#esp since flashpoint

[cultofthepigeon]

I do wish Apollo would get a solo or two of his own

[shrinkthisviolet]

since I'm watching those episodes: how are your OCs affected by Flashpoint?

Is this is a safe space to admit I will not be doing Flashpoint in the Morgan AU (and its AU spinoffs) 😅 so Morgan and James are not affected, since it doesn't happen.

However...I haven't ruled out the idea of writing an AU spin-off that does feature Flashpoint, it's something I've been on-and-off considering. And in that case (do keep in mind that these are not finalized by any means, I'm just spitballing...and this does not address consequences, only their lives in the Flashpoint timeline specifically):

Morgan: raised as Jesse Morgan Wells, which means everyone calls her "Jesse", and as with s3 in canon, she's currently in her second year of college and...is either already or about to turn 18. Both her parents, Harrison and Tess, are alive and well, as is her godmother, Tina, whom she calls "Aunt Tina" and loves very much (thus the tragic trio is intact). She worked at Jitters for a bit and thus knows Iris, and Barry's tutoring her in Organic Chem. Barry and Iris, though, still aren't friends, because Morgan hasn't really had any reason to connect them - Barry and Iris in Flashpoint aren't friends, and our Barry ofc wouldn't mention Iris because he has no reason to think Morgan knows her. Though it probably accidentally slips out, and that is how the Westallen reunion can happen (much better than canon, if you ask me)

(and yes, this would be the new life RF!Morgan is given too. Very trippy for her Barry, who at this point would not like her (at mildest))

James: Probably very little tbh. He'd still meet Morgan, they'd still become fast friends and probably eventually date. Things regarding their relationship post-1x15 would unfold slightly differently (I can't give too many details, because spoilers), but they'd still end up being close, just like they do in the main timeline. Some people are just meant to be in your lives 💞

Hopefully that answers your question! I have quite a few gripes with Flashpoint in the show, and while I could fix them, I also have...other plans for the AU that allow me to just get rid of Flashpoint (and its consequences, which is really what I'm glad to be rid of) entirely. When I said I was overhauling the Savitar arc, I meant it 😅

(Jesse and Aminah, ofc, would not be affected regardless due to being from another Earth. Reyna in her own AU is, ofc, from the future, so Flashpoint doesn't affect her)

Taglist (send an ask or DM to be added or removed):

@arrthurpendragon @ocappreciationtag @raith-way @vexic929 @ironverseocs

@thechaoticfanartist @tempests-of-hope @negative-speedforce @starstruckpurpledragon @angst-is-love-angst-is-life

[heroesriseandfall]

Not Wonder Woman writers stealing Cassie’s backstory for Diana 💀💀 And to top it all off Cassie doesn’t even appear in a single Wonder Woman issue in the New 52. They stole from her and then didn’t even let in her in the run for one issue.

[jxthics]

just recently followed you and wanted to say you seem very cool and your art is pretty!!

any thoughts on dick grayson?

thank you! :]

MANY. i have a lot of thoughts on the bats in general i just can't articulate them so i draw and point at it. i love him very much. eldest daughter rage + parenting his own dad. you know in robin year one when he's putting on the robin suit and says smthn like well SOMEone's gotta take care of bruce? holy fuck. and i'm SO glad he's nightwing in blüdhaven i'm glad he sticks out on his own but he also never really gets. away. from that mindset. he's constantly getting dragged back to it and i just want to see him do better outside of bruce like cmon.

i think itd be fun if he got to work with a new team with some of the fab5 and ntt members now that they have their lives as adults instead of having some of them hang around the current teen titans (like why is garth still not really aged....?). i think it was a good independence streak and itd be neat to see him get to do that at an age where being a leader wouldnt be as detrimental to him + build off of "hey we split up and there's unresolved stuff there". idk i know that clashes with post-flashpoint canon a bit but i just miss when he had his little teams, i think its good for him to bounce off of others and i think thats best For Him emotionally when its not w/bruce.

also: i want to see him and damian team up more, i think it was good for both of them. i think dick gets misinterpreted a lot and people forget he's like. pretty defiant! he's angry! he's questioning stuff! ESPECIALLY when he's young and i think he recognizes that a lot in damian. esp because damian is considered dangerous by a lot of people and dick doesnt really seem to see that in him. i just miss their dynamic and i want to see them go back to it now that damians older and theyve had all of the stuff happen since then (see: ric)

also hes trans

[jostenneil]

What plotlines would you like to see with the flash fam? Id love to see the old family back along with the new family, like id love to see Wallace move back to flash comics. I’m exited for more speed force drama. I hope Jai gets more to do. Linda should get an arc to herself, or at least be more included.

