#episode 15x20

[jensensitive]

re: "I'm proud of us" in 9x23 vs "I'm proud of you" in 15x20

Jensen: In fifteen, Dean knew he was hanging it up. He was gonna hang it up, and he needed [Sam] to continue. But not continue to find a way to get him back, none of that. So he needed-- Dean needed Sam to understand uh, how proud of him he was in a way of like-- it was an "I love you and I always will but I gotta go now." Whereas, I don't think in nine Dean was ready to go. He was like, I didn't-- yknow, up to this point, let's see where we go from here, but up to this point, if this is the end, then I'm really proud of what we've done. But then it was like, "no this is the end for me. And don't try to save me. Cause I'm-- I'm tired. And I'm ready to go. But I need you to know something. And that is that I'm proud of you."

[njcon24]

[mlobsters]

winchester family photos

season 1

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season 15

posted here about the repurposing of the john and mary picture, including john removal

[mementokore]

i have seen every and all episodes of supernatural except for one - the very last one. i have never watched 15x20 ever because back when it aired, i heard spoilers about what happens and i thought to myself "if i don't watch it, it doesn't happen"

till this day it has not happened. and i'm glad about it whenever i read a post about that damned last episode. but i will always be wondering about it. maybe... one day... i'll watch it. just maybe.

[unkindledangell]

Congratulations to Destielers for 15x18 and Wincesties for 15x20 🎉

I’d love to congratulate us Sastielers but the writers didn’t even let Sam have his gay goodbye with Castiel *sob*

[perfectthewayyouare]

breaking news: jared shares information about a lost spn episode that never aired

[mrcowboydeanwinchester]

sorry i still find it so absolutely batshit insane that dean rationalises his death in 15x20 as something that was "meant to happen", that he was "supposed to go out this way". you are the free will boy. you have just spent the last season, nay, the last FIFTEEN YEARS fighting to escape every narrative and boundary to be placed upon you that told you you had to go out blaze of glory hunting style. the idea of destiny and fate has driven you so insane you almost killed your child and raised a gun to your brother's head. and you have literally just killed god. AND THEN. you are stood dying in the FINALE saying it's okay because it was always meant to happen this way???????????? WHAT WAS THE POINT. OF ANY OF IT.

[wraithlafitte]

finally finished supernatural….. i was crying the whole way through episodes 17-20 ESPECIALLY 20 dude it should’ve ended with 19 😔 that was a more climactic episode than 20, i feel like 20 was more for the emotional aspect than the story aspect

(spoilers under cut)

everything about dean’s death and how sam dealt with it i was sobbing

like how the dog was following him around bc he didn’t know where dean was PLSSS the way dean’s room was exactly how it showed him fucking it up that morning PLS good lord i cannot

the single toast…. the way sam jumped at the toaster…. the way he had to bring miracle on a hunt bc there was nobody there to take care of him…. the way he turned off all the lights bc nobody was there…

also got me wondering if he ever went back to the bunker at all bc it never showed him there after that but i assume he moved his stuff out and cleaned dean’s room? i mean obviously he moved into a house but if he stopped hunting then did he need to clean out the MoL lore stuff?? would he bring those books anyway because he likes reading?? did he stop hunting altogether once his kid was born?

so many unanswered questions tbh more than if it had just ended at episode 19

[mintconditiondean]

I rewrote the ending montage of 15x20 so that everything is almost the same but also, I think, a lot better -

...

DEAN: Enters Heaven. Finds Bobby outside of the Roadhouse. Has their conversation. Bobby points him towards the Impala, which is waiting for him on the road. Dean stands.

...

SAM: We see Sam standing next to a burning pyre; the wrapped body burning on it can only be Dean. As he stands in shocked silence, the first notes of "Carry On My Wayward Son" start to play. The song continues, a montage, as we watch what happens next.

...

SAM: Grieving Dean. He looks around the bunker. It's empty; no Cas, no Jack, and now no Dean. Sam decides that he refuses to isolate himself anymore. He packs his things and leaves. He gives the bunker one final look before closing the door. The bunker lights goes dark behind him. He'll pass the key on to someone else.

