion is not strong; the Hound is not gentle); it also makes zero sense for Sansa to be romantically involved with any of the following: Gendry, Pod or Jaime, she had next to no contact or screen time with them and Gendry is clearly linked to Arya, just as Jaime is linked to Brienne; according to the Ashford Tourney theory, Sansa’s last suitor will be a Targaryen and there is only one male Targaryen left.  

All these plot points and character arcs^^ are open for interpretation one way or another. These characters, their motivations and feelings are deliberately hidden or revealed, “shown” or “not shown” to leave the ultimate ending and the fate of these characters wide open and “ambiguous” until the moment of “revelation”, the moment when it is convenient for the writers of the story to reveal what they are truly thinking, feeling and planning. 

And deep down, people know this to be true. This is how Game of Thrones works. It’s the only way it worked in the past and unless we want the final season to be the “duck” of the previous season - i.e. everything is revealed to be exactly as it has been told to us in S7 - there will be some major turn arounds and twists! 

Not all of the “other interpretations” are equally possible, but they are as valid as the “duck” versions certain fans want to see. Some of the “ducks” might be right, others might just be “decoys”. And it may turn out that none of these^^ ideas by us fans are correct and D&D and GRRM throw us for an even bigger loop than we expected. 

All I know is, it would be a disservice to this great show with it’s fantastic ambiguous characters and plots to assume that the writers have no more tricks up their sleeves and that they already told us exactly what is going to happen in the finale. 

If so, why bother with all the secrecy - if we already saw the endgame on the EW cover? 

[a-shakespearean-in-paris]

Jaime Lannister was Personally Victimized

and so was I. An essay. Subtitled how we were wronged, how he was wronged, how Brienne was wronged, how Braime was wronged, and how years of development was wronged. 

Let’s begin.

Now couple of things: I don’t read the books (plan to now.) so I’m just mostly going off the show and specifically this season, because this season had 2 Jaimes. This is probably not academically sound, or too terribly coherent, but I frankly just want to get my thoughts out there, because I was plump bamboozled with “The Bells.” Not just because it ruined so many seasons of juicy, believable, utterly transformative character development for my personal favorite GOT character, (and many others as well.) but considering the episodes that came before this one, it made zero sense. Because let me tell you, in 8 x 02, this lowkey Braime shipper was turned into major Braime shipper in the span of one hour, and I was literally made to believe they were endgame. Maybe not ride into the sunset with a bunch of kids on Tarth endgame, but made explicitly clear without a shadow of a doubt that Brienne was Jaime’s soulmate, true love...or whatever you want to call it.

All of this... all for this to culminate in him going back to Cersei. All for all those seasons of change for him to revert to season one, episode one, the things I do for love Jaime. From a storytelling perspective, there is no satisfaction. and it makes NO sense. Now of course D&D are all about “subversion,” but what was done to Jaime was not a witty or clever subversion of a redemption arc, but a complete and utter cancellation of all those years of hard work that they put in and that Nik put in, in order to get us to like Jaime. Jeremy Jahns in his review on YouTube said it best: Jaime Lannister was stabbed in the back. Furthermore, what they did to Jaime, (and let’s face it, he’s not the only one in this catastrophe that was personally victimized.) basically posits the really terrible message that “you can’t change your nature or where you came from or be different from your parents. (Which is what happened in Dany’s case. To be clear though, I think the signs were there for her, but it was poorly executed.) 

Either way, such a great message. What happened to Jaime also made no sense from a character perspective. Sure, Mr. I don’t care about innocents. ha. ha. ha. I also totally stabbed a guy in the back when I was 17 because he was going to kill innocents, thus giving me my name and eternal shame. Ha ha ha, look how consistent I am.

You’re not the Jaime Lannister that came to Winterfell. Jaime Lannister died in Brienne’s arms one night and a robot was sent in his place to go to Cersei.

Now this post won’t be talking about the major character inconsistencies (sure you don’t care about innocents Jaime SURE.) or go more into the terrible messages one can get out of this season (and Game of Thrones in general) or go into more detail about how subversion and spoiler culture is ruining good storytelling, but I will say that it reads to me that because such a common theory before Season 8 was that Jaime was going to kill Cersei, D&D thought to themselves hmmm better not do that because that’s what people expect, and in wanting to shock and surprise they invalidated his growth and development by making him die with her. Oh look, D&D. So clever. Yet in stroking your ego you gave the people that once trusted you a taste of ashes. Like...people figuring out where things are going to go is actually GOOD storytelling. 

More so though, this will focus on how the episodes before this one were framed and how the tone was set up. Because watching episode 2, 3, and most of 4...they made me believe Braime was endgame. They really did. Then they turn it around and make me expect it was always Cersei? 

Utter garbage. Jaime was wronged. So was Brienne. that’s another post though. (so is Missandei, and Dany... and heck we can actually talk about who WASN’T wronged this season.) But with the Kingslayer, let’s get started and discuss how everything, literally everything, was set up in favor of Jaime’s redemption and endgame with Brienne, all for it to get, quite literally, squished.

(sorry if that was a bad joke considering)

Now into the meat and potatoes. First of all, let’s talk about Jaime’s look this season. Is he even blonde anymore?

Both he and Tyrion, who symbolically abandoned the Lannister crest seasons ago, sure aren’t sporting that golden blonde look anymore. I mean Tyrion kind of is, but compared to Cersei:

it’s nowhere near it for both these boys. (heck, I would even argue Jaime starts to lose his signature Lannister look when he meets Brienne.) However, if Season 7 Jaime chooses to hide his golden hand, the Jaime that walked into Winterfell with darkish hair, beard, and cute bangs is really, really removed from his Lannister golden lion look. Furthermore, he even said in 8 x 02 his golden lion days are done. Now why. Tell me WHY we do these things in the costuming department all to send him right back to the lioness? WHY

Now I said I wasn’t going to talk about the terrible themes and messages D&D are positing with this season, but I do have to say that considering episode 4, with Jon talking to his sibling-cousins, and Sansa, Arya and Bran’s discussion about not trusting people, and then Jaime going back to Cersei...the writers are really out here saying that family is all that matters. Literally all. And sure, I love my family, I have a great family. But sometimes, like with Jaime and Cersei, families are toxic. Sometimes the bonds you make with others that aren’t your family are more meaningful than the ones you have with blood. Sam and Jon are like brothers even though they’re not related, and Jaime’s bond with Brienne was far, far more meaningful than with Cersei. It was Brienne, not Cersei that elevated him into wanting to be a better man.

But lol, guess not. it’s like what that one guy from Aladdin yells at Aladdin, “YOU WERE BORN A STREET RAT, YOU WILL DIE A STREET RAT” except with Jaime it’s “YOU WERE BORN A LANNISTER YOU WILL DIE A LANNISTER” except Jaime didn’t get an Aladdin moment where he proves the snooty prince wrong--he just regressed and left his Jasmine all alone crying.

Another thing: ignoring the awful character growth invalidation, if Jaime was going to go back to Cersei just to be with her (and not kill her/convince her to stop as a lot of us, including me, thought in 8 x 04), there just wasn’t enough buildup for him to make this change in episode 4 come “The Bells.” He was happy with Brienne, smiling with Tyrion, (above gif) then he gets news from Sansa and he’s like nah I better bounce? I could buy Jaime thinking he has to save Cersei at least for the sake of the baby, an innocent life. I can even buy Jaime with a guilt complex, thinking he doesn’t deserve his happiness with Bri and it’s in his place to be by her side because of family and the things Tywin used to tell him...IDK there’s a lot we could speculate. But I cannot buy that the same man who walked out on Cersei in season 7 and then STAY AT WINTERFELL FOR A MONTH WITH BRIENNE would just be like...in the span of literally five show minutes with no real good explanation go nah it’s always Cersei when he showed it WASN’T. Now call me crazy, but this could have, could have been done in a believable way if we had seen the spiral. but we needed more with Jaime and Brienne, more hints with maybe his struggling to be happy but being guilty and him realizing he did have a child on the way, wanting to do better for that baby than they did to the others. Just a kind of ambiguous glance at Brienne after a session of sex (after their first time, which he was very enthusiastic about BTW) isn’t enough to convey such a drastic one eighty, nor is him looking pensive after another night with Brienne. (and you know they totally had oathsex that night. Bri was naked it looked like and she came out in robe.) 

