#dunmesh rambles

[malaierba]

Kabru would have such an amusing time observing Toshiro

Because Toshiro is such a funny mix of stoic AND (somewhat) expressive. He manages to maintain a carefully schooled expression, but he's still you know. Kind of transparent? Kabru would definitely pick up on his tells anyway.

He'd just be saying shit and watching the gap between what Shuro says and the ways in which his body language leak his real feelings

[malaierba]

Regarding his use of Shuro, may be the later? I recently learned that many Japanese fans regard positively towards his continued use of Shuro. It's as you said, he had the opportunity to correct it at least with Laios but he left it be.

It could be a case of "well so much time has passed why bother" or it could be that's grown on him.

I've always found it interesting that his party nickname starts with let's call it the last suffix that makes up his name. That is, he is Toshi + Shiro, like his father is Toshi + Tsugu and his brothers are Toshi + Zane and Toshi + Yuki.

Seems symbolic. Laios (accidentally) takes the part of Toshiro's name that differentiates him from the men in his family (and he feels distant from all of them) and you could say "butchers it" or you could say "adapts it to the way he speaks", both are correct. More importantly it gives it a distinct identity through a Laios-ism (being bad with names, as Kabru suffers of too).

Maybe I'm looking too much into it but the fact that this happens with the autistic character that's not masking, towards with autistic character that IS masking, feels kind of meaningful? Especially if Toshiro does end up embracing the fact that the friends he made outside his family call him that, like he's not just another Toshi but rather with a nickname that seems to say "I carry some of my family with me but within this context I'm a separate person from them".

Shuro being known as "Shuro" when his name is "Toshiro" is a funny haha "white boy misheard his name and told everybody" joke, but it is also a character study of everything going wrong with Toshiro himself. Sure, Laios misheard his name and told everybody, but Laios is a kind person who cares about his impact on his friends. If Toshiro had EVER ONCE corrected him, Laios would have changed his behavior, and told everyone he'd fucked up, and laughed at himself for making the mistake. Shuro being so paralyzed by social etiquette that he can't even correct Laios about HIS OWN NAME (paralysis that comes from his culture, upbringing, and his own autism, as Laios himself has not given him any reason to feel this way) is foreshadowing and commentary on their entire dynamic and conflict.

The fact that, even after resolving the rest of their issues, Shuro STILL doesn't correct him or anyone else on the island, holds implications that perhaps he's grown to appreciate having this other identity that's separate from his upbringing. Yet another trans allegory of slow transitioning of identity being linked to a different name (used first by your friends).

Or maybe he just still hasn't gotten up the courage to broach that particular embarrassing topic.

[jadequarze]

The victims of Marcille's 'healing' are something special

Marcille everyone, truly

[ehhgg-art]

you ever think about the fact that laios won not by being a monster but by being human.

monsters as we’ve seen throughout the manga are predictable, they have this rhythm to them that, once someone understands, can be used to take them out. take kelpies like anne where laios states that she is just a monster and cannot be trusted. even kensuke is “just a monster after all”, running away from danger when laios needs it most. kensuke is beloved by laios not just because he is a monster, but because laios, in human fashion, anthropomorphized him in his mind (giving him a name, etc.)

but people are different. they are multifaceted, non-monolithic creatures. long lived races are not all pious and apathetic towards short lived races as we see with marcille and senshi. chilchuck actively works against the prejudice against half-foots. tallmen from every region have their cultural differences as we see with shuro and laios/falin. even “demi-humans” like orcs have depth to them, having rich culture and values despite the general idea that they are a violent pillaging race.

even laios’ family and village, the nexus point for his dislike of people, have depth to them. though their parents did not actively protect their children, they did not wish harm on them either. the exorcisms performed on falin by their mother was harmful in laios’ eyes, but helpful in his mother’s perspective.

laios himself, despite loving monsters and hating humans, is so very painfully human. he hates humans but has risked life and literal limb to save his sister and his party. he loves monsters but is aware of their dangerous nature and spares them no mercy.

(big spoilers under the cut)

the winged lion mistook laios as a one dimensional entity, one which only operates on a one track mind without paradox. it thought laios to operate like a monster, and so it approached his desires like one. it believed that laios, being so obsessed with monsters, must behave like one as well, so completely disregarded the fact that laios could have something up his sleeve.

but laios is not a monster, he is human. he has ulterior motives, overlapping beliefs, contradicting values. it is his humanness that made him explain to his party what to do when things went awry. it is his humanness that allowed him to lie. lie to the world about his true plan as well as lie to the winged lion about his intentions.

sure laios WANTS to be a monster, that much is definitely true. but what he IS is a different story. laios is an unpredictable, sporadic, messy human being. it is that fact which the winged lion overlooked, and ultimately led to its downfall and laios’ victory.

