#does she also have a crush on rand and elayne or is she just an unwilling wingman? i don't know but either way she's pissed | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

cannoli-reader · 2 years ago

Note

I read your post about sexism and military stuff in WoT and your idea that the story is not sexist for it's military being all men is interesting, but what about the rest of the gender essentialism? Women are X and Men are Y and all that?

It's still a case of sexist characters, not a sexist narrative. The gender essentialism is what the characters believe. They also believe, or profess to believe, that the Forsaken were bound with the Dark One, by the Creator at the moment of Creation. The Tinkers believe that there is a Song out there that will restore the Age of Legends. The Aiel believed they were always a proud warrior nation. The narrative clearly shows us that these are not at all true. Therefore, just because a character says "Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus," does not necessarily mean that it is an objective fact in the world of WoT.

Just to go over some examples, we have Thom telling Mat "Men forget and never forgive and women forgive but never forget." It's not even all that clear that Thom believes this, let alone Jordan. He's an older man responding to a 20 year old kid's inquiries about his response to a former romantic relationship. Thom's feelings about Morgase are very personal and complex and not something he is ready to get into a whole complicated discussion about, with Mat of all people.

It's pretty clear that Thom has, in fact, forgiven Morgase for her support of the Aes Sedai who abused his nephew, and he has not forgotten what precipitated their breakup. The following book, several months later, shows that he is still deeply effected by what happened to Owyn. By contrast, as we see in Morgase's stream of consciousness, it's not all that clear that she has forgiven him, for his acts of lese majeste before leaving her for good. Thom knew Morgase for years, certainly before she came to the Throne, and for the first few years of her reign, their relationship was purely professional. The romantic/sexual part of their relationship was less than a year. He has had at least one other very close relationship since then, and it was 15 years in the past anyway. It looms large in his backstory to Mat and the readers, but it's not the driving passion of Thom's life, and he really has no way to explain that to Mat without being dismissive of Morgase. So he blows him off with a bit of pseudo wisdom. But it's doubtful he really believes this and even less likely that Jordan wants the readers to believe it.

Another case that comes up is the wisdom of Marin al'Vere, a couple of times in tSR. First Egwene quotes her as saying that women want to be in love, but only with the partner of their choice, and that men need to be in love and so will easily fall for any woman who makes an effort at a relationship with them. She also gives Faile relationship advice suggesting that you control men by giving way on unimportant things and standing firm on important ones, and later, that men are basically just overgrown boys and can be tricked into compliance with sweet talk and bribery.

And this is all bullshit.

The quote about men being vulnerable to predatory women comes up in the context of Elayne's concerns about Berelain making moves on Rand. And the readers know it's not true, since Berelain's efforts to tie a string around Rand's heart (or other anatomy) failed, hard. Hell, Egwene herself tried back in the pre-series in Emond's Field and it has not lasted. The readers also know that Rand is, at this point, seriously crushing on Elayne and Min, the former of whom has done nothing to entice or entrap him, and if the latter did, she herself seems unaware of the effect it had. During the subsequent meeting between Rand, Egwene and Elayne, Egwene is almost hilariously blind to Rand's feelings for Elayne, puzzled by his reactions to her presence and oblivious to the fact that he is far more responsive to Elayne than he is to Egwene. With Faile, of course, we see the first bit of advice being repeated by Abell Cauthon to Perrin on handling women, with Perrin taking note of the similarity, and the latter advice Faile dismisses out of hand and instead persuades Perrin not by diversion and manipulation, but by straightforward explanation of her position.

The gender essentialism is something that the series only pays lip service to, and undermines in any number of places. Egwene is concerned about Talmanes figuring out what she is up to, because he is a man and men gossip excessively so he might endanger her plan ... only to learn that he figured it out from a woman gossiping. Things like this make it seem pretty clear to me that Jordan intended them to be taken with a grain of salt.

63 notes · View notes

amemoryofwot · 8 months ago

Text

Ok final TSR wrap up and thoughts moving into S3 below

Whatta book damn. RJ is genuinely funny to me and there’s a lot of like, physical and situational comedy that I hope carries through to S3 (Nynaeve throwing the collar at Moghedien, Elayne and her 2x4, nobody knowing what the hell anyone is ever doing). He’s also so good at just like, desperate crushing character moments, like the AoL Aiel, Aram taking the sword, the final Battle of Two Rivers.

Even more so than Rand this is really Perrin’s book. He has the most complete storyline, which is great for S3 but a challenge moving forward as he is literally not in TFoH, and doesn’t do much until Dumai’s Wells. He also fights a lot of Trollocs, like a lot. Every second chapter someone is fighting Trollocs. For timing purposes the show could easily cut it down to Perrin’s failed ambush, and the final battle. That would still get him to the Tuatha’an and the Whitecloaks while cutting out two or three skirmishes. Whether CGI or practical i’m sure the Trollocs would be expensive and they already got dragged for 1x08’s PS2 Trollocs, so i’d personally rather have them less but better quality. I could see him and Faile having a whirlwind “omg what did we just do” kind of wedding in face of all the Trollocs and not expecting to live, but I can also see that being pushed. I think this will be the bulk of the S3 time.

Rand’s storyline could really be two eps, there’s actually not a lot there once we get rid of the Stone (for now). One for Cold Rocks Hold leading to Rhuidean, and then one for the journey to Alcair Dal. Of course he’s gonna have more to do like argue with Moiraine about prophecy, and hopefully everyone will get some bonding time in Falme, but he’s mostly travelling which the show doesnt really focus on with their wild back and forth, and he also gets attacked by a lot of Trollocs. Lan also has nothing to do this book so sword and toxic masculinity lessons being pushed to S3 will smooth that out at least.

Egwene kind of has nothing to do this book so S3 will surely be her Dreaming, although I wonder in what capacity. Verin, Siuan, or the Wise Ones or even Aviendha could really be intro points. I also don’t believe she would pass by the Dominion Band two or three times without realizing what it is, so her intro Dreaming sequence is largely filler except for meeting Amys. Nynaeve has a line about Egwene waking up screaming from nightmares so i think she of all people would recognize it. She also has a few moments with Moiraine so Moiraine’s story will probably be focused on Egwene and Rand versus her own S2 storyline.

Much of Tanchico is through Elayne’s perspective, which pulls her into our main group. Nynaeve takes a slight backseat in PoV to balance it out. There will be a lot going on between Thom, Min, Liandrin, Moggy, and possibly Mat, (Egeanin?) but I think it will also be the smoothest to adapt as everybody has something to do already, instead of having to make stuff up to keep them moving together.

The leftover bit is the coup. Min not being there to rescue Siuan doesnt really matter except that someone will have to take her spot, as i dont think Siuan can do it herself. Gawyn seems a good choice to set up his inner conflict/indecision. The Blues could also just sweep them out on their way to Salidar. Siuan does spend a LONG time looking for Salidar, and as much as i love a good depression roadtrip this would cut time AND spare us Gareth if they could just go right there. Especially if LoC plotlines are coming in S4 we dont have time to wander the countryside and burn down a barn.

Anyways my inexperienced opinion is its actually not that much to get through, if you imagine one intro episode, 2 for each Two Rivers, the Waste, and Tanchico storylines, and maybe even one Andor/Tower focused. Two Rivers will wrap up in ep 7, and the rest in ep 8. I’m imagining the coup and Couladin will be the big season cliffhangers.

#tsr re read

6 notes · View notes

onaperduamedee · 2 years ago

Text

Notes on The Fires of Heaven

Full spoilers for The Fires of Heaven under the cut:

I am here for monstrous women, always, and mad with power as Elaida is, I know she is going to put on a show.

I was not at all expecting Fain in the White Tower but hell, yes, that self-serving bastard continues to entertain. And Alviarin (!) was as unexpected.

Bloody hell, the Siuan and Leane chapters. Hands down, psychology-wise, plot-wise, I am enraptured by their arcs. The underlying theme of masks and masquerade feels so queer also, specifically female queerness.

Caralin having a crush on Leane while Bryne has one on Siuan is hilarious, the remarks on Domani women less so.

Egwene is such a stalwart little trouper. She completely embraced Aiel culture and I am so proud of her. Her relationship with Aviendha is genuinely one of the sweetest, considering how Egwene reacts to people trying to have an edge on her. Egwene feels relatively safe with Aviendha and it makes me so happy.

However, I'm glad that Egwene told off Aviendha for the way she insists Rand is Elayne's, because that was getting creepy.

Mat likes older women, apparently. I love that he always seems a bit out of place in the YA genre. He's one of the freshest characters among the leads because of it.

Both Mat and Moiraine are right for being wary of Rand. At this point, he is listening to Forsaken in secret, hiding a bloody bandwagon of Darkfriends to the Aiel and Moiraine, and planning to march with an Aiel army to the West. His valid fear of getting controlled is looking an awful lot like self-sabotage and preventively shutting off support, and oof, this poor boy.

