#dont ask how they even got into this situation when theyre both transmasc. I dont have a good answer.

[dueling-jesters]

The m-abortion zootopia fancomic spoof wasn't actually accurate. I think White Spy would be supportive, if not more than supportive.

This one's mainly a joke, but done to clear things up. Hope the last bit isn't too suggestive for this site.

[dragonstailbutch]

Hey sorry i am trying to like. find examples of what you mean when you talk about mra stuff and (trans)misogyny in forcemasc content and tumblr search has betrayed me once again, can you explain?

(sorry I normally wouldn't ask but I wanna make sure I'm not perpetuating anything!! Also fucking tumblr search!!! it is ridiculous!)

so ive been sitting on this ask for months since ive got it. i want to do it justice and try to take it at face value that its being honest in asking.

The thing is, theres this trend and a weird amount of effort to be like force femme, to be forceful and like its something to fearful of and give in to. But we cant do that, cause all that does is reinforce the idea that being a man is a toxic thing. I saw this post the other day where a transman talked about like, the whole "raised as a weapon" thing, the violence and horror of being a man and raised that way versus how they felt growng into it as a transman. How they wanted to reclaim that phrase or something? i could be misremembering.

But that was never the intent of forcemasc. It wasnt actually about being a dude, literally *forcing* someone who was unwilling into masculinity, none of the posts that i made that started the community (and yes i, a transfem butch woman, started and made this community and some of yall need to get over yourselves) were ever about that, it was intended to be a soft mimic or even a call to forcefemme.

i was all about making it soft and tender for a reason, cause if i didnt i was only reinforcing the toxic masculinity narrative, "men fighting in the mud" "men are dominant and cool" " to be a man is to be forced into masculinity and to be disgusted with the feminine" or whatever. When masculinity isnt about just men, and being butch isnt just being masculine. masculinity should also be sensitivity, not domination. i wanted it to be better, show a better side of what masculinity could be, what being butch is.

Ive spoken before a bit too, about the tags people used and added to forcemasc, and really maybe i was wrong in ever naming it forcemasc. people used and still use tags like autoandrophilia, autoandrophile, androphile, autogynephilia, androphilia, and autogynephile. Ive seen so many people with urls and tags and posts calling themselves transandrobros, literally calling themselves MRAs, as if that was something to be proud of, as if they dont understand that they arent fighting for their and our rights, they're fighting for cis-mens rights by using those names and terms, not transmascs/transmens rights. I can understand ignorance, but weve talked about how the words you use have history, especially those like the tags i mentioned and androphilia and androphobia and others, all of them have roots in deeeeeeeply misogynistic and transphobic people and history.

Literally all of these are awful and are phrases that arent and wont be reclaimed because theyre history is one of pain and hurting trans people, one of coercive 'help', literal forced detransitioning and reinforcement of MRA and terf narrative that men are both good and the worst creature alive and that to be a woman is to be disgusting and the purest thing all at once. That to be a transwoman is sick and we shouldnt be trusted.

Im trying to be very kind, not scream and rage, not because i dont desperately want to, but because if i do, as a butch transwoman, ESPECIALLY cause i claim being butch, people wont listen to me no matter how much of what i say is meaningful. one of the reasons why im doing this NO, instead of in anothr day or two, is that im coming to terms with the fact that the situation will just get qorse, not better without words.

Part of why im still sane is that ive gotten a couple asks here and there about how my posts and creation of the community has helped them and its so wonderful to see that, genuinely so amazing to see people recontextualize and love themselves. its wonderful and im so fucking happy about it.

i personally made this space so i could love myself, who i am as a trans person and my body, and i knew that other people needed and wanted that for themselves too and i wanted to help, share this love with more people. That to be hairy and chubby and masculine and butch was a nice thing. But to me it feels like it was coerced into being a thing for Men. A thing no longer for me or people like me who share the butch culture and name to no longer enjoy cause people unfamiliar with kink and tran history have decided that masculinity and butchness are the exact same thing. Id say people should go be a bear, but you wont learn their culture either and thats cruel and insulting to bears.

