#dopplegangland

[girl4music]

WILLOW: “It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.”

BUFFY: “Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person it was.”

ANGEL: “Well, actually...

*gets a look from Buffy*

That's a good point.”

Can we discuss how ‘Doppelgängland’ presents a study case for Vampire Willow being like human Willow if Willow was suddenly missing an internal moral compass? I talk about Willow’s repressed sadism a lot and some overwhelming evidence for it is that there exists a vampire version of her in canon that’s a literal sadist and is just as evil as Angelus is. That enjoys inflicting torture and pain purely for fun. That has a good old time being indisputably sadistic.

Dark Willow - even though she has a soul and is human - thrives in the killing and the torturing of Warren and Rack. Yeah, she’s corrupted by black magic and feels nothing but vengeance, anger and hate. And yes, the people she does end up actually killing deserved it. But the point is that this is what she can be like even when HUMAN, even when ENSOULED. So Vampire Willow is interesting because that’s a Willow that isn’t either human or ensouled and how sadistic and evil she can be without an internal moral compass and without her humanity is reminiscent of Dark Willow.

And so I can’t help thinking that maybe that vampire has nothing to do with the demon that “possesses” Willow. Maybe the reason why that particular vampire is “so evil… and skanky… and kinda gay” is because that’s the human that the vampire is informed by. That it’s because it’s Willow why Vampire Willow is like that.

And I know it’s just for jokes why they had Angel start to say what he did in response to Buffy’s comment to Willow in trying to reassure her that that vampire is just an evil demon and has no bearing on her character at all… But I really wish we had got to hear what he was going to say. If I had to guess I feel like he was going to say something like “Well, actually… that’s not quite true. A vampire’s personality is still informed by the human that died even if it is not the person it was.”

But with Vampire Willow… the question is just how much of alternative human Willow informs her and how much is really just a demon from the ethers “possessing” the body of the alternative human Willow that died? You would think adding this particular situation on to the soul lore would be in support for it being demon possession… but I’m not so sure that that is so when much of the Willow that we see later on is what we get with Vampire Willow.

See for me, ‘Doppelgängland’ comes off more as foreshadowing than it does in being an addition to the soul lore that provides evidence for the perspective that vampires are a demon possession of a dead human because it does the entire opposite in telling and showing that to be the truth as they give us a significant look in to what Willow would be like both without a soul and without her humanity - which for me don’t mean the same thing because I don’t think of the soul that way. See, I have a very specific understanding of what a “soul” is and I don’t think of it as the human itself or as the person itself. I think of it as an internal moral compass for the human or person.

Which then further means if that human or person is suddenly bit by a vampire and dies - it doesn’t come back as a vampire because its body is possessed by a demon. It comes back as a vampire because IT IS a demon. A newly created or newly born demon in a human body that is informed by both the demon AND the human respectively. That’s why and how it can’t be a possession by the demon or human because possession means it’s an entirely different entity from the demon or human. And a vampire isn’t because it’s a half-breed of both the demon and the human. So it is still the same entity that died all the while becoming a newly created entity. It is, essentially, a resurrection or reincarnation of the human or person that died but just with personality traits and qualities that are only evil and sadistic in nature depending on what the human or person could be capable of that the newly created demon exacerbates in them with abandon.

Vampire Willow is a very interesting study case for this because what she is depends on whether human Willow can be capable of being that evil and sadistic all the while being a human. And… she can… as Dark Willow eventually and inevitably shows us. Yes, for her to get there it required the themes of power corruption, addiction and vengeance… but the point is that she was still capable of it. And, for me, it only just proves that if somebody that pure can become that evil and sadistic as a human… then so could we all.

Vampire Willow is not a study case for vampires being entirely different from their human counterparts. It’s a study case for learning that they are or can be alike if they’re missing an internal moral compass and therefore their emotions or desires were not being repressed. Vampire Willow is an uninhibited entity. They make that very clear in the writing when using it in juxtaposition with human Willow’s inhibitedness. Willow even acknowledges that both her and Vampire Willow feel like the world’s “no fun” anymore but then recedes that acknowledgement in the final scene, realizing that being “reliable dog geyser person” isn’t so bad. That she could actually be the entire opposite to that and she never wants to be like Vampire Willow if this is the pain and damage that she could cause.