I also think Linda and Wally should go on a date. We should get a special Valentine’s issue with it celebrating their love and how we finally have it back.

i would love to see a proper reunion! i know they already had one but wally wasn't even there so they absolutely must have a do-over. in general i really hope that regular flash fam adventures are on jeremy adams's agenda bc that was really the fun of not just volume two but even volume one. i can't really conceive of a wally run that doesn't have jay and bart as a constant feature, and the few times that wally and wallace met were so good and they had a great banter that i would love to see further explored, esp since they're supposed to be actual cousins lol. it would also be nice to see the twins finally interacting with someone since they barely did pre-flashpoint like i think their only interaction with other kids was that one time they stayed in a bunker with lian, which is crazy! they're the babies of the flash fam again and i want to see them interacting with everyone. and yes yes yes i would LOVE for linda to be impt again i really am hoping she's not just going to be the snarky housewife considering how much she was capable of in volume two and how often she fought alongside wally and the rest of the fam. this would never actually happen but i joked on twt that the spot on the totality that was offered to wally should have been offered to her given her experience, exposure, and investigative bent. she'd fit right in with that crowd tbh!

[bluebeetle]

Anyways a big part of jason as red hood is that he is part of the "came back wrong" trope and o think wanting him to be more like his siblings betrays that and ruins the drama of it esp since it def is not done very sastisfyingly bc of events like flashpoint and infinite crisis interrupting thinhsb

[duketectivecomics]

Hey I was wondering if you know the official order of bruce gaining all the kids including harper, Barbara, and stephanie? I know its Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian but where does the other 3 and duke and cass fall in? Tia!!

So I’m gonna assume that you mean the order in which they get adopted, since finding First Appearances is one of the easier things to google for any character. (Getting First Appearance issues afterall is part of the reason some comics retain their value, so it’s usually well documented when a character first shows up. Side note: DCUguide is an excellent resource if you’re looking to comb through appearances for characters, although I’d also recommend asking for reading lists from other fans, since usually those have been curated down to essential storylines only)

I tried to provide actual issue #s where I could, but a lot of the time in comics, it’s usually something that’s dropped or hinted around or casually mentioned rather than outright boldly stated.

Also some of these characters span DECADES and their histories change depending on continuity. So I tried to account for that where I could.

But also canon is fake and everyone in fandom cherry-picks anyways so yknow. Keep THAT in mind too.

Before we dive into this, I wanna have a quick convo on what Legal Guardianship vs Adoption is.

While guardianship includes some of the same responsibilities as adoption, it also comes with a few key differences, such as allowing any living parents (also possibly any living relatives) to contest the guardianship. Adoption would make the child fully and solely the potential parent’s responsibility, and would nullify any legal ‘say’ that the biological parents may have. Also of note, is that  guardianship does not allow the child in question a claim to inheritance unless the guardian specifically wills it to them, as there is again, a bit more of distance that is placed between the child and guardian, as more of a mentorship is expected to take hold. One way to look at it is that adoption is permanent (& usually a longer drawn out process bc of that), while guardianship can be more legally flexible.

With that out of the way, let’s start~

Dick: pre-flashpoint/52, it’s stated often that Dick was actually Bruce’s ward, that Bruce has legal guardianship over Dick. I know this is a nitpick and doesn’t matter bc it’s usually retconned/ignored in favor of Dick being adopted. But I think it’s a fascinating point of potential contention nonetheless. especially given the historical reason, that it was absolutely unheard of at the time for a single man to adopt a child, but no one would bat at eye if he was taking Dick in out of a sense of altruism & duty. Contract this with decades later, when he DOES appear to adopt Jason outright, which puts some friction in place between Dick & Bruce. and well, you’ve got a whole story & conflict to explore right there.

Barbara: Usually dons the Batgirl cowl after Dick becomes Robin (the only exception to that was The Batman (2004) cartoon and it was absolutely galaxy brain of them honestly) She has her own Dad though (idk if y’all know him? Jim Gordon? Yknow? The Commissioner?) so she doesn’t get adopted. She’s considered a core batfam member mostly in the sense that she’s been there so long and esp as she makes herself absolutely essential when she becomes Oracle. She has never, and will likely never be adopted by Bruce (bc again. W h e n is that gonna come up? When Jim dies? L m f a o)

Jason: pre-crisis it’s assumed from the go I guess? I could only find slight confirmation and ended up finding more info that there was a custody battle and that Bruce would won Jason back officially in Detective Comics #548. post-crisis, Jason’s history is redone, though & I remember his adoption being touched on, but could not for the life of me find a particular issue. N52/Rebirth it’s simply assumed from the go as far as I’m aware.

Tim: Batman #654. This was after his father died, though he’d been Robin at this point for at least a decade. For n52/Rebirth as far as I can tell he’s also been outright adopted by Bruce (though I think he’s parents were still alive but in Witness Protection? Idk. I haven’t read at all for Tim’s history there so take that with a heavy grain of salt)

Steph: another one who is not adopted (Crystal Brown is very much alive and taking care of Steph (barring the time Leslie Thompkins squirreled her away after faking Stephs death BUT)) She does show up pretty soon on Tim’s tail when he starts as Robin. Again, she’s considered a staple of the family because of how long she’s been involved with them. I like to think of her like Kimmy in Full House. She’s a Good Friend who’s Constantly Showing Up and is one of the family through mutual agreement on everyone’s part.

