#dmetabj

[jockvillagersonly]

I was just wondering a thing

In dmbj universe, people stay in wild of far away or in tombs for days. While staying there how women and trans people deal with their periods? Like whole tomb raiding shenanigans can't be scheduled with taking care of everyone's periods nor can they text periods to come later.

[emerges from my hiatus coffin Nosferatu style because it’s time to talk about GENDER]

Ok first thanks this is SUCH a good question. If NPSS wasn’t like, so aggressively a cis man we might have a canon answer, but as it is I’m gonna extrapolate from real life and make some guesses!!

My first instinct would be to look at how people with periods cope with long distance, multi-day trekking today. This website touches on a few practices I think tomb raiders with periods would probably also use: (1) keeping used sanitary items in Ziplock bags for later disposal, and (2) using unscented baby wipes and hand sanitizer for sanitation

It’s also possible modern tomb raiders with periods use birth control, whether or not they’re worried about pregnancy, for assistance in regulating / moderating their flows + hormonal shifts

For folks in the Mystic Nine era (1933), things would definitely look different! In the late 1920s, there were some pads available, so it’s definitely possible tomb raiders with periods in the late ‘20s were using pads. If they were, they likely used Kotex disposable pads, which were quite popular at the time (though far from perfect), and were being advertised in China as early as 1928. Keep in mind, though, that self-adhesive pads weren’t around until the 1970s; to wear a pad, a person with a period would also need to wear a ~sanitary belt~ or other clothing item designed to hold the pad in place. Annoying, but probably better than a just bleeding everywhere?

More under the cut, since I had a lot to say I guess!

Alternatively, 1920s-30s folks might have used / repurposed surgical gauze; many early pads — including those Kotex ones — came from wartime advancements in surgical gauze in WW1. Plus, a tomb raiding team would be sure to have a significant supply of surgical gauze on hand! Obviously, this wouldn’t be super comfortable (if you’ve ever stuff toilet paper in your underwear as a makeshift pad, it sucks), but it might be more flexible — a noted and necessary benefit for a tomb raider, whereas the Kotex pads were known to be cumbersome.

However, as the articles cited touch on, many of these pads were problematic in one way or another — reusable ones were annoying to clean; disposable ones were inflexible, burdensome, or not sturdy. All of that sounds problematic for a tomb raider on the go; it would probably behoove a tomb raider with a period to plan, as much as possible, for their period to arrive before they enter the tomb, when disposal / care of used sanitary products will be more convenient. This could, of course, be problematic if you were trans and not out or otherwise hiding the existence of your period; while Chinese attitudes were starting to open up towards periods in the late 20s, there was still a long legacy of periods as being deeply, inherently private — which would make openly planning around your period difficult, especially in a predominantly cis male setting.

The first commercially successful tampon was marketed in 1931, so it’s definitely possible our Mystic Nine era folks were using tampons. However, I’m gonna say it is probably unlikely, and similarly unlikely for our later Paracel Islands team and South Sea King team; according to consumer polls, tampons are not the preferred sanitation product choice in China today. A cursory Google search didn’t turn up much on advertisements for tampons in China in the 1930s, either. Similarly, while a rubber cup (think today’s diva cup) was invented in the early ‘30s, it wasn’t a commercial success; I couldn’t say for sure if it was even marketed in China at the time. Another unlikely choice, though for modern tomb raiders it would have the benefit of not producing non-bio waste?

For folks prior to the ‘20s (or folks using more traditional methods), I wasn’t totally able to verify if this is accurate but a few websites mentioned that parts of ancient China would wrap sand or fiber in cloth; when the “pad” soaked through, they would toss the filling and wash the cloth. This might be slightly more functional in a tomb setting (“don’t mind me, just gonna toss my period sand over in the corner here thanks”), though I’m not sure how disposal would intersect with traditional / Confucian norms around yin and yang energy, which we see discussed in DMBJ as part of tomb raising “etiquette” or sense

Tangentially Related:

NPSS originally conceptualized XG as a (presumably cis) girl, apparently, which: would her period blood have typical Zhang powers? Also, would the Zhang clan be a matriarchy OR would the title of clan head be non-gendered OR would the Zhang clan be patriarchal and she would be an exception? How would her gender figure into her being chosen as the replacement mythical baby, and/or her having to (unwillingly, admittedly) scrounge together the shattering, fragmented remnants of a clan collapsing in on itself? 

