#don't like damian's characterisation either

[casscainmainly]

Curious, given DC VS Vampire's, how do you feel about Vampires apparently being OK to kill in Bruce & Cass's eyes?

Interesting question! I only read DC Vs. Vampires until issue #6 (and that was a while ago), so this is not that well informed of a take. But I'm torn about Bruce + Cass killing vampires.

On the one hand it's an Elseworlds story, and the story has no real interest in Cass or Bruce. So I'm not gonna say the comic should've devoted lots of pages to either of them, and I'm generally fine with glossing over them for the sake of the story they wanted to tell.

But to cast all that aside for a moment, it is weird how little conflict was involved in deciding to kill them. Bruce says "they're already dead" (issue #2), which is true, but they're dead in a technical sense. They're still conscious beings. It's a little odd that Bruce doesn't have any qualms about it, or anticipate any qualms from the others.

I guess one could argue that Bruce is compartmentalising, since there really is no other way to defeat them? So saying that 'they're already dead' is a way to cope with what feels like murder. I might be able to accept that, but Cass!! Why does Cass not even react to this?? Her stance against murder is much more personal, and I HIGHLY doubt she'd be okay with the act of stabbing someone to non-existence, even if the person was always 'dead'.

I just think the technicality of vampires being 'dead' wouldn't be so important to Cass. The vampires talk and act like living beings, and it wouldn't be easy for her to just believe they're not alive. I can kind of see her not stopping the others from killing (if she really told herself they were dead), but I don't think she could bring herself to do it with her own two hands - her objection to murder is not just moral, it's a legitimate traumatic response.

So yeah it doesn't make sense for either of them, but particularly for Cass. I don't necessarily think it's bad writing (since, again, they're not the focuses of the story), but exploring their feelings on killing vampires could've made for an interesting side story or fanfic.

[leefail]

This is just a mini info dump from an Arab batfamily fan because I find Damian calling his siblings Akhi... adorable (for me as a native speaker watching a writer use Arab words) and, not painful, just... itchy, it URGES me to make a pptx with 300 slides and just? Talk about Arabic?

So... أخي, Akhi, Brother.

It's not incorrect. The word is used in the right place and delivers its intended meaning. Other Arab speakers might not find a problem with it. They'd feel odd like I did but will likely go "eh" and carry on. But I'm an Arabic enthusiast, so...

Like with every language with geographically widespread users, the Arabic tongue kind of- deviated from its roots. The language has naturally branched out into so many dialects I myself can't keep track of.

Arabs from different regions can understand each other. They use the same words but for different purposes and with different pronunciations.

The original root language that holds them all (Quranic Arabic) was simplified into an easier, standard version that is used for formal speeches and as a communication bridge (seeing that you can't, say, translate something to Arabic and say it's for all Arabs if you use a certain dialect. Because an Arabic dialect is an identity at this point, tell me somebody is Syrian, and I know them already)

Now, with the fun part.

See, no Arab calls any sibling of theirs Akhi, I myself would burst laughing if mine did.

Yakhoi يَخوي (nonstandard, everyday Arabic for o, brother) , maybe, if I'm calling a stranger from the streets or an offender I'm going to give a piece of my mind.

Or, hold your breaths, my brother is crying, and the lights are out and I NEED to use the tenderest, most loving, most adoring, most revering tone I could muster so he just knows he is loved and family. Y'know? This specific situation.

And other Arabs might just say, no, I use it when, I use it when, I don't use it, etc.

The point is, nobody will mention Akhi. Because it's a Standard Arabic word, a formal word, and a word used in translated texts and stories when a foreign character we don't consider part of us call their brother. It's weird, it's devoid of emotions, and it's like watching a robot trying to be emotional, but it's a translated text. That's what translated texts use, and it's fine.

It is fine, Standard Arabic has been used for stories so much that nobody questions its influence on a character's characterisation.

I'm not saying Standard Arabic shouldn't be used for story writing, quite the opposite, in fact. I'm just saying that if Arabic is used to represent an Arab, its usage should also consider an everyday Arab experience and manners.

Now to Damian.

Akhi is robotic. Damian's personality does allow him to fall under that category. If for his well refined manners and polite, formal speech.

But even the King wouldn't call his brother Akhi.

He'd call him by his name. For my community (and most, I'm sure) siblings are called by their names, and if we look up historic Quranic (Root) Arabic speakers, they, too, call their siblings by their name. Yes, even the Sultan.

If not by actual name, then either endearing or demeaning names.

Arabs LOVE endearing names, but they're dipped in a pool of honey I don't think Damian would like to dive in.

Talia, on the other hand, would most certainly call Damian Mama. Arab parents call their kids by their own titles. It's the ultimate expression of parental love of all times, in my opinion.