Cass: Batgirl (2008) #6, though like Tim, Cass had been Batgirl for nearly a decade at that point in continuity. She’s shown and stated many times that she considers Bruce a father/father figure and likewise that Babs, who had been mentoring her, was the closest she has to a mother. In n52/Rebirth, I have yet to see or hear about official adoption for her, but again. We usually ignore canon on that part anyways. I mean they made her into Orphan so uhhhh. Not super great yknow?

Damian: since he is biologically Bruce’s, it’s never really addressed as far as I’m aware (I have yet to read Damian’s appearances Altho he’s next on my Robin list). I personally think it’d be interesting to explore the fact that he was likely born outside of the country and what that means for Bruce gaining legal custody & whether or not Talia would contest that? I’m sure there’s probably SOME thinkpieces about it out there, but I’ll search for them on my own time eventually

And now we’re getting to *drum roll* Harper and Duke!

Harper: her appearances are mostly kept to the n52 runs, though with Tynion returning to Detective, it’s likely she’s coming back into Rebirth soon. She’s a unique case where, due to her abusive home life, she emancipated herself and took her brother, Cullen, with her. Neither she nor her brother were adopted by Bruce, and as far as I’m aware/understand, they’re fine with it that way. I know Stephanie was living with them at some point (it’s dropped in Batman & Robin: Eternal at least?), so I certainly think it would have been nice if DC also brought them into the fold like Steph. Just a couple of kids who are Really Good Friends with the family and continue to insert themselves in batfam business lmao

Duke: I actually addressed this fairly recently here! Duke’s guardianship (bc like Dick, Duke is not outright adopted by Bruce, likely to afford Duke’s parents the opportunity to regain custody should they recover from Joker’s toxin) its a little more up in the air at this point in Batman & The Outsiders. Since Bruce is very clearly taking both him and Cass away on globetrotting adventures. It would make things EASIER ofc if he is under Bruce’s guardianship. But given that it’s not really addressed, it’s led most of fandom to simply assume it instead. And really? Considering that DC themselves probably doesn’t realize that they’ve written themselves into this corner, it probably won’t be fully addressed or recognized anyways.

So to answer your first question actually: Babs, Steph, and Harper? Not adopted, likely never will be, but they ARE interspersed fairly regularly in the line-up. Everyone else? Varying degrees of being under Bruce’s guardianship if not outright adopted.

We’re all happy that they’re here, though!!! And we love and appreciate them ALL.

[daemons-not-rogues]

@toastedside asked in a gc for rec's of where to start w/ Batman comics and it turns out I have a lot of Opinions™️ about this so I thought I'd make a longer post :)

Basically, it boils down to:

Start with what you want to read!

Admittedly, that's not very helpful if you don't know where in the comics to find the bit you want to read, so we'll work from there! I've listed below what I think can be good entry points to the Batman (& the Batman Family of comics) based on what you might be looking for. [Keeping in mind that this list leans heavily away from DC's Rebirth/New 52... maybe someone who likes the newer stuff enough to keep up with them can help me out there??]

[Note: links go to the full comics on https://readconiconline.to - BUT! I *highly* recommend using an ad-blocker with this site! Some of the ads make me really uncomfy. You have been warned!]

Also, the ⭐s aren't important other than that they represent some of my personal faves :)

1. Looking for slightly-silly, lighthearted classic tales (from long before you were born)?? Try:

Batman: the Classic Casebook (includes The Rainbow Batman⭐ and Batman Meets Bat-Mite)

2. How about stories featuring Batman's two original partners? Check out:

Batgirl/Robin: Year One for an updated (circa 2013) take on Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon's origin stories.

Or, if you've ever heard a reference to Babs' time in Congress and want to know more, try The Batman Family (1975) (Note: this is most definitely part of pre-crisis continuity and has little relation to the rest of the stories on this list, but it's a fun read ☺️)

3. Already know who your favorite Robin is? Are you sure about that? See:

For Dick Grayson, the OG™️ Boy Wonder:

Robin: Year One (above)

A throwback, but Batman & Superman's first Golden-age team up in World's Finest Comics #71 kicks off the "two dads and their son just having a good time" era

Not a Batman comic exactly, but New Teen Titans (1980) #1-8+ has the (pre-flashpoint/infinite crisis) origins of probably the most recognizable cast of the Teen Titans team (& features Dick striking out on his own)

Personally, I have... never really cared for all the retconning in 2005's Nightwing: Year One, so I'd recommend starting with either:

Nightwing (1995), the 4-issue limited run featuring #discowing ⭐ (honestly, the * isn't even for the story. The art is insane absolute gold. Dick's flowing locks. Alfred's green pinstriped suit. The artist's obvious thirst way they draw Dick & esp. when he's stripping off the suit. I just... can't even with this series. It never fails to make me giggle)

Or Nightwing (1996) #1 if finger-stripes are more your style (welcome to the Haven, Dick 😉)

For Jason Todd:

Batman (1940) #408 ⭐ (stealing the tires from the Batmobile will never not be a classic),

Batman (1940) #366-368 ⭐ (pre-crisis, but you will have to pry this version of Dick passing the mantle from my cold, dead hands),

Superman (1937) Annual #11: For the Man Who Has Everything (A throw-back: it's Clark's birthday at the fortress of solitude, and Robin saves the day!)