Now had this happened, I would have still hated it for the terrible message about “always go back to your toxic family,” but it would have played out much more like a Shakespearean tragedy than a random and giant middle finger to Jaime’s arc and Brienne’s character for the sake of a subversion. And heck, I could have forgiven this too if “The Bells” played out differently, and Jaime, realizing Cersei is too far gone, does what we always thought he would do.

*sigh* 

Now let’s talk about him and Brienne and how it was filmed/framed. Now either I’m just naive or a big sap (truth to those statements), but it seemed to me that Braime was purposely filmed as though they were the OTP of this final stretch of Game of Thrones. episode 2-half of 4? this disaster human was all BRIENNE BRIENNE BRIENNE. All for it to go CERSEI CERSEI CERSEI. 

Episode 2 Jaime and episode 5 are not the same person, at all.  FROM THE VERY BEGINNING in episode 2, this man looked at Brienne of Tarth like she was the sun,the stars, his everything, casting glances at her during the whole “trial scene.” Talking to Tyrion, he plump ignored him to stare longingly at Brienne from the ramparts. He knighted her with such beautiful ceremony, and the way they looked at each other after? 

A knighting? A marriage? both? 

these people all think they’re going to die, but instead of lamenting Cersei, “all that’s mattered” at least according to “the bells,” (LOL) Jaime Lannister wants to give Brienne of Tarth this beautiful act of love. and symbolically marry her And then he looks at her and he’s THAT devoted and such a smitten kitten.  

Episode 3. He never left her side during the whole battle. He saved her, then she saved him. Then this shot:

and the other shot of them, fighting side by side? this is literally a fic trope. 

Ok so then the oathsex happens but before it happens, there’s a shot of oathkeeper in Brienne’s room, AKA the symbol of their bond and their love. Then they do it, and I know some people have mixed feelings about it, but I personally liked how it happened, even loved how it happened. It was awkward. Jaime said “I don’t want things growing on me” (though he’s made it pretty clear someone has grown on him, great line.) He liked it when she took charge. He reminded her it was a first time for him too. And then they have a kiss that really, in my opinion, culminates the years of bickering and sexual tension. It was my personal favorite GOT sexy scene, because it felt so real. He sleeps with her and they live like lovers for a month. They ARE lovers for a month or so.

and then he leaves and that look he gave her? 

that was the look of a man who thought he had to give up on his beloved. Not a man who didn’t love this woman anymore. He’s defeated and broken but he is not not in love.

basically, all the clues (and just THIS SEASON) led to Brienne being his true love. Not Cersei. In Jaime choosing Cersei over the woman who he looked at like he saw the sun not only has made the writers make some really unfortunate implications about toxic relationships, but they’ve also said that people can’t change. They’ve completely disrespected Brienne in the process, making her seem like she was just a blip on his radar... when she wasn’t. She was so much more. 

Now maybe all along, Jaime’s arc was not a redemption arc, but choosing who you want to be. Well, if that’s the case, it’s also a bad message. Apparently to D&D you can never change, you’re always doomed to head right back to square one, right back to “the things you do for love” and your toxic roots. If that’s the case then all Brienne was this season was a dangling carrot, a oh look what Jaime could have had if he wasn’t so addicted to Cersei.... sad sad SUBVERSION too bad he’s an ADDICT though! 

there’s no empathy. No respect. 

I have a bad feeling Bri’s pregnant too. And if that’s the case...if all this woman was supposed to do this season was carry the baby of a man who broke her heart just so the wheel wouldn’t truly break? They’re going to make Brienne just a vessel for a baby, making that Jaime’s “redemption?”

so in conclusion: I was not only infuriated because D&D invalidated so much growth in favor of witty subversion that’s not witty and actually tastes like ashes and proports a toxic message, but what was done tonally made no sense, because Braime was filmed like they were “right.” They also wrote a Jaime that’s more akin to Season One Episode One Jaime, and not the one that came to Winterfell because he made a promise.  

I have almost no hope he is alive, D&D said so... but hey stranger things have happened. Nik is being quiet and hasn’t said goodbye to his character like everyone else has whose died already, but maybe he’s just salty/had time to process what happened/just busy right now/ waiting until the last episode to make a final statement. I mean this guy is kind of a troll, but he’s a classy dude and did an amazing job. But if it’s true, if Jaime’s end was to die under a rock, to go deeper and kinda soften this, I do think the Jaime that “died,” wasn’t a Jaime that romantically wanted Cersei, but a Jaime who loved her, finally, like an actual brother and not...the stuff before. There was no kiss, just an embrace. Someone trying to make an ending not so scary. 

either way, I never expected or even wanted Jaime to survive Game of thrones until it freaking looked like that he was for a hot minute and get that good sweet ending with the one woman who he truly loved. But if he died,I wanted something better than what he got. I wanted Jaime to die as someone who did do something for love, but for a love that wasn’t a destructive one, or a regressive one. Not the same love as season one episode one, but a transformative love. Someone who did the right thing. For someone who made such an impact on so many people, he deserved better. 

And I hear rhetoric from some, mostly not on tumblr, that I should  have expected a fan favorite character like Jaime to get a shitty end, because GOT is about subversion. But GOT, above all, has to succeed as a satisfying story for the thing as a whole, and for the characters. It has to make sense. This makes NO sense. And Jaime, such an important character in the mythos, shouldn’t go out like that. Neither should Cersei TBH. She deserved more than standing by a window. 

George. Give Jaime better. Please. Not necessarily a ride into the sunset ending with the one who transformed him, but one where he knows he’s a better person and has been transformed. One where he knows he’s changed for the better.

*peace*

[bettsfic]

nobody asked but here’s how i would have ended it

i’ve been thinking about this for the past 12 hours, how one of the many major failings of the finale was that everything happened out of order, and the stakes were distorted. the entire point of the series is that the night king is the biggest threat, and the politics of the throne seem petty by comparison. to defeat the night king and then battle for the throne is completely illogical. so here’s my attempt to put the events in order and pare down the conflict so that it’s manageable to accomplish in 6 episodes.

first i have to retcon a few things:

euron greyjoy either doesn’t exist or isn’t involved

jaime doesn’t leave for winterfell at the end of s7 (but he is strongly conflicted about it)

cersei isn’t pregnant

jon isn’t aegon targaryen (because, again, the entire point of his arc is that a bastard is valid)

bran’s greensight has some value that is an actual threat to the night king, other than being like a dumb hub of all human knowledge 

EPISODE 1

the season starts in king’s landing. the march north has yet to begin (fixing the continuity errors of the back and forth on the kingsroad this season).

dany gears up to take the iron throne from cersei. jon pleads with her to march north instead, but she refuses, so he leaves for winterfell with brienne, sansa, et al to begin gearing up for battle with the wildlings and anyone else who can pick up a sword, even though it is a lost cause.

cersei uses the commonfolk as bait for dany, knowing her weakness is mercy. jaime, believing dany is capable of going mad queen, tells her all the people will die, etc. how could she do this, and it’s the last straw. brienne’s “fuck loyalty” finally lands. his allegiance to cersei is broken, though he makes no indication of it (i believe in nikolaj to be able to convey this without needing any major declaration of it).

melisandre shows up and does some mysterious magic stuff and tells dany a creepy riddle that basically goes, if one of your dragons falls, it will call upon something something, and dany is just ?? lol k.