(Don't make Batman call him Papa, though. Pretty sure Damian would malfunction)

-

Well, I said all that, but watching writers include Arabic words in his vocabulary is still sweet. Tt is not even a word, but it's such an Arab thing it's my favourite.

If only I could make subtitles of everyday Arab talk and show you, their speech is heavy with, excuse my English, word softeners, it's like they're talking in a TV drama and not the real world.

Watching Damian adopting it would be interesting :D

[rubydubydoo122]

What characterisation do Thomas and Martha Wayne have (in your opinion. canon is all over the place again)? And how would they interact with the Batkids?

I am a personal fan of Girlboss Martha Wayne, and Kind-soft Thomas Wayne.

The Kanes are a millitary family, so it just makes sense to me that Martha is tougher and all that. And Thomas followed the Hippocratic oath no matter what the circumstance was, so in my brain it makes sense that he was a lot softer.

Though, I don't think Canon Bruce would know Martha's tough side, because she was probably a total boy-mom, and coddled Bruce //pos, but as he grew older, she was definitely the tough love kind of mom. Pretty strict. Made him finish Med school.

idk why, but I feel like they would treat Dick more as their son, because Bruce started parenting him at a young age. Like, if Bruce said yes to Dick, but Martha said no, it was a No. If Dick really wanted something he knew Martha and Bruce would say no to, he would got to Thomas, and yeah.

With Jason, they definitely are more Grandparent-y with him-- at least Thomas is in full on Grandpa mode by the time Jason rolls up, but also, we know Jason's mommy issues. We know he would totally suck-up to Martha. So she would fill in that mother role, but more often than not, she would give Jason what he wanted If Bruce said No to something, Jason would ask Martha, and she'd say yes, and it drives both Bruce and Dick up a wall because Where was this leniancy when they were growing up? (Basically, what I'm saying Bruce is their oldest child, Dick is their middle, and Jason is their youngest-- but Jason is still more Bruce's child, just with more parenting help)

Cass is their little angel. They watch her ballets, and spoil her, and youngest daughter type beat. She's Grandpa's and Daddy's girl. And Martha would love finally having another girl in the family.

Idk if Jason dies in this world or not but either way, I think Martha and Thomas would treat Tim like the kid next door, just to put a bit of emotional distance, or they would treat him more like a grandchild. Though, I do feel like they would play off of Tim's unspoken bounderies.

Steph is the family-friend girlfriend. If yk what I mean. She's the one Martha's rooting for to eventually get with one of her children/grandchildren, and any person Tim, or Cass bring home will most likely never hold the place in Martha's heart reserved for Steph. (this also technically applies to Jason, but Jason never brings anyone home so ya)

Duke would be treated similarly to Tim, they would play off of his bounderies. Be Grandparent-y if he was accepting of that. I mean, Duke's parents are alive, just jokerized, so....

Damian gets the crazy stories from their youth Grandparents. I'm not gonna explain. He's their youngest grandchild. He gets the crazy stories that Blows Dick's mind because "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU HAVE CONNECTIONS TO THE MOB, BUBBE???!!!"

Thomas would be against getting any and all of the animals Damian asks for, but then spends more time with Ace and Titus, and Alfred (the cat) and Batcow, and GOLIATH than he does with any of his kids/grandkids. His excuse--"You all moved out! What else am I 'posed to do?"

I also feel like Thomas would play a different sport with each of the kids. Tim taught him how to skateboard, and now he's the coolest grandpa at the skatepark.

[zahri-melitor]

New(ish) Comics:

Batman/Superman: World's Finest #31: This honestly felt like a straight JLA story. Which I don't mind, but can I say that I would prefer more actual Bruce and Clark content?

Jenny Sparks #2: okay, as a Jenny Sparks story it remains terrible, as an examination of Tom King's psyche...I think it's going to read better in trade, as there's a bunch of timeline jumps happening here.

I'm very reminded of a lot of tricks he used with Mister Miracle here, and the art is again trying for that prestige look with lots of repeating panels of the same shape and characters moving through them.

Batman & Robin: Year One #1: look, I've been somewhat down on this, given I didn't think we really needed a third brand-new-Robin Dick story in three years (this, Last Halloween, and Robin & Batman), plus World's Finest.

However, it is very very very cute, as expected. Lots of ratbag tiny Dick balancing on things he shouldn't and jumping off them. The giant R on the back of Dick's belt is confusing me a little but I guess it's so he's got branding in both directions? And I'm glad there are no long pants in sight, given WF put them on him immediately.

The Warlord #68: This week we are STILL in Wizard World, sigh.

I am going to call out Dan Jurgens' incredible experimental framing here for the double page title spread: (The Warlord frequently has these double pages that mean you need to turn the floppy to admire them for titles)

The rest of the issue is just Mikola carrying on even more about being a werewolf, Jennifer separating his wolf from his human parts (so Mikola now has a wolf he has a psychic connection with he needs to learn to control), and Mariah firmly telling Mikola she's with Machiste now.