[malaierba]

i always thought that the pose Toshiro strikes falling down the hole was funny in a, idk, retro anime way, guys posing in ways you only see in anime etc

Looking at it closer today I noticed that he's actually raising his hands here, probably to avoid touching Rin in a way that may parse as rude

stupid observation but i find it sweet since its consistent with something stablished about his character (Ryoko Kui pays a lot of attention to body language and mannerisms, makes it fun to pay attention to them) and also just. justifies a stupid little pose. lol.

Unrelated but I really like this scene where he's just resigned himself to being a wall between Flamela arguing directly with Rin lol.

I wonder if he did it because he felt it was The Right Thing To Do, or if it's more of a thing he's USED to doing? Maybe when there's a disagreement between his teammates in the Nakamoto household he's the designated person who tries to put some distance between everyone? Maybe he took up this role himself, in true "I hate conflict so much please stop fighting" fashion?

Or maybe he sensed that Rin feels more uneasy around Flamela than the other way around (Rin looked quite panicked when she bumped into her, shout out to that one meta post that points out how in her backstory it seems that its Flamela who takes her away), so he's instinctively taking her side.

[malaierba]

shipping aside,

this is 100% me tripping btw lol. Hoping that Ryoko Kui feels what I feel towards how the Eng-speaking fandom (which is unlikely she knows about) treats Toshiro.

Those panels are SO GOOD for putting into perspective how Laios' approach to Toshiro, his (and im putting it nicely) white fanboyism over Toshiro being from Wa + his failure to read his (polite, indirect) attempts at setting boundaries" would read if toshiro were a girl.

Both by characters in the universe (goes from 'oh he's just hassling him' to 'oh he's actually making her feel super uncomfortable...') and the readers. And I'll admit, the last one is just me being, "i wonder if the fans would be nicer to Toshiro if she were a soft butch with an unrequited crush", there's no way to know if they REALLY would be nicer or if he'd receive the same treatment.

(Although, man, for Falin to get two girls doing ALL THAT to bring her back? I can't blame anyone if they lost their minds over it. I would too.)

I wonder if Kui saw that Toshiro was receiving a similar type of treatment from the Japanese fandom, enough that she'd say "hm but would you say this if I changed this one thing that made you regard Shuro differently"?

The Japanese and Korean sides of the fandom seem to be very chill about Toshiro in general imo, but it's probably just an impression I have from how I've curated my Twitter TL lol.

on the subject of "the fandom being weirdly obsessed with interpreting everything about Shuro in the worst way possible" i have to bring up the "what if we all got our genders changed" comic because today i learned that there's a significant amount of people who saw this panel

^this panel, which depicts

a woman in tears as she talks about a guy (making a creepy face)

to two other woman making expressions of shock and concern while talking about that same guy (making a creepy face)

while that same guy (not making a creepy face) watches the scene and observes "yikes, that looks bad"

and came away from it with the intepretation "wow, Shuro is such a hypocrite, because his female version is clearly in love with Laios here"

[not-a-hawk]

I’m watching dunmeshi with my mom and I swap between calling it dungeon meshi and calling delicious in dungeon which means she rarely remembers the title and tends to just call it “[my] show” except for the time she called it “dungeon- uh- dungeons and diners and dives or whatever it’s called”

[szalnyshko]

(•Д•), Dunmeshi is over taking me!! [spoilers ahead!]

So, I’ve already finished the manga and I’m now waiting for the new episode but during the gap I’ve been consuming fandom content, as per use. Now, the character that I’ve been consuming the most fandom content is Laios cause he’s so jdjdjsjs, and this idea has been fluttering round my head because I’ve only seen THREE actual posts/works about this. Two being fics and one being a tumblr post.

The specific idea is a sibling swap, Falin and Laios, and I’m suffering from lack of content from it!! Only two fics and one tumblr post [ТдТ] One of the fics is Laios and making his desire to be to swap with Falin, and what he thinks will happen. The other is Falin going through the dungeon to save Laios and it’s specific the episode that’s coming out this Thursday, so chapter 27/28 in manga I think.

