#doesn't even have to be byler i'll take anything

[girlishwhimsyy]

oooooh ross duffer you wanna post bts pics today so bad

[will80sbyers]

A Byler on Twitter made a fake 'mileven stan' account to shit on Bylers by spreading homophobic and sexist takes to make mileven fans appear bad. Bylers are literally the scum of this fandom and I cannot wait for you guys to finally disappear after s5 comes out and finally puts an end to your delusional insanity.

"I say a byler did a bad thing... so HERE I AM !!! A MILEVEN! AND I AM HERE TO HARASS... YOU!!!! THAT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE SITUATION! BECAUSE WE MILEVENS ARE BETTER!!! I AM HERE TO CALL YOU CRAZY BECAUSE I AM MORALLY SUPERIOR!!!! "

Shut the fuck up ❤️

A good part of your fandom has been homophobic for years and there are literally video compilations of saved tweets from people with mileven stan accounts that say homophobic and transphobic shit

now I don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you could be lying about "a byler did this", but if it was true then that person is a complete idiot too exactly like your friends when they do say homophobic shit

Plus, honey, we will not disappear after season 5 even in the case the Duffers completely fucked up the show putting your boring ass ship as endgame

there are still Zutara and Johnlock stans to this day even if the ships weren't endgame, we'll keep shipping it because in reality shipping is about liking a pairing not "winning"

you will not get rid of us, and I'll talk even more shit about your ship on sheer pettiness because dumb fucks like you always come to my blog to send this annoying stuff 🌈

[0daylighthours0]

(part 2) A Deep Dive into Milkvan and Byler's Development: If Milkvan's Destined Endgame, Why's it Written Like This???

The decision to confirm Will to be in love with MIKE is wild, and I'll tell you why.

When you add a third party to a t.v show relationship, if the first relationship isn't perfect, people gunna start rooting for the third party. Take Stancy for instance.

Throughout s2, we got the vibes that Jonathan held feelings for Nancy. This was clear. But Nancy was still with Steve. This means, in order for us not to sympathize more for Jonathan, Nancy and Steve gotta be ✧ tight ✧. I mean, their issues must be kept at a low, and at the end of the day it's gotta be clearer to us that Nancy does in fact love Steve. Welp, that wasn’t the case. Stancy's relationship ✧ struggled ✧, justifying intimate moments between Nancy and Jonathan - making us feel as if he'd be better for her after all. A smart writing choice, as Duffers intended Jancy as season 2's endgame pairing.

Now, I'd like to point out the foreshadowing of this development.

Come the wrapping up of s1, and it seemed Nancy had retreated back to Steve.

They'd clearly reconciled and - to an outsider - all would appear to be going smoothly. But us as the audience know that not to be the case.

One reason? Well, she'd just shared a suggesting moment with Jonathan.

So our minds weren't on Steve and this show of his with Nancy. Rather, we read into Nancy's slight discomfort, and wondered if perhaps she'd prefer being with Jonathan instead.

This was of course intentional. I'd like to briefly bring to attention the similarities in these moments to ones at the end of s3 - between Mike and Will, and then Mike and El.

Here a conclusion to milkvan's seasonal drama is made, them seemingly staying together, parting on good terms. Hm. And milkvan's moment is.. kinda like stancy's. They got back together because, well, El said she loves Mike. And Steve loves Nancy. And Mike loves El right? The way Nancy loved Steve- But just, coincidentally, we have byler's reconciliation too.

This came before the guy's makeup with El, because, why? This was quite the interesting decision mates. It means that whilst he spends that moment with his girlfriend, our minds are fresh off of Will. People might read into the way he's acting in contrast, just maybe, the way they did during stancy. And people did. That's a bit of a fumble on the writers' part, if you ask me. I know you're trying to let us know that Mike's now on good terms with both members, and his and El's goodbye needs to be the dramatic finishing of the season, but, man, did byler even have to make up at all here you guys? I mean this miscommunication of theirs lasts through to s4 (just like janc-). Why not sort their good terms out later or earlier on, so that we have more mindspace here to focus solely on milkvan, our main main? Or at least, why not just have Mike apologize to Will and be done with it? He could even apologize alongside Lucas, making the moment less personal. And Will could simply forgive him, give a dudely pat it out, and that's it. We wash our hands.

But nah. There's this electricity in the air. The swelling music, the prolonged looks, this doesn't.. seem like a simple make up. It's startlingly short, making us feel as if there have been things left unsaid. And that line,

".. Not possible."

It's so... implying. What do you mean? Why are you looking at eachother like that? What am I meant to get from this scene?

And it isn't a closing reconciliation either, they haven't properly ended their season's drama. I mean no one even apologized for the argument, we're just sort of left with this. Left with the hint of a story that might be further explored - their moment coming off more as anticipation for what's to come than a conclusion. Maybe just a bit like Jonathan and Nancy s1.

But so what? That does not have to mean anything romantic between them is to be told. After all, El just expressed to Mike that she loves him. This means that these sweethearts are practically fortold as endgame, right?

Alright I'll stop stalling.

Season 4.

So. Will is in love with Mike now. Huh. Well, I don't recommend this. As I said, you risk people rooting for Will beyond their hopes for Mike and El as a couple. If this is a plotline you desire, it has to be navigated with precision. So this means that milkvan must be on their A game. Struggle between them has got to be handled delicately. As we see in stancy, and as we saw in s3, just making up at the end of it all isn't good enough. You can risk this mistake once, but we must like these guys together throughout season 4, more than we sorrow for Will. Infact, Will's feelings must not be made too big of a deal. Mike and El are going to stay together, so we should feel a bit sorry for him, but not gather any hope that things will actually work out to his favour.

Like Dustin in s2. He sprouted small feelings for Max, and so did Lucas. Lumax were the endgame, so Dustin's feelings were craftly navigated and not made more important than Max and Lucas' bond. We don't really feel that Dustin is in love with Max, moreso that he likes her and has some moments of jealousy aimed at Lucas. Noone really wanted him with her more than they rooted for Lumax, though we did sympathize for him and feel bad for him regardless.

So yeah, this can easily be written out for Will too. If his story's purpose is meant for the exploration of a gay kid navigating a still homoph#bic time, then there's a lot that can be done without even having to spare much screen time between him and Mike. Focus on his fear of judgement from Jonathan moreso maybe, or have Argyle say something - it can be whatever, mention something homoph#bic, mention something not homoph#bic and give Will hope, whatever - which sets off a thought or idea for Will that prepares his arc for the season.

Back to Mike and El - so we want a 'scared to say "I love you"' subplot. That's good, that good. Fleshes out Mike, plays into El's fears. Shouldn't be too hard.

There's already a mild problem though. This plot is playing out twice at once. We have our boy Will hosting this same fear of rejection by Mike - at least that's how things have been shot. His dread is portrayed through his restraint and timidity in revealing his painting to Mike. Will's painting is basically his version of a confession - the guy too selfless, shy and afraid to express his love outright.

So playing out this storyline at the double is.. a choice. I mean, Mike telling El he loves her is a big deal for the milkvans, shouldn't this romance dominate as much screen time as possible in order to be fully pumped up without any sidetracks to other insignificant in comparison feelings? S3 was already quite clumsy, why not have Mike and El's activities soak in all viewers' engrossment without any departures? Maybe spend a bit of time demonstrating how likeable and wholesome they actually are together. Now that we have Will's affection ontop it all, what's important is that Mike and El's camera time spent matters. They can be angsty, they can withhold some misunderstandings, but they still have to be a good. couple.

