#dream smp character analysis

[sunnydazeee]

Jack manifold tries so hard to get someone to notice him, whether that be in a negative light or a positive one, he doesn't care. during Tommy's exile, he steals "hotter girl" (a fake girlfriend that Tommy built out of a jack o lantern and logs) from him, and rubs it in his face, desperately wanting a reaction from him.

he gets no reaction, Tommy simply does not care. Tommy is apathetic towards Jack before saying he can pretend to care, that he can lie and say that he does care. Jack says this will only make him sad.

Tommy and Jack are so tragically similar in the way that they just want to be recognized. they want to be seen, and they don't care if it's in a bad way.

they both try to get revenge on people for wronging them, but when Jack does it, no one seems to care.

if Jack manifold were the one to burn George's house down, he would not have gotten exiled. dream didn't exile Tommy because he cares about George - dream exiled Tommy because it was Tommy.

jack repeatedly tries to get revenge on people by putting clay in their houses and saying it's from dream, but no one ever cares about it. it's just a minor inconvenience for them.

Tommy is the scapegoat of the SMP - and Jack is the one that is always ignored.

they both try to get any type of attention, they're so desperate for someone to care. Tommy gets that attention, and he only realizes he doesn't like it after the fact.

jack never gets that attention.

jack sees Tommy getting all this attention, he sees him doing the exact same things as him but getting the result he never gets, and he gets upset.

during the season one finale, he specifically aims the nukes to Tommy's house. it's a desperate last attempt, maybe if he gets rid of the person getting more attention, he'll get the recognition he so very craves.

tl;dr: jack manifold and tommyinnit are so similar in a very tragic way and i have brain rot over it

[charles-simmons]

If there's something I love is seeing how people draw c!Tommy. Especially about his age.

Some people draw him with more childlike features. He looks younger, more "helpless" in a way. You can really see it's a child soldier. Someone who is not ready in any way to be in those situations, but is there anyway with a confident face and a loud voice. It's very visible he should not be there and how wrong it all is.

But other people draw him looking a bit older, looking more like someone who's soon to become an adult. In a way he looks less innocent, even when he's still the victim. He resembles Wilbur a bit more, and he doesn't look as helpless when next to Dream. But here's the thing, he's still a child soldier. He might act like he knows what he's doing, use big words, and act all powerful. And it's not that visible how wrong it all is, but it's still there.

You'll look at him and see this seventeen-ish years old guy, and, in a first glance, it won't feel as wrong. But when you really look at him, that's when you notice how vulnerable Tommy is. Surrounded by people who are more mature, more powerful, and who hate his guts. And you'll start to notice how easily influenced he can be, which seems unlikely for someone who always expresses what he thinks. And you'll start to notice he was never as ready as he says he was. And you'll start to notice how most of the messes he got himself into had completely disproportional consequences to him.

And after all of that, you'll look at him again, and maybe he even looks a bit older, but you can still see it. The child behind the loud voice and the bright smile, holding a sword that is just his size, but will always feel a bit too big for him.

[killin-kel]

second part of my Dream SMP character design analysis because a lot of people liked that in my animatic. and now it's Tommy's turn!

(you can find first part with Wilbur's design here)

[appleflavoredkitkats]

sometimes i think about l'manberg as meaning-makers.

they are what made the dsmp transcend minecraft as a statistical, skill-centric game into something where meaning is arbitrary. this works in both an in-narrative and meta angle. on one hand, power in the dsmp before l'manberg was centered on pvp and resources (and ultimately, that also dictated how power is gained and lost for the rest of the dsmp's lifetime). that's the main thing they were fighting against, yeah? that people in l'manberg were not as physically skilled in a more strategic, game-like minecraft sense compared to the dteam and their allies.

l'manberg is literally the introduction of power derived from personal meaning and interests, something more supposedly "arbitrary" than, let's say, being able to pvp like techno or dream. it's the one thing you cannot measure compared to physical power (like dream's insane pvp skills) or resources (dream's ability to build the prison with sam, or dream and the emerald duo being able to blow up nlm). l'manberg literally sets the precedent of the dsmp being controlled by! arbitrary means!