...

DEAN: He walks away from Bobby and the Roadhouse towards the Impala. Runs his hand over the black finish as he walks slowly to the driver's door. He opens it and gets in. He's in Heaven now, and he's supposed to rest; but he didn't want to die, and he's not ready to stop living- changing- growing. He starts the car and drives. He has a lot to think about.

...

SAM: He knocks on a house's front door. He looks nervous; he's holding all of his personal effects in the bag on his shoulder. Everything he wanted to keep of Dean's, Cas's and Jack's is in the trunk of the Impala. When the door opens, Eileen is on the other side. They look at each other, both silent. Their expressions are of unbearable sadness and infathomable hope. After a moment, they embrace. Both are crying.

...

DEAN: He's been driving for a long time. He doesn't know if it's been moments or years. The scenery shifts from mountains, to boundless fields of yellow grass, to dense and lively forest, to a desert, to an ocean cliffside. He's been thinking; thinking about what he wants. What he thinks he deserves.

...

SAM: We see Sam and Eileen host a dinner party with Donna, Jody and the girls. We see Garth visiting with Bess and their kids. Sam and Eileen look happy. There are photos of everyone they've ever loved hanging on the walls throughout their home.

...

DEAN: The Impala rumbles to a stop on a bridge overpassing a mountain stream. Dean gets out of the car and walks to the rail to gaze out over the flowing water. He hopes that Sam is doing well without him, but Sam's happiness isn't Dean's priority anymore. Dean wants his own happiness. He's had time to think, and he's ready to go find something of his own, something he wants for himself. He can't be alive anymore, but that doesn't have to mean his journey is over. Thing is, he doesn't want to travel it alone.

...

SAM: Sam and Eileen have a baby. We watch as they raise it. The baby grows from an infant to a young boy. Sam smiles with fondness and sadness at a framed photo of himself, Dean, and Bobby sitting on the hood of the Impala while he carries his son to his bedroom. When Sam tucks the little boy into bed, we see that the child's personalized headboard reads "DEAN". We can assume that Sam is going to live a long, happy life.

[The last notes of "Carry On" plays as the camera rises, panning up and away from Sam and Dean Jr., before returning to Heaven; to Dean. There is no music anymore, just the ambient sounds of the rushing stream and the forest.]

DEAN: The camera is on Dean in profile. He's still looking out over the water, arms braced against the railing. He looks content, and a little determined, but not fulfilled. It's not over, yet.

Suddenly, though we hear nothing, Dean seems to sense a new presence behind him. He straightens, and a knowing expression crosses his face. The camera pans to follow Dean as he turns around. There, in the middle of the bridge, standing next to the Impala, is Castiel.

Castiel gazes at Dean with a warm, soft smile, and even softer eyes. He's been waiting a long time to see Dean Winchester again, but the wait was worth every single moment. Dean is every bit as beautiful as Castiel remembers.

CAS: "Hello, Dean."

The camera is back on Dean, showing his head and shoulders with face centered in shot. He stares past the camera at Cas for a moment, eyes filling with wonder, before a broad smile breaks across his face. He looks to be overflowing with love. This might be the happiest we have ever seen him.

[Fade to black. Credits.]

[whateverthedragonswant]

This might be a hot take but I've gotta get this off my chest:

I have seen so many times in the past two years the point being made by a particular section of the fandom that Sam was the hero of SPN, the "Luke Skywalker" of the series as Kripke himself stated, and that the finale ending made sense for not only Sam getting to live but also for Dean's ending. And in the very same breath, it's mentioned that the show was always about the brothers, no one else, that's what Kripke always wanted, etc., but this argument is always made from a very pro-Sam slanted/skewed anti-ship (and sometimes anti-Dean) point of view without taking into consideration of just how much the story of SPN evolved even before Kripke left the show.