Oh yeah, also, Mike should blatantly display feelings for El and El only - duh.

.

..

huh ?

huh ? ? ?

[insertsacoolname]

Byler Modern + Reincarnation Au (original concept)

(This better get noticed this time or else I'll cry 😭) (Also I don't ship Finn and Noah, just used them as a reference for how Mike and Will are gonna look)

- Pics from left side belongs to Mike and right side belongs to Will

- Will's hair are little more longer in length

- Will personality here is mixed of Max and his past self

- While Mike's personality is mixed of Lucas, Dustin and his past self

⚠️TW : Mention of De@th and su¡c¡de⚠️

This is mostly gonna be like a summary because I have so many things to add in this 🗿

-> Well before starting I wanna say that I'm really inspired by Obamitsu story (in kny) for this Au. The only difference is that they didn't die in eachother hands just like these two :(

Look how cute they are 😭🖐️💖

Anyways -

-> So this obviously takes place after season 5, they defeated Vecna but in the process Will dies but Mike survives (Damn the reddie card). Ofcourse it was devastating for Mike to see Will dying, but he continues to live because Will tells him too [Will says to Mike to care of himself and El (yes El survived) and tells him that he should marry her in future (Will says that because he didn't wanted them to fight like this forever and wanted them to live a happy life together)] and he also confesses to him but before Mike could even say anything, Will dies in his arms with a little smile on his face. Mike was also gonna confess to him but poor dude didn't got his chance (I hope this isn't sounding cringe, but I can already imagine a scene like this in my head). Fast forward Mike and El gets married as for Will (I don't ship them but for sake of this au let's keep it like that). Both of them weren't in love with each other now, they lost their interest in each other a long time ago but still were taking care of each other as they used too and still cared for each other, El knew that Mike liked Will (He [Mike] told her). Later on El dies because of the injuries that she got during the war (Even tho it's been so many years since that war, but people who got injured because of Vecna still faced some consequence). After the death of El, Mike stopped talking to people and became very quiet, he ignored his friends and family. He continued to visit Byers house to meet Joyce and Hopper but other than that he didn't spoke a word to anyone. Later some years his mental health got worse (consequence of war with Vecna) and he k¡lled himself (su¡c¡de)

-> Fast forwarding to now time, Mike, Will and El (and some of their other friends ) gets reincarnated in today's morden world. Although rest of them don't remember their past life (obviously), but Mike kinda does.

Mike sometmes get dream of his past life, the time he spent with his friends and the time he spent with Will. Although he doesn't fully remember everything, he just feels Deja Vu around them.

Well thats it for now, I will post more about this Au in future :)

(Let me know ur thoughts about this)

Peace ✌️🦅

[parkitaco]

i need 33,36 and 12 with byler for mental health reasons

It's Christmas Eve, and there's a knock at the door.

Will is sprawled out on the couch, half-watching some Christmas special with Hopper sitting beside him smoking a cigarette that he occasionally holds out for Will to take a drag off of. Joyce is in the kitchen, bustling about making dinner, and every time she catches Hopper handing Will the cigarette she sends them both a disapproving look that Hopper returns with a shrug.

Will's in a bit of a mood, anyway, and he can tell Hopper notices, because he's being far less gruff than usual, sitting quietly with his cigarette and occasionally shooting Will indecipherable looks. And- okay, Will knows he's being a little ridiculous, but he's down, okay? It's his first time back home since starting college this fall, and the main appeal of Christmas had been getting to see one Mike Wheeler, who's at a different college a whole three states away, who he hasn't seen in almost three weeks now, who he misses something fierce even though, technically speaking, the two of them have survived much worse.

But then Mike had had too much work to do, too many things to study for, too many shifts to take at the diner he works at part-time, too many arguments with his parents to justify a trip home to see them, and he'd called Will with a heavy tone and informed him that I just don't think I can go back to Hawkins right now, I'm sorry, I love you, I'll see you soon, okay?

And now someone's knocking at the door, and Will can't bring himself to care who it is because he knows that it's not his boyfriend, and he doesn't much care about anything else right now.

Will glances half-heartedly toward the door, too comfortable in his petty melancholy to really want to get up. "Mom, someone's at the door," he calls, even though he's closer to the door, and he hopes that the pity his parents are feeling for him will extend far enough to excuse his vaguely shitty behavior. It's probably Jonathan or El, who are both scheduled to get in later tonight, but maybe one of their flights got moved up or something, and Will does want to see his siblings, he does, but he also really, really doesn't want to get up from the couch and they both have keys anyway, so surely they can fend for themselves.

Joyce appears from around the corner, drying her hands on a towel and glancing up at the clock on the wall. "Oh," she says, a small smile spreading over her face. "Could you get that, sweetie?"

Will frowns at her. "Do I have to?"

"We're watching something," Hopper agrees, and Joyce shoots him a look.

"Will, honey, I think it's for you," Joyce says, widening her eyes at Hopper meaningfully, and he stares back at her, unperturbed. "Can you get it, please?"

There's another knock, and Will squints at his mother as he lifts himself off of the couch and reluctantly heads for the door. The rest of the Party doesn't show up till tomorrow, he knows, all at staggered times and with various plans for the day. He probably won't get to see them for a couple days, what with family traditions and everything. Clearly, his mother is up to something.

Will opens the door, and immediately does a double take.

Mike Wheeler is standing on his doorstep, in all his six-foot-one, long-haired and dark-eyed glory, and he lifts his hand in a small wave, smiling evenly. "Hi."

Will whips around to face his mother, one hand gripping the doorjamb for dear life as he glances frantically back and forth between her and the boy on his doorstep. "Wh- how did you- what the fuck?" he splutters, cheeks reddening as he drinks in the sight of his boyfriend, here and present and all wrapped up in a winter coat that's three sizes too big for him, looking, quite frankly, like a complete idiot, but- he's Will's idiot.

Joyce grins, entirely pleased with herself. "Mike was upset about missing Christmas," she says, leaning one hip against the arm of the sofa like this is the most normal thing in the world, "So I offered him a place to stay for a couple days."

Will opens his mouth, then closes it again, turning back to Mike, who's grinning widely. "It was super last-minute," he tells Will quietly, shifting a little closer, "otherwise I would have told you, but I was just sitting in my dorm yesterday and it hit me all at once that I couldn't miss Christmas with you, especially not over something as stupid as my parents and school and shit, so I called your mom in a panic and we got me on a plane here and- oof," he cuts himself off as Will rockets into his arms, shoving his face into the crook of Mike's neck and throwing his arms around his waist. Mike laughs quietly, catching him easily and pulling him close, one hand in Will's hair as he kisses the side of his head.

"Hi," Will murmurs into his neck, voice muffled by the down of Mike's jacket, squeezing him as tightly as he can without hurting him. "Hi, I love you, I missed you, I'm so glad you're here."

Faintly, he makes out the sounds of Joyce saying something to Hopper, and the soft rustling of Hopper standing up from the couch and, presumably, following Joyce into the kitchen to give them some privacy.

"I missed you too," Mike whispers in Will's ear, and the feeling of his warm breath against his face, tactile and real and not static with interference from the phone, is enough for a few tears to leak out the corners of Will's eyes. "I missed you so much, you have no idea."