Absolute Power Updates:

Absolute Power: Super Son #1: Other people who care more about Jon have said a bunch of intelligent things about this. My major comment is that for a comic that's in the middle of an event and that contains a number of characters with very few on page appearances (I'm thinking both Nia AND Galaxy), having them appear in a dream sequence where they're acting out of character isn't the greatest choice. There are absolutely people reading this comic for whom it's one of their first interactions with the character, and so they don't have the background to work out what's in character and what's the distorted dream behaviour.

Superman #18: Clark trades a lie to Neron to get the map they want. This is...fine? It explains how Zatanna's popping up getting people from A to B.

Wonder Woman #13: Yeah I don't really like Tom King's characterisation of either Diana or Damian in this. I did like all the background character cameos in the rescue though and Plas and Ralph comparing stretching facts.

I read the Trinity backup and...yeah while I believe Damian would frame stories to show him in the best light, I disbelieve he'd frame them like that.

[spider-jaysart]

Hi!! Can I ask Damian (and maybe Dick 🙏?) for the character ask game?

Thank you, take care <3

@zephyrwrites2

Damian

Favorite thing about them: I just love his whole personality loll. He's a crazy, funny little guy that I think is really cool

Least favorite thing about them: Nothing. Only when he gets really mischaracterized by official writers who don't understand him, which happens A LOT

Favorite line: "Father, I imagined you taller."

Brotp: Damian and Jon

Otp: Damijon

Notp: Batcest, any of them that have adults paired up with him, including the canon ones Mar'i x Damian, Cassie x Damian, and Cassandra x Damian

Random headcanon: He can do ballet and it's because it's something Talia taught him while he was growing up in the league and being trained to learn many other things. He's a skilled professional at it now because of this and also bonds with his sister Cass over it and will sometimes even join her in her dancing. He also tries teaching Jon too, which can become fun for them both, and his other friends sometimes as well whenever they get curious or don't actually understand it that much like they think they do. Damian also owns a pair of green ballet slippers, but usually keeps them put away in his closet to keep them safe and clean and only takes them out when he really does want to use them.

Unpopular opinion: Okay sooo, a lot of people believe that Talia's character just gets only more ruined because of Damian's existence or whatever, but I don't believe that at all. Damian may be her son and is big part of her life because of it, but his character itself has nothing to do with hers like that at all when it comes to hateful writers choosing to write her horribly and just as another evil, lunatic villain and whatever else. Some people even say that he stole her story, but he did grow up with her during those 10 years of his, so of course he's gonna have the same life she dealt with and is also gonna have to get through certain issues from it now too because of it. But the point is that if anyone's gonna get blamed for Talia's usual trash characterisation, it should be the writers who hate her, NOT Damian who has many writers of his own who don't even treat him that well or like him that much at all either just like with Talia. Trying to pick on him is never going to fix anything about her. If Talia's ever gonna get anything better that she deserves in comics and other things, it needs to be done by writers who actually have care about her character and don't have anything weird against her that just only causes bad intentions of messing her up and then THAT'S what will finally start doing justice for her. And this not meant as an argument towards anyone or whatever btw, this is just me stating my opinion and beliefs about the whole thing

Song I associate with them: Self love by Metro Boomin & Coi Leray (Mostly because even though Damian may always put on a very confident act and always seems so prideful of himself a lot of the times, he actually has a lot of insecurities underneath all of that and doesn't actually always think so great of himself as a person)

Favorite picture of them: Definitely this very beautiful panel of him ofc💖

I just LOVE the way Gleb Melinkov draws him and gives him his Arab features without holding any of it back as well! He even gives him long lashes (longer than Flatline's even, which I noticed while looking at another panel from this series!), which I really love too!!

Dick

Favorite thing about them: I really always liked his leadership style, especially in the Teen Titans 2003 cartoon, which I grew up with

Least favorite thing about them: Only when he's potrayed as a dumb, clumsy guy in some canon stories just to lift up other characters and put them in a bigger spotlight instead. It makes no sense because he's a professional acrobat and always has been that way since he was a little kid, so how could he ever be so trippy all over the place as if there are invisible banana peels getting in the way everytime?! And he is very smart, especially with all of the important experience he has from his many years of hero work, so he's not dumb either and if he was, he wouldn't have made it so far with this kind of life because of it or ever get much done like he did because he has to overly depend on others knowledge

Favorite line: "Titans Go!"