Moiraine's "A spoonful of hope and a cup of despair" didn't break me at all. It's a bit unclear what Moiraine's oath to Rand entails considering the first oath, but I am fascinated by the chain of events that led her to this point. Plus, Siuan pledged allegiance to Bryne to escape death, and with the intent to postpone that allegiance because Bryne does not remotely matter, Rand does. So Moiraine vowing to obey Rand, in light of her despair and his growing dissociation, is delicious.

On one hand, I detest the recurring theme of powerful women having to be put in their place and submit to male characters (Siuan, Nynaeve, Morgase, Moiraine). On the other, I can't deny it was hilarious to see Moiraine "brat" Sedai fuming from being told to shush. I know that Josha and Rosamund are going to make a banquet out of this relationship, I cannot wait.

Me after meeting the girls again: I am so proud that they gained experience in Tanchico. They're much more cautious and prepared. They won't get captured like in Tear. The girls one chapter after: walk into the most obvious trap Me: I genuinely don't know why I expected anything else

There's an alternative turn of the Wheel where Nynaeve just admits she is obsessed with Moiraine on top of Lan because she brings her up more often than him.

Thom and Juilin are really fun together. I suspect the show will merge them which is a shame because I am enjoying their dynamic with the girls. Uno later getting added to the group of threatening reluctant bodyguards with a soft spot for those reckless kids is quite heartwarming.

I won't talk about the romances because I don’t have a single positive comment to make. None. The notes are scathing and I’m not having a good time.

Everything about the Wise Ones trying to school Nynaeve and Nynaeve telling them to fuck off and just doing the opposite of what they ordered? So bloody excellent. The gall they have to expect Nynaeve, who isn't even their student like Egwene, to follow their ways.

Egwene’s way of teaching Nyn a lesson was a) horrifying, b) absolutely written in stone. That girl has PTSD and someone trying to assert dominance triggers her quite badly.

Hmmmm, Nynaeve seeing her friends as charges who must fall in line, aha no, I hate it here. Though it is fascinating on a purely narrative level. At this point, with Nynaeve torn between putting back Eg under her authority and preserving their friendship, their relationship is so strained that I wonder if it will heal completely.

It makes me feel a type of way that Nyn, a woman healer in her mid-twenties, would see a young traumatized woman ten years her junior and think “I need to teach her a lesson”. I applaud the layers in characterisation, but uh, it’s so uncomfortable to see unfold.

The Egwene and Moiraine scene... The Galad reveals… I am having a blast here. It feels so good to see the kids starting to grasp what this journey could cost them. Moiraine's reaction to Siuan's demise is exactly what I expected from her. One thing I appreciate particularly about Jordan's writing for Moiraine is its incredible consistency: Moiraine is intensely private and non-sentimental, and Jordan doesn't concede a centimeter in that area for the sake of relatability.

If I have to read one more time that men are so strange they barely seem human at all or that women are all insane I will scream.

Oh, the schadenfreude of Elayne and Nyn having to work in the circus after berating Luca like business school graduates for not having a real job is Delicious.

Morgase: how can Lini afford these things on a nurse pension? Me: you're the one paying her?!?

Was Moiraine with someone during the attack near Jangai Pass? Because between the blushing, the fact she was quite obviously naked beneath her robe, Lan looking troubled and her lack of care for whatever was happening, it looks like she was occupied when the draghkars attacked.

Everything about Rand and how he navigates the power dynamics around him, including his "friends" and allies is fascinating, please give me more. He changed most of the mains in the span of such a short time and it’s bloody mesmerizing.

I nearly had a fit of excited and nervous laughter when I realised Aviendha gatewayed them into Seanchan territory. Oh, the nonsense that could ensue from introducing this device.

The Aiel having to be told to maybe not plunder a country that's already plagued by civil war and famine though... I really enjoy that, so far, none of the nations we've encountered are ideal, even the Aiel who seem the author’s favourite. The nations are often riddled with prejudices and obsessed with petty dominance play. More than the military aspect, the heart of Rand's peace is the collaboration between nations and the confrontation of biases.

Contrary to Min, I am living for Leane’s in her vamp years.

The Siuan chapters are so, so, so good. I am vibrating with excitement. Siuan, my love, you absolute unstoppable force of nature. She's now the lowest of the low among the Aes Sedai and she still manages to play them. She's the best.

The Aes Sedai camp is also fascinating: the way they cling to old hierarchy and rules despite the obvious chaos and new order is just UH please, I am feasting.

My excitement for everything Siuan and the rebel Tower is somewhat dampened by Bryne’s creepiness about Siuan. His obsession with Siuan when he thought she was his 20-year-old servant is not great, but understandable because old man, hot girl, but to think he would still insist on having her as a servant despite her being ex-Amyrlin, stilled and now involved in sedition? I’m sorry, this is a man who spent most of his life serving powerful women: the reversal smells an awful lot like resentment.

Justice for Isendre, actually. The treatment she got from the Aiel and her brutal murder were harrowing.

Loving the relationship between Rand and the Maidens in general even if I don’t enjoy his will-they-won’t-they with Aviendha. I cannot wait to see his dynamic with that group in particular, it’s so fond and fun, and Rand deserves an army of aunts and grandmas looking after him.

I'm beginning to see a pattern of the Wheel/visions used as a way to push women in relationships with men they say they don't want to be involved with and yeah... I said I was not talking about the romance, didn't I?

Nyn refusing to see she is a bad cook is so funny.

Ahhhh, I get to mad scientist Elayne! She is so cute when she's nerding out like that.

The Birgitte, reborn? Oh, this is good, this is so good. Although Elayne bonding her without Birgitte knowing is certainly... a choice, given the whole MoLan ordeal.

The showdown with Moghedien was an absolute banger. I love that Nyn gets her own archnemesis who is terrifying. However, I do not understand at all the rules in ter’aran’rhiod.

Birgitte is the epitome of no BS, I love her. She was created to give Nyn several heart attacks a day.

Aside from the confrontation with Moghedien, Birgitte's rebirth and Nynaeve's subsequent guilt, I have to be honest the circus chapters land completely flat for me. A lot of it feels like filler and the humorous aspect doesn't fit my taste enough for them to be really enjoyable. They are not bad, but they are barely entertaining for me.

Nynaeve's confrontation with Masema was entertaining as hell though. It's really rewarding to see that she started to gain finesse when it comes to politics.

Adored the battle of Cairhien itself. I love LOVE that for all of the push for him to become a warlord and a warrior, Rand is a leader. He tries to be a soldier because so many want him to be, but at heart, he is a political leader. Mat is the general here.

I find Rand and Egwene's separate journeys so endearing: they have main-character-induced extraordinary abilities, but they are also so eager to learn. Both go out of their way to absorb as much info as possible and form their opinion. Rand raiding the Stone library and reading every single book on the prophecy? Egwene going into the Waste to study with the Wise Ones? Rand getting a Forsaken to teach him? To me at least, it makes them very relatable.

Nynaeve accidentally starting a riot because she sucks at Daes Dae'mar is very on-brand.

The tension between the girls until they leave the circus feels contrived and petty, and then suddenly we get on the boat and it becomes so much more nuanced and human. Genuinely one of my favourite chapters of the book. Nynaeve’s thoughts are so good and moving there.

Asmodean with the exact same energy as the kid with a trombone adding a soundtrack to his mom's life is the funniest aspect of the book.

I must say, contrary to Ingtar's well-handled heel turn, I did not expect the Melindhra reveal. Good lord. So far the DF reveals don't get old and I am really digging how they are absolutely everywhere.

Moiraine carrying and looking after the mean of her demise all the way from the Waste... I am going to be sick.

I have thoughts about suicidal ideation and depression that wouldn't fit here, but yeah, Moiraine, you brave, dedicated, incomprehensible little soul.

Along with the Riversnake chapters, the back-to-back Moiraine death/Sulin and Rand scenes are masterful. Rand making Moiraine's death about his guilt and Sulin setting him straight about the fact that yes, dying for him is an honor, him protecting them instead would deny them agency. It's very interesting in the wake of Moiraine's sacrifice, and Lan's denial of sacrifice for her. I like it. I like it a lot.

If this was all we got of her, -and like with Morgase, no body, no dead-, I would be good with it, I think. I could write essays about what a complex, striking character she is. From the start, she was a shield for Rand and she remained so, even after her erring mentorship. And of course, Moiraine would not come out gently into that good night.

I am living for the Siuan and Nynaeve duo. I can’t tell you how much I love them and seeing these two diamonds of a female character collaborate, especially on these terms, is making me giddy for what’s to come.

I cackled a little bit at Nynaeve managing to trap a Forsaken like Rand. Priceless. Moghedien is one of the women who followed Nynaeve to Salidar, right? My bet is on Areina.