A giddy laugh bubbles up from Will's ribcage, and he bends his knees, arms shifting to lift Mike into the air, Mike's arms winding their way around Will's neck as he laughs good-naturedly. Will hugs him tighter, Mike's legs dangling off the ground, and spins him around once, enjoying the solid weight of Mike in his arms. "Will!" Mike yelps, clinging to him, "Will, baby, put me down, you're going to hurt yourself!"

This is probably true, and the magic of Mike's visit would be significantly marred by a trip to the hospital, so Will dutifully loosens his grip on Mike, letting him slide back down until his feet touch the ground. Mike smiles down at him, arms still around Will's neck, and Will reaches up to brush a strand of hair out of Mike's eyes, gentle and soft and relishing the warmth of Mike's face against his fingertips. He tucks the hair behind Mike's ear, leaving his hand resting gently on the side of his face, and swipes a thumb over Mike's jaw, smiling back at him.

"I love you," Mike says, voice honey-sweet and giddy with happiness, and Will wastes no time in pushing forward, pressing his lips against Mike's and feeling his smile against his mouth. Mike tugs him closer, still smiling like an idiot into the kiss, but Will can't blame him when he giggles softly against Mike's lips, overwhelmed and still not entirely sure he's not dreaming. But then Mike is nudging closer, opening his mouth and kissing Will open and slow, and Will sinks into the reality of him, sure it's not a dream because there's no way his brain could have predicted how good this would feel, having Mike in his arms again, his lips slotted against Will's.

Will pulls back a little dazedly, hands still on Mike's face, and he looks so beautiful, lips kissed red and cheeks pink from the cold, and Will's forgotten all about his melancholy when he has this work of art smiling down at him.

"You've been smoking," Mike observes, not particularly sounding like he minds, and Will rolls his eyes even as a smile tugs at his lips.

"Shut up, I was sad," he complains, shoving his face back into Mike's neck.

"Was I worth the surprise?" Mike asks softly, kissing the top of his head and winding a hand through Will's hair.

Will huffs a laugh, incredulous that he even has to ask, and he pulls back to stare up at Mike. "Yes," he says, grinning like an idiot, "Yes, you're worth- everything, I can't believe- yes."

"Good," Mike says, kissing the tip of Will's nose once, twice. "Do you think I could come inside now? It's fucking freezing outside."

"Oh, right," Will laughs, stepping away just enough to allow Mike into the house and watching with a warm feeling blooming in his chest as Mike shrugs off his jacket. Mike Wheeler is in his house. Mike Wheeler is here, beside Will, and it's Christmas, and Will is in love.

He can't help himself when he strides over to Mike and wraps himself around him, arms tight around his waist and at a slightly awkward angle, pressing his cheek into the fabric of Mike's sweater. Mike laughs, hands grasping at Will's arms where they're thrown around his waist, and Will takes a shaky breath, happiness seeping through every inch of his body.

"Merry Christmas, baby," he whispers, tilting his head until his chin rests on Mike's shoulder, peering lovingly up at him through his lashes, and Mike meets his eyes with a sappy smile, like he's thinking all the same things that Will is.

"Merry Christmas, Will."

[robynrocksforbrains]

AU concept:

If anyone wants to use this as inspiration for drawing, a comic, a fic, literally anything, feel free to. Take creative liberty wherever you want, but tag me so I can see it because I'm insane about it :)

It's a platonic madwheeler speedster AU. Set in the DCU.

Lots of madwheeler siblingism, Mike is an idiot and Max is an instigator. They get their powers because Mike is doing something stupid involving electricity and Max is enabling him at the time of the particle accelerator explosion. Because they're at the same place at the same time, they end up being affected in the same way, and therefore both become speedsters.

So here's the general stuff:

Max is Zoomer (kind of a given) (not to be confused with Zoom), her suit is red with green accents, her lightning is white

Mike is Zipper (Zip for short) (credit to @piper-yipee for the name), his suit is blue with yellow accents, his lightning is green (yes this is entirely for byler reasons)

(I know that lightning colors have different causes in DC canon, but for this AU that is not the case, I'm just choosing lighting colors based on what I want. Cope.)

Zipper and Zoomer I mean COME ON IT'S PERFECT

Established lumax

Slow burn byler because I said so

Once they discover they have powers they go a little crazy about it and Mike immediately wants to be a superhero while Max tries to stay levelheaded about it and reason with Mike that he doesn't know the first thing about being a superhero. Mike ultimately concedes that he doesn't know the first thing about being a superhero and he shouldn't just jump into something like that.

Something happens, whether it be an accident or a crime doesn't really matter, but Mike and Max are there when it happens. Even though they decided that neither of them were gonna jump into anything, they can't stand by and let people get hurt when they know they could do something about it. So they save the day.

After that they decide that they wanna use their powers for good but that they need to be smart about it

They decide to tell Dustin about their powers. He's a super smart science guy and he makes suits for them and has the time of his life learning about the speed force

They decide that they are NOT telling Lucas and Will (they're gonna find out eventually though)

Other stuff:

Will, El, and Lucas are also metahumans, but their powers manifest at a later date.

Will: dimensional awareness (like Vibe), erebokinesis (the power to generate or manipulate darkness or shadows), heliokinesis (the power to bend and control sunlight)

El: I don't have a specific preference, but anything similar to her canon powers would be interesting

Lucas: I also don't have a specific preference for him, I just think there's not nearly enough superhero Lucas content and I need more. Maybe vibrokinesis?

Willel siblings obviously

Once Will learns about Mike and Max's superhero activities, he insists on helping Dustin design better suits for them, because although they may be functional they could look so much better and Will is an artist so

The superhero squad is called The Party because obviously

That's all I got for now, I think, I'll probably edit this post as I think of more stuff. HOWEVER! I do know how Will learns about his powers and Mike being Zipper. This is heavily based on how Cisco discovers his powers in CWs The Flash.

So, Will ends up being in the wrong place at the wrong time while Zip and Zoomer are fighting some villain. Mike isn't fast enough and he isn't able to save him, Will dies. (They're very much in love at this point but neither of them has confessed). Mike obviously loses it. He's holding Will in his arms and the only thing running through his mind is some theory Dustin had about the speed force and time travel. He doesn't even think about it he just starts running. He ends up two days in the past and manages to prevent Will's death. He intends to take this to his grave, no one knows. Not even Max or Dustin. But then Will starts having flashbacks to the timeline where he died. He keeps reliving his death, and every time he sees Zipper, mask off, so really he sees Mike, begging him to just hold on. And maybe even telling Will that he loves him. And Will feels like he's going crazy. One day he can't take it anymore and he tells Mike about it, and Mike ends up coming clean about everything because he's tired of lying to Will. Will doesn't really know how to feel about it, he tells Mike he needs some space to process it. He's not mad at Mike, he's just really confused and overwhelmed and he feels slightly betrayed because Mike kept his whole superhero life from him for as long as he did. Obviously they work things out in the end and Will joins the superhero squad.

