#ds9 In the Hands of the Prophets

[filmjunky-99]

s t a r t r e k d e e p s p a c e n i n e created by rick berman, michael piller [in the hands of the prophets, s1ep20] 'Bajor'

[walkingstackofbooks]

DS9 1x20 In the hands of the prophets thoughts (rewatching; spoilers for future episodes abound probably)

The opening MilesxKeiko scene is sweet. I don't like irrational jealousy, but it was more teasing of Miles' obliviousness and was just funny and cute

Man I've missed Keiko. l thought she was around more in early season when I was missing her in later seasons, but I guess that was just rose-tinted memories

Oh. Winn's appeared. Ugh.

Keiko using her teacher voice to answer Winn's interruptions - "Yes, on Bajor the entities are worshipped as prophets." *continues lesson* 👌👌👌 Winn's point is not completely unreasonable, but the manner she brings it up is.

I love you Kira, but you don't *really* believe in Bajoran separatism, do you??

Oh my god I hate Winn's fake piety so much, you can tell she resents Sisko with every word she says. Don't you speak about Kai Opaka, she wouldn't stand for you

Yeah ever since Neela started showing up in the past few episodes consistently I knew something was gonna go down with her because frequent side characters are not normal

(side note: what happened to the Federation security bloke? I felt for sure he was dodgy but he never was he just disappeared)

"I've tried to be reasonable" FUCK YOU NO YOU HAVEN'T YOU'VE JUST PRETENDED AND GIVEN NO REAL OPTIONS. STAGING A "DISCUSSION" WITH AN AUDIENCE IS NOT THE SAME AS ACTUALLY HAVING A DISCUSSION YOU ASS

I hate her so much

I cannot

I lowkey love how petty Keiko is in teaching Galileo. Like, honey, no, that's not the way to keep the moral high ground here, and Jake's conclusions from the lessons are very wrong - but it is a Queen Move.

Sisko is best dad and I love the understanding he shows Bajorans when explaining to Jake they're not wrong.

BAREIL. Oh man. Now I'm re-watching I'm just going to be sad about how the Kai elections turn out instead of wildly optimistic whenever I see him, aren't I?

Nah I'm still gonna hope he wins

And I'm still gonna hope Kira elopes with Dax rather than ending up with him -he's fine as a spiritual leader but nah as a love interest

Odo and Quark just doing their thing :3 both "just doing their jobs" my ass

YES SISKO go off on her

FUCK I knew she'd influenced Neela but I'd forgotten about this scene SHE EXPLICITLY SENT A YOUNG BAJORAN GIRL LOOKIGN TO HER FOR SPIRITUAL GUIDANCE TO HER DEATH FOR A CHANCE AT POWER I HATE HER SO MUCH maybe I don't wanna watch the rest of this again I'd forgotten how awful Winn is

Lol the build-up to assassination is so tense and then there's the slow-mo with Sisko shouting "noooo" and I just can't XD

Oh, Kira. Once again, you deserve to have a break.

Welp, I'd forgotten how much I hate Winn and I'm already missing Season 1 and it's lack of her presence up until now.

Guess I'm just gonna have to make peace with the "I know how it turns out but I'm still hoping what was recorded on TV can magically change to become better" feeling.

Like, I don't mind the characters being massively traumatised by every other event. But Winn, being allowed to exist, let alone eventually become Kai? Nah. Nope. Can we not.

[skybson]

1x19 - In the Hands of the Prophets

[geekysteven]

In the Hands of the Prophets is a perfect DS9 episode. You got a clash between alien cultures, Keiko makes a dick joke, terrorism, Keiko makes a dick joke, the introduction of the religious antagonist, Keiko makes a dick joke

[dragontamerno3]

DS9 S1 E20 - In The Hands Of The Prophets

Soooooooooooo.... I finished S1. And I officially hate Space Karen.

I want to get this out of the way so I hopefully never have to say it again because praising this character hurts me deep in my religiously traumatized soul (lol), but she is *really* good. I mean, of course she was going to be well played given the actress who plays her (RIP Louise Fletcher), but she's so fucking good at how evil she actually is. We're meant to hate her, I get that. But the writing and acting is phenomenal when it comes to this level of religious bigotry and scheming.

I have seen actual people IRL that were just a couple steps down the ladder from being pure fanatics to this dangerous level and the shit they've said in some cases were almost word for word how she spun in.