EPISODE 2

jaime seeks out tyrion to tell him the major deets of cersei’s plan. he gets caught and held prisoner. tyrion finds him, lets him go, and urges him to convince cersei to surrender. 

missandei gives her two cents -- you only need to defeat the queen, not the people. dany gives her “they don’t love me, they fear me” speech and missandei says like, but they will love you. they’ll love you because you’re good. and then there’s some exchange about like, dany realizing no one can be good if they hold all the power. power corrupts, and the idea of the throne has corrupted her. missandei says that dany doesn’t need a throne to lead. she’s already a queen, and always will be.

meanwhile in winterfell, jon is rallying forces to defeat the night king, and working with his siblings (sans arya, who has gone south to king’s landing with the hound) to make a plan.

tyrion then begs dany not to kill everyone if they surrender, bell ringing, etc. the battle happens as it did in canon, except jon isn’t there. without the iron fleet it’s less of a big deal. cersei still believes her armies will prevail. the civilians are still running around trying to find safety, which makes everything chaotic. cersei’s armies (which have elephants!!) are making good headway. things look pretty bleak.

jaime finds cersei and urges her to surrender, believing that dany will kill all the people. cersei refuses, because she’s winning. they have pre-victory sex, but to jaime, it’s sad goodbye sex.

rhaegal gets speared and falls. more battle stuff happens, well into the night and reaching morning (but we can SEE shit because the lighting is GOOD). dany is stricken with grief. then! an ARMY of DRAGONS flies in from the west. they circle king’s landing. everyone is going totally batshit with fear and awe. the bells ring. empowered and angry, dany really wants to murder everyone. cliffhanger.

EPISODE 3

dany makes her choice not to kill everyone. she flies to the red keep and has a confrontation with cersei in the throne room. dany gives cersei the opportunity to bend the knee and join forces so that together, their armies can march north and defeat the night king. cersei refuses. dany threatens to take down the entire red keep. jaime is at his queen’s side, knowing what he has to do, not sure if he’s truly willing to do it.

the hound and arya make it to the red keep. arya agrees to separate and borrow some faces to make her way past the guards, and let the hound in from there. 

in winterfell, bran offers himself as bait to the night king. it’s a shitty plan, but the only chance they’ve got.

the mountain moves to attack dany. drogon, perched outside, screeches a warning. the hound intervenes and attacks the mountain. arya attacks cersei, but jaime intervenes and fights arya. dany hops on drogon and starts burning down the red keep. we hear many dragon war cries of support, lots of screaming, the bells. everything is collapsing and on fire. while fighting, jaime tells cersei to retreat and find safety. cersei is finally afraid, but still somehow believes she’ll win. 

the hound isn’t doing so well with the mountain. arya, seeing that cersei has had basically all her power stripped away, gives up her fight with jaime reluctantly and helps the hound.

jaime, alone now with cersei, offers his final plea -- if they leave now, they can escape, and go make a new life together. cersei, for the last time, says she will not leave the throne. jaime kisses her and stabs her (like the scene with jon and dany, but not that), a mirror of killing the mad king.

the hound is holding the mountain at bay. arya sets him on fire. the hound cuts off his head. together, they make it out of the red keep just in time to watch it fall. they help the civilians to safety. 

dany, seeing cersei dead and jaime huddled over her dead body on the throne (the same position he was in after he killed the mad king), ceases fire, and rescues jaime from the falling keep.

the next morning, dany, tyrion, jorah, varys, missandei, and grey worm approach the iron throne. the remaining unsullied and dothraki are lined up behind her. the remaining lannister army soldiers are being held prisoner. 

dany gives a speech about marching north. she offers the lannister army an opportunity to redeem themselves by marching with her. they agree. 

she approaches the throne, says her little speech about not being able to count to twenty, makes a comment about how it’s not as grand as she thought it would be. we truly believe she has ascended beyond the plight of a petty throne. dozens of dragons are whirling overhead. finally she says something about the throne being a symbol of tyranny, and how she’ll break the wheel. then she commands drogon to destroy it.

drogon melts the throne.

EPISODE 4

jaime marches alone to winterfell ahead of the armies. he arrives and sees bran waiting for him. he feels unworthy to still be alive. he should have died with cersei.

he approaches sansa to tell her what happened. sansa questions his loyalty, if he was willing to kill his sister, why should he be able to fight for them? brienne steps up and defends him, but she’s obviously very worried -- he looks half-dead.

while waiting for the armies, there is lots of braime time. brienne tells him he did the right thing. jaime asks to fight under her, and she agrees. he heals very slowly by the comfort of brienne, though it is apparent he is still planning to die in battle.

theon and yara arrive with the iron fleet and offer to fight for sansa. 

the wildlings find the carnage the wights have wrought and arrive in winterfell to say they have only a few days before the battle comes to them.

dany arrives in winterfell with all of the armies. jon is relieved that dany didn’t go mad queen. sansa is still skeptical, and doesn’t want the north under dany’s reign. 

the rest of the ep is spent preparing for battle. the hound and arya arrive in winterfell. arya makes a teasing comment to the hound about how she’s grown tired of his company, and seeks out jon to have their reunion. then she looks for gendry and asks for a special blade. 

that night, jaime knights brienne. arya fucks gendry. sansa and theon get caught up. jon and dany bang it out. 

we see the wights marching closer. 

EPISODE 5

the battle arrives, and happens pretty much as it does in canon, except BRIGHTER. the dragons cause a lot of damage. 

at one point, jaime is outnumbered, and it looks very much like he might die. we see him give up and drop his sword, but brienne throws them all off and tells him he doesn’t get to die today.

everything is the same, except jon leaves to face the night king. he arrives alone, theon already dead. there’s a big battle and he’s totally outnumbered. then arya sneaks up while the night king is distracted by jon and kills the night king the same way she did in canon.

the wights fall. victory!!

EPISODE 6

nearly everything that happened in episode 4, re: pyres and celebration, except when dany offers gendry lordship, he declines it, knowing arya would never want that life

braime goes canon but like, better. jaime says he should have died, brienne should have let him die. brienne says she’s glad he didn’t. it’s as close as she can get to a confession of feelings.

dany, realizing how loved jon is, offers jon a partnership, to lead the seven kingdoms together. jon declines, and explains that he’s never been able to choose his own destiny, but now he can, and he has a lot of thinking to do. dany respects his decision.

sansa wants the north to secede from the seven kingdoms. dany is enraged by this, and threatens to tear down winterfell. jon says that if dany does that, he will die with winterfell.

dany reluctantly accepts the secession, but threatens to one day return to winterfell and claim it. it is acknowledged that there may be a future war between the six kingdoms and the north.

sansa allows jaime to stay in winterfell. dany punishes tyrion for treason by forcing him to remain hand of the queen. 

sansa is crowned queen of the north. bran is given hand of the queen. arya, gendry, jon, the hound, and ghost lead the wildlings back through the wall.

dany is crowned queen of the six kingdoms, and vows, with the help of her new council, to listen to her people and come up with a better system of rule.

i know it’s not perfect! dany being crowned queen still offers a kind of “the ends always justify the means” theme that i don’t really like, as well as the idea of royal lineage, and if i had the entire series to myself, i would have made it so that her aspirations for “liberation” were more true, and that, once she got into power, she immediately disseminated it. but also there are a lot of foundational problems with the entire premise that i can’t really fix in one season. also there are really too many characters to manage, and i may have still had dany kill more people to show her ruthlessness, but this is loosely how i would have approached a tighter ending. 

[mattatouile]

let’s play a game of “literally d&d are the most inept show-runners/writers of all time” with the jaime/brienne plotline in season 8. in this post, i will use the major points with a few minor tweaks and it will actually make sense for braime! it won’t be nice, but it will make sense. however, i have to use info from the leaks, so if you for some reason want to be surprised by whatever bullshit d&d throw at the wall next week, skip dis.