We’re talking early 1900s — how strong would she have to be to rally even the small amount of main line Zhangs that canonically have XG as their patriarch? Would her gender be weaponized against her, or seen as “proof” of her illegitimacy? If the Zhangs were inherently a patriarchal clan, would she be othered from her gender in the same way XG is (presumably) othered from his Tibetan heritage (acting under the assumption that XG’s mom is not Han Chinese living in Tibet; I haven’t read Tibetan Sea Flowers, so feel free to correct me if I’m wrong!)?

[s1utspeare]

DID SOMEONE SAY BODY LANGUAGE COMPARISON???

I heard the sweet, dulcet tones of acting meta on this post and could not resist her call, so @xcziel, @foxofninetales, this one is for you.

THE LIU CHANG DMBJ CHARACTER META: WANG CAN vs LIU SANG

So first of all lemme just say I love these bitches, and what’s interesting about Liu Chang is that he plays them on opposite ends. There’s not much he can do about the fact that, y’know, he’s the same-ass person, but there are some very distinct differences between Liu Sang and Wang Can, which we will be talking about now.

Liu Sang photo cred: @foxofninetales

Wang Can photo cred: @xcziel

Jiang Wu photo cred: me screenshotting @xia-xueyi’s Moonfall Echo subs (ep. 13)

PART ONE: BODY LINES

I’ve talked about body lines before! But now we get to look at it from the same actor in two different characters! As a recap, straight lines are strong, sturdy, confident, and straightforward; curved lines are weaker, but more interesting and more dynamic.

For example!!

We got our bitch Wang Can here!! This is our first look at this slimy man, and look! He’s like a square!!! All straight lines, all ups and downs. Him body a square!! The costume people also do a great job of boxing him up bc of the tailoring of his jacket, and the two neutral color palette. There’s no embellishments, no decor. This is a straightforward man!! He’s not hiding anything except exactly how much of a bitch he is

(Also notice that his hands are showing and in fists. This will be important in a minute.)

Next, we have our favorite boy Liu Sang, showing up for the first time (ignore the differences in angles):

Oho! He’s a curvy motherfucker!! Aside from the fact that his clothes are now tailored correctly to demonstrate his natural curves, this mans is also curving himself! His arms! Are loose! And bent!! His head and neck aren’t nearly as emphasized! And! AND!!!! His hands are in his fucjing POCKEEETTTSSS. That indicates FURTIVENESS! That indicates MYSTERY! We’re going to find some things OUT about this boy and we’re gonna like it!!!

In comparison, look at Jiang Wu:

LIU CHANG U BEAUTIFUL BITCH. He fucking BENT HIS ARM. He kept one straight and BENT THE OTHER!!! Oh joyous occasion!! We have a DYNAMIC BOY!! but not too dynamic—peep that hidden hand! Also I love this bc it was TWO DIFFERENT LIU CHANG CHARACTERS IN THE SAME SHOW!!! :D see!! Here’s Liu Sang again!

THIS IS A CONFIDENT LIU SANG!!!! He is CHANGED! He is capable of expressing emotions now! Look at just how much body language he has going on, while in comparison, Jiang Wu and Wang Can are like creepy Wood Baby Puppets. His body shape is boxy again, but that’s bc he’s the protagonist of this one. The plot hinges on him, he’s gotta be sturdy.

WHAT WE HAVE DETERMINED SO FAR:

Wang Can is straight lines, no hidden agenda (which is funny cause he’s a Bad Guy)

Liu Sang is dynamic lines and movement, and alludes to mysterious ✨secrets✨

Jiang Wu is a mix of the two and also a dumb dork (that’s not from the body language, I just think he’s funny)

PART TWO: HAIR, BABY!

Once again I owe my life to costuming people. Someday I’ll write that Mystic Nine costuming meta but today we’re focusing on Liu Chang and, specifically, his HAIR PEOPLE!!! I love them and would die for them literally

Once again, ladies and gentlemen and all my glorious they/thems, Wang Can:

OOOOOH I hate his slimy RAT FACE lemme AT EM. Ahem. Regardless, let’s take a look at this BITCH, shall we? We have: straight line face angles!! Very standard shape, BUT this is all accented by the fact that his hair is S C R A P E D back to within an inch of its life, like. Ahem. Sir. Please. Also this man’s got CONTOUR on. If u look at literally any pics/videos of Liu Chang out of character he is NOT this angular. His head is just as rectangular as his body, and the pulled back hair emphasizes his face, which is interesting as he doesn’t do a whole lot with it.