We started out the episode though with a fun note on Keiko joking with Miles and clearly hinting at something that is probably just supposed to be her playing at being jealous but definitely reads as swinger language to me. Which, from what I've gathered DS9 is one big polyam fam so I may be picking up on those vibes.

Which, I'm kinda sad Neela was the traitor here. I called it when the tool was discovered missing though "it" hadn't been revealed to be secret traitor levels yet and I just assumed she used the tool for some reason. I still knew it was her and when the episode went on and murder turned into potential terrorism I was just... bummed. She seemed to truly be getting alone with Miles and the scene in the shuttle def added to my polyam/swinger thoughts, but she really seemed to actually care for him. This didn't take away from my... enjoyment, can one really call it that when one is also seething? Anyway, it didn't take anything away from the episode from me, if fact it kinda made it feel a bit more realistic cause I have absolutely lost people I cared about because of religion. It just sucked.

Then Winn shows up at the school to talk religious nonsense and the "real" trouble starts. Oh I hate that woman.

And then Kira backing Winn? I know she's also got her own spiritual beliefs and journey but that felt... a bit much? Not aligned with who she had been up to this point? Not the teaching the kids part but the "lets separate everyone" idea. It definitely threw me out of the scene for a bit. I accept it, though, based on the very end of the episode where she explained that she hoped her beliefs were as strong as Winn's, but this was the one bit of writing that I disagreed with. If something has to wait to the end to be explained like this, it could use some fixing.

Quark and Odo meeting in secret to talk about a case seems to me like the writers were trying make up an excuse to get them alone together....

Watching Winn turn all the parents and kids against Keiko was frustrating. The Bajorian food seller not selling to them because of this wasn't so much upsetting as it just made me roll my eyes, but I adore Miles for wanting to jump the counter for his wifes honor lol

When the school blew and Miles ran towards it? And then Odo had to hold him back so he didn't jump into the fire? My heart. It was such a good scene.

I think my favorite part of this episode was Siskos speech. The "You've just made your first mistake" speech. I'm being a bit egotistical for this bit, though. I love it cause these are the same exact speeches I like to make in my ttrpgs. The "You think you've won but really you've severally underestimated us and we're going to ruin you now" speeches are my fucking favorite and I live for them. Sisko wins the gold star for this one.

8.75/10 cause I couldn't decide if I wanted to rate this one a 9 or an 8.5 so split the difference lmao

[thunderandsage]

pov: nothing makes you more anxious than kai winn “in the hands of prophets” because you went to catholic school and whoo boy does some of that hit too close to memory

[per1w1nkl3]

last two episode of s1 of ds9 are just banger after banger. what the fuck.

[stopthatbluecat]

Chapters: 1/1 Fandom: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Rating: General Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Relationships: Kira Nerys & Keiko O'Brien Additional Tags: Bajoran Culture (Star Trek), Episode: s01e20 In the Hands of the Prophets Summary:

Following the events of In the Hands of the Prophets, Keiko comes across Kira on the promenade late one night.

[trekkie-polls]

A reminder if it’s been a while since you saw Sacrifice of Angels:

The Dominion & Cardassians are occupying ds9. A battle involving the Klingons, Cardassians, Federation, and Dominion rages near the station. Rom had mined the entrance to the wormhole to prevent further Dominion Gamma quadrant reinforcements, but Damar has just removed the mines. The defiant punches through the battle only to watch the minefield detonate.

They detect a huge fleet of Dominion reinforcements coming through the wormhole. Sisko orders the Defiant into the wormhole to face them. The Prophets tell him to turn back and save his life, but he counters & convinces them to stop the fleet. They agree in exchange for a penance, and the approaching ships vanished on screen. Sisko says he doesn’t think they’ll be coming back.

[horsechestnut]

“In the Hands of the Prophets” sure is an interesting episode to watch in the year of our lord 2023...

[filmjunky-99]

h a p p y b i r t h d a y

Philip Anglim

11 February 1952

🎈🎈🎈

[pic. anglim as vedek bareil, in the hands of the prophets, ds9]

[data2364]

via Trekcore.com

Philip Anglim (Vedek Bareil Antos) 1993 in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine "In the Hands of the Prophets“

https://data2364.wordpress.com/2020/12/29/daily-star-trek-29-dezember-2020/

[leohtttbriar]

i definitely agree that ds9 could have used more moments between kira and dax in which they not only disagree but express that disagreement to each other. but i also feel like their friction is even more interesting for the fact that they are always on each other's sides despite the ample evidence that they shouldn't be.

like, dax being who she is, kira being who she is---and still most of their interactions are in active support of one another. they're a flipped version of spock and bones: meant to express two very different perspectives to the captain--never bickering about it. the "truce," so to speak, that they have must be so particular and fragile and yet the audience is never really given the impression that it's ever under threat of breaking.