Brotp: Dick and Starfire, Beast boy, Raven, Cyborg (I know he's friends with many others too, but this is the group I grew up with and am more attached to, so they're my fave to see together)

Otp: Dickkory because they bring the best out in eachother and have so much love for one another too

Notp: DickBabs because I just don't think they really fit that well together at all and most times Barbara just makes Dick feel bad in a lot of ways with how she usually treats him in a romantic relationship, and that's not a healthy thing to deal with at all. And then there's also Batcest and Slade x Dick (which I don't even get at all because Slade is just such a horrible, gross and very toxic guy)

Random headcanon: Years ago, back when he would used to have long hair still, he one time had it tied up in a ponytail and then a villain chopped it off in half while fighting him. Dick was pissed and really kicked their butt for doing that

Unpopular opinion: People always think of Dick as the positive, sunshine guy and then there are the ones who get very mad about it and say that he's actually the angry, tough guy because him being super friendly and happy is just too "ooc". I don't listen to any of that stuff, because I believe that he's actually both. He IS a friendly guy with a warm, charming, humorous attitude that easily attracts others, and is very much an inspiration to many because of his positive, sunshine vibes as a great, hardworking hero, but none of it makes him dumb, weak or gullible, because he IS also the type who can become very serious and gets mad when he needs to be, also doesn't actually take bull from anyone, can be chaotic and crazy, works a LOT, is independent, does have a lot of intelligence and especially experience that should never be forgotten about just because he's nice, and also definitely has the determined mind to take care of things and get them done even though others will sometimes try to tell him what to do, but he doesn't actually listen because he's not the type to easily be controlled that way like a puppy would be and if he believes it's something that needs the attention and it's what should be done and no one else is doing it, then he will do it

Song I associate with them: Annihilate by Metro Bommin, Swae Lee, Lil Wayne & Offset (because it's about being fearless, embracing self strength and individuality, and becoming a much more independent person, and I think that totally fits Dick because he's not the type to fear much and hates being stuck under Batman's shadow and having independence is something that always had an important role in how Dick's life goes)

Favorite picture of them: Well, I just found this pic of him, which was done by Travis Moore

It's very nice and really shows the struggle he goes through as a hero a lot of the times. Also, I really always liked the way he draws Dick, because he doesn't just look like everyone else and isn't sharing same face syndrome with his brothers and Bruce either, it's just a look that's unique to only him and it fits him very well. It's the exact way I always imagine him looking like whenever I envision him in my mind, even the hairstyle that's given to him by this artist too!!!

Thank you for sending this ask, I enjoyed answering it! And you take very good care too!! :)

[dyslexicandakeyboard]

I kinda wanna give some thoughts into Talia stans and their apologism and some trends and ideas that are common. (Yes, I'm treating this with more seriousness than it needs. Oh well.) Don't read if you like Talia.

I can split it into like three distinct categories: Anti-Bruce/Pro-Talia, New Earth Revision, Ghul Supremacy.

Anti-Bruce and Pro Talia split

This is a very common type of Talia apologism. It states that Talia actually is good while Bruce, even if he does love her, pushes her to do the things she does/doesn't understand her and demonises her. These people may still ship Brutalia.

Example:

These people will, even if they deny it, dislike Bruce as a character and will subtly mischaracterise him to prop up Talia. Some common mischaracterisations are that Bruce didn't love Jason as much as Talia did and that Talia has a deeper and closer bond/understanding of Damian.

The point of the miss characterisation is to discredit Bruce as a character as to make Talia seem better in comparison. It also leads to Talia being blamless as it's not "really her fault".

When they usually defend Talia from the rape accusations, they go down two paths: Bruce lied or Talia wouldn't do that.

The first idea posits that Bruce either didn't love Talia enough (the he lied argument). The latter posits that Talia has such a deep love of Bruce that she would never think of hurting him (false).

New Earth Revision

A second type of Talia aplogism asserts that only New Earth stories (between the 70's and 80's) showcase the true Talia. While these people may talk about later publications, they will fall back to New Earth stories to defend her from criticism whether or not it was in good-faith.

Example:

While they do refer back to New Earth, they also forget that during these publications she was still portrayed as mortally gray/dubious. While it is true Talia wasn't as villainous as post Death of the Maidens, she still wasn't a good guy.

Many of these people run into the problem of disregarding Talia's full characterisation during this time period. While it's ok to prefer portraying a character a certain way, when it comes at the expense of showing a character's complexities that's when theres a problem.

Many of these people also don't understand that character assassinations/changes are normal and they treat Talia's character progression as unique. Batman, Deathstroke, Deadshot have all changed since their first introduction. The change can be malicious or a natural progression. By constantly harkening back to the "good ol'days" people ignore that DC hasn't been static towards any character.

Ghul Supremacy

This type of apologia doesn't just include Talia, it can all the Al Ghul family. These people believe that DC is holding back on the Al Ghul family, mainly Talia and Damian, and that if given proper direction, they can "return" to the days when the Al Ghul's were written well.