So Vampire Willow truly is what we would get if human Willow was completely free of all constraints on her good character. If she suddenly believed that she didn’t need to be the good person she always is and could do what she wants without any thought for the risks or consequences of her actions and choices and without any concern for any pain or damage she may cause through her carelessness and recklessness. It is very much in her capability and nature to become what we see of Vampire Willow’s appearance. And I think that if Xander had not have been able to save Willow in ‘Grave’, this is precisely what Willow would have become. Not simply just Dark Willow. But Evil and Sadistic Willow. She would have lost her humanity.

Fortunately… she still possessed an internal moral compass and so her humanity won over the battle and Vampire Willow remained just a fantasy in fan-fiction. But it does give me pause to realize that Willow’s selfishness, arrogance and entitlement in Season 6 would still inform everything that Vampire Willow is precisely because she is the human psyche for her.

[confusedguytoo]

You know what's funny about Willow in Dopplegangland? Besides her reaction to being called reliable

But people get upset about her use of magic, when the only problem with what she did was moving her hand wrong. The stuff she was supposed to be doing because friends and/or authority figures wanted her to do was do a classmate's schoolwork and hack into the mayor of the town's computer

[dream-dyke]

“i’m storming off. it doesn’t really work if you come with me.”

[goingrampant]

Okay, how about this: They don't send her back to the Wishverse but instead a Hell dimension so she doesn't harm humans but can have an opportunity to thrive in a demon gangland environment? There could be a follow-up episode where the Scoobies wind up there and everyone mistakes Willow for her, too.

Brainstorming Different Endings To Doppelgangland

Inspired by this post (and the reply from @secretlyasummers), here are some ways that Doppelgangland could have ended that don't necessarily involve the gang cheerfully sending a soulless vampire back to her own world because she misses killing and torturing people. Would these have been any better than the canon version? No, but they'd all have annoyed me in a slightly different way.

1) Vampire!Willow doesn’t come back to the Bronze after being captured in the library.  The gang debate about what to do with her, with Willow being keen that she get to live (just as she is in canon), but when they get back to the library they discover she’s managed to break free.  Last shot of the episode is her heading out of town.  She may or may not be coming back.

1A) As in (1) but we actually get to see that our Willow deliberately left her something to help her escape (much like Xander’s Lie, this can be something she hides from the others and which seems like it should be really important but that the show only ever half-heartedly follows up on once and only in its final season)

1B) As in (1) but – tying up the episode, which began with the Mayor telling Faith he was going to have Willow killed – while heading out of town vamp!Willow runs into Faith and is staked

1C) As in (1) but – remembering who the vamps she recruited originally worked for – vamp!Willow tries to kill the Mayor to take over as Big Bad, finds out he is invincible and is (again) staked

2) Rather than kill her, our Willow offers to try to cast a spell to give her a soul.  Vamp!Willow is so disgusted by the thought of being like her dimension’s version of Angel (or, really, any universe’s version of Angel) that she stakes herself instead

2A) As in (2) but rather than kill her, our Willow casts a spell that she promises Buffy will render vamp!Willow harmless until they can figure out what to do with her.  Good news: rat!Amy now has a new friend!  (She is prone to biting but that just means she’s friendly.)

2B) As in (2) but rather than offer to give her a soul, Willow just does it without worrying about any question of  permission or consent.  (This doesn’t change the plot much, but it’s arguably much more in character.)

3) The episode’s plot plays out more or less the same but at some point Anya drops the exposition that, because the spell she and Willow carried out wasn’t done properly, in a few hours after being brought to this world vamp!Willow is going to return to her own dimension anyway.  The audience gets to hear this but the Scooby Gang doesn't  Just as Buffy and Willow are arguing about what to do with vamp!Willow, she vanishes.  Cut to her being staked by Wishverse!Oz just as in canon.