Like this concept really gets me going cause it changed the whole dynamic of how things would play out. Laios being there meant they met Senshi because Laios was interested in eating monsters. Falin, although she does have an interest, would not have that strong of an interest in eating monsters. I also feel she may not realise it’s hunger that caused them to fail because she was focused on protecting her brother and the party, literally letting herself get eaten to save her brother. She also would not have intimate knowledge of monsters so the party may have a harder time killing monsters.

I think Marcille and Chilchuck would still be in the party. Marcille doesn’t seem to have a deep connection with Laios at the start, with her clashing with Laios and his monster eating habits. Plus the prior encounter where she wanted to kill him for taking Falin away from magic school. This bond deepens between them as they go down the dungeon and she obviously cares for the rest of the party, feeling betrayed that Namari and Shuro [I keep forget your actual name] left. But I feel if it were Lauos to get eaten she wouldn’t be as motivated as she is with Falin [Lesbian icon!] because she doesn’t get to connect with him. This then brings into question, would she revive Laios and risk being jailed by the elves?

She probably would because it’s Falin who asked but there would be more hesitation. Especially with Chilchuck who is against it no matter what.

Talking about Chilchuck, I feel he would stay out of obligation. The same reason he stayed with Laios originally. I think his dynamic wouldn’t change that much but maybe he’d see Falin and Marcill closer to his daughters [?] or maybe he’d have a gripe cause of their relationship as we already know he doesn’t do inter party relationships.

Namari would still leave but I think Shuro would be more hesitant, his love for Falin possibly making him stay for a little bit.

Of course we have the problem with money and food but I think Falin has enough people skills to gather some things. But, because she lived with Laios for some time and heard about his monster fantasies, maybe she’d consider eating monsters. I feel people would be more likely to listen to her rather than Laios [sorry buddy] but still question it. However, Shuro did have a whole crew so maybe he’d help with that and we’d have a whole different crew dynamic.

Talking about that, I wonder how Kabru and his party would interact with Falin’s party. How’d the Namari reunion go? What would Falin’s desire be? How would the finale fight be? Would Laios have a cool chimera bod like Falin?

So many questions for my tiny brain….

[sporadicroadwolfflower]

Hey. Everyone realizes that all the bell reactions are cut from the anime right? Like Laios fucking around and annoying Toshiro and stuff.

I think staff is planning to revisit those scenes when the entire team reunites later you know. Cuz think about it, it would be funny as shit.

Laios- "hey guys😃! Sorry for not contacting you for so long. We must've worried you right🥺?!"

Toshiro and Kabru, having flashbacks- ".....not really."

[malaierba]

only thing i disagree with is that he doesn't have the ability to be racist due to not feeling a sense of superiority

Not all racism is done as a conscious decision, not all racism is active racial supremacy. When someone lives within a racist culture/system (the Elven culture for example) they can uphold racist assumptions. They benefit from racism without needing to be active about it.

That's the implication if the slur joke, actually. It's not only that Mithrun has been isolated enough that he's not aware of that conversations around political correctness have started taking place, it's also that by all intents and purposes his wording choice makes him more obviously a a passive upholder of supremacist ideals even though pretty much all of the canaries are only slightly better than he is.

None of those guys are talking about actual equality. Otta regards short-lived races with a smidge more respect, but other than that those guys got caught in language and avoiding being regarded as supremacists, while remaining uncritical of the systems they help uphold (they're literally an armed force carrying out the political interests of a state, and their actions are paternalistic).

I know I'm supporting your argument here. That's because I agree with the reading your providing. For clarity let me repeat that what I'm trying to say here is that, while obviously we need to acknowledge that Mithrun is capable of engaging a tall man like Kabru as an equal, he's otherwise comfortable enough being part of a racist system, so much so he can just opt out of conversations about respectful language and it virtually has no impact on his quality of life. That's privilege, and is systematic.

He was raised within a racist system and adopted many of its racist beliefs. Him not being anti-racist means that he's neutral, so said beliefs will go unchallenged, which means that when you take in the bigger picture? He IS a little racist.

Saw someone describe Mithrun as a "Disabled right wing veteran who is convinced hes just as capable as he was in his prime" and also that he would "complain about immigrants" and I'm very confused.

Where did this type of interpretation for Mithrun came from? There's nothing about him that indicates he's "right wing" or any more racist than the average elf and due to his condition he literally isn't able to care about that.

The sentiment of "Mithrun is a racist grandpa" seems to have gone from an absurdist joke based on him saying a "slur" into a real interpretation of the character??