That's all for now folks

[cleradinel]

I'm really live and let live with hcs and theories, but i think i just really don't get the bi Mike thing. Because i keep seeing people say Mike is bi but when i actually see the posts explaining why (which is Really rare too, it's usually just treated as 'clearly obvious' which is also interesting) there's always scenes getting ignored. Things like Mike kissing El and obviously caring about her immensely get mentioned, but then the sibling and cousin coding (even right before their first kiss) just gets ignored. "Boys only" isn't worth analyzing, it's just wording (but Will saying "a day free of girls" is still obviously gay coding). Mike not kissing El back in s3 gets acknowledged but him pulling her hands off his face at the beginning of the season doesn't get mentioned. Everyone having posters of people they're attracted to (Nancy, Steve, etc) on their walls is just accepted as fact but Mike only having posters of buff guys still means he's into girls. And so on

What's even wilder is that I've seen multiple people claim they Don't think Mike was ever into El but still think he's bi which is just. ?. I don't get it. Because outside of El he hasn't shown anything you could even Pretend is attraction to girls. Canonically he's had little contact with girls because they "think he's gross", didn't care for Max when she showed up, didn't care for the dragonslayer princess or Phoebe Cates, doesn't have any female fictional characters he admires, AND didn't get Argyle falling for pretty girl Eden. El is really the only thing you could sort of try to justify any attraction to girls in any capacity (and even that's rocks in canon)

Bi Mike just confuses me because all posts arguing in favour of it always ignore certain scenes. And yeah obviously, they have to it's because you just can't explain them from the bi angle. It's just odd to me that so many people argue it's equally as canon supported as gay Mike when there's multiple instances that have to be overlooked for the theory to hold up. Not trying to sound rude, hcs are obviously cool, i just don't get why bi Mike is argued to be canon so much when the show contradicts it multiple times (coming from a bi person btw)

i'm a live and let live too ! i'm no headcanon police and i am nobody to tell you what to do or how to think. i like pointing stuff out i find interesting and if those things i'm pointing out (and many others have pointed out) leads me to believe wholeheartedly mike is gay, i'll allow myself to be passionate about that. (get heated ? sometimes i admit) (because i think it's an important thing to take into account when discussing him/elmike/byler/the narrative/where we've been and where we're going yadda yadda yadda)

i've seen bi mike posts that are more on the analysis side, but then those posts go on to say something like mike wasn't regretting telling will to dance with the girl (i don't think mike was like "no come back i am so consciously in love with you" at all, but more so "well this has me feeling In Ways i don't want to describe or think about) at the snowball, or that the ending of s3 is just solely about him being sad to see el and will go (i agree he is obviously sad about that, but literally what were those two back to back byler and elmike scenes about, considering their nature and content, if not mike getting confirmation he wants to date his dude bestie ? which i really, really think is the conclusion to his "i have an idea, boys only" moment) so again, even if we're both analyzing, we're truly not analyzing in the same way. i can't take those things as proof coming from a show that keeps hammering it over our heads that we have to think deeper and pull back the curtain. they don't want you to think of these scenes as nothing more than they appear on surface level. these are ga kinds of interpretations of these scenes. most of them saw a mike sad to be bidding his friends goodbye, you on the other hand, if you're trying to decipher what mike is thinking and what he's about, should probably be seeing something else.

everything you listed applying to both mike and will and definitely not to lucas and dustin (these two especially as way closer in age than like. steve and have way more scenes together) is something you should notice but alas- pretty girl eden was there to mock love at first though. even jonathan doesn't care for that haha i'll have to disagree on that being gay mike proof. if anything it's mike is a dirty little liar monologuing a lie proof.

i'll leave you with this : headcanons are cool, i don't care what you do with them. i hope you're having fun (i truly am) but *i* disagree it's as supported by canon as the gay hc. i, as in me myself and i, and if you disagree with me that is completely fine. you should be and feel free to do whatever you want with mike when you spin him around in your head for fun trying to understand who he is. but i will never not be confused by bi mike, as i think it is quite obvious he is gay.

[coniangray]

Intro :)

Well hello there, I've been debating downloading tumblr for years now but here I am iggg (yes I came from Twitter).

A few facts about me:

Im 19:)

I like purple

I like spiderman

Before starting to post anything I just wanna let u know I DONT support nor respect Noah, Brett and Ross atp given how they revealed their disgusting views about this genocide happening in Palestine.

To make it clear, I support Palestine and for that matter I'm glad that the actors I'm looking up to have spoken up about it.

Here I'll be posting mainly theories about s5. I do still hyperfixate on it, given I've been in the fandom since March of 2022.

By posting byler or even will related stuff in no way do I mean Noah. I've learned to separate the character from the actor. Why? Fanart. Specifically, kidovna's will is exactly how I view him.

That's it for now. Don't forget to boost posts about the genocide happening in Palestine. They do need our voices to uplift them since their journalists die one by one in Gaza.

Plus, I'd like to note that associating a genocide with a show like this is not a proper thing to do in any form. Stranger things is fiction, what is happening right now is reality. I know the show represents some aspects of history and reality, but making a genocide about it takes away from what we should actually do.

As for the boycotting, in my theories ull see I use Netflix. I got it recently as a form of gift and I only use it for stranger things and to navigate easily through the episodes for theories. No that this platform has many good shows but whetever. I do boycott as much as I can.

A temporary ceasefire doesn't mean the genocide ended. It's still going, and we can stop it by boycotting these companies. And to succeed that it will take years.

These companies need to have less of an income to be therefore unable to support Israel.

[alisaint]

“respond to what i actually said and not your outrageous assumptions of what i said, and maybe i'll consider having this inane conversation with you depending on how masochistic i feel”

uh, no one’s misconstruing anything. you literally used the words homophobic and misogynistic to describe those who disagree with your interpretation of will’s character.

no assumptions here!

aw. so you're just an idiot then? sad. :(

fine. i'll don my teacher hat and so graciously point out where you did entirely misconstrue me and make assumptions.

How are bylers who take issue with stereotypes homophobic?

why do you look at a character who isn't a stereotype, even though he very easily could have been, and assume him to be one anyway simply because he isn't like other boys? why do you look at anyone who points out what was written and maybe expands on that and assume they've reduced him to a stereotype? why do you view this "stereotype" characterization as a negative to begin with? by denouncing soft gays, you are indeed being a homophobe, and a misogynistic one at that. you imply that they're "bad" gays, and they're "bad" because their softness doesn't fit what you think a gay man should be like.

i call it homophobic and misogynistic because it is. a gay male character is more soft than he is anything else, and you guys want to negate that and will go out of your way to ignore the overwhelming canonical evidence. even now you just want to bite and bark at me like a hit dog rather than actually discuss the matter at hand. where is your evidence that he is in fact not generally and most often a softie? where is your evidence to suggest he is indeed a punk? where is your evidence to suggest this "stereotype" is bad and i'm in the wrong for disagreeing? because i don't see it. i only see you acting silly on anonymous in my inbox because you can't even reblog my shit to talk to me out in the open.

a gay boy being sweet, sensitive, and gentle, is not automatically a stereotype, and certainly not a negative one, which is what you all allege.

it is homophobic for you all to look down on and reject such personalities, and it is homophobic for you to automatically assume that such a person would be one-dimensional (which is what you're saying when you try to bring up examples of him being otherwise, as if a character can only be one or the other and never a mix of things [as will so clearly is]).

it is misogynistic, because you guys always assume that will being soft is a bad thing. you race to uphold and defend his manliness, as if we're disparaging him for not being like the other boys, or as if pointing out his lack in this regard is a negative.