it works in good and bad ways, because i mean like. defying the status quo of power is one thing, but how is a completely other thing. how every l'manbergian viewed l'manberg isn't the same with each other, especially wilbur. besides all the principles he designates to the idea of l'manberg, we can't ignore that he literally brings up geopolitical constructs into the dsmp like discussions of economy (salmon being their main produce) or police (his answer of what they'll do abt pet deaths). but of course meaning-making isn't bad, because, i mean, look at the discs! at the pets everyone owns!

i joke about everyone needing to apologize to the dsmp after the minecraft movie trailer dropped because. the dsmp will forever encapsulate the meaning of minecraft better than that movie ever will. there is always a constant discussion of power - entertaining that this game, this server is winnable. the closemindedness people can have when dictating how minecraft should be played (ie. dream on the pvp side, wilbur on the narrative side) versus minecraft being something entirely up to your decision, something that is a shared space of people with varying opinions and thought processes.

yeah i'm crazy about l'manberg actually, and the precedent it set in the dsmp. what it challenges and what it's caused. what it challenged and reinforced. what a crazy nation

[star-cluster-nyx]

Unstoppable force vs Immovable object but it's cclingy duo

You would think that Tommy - unstoppable force due to him always leading/being the face of the conflict (wether that is good or bad is up to you to decide) and Tubbo - immovable object because he's always the one following,

WRONG

Tommy - immovable object

Tubbo - unstoppable force

Let me tell you why; Tommy's sole motivation (and also fatal flaw) is that he Can't move on, he doesn't like change. He wants to go back to the 'good old days' in L'manburg where everyone was friends and the conflict wasn't real. Before cWilbur's mania transformed him into a shell of the man he was, before cTechno, before cDream, before the discs, before everyone and everything it was cTommy and cTubbo against the world, and cTommy Cannot. Let. Go. He thinks this idealised version of his memories is both achievable and the thing that will make everything Right again. Will make him happy again.

On the other hand, cTubbo Does Not like to linger. cTubbo strives to be as logical and methodical in his actions as he can, meaning that, from early on he learned not to rely on his emotions. Which ultimately makes him reject the past as much as possible.

Who cares if cEret betrayed them, they have way too much power to make an enemy of. Who cares if cTechno was the one who took his second(?) life and caused 3rd degree burns all over his body, he is willing to help him find cMicheal and that's all that matters now.

Plus, with the weight of the L'manburg presidency on his shoulders from a young age, he has to make decisions that benefit the collective/the country as fairly as possible, and make them Quick. He has no time for emotions, or trauma. He bottles both very tightly.

There are decisions to be made, people to protect, things to do. He cannot afford to linger on the past, nevermind he Doesn't Want to. Because thinking about it leads to remembering, and... Thats not a path he's willing to follow. He doesn't let himself feel negative emotions, because he doesn't believe it will result in something meaningful. He doesn't understand how that hurts him more in the end, or better yet, he doesn't let himself acknowledge how that hurts him more in the end.

So... Yeah. This is not an in-depth analysis or anything. This is more me trying to put myself in the mind of the characters. Please feel free to share your thoughts!

[valentinesworld4ever]

c!tommy is the epitome of humanity, he's been hurt and yet has hurt, he's loved and has been loved, his character is tragically ironic, from the beginning of his story wilbur (during the l'manburg arc) was the reason dream hated Tommy (in which caused all his dream related trauma), and being apart of the reason tommy lost his his friendship with tubbo, and then the only person he trusts at this point, his brother, is then manipulated by the enemy, the sole person they both hated was the reason wilbur was manipulated into hurting tommy again, and that's why he was so human, even people like Phil and techno hurt and betrayed tommy because they didn't see him for what he is, the way jshlatt didn't, wilbur didn't and dream CERTAINLY didnt, EVERYONE up until quackity didn't see him for what he is, a kid, and by the time he meets quackity the one adult who sees Tommy, the real tommy, the loud, playful, gentle kid, he's manipulated back into the same abusive cycle as before, it's sad how everyone around him removed Tommy's humanization from him, they dehumanized him, they saw him as an enemy or a pawn, not a teenager and that's why he's so tragic, time and time again he's hurt and for reasons he could never control, and thats why when he was driven to the point of suicide during the exile arc it was so much sadder, because Tommy is so remarkably human, and so tragically a child

A/n; tell me if I should do more of these because I love yapping 👅👅 also sorry for any mistakes it's not proofread!!