1) everything from 8x01 - 8x03 still happens exactly as is. we get this lovely build-up of them and his belief in brienne and their bond. which was totally 100% in line with what jaime and brienne always had in this show. we also still get jaime knighting brienne which is important later.

2) 8x04 is different but not the ending. i know the ending is super painful. but hear me out. while i always believed i wanted to see jaime and brienne get it on, it doesn’t work in the context of this season’s arc and those are the bones we’re playing with. so. they don’t have sex. they do have some sort of very heavy moment where they actually speak to deeper feelings for one another. but it’s ultimately still very jaime and brienne. because they’re both bad at this. 

3) the ending of 8x04 still happens, but maybe not in the middle of the night, and jaime hasn’t spent a month leading brienne on and having a sexual relationship with her. and when she asks him to stay, he tells her something like, ‘in a different world, i would stay with you. i wish i could stay.’ and then he kisses her forehead or her cheek or her hand or something. this is still devastating, brienne still knows that he’s basically going to die with cersei, but it makes a lot more sense for jaime to leave winterfell when a month long sexual/romantic relationship with brienne didn’t happen.

4) jaime still dies with cersei having not broken the one remaining vow he never broke. which was his personal devotion to cersei and only cersei. do i think it’s a healthy devotion? fuck no. but it’s a very, very important aspect of jaime’s entire character. he was defined for 40+ years by his devotion/vow to be cersei’s and only cersei’s. the things he does for love. 

now for the stuff based on leaks which may or may not be 100% correct.

5) brienne is made lord/lady commander of the kingsguard. jaime’s final act was to give her access to a career she would deeply love and would be deeply satisfying to her. him knighting her is giving her the opportunity to write her own history, to create a new world with the white book. ignoring my feelings about brienne not being allowed even the opportunity for romantic love aside, i don’t think anyone can deny that that sort of validation is so completely important and vital to brienne’s happiness. i also think that if she was going to be with any man, it would be jaime, and i think that’s been apparent in the show and even in the books. i mean, should people just give up on love, nah, i don’t think so. but i think it’s not a tragic end for brienne to be given a status that was always always be denied her except for the final act of love from jaime that knighted her and opened that door to fulfillment. 

6) the final scene with brienne is her opening the white book to jaime’s page and completely his story. writing all the things he did that he should be proud of. becoming a swordfighter with his off-hand. defending the realm against the others. knighting the first woman in the seven kingdoms, the lord commander of the kingsguard, ser brienne of tarth. that’s the proper ending for them. is it them with kids on tarth? no. but this is game of thrones and i think we all deep down knew that was never going to happen. but jaime, in an act of love, outside the bounds of society’s expectations and accepted status quo, unlocks the door for brienne to have a future she always dreamed of when she realized that being a lady wasn’t her path. 

i would have been fine with that. i wouldn’t have been overjoyed, but i would’ve felt like, ‘yes. this makes sense for them.’ i would’ve cried and been emotionally upset that jaime died the way he did. but i would’ve understood and i would’ve found it fitting for the jaime and brienne of the show. 

[annaliesegrace]

Jaime Lannister

Look, he was going to die this season. No doubt about it, I never expected him to live.

But they didnt have to destroy his character on the way out. I get it, Jaime hated himself and thought he didnt deserve Brienne, that he and Cersei deserved each other. They make this point when Brienne writes in the book the good deeds he'd done. She could see it even when he couldnt.

Except that completely ignores 7 YEARS of character development and especially everything from 7x07 on. The writers are basically saying "no point in improving yourself cause it doesnt matter, you'll always fall back into bad habits". He was changed, he TOLD BRAN he was a different man...he loved Brienne and they did a piss poor job showing that.

Easy fix:

They have sex in 8x02 before the WW show up. He dies in WF in Briennes arms at the end of 8x03. She can still write everything in the book.

Alternate:

They do NOT bang in 8x04, instead have a long conversation about loving people. He goes back to Cersei because hateful, blah blah, same ending. Less hurtful.

I dont hate he died, I dont hate he went back to Cersei (if written right).

I HATE everything about how they did it, I HATE 8x04 was written like fan service to Braime shippers and then forgotten the next ep.

I LOVE Brienne is Kingsguard, because that's what she wanted and I LOVE she finished his pages.

[the-ice-sculpture]

Thoughts on Sanrion

Sanrion isn’t as inevitable a thing as Braime or Gendra is/has been but there’s still potential evidence that it’s been the works for a long time coming. None of what I’m saying is new, I’m just using this as an excuse to vent my thoughts.

From the beginning both the show and books made a point of emphasising how Ned and Catelyn built their love stone by stone, despite not being each other’s first choice (or even choice at all). Thematically, it’d make sense if this comes full circle by being repeated for the ending. Sansa is the Stark who most resembles her mother, who most mirrors her mother - only Sansa has the potential to be even more fierce and (is already more) politically savvy. If Sansa was to end up marrying anyone else, it’d make the most structural sense as a story if her marriage mirrored that of her mother and father’s - if she married somebody she did not initially like and if together they both decided to build their marriage. 

Since a large portion of Sansa’s character arc revolves around her loss of naivety and overcoming romanticised notions of handsome valiant knights and princes, if she was to end up with someone then it’d be the most satisfying if she ends up choosing someone who is in no way conventionally attractive and doesn’t hold up to the idealised dreams of future matches she had as a young girl. Tyrion is the epitome of someone who is in no sense conventionally attractive and he’s one of the few characters outside her family who she has a long history with who is also high born. Tyrion is the only character in King’s Landing (debatably except from The Hound and Margery Tyrell) who shows her any kindness without having any ulterior motive and he’s also from a house that’s despised by her family. So, yeah, Tyrion fits the bill. 

Sansa’s so used to people valuing her for what her name brings them because she is the key to the North. For years no one outside her family valued her for her and instead she’s faced an onslaught of suitors and people trying to make matches for her based on what her name and title would bring them. This is common amongst the highborn girls in Westeros but happens far more than would be considered normal to Sansa. In a political sense, she’s been traded and promised like a piece of meat. One of the most powerful things she can do now is to make her own decisions and choose what - or who - she wants for herself. 

Tyrion has the opposite problem to Sansa. Instead of being fought over like a piece of meat, all his potential suitors are either repulsed or offended by the offer of a match with him. A match with him would be a punishment, as far as they’re concerned. For most of Tyrion’s story, all the people Tyrion socialises with are paid to be in his company. No one chooses Tyrion. In the show, Tyrion doesn’t know Tysha wasn’t paid by Jaime and has no idea she voluntarily chose him as a romantic partner. Whenever Tyrion accomplishes something great someone else gets all the credit and praise. Whenever something goes badly, whether or not Tyrion had anything to do with it, he gets blame or accusations. Tyrion is constantly undervalued despite his incredible assets and competence. This only changed when Daenerys named him her hand. But in terms of his value as a marital partner, from Tyrion’s own perspective, no one has chosen him. 

You see where I’m going with this? Sansa has experienced too many people fighting over her for her name. Sansa now has the freedom and power to make her own choices. Tyrion is used to being undervalued and is the person no one voluntarily chooses... If only there was a solution that would satisfy both these criteria.

Personality wise, they’re also a very good match even though the age difference isn’t ideal. Tyrion is one of the few people who can make Sansa genuinely laugh and smile. Tyrion treats her gently and wishes to protect her and curses himself for not being strong enough to always be able to. His intentions and the way he treats her (definitely more so in the show rather than the books) actually read as genuinely chivalrous (see all the hand to hand contact they have). In an interesting twist, Tyrion in some ways reflects Sansa’s old romantic ideas, only they come from someone she never expected such chivalry to come from (or even someone she would’ve expected to want such chivalry to come from). But Sansa could have both. Sansa could both have someone who treats her as she wants to be treated as well as someone who represents how much she has grown as a person. Because, honestly, at this stage the last things Sansa cares about is how handsome someone is or how valiant they are. Sansa wants those she cares about to stay loyal and stay alive. 