We deserve better You deserve better. Stop falling for the lies and hate. We beg you

[ooglywooglies]

yknow that thing i said awhile ago about how trans men and trans women probably inherently make each other dysphoric. i think i was right, i love my girl mutuals and people i follow and stuff but sometimes all the girlcentric stuff kind of wears me out, like dont stop posting what you wanna post but i need to figure something out.

tags were getting too long so im just continuing the post because i guess i cant express the sentiment i want to without dragging on

if you pay attention to my long posts youve probably figured ive been going through some insecurity issues recently, a lot of it is not helped by the fact that i keep doomscrolling on tumblr and digging into discourse tags like the whole "transandrophobia" thing, ive since changed my mind about that tag btw. yknow how i said before that "its a stupid term that has no basis in reality but the transphobia and misogyny trans men face is a real issue that probably needs a specific name for categorization purposes specifically on tumblr dot com" no i think its not important afterall

mostly because ive been watching the decay of this tag for a long time and it keeps CONSTANTLY getting infiltrated by terfs and transmisogynists and ive been talking to someone who is trying to deradicalize people involved and shes like yeah this whole theory/movement/framing basically encourages self pity and resentment so its a breeding ground for transmisogyny (and regular misogyny) and i think i agree with that

but its hard not to see the problems with this tag/community/whatever it is and the response transfeminists have to it and now just go god transmascs are fucking annoying, and i feel embarrassed to be associated with them

and thats stupid, its basically the same thing as white guilt, yknow that thing where when white people learn racism exists they go oh well im sorry for being alive it would be better if white people were just never born. its like no one asked you to feel sorry for YOURSELF (or anyone else, poc in this situation just want you to be responsible when necessary and be respectful)

so like, im not ashamed of being a trans man i guess, not on the basis that theyre capable of and often perpetuate transmisogyny. i think ive talked before about feeling like being a trans man could be antithetical to feminism because some feminists suggest that manhood/masculinity is an inherently toxic and oppressive class, if thats true transitioning into manhood/masculinity would be a morally objectionable thing to do. i think being a man is not inherently bad, i think that gender is not a choice even if one has some benefits over the other (why would trans women ever "choose" to be women if the only factor of gender was privilege) i think this sentiment im so worried about is something basically only terfs (cis radfems) actually believe and try to perpetuate

but i also mentioned on another post that "tumblr tricks you into thinking trans people are annoying" and also that a lot of transmascs both in the tag but also on this site in general are like not older than 22

a lot of the trans guys i follow or are friends with (none of my twitter guys are here and i dont do twitter anymore) are closer to my age, being in their late 20s and you can FEEL the maturity difference. i think being on tumblr does make you think that all transmascs are basically annoying middle class teenage white people who only watch childrens cartoons and it makes the stereotypes about transmascs feel even HARDER to escape from. I CONSTANTLY feel insecure about having feminine interests, about being minimized and belittled, being infantalized, being emasculated, it really doesnt fucking help that im also (south)east asian and historically east asian people have been like hyperfeminized/emasculated compared to other groups

im not sure if im done with this post or not but i got distracted after writing this so i cant remember if i wanted to say anything else so im just gonna be done now

[matoitech]

hello u dont have to answer this if u dont want, but ur situation with gender is scarily similar to where im at except im in the mindset that im nb wlw and dont rlly kno whats going on. I guess if u kno how to explain it, I wanted to ask how u made that jump or how u could tell it isnt just a "womanhood is like that" kind of thing and is actually "i am a guy"

oh man i wish i had smth that would make it Click for u easier cuz i def understand being rly confused abt this kinda thing.. i got a few Thoughts, idk if they will help u out but hopefully they give u some more thoughts to chew on that will maybe help anyway. this got so long oh hell sorry gbfhg

i think like the main thing as like a tip b4 we get in2 the Meat of it is it is good to relax and b open to thinking abt bein a guy as a possibility, i dont know if this will make sense bc i do not know how to explain it rly but when i was struggling 2 figure stuff out what i had rly needed 2 know was that being a dif gender can just feel like You (but as u become more comfortable w it, you but happier!) for some reason i thought u had to meet certain criteria to b ‘allowed’ to make what seemed 2 me at the time a Leap but thats not how it works lol. u as u r right now can b a guy if u want to or r considering it. u dont have to feel different and u dont have to think abt ur body a different way or anything. sry if this part doesnt make sense its difficult for me to verbalize lol