As fun as the Rahvin/Rand showdown was (Rahvin tried to turn Rand into a beast???) a lot of it made the magic system and the rules of tel'aran'rhiod even more confusing.

So Rand will be taking on male channelers? That's a great idea actually even though he's got far too much on his plate already.

After the breathless whirlwind of the Blight, the dead-rising battle over Falme, the dream-induced fall of the Stone of Tear, the traps at Rhuidean, I must say this was the most underwhelming finale so far. The docks in Cairhien were fantastic, visually, and because it was such an explosion of rage, but the battle in dream Caemlyn was too similar to Tear.

Closing on Morgase alive and Asmodean dead also feels like tacked-on after-credit scenes. I will miss that cheeky evil bard.

Overall, I preferred TDR and TSR, and I’m not entirely sure I liked it better than TGH. Perrin, Loial and Faile were completely absent and I feel like, again, we could do with more Siuan, Moiraine and Egwene, but the story keeps going into new territories, introducing surprising turns and delivering on the emotional front.

I have to talk about it because it felt like this book particularly dealt with teacher/student relationships, failed, forced or grounding: The progression of Rand & Moiraine’s arc over the books (trying to give him space, Rand fleeing, Moiraine attaching herself to him and failing to prove herself, Moiraine at last compromising and proving herself by dying for him) is well delineated. Moiraine made compromises to Rand at just the right time for it to be impactful, especially knowing how soon in TSR she learned of her demise.

In comparison, I am curious to see where the Rand and Lan mentorship arc will lead because up to that point, it feels almost completely static, despite the early start in TGH. It's actually quite interesting to see Lan remark to Rand how similar they are when we as a reader saw next to nothing of Lan's psyche while Rand's internal monologue is reminiscent of Moiraine’s.

One thing sticking out in this book is how much could be cut out. A lot is essentially atmospheric fluffing, like the bannerman's backstory or the circus. As a whole, most of the journey to Salidar could be trimmed down considerably for the show. It can be entraining and will probably be used for levity, but you wouldn't need several filmed scenes of it.

#wot review #the fires of heaven #wot book spoilers #the wheel of time #wot meta #meta #remblai #I will take an Ekumen-themed break and carry on #very excited for LoC #I've heard it's one of the best in the series

6 notes · View notes

cheeeerie · 3 years ago

Text

Hey! What the fuck!

Wheel of Time Book AND Show spoilers ahead.

So. Perrin/Egwene/Rand. That… happened. I sure do wish it hadn’t.

I have to say that I didn’t see it coming, despite the fact that other people told me they thought this was going to happen. And… yeah. Okay. I get where they’re coming from. I can see it too if I look back, and I was one of those who definitely picked up on something between the two of them in the first book, but it’s just one of Jordan’s abandoned plots. They’re all over book 1.

Which is why I EXPECTED them to do nothing with it in the show, but, hey, here we are. So here’s the issue with Perrin having feelings for Egwene: it makes Perrin so, *so* utterly unlikable. Listen, Perrin was already a little unlikable in the show, but I put up with it because book Perrin is my favorite character and the show was doing a good job of making me like characters I hadn’t liked in the books, so I trusted them to make me love Perrin by the end of the season. Well, the clock is ticking mother fuckers, and I still hate him.

So the fact that he married a woman without loving her and spent apparently the entire marriage pining after his best friend’s girlfriend is, como se dice, not good. Not only that, but this show is making you route for Egwene and Rand’s relationship in a way the books never did. In the books their relationship was pretty casual and innocent, and they gave both of them alternative options—Elayne for Rand and Aram for Egwene— pretty early on, so when they break up in book 4 you’re more relieved than upset. I understand that making them more serious will make the stakes higher, and therefore make the break up more emotional. In the books, we wanted them to break up. In the show, we want them to be together.

Not only does show Perrin still basically have the personality of soggy bread, he’s now an obstacle in a relationship we’re routing for. Or is he??? It’s made pretty clear that his feelings are one sided, so why are they even there if not to strain the relationship? Is it to give him something to hate himself about? Because that’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. Why can’t he just hate himself for MURDERING HIS WIFE!

Okay. Deep breaths. Here’s how they can not ruin the show with this dumb as fuck character dynamic.

Firstly, make it to where Perrin no longer loves Egwene. Make it clear that he married Laila in a spur of the moment decision after his bestie hooked up with his crush. It was a dumb stupid 18 year old move, make him regret it.

After he regrets it, have him do a little self-loathing over the fact that he never loved Laila OR Egwene. Boo-hoo, I’m a horrible violent wolf boy incapable of love, yada yada you get the gist.

Faile swoops in, also believing herself to be a horrible violent person incapable of love, except she doesn’t hate herself for it. She teaches Perrin to accept this “fact” about himself. They are both horrible violent people who pretend that they’re incapable of love even as they fall in love with each other.

Send Faile to Malden to do some good development while Perrin does some bad development, Faile comes back and says “oh shit I was wrong about that whole nihilism thing” and has to uncorrupt Perrin.

I don’t LOVE it, but it’s something I can like, and I did what I could with what I have. Would love to heat y’all’s ideas.

#wheel of time #perrin aybara #egwene al'vere #rand al'thor #egwene x rand #wot on prime #amazon wheel of time #wheel of time books #wheel of time show #it’s fine this is fine #screaming #i can fix this

29 notes · View notes

butterflydm · 3 years ago

Text

the great hunt (chap 22-27)

Spoilers through the end of book 2.

1. We meet again, Moiraine and Lan! On page 325. It’s nice to see you. We know that Moiraine will have A Plotline in S2, but I’m curious about what it’ll look like. The two people who are most ‘off-track’ from their book storylines at this point in the show are Moiraine and Mat, so I’m very intrigued indeed about the directions they’ll go in at the start of S2.

2. Oh, ah. It’s THAT conversation between Moiraine and Lan. Awkward.

Though, again, they’ve already covered part of this conversation in the show already -- Moiraine talks to Alanna about the idea that the Warder bond can possibly released, and then she spoke briefly to Lan essentially asking whether or not the bond chafed, now that there was something else in his life that he might choose to live for. The conversation went a different direction in the show than here, but it explored a similar topic, including showing that Moiraine is very aware of Lan and Nynaeve’s feelings for each other. But the tone of it is very different in the books, and Moiraine’s actions are a lot more destructive to her relationship with Lan. It would be kinda nice if Moiraine didn’t set her relationship with Lan on fire in the show, tbh. I think they can still get to the appropriate final destination without her choosing to do that.

3. I hope we get Adeleas and Vandene in the show! Moiraine still has stuff that she needs to research, so hopefully she will still go there to do her research.

4. We should get to see Nynaeve’s Accepted test, I believe, according to some casting spoilers that have floated about. Which is good! It’s a neat way to show us more about how ter’angreal can work, we can learn a lot about Nynaeve, and the show can use it to give viewers Lanaeve crumbs during a time when they won’t get to see each other in person.

I’m guessing the “for what was” section is what the casting spoiler is about -- since we didn’t have Aginor and Balthamel in the show, we’re going to get a look at a part of her past that is further back than that.

5. Elayne, my love! 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰 Finally! I was starting to feel like I would never see you again! (pg 360 btw)

6. Elayne and Egwene becoming insta-friends has a very Anne of Green Gables vibe to it.

7. I’m going to tentatively guess that we won’t get the corporal punishment aspect of the novice thing, since they removed Nynaeve switching people in S1. The only time they mentioned anything like that was what Moiraine talked about with Rand in episode 8, which was clearly an... extracurricular choice on the part of the Aes Sedai in question and not something we were supposed to approve of. But we will find out. Given the... identity of the person who does said punishments, there’s still a possibility of it being in the series, depending on what choices they decide to make.

8. And here’s Min! Elayne and Min have Talked About Rand off-screen already. I am curious about how all this will get portrayed in the show, since it was implied that Min was likely heading to Tar Valon, so we should still get her plotlines there with the Wondergirls, but we don’t know if the Rand connection will be there for Elayne yet.

9. So Min did just straight-up tell Elayne about sharing ‘her husband’ with two other women right away (though Elayne isn’t sure if she believes her at this point). So Elayne actually is given tons and tons of time to process the idea.

10. Wow, Galad’s crush on Egwene happened at light-speed. Literally during their initial introduction, he suggests they ~go out walking together~ sometime. Damn, boy. Calm down just a bit. Rein those horses back, just a smidge.

11. This chapter also reveals that Min knows she’s going to fall in love with Rand. She feels a lot more like a character, in her tiny PoV section at the end of this chapter, than she got to feel like in EotW, where she mostly came across as a plot device.