why do you feel a sudden rush to defend him when no one is attacking him? why do you all only ever do this when someone wants to defend or bring up one of will's less masculine and more traditionally feminine qualities? whether you realize it or not, you are denouncing anything that could even remotely be adjacent to femininity, and that you would view these as negatives or weaknesses is misogynistic, because you try to disprove it or "right" this "wrong" by providing examples of masculinity, specifically of more aggressive masculinity, as if to correct something that does not need fixing to begin with. or as if to assert that there is only one form of strength, aka the one more traditionally aligned with masculinity, and that a soft character could not ALSO be strong and brave and "boyish" and all of the other "gotchas" people will bring up that aren't "gotchas" at all. (we're the one's putting him in a box, restricting him to just one thing, and yet... you make these assumptions? you act like people cannot be all of these things at once? as if they are at odds? you confuse me, and you sadden me.)

will does not get called gay by everyone because he did something with another boy. he gets called gay because he's not like other boys. he gets called a fairy because he's not like other boys. lonnie calls him slurs and tries to make him like "normal" things because he's not like other boys. he was supposed to get bullied for his colorful clothes because it's not like that of other boys. it's his lack of traditional masculinity that signals to these people that something is different about him, and men who exist outside of this traditional and stereotypical masculinity are considered to be more feminine and thus gay and it is all viewed as a negative and a weakness. this is a form of homophobia which cannot be separated from the misogyny that it's rooted in. they're interlinked. this is basic fucking theory and something that anyone who pays attention to the world knows without ever even having to read theory.

Most Bylers are queer themselves and relate to Will precisely because he does NOT fit queer stereotypes.

first of all, being queer does not in any way mean you cannot be homophobic. it also doesn't mean you can't be misogynistic, btw.

second of all, in my post i point out how will can be both soft and sharp, thus proving that he isn't a one-dimensional stereotype they claim this "fanon" version of him to be, but a complex and layered character. your statement, and the entirety of your messages really, suggests that i disagree with you. if you had taken a deep breath and actually parsed what i said instead of rooting out any dissenters on that post and assigning me your enemy, you would've realized that and the truth of what i was saying. i defend the real people who those stereotypes are based on, i am not alleging that will is a stereotype.

Byler is for those who haven’t found representation in traditional gay characters.

byler is for anyone and everyone, point blank. you do not get to gatekeep them, especially not if you want to disregard such basic components of what makes byler byler and what makes them so uniquely complementary to begin with.

But most people who try to force Will boxes are the ones who are homophobic because it is usually straight girls on Tumblr and TikTok who can only think of queer males as their GBF.

i'm sure they do it, but i've seen a lot of young gays do it on here and twitter, too. your identity does not absolve you or prevent you from sinning. you were born and brought up in a homophobic world—we all have to do the work of being better every single day of our lives as a result.

i routinely see other queer people—younger ones especially—disparaging "stereotypical" gay people and saying shit that makes them sound exactly like lonnie byers. at least in america, those "stereotypes" are the reason we have rights to begin with. those "stereotypes" were brave enough to fight back for us all, even the ones that didn't stand with them, and they were brave enough to continue to exist as they were, proudly, no matter how much and how hard this world tried to wipe them from existence or make monsters and jokes out of them. you're not just being homophobic when you shit on the real people these stereotypes are pulled from, but you're being an ignorant piece of shit who MUST learn their history if they want to keep and honor said rights.

will cannot be put into any box. that is the entire fucking POINT. "he's not like me. he's not like you. he's not like... most." <- that was said about will in the first couple minutes of the very first episode of this show. will is the outlier. the freak among freaks. the one between worlds. too dead for the living, and too alive for the dead.

i repeat: will cannot be put into ANY box and ALL sides of him must be considered. his differences are his STRENGTHS, not his weaknesses. i don't know how many more times i have to say that to you. in my original reblog i do assess that will is more soft than he is not, but that does not negate the fact that he can be both soft and sharp. can you read? can you process that? have i repeated myself enough times?

the fact that you may be queer does not mean that you know better. you also force him into a box by trying to erase certain qualities of his, and getting angry with others for pointing out his many sides and qualities.

Will is canonically boyish, not hyper-feminine.

who said that will is hyper-feminine? why do you bring that up in a conversation where not only did no one say that, but that isn't even the fucking point? why do YOU make the jump that any male character who happens to be soft MUST be hyper-feminine?

THIS WAS NOT ABOUT GENDER. IT WAS NOT ABOUT FEMININITY. ABOUT HOW BOYISH OR HOW GIRLISH HE IS. IT WAS SIMPLY ABOUT SOFTNESS AND WHAT BEING A PUNK IS. YOU MADE IT ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE YOU'RE LIKE SOME FUCKING BRAINWASHED SLEEPER AGENT A LA BUCKY BARNES WHO SEES CERTAIN KEY WORDS AND COMES RUNNING TO COPY AND PASTE YOUR BULLSHIT INTO MY ASKBOX. SHUT THE FUCK UPPPPPPPPPPPPPP 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️

you are trying to argue things that you know nothing about. you think that your queerness will absolve you of your close-mindedness, but it does not and it will not. you are actively holding yourself back intellectually by hiding behind it. you are not an adept debater, and from one queer person to another, i STRONGLY suggest you find someone else to hold your hand and teach you about these things because i will not be the one to do that.

and it's not my "interpretation" you're disagreeing with when i'm quoting the duffers themselves. unless you'd like to admit that you also disagree with their interpretation too? :) oh, but i forget. truth isn't exactly your forte, is it, anonymous?

i'm not going to read or reply to anything else that you send me btw, so don't bother. if you do, i'll just cherish the chance to block you <3

[id-rather-be-home]

oh no no, I really don't mean to make you feel disheartened nooo. like I said it was only if you're intention was for a switchvers fic because based on your responses lately I can't tell what the future vibe is. I think it's just the nature of the dynamic with the characters chosen! idk maybe it's not stoic... I saw in your other ask you said "will literally makes fun of mike and taunts him" n it reminded me how yeah, domming comes with that darker energy that takes over and so he's not going to be like himself regardless. the switch flip can be jarring in fic but it can happen in real life during sex, even if not to everybody. but the making fun of him is technically degradation not necessarily domming so that becomes a kink preference thing!

as for the disgust thing idk basically I've read the fic with moots and for example one said it was just his discomfort felt strong? but they likened it to how they personally couldn't picture will not liking it, or not feeling good after it, not the writing. i've read top mike bottoming fics and he usually enjoys it but I think that means the author is setting up switchvers (or just mike being a polite guy haha) instead of your fic which has grown to not be what was originally planned (maybe?), and so it's simply a different fic to those others! nothing bad!