[tobi-smp]

you know, with hindsight now what it is I really do think a more literal reading of c!techno's chat would have helped his characterization a Lot

and mind you, this was originally intended to be the case, and very well may have been intended all along even if it wasn't usually emphasized within the lore

and don't get me wrong, I Get why it fell out of favor within the fandom. it coincides with a Very storied ableist trope that demonizes DID and disorders adjacent to it, and Can be spoken about in a way that is essentially indistinguishable from it depending on the word choice.

but the thing is ! not only does it not Have to be an allegory for DID, I straight up don't think it is At All.

because we Know what it's an allegory for. It's His Chat. there's technoblade playing the game, and there's the thousands of people watching with expectations and wants that he's compelled to meet (or, at the very least, pacify through Entertainment).

and this makes much Much more sense when conceived of as Supernatural. be that spirits, gods, demons, or anything that could fill that role. separate entities that, for whatever reason, only techno can sense the presence of and be affected by.

and of course, to an extent this is true for all creators. everyone had an audience that they were meant to entertain and the choices they made were influenced by that fact.

but technoblade came in with a Very distinct set of expectations that heavily impacted the choices he was Expected to make and the kinds of stories that he could tell. he was more or less a living legend in real life just as much as he was in roleplay, and these things were inherently connected.

and it's like !

when c!technoblade says he was peer pressured into killing tubbo at the red festival he Is technically talking about what happened within the roleplay. schlatt was demanding it from him, there's a sort of pressure there. but schlatt was also the dictator they were set to kill, and techno has never had any trouble fighting people he considered a dictator before, and certainly not Schlatt of all people.

but he WAS being peer pressured By His Audience. by thousands of people, most of which were demanding blood Because It Was The Expectation, because it'd be Fun.

out of universe technoblade made the decision he thought would be the most Entertaining, and he was right! consistently he made choices that would let him do the most bombastic Spectacles possible. And It's Great. he's Excellent at pulling dramatics and making a compelling scene that give other people room to work off of. in that sense I'd consider techno an Excellent actor, and I have to imagine that he was fun to work with.

the problem is when you then have to justify it from an in character perspective, grounded in those mushy things like Feelings with characters that can be traumatized and sustain lasting damage, Especially Without acknowledging the out of character incentive.

mind you, it's not Impossible to Create a backstory that could justify it. why a character as consistently powerful and feared as technoblade would feel pressured to kill an ally by someone he not only Can kill but Wanted To Kill. why a character as seemingly secure and in control as technoblade would lash out the way that he does to perceived betrayal, and yet consistently puts no weight onto having killed and permanently scarred an ally that trusted him.

what that'd need is tragedy. a storied history of being hurt and having to survive. building up To an untouchable god from a much much more vulnerable position. Long Lasting trauma that's lead to this deep insecurity and paranoia. and that's Possible and that's Compelling.

but it's just not in the text.

not only did we never learn basically Anything that c!technoblade was up to pre-series, we actually know Less by the end than when we started because of the sbi retconning.

it's a Theoretically Possible interpretation that's technically never Contradicted by canon, but would have to be created by scratch. it's a compelling idea for a fan fic (and one I'd like to read) and it's compelling for a theoretical recontextualization of the character, but it's just not In The Text.

meanwhile, we have the video above.

we have the Objective Fact that technoblade's decision making was often subject to the rule of cool (very Very effectively) to entertain his audience.

and most compellingly, these concepts Don't Need To Be Separate. in fact, in my opinion they're Stronger when you put them together.

because the thing is. it's Difficult to imagine techno as ever being in a vulnerable position. he is just Objectively more powerful than everyone else on the server, both in real life And within the lore. How could he have ever been afraid when he was stronger than anyone and everyone combined? when we saw with our own eyes that techno could face nearly the whole server at once and win.

but he Is a tragic character, at least he's meant to be. and that tragedy makes much Much more sense as something Inward.

technoblade as a character who Needs connection, who Needs stability, who Needs security, who Needs friendship and community and Love. but Lashes Out, Obliterates to the core of the earth, because of something that's not only out of his control but that other people Cannot Understand.

how do you explain to a child that you killed their best friend because a chorus of the undead called for his blood and you (in all the glory that he'd idolized) were unable to do anything but comply? how do you explain to that child that you beat him senseless in a pit as the restless dead jeered and laughed?