12. I hope we get Rand in Cairhien. It’s... great. I’m trying to think of how many cities they’ll need for S2 already tho. They already have Tar Valon/the White Tower, so they don’t need to build that set again new, at least. They’ll need to have built Falme. Cairhien is the only other Major Place that they would need to build for this specific story (if they aren’t doing the book three stuff yet which ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) and Rand’s stuff there is so good. So I hope we get Rand in Cairhien. I am trying to avoid too many spoilers, so I don’t plan on trying to find out early, but I do love his story there so much. It actually ties into what Moiraine says about Aniaya Sedai at the start of the book -- people assume she can’t really mean what she says, so they tie themselves in knots reading into her words and actions.

13. If we do get Cairhien & Foregate, that could be the ‘carnival’ that Min mentioned when Rand asked her what she saw when she looked at him.

14. Thom ‘returns from the dead’ here on page 381, so if we get Cairhien, that may be where he comes back into the story. I feel like they could skip the whole subplot with Dena and just... have Thom be willing to travel with Rand and help him out. That wouldn’t feel unbelievable at all for what we saw in the show. Again, if if if. But finding Thom alive just gives Rand such a huge burst of joy and it’s nice to see it. That could... hmm, Thom was majorly tied into the whole ‘we think Mat can channel’ new subplot that the show did, so I can see maybe Rand and Thom meeting up and trying to help save Mat from the Red Ajah once they (somehow???) find out about that? (new fic idea? Maybe a new fic idea. I will slot that one away to think about some more.)

#wot reread #wot #wheel of time #wot book spoilers #wot spoilers #wot casting spoilers

11 notes · View notes

markantonys · 8 months ago

Text

fuck it, proposing an s3 episode-by-episode structure even though we barely have any info to go off of, because i'm bored and yearning for s3 news. can't wait to see how wrong this ends up being! i can't emphasize enough how much this is just me completely inventing structure ideas because, for real, we barely know ANYTHING yet, so do not latch onto anything i say here.

we know 4 episode titles so far, so i've included those.

3x01: to race the shadow

A-plot: the gang in falme

lots of relationship-building between various dynamics, especially rand & elayne (just friendship with Crush Hints for now) and nynaeve & lan (ring scene maybe)

rand and egwene's final breakup

mat's luck established during a gambling scene

mat goes through the doorway in turak's room of curiosities, is told to go to tanchico, gets his marriage prophecy & medallion & ashandarei, and gets cpr from rand

elayne and nynaeve learn something about liandrin that points them towards tanchico

rand decides to go to the waste and egwene does too after speaking with amys in her dreams, and perrin goes with them because he has no other plans as of yet

B-plot: aes sedai politics, catch up with siuan, catch up with liandrin

3x02: a question of crimson

i'd always hoped this would be a caemlyn episode, and the title points to that imo!! perfect title for elaida's intro episode, and red is andor's color as well.

so, A-plot: rand, egwene, perrin, et al pass through caemlyn on their way to the waste

egwene has been tasked by elayne with delivering a letter to her family; rand insists on coming with her; they trespass in the caemlyn palace and meet gawyn, galad, morgase, and elaida

i don't expect a forsaken here just yet, i think it's important to see Normal Morgase and Normal Caemlyn first so that we have a contrast later once they ARE under forsaken control.

perrin hears rumors of trouble in the two rivers and decides to split off from the group to investigate, with loial, bain, and chiad accompanying him

the rest of the group reaches the waste at the end of the episode

B-plot: nynaeve, elayne, and mat arrive in tanchico (they split off from the others in falme and go straight there, no caemlyn trip for them)

C-plot: more white tower stuff

3x03

A-plot: rand in rhuidean + general intro to the waste (rand's focal episode)

B-plot: perrin arrives in the two rivers and gets situated

C-plot: continued tanchico shenanigans, maybe they run into thom and/or min and/or tuon (who is undercover for reasons) if they didn't already in 3x02. my guess is min has been kidnapped out of cairhien by liandrin, who knows min figured out she's black ajah and doesn't want her to snitch, so maybe at some point in the early episodes there's a plotline of mat, elayne, and nynaeve rescuing min from the black ajah, and after that point min joins their scooby gang (because she's got a personal vendetta against liandrin now and also she wants to re-earn mat's trust and prove herself).

an alleged leak puts mat, thom, and min all in tanchico, so that's why i have them in this plotline. it's also why i have tuon in this plotline, as i can't think of a strong reason to move mat from the waste to tanchico if not to incorporate elements of the ebou dar trip and have him meet tuon who is filling an egeanin-type role.

3x04

A-plot: nynaeve encounters moghedien in TAR and almost dies but is saved by birgitte, whom elayne saves by bonding her as a warder (this whole sequence is the midseason climax at the end of the episode)

mat gets into some kind of shenanigan with tuon and they grow closer, but neither knows the other's true identity

B-plot: elaida, gawyn, and galad reach the white tower and start investigating elayne's disappearance and clashing with siuan

C-plots: the waste gang doing their thing, learning about aiel ways, developing avirand, etc; perrin doing his thing in the two rivers, meeting faile if he hasn't already

i could also easily switch 3x03 and 3x04 so that 3x04 is the rhuidean episode. just depends if they throw rand right into it like TSR does or if we get a General Waste Intro episode before sending him off to rhuidean. but based on a combination of leaks, we do just about know that the glass columns visions are during block 2 (eps3/4).

3x05

A-plot: perrin in the two rivers, maybe digging more into the whitecloaks, padan fain, laila trauma, luc/slayer, wolves & TAR, relationship with faile, etc. (potentially his focal episode)

B-plot: cold rocks hold stuff for the waste gang

C-plot: continued tanchico shenanigans; continued white tower politics

3x06

A-plot: alcair dal, asmodean identity reveal & capture

B-plot: some kind of tanchico conclusion. maybe this is when tuon finds out some of her new buddies can channel (and possibly even that sul'dam, and she herself, can channel) and heads back to the seanchan with Much To Think About. maybe the black ajah make their exit from the season to shift full focus onto Final Boss Moggy.

C-plots: perrin prepping for battle; continued white tower politics

3x07: goldeneyes

A-plot: perrin defending the two rivers (perrin's focal episode, unless it's instead an earlier one that's less about a major battle and more about his internal life as a character)

B-plot: tower coup? i'm very unsure where in the season to place this, i could see it at any point in episodes 6, 7, or 8. kinda doubt it would happen earlier than ep6 because i'm not sure if that would allow us enough time to build up to it, especially since major coup players like elaida and gawyn are being introduced for the very first time this season so we need decent time with them before shit goes down (plus, it just naturally feels like a Late Season Climactic Event). the head writer of 1x06 & 2x07 (aes-sedai-heavy episodes) being the head writer of 3x08 could potentially indicate that the coup happens in 3x08, but she is also an executive producer so it's not like aes sedai politics is The Only Thing she knows about.

C-plots: the waste gang travels back to the wetlands, rand learns from asmodean; tanchico crew takes a sea folk ship to the eastern part of the continent (same city where waste gang is headed)

3x08: he who comes with the dawn

A-plot: the climax of the waste crew's plotline, potentially a battle in cairhien or tear, but that may cause Battle Fatigue if 3x07 has just had a big battle. maybe this could point towards their destination being tear and them taking the stone in somewhat more of an infiltration operation like in TDR, as opposed to the more traditional battle for cairhien in TFOH? just to mix things up a bit with perrin's traditional battle in the prior episode.

okay yeah i'm leaning towards tear, plus there was the leaked alleged sammael audition script (i trust no audition scripts after the phony gawyn one from s2 lmao) where the person he's talking to is demanding to know where "it" is. so my vision is that sammael's sitting comfy in tear, rand & co launch an infiltration operation to take the stone, rand finds sammael and demands to know callandor's whereabouts, and sammael ultimately flees to continue causing trouble in a new location in s4.