and no no definitely not trashing, I know you like it all! it was maybe just some of the dialogue or yeah again his reaction after they finished. but that is your fic and vision, and what you felt best so reiterating I neverrrr want to tell someone how to write, and was just answering what you said in another ask about you wanting to keep in mind having something for everybody in it, which is why I just said as long as all is respected, you're so good! sorry for any panic

i think it's hard for me to tell people definitively what the future vibe of the fic is going to be because i'm not intentionally aiming for anything super specific. i enjoy both bottom mike and bottom will so i'll write them in whatever position i'm vibing with at the time i'm writing the chapter. the main consistency though is going to be a more dominant or assertive will with a submissive mike because i like it more

and when i said "makes fun of him" it isn't supposed to be taken like it's going to be in a super mean way that would require a 'darker energy' from will. will, as a character in the show, teases mike and is a little shit to him in some of the few scenes we get of them not fearing for their lives or battling with internalized homophobia and unrequited love. you could imagine my dom will having the same energy as he has in s3 during the dnd scene where he goes, "is it early, michael?" it's that sort of teasing! he isn't supposed to have some sort of dark energy to make him dominant

and to be honest, i don't know what your moot meant by suggesting will was uncomfortable or didn't like it. i re-read the chapter and will's headspace doesn't come across the way i thought it did when i was writing it - i think i was just not feeling confident as i was writing it. it's clear in the chapter that he's enjoying it and is engaged the whole time; in fact, he's taken by surprise by how sensitive he is and how much he wants from mike in that moment

though i'm really not sure how you wanted him to react at the end when they were finished?? he was tired (and sated, which i do say in the fic specifically) but wasn't a huge fan of the feeling of mike's cum leaking out of him which i think is fair? i could have gone into more of the aftercare stuff post-sex scene but i had lost steam by that point and just wanted to get the chapter posted since it had been literal months since i posted the last one

i think i just don't write bottom will in the way that you perceive him (or your mutuals) which is totally fine. i'm not expecting my fic to appeal to every single person who enjoys spicy byler. but, yeah, i think the future vibe of my fic is going to look a lot like how it looks now

i really hope this doesn't come across as rude! i'm just genuinely kind of baffled by the way will has been interpreted

[strangeswift]

I actually think it is important to be be 'controversial' sometimes because it clears your mind. I am speaking from personal experience. After reading same things over and over again in the tag and seeing the same takes, it blurs your mind and it is like you join a caddle. Then you kinda need to step back and think more clearly and reading other takes and readings help you to clear your mind. I've changed my mind on many things because of that and I believe I have a better understanding in things now than before. Like. I am not gonna get blindsided by what happens next on the show because I do not agree with most popular byler takes (that are reaches most of the time). I still read those things but I am open to different or 'controversial' takes and ideas that are not widely accepted by the bylers in the tag.

Hi anon!!!! Oop I went on a rant so hold on lemme put a read more. Warning I talk about byler doubt (just the concept of having doubts nothing specific about it) towards the end.

Okay anon I agree and this makes me feel good about posting opinions that go against the grain. So thank you for saying this, because I'll be real even though I am confident in my takes, sometimes voicing them comes with a level of anxiety. Here's the thing. The tag likes to act like there are certain things we know for sure are going to happen in S5 (byler endgame being the biggest thing obviously, but there are lots of other more specific things, byler related and not) and the truth is: We Don't Know Anything For Sure!! And I think it's wise to be prepared for the possibility that things work out differently than we are expecting. And this goes for fandom discourse as well not just theories like I think the tag is a bit of an echo chamber, like you said. It truly is easy to get sucked it. I've always been extremely skeptical, that's just how I am, and sometimes I forget that just.. not everyone is as skeptical as I am. Don't get me wrong, I have been sucked in before too. There have been instances where I held an opinion, then when I examined it further I realized it was just rooted in the fact that everyone else held that opinion, and I didn't actually agree with it. But generally I take anything and everything with several grains of salt, which is why like you said it's probably good for me to talk about my opinions when they differ from the norm, because it offers an alternative line of thinking. I do keep my mouth shut about most things because I like to be liked, but yk... I also. hmm do I wanna talk about this.. eh fuck it. I think the biggest thing that makes me "controversial" to some people, other than disagreeing with widely accepted theories, is that I have on several occasions voiced my Byler Doubt™️. And honestly there's a reason why I do sometimes talk about it. I realize that there's no point in dwelling on the possibility of byler not happening, it's depressing. And I would never put doubt in the tag or anything like that. But here's my thing. When I was a smaller blog and didn't have the platform I do now, NONE of the big blogs ever EVER expressed any level of doubt. The narrative was "having doubt is bad, endgame is obvious, if you don't find it obvious you are media illiterate, stuck in heteronormativity, or just plain stupid." And I vehemently disagree with that. Frankly? I find 100% confidence to be a little bit unrealistic, but I would never ever think someone is any less intelligent for having 100% confidence! But I digress. My point is, I suspect there are many people, like me, who have doubts and who feel very isolated. Having doubt is literally taboo, which is insane to me. It's cult vibes is what it is. Anyway. Now that I have a big enough platform that I more or less can kind of say what I want and not get blacklisted, I almost feel a responsibility to occasionally be like hey by the way, I have my doubts! Just so people know. Because it doesn't make you stupid. It makes you realistic. Okay rant over sorry <3

[morganee]

Hello!! How do you imagine the love confession between Mike and Will in season 5? 🌈🌈🌈

Hiii Dani 💛 omg I love your ask First of all, I apologise for answering so late ✨ as always ✨ Okay, let's start by saying that I've imagined many scenarios, but I think the painting will for sure start the discussion that will eventually lead to them confessing to each other. I'm a bit conflicted because while I want byler to get together ASAP, I also want Mike to have some time for himself, too. So I'll give you two scenarios, sorry lol

If Byler gets together right after the events of Vol. 2: Mike finds out that Will lied about the painting and corners him in the basement to ask him about it. They start to fight because Will obviously doesn't want to tell him the truth, so he decides to leave when it gets too much. They end up in front of the garage again (and it's obviously a rainy day) and Mike insists until he shouts "Why did you lie?" and Will breaks down, turns around and screams "Because I love you!". Then it's just Will confessing his feelings and Mike looking at him confused and surprised. He doesn't say anything and Will leaves and hides in the cabin.

They don't get to talk the next day (I would like to get a scene where we see Mike in his room looking at the painting, staring at the ceiling, you know, letting everything sink in and realising everything) because they have to go on separate missions. Before they go, Mike goes to Will and tells him something like "Don't do anything stupid" and Will answers "I already did" and it's obvious he's referencing to him telling Mike about his feelings, thinking he's just ruined their friendship.

When they come back from their missions, Will is hurt and Mike obviously goes crazy. It's not too bad but still, it takes Will a few hours to wake up. When he does, Mike is beside him holding his hand and Mike tells him that yes, he's done something stupid and that was not telling him the truth in the van because he loves him, too.

If Byler gets together after the time skip: I have a less detailed scenario for this but I imagine that we would get some moments at the beginning of the time skip where we realise that Mike clearly has feelings for Will (he's all clumsy around him, makes heart eyes at Will and is even more protective of him, you know: usual Mike). Then the Supernatural Plot™ happens and we get some moments with high tension between them. We could get Mike looking at the painting before going into battle (kind of like remembering how this all started) and it's just them again and Mike blurts out that he's in love with him (it would be so funny to get a moment like in Pirates of the Caribbean when Will and Elizabeth get married lmao that'd be funny). Or maybe! Mike could confess his love for Will while they're hiding somewhere and it's quiet, it would be a nice contrast to m*leven.

I'm just so curious to see how they're actually going to do it, as long as they give it to us (in a nice and respectful way, thank you very much) then I'll be happy :')

Also, little side note then I swear I'll shut up: I think we need to hear them say "I love you" to each other, even though I know that the other endgame couples haven't said those words to each other, but I feel like S5 could be the season where everyone gets to say it to their faces? It'd be nice 💛 Sorry for this long answer :')

[there-was-a-hole-here-itsgonenow]

We saw the HSM 2 Troy/Gabriella and Byler side-by-side last year.