Like say what you will about Sam being the hero of the story, and I'm not going to disagree with you about that being Kripke's original intention because you're right. Sam was the main protagonist; that's clear from the outset of the series. The whole first season is everything being told from Sam's POV. It's evident in every single episode in how each case has resolution thanks to Sam. He is made to be the hero. The whole arc of season 1 is about Sam being dragged back into this world due to his desire for revenge for what happened to Jessica which turns into something more aka Sam is naturally a hunter and he wants to help people/help his family->Dean. It's even Sam in the season finale that chooses a different way compared to John's quest for revenge by choosing Dean/his family over his revenge.

So, yes, you're right when you say in the beginning of the series that Sam was the hero/main protagonist. Absolutely. But what is not being mentioned/realized is that somewhere along the way, during Kripke's era, Dean's own story within the series became just as integral to the main story like Sam's as did their relationship as brothers. Kripke developed the story to include both. They both become essential to the main overhead arc of the entire show. The whole reason John and Mary even got together (through Heaven's intervention as per SPN canon) was to bring about both Sam and Dean's existence. Dean becomes the complement to Sam's role. We find out that Sam is the chosen vessel for Lucifer, and then we find out Dean is the chosen vessel for Michael, which leads to the showdown between Heaven and Hell essentially through the two. Both have a decision to make; both are tapped on the shoulders by both sides (i.e. Cas/Ruby); both are essential to the main plot while having their own separate arcs/journeys. Dean is no longer a side character or even the "Han Solo". His story is developed and we not only see his own hero's journey that he has to go on (when physically separate from Sam for example; going into the future though this is still intertwined with Sam's journey itself; going back in time, etc.) but his own desires, thought processes, relationships (outside of Sam), are also brought into the forefront for his story. Can this happen with side characters? Sure. But that's not what happens here because Kripke not only develops/beefs up Dean's story but also interweaves it with Sam's very carefully, to the point that the show doesn't work without both characters. Hence, Sam is no longer the sole main protagonist.

Which is why, for example, Dean is the one to kill the YED even though Sam had been determined to make YED pay for what happened to Jessica. And Kripke masterfully balances the main plot between the two as the show develops, so much so that we get payoff for Sam's journey (which leads up to Swan Song but I'll get to that in a moment), by fulfilling big plot points such as his killing Lillith and setting Lucifer free. He even still gets the hero's end by choosing to sacrifice himself to save Dean and the world in 5x22. Kripke beautifully takes Sam's original journey and tweaks it in such a way that while Sam had his dad's training and a similar quest for vengeance, he made a different decision and he did that while having much more on his shoulders (literally the weight of the world) than John ever did. And we still get payoff for what was initially set up way back in season 1. We get a close out to the Jessica story line, to Sam's powers story line, all of it, before Kripke dipped out.

And in the same fashion, we also got a closeout to Dean's story line. If he would ever get out of hunting, would he allow Sam to go into that dark night alone, would he be the same as John -- all of it.

So the ending to 5x22 absolutely makes sense. And we get: Dean surviving and going to live a "normal" life & Sam making the sacrifice (as the hero the series started out with) while also somehow surviving & making his way back to his brother. That's Kripke's ending. Now to be fair, Sam making his way back to Dean more likely had to do with them setting up the next season, but ultimately he wasn't dead after throwing himself and Michael into the pit.

Then in the later seasons, which some fans like to exclude or dismiss (but it's still part of Sam and Dean's official story), their stories were still integral to the main story but they had also evolved to include other characters (such as Cas, Jody, Donna, etc) and they had developed over the next ten years. So when looking at the series as a whole, Dean and Sam's endings in the series finale do not make sense. Kripke already got his ending in 5x22 and the show moved past that, and quickly set out to dismantle it in 6x01. This theme continued and the idea of free will became the center stage even more than it had in the first five seasons. By the time the last season rolled around, Dean and Sam had different desires, their stories had not only been completely intertwined to make both of them the main protagonists but both the heroes, and how their ends/hunting boots were hung up in the end would both matter.