Legends of the Dark Knight: Norm Breyfogle (TPB, collected 🦇 comics mostly from the 80s, many of which feature Jason as Robin)

For Tim Drake:

Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying (1990) (collected from Batman/Teen Titans, Tim's first appearances after Jason's death),

Robin (1991) (Tim abroad, featuring Shiva and King Snake),

And Robin II (1992) ⭐ (Batman's out of town, but don't worry - Tim and Alfred have got this covered 😆)

For Stephanie Brown:

Honestly, you for Steph you *have* to start with Spoiler's introduction/origins. See: Detective Comics (1937) #647-649 ⭐, and

Showcase '95 #5 ⭐ (for the Spoiler stand-alone story)

From then on, she shows up every few issues in Robin (1993)

For Damian Wayne:

honestly, I... probably wouldn't recommend starting here? Maybe I'm too biased towards the 90s, but I just think you miss out on a ~lot~ of Batfam history if you do

If you're sure though, his first appearance is in Batman (1940) #655 circa 2006

4. Does Oracle's all-around badassery make you swoon? SAME

It's not her earliest appearance (that's in the 80s run of Suicde Squad, believe it or not), but for her origin story, see 'Oracle: Year One', in The Batman Chronicles (1995) #5 ⭐

Birds of Prey is iconique Oracle!Babs. See Black Canary/Oracle: Birds of Prey for the start of their adventures (and if you fall in love like I did, there's a good reading order by ComicBookHerald here, since there are a half-dozen differently-titled one-offs and mini series before the start of the BoP serial in 1999)

5. Love you some Cassandra Cain?? Me too!!

Her first appearance is in Batman (1940) #567 - BUT, it's the middle of the NML run, which is sooo good I recommend the whole thing. Depending on how much you want to bite off, I'd even recomend starting as far back as Batman: Contagion, because it's really really good.

Below I've listed the progression of major arcs in that era (most bridge the entire Batman Family of comics, from Detective Comics, Shadow of the Bat, Robin, and Nightwing, to Azreal, Catwoman, etc.). Any of these could be a good place to pick up the comics!

Batman: Prodigal (after B broke his back in the Knightfall arc, Dick Grayson temporarily takes the cape. Great for Dick & Tim brotherly bonding, plus flashbacks where Dick retells his origins)

Batman: Contagion & Batman: Legacy ⭐ (Ra's Al Ghul tries to take Gotham out with a plague)

Batman: Cataclysm & Batman: Aftershock/Road to No Man's Land

Batman: No Man's Land ⭐⭐ (Cass!!! The whole Batfam!! Oracle and the GCPD!! Huntress!!! Plus the A++ characterization of the rogues *cough*Ivy*cough*Two-Face*)

What do you think? Do you have different recommendations?

[winglssdemon]

I know swtor updates are always on Tuesdays which I'm usually down for since I get lidocaine infusions every Tuesdays and I can do basically SH decorating and some GTN if I bring my laptop with me.

Except I'm REALLY excited for this new update because I absolutely can't wait to try Manaan's daily area and the new operation! I absolutely love operations and being a healer means I can jump into an op p quickly but I gotta wait until tomorrow and I don't wanna lol

The Manaan reputation decos look FANTASTIC and I love getting decos from rep vendors since they're so much cheaper than getting things from the GTN or CM.

I think there's supposed to be a new flashpoint too? I'm not sure on that, but if there is I'm excited for that. I also rly enjoy flashpoints but haven't been doing them lately since group finder seems to mainly be giving out Black Talon or Esseles and there's only so many times I want to do those esp since they are long and flashpoints and they're both more on the boring side.

But yeah I'm so excited for the 7.1 update and I'm so gonna be on the game tomorrow asap.

[theroseiris]

The only silver lining of the distance between Iris and Nora is that it will likely be blessedly brief. I don't think the writers would have prolonged bad feelings taint all this WA family goodness we have coming our way and expect it will be resolved within the first two or so episodes of the season. I still wish it wasn't a thing at all, but at least it probably won't last. I remember being super worried about Joe & Iris' post-FP relationship and they were fine by the end of episode 2.