A-plot part 2: the tanchico crew gets involved with the infiltration operation, and nynaeve battles & defeats moghedien AND breaks her block (if she hasn't already, that could be a good Early Win to include around ep5-6 ish)

after all this stuff is done, there is a Final Final confrontation with moiraine and lanfear getting yeeted through the doorway; nynaeve bonds lan straightaway rather than his bond going on a noncon detour to alanna

post-battle checkin with perrin, but not a ton of time with him in this episode

final stinger: our buddy tuon from tanchico is shown dressed to the seanchan nines and being addressed as the daughter of the nine moons. gasp, mat's fated wife is our buddy tuon from tanchico, who is in fact a high-ranking seanchan noble! dun dun dun!!!!!

elephant in the room: "emily, why are you having rand in the wetlands for 3x08 when an episode called 'he who comes with the dawn' would obviously be about alcair dal?" listen, i know, but i typed up this whole post before i found out about that episode title and was too attached to it to change it lmao plus, i genuinely can't think of enough for rand & co to do in the waste for 6 entire episodes. i could see an argument that they chose this episode title as a general "yeah that's a baller title for a season finale about rand coming into his own in a big moment" rather than as a specific "this episode focuses on rand coming into his own in a strictly-aiel-related way" (see: 2x07 just being about general political shenanigans rather than literal daes dae'mar). rand pulling callandor from the stone while surrounded by his aiel followers could still be a "he who comes with the dawn" moment, okay!

so i will leave this post as is, but if indeed 3x08 only takes us up to alcair dal (and the moiraine & lanfear yeeting which i think will be this episode no matter what), that actually doesn't change my structure too much. basically it'd just be slowing down both the waste & tanchico crew's plotlines and having their climaxes be still in the waste & tanchico respectively, and then we can do a travel timeskip between seasons and have s4 open with the waste crew taking tear or cairhien and the tanchico crew meeting up with them there. i do strongly believe that mat, elayne, and nynaeve will join up with rand & co for s4 and skip their whole salidar/ebou dar detours, because that positions mat to form the band and have his Dragon's General storyline in s4, positions elayne to spend time with rand and aviendha and potentially join rand in retaking caemlyn and then just stay there to start her succession, and positions nynaeve to spend time with lan in the immediate aftermath of moiraine's "death" and then join up with elayne's or rand's future storyline. for these 3, salidar & ebou dar are filler sidequests rather than Main Story storylines imo and it could be quite efficient to cut those out and just distribute the handful of Main Story elements from them into other Main Story storylines.

#wot #wot book spoilers #wot show spoilers #half the fun of speculation is being able to see how completely wrong i was once the season actually comes out jkfgh

55 notes · View notes

markantonys · 2 months ago

Note

Speculation on any Randlayne and RandAvi interactions for s3?

my favorite topic of speculation!! everything i'm about to say i've probably said already because i love to just yap on about the same things i've said a thousand times jdkfgj and also because we still have so little s3 info that my speculation hasn't changed much in the year since s2 ended. but onwards!

so, given that they teed up a connection between rand & elayne at the end of 2x08 but that we know these two will be in different locations for most of s3, i'm certain they'll get some good interactions in during 3x01 before parting ways. nothing serious yet, just some friendship bonding and unconscious flirty vibes i.e. the audience is picking up that they're attracted to each other but neither of them is flirting on purpose or is aware that they're developing a crush. they'll likely only have one episode together before parting, plus rand is still reeling from the whole lanfear situationship, plus elayne's bestie is his ex-almost-fiancee (i'm sure the final randgwene breakup will happen pretty promptly in 3x01, but still, the audience would probably feel egwene's toes are being stepped on if her bestie starts kissing rand later in the very same episode), so those are all reasons against anything concrete happening this soon for randlayne.

the egwene complication is interesting to ponder! i COULD imagine a scenario where elayne genuinely does not know about rand & egwene's whole Thing for quite some time because everybody's too traumatized to bother giving her the in-depth gossip, and thus she develops a fast crush on rand while having no clue he's her bestie's ex (and then feels guilty when she inevitably finds out). on the other hand, i could imagine a book-esque version where egwene clocks that elayne is feeling some type of way about rand and is all like "hey if you're into rand that's cool with me, he and i are over" right upfront in 3x01, so that even if elayne doesn't act on it yet (which i doubt she would) she and the audience could rest easy in the knowledge that egwene would be okay with it. back to the first hand, i could imagine elayne and egwene not having this convo until a reunion sometime in a future season at which point elayne's like "i have a confession, i have a crush on your ex" and egwene's like "weeeeeeeeeeell i have a crush on your brother so let's call it even" djkjfgh

now for aviendha, i'm also fairly confident in predicting avilayne interaction(s) in 3x01 too, though how many and what nature, who knows! but it would be good to establish that elayne gets on well with both rand and aviendha to lay the groundwork for our polycule before she gets separated from both of them for the rest of the season, so i think the show will try to give her time with both of them in 3x01. again, i think it'd be friendship bonding vibes with at most little hints of a budding crush (which will probably go over straight viewers' heads lmao). book events make it very easy to give elayne and aviendha significant time together later in the story, so we can afford to take their relationship the slowest of the three. but rand's schedule is packed, so he's got to get romancing!

thus my prediction is: light randlayne & avilayne setup in 3x01, but avirand happens first, followed by randlayne, followed by avilayne (and min/rand). i do not think we'll fuck about with rand being in constant It's Complicated facebook relationship statuses with everyone and repeatedly getting together with someone but then kind of breaking up but then still sort of being together etc. instead, i think that nothing will have actually happened between randlayne yet when he heads off to the waste, and that avirand will become a permanent couple by late s3 or early s4, and that elayne will get added into their established relationship in s4ish, so we'll just go straight from couple to V (to throuple) without any stops in It's Complicated Land. we do not have time to mess around!

on this point, i think the show will let them be more intentional about forming their relationship. in the books, it's a combination of "rand has zero clue what's going on and winds up in a polycule by accident thanks to the power of miscommunication" and "fate said we had to do this, so let's do it" (followed by organic hey-i-now-genuinely-want-this-polycule development for elayne and avi, thankfully, but not for min). i'd expect the fate element to still be at play for min/rand because that's a unique aspect of their specific romance, given min's powers, but it doesn't need to be involved in avirandlayne and i'd prefer if it wasn't, so as not to overuse Prophecy Romance (which will also need to be an element of mat/tuon; 2 Prophecy Romances are plenty imo). if the three of them all meet and spark with each other, and if the first randmance to happen is the one with the partner from a poly-normalized culture who teaches him all about it, then we're perfectly set up for avirand to see elayne across the bar and dig her vibes and ask her to join. no narrative need for any of the three of them to be aware that their relationships are Fated! i'd like it very much if the show reserved that just to be the unique angle for min/rand, and treated avirandlayne just the same as any monogamous romance like lanaeve that develops naturally because they like each other.

moving on. i think avirand's romance arc will be fairly similar to the book version. enemies to lovers, forced to share a tent because the wise ones want her to teach him aiel ways and spy on him, push-and-pull tension as they both fight their attraction to each other, etc etc, it's all good stuff that just needs a little refinement for the show. i'd predict the biggest changes might be a) TSR-TFOH avirand development is condensed into one season so that their romance arc is complete by the end of s3, b) rand having had a serious relationship with lanfear might affect things (one of his reasons for fighting his attraction to aviendha, perhaps, to protect her from lanfear's jealousy and/or because he's feeling too shaken to let romance into his life again after such a betrayal), and c) aviendha's angst over Betraying Elayne won't be present since elayne isn't involved with him yet, and thus we get to steer well clear of any polyamory & cheating associations that the books flirt with way too much for my taste. or maybe it would be replaced by angst over Betraying Egwene, who is also aviendha's friend who's been involved with rand, but unlike with elayne in the books, egwene is fully done with rand AND is physically present with aviendha to be able to give her her blessing and absolve her of any guilt over liking rand. so either way, we'll avoid having betrayal as the foundation of avirand/avirandlayne, which will be a big improvement for me.

and aviendha and elayne can still have their relationship arc without the whole thing about aviendha wanting to meet her toh to elayne for sleeping with her boyfriend! instead, aviendha is solidly with rand but can see that there are some vibes going on between him and elayne, so she decides to become closer to elayne in hopes of taking her for a sister-wife. and then ends up taking her for a wife-wife <3 though i'd still predict a timeline where they're both dating rand first, and aviendha's like "since we're both dating rand, we need to get to know each other better to become first-sisters" and then their arc gets going.

now let's circle back to the timing. a potential new piece of speculation that i remember doing in a big tag ramble but maybe not in an actual post: jorin the sea folk windfinder's actress has the block 3 director listed on her CV. if this is accurate, that means the sea folk will be showing up in episode 5 and/or 6 - aka NOT showing up to transport elayne & nynaeve from falme to tanchico, because unless they spend the first half the season on a different plotline or a huge detour (which we have no reason to suspect as of now), they would be there already. so why would jorin be appearing that late in the season? do the girls meet her in the tanchico harbor and not travel with her? but them actually traveling on a sea folk ship is fairly significant since it's what lets them figure out that windfinders can channel. so, could the girls perhaps be taking a sea voyage in the second half of the season? say, chasing moghedien from tanchico over to the east coast whereupon they reunite with the waste crew? perhaps in tear for the stone battle, and sammael is introduced in tear at the end of the season and teed up to be one of the big antagonists of s4?