That's interesting. That's Compelling.

technoblade is idolized like a god, feared like a force of nature, and in an instant cut himself off from nearly everyone who'd considered him an ally. and that seems to be a pattern, over and over and over again. he's left isolated, and in return he faces retaliation, and in return he's always Waiting for retaliation.

and what do you say to someone who wants to kill you for being a monster? that it's Fine Actually because you only did what you did because you have a curse that compels you to? that the supernatural guided you to destroy their homes and kill their people? (rip jack manifold you will be missed)?

That Doesn't Quite Help Your Case.

technoblade as someone who is beholden to this literal cycle of violence and Loses those things that could ground him, community, stability, People, as a result. who Tries to overcome this very fact (to become a better person, in his own words as per the clip above), but is pulled back into it as a consequence of his own actions.

that's a tragedy !! that Makes Sense. that allows him to be Both this force of nature that other characters have to survive And A Person Who Is Hurt By The Same Conflict.

"I'm a person!" that fear of dehumanization makes So So Much More Sense when you see technoblade as someone who Already fears himself. who fears being a monster, who fears losing control, who has faced isolation again and again and again.

and, importantly, it doesn't have to be anyone else's Fault.

by making the source both Internal and Completely External (something that none of the other characters have any awareness or control over), you can Have techno as a tragic character without demonizing anyone else Or erasing the impact that c!techno had on them.

and in that sense, it Can be an allegory for mental illness, but not in that direct "oooooh how scary he hears voices" kind of way that people fear it looks. but in that sometimes people Will do things that can hurt others while not feeling in control. anger and mania and paranoia, things that you can't always Control and yet that impact that you have on other people still Matters.

and the answer to that is, often, vulnerability and accountability.

I think a lot about technoblade isolating himself so near entirely from the rest of the server, and slowly gathering a support system Back by the end. and I Really Do think that framing of it through this lens is a Very impactful way of breaking it down.

tubbo, tommy, wilbur, ranboo, niki, I think they'd All understand not feeling in control. lashing out, maybe even feeling justified in the moment, but hurting people they care about and furthering their own isolation.

There's Something There, and it's already In The Text. it just needs to be expanded on.

and why not do that ourselves now?

[lilyminer]

I keep trying to summarize or make grand, all encompassing statements about dsmp-c!Philza as a character but I keep running into the same problem. And maybe someone more skilled in character analysis than me would be able to work around this issue. But everything I try to say about how c!Philza was actually played by Phil keeps getting thrown off by Fucking November 16th. And it’s so dumb because it was originally planned that c!Wilbur would die in the actual explosion, which means my carefully constructed character analysis keeps being thrown off by god damn minecraft-based technical issues 🥲.

C!Philza is such a morally complex, tortured, strangely empathetic (despite the circumstances) character but it’s so hard to reconcile any of his actual character motivations and actions with the objective fact he murdered his suicidal son after like, a minute of begging. I’m not saying without this he’d be a morally good character, of course not. I just find him so much more compelling as a character when removed from the spur of the moment actions which ooc wise, were never part of the plan.

Idk, I just look at his character after the end of his story. I look at the doomsday attack and think “yeah that’s totally in character for him” but I just can’t say the same for the 16th. I’ve never been able to get in the characters head in that moment, only the cc’s, which, ya know, kinda takes me out of the fiction.

[mango-macaron]

I'm just adding my 2 cents on C!Tommy and C!Tubbo.

He's one of the main characters, or THE main character really. The plot of him and Dream is kind of the whole reason the plot really started to develop.

I think he's incredibly tragic as an actual analysis. He's incredibly traumatised and doesn't actually get to live as a teenager. He's chucked into something he doesn't understand, becomes a child soldier for something he didn't really want, all the people he tries to lean on can't really help him.

Tubbo too. He drifts away from Tommy, endures much more than an actual teenager should. Hell, he got ASSASSINATED. He was BY his best friend with a conflict they can't win.

Not only that, they drift away from each other as well. The one thing that brought them together also breaks them.

That's a lot of relationships that also do that: The one thing that joins you together also destroys you.

Usually, you communicate it to your partner/friend/family member/etc so you can grow closer together and talk about your boundaries.

But they're in war, so they don't have any time to. And when it's over they keep drifting. And drifting. Away from each other.