They said it’ll be revealed why Nora is acting like this with Iris in 5x02 but didn’t say it’ll be over by then. Jessica said she hopes it’ll be resolved soon, so I kinda feel they will make it last longer than 2 episodes and use this plot as ~the angst~ of 5A because they usually make someone angry at someone\something in the begging of the season and Iris was in that place in 4x01\4x02 and now again in S5… If they waste half the season on this and make Iris feel hurt by her own daughter and then solves it in 5B and don’t give them enough time to bond or have so many beautiful moments like what I think Barry and Nora will have then I’ll be very mad (lol I know I sound dramatic but this is really upsetting me and I was so excited for Iris\Nora since she showed up to their wedding in S4 and I did not want any of this mess!!)

Iris was hurt by her mother for leaving her and raising Wally alone and I’m sure Iris thought about how if her mom wasn’t sick\dying she would’ve kept living her life without meeting her (Iris and Francine deserved better). Iris was hurt by her father because he lied to her all her life about her mother (and lied too about Barry in S1) and even if we didn’t see it, the fight between them still happened after FlashPoint. Now Iris is also hurt by her daughter!!! WHY Iris always gets hurt by her family and must have some kind of tension\ distant with them in every season? Barry gets to have beautiful-crying-worthy relationships with his mother and father, and now with Nora (ofc I love Barry and I love these relationships) but Iris always has an issue with her family that needs to be resolved or forgiven. She doesn’t deserve this!

These writers hate or can’t write any female relationships and mothers. Both Iris and Caitlin were\are not close with their mothers and now Iris and Nora too?? I might be overreacting and by ep 4 Iris and Nora will hug and be cute with each other, but until then I have all of these bad feelings and thoughts and I need to let it out. lol

I hope whatever it was that happened between them in the future, it was recent and happened months before Nora time traveled and she left the future angry at her mom so she needs time (in the present) to get over it… but before that, Nora and Iris had the best relationship and they were so close. IMO it is not realistic and ooc for Iris to not be close with her own children, esp if she was alone and the only parent they had and she raised them without Barry. :(

[pharawee]

Okay so I've read the Umbara flashpoint dialogue and 

P sure that Theron’s deep undercover here as a double agent. Esp since he’s welcomed into “the Order” (if it’s Star Cabal my agent is gonna flip 5315325 tables) at the end of the flashpoint. It just doesn’t make sense at all otherwise. Theron’s a spy, he’s done the whole “I’ll recklessly risk my life to save the Republic” spiel before (it’s basically who he is). And not telling his LI/the Commander? Totally his modus operandi because A N G S T

[samcarpnter]

have you watched invasion yet?

i am currently watching it! just finished the supergirl (if it technically counts ??) and the flash episodes of it and am about to start the arrow one! i’m not entirely sure how i feel about it yet, like i love everyone interacting together esp since a lot of it is for the first time but i am very over flashpoint. obviously everyone from other shows need to know about it and have every right to be upset, and barry deserves to understand just how much he messed things up i’m just very very ready for the whole storyline to be over (luckily i think it will be after the crossover, just annoyed that the storyline happened at all, but when have superhero shows ever not disappointed me?)

[valeriemperez]

I feel like it shouldn't have to be this hard to understand a storyline, lol. I feel like I need to draw lines on a board. Where is Barry's transparent board when you need it.

I feel like you subconsciously inspired my circle example, lol. It’s a time travel theory you can read up on here, if it helps.

I guess that makes sense, but I find that so unsatisfying :( I hope that’s not what it is, but with the voicover specifically having the part where Barry says he created time remnants during the discovery it seems very likely.

Yeah, we’ll see if they come up with a different explanation!

It’s like those optical illusions of the never-ending staircase. It has no point of origin and as long as you follow it, it will repeat itself.

Yes, thank you!

But even 2050 ish Barry wouldn’t be Sav Bar (esp if sav is a remnant) since why would he warn them. And there still had to be a reason that that Barry decided he needed to send a message to the past in that year. Also, Barry, I love you, but next time just say exactly what’s going on and who is who. No cryptic messages. Unless he was trying to create chaos maybe?

Right, 2056 Barry is not Savitar, but he would have helped to create Savitar in his past. It’s possible he just had his “Eureka” moment and figured out who Sav was, but I totally agree that his method of sending the message was nearly useless.

what does it mean when Savitar says he got the idea to escape from Flashpoint? or that being trapped in the Speedforce means that the person is “outside” the different timelines? how does this apply to the causal loop theory?

It means that Savitar didn’t know his next move until he was in the Speedforce, where at some point he saw Flashpoint take place. Like, there has to be a time before the time remnant either realized he was Savitar or decided to become Savitar, you know? The time remnant started off knowing it needed to fight Savitar but then realized Savitar was him. 

One big problem is we don’t know where in his loop Savitar is and whether the Savitar who escapes the speedforce in 3.15 is chronologically older than the one Barry traps in 2020. Because if he is, then Barry shouldn’t  be trapping him as that will just perpetuate the cycle.