So if you watched all of the seasons, 15x20 doesn't make sense. Because Dean and Sam wanted very different things by that point, they had both built relationships with other characters (Cas and Jack were the biggest ones but those two were not the only ones), and their story had effectively changed.

And if you didn't watch any of the later seasons (or you dismiss it), 15x20 still doesn't make sense because this wasn't the ending Kripke had for the seasons 1-5 Sam and Dean. If anything, it felt like it could have been 1x02 instead of the Wendigo episode, ending Dean and Sam's story in two short episodes with nothing in between.

That does not make sense.

Imagine we were discussing the show Buffy the Vampire Slayer. We all know how that ended (I'm talking TV only, not the comics). Buffy saved the world, she survived (finally!), and she was free from Sunnydale. Now imagine she had been killed off. Not only would it feel redundant but it wouldn't feel like a true ending for the story told over the past 7 seasons. What would have been the point of her being resurrected in season 6 then? What would have been the point of her relationship with Spike, Dawn, and the others? Could Joss Whedon have made it into another hero's sacrifice (instead of Spike doing the heroic/redeeming sacrifice), that she got Dawn, Willow, Xander, and the other Slayers ready to defend the world that she would die saving? Sure. But again, when you compare that ending to her story, it doesn't really make sense. There is no payoff, for the viewers or for the character of Buffy. She had earned that ending, the freedom from the Hellmouth and from the burden of being alone as the only Slayer (aka Chosen One). Which is why we get that great shot in the end:

Willow: "Yeah, the First is scrunched so...what do you think we should do, Buffy?"

Faith: "Yeah, you're not the one and only Chosen anymore. Just got to live like a person. How's that feel?"

Dawn: "Yeah, Buffy, what are we going to do now?"

The hero, who had already made the hero's sacrifice more than once, finally earned the ending that she wanted: freedom and the ability to choose to live her life for herself. The burden of being The Slayer had been removed and spread out to others (effectively building a network, hold that thought for a minute), she was no longer alone, she had defeated the Big Bad (which was effectively the Hellmouth since it kept creating/calling to these other Big Bads she faced over the years as well as the monsters she started out fighting), she might have more to face in the future, but it's up to her now what she wants to do. She is given the choice aka free will and that's what she earned after everything she had gone through during the duration of the show.

That's an ending.

This isn't:

Death wasn't supposed to be their ending. While some might be able to turn to you and say 'but they end up in Heaven together, they're at peace', that doesn't make it a payoff ending, for the viewers (early seasons only or all seasons) or for the characters of Sam and Dean. That's not effective storytelling. Neither ending was heroic or earned.

Dean dying, while again wouldn't make sense given the story, could have been painted as heroic if it happened during the battle with Chuck for example. Their final battle with the ultimate Big Bad. Even though they both died heroically quite a few times before this, it could have been done and while ultimately disappointing, it could have been the hero's end for Dean (just like Sam's end in 5x22 was the hero's end for him). This death wasn't heroic; instead it was from vampire stunt guy #4 who apparently juiced before that scene getting an upper hand on the hero and impaling him on a piece of sharp rebar. During a milk run hunt. Now imagine if that were Sam. Ask these people who think that by the end of the series that Sam was the only hero, ask them if that happened to Sam instead, would they still be praising the finale? Or imagine that was Buffy. That she survived like she does, the Hellmouth in Sunnydale was finally gone, only to be killed by a random forgettable vampire who she had faced off with in the first season and got away, only to suddenly return and take the hero out, thus negating the payoff/earned ending she and the viewers got. Doesn't make sense, right?

Now imagine if say Dawn was killed off in a similar way (though tbf Dawn's role was not the same as Dean's in the story) or during the battle, and we see Buffy living her life through the years, getting out of slaying, having a family which consists of a daughter she names Dawn, wearing her own Party City wig and looking at a picture of Dawn all teary-eyed, dying in her sleep as an old lady, and then reuniting with her in Heaven. It doesn't work. Not only because Dawn had a very different role in the show when it came to the main story but also because it DOESN'T WORK. What kind of hero's end is that? What payoff is that? Is it great that Sam gets to choose to get out of hunting and have a family? Sure. But that's not where his story was headed, in later seasons, or even during Kripke's era.