3A) As in (3) but we don’t see what happens to vamp!Willow in her own dimension, freeing up the possibility of her returning to the show again. 

4) The episode just plays out exactly as it does in canon, but we don’t get the (slightly cowardly) reveal that what the Gang did is actually fine because vamp!Willow got staked immediately anyway.  This (rightly) makes fans of the show a bit more uneasy about what the Gang chose to do. (This also makes the return of vamp!Willow in later episodes possible.)

5) Anticipating Season 4, the episode ends with D’Hoffryn showing up and saying how delighted he is by all the chaos and devastation caused by Willow’s spell.  He lets her know – much to Anya’s chagrin – that a vacancy for the post of vengeance demon has recently opened up and suggests she might be interested.  Willow is horrified and turns him down, but vampire!Willow accepts in her place and they both disappear before Anya or anyone else can do a thing about it.

6) The episode plays out exactly as it does in canon.  However, sometime in Season 4 we get another Wishverse crossover episode, this time with the Wishverse’s version of Kendra traveling to our world for some reason.  Willow cheerfully asks how the other Willow is getting on, and a horrified Kendra asks her if she’s really admitting to sending a vampire back to terrorize the population of Sunnydale (she then turns to Buffy, looks disappointed, and shakes her head: “no wonder you died”).

7) Vampire!Willow doesn’t come back to the Bronze after being captured in the library.  The gang debate about what to do with her, with Willow being keen that she get to live (just as she is in canon), but the Gang’s deliberations are interrupted by the arrival of the Wishverse version of Jesse, battle-scarred and wearing an eyepatch, who delivers a long speech about how much time and effort he has spent studying magic to bring her back to his dimension to face justice.  (Xander is conveniently out of the room for this whole thing, while it becomes obvious as the speech progresses that Buffy cannot remember who Jesse was.) After Jesse and Vampire!Willow vanish, this scene is never explained or commented on again by anyone.

[juanabaloo]

LGBTQ BTVS t-shirt ideas:

And I think I'm kinda gay. - Willow (twice)

(part 8 / ? for Pride Month) (insp)

[normallyxstranger]

@bewitchingbaker sent: "Write me a starter where...Chris and Andy encounter dopplegangers."

     Andy’s eyes went wide when she saw two very familiar figures standing across the street. Immediately, she slapped her hand rapidly against Chris’s arm.

     “Look! Over there! I told you I thought I saw you earlier!”

     It appeared she’d seen someone who looked an awful lot like her friend—no, not an awful lot like but exactly like—and now there was someone who looked like her. 

     Shapeshifters? Demons? A glamour spell? Counterparts from another world? No option could amount to anything good.

     “Holy shit.” She narrowed her eyes. “Do I really look like that? Oh my gods, I'm hot.” But this was no time to bask in her vanity. Andy shook it off. “C’mon. Let’s get to the bottom of this.”

[baelavelaryon]

anya jenkins you mean so much to meeee

[5bi5]

Vampire Willow in Dopplegangland

[liam-summers]

Buffy the Vampire Slayer | 03.16 | Dopplegangland

[girl4music]

FAVOURITE BTVS EPISODE FOR EVERY SEASON

Season 1: Nightmares

Season 2: Becoming (Part 1)

Season 3: Doppelgängland

Season 4: Restless

Season 5: Family

Season 6: Once More, With Feeling

Season 7: Conversations With Dead People

Yours?

[btvsepisodetournament]

Round 3 Poll 3

Passion: Angel steps up his torment of Buffy and her friends as Jenny searches for a way to restore his soul.

Dopplegangland: While casting a magic spell, Anya and Willow accidentally summon Willow's evil double from an alternate universe.

[dream-dyke]

“you think i’m boring.”

“i’d call that a radical interpretation of the text.”