[jostenneil]

Hi, what has happened since Barry returned that made you dislike him? Or rather, do you dislike him?

i don't think i dislike HIM him it's more that i dislike what editorial has made of him and how they've used him to regress so much of the canon that was built prior to his resurrection. i think the harms of flashpoint are pretty obv but what's also frustrating is having to sort of do this whole backtrack to where wally has to work to reestablish himself when he already did that after barry died. moving out of barry's shadow and establishing his own legacy was a huge part of waid's flash run and that slowly started being worked back when johns came onto the book and decided to start centering barry as a primary figure in wally's internal conflicts. that's not to say that i think barry should never be present in stories about wally, but i think there was a difference in wally looking up to barry and seeing him as inspiration and guidance versus being brought back into the shadow of wondering whether he would ever be as good enough as barry when waid wrote concrete arcs to tackle that very notion. additionally what i think made that new direction worse is that it involved johns heavily emphasizing upon barry being a cop and doing the things that cops have to do, like use lethal force, or stand strong with your fellow cops even if they're doing something wrong, which. . . was just all around very unpleasant to read about. barry's role as a police scientist wasn't so heavily emphasized in his original flash run from what little of it i remember like it was just a job that he did and that gave him some good background on science matters but it wasn't really used to ground his personality or his morals, esp since he wasn't even a real cop, he was just the guy who worked in the lab with evidence. he was for the most part a good guy at heart who cared about his family and about saving people. and even with the arc where he killed reverse flash, his decision and whether he could have handled the situation differently was brought into question, which to me stands in really stark contrast with the way barry's choices were depicted by johns and the identity crisis tie-in stuff. aside from that, i also just think the implications of flashpoint on his character are. really bad lol. like i know rebirth retconned it to say that oh no abrakadabra is actually the reason why these people disappeared! but it's incredibly lazy (not to mention proves just how lost flash writers would be without mark waid bc they LOVE to reuse his stuff and somehow mutilate it instead of coming up with anything original) and i think it also just felt very jarring next to what wally had been built into as the flash bc like, so much of his run was about selflessness and how you can't put your own trauma or fears above the greater good. but here we have barry more or less shifting the whole fabric of time bc he goes back to save his mom WHO WAS GIVEN AN ENTIRELY NEW HISTORY JUST TO MAKE FLASHPOINT HAPPEN. like the whole of it is just so contrived and i think it really drives in just how much johns was stuck in the past and on highlighting barry again to the point that he was willing to destroy anything and everything that had made the flash mythos enjoyable in the two decades since before he took over. and within context of rebirth it's just esp shitty how flashpoint's consequences are used to make wally go psycho to the point of killing other mentally ill people, which they then had to retcon THAT as well in the recent flash annual bc the reception of it was so bad

so tldr i don't necessarily hate hate barry i just think his resurrection has done more harm than good over the years and that he was more likeable and easier to admire when he was still dead

[bluebeetle]

15 for the superhero ask just DO IT

ok rant about a fave where do I BEGIN. actually i have a bunch of onions sorry.

ok 1) wanda maximoff deserves so much better than all the BS she’s been put through with all the trauma and acting like mental illness makes you a villain and then trying to erase her jewishness like UGH. also white washing her in the movies AND barely having her interact with her kids (especially poor tommy)

2) wally west. HAVE YOU SEEN WHAT WALLY HAS BEEN THROUGH?????? ok first, barry allen comes back in the 00s even when no one wanted that white bread boring ass who died in the 80s. he shoulda stayed dead. and basically barry replaces wally as the flash and wally gets screwed over for awhile (and is even mean to hartley during countdown which is sooo OOC). then wally dies in flashpoint bc barry allen wanted his mommy. 

then the reset happens and… wally doesn’t show up for THREE. YEARS. Three Full Years. and when he comes back he’s black, which is chill except they then pull a vaguely racist white saviour story with barry and wally as the angry black kid, and completely erase wally’s personality while also giving him a bad costume. and then kinda ignore him for awhile

after that rebirth happens and they decided yknow what, wally HAS suffered too much. lets bring him back! and make him kid flash–oh wait sorry, thats two different wallys. yeah bc apparently appeasing racists is more important than giving the current wally west an actual good personality (Tho they do sort eventually do that, and a better costume) so they bring pre52 White Wally back and its annoying and dumb that thers two flash characters named Wally West with the exact same powers BUT THEN

they decide that fucking over wally fans isnt done yet because White Wally becomes a murderer for no reason except ableism against the mentally ill and having lost his family, tries to cover it up, and then gets like fucking??? doctor manhanttens powers??? for no reason like STOPPPPP also he hasnt talked to hartley, his bff, in like a decade now. thanks. anyways kienyan is Best Wally

3) ok dami’s been having a character assassination as well between that weird illegal prison he had (which??? is so ooc???? for him now??? maybe 2009 dami woulda done it but not 2019 dami???????) and then being blamed for alfreds death just. UGH. 