it was hard for me personally bc ppl would b like ‘if u Want to b a dif gender than b one’ but like i said in those last posts, for a long time i genuinely did not know i Wanted to be a guy/was a guy, or whatever. i had no conscious longing about it or anything, that came later once i was more comfortable w accepting it. i didnt have ‘i want to be a boy/am a boy’ moments i can rly consciously remember putting into those words as a kid, cuz i just did not care about gender on that level till i was a teenager. like i cannot stress this enough, ur life and feelings abt gender n whatever do not have to match up with what u have commonly heard the trans experience is about. once u figure stuff out and r more comfortable w urself u may look back and notice things that may b like that common trans experience, but remembering this stuff or having these childhood experiences or whatever in the first place is not a ‘requirement’. like i said, no requirements for bein a dif gender

for me like.. knowing it for sure... making the Jump as it were. like its kinda embarrassing but literally the way i Found Out was i was feeling all sorts of things whenever i watched promare and i just felt this INTENSE longing whenever i saw galo that i later realized was just me rly feeling the Gender w him and being envious of that.. it had happened w other chars b4 growing up, but i had never rly noticed to that extent till now. and one night i was thinking my usual ‘i wish i looked like galo i wish i could be a guy’ maybe for the first time in like a Conscious thought, when i had never rly heard it in words b4, and i kinda stopped and was like. what? i WHAT? and then it clicked and it was like a euphoric moment for me. easily top 5 best 2 ams of my life. it is kind of a hyperspecific experience but it is also not UNCOMMON rly lol

also figuring out my sexuality was intertwined in that bc i was iding as a butch nonbinary lesbian and i had tossed the idea of ‘maybe id b more comfortable as a man’ around a bit but the idea of being a straight man didnt feel right 2 me, but luckily i kind of made the connection of wait im a man and im attracted to men at like the exact same time, it had to b both at once for me personally to figure it out and b happy about it. idk if thats smth going thru ur head at all but it was for me and was part of my Journey i guess and may help to think abt it a bit lol

and while yes its absolutely about what makes u more comfortable at the end of the day, i think it wouldve helped for me to hear ppl say that just bc the idea of being a dif gender (in this case Man) might make u feel confused and maybe even uncomfortable rn, that doesnt necessarily mean u r not one if youve been struggling w this and wondering, it might just mean u havent had that clicky moment and r ready to rly think abt it yet. i have grown much more comfortable w myself over time as ive figured this stuff out and i am still open to figuring out more abt myself and i think thats a good place to b at! just b open to stuff like this that u maybe had never thought would have a positive effect on you or make you happier.

speaking from experience i think if ur confused and maybe even miserable telling urself that womanhood is just like that and u gotta suck it up and get used to feeling uncomfortable and bad, u dont have to live like that! im not saying that ‘oh im actually a guy’ is gonna b what everyone who is struggling w thats answer is cuz obviously thats not true- and im not saying how i just described it is even how u feel- but like. as someone who thought that same thing but less consciously. womanhood does not have to be a confusing sad experience, its not an inherently miserable experience, it is possible it just isnt for you and trying smth else might make u feel better. and that can b rly hard to figure out in the moment, cuz ur Used to feeling like this and even if youve heard it can b different it might b hard to have that ‘oh theyre talking to ME, it can be different for ME not just everyone else’ moment lol

also i dont know if this is relevant to u but im saying it in general 2 anyone who needs it i guess; being a man isnt a bad thing and it doesnt make u an inherently bad person, manhood and masculinity r not inherently or naturally toxic or something. thats a harmful mindset to have for multiple reasons and a whole nother post so im not gonna b like and now a word about transphobic red flags but like, worth mentioning that that can b harmful or dangerous to trans ppl, transmascs and transfems.

my god this got rly long... if anyone else has went thru a similar thing and has anything 2 add, feel free to :0 hope i somehow got around to answering ur question w all the rambling! i am just one guy and my experience may or may not b helpful to hear about, especially bc my memory is not the best lol <3 hope it helped at all tho!