[spuffybot]

Rating BTVS ships I don’t ship:

1. Fred & Wesley: I don’t really ship Fred with anyone because I think she deserved to be on her own and to come into her own strength and power without a man. But this ship does have a decent amount of pining, which I appreciate. It definitely gets points for enduring Fred’s crush on Angel and her love triangle with Gunn. And we can’t forget that it also comes to one of the most painful ends and I challenge you not to cry when Fred becomes Illyria. Still, Fred died to further the emotional and narrative arc of a man so we’re gonna have to dock points for that.

5/10

2. Fangel (Faith & Angel): ok so this is not a super popular ship and I genuinely don’t understand why. I don’t ship it, but it wouldn’t take a lot to make me ship it. These two have amazing chemistry, they’re trauma bonded, they’ve got that whole inner darkness thing going on. There’s something sexy about Angel wanting to save Faith when she doesn’t want to be saved. Plus Angel is so repressed and Faith is so innately sexual. The inevitable smut just writes itself. WOW. Am I talking myself into this one? Do I ship this now?

10/10

3. Spanya (Spike & Anya): I’ve always appreciated the small moments we got between Spike and Anya. They are both genuinely hilarious and I feel like it was a missed opportunity not to have these two extremely old supernatural creatures who are hanging out with a bunch of 20 year old humans vibe more. That being said, I just don’t feel the sexual tension between them. The scene where they hook up is brilliant but it’s not about them it’s about the people they love who don’t love them the same way. So while I think these two make fabulous friends, I’m just not sold on them as a couple. If anything they’re too similar. Snarky, broken, hopeless for love (but overcompensating because they hurt so deeply.) I guess if you’re someone who defines compatibility as similarity this is a ship for you.

3/10

4. Joyce & Giles: Buffy already has so much parent drama, can you imagine if these two actually got together??? But ok let’s break it down, these two have chemistry but it’s entirely linked to the people they used to be. It’s pure midlife crises. And there is something nostalgic and romantic about trying to recapture the wild, carefree, young person you used to be. I also think there’s a bit of jealousy and resentment fueling these two. Joyce resents Giles for being Buffy’s Watcher and for having access to a part of Buffy she doesn’t truly understand. I think this one has some depth but ultimately there isn’t enough between them to justify for than a one night stand or two.

3/10

5. Xander & Willow: So this is a classic story. The girl next door who pines away for the boy who doesn’t notice her. There’s real love and friendship between these two, and even as we inevitably saw, some sexual tension and chemistry. I’ve just never been someone who roots for this dynamic. I didn’t want Dawson to get Joey. I didn’t want Ross to get Rachel. I think there’s too much entitlement and self pity in the long suffering crush to create the fire you need for a really monumental ship. That being said, I do think Xander and Willow are compatible and I do think they deserve a bonus point for their Dopplegangland dopplegangers who I would absolutely ship if we got to see more of them.

4/10

[sunnydaleherald]

The Sunnydale Herald Newsletter, Thursday, October 24

Xander: Dammit! You know what? I'm sick of this crap. I'm sick of being the guy who eats insects and gets the funny syphilis. As of this moment, it's over. I'm finished being everybody's butt-monkey!

~~Buffy vs. Dracula~~

[Drabbles & Short Fiction]

Pretty When (Buffy/Angelus, E) by Anonymous

Cute When She's Sleeping (Buffy/Angelus, E) by Anonymous

Laying the Slayer (Buffy/Xander/Joyce, E) by WestorEast

from my heart and from my hand (Fred/Buffybot, E) by evesock

Time to Heal (2) (Buffy/Spike, SFW) by spuffybaby

Time to Heal (3) (Buffy/Spike, SFW) by spuffybaby

A Man in Shadow (Buffy/Spike, 13+) by Zab Jade

[Chaptered Fiction]