First of all he's 37 in tallman years he is not a grandpa, I know it was a joke based on him being rough and the fact he's an elf (185 years old) but I'm starting to think some people really think he's grandpa age? He isn't, he's about as old as Senshi and Chilchuck, Senshi is actually older than him being 47 in tallman years if he's a grandpa they are too, it's going from funny way to call him into ableist territory pretty fast.

Second he doesn't have the ability to be racist anymore, racism implies a sense of superiority compared to someone else from another race, which all the elves have. Let's go thru his anime appearance and what happens.

Kabru shows up and tries to speak to the elves and convince them to try his way. The elves think the short lived people are all ignorant and treat them condescendingly, even Tansu because they live more than any other race

Then they go from "Short lived people are too stupid to know anything" into "Oh my god this poor baby come on have some cake :)" which is ALSO condescending, nobody is taking Kabru or the governor seriously because they're short lived. These elves are RACIST they're treating Kabru like he's a confused kid "come eat some cake and let the adults talk"

Mithrun is the only authority figure that wants to listen to Kabru

He is a shell of who he used to be, right now he ONLY cares about defeating the demon, if there is a chance this kid (who has had experience with dungeons before) knows another way to get him what he wants he will listen to it, cause he *doesn't* have the capability of being like the other elves.

This doesn't mean he's anti-racist, it means he literally doesn't care, he lets the other elves mistreat Kabru in every other scene unless it has something to do with defeating the dungeon, cause he *doesn't* care. He's not gonna complain about immigrants cause he doesn't care he's not gonna treat short lived people like kids cause he doesn't care, he cannot care, he lost the ability to care.

Past Mithrun was the one that was both racist classicist and a bitch, but that part of him is basically dead.

He said the slur because they asked him not because he thinks is appropriate, the other elves aren't casual racists and him the *real* racist they are all just as bad he just doesn't have the "desire to be socially acceptable" I guess, they asked, he answered and that was it.

If it would make it easier try to think about it in terms of real life bigotry and how people keep going "you can't even say (...) because of the woke" they aren't any less racist they just worry about being socially acceptable racists.

Anyway, please don't just repeat what other people say as jokes as if they're true especially when you're saying it about a disabled character. Acting like he's worse than his peers because he doesn't have the capability of being socially aware is ableism, calling him a grandpa because he has had a rough life that made him look disheveled is ableism, saying he's past his prime is also ableist considering he learned how to fight *after* he became disabled.

Correct me if anything I said was wrong but I really got peeved after reading several people misinterpreting Mithrun as some sort of bigoted old man who must be taken to an asylum as if he just causes trouble for people who care for him.

[jadequarze]

I'm laughing so much at dubbed Izutsumi screaming It's SO GOOD

Welcome to 'healer Marcille' club Izutsumi, you're officially in the group

[janet-the-interplanet]

[half-blood-goods]

Getting back into Dungeon Meshi at the same time as I was getting into Stardew Valley has been quite the experience, resulting in the most random crossover ideas.

Like why do I wanna see Abigail (who eats rocks) and Laios (who eats pretty much anything slightly monstrous) just chatting. You can't tell me Linus and Senshi wouldn't vibe, that's just facts. Chilchuck and Shane? Come on.

I wanna see the gang in the Mines, the Skull Cavern or the Volcano. Laios would have a field day with all the monsters. Hell, they'd probably make for a good meal too, I mean the volcano basically has the walking mushrooms already.

Just whatever happens, keep Krobus away from them.

[malaierba]

Hello! Yep look, softer after he's back on the surface

why is shuro getting softer features every time i draw him

[yume-fanfare]

all the manga ending lately have had ass finales please jshk don't betray me 🧘

[possamble]

⭐️!!

OKAY SO a lot of people really love the last section in a little creature chapter 4:

She’s spent her entire life making herself smaller, quieter, less consequential, just to ensure no one else would hurt because of her. But she won’t do it to anyone else. She won’t do it to her little dragon, this small creature forced to be at her mercy through no fault of its own. It has done nothing but lend her strength, make her honest and brave where she has been a coward all her life — it’s only fair that she shares her voice, shares her life with it.  But Marcille, it cries. Marcille. If I'm quiet, you could have Marcille.  She could. But she won't. Because, if this is all it takes to render her unlovable — some feathers, fangs, and a resolution to be more outspoken — then so be it. If it’s a choice between letting her dragon have its fair share of their life or getting to be with Marcille, then so be it. Let there be no going back, may the dragon tear her apart if she should ever succumb to the temptation of familiarity — life changes, and she will change with it.  We’re in this together now, she tells the dragon, curling around herself. And I’ll always choose you, I promise. 