Example:

These people disregard the agency of Talia and at times Damian in any situation where they are portrayed as bad. They will lessen the impact that the LoA have in order to minmise Talia's actions and her culpability within the LoA.

This is a less common type of Talia apologism.

[preciouslittletoonette]

I got into the ship like around it's prime back in 2018-2020 but kinda fell out once the salt got too much for me and I dropped it (MLB fic writers should tag their salt fics god damn)

(The Adrien salt is the WORST. He's either fucking spineless to the point of parody or an absolute MONSTER)

I've been a fan of Batman and MLB separately before the ships. Most of my knowledge of Damian comes from the DCAU movies and the bits of canon that I learn from Batfamily fics/tumblr posts.

God, reading old fics I like from back then is painful because I'm just like "No flipping way would Damian do this". "That's not Damian 😭". But I get through it. For inspiration.

Damian and Adrien's characterisation in a good chunk of them leaves a lot to be desired. I don't particularly care for the rest of Mari's class but damn, Adrien's characterisation HURTS my soul.

I do plan to get back into it though. I like crossovers and the Danny Phantom fandom has some really good DC crossovers, I think. I think Maribat could benefit from what's going on there.

Got any fic recs? Particularly with a more in-character Damian?

look… im not saying i got into the batman fandom through damian x marinette fanfic but it may have happened.

now that i actually understand batman and all (most) his robins i gotta say these are some of the most ooc fics out there.

but also i was a little too young to be on wattpad and had no idea there were multiple robins.

also years later when i was way into dc stuff i went to ao3 to read some and i gotta say if you need any fic recommendations (that are very out of character, but pretty well written) all you gotta do is ask.

also why is mari’s class always the most terrible human beings in the world? i mean most maribat fics were written before season 4 but still.

also also they never (in my experience) bring up any of his trauma and make all of hers 10x worse, like i get she’s been through it but he’d probably been through worse by the age of 10 and they never bring it up.

most of these fics are also written by 13 (most likely younger) year olds in the mlb fandom who wanted a strong man to take her away from her struggles (self-insert) and figure “hey! why not damian wayne? she can fix him🥺” without truly understanding his character

im sorry, i have as much beef with this ship as i do the show and comics

i could talk about it for a concerning amount of time

[brutaliakent]

// Not Tim Drake friendly

Like idk how to start this but I'll just profess by saying that majority of what I talk about is about his fanon characterisation and if you get offended then in the nicest way possible idgaf

Like why is Tim so fucking infantalized in fanon like some of his fans so obsessed with making him oppressed and a victim when he's not. Its like him in comics canon and him potrayed by fandom by 90% of fics I've read are two totally different person.

He's like a mediocre person in comics at best, I dont like him but I dont mind him either. Also he is written as a misogynist and his treatment of his gfs is abominable but I let it slide cuz maybe it was the writers fault idk

But the way fans potray him to be this holier than thou- never doing anything wrong and smartest robin (cue eyeroll) is wild and wholey inaccurate cuz like he's not. Canonically they're all similar iq and they're all trained by a detective so they're quite good at it, Dick was a mathelete and Jason had solid GPA of 94.8 and Tim dropped out of school to search for Bruce. He is tech savvy and good at computers but he's not the only one from the batfamily to be that is he, I'd say Barbara is the best at that but don't forget Dick used to be a hacker too like I've seen some of yall treat him as this one dimensional sunshine person who has eldest daughter syndrome but like he also has temper and he's clever and sharp and if I'm not wrong he even as degree in Business in main dc universe but that's besides the point

Also headcanoning him as asian feels weird and very playing into stereotype of asians being this super smart people (when there's no proof he's anything but white in canon)

Fanon also for some strange reasons hold on to Jason and Damian trying to kill him and saying how much it would have caused him trauma while completely removing him from the scene except for that scenario. Let me explain for example Damian trying to kill him where they forget the instigator of some are Tim too like he was legit 17 yr old beefing with 10 yr old bffr, did we also collectively ignore him putting the same 10 yr old on a hitlist like... yall act like this was a buffet and you can pick and choose but the thing is that you can pick and choose what to accept from canon but if you're picking Tim being attacked by Dami then maybe mention what he did too instead of victimizing him

Just kinda throwing it in here cuz we're talking about it, Dick didnt fire Tim from Robin because of bad faith, I'm pretty sure it was Alfred who gave Damian the Robin suit first but Dick didnt want Tim to be Robin because Dick saw Tim as an equal rather than a sidekick.