And, due to being on a Disney-related trip with my brother and his girlfriend recently while HSM music blasted in the car (courtesy of his girlfriend), I thought back to the above and started thinking about what other potential HSM references would be great to get in s5.

Specifically from the third and final film soundtrack.

Just Wanna Be With You:

So the HSM 2 reference we got for s4 was Troy and Gabriella splitting up for a bit after some bad miscommunication (to sum it up simply). From HSM 3 we have “Just Wanna Be With You,” the couple’s concluding romantic song for the series. And it’s so, so sweet and what Mike and Will deserve to communicate to each other. But more than that, there’s so much of the song that just fits the dynamic they have had from the start! A dynamic that we on this tag know so well!

Read some of these lyrics and just envision Byler TwT:

“We're being pulled

A hundred different directions

But whatever happens

I know I've got you

You're on my mind

You're in my heart

It doesn't matter where we are

We'll be alright

Even if we're miles apart

All I wanna do

Is be with you, be with you

There's nothing we can't do

I just wanna be with you, only you

No matter where life takes us

Nothing can break us apart

You know it's true

I just wanna be with you”

…

“You know how life can be

It changes over night

It's sunny then raining

But it's alright

A friend like you

Always makes it easy

I know that you get me

Every time

Through every up

Through every down

You know I'll always be around

Through anything you can count on me”

I have… so many feelings about this song for Byler. Something I love is that Troy and Gabriella are in love with each other and the song establishes they are friends too. We all know that’s one of the best parts of Mike and Will’s relationship: their friendship!! Their friendship will be at the core of their romance! And just ‘understanding/getting each other and falling back on each other’ and being in each other’s minds and hearts… It’s everything they have but deserve more of too! In truly getting to be together as friends and more than friends!

Not to mention life changing overnight, ups and downs… but they have the ability to make things easier on each other (when subtracting miscommunication and societal norms getting in the way, Mike and Will are able to open up and lean on each other in ways they can’t with anyone else). And what is all Will wants to do? Play DnD with Mike in his basement for the rest of his life. He just wants to be with him 🥲

Also just… IMAGINE getting anything resembling sequences like this for s5 Byler:

(Fanfic balcony wishes)

(This is while they are singing “I just want to be with you”)

(And this lil scene involves playing around with paint; I can’t dEAL!! The vision is there and it’s so precious!!!)

In conclusion: more HSM Byler would be very welcomed!!!!

The Boys are Back:

This is me wanting to be spoiled with OG Party scenes. But seriously though!! This song works for the Party! The whole song is about Troy and Chad thinking back on their childhoods and reliving the pretend games they played as kids—like detectives, spies, and superheroes. We even get a flash of their younger selves!

You can spin some of the lyrics to meaningfully fit the context of the Party (but unlike playing pretend games as kids and teens, the Party’s DnD games keep manifesting into reality). Some of the best ones include:

“Take it back to the place when

You know it all began

We can be anything we wanna be

You can tell by the noise that

The boys are back again

Together making history”

&

“Here to change the world

To solve the mystery

Fight the battle

Save the girl…

No one can stop us now

We’re the ones that make the rules”

Of course they’re [now] all back in the same place everything began, Hawkins (more full circle relation). Changing the world in the way ‘classic’ heroes do: solving mysteries and fighting battles (both Vecna-related + Will’s painting), but also saving/helping save [Max]. I believe the victories in each example will come because the ‘rules’ (Vecna’s ways of order) are going to be flipped and fought against.

More to be said here but the above speaks for itself. Overall, the main thought is our boys are coming back together again and will make some history. The song is framed as confident and assured, as if a big bad will be overcome. I love the thought of this for the Party!

Scream:

And this one, I feel, fits Mike the most. In HSM 3, this song is about Troy feeling torn about what to do with his life after highschool: go with a basketball scholarship his father has always forced on him or a Juliard scholarship he didn’t apply for. He’s having an absolute mental breakdown trying figure out what he’ll do, a big emphasis being that he wants his own personal choice without feeling forced one way or another. Not to mention, worried about being separated from Gabriella as she got accepted to a college far away from either college option he’s being presented.

With lyrics like these, it’s not hard to associate them with Mike at all (too many feel so on-the-nose too):

“Voices in my head

Tell me they know best

Got me on the edge

They're pushin', pushin', they're pushin'

I know they've got a plan

But the ball's in my hands

This time is man-to-man

I'm drivin', fightin', inside of

A world that's upside down”

…

“I don't know where to go

What's the right team

I want my own thing

So bad I'm gonna scream

I can't chose, so confused

What's it all mean

I want my own dream

So bad I'm gonna scream!

I'm kicking down the walls

I gotta make them fall

Just break through them all

I'm punchin', crushin', I'm gonna

Fight to find myself

Me, and no one else

Which way, I can't tell

I'm searchin', searchin', can't find a

Way that I should turn

I should, to right or left, it

It's like nothing works

Without you”

(This next part is just… scarily beyond fitting)

“… the clock's running down,

Hear the crowd getting loud

I'm consumed by the sound!

Is it her?

Is it love?

Can the music ever be enough?”

Truly… do I even need to explain that? Any of this for ST context?? Mike not only trying to find himself but trying to fight for it… all this on-the-money Vecna and Vecna’d correlation… Not to mention the part about wanting his own ‘dream’—as if dreams already aren’t a huge theme in ST! There’s just so much in the realm of possibility with “Scream”!

Let me put emphasis on this scene too:

“A world that's upside down

It's spinning faster

What do I do now

Without you?”

If this were a reference for a Mike scene… god just think of the serious angst this could entail. Especially if Mike and Will got separated or during Mike’s Vecna’d scenario (playing upon his fear of losing Will all over again). In some version of the UD, physical or metaphorical, perhaps in a situation that has Mike trapped and stuck, yet he is mustering the power to fight back despite being overwhelmed! So, so many possibilities with what we know, especially with a focus on Mike’s mental health in mind.

I swear if I see anything resembling the above scene, lyrics, or anything from this sequence in s5 for Mike, I will lose what little mind I have left.

Troy is even wearing the number 14 on his jersey!!!!C’mon!! It’s right there all gift-wrapped for us!!!

[henrysglock]

I think birthdaygate is a cool concept, one that I've even posted on re:stolen memories, but I'm not sure if I can see how it fits into the plot besides a type of segue into Connie/Malice.

I can totally see Mike and Will both not wanting to be the first to say anything if they both remembered, and if there's another byler fought it could factor in that way, too. Like, there's 365 days on the calendar, they only mention the date aloud explicitly TWICE and is the same one.

Theories are weird because alot of them make sense while also not contradicting eachother, but if also just feels like A Heckin Lot sometimes. Maybe I'll make some sort of, like, chart to see what's a normal amount of information to aquire per season lol.

Oh it definitely fits, especially with the two different Wills in the vanishing (that's Em's baby though, so that stuff should go to him). We've already been given a replacement birth date: May 22nd.

There's a Will who ended up in a cabin in the woods, and a Will who ended up in the lab, experimented on. We don't have any memories form Will of his vanishing. We don't know which timeline we're dealing with.