(i also suspect the writers were trying to avoid, at least on some level, the tired trope of "women not getting along"--jadzia and kira being the main female characters sort of bars that from happening. but that's a separate thing)

and the fact that the most friction we see between them is some version of them advocating for the other where she's not advocating for her own self--kira concerned when jadzia wants to honor curzon's oath, jadzia wanting to expel the prophets to save kira's life--is really really compelling to me. they're also shown both criticizing the other's culture--like kira saying the trill ban against reassociation isn't right--while also actively supporting each other through it--like jadzia disguising herself as a bajoran religious figure to help the bajoran government. i absolutely would have loved to see them talk about the differences between them more (i mean a wrote a fic about the religious tension--i do in fact find it worth thinking about), but also one of the reasons i think they're so interesting is the fact that they don't talk about it often and still are who they are and still they behave the way they do.

like in "children of time" when jadzia is blaming herself the whole episode for kira's death, blames herself again for kira staying alive and the colonists' non-existence (blames but sure does smile about it), and in between that there's the scene where jadzia is resigned to a fate she absolutely doesn't want, a fate that is kira's preference/kira's death, and they clasp hands and just look at each other without saying anything before moving forward. which was affecting.

bareil even commented on it once, how they shouldn't be friends, and kira just laughed it off---like there's so much there. not any of it undercut by dax's """"underdevelopment.""" she may not have had as much screentime and narrative focus as she should, but she wasn't just there to technobabble. she's a character that feels as much like a person as the others and a lot of that personhood is expressed with her unyielding loyalty to kira.

[writergeekrhw]

DS9 has always been my favourite Trek - I remember being a 15 year old and sneaking downstairs to turn on the TV and wait desperately for 'Rejoined' to air, because I heard that it would have Jadzia kissing a woman and I had never, ever seen women loving women on tv before. At least, not anything that was taken seriously and not as some awful punchline. It meant a lot to baby-dyke me, back then. More than I can ever express.

Now I've got kids (12 and 16) and based on how much they loved Strange New Worlds, I'm trying to get them equally hooked on DS9. We started with the pilot ('baseball metaphors are so boring,' declared 12 yr old), then Past Tense for the year relevance, which went over better. Trials and Tribble-ations was a big hit.

Last night I put on the season 4 premiere, and that went well. Kid 16 is still only vaguely interested, and mostly likes Kira's snark. Kid 12 has decided that Worf and Garak are his favourite characters, with 'the sarcastic melty guy' running a close third. He also declared that DS9 'is like the Star Wars prequels, but better. Like, it's got talky politics in it, but the writing is actually good.'

Given all that, do you have any suggestions for good on-boarding episodes for newer viewers? We'll definitely do as much of the Dominion War arc as I can get them to sit through, but I'd love to prime them with a couple of good stand-alone episodes first to get more familiar with the characters. It's been a long time since I've watched the series straight through, though, and a lot of details about specific episodes have blurred in my mind. I'd love any suggestions!

Hmm, I'd try "Duet," "In the Hands of the Prophets," "Necessary Evil," "Rules of Acquisition," and "Blood Oath," then hit the with "The Jem'hadar." If that doesn't do it, DS9 might not be for them (at least not yet).

[ravenclawerised]

Rewatching DS9 again and I am just so interested at how an average Bajoran would view Kira by the end of the series. How an average Cardassian would? We know that a lot of what she does is known to the Bajoran people. Shakaar mentions Furel and Lupaza bragging about her whenever they get news of the station. But lets actually take a look at this:

She is the highest ranking Bajoran on DS9 outranked only by the Emissary

Most times Sisko did anything in the capacity as the Emissary, Kira was one step behind and to the right

She was with Kai Opaka, the most widely loved and respected Bajoran, when she made her journey through the Celestial Temple and “answered the call of the prophets”

She was highly respected (and loved) by Vedek Bareil who was hugely popular on Bajor (he could very well have been Kai if he hadn’t taken the blame for Kai Opaka’s actions during the Occupation)

She and Kai Winn had a well known feud and after Kai Winn’s fall from grace at the end of the show, Kira must come out pretty great to everyone else

She is the one who found and saved the great Bajoran hero, Li Nalas, from a Cardassian work camp and then within a week saved Bajor from a civil war that had been encouraged by Cardassians.