Also the big deal of Jason's attack on Titans Tower irks me a little but like pls remember that Jason made a last minute decision to go there and just beat the shit out of Tim and that's it and it wasnt nice of him to do that but I support his wrongs too

Since we're talking about Titans Tower fics anyways I also find it incredibly peculiar that writers (fanfic) potray him much younger than he was like Tim was 17 during UTRH and around 19 during Teen Titans #29

(Also pretty sure like 99.9% sure that Jason calling Tim 'Replacement' also came from fanon and it was from j*yt*m shippers so like 😵‍💫,, although Jason did call him 'Pretender' in Batman Hush a few times)

(Also highjacking this to talk about Pit madness cuz for some reason there are too many fics about it so like please remember that pit madness and the extent of it is just a fanon thing there is no proof of it happening for more than 5 mintues in canon and Jason was not the only one besides Ra's to use it but Cassandra has also been in the pit... So like yeah Jason did some fucked up shit post resurrection and he did it willingly no supernatural green pool was involved and its ok ❤️, like let him be his own person)

That went majorly off tangent,,, anyways also Tim was never abused physically or otherwise by his parents, they neglected him and child abandonment too for sure (ALSOOOO He spent more thanhalf of his school life in boarding school so it probably won't count as child abandonment but I dont know if its canon to main universe so I'm just putting it out there)

Adding to that is a fanfic issue that is around the potrayal of him in fics where Jason didnt die or wouldn't die and Tim joined the family early, most of those are pretty harmless and wholesome and this is not the critique of those writers so don't take personally but idk how it got so polarising and popular that Tim was a tiny kid and when he and Jason met younger (most fics I've read were from 3rd pov or Jason's pov) and in most of them it is stated that Tim is smaller for his age and Jason mistakes him for a younger age which just doesnt make sense. Like it would be one thing for someone else like Dick or Bruce to make that assumption and entirely different for Jason cuz CANONICALLY Jason was shorter at 15 than Tim was at 13 and it makes sense cuz Jason was malnourished which resulted in stunted growth rate, so like you're telling me that Jason at 15 saw 13 year old Tim and assumed he was 9 like it just doesnt make sense to me

And look this may be seen as nitpicks (and it probably is) but if it was in smaller quantity it could be ignorable but its everywhere and my patience is not endless and I'm fucking tired of him.

Also just to throw that in that all the bulleted points while in themselves alone may seem annoying but harmless, arent all of them together as fanon perception of him just infantalising him overall like its not they're true or anything...

Like lets be real Tim was just a blatant robin self insert, he was 13 when he went to a grieving father whos son was recently murdered and basically blackmailed him into making him robin cuz he thought "Batman needs a Robin" like dude you're 13... also can you imagine how Bruce must have felt in situation like but I dont think blaming Tim for this is right cuz he was a child and he didn't know better

Glorifying a white, rich (because yes he was rich enough to be neighbours with Wayne) character and demeaning and villanising a person of color and a dead poor person (cant keep track of how many times there's implied or outright said that Jason's death is his fault and how Tim's much smarter than Jason and better than him despite having no street smarts on him and being a trust fund baby)

Howevere, it'll be incredibly in poor taste to say that those weren't rooted in racism and classism [because they were] and its not Tim's fault his writers were disgusting but it is furthered and accepted and preached in fanon so like that's no excuse imo

Also if we include him with Robins he is not that special like he dont stick out ... and he terribly lacks any creativity and imagination like he took the mantle of robin and then red robin which like he didnt think through.

And like I'm not dismissing his trauma from attempts on his death but he was robin for 3-4 years before Jason tried to kill him I'm plenty sure he's used to his life being in danger comes with job description and if he didnt want that.. well nobody asked him he served himself on silver platter to be traumatised so yeah

So yeah fanon tim is my number one enemy and idc about him in canon and if you disagree with this please make your own post

This was a long vent of a short(lmao) list of just things that bother me

[excessively-english-jd]

Hi. What comics would you suggest I start with to get into the BatFam? I've been following you for years and seeing you reblog BatFam stuff has got me interested but there's so much content, I wouldn't know where to being. I've only seen the Christian Bale batman and also Lego batman and teen titans, and Robin is my favourite in TT.

I'm going to be honest with you - I don't tend to follow many full Batman or Batfam comics. The characterisation, art, and plots vary massively even within single runs and I don't always like them. I tend to watch more of the animated media (DC's animated movies and series tend to be REALLY good) but those are usually very Batman focused with not as much of the rest of the fam. When I do read comics, it's usually single issues or plot threads within a run, rather than a full series.

I got into the Batfam mainly through the DCAMU Batman films - Son of Batman, Batman vs Robin, Bad Blood, and Hush. The Titans films in the DCAMU, Justice League vs Teen Titans and Judas Contract, also feature Dick and Damian pretty heavily, and they appear frequently in the larger Justice League focused films too. Dick and Damian are the only Robins to appear in this universe, but it was my stepping stone.