Politically, Sansa and Tyrion are also a good match. A Lannister and Stark choosing to be together would be a poetic end, given all the blood between their houses. And as many people have pointed out, the War of the Roses (which GoT is loosely inspired by) ended with the two opposing houses marrying. Sansa’s one of the very few characters on the show who can keep up with him and he saw her potential from the beginning. In the crypts, they choose to hold hands, to face the threat together, and in the heat of all that they even had a tender moment with Tyrion kissing her hand. After all the intense eye-contact of that scene, how they brought up their marriage even before that scene happened, and after everything that’s been left unsaid between them, it’d be a bit strange if this development in their relationship doesn’t lead to anything more. Due to the sheer terror of the situation, I really don’t think Sansa was manipulating him here. We only see Sansa manipulate people she sees as potential threats and people who’ve wronged her in the past and Tyrion is neither of these things. 

There’s also the bonus of the potential beautiful irony of Sansa and Tyrion being happily married enraging Cersei and Tywin Lannister from beyond the grave. 

So in terms of coherent storytelling, having Sansa and Tyrion renew their wedding vows could work very well, so long as they both choose it and aren’t forced into it. There’s even a possibility of it being the ‘sweet’ part of the ‘bittersweet’ ending we’ve been hearing so much about. The GoT universe is so dark that their relationship could provide a delicate contrast, particularly given the history of these two characters and everything they’ve been through. 

The time they’ve spent apart has actually been very healthy for the possibility of them deciding to be together. It’s given Sansa a chance to mature on her own, to grow and become a woman and learn lessons by herself. They’ve both had long journeys where they’ve formed their own new alliances and have learned so much along the way. The absence of each other means they’re not used to being forced together. During this time, in the show Tyrion abstained from sex which surprised him more than anyone else. The show made Sansa experience the worst kind of match she could possibly have had with Ramsey, who was a huge contrast to Tyrion’s promise that he’ll never share her bed unless she wants him to (and I hope there’ll be a throwback to that line with these two). Given both their trauma, it’s a very delicate area to navigate around but these two have the potential to work together to achieve it if it’s what they desire.

But here’s the part that makes me not so optimistic: all the ominous foreshadowing revolving around Tyrion. Because Sansa’s chances of survival seem far greater than Tyrion’s at the moment. Sansa’s learned so much and now is one of the cleverest characters on the show but Tyrion... I just don’t know if he’ll make it out alive. I think if he makes it out alive then they have a genuine chance together. But all the not so subtle hints of Daenerys becoming increasingly displeased with him as well as the conversations about betrayal he’s had with Daenerys and Varys suggest Tyrion’s going to have a hard time getting away unscathed. (Given how I’m sure Sansa’s role is going to become more important in the world of politics, I’m desperately hoping she could help him out of a tough spot somehow in a plot twist.)

My ideal ending for Tyrion and Sansa would be for Sansa to be Queen of the North and for Tyrion to be her hand. I don’t see Sansa wanting to leave Winterfell or her family ever again. I don’t see her changing her name from Stark to anything else either, even if she does remarry. Tyrion loves playing the game and almost being killed over it hasn’t put him off in the past. He has no objections to supporting a queen, despite Westerosi misogyny. Sansa has learned to play the game and play it well. Together, they’re the ultimate political power couple. Tyrion has more years of experience but Sansa knows the North and she also covers Tyrion’s blind spots (like about there being no chance of Cersei sending her army north). King’s Landing also holds certain complications for Tyrion, given his history there and the treatment from his family, Shae, and the city’s citizens. 

And I haven’t even touched upon how these two already started to build up a foundation of trust while they were in King’s Landing... Ugh. There’s so much to say with these two. I’m sure I’ll start thinking of more stuff I should’ve included here after I’ve posted this. I’ve no idea how it’s gonna go down, either tragically or sweetly or neither of the two. 

Anyway... Fingers crossed.

[fyeahsmokinhot]

Basically a mildly funny, delusional therapy session!

Ok, I can't anymore I just need to let it out.

I've been in bed since this morning as I got food poisoning/stomach flu and I'm quite sure it's because of D&D and not the T/A.

So anyway let's rant...also my nimble fingers might make typos as I'm super dehydrated (feeling like Ghost after fighting with WWs and being abandoned by Jon the Dumbest).

So we start with the funeral.....and its sombre as shit. Well done David Nutter btw. And we move on to eating food 🤮.

Here we go: Dany! I love(d) her so much, but lately she's all over the place going from crazy to crazy in love. Now don't let my lack of detecting any chemistry between her and Resident Emo Boy confuse you BUT are we just all going to sweep the incestous undertones under the pelts?Here I am watching another make out scene???.....but ok I shall resurrect and go to Kings Landing where Cersei is hosting a party (Wall themed I see). After losing her baby (also wth how did she not see them?why didn't she dracarys Eurons ass?), her Sir Friendzone and her BFF once again Dany is made to seem BAD for mourning in a murderous way (ah I guess it's ok if Arya does it....or Snow?), Being held to higher standard .....JUST BC SHE HAS A VAGINA??? ( Dios Mio, Olenna please).

Next up on my list Arya who went back to her old cuddle buddy The Hound.....Kind of digging it. Gendry you dumbass (❤️) offer her to go on a round-trip of murder (Bonnie & Clyde style) not a marriage. Also mad love for making her an honest woman with those puppy eyes.

Brienne & Jaime ....and this is where we go cray-cray. Dear fellow citizen of Tumblr, if you still reading brace yourself....by the end of the next 2 episodes (if U ARE a BRAIME shipper) you be losing golden hands, legs, basically everything that you can rip off (like Miss Vanjie did when singing No More Pain). So after reading countless (!!!!) posts about how people interpreted that scene (remember dear reader I was ill today so it was a lot) I think we can settle on Prince Charming Now Turned Old Guy Because Of International Incestous Relations is a dumbass with a death wish. BUT is he a good dumbass or a bad one.Now here I'd like to point out two things I didn't see considered:

Jaime already killed a king to save the population of Kings Landing.

Jaime said to Brienne he would have done the deed at Riverrun....but he didn't cus of Brie-Brie .....I'm assuming we all saw the things he did for her that went against Cersei. He went back to rescue her instead of rushing to KL, he arranged for her to leave as soon as Queen Should Have Been Thanos' Wife even breathed in her general direction, gave her instructions and means to protect Sansa even though his sister wanted her dead, took Riverrun in piece BC Brie-Brie asked !!!!! Come on guys after all that you can't believe he would put Cersei before her (or maybe I'm fuckin wrong since D&D don't even seem to know correct details in their behind the scenes cuts). So yes I believe Jamie wants to kill Female Jaime because....if she defeats Dany she is coming for them in Winter fell (also Brienne and Sansa are in WF).

No I don't ship Jaimsa (because hello fuckin weirdos 💝), but Briennes oath means something to Jaime.

BUT I hate...hate...hate how Jaime left her (the 🍑). He broke her heart after she finally opened it ...and this (D2 will burn in hell, the crossroads demon is on it).

Also my two weirdos having the most relatable and clumsy copulation (yes I said it, someone had to) moment. Like don't we all just flirt like Jaime...so smooth: it's hot in here bitches breeches off. Oh look my poor hand doesn't work I guess I will need your help...🥺🥺🥺

Brienne will NOT die. I can't believe otherwise.There are some characters you don't touch (Juliet from Lost, Clarke from The 100, Castiel) and she is one of them. I love that Gwen was real about her arc of being a woman this season.

I do think I have an unhealthy obsession with Braime as this episode actually made me sick(no it wasn't the take away) and now I will forever remember this as the night Braime became canon and the day when I felt like The Prince of Dorne when his eyes were popping (oh Oberyn....Pedro Pascal I miss your holiness sexiness).