Be Back Before Dawn, Chapter 10 (Buffy/Spike, NC-17) by Blissymbolics

Fury of the Fallen, Chapter 7 (Buffy/Spike, NC-17) by CheekyKitten

Unconditional, Chapter 15 (Buffy/Spike, NC-17) by Blade Redwind

Slayers Interrupted, Chapter 3 (Crossover with Batman, FR18) by BlueStories

Inner Daemons, Chapter 11 (Anime crossover, FR15) by batzulger

A Sword in the Man, Chapter 13 (Buffy/Spike, PG-13) by Desicat

Exorcise, Chapter 9 (Buffy/Spike, PG) by Desicat

Going AstralChapter 4 (Buffy/Spike, R) by Geliot99

reciprocity, Chapter 11 (Buffy/Spike, NC-17) by HappyWhenItRains

[Images, Audio & Video]

Artwork:[Buffy & Spike] by smoochiekissies

Artwork:[Buffy Summers] by tiredartzyaries

Artwork:Ethan and Giles break up by yarboyandy

Artwork: Good luck, babe! Chappell Roan (Buffy version) by theveryunlikelywonderland

Artwork:Good luck, babe! Chappell Roan (Cordelia version) by theveryunlikelywonderland

Manip:Collage #214 by thedecadentraven

Gifset:Buffy Summers + Ponytails by clarkgriffon

Gifset:Buffy Locations: Dracula's Castle (5.01) by 5bi5

Gifset:Faith Lehane + Outfits by clarkgriffon

Gifset:BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER REWATCH-> Nightmares (1.10) by creulsummer

Video: [BTVS Scrapbook] by Scraptasty

[Reviews & Recaps]

50 ̶F̶i̶r̶s̶t̶ Worst Dates | Buffy The Vampire Slayer 7x14 "First Date" | Normies Group Reaction! by The Normies

Buffy the Vampire Slayer 4x21 & 4x22 REACTION | "Primeval" & "Restless" by The Horror Bandwagon

"Tough Love" (5x19) | *Buffy the Vampire Slayer* Reaction by cass reacts

BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER 1X5 REACTION | First Time Watching | Season 1 Episode 5 by Chance's House of Horrors

Dirty Girls: Buffy 7x18 Reaction by Dakara

Buffy-less: S1 E3 by Vampires and Mermaids

Buffy's Angels: Doomed by The Franchise: A Film Podcast

1-06 - The Pack - BUFFY REACTION COMMENTARY PODCAST by Definitely Doomed: A Buffy Commentary Podcast

Buffy's Angels: A New Man by The Franchise: A Film Podcast

Buffy's Angels: The I in Team by The Franchise: A Film Podcast

Buffy's Angels: This Year's Girl by The Franchise: A Film Podcast

Buffy's Angels: Goodbye Iowa by The Franchise: A Film Podcast

Episode 050 - Dopplegangland by Boys Watching Buffy

Episode 052 - Earshot by Boys Watching Buffy

[Recs & In Search Of]

buffy/giles recs recced by buffygiles

spuffy fic rec recced by mistigrisunshine

ISO: Cassie's website from season 7 by fang3d4

[Fandom Discussions]

[Dawn's connection to Joyce's illness] by snixregal and fang3d4

I decided to list the names Spike called Buffy BEFORE he realized he was in love with her by thequeenofsastiel

[Cordelia in Dead Man's Party] by forcebookish

[Spike's reaction to Angelus killing Buffy] by thequeenofsastiel

[Lily and Buffy parallels] by fang3d4

[Buffy leaving her mom with Spike] by thequeenofsastiel

anyone else wish we got more creature!spike? by captivebf

One thing about season 6 that is so sad is how Spike helped the gang all summer just for them to act like he never did. by jjmorelikeotp

one thing I really really love is how Spike is just so...comitted. by jjmorelikeotp

one of the most satisfying moments in the series for me is in 7x21 by thequeenofsastiel

[BTVS season 3 complaints] by stolehisdog

[Dawn was the audience] by fang3d4

[Angel on Spike's soul in ATS season 5] by thequeenofsastiel

my buffy the vampire slayer playlists by puppethistoryhive

Scoobtober: Favorite Buffy Moment? by Plasma

https://buffy-boards.com/threads/are-new-buffy-comics-still-being-made.81315/ by multiple authors