However, The Wayne Family Adventures is a REALLY good comic on WebToons, which is much closer to the fan content that I tend to enjoy for BatFam. You can either read it there for free, or pay to get comics a few weeks earlier. If you like the kind of things I reblog here, WFA is definitely the place to start. I cannot recommend it enough.

After that my recommendation would be the Supersons comics, if you're a fan of Damian like me. They're fun, they're cute, it's sadly a pretty short run but it's really nice.

Grayson (2014) is meant to be a really good Dick Grayson comic run, I've got a few volumes but haven't actually read them yet. But a lot of people recommend it. I've also heard good things about the most recent Nightwing run.

Tim's first solo Robin run is meant to be pretty decent, if you don't mind older style comics. From my understanding TT's Robin tends to be closer to Tim than Dick in-comics, so possibly checking out his stuff is a good idea. Young Justice comics are good for Tim as well, there's at least one run I know is meant to be good but I can't remember which it is now.

Red Hood And The Outlaws is really good for Jason content, unfortunately it's discontinued. Under The Hood is also a good run for Jason, it's where they brought him back.

Outside of comics: watch Young Justice, it's really good and has a bunch of Batfam in it, including ALL FOUR ROBINS PLUS OTHERS!! Admittedly they don't all get as much screentime, but they exist!! Batman The Animated Series, including its movies, is some of the BEST Batman content you can get. Dick is there, and in later seasons you get Tim-who's-actually-basically-Jason. There are also comic tie ins (Batman: The Adventures Continue). Similarly, Justice League Animated has some good Batman content, though little to no fam appearances. Check out pretty much any DC animated Batman film, and you'll get some interesting stuff: particularly Batman: Under The Red Hood (and its interactive version, Death In The Family) and Gotham by Gaslight. Justice League Dark has the funniest Batman content you will ever see.

And, if you want more proper comic recs, you might want to find other Batfam blogs and see if any of them actually read more comics 😅😅 I can give you fic recs, though, if you ever want those, lmao.

[trainsinanime]

Is maribat au good?

I've always wanted to read some fics about it but never got too. Now I don't know if I should read a Maribat au... I don't even know where to start. can you reccomend some fics?

Oh, sorry, I'm afraid you're asking the completely wrong person here. Because while I do have a lot of strong opinions about Maribat, I have to admit that I, uh… haven't actually read any Maribat stories. When I see a story is a Maribat one, I just automatically skip it every single time. My opinions about it mainly come from the summaries I've read.

If you're not familiar: When the first episode of season 3, Chameleon, came out, a lot of fans decided that all of Marinette's friends were terrible people, and invented stories where the friends were even more terrible to her, and Marinette got back at them by being super-duper extra petty to them (which was portrayed as good and cathartic), and then leaving the school. It's a fascinating thing that I think needs to be discussed in a two-hour youtube essay by someone like Jenny Nicholson or Sarah Z one of these days.

Anyway, one idea that came up in the fandom was that a place Marinette could move to, after being super petty to her old class, was Gotham, where she could then fall in love with Damian Wayne, who is I think currently the youngest Robin or something?

People liked that idea and wrote a lot of stories for that, many of which apparently get Damian's characterisation very wrong according to people who like Batman.

Anyway, the thing is still around, less intense than it used to be, and its fans keep arguing that there are stories in there that are actually good and are not actually petty and vindictive. Who knows, maybe they're right. I've seen enough of the start of the thing to be turned off by the very idea, but maybe I'm doing it a disservice. Then again, I see a lot of people who claim their stories aren't petty and vindictive, but then they kind of are anyway, or are at least copying the same initial ideas apparently without thinking ("the class is/individual people in the class are wrong and hurtful and need to apologise"), and I'm not particularly into that either.

Sorry for dumping that all on you anon. I guess the real answer is: If somebody has non-salt, non-vindictive, non-"we're gonna make characters apologise for things that only ever happened in the author's mind" Maribat recommendations, please drop them here. I promise I won't read them.

[redjaybathood]

You're saying "Bruce being shitty/abusive is OOC and doesn't make sense" like DC fucking cares.

However, that's one thing for DC writers who already wrote him that way, and another for those who will be writing him after that.

I am trying to put how I feel about it in words, sorry if it's a bit messy. Basically, what I mean, Bruce's characteristic as an abusive parent never feels self-aware - I mean I don't think any of his writers ever was aware that that's fucking abuse. It's always in some way justified. It's always the kid's fault. I mean, even the kids who are generally acknowledged as being his "favorite" like Dick, Tim, Cass, and of course the super-special Blood Son TM Damian - who, though, never exactly had been the favorite one, except maybe when he died.

But my point stands.

It is OOC, and it is shitty, and it indeed does not make sense, however: it's part not only of Bruce's canon characterisation now, it also directly influenced all the kids who were around him. You take that back, you have to do some big rewrite.