And what with all the articles/YouTubers predicting pregnancies? We watched (with my friend, I'm not hallucinating from dehydration) people predicting a pregnant Dany, Brienne, Arya (?)....basically everyone with boobs. Chill guys if you worried about repopulating Samwell is on it!

And Tyrion best wingman in Westeros. What even was he doing showing off to GingerBain (btw good for you, tap dat rebound ass babe....and have fun going back to the land of the lost....you could have taken Dumbass Emo with you 🤫). Btw guys how many versions of the Two Dudes Just Hanging And Discussing The Fate Of The Iron Throne While Demeaning Rulers (mostly women) As Incompetent do we have to sit through? Can I like request to see actual things like Two Eyed Robot telling the sisters about the heritage or Sansa telling Tyrion instead of cutting away? That Tyrion and Sansa scene was having me on the edge.

And we come to Sansa. My queen, my sunshine and..... apparently my New Little finger ( is it only me who hates this comparison that reduces her to a power hungry, brothel-less creepy dude even thought she's been doing everything for her family????). I lost it when I heard them bring this up in the Untucked Uncut vid. Like maybe give us some actual scenes with Sansa where we get to see her contemplating her goals and wishes and not just her looking pretty up into the sky (compulsory shot of season 8). I've been feeling so far away from Sansa since season 7 (worst season ever....but this one is a contender).

Also from now on I'm believing in Bronn.He foresaw the Bang and said he will collect later. There will be a later for the boys! Bronn gave up on the castle he's now gone to take over for the Witchy Woman who talked to frogs and Cersei. Big ups for the resident Reversed Three Eyed Raven!

I have read the interview where GRRM said he doesn't agree or like some character fates. I agree GRRM so can you give us a book ....I mean God's it takes me ages to get started on my coursework, bit at least I submit it 10 min before the deadline!

Also the total lack of any mention of Braime in both behind the scenes....??!!!...Might be good news.

#Bonus Fun topics you can bring up at Thanksgiving:

Podrick and the 3some - u go girl!!!

Tyrion and his lack of sex - we've all been there and that's why I need spoilers to satisfy my craving....just like you needed to know about the magic vagina!

Wtf is a Varys anymore? Also Yara?

Ser Dadvos without kids and Red God's is super depressing. Give the guy an orphan!

Greyworm -which shot of his face was more intimidating. Rate from 1 to Dracarys!

Global warming? Dragons near extinction?

*Disclaimer: I love all GOT characters (well, maybe except for I Have One Facial Expression And It's Emo Jon), but I just needed a good rant cus the ones aimed at my friends didn't do it for me 😄

[dachi-chan25]

GoT S8 Episode 4 "I don't even care about the title of this" Recap

So here I am once again (I didn't do a Recap of the battle episode cuz frankly I'm not a huge fan of battle stuff, and it was very messy the way D&D executed it, there was not much stuff to analyze so yeah) and well the way some people talked about Jon yesterday really had me worried (and hey if you hate him now or don't believe in him it's fine, not your fault but the writers') but when I watched the episode I got a completely different impression (which is fine I mean sharing a ship doesn't mean we have to agree on every single thing) and I will talk about it.

Oh yeah I am not a fan of D, nor of aegony and I still believe in Pol! Jon and jonsa so if you are not intrested in reading about any of that this is not the Recap for ya.

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Funeral & Feast

From the very beginning of the episode I was like 👀👀. We get a shot of Ser Jorah's corpse and D mourning him and then we get the exact same thing with Theon and Sansa (drawing this parallels between them is truly intresting) but we only get Jon's sad expression after we get Sansa sobbing which makes me think he was watching her (this is also supported by the fact that D was not in his direct line of vision and the fact he is not standing anywhere near her in that moment or afterwards).

Jon gives a pretty emotional speech about the fallen and the future generations, and the director made sure we get a shot of Sansa behind Jon as he talks about the future generations (aka children) when a more open shot would have made it more vague and meaning about everyone's children and not just Jon & Sansa's, I mean for me the foreshadowing was strong.

The pyres are lit, and I guess this is where the rumours about WF burning started (gosh I am so glad they didn't had D burn it) .

Everyone is celebrating the victory in the Great Hall, everything starts on a serious note, until Gendry gets up the benches to go looking for Arya, and D calls on him. Ok serious talk, did any of y'all notice that look of worry that passes between Jon and Dadvos??? Like they were waiting for the worst, why in the Seven Hells would Jon expect the worst out of someone he supposedly loves and believes in? Cuz he does not. And yeah he is relieved but not relaxed when she names him Lord of Storms End (k seriously i thought d&d had completely forgot about the riverlands,stormlands, westerlands,the Reach, dorne, and everywhere else that was not "plot relevant" ) and the fact that no one even knew who was ruling there like? ??? Didn't Jon sent letters to every lord in season 4 or 5??? Like how do they not know this???

Back to Jon, he looks puzzled like he doesn't know what game she is playing. While she is patting herself in the back for getting rid of a man that had a better claim to the throne than her. Tyrion is a dumbass, cuz D can't name Gendry shit until she actually has the alliance of the stormlands but whatevs, she is not a politiciiian she is a kweeeen.

So yeah the mead and wine get passed around and everyone seems to be having a good time except for 1 person: D

Why is this? Well because she is not their hero, not really, and she knows, I mean she watched the NK walking through her flames, if not for ser Jorah she would be dead and that can't be cuz she is special she has to be cuz she is the last Targy except now she knows that is also not true, and we get her looking at Jon.

And Jon??? Well he doesn't give her the time of the day (again if he loved her so much he would be spending time with her, trying to include her in the conversation with him and his friends) cuz he is lauguing and drinking with Tormund and Sansa (honestly Sansa was so flirty with that "c'mon, do it in believe in you" like i have used that same line girl what), he turns around for a second and smiles at d (he is having a good time and why wouldn't he smile, she is not the one that made him smile he is smiling cuz he is happy and on his way to getting drunk) thing is Sansa catches him sharing a smile with D and her reaction is so out of proportion for a "sister" when she was all smiles and heart eyes not 2 seconds ago, her smile disappears and she leaves, what is Jon's reaction? He turns around and watches her leave super confused, D is smug until she realizes Jon didn't really pick her, she didn't won cuz he still is looking at Sansa and not back at her.

Things get crazy with Tormund and he shouts for anyone to hear that Jon is a "King" and then only then Jon turns to see D's reaction, and she gives him a forced smile that he returns because he doesn't want to antagonize her. By this point Jon is making 0 effort to resume their "relationship" but also doesn't want to be percived as her enemy.

And we get a terrifying look on D's face as she sees everyone around her celebrating without a care for her, their kween, cuz they would rather have Jon or Sansa, and she can't take it, so much she has to go.

Now we get a drinking game between Tyrion, Brienne, Jaime and Pod, is all cool until Tyrion mentions the fact Brienne is a virgin, she gets upset and leaves, Jaime goes for her and Tormund has the realization that he has no chance with Brienne. Now he goes to complain to the Hound who gives 0 fucks about his lonely soul, and suddenly everyone gets a sexual partner (everything is very heterosexual of course, we know the only gays in westeros are dead or in the Iron Islands) and we see Sansa watching (this is what she wants that she doesn't have, she doesn't want sex she wants romance but she can't have it with the one she wants) and she has a 1 on 1 with the Hound that I have already talked about.

Gendry finally finds Arya shooting arrows on her own, and tells her the good news, not only that but he proposes. And oh, I knew Arya wouldn't want to get married but this was hard to see, we still get a kiss so she loves him but that is not the life she wants for herself.