Going back to the network thing I mentioned with Buffy, Sam had done that. Not only were there strong hints of leader!Sam near the end of the series, but he had effectively built a network of hunters for a time until Alt!Michael killed them all. But he and Dean still had a network going through Jody, Donna, Claire, even Jack until he turned God!Jack. Wayward Sisters might not have taken off when it first aired but the point was made: a hunter network still existed. And these characters, this network, even though not shown in the finale, still survived no matter what happened with Sam and Dean in the end. Why is this important? Because not only does it extend the hunting universe, but it also removes the burden from the heroes' shoulders. So they could have gotten out of hunting if they wanted to, just like Buffy could have laid down her axe (or stake). The heroes had earned it.

So for Dean to die on a random hunt and for those few to say that it was being foreshadowed this whole time with Dean's quotes (from before season 15 btw) and a proper ending to his story...they really don't know what show they were watching or how storytelling works in general. Because when they say that, they negate Dean's whole arc of season 15 (while also negating his whole series arc). Dean was angry in the beginning of the season because he thought not only had his free will been taken from him, but also because he thought he hadn't had any free will this whole time. There's a reason why he says what he says to Cas in 15x02. There's a reason why he was so gung ho on letting Jack sacrifice himself, and only once once Sam and Chuck say what they say in 15x17 does Dean make a different choice: his family (and the world) vs his own desire (his idea of free will, not fully realizing that he's actually utilizing it by making that choice). It's only when he chooses not to kill Chuck in 15x19 that he is completely self-aware and that he is using his free will to make a choice. A choice that affects how the Big Bad is ended/defeated. "That's not who I am."

He was given the hero's choice and he made it. And his decision was the right one that had payoff from not only the events in 15x17 and 15x18 but for his overall story. That's why what Cas says to him in 15x18 about who he is as a character was so important. It set Dean up to not only have self-realization but to also act upon it. Think about how many times over the years Sam and other characters have told Dean this about himself but he never really believed it. Why? Because he hadn't reached that part of his journey yet. Because he hadn't reached the end of it yet. So it makes perfect sense how 15x17, 15x18, and 15x19 play out. This is the appropriate ending battle for not only Dean but Sam as well:

This was the hero's sacrifice they made. They could have been killed from Chuck beating on them as he did. He could have chosen to snap his fingers at any point. They made the sacrifice in order to get Jack the time and energy he needed to power up to overpower Chuck. And they never stayed down no matter the pain, no matter the potential of their deaths at Chuck's hand. They refused to give it up. This is why Sam helps Dean back up and why they're laughing/smiling. Because they know that no matter what happens to them, Jack/the world is going to win. "Why are you smiling?" "Because...you lose." And their sacrifice not only hands victory over to the new generation aka Jack but also instates the new God who replaces Chuck aka The Big Bad of the entire series. EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS SCREAMS HERO.

So it's not only payoff for Jack's story (as well as Chuck's) but also for Sam and Dean's. And both brothers were the heroes. Which is why Sam tells Chuck that he loses and Dean tells him that they won. Why both of them tell Chuck about their plan that they formed together (and Jack doesn't say a word). Which is why Chuck says he's going to die at both of their hands, both Sam and Dean look at each other, and then Dean makes the choice not to kill Chuck. "See, that's not who I am. That's not who we are." Because they both were the heroes and main protagonists of the series. Something that Kripe had set up long before 5x22.

"What kind of an ending is this?" One the heroes had earned. Chuck as the Big Bad wanted violence and death, an ending he would be entertained by. And even for an ending he hadn't imagined for himself (where he loses), he still expected a grisly death at the hands of the heroes. Had either Winchester done that, then Chuck would have gotten what he wanted and it wouldn't be the heroes' end that they had earned.