And I rarely, if ever, see any propagate of "Bruce is a good dad, actually" mention anything about it.

Maybe because it both happens and could never be done. Character backstory is rewritten in comics with any new series, it feels like; what canon and what is not hard to keep track for authors themselves. And it won't be done because nobody would invest their time and effort in yet another reboot but from the start. Or, like, since Dick transitioned to Nightwing. Or, maybe, since Jason died. Or a little after Tim became Robin but maybe before Steph did.

Like, at most, it all would be swept off under the rag. Never happened!

Except it did.

And that's also where the curious difference between canon writers and fandom writers comes to play. Sure, you could say that Bruce being shitty or abusive dad in fics is to prop other characters he's being abusive towards - I mean, that's what you probably meant, because that's the only time it is remotely applicable. In no instances of canon Bruce being a shit/abusive dad is intentionally framed as a prop for his kids. Him being abusive is either because he's a complicated tortured soul, or it's for their good, actually, or it's not an abuse retroactively, or it's the kid's fault.

But sure, you couldn't say the same about fics. Not all fics, but a fair share of shitty dad Bruce does treat him as a prop. Because usually it's not a story a righteous hero - it's a story about dealing with abuse, its aftermath , it's a hurt/comfort, it's maybe even revenge power fantasy in various forms, including "the best revenge is to live good". And that's, from the point of view both creators and readers, a theme worth exploring, something they could relate to, a satisfying read - whatever it is, they don't owe anyone a perfect Batman, or struggling father who does his best, or whatever it is you wish to see in canon.

And hell. If canon could ever treat Bruce as abusive, acknowledging the abuse, condemning it - not even anything new, just what already happened - and paying for it, well. I won't say it's a bad writing either. It would be fucking revolutionary. Even, I dunno, small things like, hmmm, Damian getting counseling and going to school and college instead of being a vigilante? Because why, yes, it's not normal even by DC universe standards to put kids in tights, even if Superman or Flash or whoever does it too and there's the whole Young Justice and Teen Titans. Like, something being frequent does not automatically mean it's a good thing actually.

And the difference is because they did it, they have to undo it, but not by a garbage "it never happened" shtick. Because it did, and it had an impact, both on kids storylines and how their characters are perceived by mainstream audience and other writers who will be basing their new canon works of that perception.

The damage is done, and sweeping things under the rag won't undo it.

So yes, I am very much opposed to the idea that abusive/shit dad!Bruce is OOC or shitty writing by itself; however, I have yet to see any canon writer commit to it (except Elseworlds, like the one Batman who literally drove Dick to insanity and murder).

And that's, my friends, what bad writing is.

any portrayal of Bruce as an abusive father is genuinely shitty writing and whoever writes him that way does not understand the character. it’s one thing to portray him as not being the perfect parent, because characters making mistakes and owning up to them humanizes them and gives them development and depth- but if you write some shit like him hitting his children or not caring about them just don’t fucking write Batman comics. you can not tell me that the man, who experienced trauma at losing his own parents, who’s driven by his empathy, would abuse his children, all of which have experienced the same or similar trauma as him. in what fucking world does that make sense

[fleursdecerisier1999]

No problem! And, yeah, the fanon Tim Drake is... well, I don't like it a lot either. That characterisation is full of people babying him, therefore making him this cinnamon roll, sad boy who just want to be loved. And yeah, Tim is (I think) canonically depressed, but he is also a bitch, and as you said has a lot of flaws. I could make an entire post about how canon Tim has so much problems and is more darker that his Fanon version, but, it will be in another moment lol.

Anyways! Thanks for answering so nicely as well! I was curios because althought Tim is not my favourite (being Damian my fav with Dick as a my second) I really like him as a character (when he is portrayed good), and the different dynamics he has with each member of the fam.

Hi dear! I actually have a question, I've been reading your AUs (wonderful things, btw), and I noticed a lack of one Tim Drake, I understand if you don't feel comfortable writing him, or even if you don't like him... but even in those AU where the whole fam is on them (HTTYD, JL meet batfam, and I think Scooby doo also) he is not even mentioned. I am trying not to sound rude so tell me if I am, but I am just curious about it, and I really want to know that!

Hi! Thank you for asking so nicely! I'm just not super fond of/invested in Tim Drake really? I used to accept Fanon Tim as Tim buuut

I don't think the Fanon characterization of him is super accurate to him really (and frankly some of his fanon characterization seems a bit frustrating to me) and I think his Canon characterization has flaws that should be addressed

But I also don't know of a good middle ground or interpretation right now myself, (I'm trying to find one) and so I'm never sure how to write him so I tend to just leave him out of my posts?

(I'm tagging this anti Tim Drake just in case, for the Tim fans to avoid if they want)