Aegonyyyy & "The Truth"

Jon is looking miserable in his room. I mean if anything has been consistent with Jon is the fact that he wants to deal with everything on his own, but the fact that he has to deal with this whole existential crisis and the up coming war must be exhausting. D enters his room unannounced (fooking rude, but I don't expect any better cuz she has never shown him respect at all, even Jon knocks when entering the office he shares with Sansa) he stumbles up (he is drunk totally unprepared for any conversation she wants to have) and gives her his condolences about Jorah (meaning this is the 1st conversation since the parentage reveal they have, and D is the one to iniciate it not Jon, again nothing about this makes me think he loves her) he doesn't hug her or approach her any further, as always D is the one forcing intimacy between them, honestly we get no real reaction from Jon when she tells him Jorah loved her but she couldn't love him cuz she loves Jon.

One of the cornerstone's of a romantic relationship is the frist time someone declares their love, and usually when one half of the pairing doesn't say it back it screams trouble. A kiss does not equal love, and it's not a good thing to do when someone is pouring their feelings for you. Now Jon does seem more into the kiss but as the director's commented he remembers what she is (not who but what) and pulls back. Jon's expression is not good if they selling me a romance, he doesn't look tortured by his desire and love for his aunt, but disgusted and defeated like he thought this was over but apparently nope he still has to be like this.

D has never respected Jon or his feelings (like when s7 was airing I remember I said she reminded me of Tw1l1ght when she watched Jon sleep, and how little she respects his privacy) and this imbalance in their relationship is again present when she starts complaining about how people love him and not her (gee I wonder if that has anything to do with setting your dragons on them when you arrived) like really, not once she worried about his feelings about not being who he thought he was, the only thing she cares about is the IT and if he will get in the way. Jon is visibly annoyed while giving his back to her so she doesn't seem but the audience does. What's more she expects Jon to lie to his family isolating himself from them to make her happy (that's fucked up) I do believe Jon intended to tell them everything (he just doesn't know how, and is understandably afraid cuz he never felt truly a part of the pack, and now he thinks he really is not) now he sees D is not going to let go of him, of the North, he can't say anything (i mean he totally should tho, I know d&d are just doing this to hold onto pol!Jon and dark!dany for as long as they can before being all smug like bet you didn't see it coming, except i do, I see u villians. Jk maybe I am wrong xd) he still wants to say it, and D goes absolutely crazy saying the truth is gonna destroy them (why dear isn't that the name of your epic couple song?) And that she wants to live in her selfish ass fantasy while stating how threatened she feels by Sansa (by this point Jon knows she burned the Tarlys for not bending and Sansa is not bending, if she bent know d would surely find it suspicious) the ONLY way he can protect Sansa as long as D is still at WF (and maybe forever) is if he is in the middle, her feelings for him have to be enough to stop her from hurting Sansa, or at least that is how I see his PoV right now, better for Sansa to be alive and hate him than having D kill her.

********The Braime is scene was so good tho 😢😢😢😍😍😍

War Council & Stark Meeting

Or the moment most people wanted to throw Jon in the trash...

So they making stupid ass, basic plans to defeat chess master Cersei.

And there, told ya D wanted to burn shit down before Missandei. Jon gets her to listen (Tyrion is grateful af)and instead of burning shit down like idiots they will lay a siege. But then Sansa raises an important issue everyone should care about: The physical and mental recovery of their armies. But D is like crazy tbh, there is no better word and she still treats the Long night as Jon's war and the northern as Sansa's people, and my girl rightfully calls her out. Jon puts a stop to that and he was heavily critiziced for it, but like he did the right thing?? I mean i hated how hurt Sansa looked, but Jon is trying (still) real hard to protect her, but there is nothing he can do if Sansa keeps antagonizing D (did y'all see how out of proportion was her reaction to a valid question??) also I think Jon wants to get D as far away from his family (specially Sansa) as possible.

Onto the reunión it was pretty telling how Sansa and Jon were already fighting it out like they do, both lost in their little world til Arya is like guys pls stop. Arya served as an excellent contrast between what sisterly concern looks like and what Sansa is showing. Jon is desperate, he has to go with D, not only because his family will not be safe if Cersei is alive, but because D feels they owe her that, and D wants him by her side and that is the only way she won't accuse him or his family of plotting against her, by this point i don't think jon has any plan to separate himself from her, he will do what she wants for as long as she wants because she has the power to hurt the people he loves and he rather be unhappy than losing his family forever. So he makes Bran tell them and makes them swear they won't tell anyone (he is explicitly defying D's wishes here) why?? Well there could be many reasons, his last act of free will, or maybe he wants the Starks to hate him and get him out of the pack (he doesn't even consider himself a part of the pack, and from his PoV Sansa doesn't either, cuz he is an idiot just not in the way people think he is) for choosing his Targ family over them, I lean toward the later but who knows?? I just know something bad had to happen for Arya to leave like that with no intention of returning and Sansa not saying goodbye to Jon and just wistfully watch from the battlements.

Farewell Jon

Again people hated Jon for this. But imho Jon is clearly not well in that moment, he looks tired, depressed. And i doubt very much this is the last scene with Ghost he will have.

Also Jon says he wishes he could go North is pretty sad?? If Jon loved d that much he would be sad about being at odds with his family but determined he is doing the right thing, he would be at least a little eager or something, not saying he wishes he could go up north and hide himself from everything. Also Tormund saying a part of the north will always be in Jon is foreshadowing that he will definitely come back.

Jon self deprecating "I hope it's a girl" when gilly tells him they want to name the baby after him. Jon is not alright.

He can't say goodbye to Ghost because this is not goodbye, this is not the last time they will see each other, and Jon can't bring himself to say goodbye (tbh he looked like the saddest boy ever, he didn't look like an uncaring ass to me) because ghost is his tie to his stark side, and he just can't part from that (also I am good with Jon not taking him to the South, like we don't wanna see my pure boy die)

Tyrion, she is in love with Jon u idiot.

So yeah D is with the dragons, and i don't know about y'all but Rhaegal is flying just fine (I think D didn't want Jon riding Rhaegal anymore to avoid more talk about how kingly he is).

So yeah Sansa is seeing this lizards fly, and Tyrion approaches her, she is not even trying to disguise how much she loathes the idea of D being kween, Tyrion is trying to work out why, it would certainly make things easier if the Lady of WF and the crown had a civil relationship. Sansa acts very snappy and brings up the good relationship the Warden of the North has with their kween (I want to slap Tyrion everytime he says "she is your kween too" to any other character) Tyrion very unsubtly says Jon is not coming back, and Sansa gets so emotional, she tells him she doesn't want Jon to go South.

Tyrion is baffled (cuz he is boo boo the fool) as to why Sansa is so against D, and even tells her how much more power she'll have if Jon is out of the picture. She doesn't want power tho she wants Jon. Sansa cleverly points out Tyrion is scared of D, and asks him why he thinks she would be a good kween (lmaooo this is what it looks like when u a brainwashed fool, Tyrion straight up says he believes in D as opposed to Jon saying they needed her armies) Tyrion says bs and Sansa says what if there was a better option. (This might save Jon's ass later tbh)

Welp that escalated fast

So now, we have the stupidest team ever traveling by boat to KL or dragonstone??? Somewhere in between maybe.

Varys and Tyrion are having a chat about Jon's parentage. Welp. Varys is Team Snow now I guess and Tyrion is still a fool. Honestly none of this bodes well for the D.

Now she is flying magestically with her 2 dragons when bam! Euron sinks her battleship and her battle dragon and her everything.

D, like the impulsive fool she is, charges against the Greyjoy fleet only to discover that they all have Scorpions, and she is risking it too much.

Everyone swims to the shore (honestly how Lucky they are that everyone knows how to swim) but Missandei is missing.

Cersei is the supreme bitch drinking wine and relishing in how unprepared D team is. Missandei is chained (😢) and very scared.