4) when will the real dick grayson return from the war. also can writers stop implying his adoptive family isnt his real family lol

5) writers stop making bruce wayne an abusive dad challenge. hes a flawed father but he CARES. He LOVES JASON!! HE LOVES ALL HIS KIDS!! stop

6) speaking of bat fam, talia’s whole character assassination by taking her from a troubled femme fatale who was not overly cruel and did care about people and really truly loved bruce to a r*pist who is fine with killing her own ELEVEN YEAR OLD CHILD ???? yeah. fuck off. also racism 

7) hey speaking of movies with wanda, i dont hate movie loki but i am so so sos so fucking mad that we will probably never get the genderfluid bisexual loki from the comics. UGH. 

8) the fact that babs can walk again is BS and she shoulda been in bop esp since they erased cass’s disability. also cass has rly been screwed lately AND steph god

9) DUKE IS A ROBIN YALL GET IT TOGETHER 

i could go on but there you go

[naughtylokiconfessionstories]

Loki's Apology II: The Press Conference

By:  jotun-philosopher

A/N: I figured that in an in-universe context, Loki making an apology (like the one in my last fic) would create a massive media storm, and that things would get… interesting… pretty quickly, ‘cause, y'know, Loki + reporters XD I guess I’ve settled on the ’S.H.I.E.L.D.-backed’ idea for the apology, ‘cos this ficlet wouldn’t make much sense otherwise… Caution: possible minor spoilers for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (esp. S4) (Bonus: spot the random Discworld reference!) (Disclaimer: I have no idea how this sort of press conference would actually work, so I’ve pretty much pulled the proceedings out of my arse XD)

SCENE XX.X

EXTERIOR: OUTDOOR PRESS CONFERENCE SETUP, DAY

[DIRECTOR MACE is near the podium, twiddling with last-minute details. LOKI, in his black suit, stands slightly behind him and to his left, looking uncomfortable and fiddling with his left palm, while THOR stands on his left, holding Loki’s arm and looking slightly grim. Arrayed behind them are Daisy, Coulson (carrying Bambino – the Destroyer gun), and other agents. A crowd of various REPORTERS and members of the public are in attendance, variously chattering, shifting warily and eyeing Loki with varying levels of hostility. MACE steps up to the podium.]

MACE

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for attending. I am Jeffrey Mace, Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. We are here today so that you can put to Loki [gestures towards him; Loki gives a tense, unsmiling nod] any questions you might have for him after his recent apology for the events in New York in 2012. I—

REPORTER #1

[interrupting] Director Mace, are we safe here? What is there to stop this maniac [points at Loki, who looks annoyed] from simply attacking us again?

MACE

[diplomatic and reassuring] Ma'am, there is no cause for alarm. Loki has been thoroughly psychologically vetted by the best professionals S.H.I.E.L.D. has available, who have deemed him safe to attend this event in person. [REPORTER #1 looks sceptical, while Loki rolls his eyes snarkily] Furthermore, Thor himself offered to supervise his brother today [Thor waves and waggles Mjollnir while smiling slightly] and S.H.I.E.L.D.’s most formidable agents also volunteered to keep Loki in check—

[Daisy waves to the crowd and makes a 'behave or I’ll Quake your ass’ gesture to Loki, while Coulson brandishes Bambino with an 'I know what this does now’ raised eyebrow; both manage to look simultaneously badass and adorkable. Loki just looks annoyed.]

—so I can assure you that you need have no concerns for your safety. And now, without further ado, here is Loki to answer your questions.

[Mace steps down from the podium, to much flashing of cameras. Loki moves towards it, ducking a couple of thrown missiles along the way, but is briefly paused by Thor giving him a quick, encouraging 'you can do this’ squeeze on the shoulder. Loki accepts it and the two share a brief, complicated brotherly look before he gives a quick nod and continues to the podium]

LOKI

So, umm… first question?

REPORTER #1

Why did it take you so long to make this apology? It’s been over five years since the Battle of New York.

LOKI

[slowly, with a certain flatness]

From a psychological perspective, I was not capable of making the apology before now, because I was so deeply in denial about my role in the events, as well as being consumed with anger about certain things that happened prior to my encountering the Chitauri. [a bit of brittle chirpiness creeps into his tone and he starts speaking slightly more quickly] In practical terms, of course, I was unable to apologise owing to being locked in the palace dungeons up to the time of the Convergence and, afterwards, due to an… interesting concatenation of circumstances stemming from the Dark Elves’ attack on Asgard [crowd murmurs in surprise], I was carrying out extremely important and highly classified political duties for the Asgardian government, so… [gives a slightly manic not-quite-a-smile; in the background, Thor’s expression tightens briefly]

REPORTER #2

What prompted you to finally make your apology?