i know that with the finale title speculated to be "he who comes with the dawn" everyone's assuming alcair dal will be the s3 finale, just like it's the TSR finale. and i won't be surprised if that's the case. buuuuuuuut i also won't be surprised if "he who comes with the dawn" is used a little more loosely, as episode titles often are, and the finale is instead rand taking callandor at the stone - still a big Rand Proclaiming Himself moment in which aiel are involved, even if it isn't his literal he who comes with the dawn car'a'carn proclamation. on the other hand, we can feel pretty certain that moiraine v. lanfear mutual doorway yeeting will occur in the season finale, so it might make more sense to have them still be in the waste and fold that into rand's rhuidean showdown, rather than following the book route of carting the doorway back to the wetlands with them. but then, if it's true that mat isn't in the waste plotline, then would there even BE a redstone doorway in rhuidean?? could they just plonk one down in whatever location they want the moiraine v. lanfear showdown to be? i don't know, there's just way too many variables for me to be able to make any solid predictions for how the end of the season might shape up, and i'm getting way off topic anyway haha

SO tldr, jorin in block 3 makes me wonder if elayne could potentially get ferried over to reunite with rand and aviendha towards the end of s3, rather than not until s4. but regardless, i do think she will reunite with them after her tanchico stuff is complete. imo elayne and nynaeve don't need to go to salidar (all that happens there is nynaeve encounters siuan & logain and heals gentling/stilling, which could happen anywhere, and that egwene raises them to full sisters which could happen in absentia or later in the story), and i'm sorry to the circus fans but it's complete filler so that's definitely not happening, and if mat does indeed go with the girls to tanchico then i strongly suspect it would be an amalgamation with the ebou dar trip and thus that would be removed from the girls' future schedules, and THUS elayne and nynaeve could join up with the waste crew in s4 and spend some quality time with all those characters, join rand for the "retaking caemlyn from a forsaken" outing, and then launch straight into their caemlyn storylines (and/or nynaeve launch straight into the cleansing storyline with rand). and this would fit with comments rafe/josha/ceara (i forget exactly who) have made about rand and elayne having a big story together; if you're not trying to arbitrarily keep elayne away from rand so that he can remain Single On A Miscommunication-Induced Technicality long enough to hook up with min, then it's an absolute no-brainer for them to share the Retaking Caemlyn storyline. so i feel optimistic in predicting that for s4!

#anonymous #answered #wot book spoilers #wot s3 speculation

30 notes · View notes

markantonys · 1 year ago

Text

episode 5 thoughts!

heartbroken by no mat, but i was expecting it since min wasn't credited for this episode on imdb, and there was so much other amazing stuff going on, so i can cope. i do think they must be gearing up for a mat-heavy episode soon because his content has been so sparse thus far! we also didn't have lan this episode, which i'm good with since he got so much last week.

(minor imdb casting spoiler: ayoola isn't listed for ep6, so i'm guessing we may have no perrin next week. they definitely do have a lot of different groups to juggle! but IF mat & lan soon join the cairhien crew, we could condense things)

also sad at not much elayne, but again, the remaining episodes will probably be pretty big for her! same with egwene, that storyline didn't progress as fast as i'd thought it would in this episode, but OOF the preview for next week looks like A Lot!!

back to the beginning! falme looks SO COOL!!! and the opening scene with the seanchan was fantastic, it showed off so many different aspects of their culture in just a few minutes (namely their various Ceremonial Things and ideas of who's allowed to speak to whom)

lanfear just whispering "bitch" the second she revives killed me djkfjg what an icon. and we get confirmation that it is indeed the True Power that she used to revive herself.

Lanfear Unleashed is SO much fun oh my god, i love seeing her in full forsaken mode

moiraine telling rand that he can't sleep because lanfear will get him, girl don't tell him that he's going to internalize it and not sleep for the next 6 seasons. this season is really Wheel Of Time Origins: Rand's Various Emotional, Mental, and Physical Health Problems

elyas saying the ef5 aren't perrin's pack HOW DARE!!! i feel like they're making elyas even more standoffish/human-averse than he was in the books, which makes for an interesting dynamic and contributes to perrin's sense that his human & wolf sides can't coexist.

but hopper follows perrin!!!! the goodest boy!!!!!

AVIENDHA IS HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHE'S EVERYTHING!!!!! although ngl her fake accent does sound a bit Fake to me lmao but i'm sure i'll get used to it after a few more scenes

hot dain bornhald is also here! he kinda compels me and i'm furious about it. if whitecloak why hot? in all seriousness, i can see already from his intro episode + the basics of his book story that he has the potential to be quite an interesting character if fleshed out more and given more screentime compared to what he had in the books, sort of a liandrin-and-alanna-like Main Secondary Whitecloak for us to follow

also he totally wants to fuck perrin you can't change my mind. buying him drinks and giving him a Cute Nickname, boy you ain't subtle! and then aviendha briefly hits on perrin later and also perrin stops her from killing dain. wake up babe, insane new WOT polycule just dropped djkfjfg

OB!!!! FREAKING!!!! SESSED!!!!!!!! with verin's detective subplot!!!! it is SO much fun, it delivers a ton of great exposition (namely about the black ajah), and it gives us a bigger peek into the brown ajah than the books ever did. i love this squad!! also katie leung was probably my first Girl Crush (not that i was aware of it) when i was like 8 so i was thrilled to see her show up here, god bless

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IT GAVE US CONFIRMATION THAT GAWYN EXISTS IN SHOWVERSE!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH when i tell you i came extremely close both to screaming and to falling off my bed!!!! i'd been hoping for a gawyn namedrop all season but having it here was SO unexpected! my current theory is that he'll be introduced in caemlyn next season along with elaida and galad, and all 3 of them will head to tar valon to look for elayne because they're worried after not hearing from her for a long time.

also now i want a fic where the wondergirls actually do get special permission from mommy morgase to leave the tower just so that they can attend gawyn's birthday party

anyway, someday gawyn and egwene are going to kiss with tongue onscreen and haters can die mad about it <3 oooh now i have a brand-new meetcute for them to look forward to since they didn't meet at the tower!

liandrin & nynaeve's convo in the ways was so good! they continue to do amazing work with that relationship and liandrin's character. AND WHEN SHE SUBTLY FREED THE GIRLS RIGHT BEFORE LEAVING HOLY SHIT i gasped!!!!! the LAYERS they have given this character!!! because yes she serves the dark BUT she still feels loyalty to her sisters (as seen in s1 too when she appeared genuinely upset over kerene's death) and can't stomach the thought of any of them, even the light-serving ones, being collared!

suroth saying with her whole chest "oh sure you're a forsaken but you're not even of the blood soooooo" god grant me her confidence. also another great illustration of the insane heights to which seanchan high blood take their superiority complexes. good god, what's tuon gonna be like?!

avi's fight scene was just as amazing as i'd been hoping and expecting!! 10/10 no notes. can't wait to see what she can do when she has weapons at her disposal!

and later avi tells us that she is out in the wetlands Looking For Her Man (that she doesn't yet know is Her Man) <33

moiraine saying "get rand some nice new clothes" and barthanes immediately offering to dress him, Sugar Baby Rand lives on! also, anvaere and barthanes definitely thought rand was moiraine's sugar baby after they cleared the warder possibility, you can't change my mind

also also, barthanes is so surprisingly sweet! i wonder if he'll still be a darkfriend, or if anvaere will be instead

lanfear making ishy dream about caressing rand's face in bed is something i will go insane thinking about every day until i die. like oh my god i don't even know where to START with unpacking that, so i won't even try djfkjg

like for real, they ALL BUT made it explicitly canon that ishy had/has a crush on LTT/rand LMAO it's what we deserve

and we get forsaken namedrops! moghedien, graendal, and "the boys." it could be that semirhage did still make it and lanfear just chose not to go on and on listing every single one (slash the writers wanted to give themselves some leeway in specifically naming forsaken in case they don't get enough seasons to deal with all of them), or it could be that one of the statues from last season was actually a man and/or stepin's statues aren't accurate, and we've got 5 men instead of 4 (in which case i'd imagine ishy, asmodean, sammael, demandred, and rahvin)

i'm gonna have to watch this ishy & lanfear scene again to pick up more because i was FAR too distracted by the initial homoeroticism to keep focusing lmao

aww i'm kinda sad not to get elayne & nynaeve hiding out in falme completely on their own, but for their sakes it's nice they've found (been found by) some Real Adults to help!

LANFEAR'S OUTFIT IN THE END SCENE LMAO this season really just went off the WALLS with horniness and kinkiness, and i am here for it. it's what rj would've wanted

now that moiraine and rand are indeed staying in cairhien after all, i really think we might get a cauthor reunion next episode!!!! fingers crossed!!!!