This was the ending that Sam and Dean earned:

The choice to continue on if they wanted or to get out of hunting for good. To go see Jody, Donna, and the girls, or go get Cas out of The Empty, or go on milk run hunts for a while, or even to go to a freaking baseball game (screw you, John!); the point is it was their choice. That's what they had earned by the end of the series.

The ending that Chuck earned was not only the worst he could imagine but it was punishment for everything he had done. Both brothers say as much:

Sam: "I think it's the ending where you're just like us. And like all the other humans you forgot about."

Dean: "It's the ending where you grow old, you get sick, and you just die."

Sam: "And no one cares. And no one remembers you. You're just forgotten."

This was not the heroes' ending or the ending both characters had earned/deserved:

This was:

For the ones who insist that Dean's sacrifice was the right ending for his story and that he got a new Heaven as a reward are incorrect. Heaven wasn't what Dean wanted, not before he got what he earned.

For the one who insist that Sam's ending was right for his story and that he got to have a family and choose to get out of hunting as a reward are incorrect. Sam wanted Dean to be a part of that life (however it looked) and he had no desire to get out of hunting by the time the series came to an end.

15x20 is not the right ending for either Winchester.

And for those who say that Dean hadn't become one of the heroes in the series or that the finale was right because Sam was the sole main protagonist by the end (or even Kripke's ending in 5x22) clearly weren't paying attention. Not only did Sam not get the heroes' end or the end he wanted and earned, but neither did Dean who had been developed into the other main protagonist of the series, by the series creator himself before he left the show.

Bonus:

15x20 was not their real finale and here's how you know:

Next shot (after cutting to black):

Nothing after it.

SPN:

Next shot (after fading to black):

And then:

(while still in costume, the two leads thanking the fans and then the crew/bridge drone shot complete with show music)

Compare this to how 15x19 ended as well. We get the montage, the drive off shot, and then the scene from 1x01 of Sam shutting the trunk of the Impala as Dean watches. Then cuts to black.

That's their finale.

[minkyumami]

maybe the finale takes place in the alternate universe from the french mistake and that's the real reason Misha's not in it

[july-19th-club]

almost certainly a mistake but ive decided this is the 'no skipping' watchthrough . not bugs, not the truck one, not the damn dog one. experiencing every single one of these godforsaken episodes with my own eyes

[armandism]

jacks goodbye speech wouldve hit so hard if the entire episode hadnt been dog shit

[liamgallaghermpreg]

.

[jensensitive]

it's really hard to pick a worst thing about the finale but definitely up there is how the idea that Dean's love of cas was just Chuck's influence would be an entirely valid reading of it

[passiveagressivepoet]

watched my favorite character die, took an hour break. now time to watch the last two episodes 🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡

[waterlilyvioletfog]

I don’t rank season finales by how good they are I rank them by how likely I am to rewatch them.

S3 Dean dies, Lilith is perfect

S13 Poorly directed but I enjoy myself. This was the first finale I watched live so I’m biased.

S2 Sad monologue sad hugs and Dean killing Yellow Eyes is perfect. RIP Jake I’m sorry you got put on White Serial Killers With Daddy Issues Show

S5 Lot of like. Weight? To this episode? I find it comfy.

S9 Dean dies, Metatron is perfect

S1 Terrible Time With Family!

S7 Dick’s shit gets wrecked it’s a fun time

S12 Mary punches Lucifer no notes chief

S11 Again, I’m just enjoying myself

S4 Mostly just me flapping my arms in alternating distress and excitement

S14 The first act or so is hilarious and I loved the whole thing my first time through it’s ranked low bc of retrospect

S10 Mostly dumb but I appreciate this for Death-Dean purposes

S8 I will be honest I skimmed through this ep the first time through and I’m sadly uninterested in watching it in full. I am aware that it’s great. I’m just not gonna rewatch it.

S6 I skip the ending of s6 after tmwwbk every time I rewatch bc I’m a coward.

S15 I don’t need to explain this.