In WF, Sansa gets the news (who sent her this raven?? Varys is my bet) and Jaime overhears. Sansa says she wishes she could watch Cersei's execution (and this was pretty harsh but Cersei deserves Sansa's hate so..) Jaime gets unsettled and that paired up with that scene of the previously on where Cersei reveals she is pregnant plus all that stuff on 8x02 about him doing things for his family, I guess it's pretty clear he will try to save Cersei for the baby's sake not out of love but because the baby is innocent and is his, he already has fought D and knows his chances to survive again are scarce so he has to hurt Brienne now if he doesn't want her to follow him.

This shit is racist as hell but the writing is poor and everyone hated it so I guess it's something.

Now we get to the parley. And idk why Tyrion keeps trying (I mean i guess it's for the baby as well) is clear Cersei would rather die than leave the throne to d (which is just as well cuz d thinks the same).

They try to negotiate but both kweens are too selfish and entitled for it to really work. Missandei gets beheaded, but before she says Dracarys (how sad they don't let her say I love you to Greyworm one last time and instead is used as a permission for d to go bersek on innocent people that are not responsible for Cersei's actions) honestly is disappointing we don't get to see if D would have allowed her and GW to leave, it's sad she doesn't get her own story apart from D's handmaiden and that her own death is not about herself but to cause pain to a white woman (that already has a super racist storyline) and turn her full dark (I mean she has been making the descent on her own just fine whyyy u do this d&d).

That’s it, that’s my take. I am looking forward to next week.

[tarthserjaime]

I agree with this post in principle. Wholeheartedly. Hell it even reflects my own life choices.

However I think it's a fundamental misreading of Brienne's character to say she rejects being a lady because she just wants to be a knight. The show did a piss poor job of showing this, except for one scene in season 5, but if you read the books you'll see that, on the inside at least, Brienne is much more like Sansa than Arya.

Brienne is romantic and sensitive, dreams of love, and threw herself into being a warrior after society made it clear that any attempts on her part to be the highborn lady that she was would be met with scorn because of her size and her looks. (She's canonically very ugly, never mind GChrist's beauty.) And she ended up in Renley's kingsguard *for love* not out of a pure desire for martial prowess.

Brienne's story is more complex than simply rejecting social norms and restrictions on femininity. She didn't not want those things for herself because they didn't appeal to her but because society told her she wasn't worthy of them. Her story is a genderbent take on the Beauty and the Beast tale (per GRRM), with Brienne and Jaime as both the Beauty (inner/outer) and both the Beast (outer/inner). Many Brienne and Braime fans are upset about her ending because it only resolves HALF of her core character arc, and destroys or just "kinda forgets" the other half which is about Brienne finding (indisputably) requited love and reconciling her kind of femininity with her knightly values, talents, and inclinations. If the show had done more justice to the *fully requited love* part of her story before killing off Jaime, then her fate to take white cloak might be easier to swallow.

[Note: It seems like you feel satisfied that it was requited, and I envy you for that takeaway. For me it was *not* sufficiently established in the narrative that it was both requited and, as you so eloquently put it, "with everything that is good and beautiful in him". The writing, directing, and editing choices in episodes 4-6 deeply undermined that reading for me, and it resulted in a popular summary of their love story in broader fandom and the media as fan service, awkward/unnecessary, pity sex, or a "one knight stand" resulting in Brienne being jilted for a more conventionally attractive woman -- even one who hired someone to kill Jaime, which he learned that very same episode.]

Anyway, it seems like there are two arguments here about Brienne's individual character arc and her relationship with Jaime. And I'm sure others could articulate this better. But tl;dr - there are more reasons for disappointment/anger about Brienne's S8 storyline than people just wanting a HEA with marriage and babies for our own heteronormative gratification.

I’m Not A Lady, I Never Was

Here’s the thing, Arya and Brienne never were ladies, nor did they want to be. 

Arya wants adventure and Brienne wanted to be a knight. 

And that’s exactly what they became. People want them to settle down, have babies, have lands - because they feel like that’s an appropriate ending they want for non-traditional looking heroines. 

Even an ugly girl can be a lady. 

Even an ugly girl can be loved my a hot charming warrior or a hot smith. 

An ugly girl can be maiden with a warrior.

An ugly girl stranger with a smith. 

But that’s horse shit. 

I’m an ugly girl. And I’m no lady, I never was. 

My dream was never to have lands, settle down or have children. 

My dream was always adventure, to be something greater than myself, to be known around the world for a craft, a skill, a knowing and not be a lady in some house popping out children. 

And there’s nothing wrong with that. 

I appreciate that Jaime and Gendry were men who loved them, and that they loved them back - but in there is a key fact, one that makes love all the more beautiful - love simply is not enough. Duty, honor, being able to wake and look yourself in the mirror is more important. But it does not make that love less. 

And because they were not ladies they were free to love who they wanted, when they needed to. Arya CHOSE to sleep with Gendry, out of her own agency, and had he said I would sail the world with you she would have gone with him. But he asked her to be Lady of Storm’s End - was she supposed to smile, and thank the Seven - here at last a man who wants me? No. Because that’s not what she wanted. That’s not what her life was about - her life did not revolve around a man who wanted her. Her life revolved around accepting herself - and so she looks him in the eye a man she loved and says I am no lady. I never was. And if you did not know that about me, then how is this going to last?

Brienne CHOSE Jaime. He was loyal to her, he was nothing but kind, and he has shown her that to her, he would always be true and just. He loved her, with everything that is good and beautiful in him. He did what Gendry could not - he stayed, and honored Brienne’s oaths. 

She’s pledged to Sansa he says to Tyrion - that’s why I’m not going South, because she has her oath here, and I would not ask her to break it. 

I’m in love with a lady knight, and so I shall go with her where she please. 

But then Cersei did not surrender. 

Cersei killed Rhaegal.

And Daenerys was sacking the city. 

He knew what it meant, as she knew. 

The two most honorable people in Westeros, the two best generals in Westeros and they knew what it meant. 

So Brienne goes to him. And she does not ask him why. She simply knows. They’re sacking the city, and you can’t save it. But you don’t have to die for it. Stay with me. 

I used to think it a weakness, for you to beg a man to stay with you. 

Now that I see it though, she was saving his life. Again. 

She begged him to stay because she knew his quest for what it was - a suicide mission (though idiot writers let him get captured - jaime Lannister, general of countless battles)

And when he died she picked up the pieces of her life, because duty comes, her quest comes. She had a life before Jaime Lannister, a purpose beyond being someone’s wife and mistress of some land. Evenfall Hall was not what she wanted - the King’s Guard was, and she made it. By the Seven Brienne made it there and no one deserved it more than she. 

They’re not ladies, they never were. And they’re the hope of every single one just like them. 

We don���t need men, or lands or holdings to be considered whole. We need our stories, our adventures. We’re not ladies, we never were. But we can be anything we want to be. 

[mattatouile]

I have a feeling Jaime will disappointment and go back to that toxic ass relationship with Cersei :/

You know, it’s WEIRD how the entire series ended at 8x02 and we didn’t get to see the Battle for Winterfell or King’s Landing! SO STRANGE. But I guess ending on knighting Brienne was super important in the end. 

(I’m only mostly kidding is the sad part.) 

I have precisely 0% faith in D&D as writers. The only writer on this show I ever trusted was Bryan Cogman. The fact that D&D wrote the last four episodes of the series does not bode well for anything that I’ve ever liked about the series. And the commentary from David Nutter (I COULD LITERALLY YELL FOR 20000 WORDS ABOUT HOW SANSA IS NOT JEALOUS OF DANY. THAT IS NOT THE EMOTION SHE IS EXPERIENCING.

It’s super weird that these same people can give us the knighting scene and then so badly execute the first sex scene with Jaime and Brienne and then not give us a single scene between that and Jaime staying at Winterfell and then them continuing to bang it out and then him leaving Winterfell. It’s some utter bullshit. 

I know there’s this weird mix of “EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE” and “LET’S JUST TRUST IN BRAIME” going around. But frankly, I’ve just had to take a break from everything except fanfic because I just cannot trust D&D to understand Braime on a fundamental level.