The one therapist can only handle so much, and the burden on the two isn't spoken about by the others.

Yes, it's over. But there's still trauma around what they went through. That they shouldn't have actually participated in.

[bleue-flora]

why do people think cdream was obsessed with ctommy like i read stellos analysis on it and its well written and nice but they fail to take into account that cdream has a persona and 90 percent of the time is not telling the truth

Ummm well many reasons actually. Ones I’ve talked about a bit before, but basically I think it actually comes down to Tommy himself for a few reasons.

a) Firstly, I think because Tommy believes it, it’s hard for us not to believe it. In other words, by watching his stream, being in his head, that perception is ingrained into the lore itself so we are more inclined to believe it, simply because the character we are watching through does. This is true not just for Tommy but other characters as well and it makes sense, we are seeing things for the first time through their eyes - how could it not taint our view? This is also not helped by the fact that Dream leans into Tommy’s expectations. In multiple scenes we see him bring to life Tommy’s world view, giving him and us more inclination to take it at face value. Like Dream becomes who Tommy thinks he is so it makes it really convincing from Tommy’s head to believe it.

b) Secondly, in many ways Dream is obsessed with Tommy. Sure not in the way Tommy thinks - like him constantly trying to kill him and take his discs and yada yada… but he tears up Tommy’s whole yard for Tommy’s discs, he fights wars for the discs against Tommy, and in some ways that is Tommy obsessing over Dream forcing Dream to engage. The problem I think is not so much that Dream is really obsessed with Tommy but that he’s obsessed with keeping his “big happy family” and Tommy continues to threaten that and be the center of chaos and conflict, there by making him a priority for Dream. And it doesn’t help that Tommy is also the very center of Dream’s hurt, and beginning and end of his downfall.

c) Lastly, and I think probably most notably, I kinda touched upon this already, but because Tommy is obsessed with Dream, he forces Dream to constantly be involved with him, making it look like a focus/obsession/priority when Dream really may be just trying to defend himself, defend his friends, get back his stuff… etc. Dream can’t not be involved with Tommy because just like the finale Tommy inserts himself right at Dream’s throat again.

So is Dream obsessed with Tommy? Or is he obsessed with getting to live his life, something Tommy continues to make impossible?

And yea the fact alone that Spirit, Mars, and Bekerson existed before Tommy and that Dream built a prison but plans on putting Skeppy in a little cage, should be enough to highlight that Dream is talking nonsense in the disc confrontation about Tommy being the key and him needing Tommy alive and yada yada… like it should be enough to showcase that maybe he isn’t really obsessed with Tommy like he depicts. But perhaps it’s much easier to believe that narrative than the one that Dream is actually a relatively sane person who’s just lying (like he’s accused to be lol - “All you do is lie, Dream…”). It’s a less messy reality then the what ifs and considerations and dissecting needed to find the actual truth. And who doesn’t want to just do the things that are easier?…

[mioakem]

ctommy…with skirt over jeans…junofication of ctommy…

[pseudosaprophyte]

i think i’ve realized a niche archetype i really enjoy is character with religious trauma from a made-up religion. i think a character being like “i was raised christian and it fucked me up” is way less interesting to me because i’ve seen that a thousand times and i have my own preconceived biases and opinions about it, but a character being like “i was raised in this institutional and powerful religion where we worship blogar the blowjob god and it fucked me up” is SO INTERESTING! like, who are the people in charge of blogarism? what are they trying to accomplish by using this religion to their advantage? what are their rules and codes of conduct and what are they based in? why blowjobs?

[luckanio]

so i read the great gatsby for english

no explanations (i dont even know why i paired these myself, this is purley off of Gut Feelings (though gatsby and tom for tntduo is because of the whole sort of rivalry showed in the Las Nevadas bit) (there was this one tweet i saw from an ao3 author who said that the characters in their fics are not the dsmp but a boiling pot of all the various interpretations of characters that they've seen throughout all fics and artwork and such) (and that's basically me for everyone except technoblade))

nick as c!ranboo daisy as c!tommy gatsby (yes, the great one) as c!wilbur tom as c!quackity wilson as c!tubbo myrtle as michael (yeah, the piglin kid)

[nomsfaultau]

RELIGION? IN MY DSMP? MORE LIKELY THEN YOU THINK

Anyways would you like to have a debate like Ancient Greek scholars about religious imagery on the DSMP