Theory 1:

If Connie is HNL-wiped/modified Alice, and Karen is HNL-wiped/modified Virginia...there's no family left to question it. They can be completely rewritten. Will has Joyce and Jonathan and Mike, etc. If he was wiped, they'd have to make him at least close. It's possible that it's not perfect, though, much like how the Creel massacre retellings don't line up. We see Will question what else a bowl would be for other than cereal, as if he doesn't have a bowl cut. We see him ask if the fireworks are "sweet" (read: strong/cool), when Lucas and Max both know they're big ones (regardless of Max trying to get Lucas to focus on El's injury). It's fishy, especially in the season where Karen looks most like Virginia.

It doesn't feel like Vecna would take Will's birthday away from him, because he's in the business of highlighting hurts so he can "relieve suffering", not erasing the hurts from memory. Vecna seems more likely to try to use a mass forgetfulness of March 22nd to get at/isolate Will, and it ought to work. Will already feels left behind, and the birthday would be the cherry on top.

But Will doesn't ever mention his birthday. There's no indication that he himself remembers it. He's upset about being ignored, treated like a third wheel...but he never elaborates on that, even in the heat of the fight with Mike, at which point they're surrounded by birthday parties.

It's possible that Will himself doesn't remember, because he's not the right Will.

Theory 2:

The crew doesn't remember not because Vecna is influencing their memories, but because in that timeline May 22nd is Will's birthday.

This ties in with the two timelines. We also don't know which Will ended up where. We have the Connie/Karen/Alice/Virginia plus Will's kooky knowledge gaps to deal with here too.

tl; dr: I'm sure there are even more iterations/possibilities, but the main thing is: all paths lead to Rome!

[castlebyersafterdark]

Something I’ve noticed is that Mike seems to win most of the “boy-coded” spicy byler polls (like who jerks off more) while Will wins most of the girl-coded polls (can’t think of a specific example, but there’s def something there). I’m not talking about bottom vs. top stuff.

And I’m not talking about the whole GNC Will debate- obviously that’s something to keep in mind- but Will is still a guy at the end of the day. It’s more of a subtle thing I’m referring to, but it’s hard to explain, and I wonder if you’ve noticed anything like this?

I’m just so intrigued why the results tend to be so lopsided. Obvi in polls someone has to win, but the results always go in one specific way. I wonder if it’s because people see Will as more “innocent” in some ways or they don’t think he would engage in certain sexual behaviors? But people still seem to see Will as “lowkey a freak” (which is also one of the “girl” coded things) so I don’t think it’s really that?

This is interesting, and not sure I see the entirety of what you mean? I'd love more examples on what you consider 'girl-coded' because I have to admit I'm not entirely sure what that means or what falls under that when referring to two gay male characters, especially with the low-key a freak thing. This is honestly in the tone of general curiosity and me just not understanding, by the way! I haven't really mentally cataloged trends like this too deep, but I'll take a crack at a few things.

Maybe trends I have personally seen more of, from all sorts of poll accounts or general posts, lean more towards Mike always losing anything physical? He can't win a wrestling match, he can't win at arm wrestling, he can't bike faster, he can't do anything, like he just rarely wins these poll matchups, by a landslide. I just think even if he is the less picked option, I'm always surprised when results aren't close for thst stuff. Is it this odd thing where people nerf Mike's personality and competence? I've yet to see a compelling reason. And I don't really want to argue about it, just observing. I guess it's me bristling against the cringe-fail pathetic loser Mike fanon. I do not like him. And none of this is to say that Will is a pathetic weakling as a caveat of poll result confusion. One thing doesn't have to lead to another. It's hard to articulate what I'm getting at, sorry!!

But, I do see Will losing more that paint him as overly innocent. And his innocence is a trait I love, but that trait in my own interpretation does NOT mean a lack of sexuality. I think people take his repression and internalized homophobia too far or just off-book to inaccurate extremes, as if he's not a literal gay teenage boy. And that he's never thinking about sex, i.e. attraction to men and sex with men.

Maybe my thing is not being too pressed about polls in general? If I'm being completely honest. Not that I'm here to dunk on anyone's fun, sometimes it's a brainless click and meaningless or it just reflects I think more on which character the voter either likes more or projects onto more or whatever, than any sort of real character analysis. I know often I just click polls after a split second thought and there's not always some deep meaning when I do, I'll admit that! See button, click button, yay result, boo result. Caveman brain. Silly, but I'll say it.

I'm such an overthinking type that a question in the vein of "who jerks off more" really doesn't do much for me in having to pick Mike or Will? I want to think about and discuss "what are the differences in Mike and Will's jerking off habits" and get into it. I am the pretentious dude who always brings analysis to sex headcanons, that's my whole schtick haha.

[pythoness94]

YES! Say it louder for the people in the back. Mike isn't evil, he isn't using Will, he isn't aware of Will's feelings, and he's not hurting Will on purpose. Some people treat Mike likes he's the devil incarnate, like from the beginning he was manipulating Will to make him as miserable as possible. Like chat, he's fourteen, this isn't a disney movie we can drop the unforgivable villain trope. Mike is a child, a child who made mistakes, just like Will. Will hurt Mike but there is nobody calling for Will's head on a bedazzled pike like they are Mike. Is that because you think Will can't handle his own shit? he's fourteen, he can emotionally regulate guys, he doesn't need to be coo'd at and coddled by everybody in the party because Mike was paying attention to his girlfriend. Like, I'll admit Mike was a total dick during Rink-O-Mania (As a byler shipper btw, I'm not saying they aren't canon, they are 100%) but he isn't fucking Vecna, he's not doing anything malicious on purpose. He's just an oblivious teen that can be held accountable for his mistakes but shouldn't have them blown out of proportion

I hate in fanfic where they have the party absolutely hate Mike and kick him out of the party (That he started; we like to forget but Mike literally opens the series by being the DM. He's the party leader, Will even says so.) Because not only is it the 80'S so homophobia isn't out of the norm. Mike saying, "It's not my fault you don't like girls." as shitty as it is, isn't something that "Shocking" to hear and nobody would ever say that. The only reason it would be shocking to the party is because Mike said it. Even then, they wouldn't be mad because he said that, they would be mad because he said it to WILL. and they wouldn't be that mad, just berate him for a bit. I hate it when they make Mike the butt of every joke. Like there is a point where Mike would snap, it isn't funny when every "Joke" is targeted on you and there is a point where it get's OOC. Like when mf EL is calling Mike a dick and clowning on him you know you trailed to far from canon.

Max is the only character who would act like this to Mike, not fucking Lucas. People forget that Mike is their best friend too, and we need to remember that. Mike isn't just "Will's boyfriend." or "Will's crush" He's the party's best friend, they care for him, not hate him. If he did something they didn't like, they wouldn't kick him out, they would ask him why. If at any time you do this, you make every character dog on Mike without remorse and have Mike just take it and say "He deserves it". Then not only did you fuck up the characters, you made Mike into the punching bag, you removed his character. at this point in time, you can remove Mike with some fucking rando with a crush on Will and it wouldn't make a difference. Your favorite characters are people, when writing them, put yourself in their shoes and think how you would feel and don't lie to yourself to fufill your bias. Because you know damn well that's not how Mike or you would react. Will wouldn't stand for everybody dogging on Mike, he wouldn't stand for being babied (Season two anybody? remember that? ), and he wouldn't let his party kick out HIS best friend, no matter how Mike made him feel. Because the good Mike does for Will, greatly out weighs the bad in his mind.

you guys mischaracterise will and mike so much that fannon byler is basically just them