LOKI

A few things – psychologically recovering to the point where I was able to speak the words and mean them, thinking about what my m… certain people whose opinion I have always valued would want, and S.H.I.E.L.D.’s joint heads of Science & Technology introducing me to Undertale. [flurry of disbelieving noise from the crowd; Loki holds up a hand and continues cheerfully] I’m quite serious! They recommended the game to me during a physical assessment, as having some very cogent moral commentary that happens to be extremely relevant to my own actions. And so it proved. All I’ll say is: flowers should not be that blooming disturbing!

[appreciative chuckles from the crowd]

REPORTER #3

Why did you include that bit at the end about 'do not less your losses make you hateful’? It seemed a little out of step with the rest of the speech.

LOKI

[serious, with strength and emotion]

I’m aware of a great deal of anti-Inhuman xenophobia in current discourse, which some of its proponents support by citing the Chitauri attack. Quite apart from the fact that that’s total bollocks, ehehe – the Chitauri have nothing whatsoever to do with any aspect of the existence of Inhumans – I know from bitter personal experience that lashing out at others in rage or grief, causing them pain, whether these others are connected to the source of one’s hurt or not, achieves nothing positive – only further pain – and has a mentally corrosive effect on the one lashing out. Furthermore, I can identify with the Inhuman side of the equation in some ways, so this issue is something of an emotional flashpoint for me. If preventing even one person from having to experience that kind of hurt will help to atone for the damage I caused, then I’ll do what I can.

[a beat, awkward silence – it’s pretty clear that none of the crowd expected THAT answer. After a moment of miscellaneous shuffling and staring-at-feet, REPORTER #4 coughs politely]

REPORTER #4

You alluded to having stabbed or killed an Agent Coulson at some point during the incident, but that very same agent has been noticeably active in recent times – how’s that possible?

LOKI, MACE AND COULSON

[cheerfully, in sync]

That’s classified!

REPORTER #1

You alluded to a 'complicated context’ for your actions. [Loki nods] Can you clarify that?

LOKI

[grimly]

Not without dissolving into a screaming wreck while being beset with horrible flashbacks, I’m afraid – I’ve not recovered *that* far. [humourless half-smile]

REPORTER #1

Are you a Frost Giant [Loki flinches as though struck with a half-brick in a sock] – what’s the word? – [with a hard J/G sound] Jo- Jot-

LOKI

[annoyed]

[correct pronunciation] Jotun? That’s not something I wish to disclose either way.

REPORTER #1

Is it relevant to your 'context’ and the condition you mentioned being in when you arrived on Earth?

LOKI

Relevant? [bitter laugh] To my having been afflicted with heat exhaustion? [shakes his head while making incoherent laugh/distress noises and sagging slightly against the podium. Thor rushes up, glares briefly at Reporter #1 and puts a supporting arm around Loki’s shoulders]

THOR

[sotto voce]

Are you all right, brother? Do you need to step away?

LOKI

[sotto voce]

I’ll be fine, just… [draws a shaky breath] Just give me a couple of seconds…

[Thor nods. Loki draws a few, slightly steadier, breaths and seems to collect himself. Thor gives him a quick side-hug and backs off a bit, but stays close by, looking wary]

LOKI

[slightly forced, 'pay no attention to my little breakdown’ cheerfulness]

Any less… invasive… questions?

REPORTER #5

What’s your opinion on the views that’ve been making the rounds recently, that you should have been allowed to conquer the planet in 2012, or that you should be allowed to rule the world, or at least the US, now?

LOKI

[genuinely cheerful]

Well, given the state of my mind in 2012, having me take over anything would have been a pretty dreadful idea! Now, though, if people really want my rule, and there’s a vacancy… [makes a shrug-ish gesture like the one in this picture – I don’t know how to describe it in words, sorry XD] …lead me to it! Ehehehe [grins]

[rumble of amusement from the crowd. A woman wearing a 'Yuri!!! On Ice’ T-shirt pipes up, looking mischievous]

BYSTANDER

Did you really have sex with a horse?

[the S.H.I.E.L.D. contingent get varying expressions of 'WTF?’ and 'Uh oh’, while Thor facepalms slightly – he knows this story – and Loki looks positively gleeful]

LOKI

[massive grin]

Nope! I made that one up to mess with a bard who was acting like the skaldic equivalent of a tabloid journalist. [nervous chuckles from the reporters] No, Sleipnir was a random mutation produced in the way horses normally come about – no shapeshifting involved. [chuckles to himself and looks even more mischievous] If you want amusing anecdotes about me and hoofed mammals, there’s always the Goat Incident— [Thor gets an 'OH CRAP’ expression and braces to leap] —which was reported in the Prose Edda, although Sturlusson took it waaay out of cont-mmppphhhhhhh! [Thor leaps on him, claps a hand over his mouth, wraps his other arm around Loki’s upper torso and forcibly drags him from the podium]

THOR

We do not speak of the Goat Incident!

[beat]

MACE

[approaches the podium]

End of conference… I guess?