#wot #wot on prime #wot show spoilers #wot book spoilers #the wheel of time

116 notes · View notes

markantonys · 3 years ago

Text

acos chapters 30-end: ebou dar crew

“elayne had not been so glad to see anyone since...since mat cauthon appeared in the stone of tear. a horrendous thought.” I SCREAMED AT THIS matlayne rights!!!! elayne and mat have the hugest crushes on each other and are so mad about it! this is an enemies to lovers goldmine, and it was wasted! if rj had been more open to the idea of men sharing a woman instead of only women sharing a man (we do see myrelle and sort of sevanna having multiple men but both of those are framed as Bad And Scandalous), i truly believe mat and rand might have both dated elayne. the chemistry is there, and i swear they think about each other differently than, for example, mat and nynaeve think about each other (mat’s constantly thinking about elayne’s sun hair and dimples and how pretty she is, and elayne is doing a lot more internal acknowledging of mat being Maybe Okay Actually than nynaeve has in this book). and especially when you consider **future book spoiler i’m not supposed to know yet but do** that mat literally does end up in an “oh no i hate nobles but i’m falling for one” romance that, in my opinion which is based on my vague spoiler knowledge since i haven’t actually read a word of that romance yet, is just a walmart version of the gucci that is matlayne. we could’ve had it all dammit!!

also, i 100% adore randlayne, but i’m hollering extra about the fact that elayne was also reunited with rand and made out with him a bunch of times since mat appeared at the stone, but does not count THAT as the gladdest she’s ever been to see someone jkfjgh (i know this line is just in the context of being rescued from a tense situation but let me have this)

elayne asserting her dominance with the other aes sedai in ebou dar!! i say that’s my baby queen and i’m really proud!!

when the aes sedai are now looking to elayne to make decisions: “all she had wanted was for them to admit she really was aes sedai. she fought a momentary urge to protest that she was too young, too inexperienced.” these characters are all just babies having to save the world :(((

i forgot to mention in a previous chapter but my heart burst over aviendha taking off rand’s bracelet and refusing to wear it until elayne had one too, and now nynaeve recalls asking aviendha to borrow the bracelet: “aviendha had snatched it to her bosom as if it was her most precious possession, and of all things, elayne began comforting her. nynaeve would not have been surprised to see the pair fall weeping on one another’s shoulders.” MY HEART!!!! elayne/avi/rand triad is literally so good and sensible and natural, we don’t need romantic min/rand at all, that relationship is seriously starting to feel extraneous

“there was something odd going on there, and if she had not known those two were too sensible for such nonsense, she would have suspected a man at the root of it.” Bi And Poly Behavior Baffles Local Monogamous Heterosexual

nynaeve gets unblocked!!!!!!!! i’m so proud of her!!!!

lanaeve reunion!! in the form of lan rescuing nynaeve from drowning and her immediately puking her guts out right at his feet. i love them so much.

ok i have to take that back because nynaeve just slapped and punched lan a bunch of times after finding out myrelle got his bond 🙄 once again i am asking for wot women to stop beating up their boyfriends, good god!

but once lan explains and nynaeve realizes how dead inside he looks, she becomes more understanding, thankfully. “with an effort, she moderated her tone; he was ill, and harsh words never helped sickness.” mental illness being acknowledged by a character who isn’t experiencing it personally, in MY wheel of time? it’s more likely than you think! woohoo!

awww nynaeve makes lan laugh for the first time since moiraine “died” ❤️❤️ “you will be my warder, and my husband, for a very long time. i will not let you die. do you understand that? i can be as stubborn as i have to be.” nynaeve really said i’m gonna fight god and win for this man 😤❤️ tho i do feel that this is all pretty rushed and that lan is not in a good mental or emotional place to commit to a marriage right now, but whatever, i learned long ago that i have to try my best to suspend disbelief when it comes to wot romances. and i suppose that in a world approaching the last battle, there’s no point waiting for “the right time” to marry someone you love.

i already made a post about this when i first read it but i have to discuss it here too: one of the kin mistook mat for elayne’s warder and i screamed!!!! this is literally so mean!!!! at this point we have had 1) mat’s thoughts about how hard it is to keep elayne out of trouble getting interrupted by someone asking if he’s ever thought about becoming a warder, 2) mat in salidar receiving multiple offers to become someone’s warder, 3) mat spending an entire book and a half fretting about elayne’s safety (actually two and a half counting the old days of tdr), and now 4) mat straight up being mistaken for elayne’s warder. WHAT is the POINT!! why would you do this to me! what’s this all been about! add “mat as elayne’s warder” to “elayne/avi/rand triad” and “mat and rand both dating elayne” on the list of “things that are literally so obvious and perfect yet inexplicably do not happen”

leaving the palace, mat is jumpy and afraid that tylin might spring out at him from anywhere. he mentions that she had half a dozen servants seize him in the hall the night before and drag him to her rooms and also that she used his scarf to tie his hands up “before he knew what she was doing,” says that she treats him like a toy and that she makes him feel helpless and has him “ready to jump out of his skin,” feels “strangled” and “frantic” at the thought of staying half a week longer in ebou dar, thinks that he would rather face MOGHEDIEN than tylin, and again feels like he’s about to cry. not much to say about this that i didn’t say in the post about the last chunk of chapters, but my heart is breaking :((( “against tylin, he had no more [protection] than he did against the daughter of the bloody nine moons, whoever she was” fuck this, i am picking mat up and gently setting him down into the polycule! THAT’S the romantic future he deserves!

in happier news, elayne is dressed ridiculously fancy to for a trip to the seedy part of town in which they’re hoping not to attract attention, and i love her very much. mat says that the embroidery on her dress is “thickly emphasizing the oval that exposed half her bosom” he is shook by The Titties, as aviendha was in a previous chapter. he proceeds to say that elayne has a pretty face and to mention AGAIN her dimple which he claims she always expects to work as a method of persuasion. mat is literally the uno meme “stop thinking about elayne’s dimple or draw 25″

“one thing he had to give her; she was too smart to go on with what obviously would not work” all i got out of this is that mat thinks elayne is smart 😌

mat says “i know rand’s afraid you [lan] are [dead]” mat is aware of at least one (1) of rand’s feelings! cauthor crumb!

lan and nynaeve were married by the sea folk last night! i’m crushed that it happened offscreen, i want to know about sea folk marriage customs! i love marriage customs! and weddings! and love! mat being math lady meme about lan and nynaeve being married is killing me jkfgh

mat tells elayne the truth about tylin and she laughs at him and calls it “a taste of his own medicine.” yiiiiiiiiikes. yikes!!!!! this is definitely elayne’s Worst Moment in the series so far. to her credit she does apologize a page later and offer to help him with tylin (though more because she realized “hey, mat’s being nice to me, i should be nice to him too” than because she realized “hey, rape is bad”). however, it is quite clear that the author doesn’t take mat’s situation seriously, so if the author doesn’t take it seriously, how can i expect a character to? and i’m calling ooc behavior as well, elayne “goes crazy trying to help anyone who shows the slightest sign of distress” trakand wouldn’t react like that to mat’s distress no matter how annoying she found him, that’s not her heart.

when a character does something shitty, if it’s a character i don’t like it’s their fault, but if it’s my fav it’s the author’s fault. hope that clears things up <3

but we have passed what i do believe is the worst matlayne moment of the series (i’m glad i knew about this ahead of time or i would’ve been a lot madder - at rj not elayne, of course) so we can move on to their sweet moments

mat tries to give elayne the foxhead for protection against moghedien!!! 🥺🥺😭😭🥰🥰 like, this is HUGE! we know how scared mat is of channeling even from channelers he’s friendly with, let alone from a forsaken, and how tightly he clings to the foxhead and depends on it for his safety. and yet, he decides elayne’s safety is more important to him! i have a moment in a wip fic where mat gives rand the foxhead and it’s a major gesture of love (god knows when that fic will see the light of day (it’s part 4 of my putting mat in the polycule series and part 3 isn’t even done yet) so forget you read that), so imagine my pure joy when that Actually Happened in the book with elayne!!

“she was tall for a woman, but she still had to look up at him. she might never have seen him before.” 1) every time elayne’s height is mentioned i feel like i’ve been punched in the face. she’s even worse than mat when it comes to giving off short energy. she is literally 5′2″ in my mind, what do you MEAN she’s tall? i’ll never give up my mental image of short queen elayne and short king mat + actual giants rand and aviendha. i know aviendha could pick mat up and bridal carry him, i know this for a fact (granted she probably could do that even if he WAS taller than her - which he certainly is not - because she is very strong. oh my god imagine aviendha giving mat piggyback rides!!! i have to lie down.) 2) “character A looking at character B like they’ve never seen them before” is a common wot phrase and every single time it makes me think Realizing Romantic Feelings and i go feral. i vividly remember an instance of mat looking at rand like he’d never seen him before.