And I'm super happy bc it was honestly the emotional centrepiece of the entire chapter/the thing I was building up towards!!

While I did fully intend it to be a moment of triumph for Falin's character, I mentioned her inability to care for herself in the absence of an externalized inner child-like entity because I wanted the explore the idea of... I guess, things that are good for you in one moment not always being a sustainable coping method in the long run?

Which isn't to say that you shouldn't engage in these methods to begin with! For Falin, being able to semi-externalize another creature to take care of is a good thing at that moment, because it gives her the bravery to choose her own wellbeing. She needs that, because she's not ready to choose herself in earnest just yet--but no one is able to go from self-erasure to self-confidence without any awkward inbetweens.

But I did want to set up the foundation for exploring that, if she isn't able to further evolve from this mindset, she won't be able to grow. The little dragon inside her is, unfortunately, a bit of a schroedinger's inner child situation--it's real and it isn't. Yes, there may be impulses that feel fully foreign that Falin can identify as coming from the dragon--but for the most part, it's just a part of her the way that any other aspect of her personality is. It being a separate entity inside her is entirely dependent on how she wants to think about it.

Ultimately, she needs to be able to choose herself for the sake of choosing herself and nothing else, or this newfound confidence will crumble. She needs to be able to take care of herself even if it doesn't benefit anyone other than herself--she can't keep using a helpless creature as a crutch forever.

I can't say too much more because it's all stuff that I'm planning in future chapters, but the dragon will be popping in and out somewhat inconsistently to reflect Falin's flimsy conceptualization of it as her companion.

On a slightly unrelated note, I was a little self-conscious about this section because it's far from the first time I've done something along those lines--it's essentially a rehash of a character moment I had in a Code Vein fic from a few years ago:

(the premise being that superhuman vampires are created by implanting special parasites into corpses, and the main character is a neurotic little girltwink who never gives herself enough credit for anything)

And for the first time since she was revived, Mia feels… kind of bad for her parasite. It’s so easy to think that all the consequences of being a revenant are simply a part of her as a singular identity— she needs blood to survive, she has superhuman strength and durability, and so on and so forth. But in reality, it’s… it’s all thanks to the living thing wrapped around her heart right now. Inside her chest is another creature that’s just doing its best to stay alive; in a way, they’re in this together, her and her little heart bug.  Poor thing. She’s put it through a lot. 

[...]

She scoffs quietly at the theatricality of it all. It’s a new day, and she’s greeting it all by herself in her room but she doesn’t feel quite so alone anymore— she never has been, in the end, even when all else failed.  Good morning, she thinks to the creature keeping her heart together. I’ll take better care of you today, I promise. 

(Please excuse the clumsy writing it was years ago and also I do hope to go back and finish this one someday I swear)

But then I thought about it and realized that... this pseudo-externalized inner child thing is something I've done in nearly every major chaptered fic I've written. In my Tales of Berseria postcanon, I have this entire theme about the main character's insecurity about still grieving her incredibly abusive adoptive father, then have it culminate in a segment where she's flirting with her love interest by facetiously gossiping about her own alter ego:

“Might I suggest you not take it too seriously?” Magilou sighs, letting her shoulders fall slack. “It’s a light enough subject without the weight of the context— and this sweetheart of yours does like to spin her stories, no?” she laughs, shaking her head. "Once upon a time, there was a little girl who was taken in by a great wizard who raised her as his own. To this day, she still loves him very much,” she admits, and it’s only her own facetious tone that keeps her from stumbling. “And there has never been a reason why this would ever indicate a lack of self-respect." In some unspoken way, Aneirin is a lie that she tells for herself: to indulge the fond memories without having to explain herself to anyone. To let those sad parts of her exist, that little girl who loved her father so very much— Because, in the end, how could she not? He was a shitty parent and worse caretaker besides; but in a world full of people who called her an abomination— fellow exorcist or no— he was her only bastion.  And maybe that child who still loves her father doesn't deserve to be reviled for the very fact. 

(okay tbh i AM super proud of having finished this massive postcanon thing so if you like the ToB girls at all, pls give the series a look)

So that's 2 for 2 on self-sacrificing blonde girltwinks learning to take care of themselves more by embracing an alternate self--it's kind of funny that I'm doing it again, but with the girltwink's love interest instead. Not to mention that it's not supposed to be a one-and-done character breakthrough that remains positive, so we'll see how this one goes!!