Weekly Watch-Along [18th Oct-25th Oct] by BPD-and-Lipstick

How would (later seasons) Scoobies deal with a Connor situation? by multiple authors

Who else? (I cannot be the only one). by multiple authors

Are the Summers Episcopalians? by multiple authors

3rd season Cordelia is the most beautiful woman in the whole Buffy/Angelverse by multiple authors

Petty Bone to Pick with “This Year’s Girl” (S4) by multiple authors

You deserved so much more, Cordy. by multiple authors

Pure demons.. I'm confused. by multiple authors

What was the public’s response to Buffy’s resurrection when it was aired? by multiple authors

Played the Buffy Board Game last night by multiple authors

Favorite/Least Favorite Cross Over Episode and Why by multiple authors

"If I had any real power..." by multiple authors

S4 and S5 Xander is my favorite Xander by multiple authors

What's Your Favorite Line? I'll go first, What Is Your Childhood Trauma? by multiple authors

Anya by multiple authors

Episode Nitpicks: The Zeppo by multiple authors

Would Buffy and Angel had been as popular if Angel was the show's version of Pike? by multiple authors

Buffy's Impact by multiple authors

Can we talk about… by multiple authors

First time watcher. SMG in this scene? I am amazed by multiple authors

[Articles, Interviews, and Other News]

Publication: Amber Benson Recalls 'Bananas' First Day on Buffy Set 25 Years Later (Exclusive) via TooFab

Submit a link to be included in the newsletter!

Join the editor team :)

[theredpharaoah]

Dopplegangland could’ve been a great episode for Willow to bond with Faith actually. Faith could’ve taught her how to be more assertive and sexy. And Faith wasn’t fully on the dark side yet. Her reaction when the mayor said he was gonna kill Willow was interesting.

[thepunkmuppet]

so I was thinking about the Key plotline as I often do, and the line “the monks made her out of me” is suddenly really interesting to me.

obviously what this means is that they made dawn’s body to have the DNA of joyce and hank, hence her being buffy’s sister and having the same DNA as buffy (“summers blood”). but like imagine taking that line literally.

“the monks made her out of me.” buffy has an identical twin.

obviously they didn’t do this because 1, they wanted a younger character to be in peril and provide variety in the cast, 2, having your lead actor play two characters would probably be much too much for them, and 3, the cost of having sarah play two characters and having to use split screen and doubles and stuff with the limited cgi of the time would just be too much. (dopplegangland was great but they probably couldn’t feasibly do that every episode for three whole seasons)

but just the concept of it is so interesting to me. this twin literally has buffy’s face, buffy’s voice, buffy’s body. but she’s not the slayer. dawn has to deal with being in the shadow of her slayer sister all the time, but the added strain of looking exactly like her and being the same age as her would just be so heartbreaking and interesting to explore.

I also think the impact of the reveal would just slap more. oh my god there’s two buffy’s!?!?!! oh my god buffy has a twin all of a sudden?!?!!!? there would also just be another level of angst, with buffy feeling violated that the monks just made another version of her and essentially used her body, and with the twin feeling like an afterthought, a duplicate, an impostor, etc.

plus them being twins would emphasise their bond more, as twins are supposed to have a really close and special relationship for obvious reasons. the monks made dawn so that buffy would protect her - the two of them having a strong twin bond and remembering a life of growing up doing everything together would really help with that!

also also I just love the idea that if the buffybot still got made, then at one point there would be three buffy’s but only one of them would actually be buffy. absolutely hilarious to me, smg would be working some serious overtime!!

I just love this concept and I might write it as a fic if I can come up with an actual plot. can any of you think of any names for this twin? or would she still be called dawn (what with the whole symbolism of the sun coming up in the gift, the foreshadowing, etc.) if you come up with any more ideas or discussion points about this au please lmk in comments/reblogs/asks etc, I’m obsessed with this idea and I need to talk about it!!!!