“elayne reached up to pull his hat off and slip the cord over his had. she actually tucked the foxhead into his shirt and patted it before handing him his hat.” 🥰🥰🥰🥰

mat: “i made a promise too; i promised to keep the pair of you alive.” elayne: “you wear it. after all, you can hardly keep your promise if moghedien kills you.” 🥺🥺🥰🥰

elayne tells mat he must be careful! she cares about him!!!! “sometimes i forget my duty to my subjects. you are a worthy subject, matrim cauthon.” oh my god elayne just admit you have a crush on him, would you?

i realize i’m just typing out this entire scene wholesale but i’m having EMOTIONS

elayne learning new swears from mat jksjdf i love her i love them

elayne: fuck!

nynaeve: [gasps]

mat: where the fuck did she learn that?!

“she understood? she understood, and not one acid little comment, not one cutting remark? and he was her subject. her worthy subject.” why do i feel like, despite all his harping on about not respecting nobility and not considering himself a subject andor, mat went 😳 when elayne called him her worthy subject. ohohoho he secretly has a Queen Elayne kink, doesn’t he? just like rand “light help me i did want to kneel and worship her” al’thor

"sobriety. light, what a word to apply to mat cauthon! tylin must be scaring him more than he thought, if he was shriveling up this way.” hmm is THIS the intended purpose of the tylin thing? to traumatize mat into wanting a quieter, more settled life, so that he’s nice and tamed for his future wife to scoop him up? 😒 i like the greater maturity and sense of responsibility he’s starting to show, trying to keep the peace with the girls and keep his promises to them and protecting elayne from danger and feeling responsible for the band members’ safety, but it doesn’t have to come at the expense of his joie de vivre :(

“mat would have [followed elayne] if nynaeve and lan had not been in his way...he deserved to be there, at least, when this fabulous bloody bowl was uncovered.” we both know that the real reason is that you want to keep close to elayne. because you’re her warder. or SHOULD HAVE BEEN IF THERE WAS ANY JUSTICE IN THE WORLD i will literally never get over this.

mat trying to get to the stairs while nynaeve and lan are arguing is the “can i please get a waffle” vine

and now, we reach it. the best matlayne scene of all time, the highlight of the entire book, and one of my favorite scenes in the whole series to date!

“his eyes went from janira’s crumpled corpse to elayne. he had promised to keep her safe for rand. he had promised. with a cry, he launched himself at the killer, ashandarei extended.” i screamed enough over this on first read, but then on the next page mat mentions something about avenging elayne and i realized: he thinks she’s dead right now. he comes into the room, sees “dead” elayne and the guy who killed her, thinks it’s too late to do anything to help her, yet, rather than turning and running to save himself since there’s nothing actually helpful he can do here, he stays to fight the killer PURELY to avenge her. because he promised rand he would keep her safe and thinks that she died on his watch. i am not okay!!!!

and of COURSE i have to scream about the matrandlayne-ness of it all!!! even if the 3 of them are never in a scene all together at any point in the series (but maybe they will be? maybe??? i’m not holding my breath tho) we’ll always have “he had promised to keep her safe for rand.” if you showed me that line and erased all my memories of this book and of every matrandlayne fic i’ve read or written and asked me if i thought that line came from canon or from a fic, i 100% would’ve thought it was the fic. AAAHHH it’s just so much!!! i want that line tattooed on my forehead!!!

“‘you can’t have her,’ he said loudly. promises. ... ‘you can’t bloody have her.’ he started forward, keeping the medallion spinning. the first step was the hardest, but he had a promise to keep.” LITERALLY THE MOST ICONIC LINE EVER so far my top 2 most romantic lines in all of wot are matlayne “you can’t bloody have her” and cauthor “i won’t leave you, i won’t leave you no matter what.” romance peaked with those two lines. and the fact that mat again has his promise to rand in mind here, it’s SO matrandlayne i can’t. i can’t!!!!! the first step was the hardest but he had a promise to keep 😤😭🥺🥰

addition bc i just noticed something else: after the fight, elayne wakes up and calls mat’s name and mat hurries to her side and tells us “there was shouting from somewhere below, but nynaeve and the rest would have to take care of themselves for the moment” elayne is his #1 priority!!!

“her eyes latched onto his, and if he had ever thought she looked at him as if he were a stranger, he saw it for true now.” 📣📣📣📣 USING THIS PHRASE AGAINST ME AGAIN!!! this would’ve been the PERFECT moment for a Big Damn Kiss™!!!

“she drew a breath that did interesting things to that oval cut-out.” even in the immediate aftermath of them both almost dying, mat is shook by The Titties. me too mat.

“‘thank you, mat. i apologize for everything i ever did or thought.’ she sounded as though she really meant it. ‘i keep building up toh toward you,’ she smiled ruefully, ‘but i am not going to let you beat me. you are going to have to let me save you at least once to balance matters.’ ‘i’ll see what i can arrange,’ he said dryly.” elayne ❤️❤️❤️ she might be stubborn, but she admits when she’s wrong (so fuck you to all the elayne haters who use her being mean to mat as a reason to hate her - she apologizes! very genuinely!). i fully support a future scenario where mat is a damsel in distress and elayne rescues him. gimme!!

“[birgitte] was the source of everything he knew about gholam...and he would not have revealed that on a hot grill.” i love their friendship SO much 🥺 such a shame that mat had so much wonderful relationship development with various people this book and was then immediately sent away from all of them for, i’m guessing, the majority of the remainder of the series

mat describes elayne’s eyes as “cool pools of deep blue water” add that to the list of “very platonic metaphors mat has for describing elayne’s appearance.” like, can you IMAGINE him describing nynaeve or egwene or birgitte as having hair like the sun and eyes like cool pools of deep blue water? (well nynaeve and egwene don’t look like that but you get the point)

“were they trying to get back at him? was it just a case of ‘mat wants to be in charge so much, let him see how well he can do without us’? he might have believed it of nynaeve, any time but this anyway, but not of elayne, not anymore.” GROWTH!! and mat confirms a little later that he is now “in elayne’s good books.” this was one of the central relationships of the book, i honestly think they got more pagetime and development than lan & nynaeve and aviendha & elayne, and possibly even rand & min

and one last mention by mat of elayne’s dimple, god bless. the man is obsessed.

“elayne, though, just murmured ‘a most observant subject’ in tones of rueful amusement.” queen and subject roleplay is totally gonna become a kink thing for them, i just know it.

mat tells tylin he’s going to miss her and thinks to himself that it’s true??? what THE fuck!!!!!!!!!! i don’t want to spoil my matlayne euphoria so i am simply not going to think about this. but note my list at the beginning of this post, which are mat’s most recent feelings about tylin before this point, and observe the SUDDEN, WILD, AND UNREALISTIC change of heart.

tylin pinches mat’s ass in front of the 4 girls, to his embarrassment, and while aviendha and birgitte both laugh at him (😒), elayne has an expression of “commiseration” and nynaeve of “glowering disapproval,” and tylin says that nynaeve thinks mat is a little boy needing protection. so elayne and nynaeve did at least make an effort to intervene with her on his behalf, okay, that’s a step in the right direction!

and the reason mat gets separated from the gang for, i believe, the next several books is because olver left the palace to go wander the city and mat tells the girls to make their gateway and leave and he’ll meet them at the farm later. DAMMIT OLVER!!! friendship ended with olver! how could you do this to mat and more importantly to me! i know it’s not your fault but i’m literally so devastated at the prospect of how long it’ll be before mat sees any of the gang again. matlayne was the only thing that kept me going past the cauthor separation in the last book, but what do i have to look forward to now? at least there will likely be more avilayne next book, and they’ll reunite with rand soon (book 9 i think?), and i THINK mat sees elayne again a book or two before book 14 (which will have the cauthor reunion), so i suppose i’ve got my little crumbs, my little carrot on a stick leading me to get through each subsequent book. the great thing about wot multishipping is that if one of your ships is separated you’ll likely have another spending time together in the meantime! still, i’ve said it before and i’ll say it again, the characters and their relationships with each other are the heart of this series to me and i lose more interest the more split up everyone gets.

for the show i’m instituting a ta’veren buddy system and declaring that no ta’veren should be allowed to go anywhere without being accompanied by at least one other ta’veren (this is counting egwene and nynaeve since they’re ta’veren in the show and should’ve been in the books. anon who told me after i finished book 1 that i would come to see that it’s empowering for the girls to influence stuff by choice instead of by ta’veren-ness, i do NOT see that and i still think they should’ve been ta’veren.)

nobody expects the seanchan invasion! except me because i’d been spoiled. much as i wish this wasn’t happening, it’s certainly a cinematic scene imagining mat running through the war-torn streets desperately shouting for his son. one of those moments i can perfectly see a tv adaptation of in my head. also, these whole last few pages i found myself with the seanchan section of “from the west” stuck in my head, which is how you know it’s a good Villain Theme Tune.

mat gets crushed by a falling wall, the evil foil to my beloved wall in the caemlyn garden, and that’s the last we’ll see of him until the book AFTER next book, much to my devastation.

#wot #wot book spoilers #matlayne

42 notes · View notes