Between her saving Li Nalas and his fellow prisoners AND finding the Ravinok and saving the Bajorans (and Cardassians and Ziyal) from the Breen mines, was she the person Bajorans turned to when searching for their lost love ones? Was she a symbol to those who kept looking for their loved ones because Kira Nerys found those thought to be lost?

She prevented ANOTHER Bajoran Civil War and helped elect Shakaar as the First Minister of Bajor. Again being associated with a widely loved and respected member of Bajoran society.

Kira was in charge of DS9 during Dominion Occupation and started up the station’s resistance cell

She was permitted to use the Orb of Time, one of Bajor’s most sacred objects

She was the chosen by a Prophet to be their vessel during the Reckoning with the Pah-Wraith...and the KAI was on the same station. But it was KIRA who was chosen

She plays chicken with a Romulan fleet...and wins!

She was a key figure in the Dominion War. She started as a resistance fighter who was assigned to a falling apart, unimportant old Cardassain station and becomes the Colonel of the single most important port in the Alpha Quadrant. She is the right hand of the Emissary. She is widely respected by many beloved figures in Bajoran society.

And this list is just the most public things that have happened to her. This doesn’t even take into account any of the stories about her that involve her dealing with whatever BS the Star Trek universe decides to throw at the characters that week. Klingons beam in and fight? Gets stabbed and keeps fighting. Emissary is transported to 2024? Kira is on the team that pulls him out.

By the end of season seven, do politicians on Bajor hold their breath or breathe a sigh of relief if Kira gets involved? Do Vedeks seek her out to ask her about being possessed by a prophet? About her experiences with the Orbs? About Kai Opaka’s last words? Do families still grieving those missing from the Occupation petition her to look for the lost?

And how about the Cardassians?

The Cardassian government would probably never publicly admit to any time she foiled their plans, but Tekeny Ghemor tells her that she has her own section in the Cardassian Central Archives and is a public figure on Cardassia

Would the Cardassians in the Breen mine whisper their thanks among their family that Kira Nerys found them?

Tekeny Ghemor, someone who was respected enough to be considered as the face for the Cardassian resistance against the Dominion controlled Cardassian puppet government, publicly considered her his daughter/family by asking her to participate in the Shri-tal ritual and give her all of his secrets prior to his death (something highly valued in Cardassian society)

She was a part of Damar’s resistance. She helped them fight the Dominion and was with Damar when he died for Cardassia. In the story of how Damar was martyred for Cardassia’s freedom from the Dominion, Kira Nerys, a Bajoran, is heavily featured.

In all Bajoran/Cardassian relations, do Cardassians seek to involve Kira as a woman of her word who will treat in good faith or do they cross their fingers and hope she is nowhere near their business?

Can you tell I think about Kira Nerys a lot?

[philcoulsonismyhero]

I Should be sleeping, but unfortunately I finished relistening to Moon Over Soho again earlier after I finished Amongst Our Weapons again the other day and decided to just loop back around, and I continue to be Deeply not normal about Thomas Nightingale.

2396 names of wizards who died in WWII and he personally carved every single one of them into the remembrance wall at Casterbrook. 3 out of 5 of every military aged wizard in Britain died and the rest of them gave up the craft due to injury and/or trauma, but he persisted, alone. He started aging backwards in his 70s but stopped at the approximate age he was during the war. He still remembers how and where all of his friends died. "Some days, it seems so long ago, and some days..."

I keep thinking of the DS9 pilot and the Prophets bringing Sisko back to his wife's death over and over again because "you exist here". Nightingale still exists in the war. And then Peter comes along and drags him into the 21st century and refuses to let him stay wallowing in his grief and spots Exactly all the ways in which he's broken and needs someone to keep the cracks from widening. Peter’s mum says what would one more killing be to a man with blood on his hands, and Peter thinks of the strain he's seen in Nightingale and decides no, no more, there's Always Another Way. For moral and ethical reasons, but also because Nightingale has been damaged enough. And it started when he put his foot down over the jazz vampires and threw 'what did all your friends die for?' in Nightingale's face.

I am. So very Not Normal about them in general and about that conversation in particular