“…and every revival only births a perversion of the original, and yet a return to form and renewal of the mission. Wilbur brought back to ambition, Tommy to fear, Techno to anarchy. This is because they were not properly revived through holy means, instead in symbols associated with satanic imagery; a grimoire, a totem. The revival book’s association with Dream echos ideas of Satan offering power that ultimately corrupts. Other symbols of Christianity show up beyond souls, revival, and satanic imagery, likewise tied to Dream. In the garden of Eden—”

“Golden apple as a symbol of the temptation of power! Of course of course! Knowledge as power, the fall of man from grace. This shows particular on the summit meeting between Techno and Dream, wherein a god apple is given by Dream. This falls neatly into parallel with Eden, where Eve is lured with the promise of having the same wisdom and thus power as god. It is the temptation presented, power promised in the same breath as suffering and conflict…”

[ka3trv]

I was watching an old vod of Quackity in the dsmp and realized how good of a villian c!schlatt is. Only from c!quackity’s pov we can watch as c!schlatt loses himself to the maniac and power-craving side, becoming the full unstable corrupted character that he is. And, yes I used to be obsessed with the dream smp (I’m delulu it’s 2am)

[x-i-l-verify]

「Dream SMP Daemon AU 」

    ⚔ TECHNOBLADE + ALEKSAIX (BROADSWORD) ⚔

Piglins, as denizens of the Nether, do not have daemons as Overworlders do. Rather, their souls take the form of weapons, called morai-kelul ("forged-self"). Morai-kelul come in all shapes and sizes, from swords, knives, spears, bows, maces, hammers, sickles, clubs, chains, brass knuckles, and many, many more. When a piglin child reaches the equivalent of one year of age, their main adult caretakers, blood-related or not, will bring them into the village forge, and begin construction on the child's morai-kelul in a very sacred series of rituals that take months to complete. The construction always involves at least some amount of gold, a spiritual, coveted metal to piglins. Once the weapon is forged, it is named for an aspirational virtue or concept that their caretakers wish to impart to them, such as "bravery," "insight," "candor," etc.

As the piglin grows and changes over time, however, the first morai-kelul forged by their caretaker(s) will eventually break. This happens to everyone at some point in their lives, and is a very painful event mentally and emotionally. When this happens, the piglin must construct a new morai-kelul with the pieces of the old one, which always takes a form different from the first. A spear might become a dagger, an axe might become a crossbow, a sword might become a shield, etc. Outside of this event, morai-kelul are indestructible by most normal means unless their piglin dies, in which case they become a normal, inanimate object.

Unlike Overworlders and their daemons, there is no limit to how far a piglin can travel away from their morai-kelul, and they can summon them from over great distances. The only exceptions to this are traveling from the Nether to the Overworld, the Overworld to the End or the Nether, or traveling between servers; if a piglin tries to go between servers or dimensions without their morai-kelul, they will instantly become like a zombie, with a living body but no conscious mind.

Piglins have no issue with touching each other's morai-kelul. In fact, it is common for piglins, especially the children, to go up to someone with a really cool-looking one and ask to hold it so they can examine it more closely. However, the morai-kelul must be handed to them in order for them to hold it. For example, if Philza tried to pick up Aleksaix off the table or off the ground, he would not be able to; Technoblade would need to hand it to him in order for him to carry it properly. Mates swap morai-kelul during their wedding ceremonies, and fighting with someone else's morai-kelul is considered the highest show of intimacy and trust a piglin can display.

Morai-kelul do not speak with an audible voice like facets such as daemons do. Rather, they communicate in projected feelings and images. Normally, only its piglin half can communicate directly with it, but if it is being held by someone else, it can communicate with that person as well. They also are always referred to as "it" rather than with gendered pronouns.

Technoblade is wary, blunt and insincere. Aleksaix embodies his idealistic, sensitive, trusting side.

~

NAME MEANING "Aleksaix" means "responsibility" in the piglin tongue. It is rather uncommon for piglins to freely tell others the name of their morai-kelul without knowing them well first, so Technoblade has taken to saying the name of his is Orphan Obliterator as in inside joke. Very few people are familiar enough with piglin culture to call him on this.

~

SOURCES I took this concept and many ideas surrounding it from this person's concept for Asgardian daemons, so credit where credit is due.