Alternatively, Liu Sang:

This is a nice boy!!! This is a nice soft boy!!! Look his face has CURVES that are emphasized by the glasses (which also draw attention to his eyes, which is good bc that’s where he does the most work, which we’ll get to later) and the HAIR!!! His hair is soft!! It’s flowy! It’s curvy! He conditions!!! This boy is approachable and will Not shoot you One Million Times with a Machine Gun. This also works with the Liu Sang Signature Ponytail, as he leaves thick-enough bang pieces out to also give the illusion of curves around his face. Also his nose and cheekbones are NOT as strongly contoured, so the angularity of his face is softened as well

WHAT WE HAVE DETERMINED SO FAR

dmbj hair and makeup people were doing the absolute most

Wang Can’s hair gives us the most access to The Face, giving him a slick, straight look, and also something else which we will discuss next

Liu Sang is Soft and Curved bc of the hair and glasses, primarily

Oh speaking of fucking which you know who else is soft??? Huang Junjie. That’s the softest man I have ever seen. His xiaoge is my favorite bc it’s perfectly believable that he’s Butter Inside based solely on his Cheeks (again, it’s the hair people doing the Lord’s work)

PART THREE: IT’S ALL IN THE FACE

The face is the actor’s best friend, and Liu Chang definitely uses his well. We know him as being sort of stoic, more on the Xiao-Ge end of things than the Wu Xie side, but if u compare Liu Sang to Wang Can, LS is going HAM with the facials.

Let’s take a look!

Fuck me UP!!!!!! Look at him!! This is one of the earlier episodes too so we haven’t even gotten to the real good stuff but!!!! Look at his eyebrows!!! Look at how wide his eyes get (once again, the glasses are jumbotroning the peepers)! Look at his unhappy lil mouth!! That’s a whole REALM of facial expression, and so early on in our journey!

Meanwhile, Fuckboy Prime:

(Pardon the garbage screencap, my laptop broke on me this week and I am Suffering)

This is at the very end of Wang Can’s time with us; he’s fighting and he’s going to die and he KNOWS it, but this bitch doesn’t even draw his eyebrows together. Mcwhomst???? Bitch u GOTTA give us more than that I’m BEGGING u

The other interesting thing about their differing facial expressions is that Liu Sang emotes mostly with his eyes, and Wang Can emotes mostly with his mouth. This is very obvious in the clip @xcziel posted, esp when he starts doing the whole gesturing-with-his-chin thing, but it’s prominent throughout.

These two screenshots were taken like fifteen seconds apart. He does a whole face journey, but only with his mouth. His eyes stay fixed; they move, sure, but they don’t get any wider or anything like that.

Liu Sang, however is always doing stuff with his eyes. For example (I couldn’t find an image of it quick enough but I know that @kholran has this gifset), the sacrifice scene where he looks up at Wu Xie with the biggest, most pleading and questioning eyes imaginable?? Kills me. The DEPTH in those bad boys. Fuck me UP.

This also checks out when we remember the glasses. Since they emphasize the eyes, we’re drawn to that part of Liu Sang’s face, so it makes sense that the majority of his expression would happen there. This is also prominent with his hearing abilities; whenever he’s trying to focus them (or get us to focus on him), he not only turns his eyes away, he SHUTS THEM, which means we as the audience know that there’s something going on underneath the surface, and really highlights the fact that this is an unusual and cool power!

With Wang Can, however, the structure of his face and absence of Hair Curves directs the eye to his mouth, so we watch that to tell what’s going on in his head. It’s all about directing the eye, and Liu Chang is very good at knowing where people are going to be looking!

SO: WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED?

Liu Sang, Wang Can, and Jiang Wu are all very distinctly characterized through their body language

The same actor becomes different characters by using their toolkit (the body) to its full potential

Hair and makeup people are Wizards

Wang Can is a Whole-Ass Ho and I do not miss him even a little bit

Liu Sang’s body dynamics change over time and I love that for him!!

I’m a giant nerd the end

[jockvillagersonly]

Team Wu Xie Also Loves Li Cu

For the give me a character ask 💕 LI CU!!!!!!!

LI CU LI CU LI CU LI CU MY BABY BOY 

you know every day i ask myself: “li cu can’t be your favourite character, right? like you’d die for iron triangle and you’d kill for xiao bai and you’d give your body and soul to free princess mute, like- it can’t be li cu, right?” and then i look myself in the mirror and go: “stop lying to yourself”

WOW THIS GOT LONG SO THE REST IS UNDER THE CUT

How I feel about this character:

Might possibly be my fav dmbj dumbass. who knows. certainly not me. i just- LOVE HIM?? SO MUCH???? He sucker-punched me from the very beginning with his TEARS and his DESPERATION and his ACCUSATIONS OF KIDNAPPING. and ok he’s also a Dumb Teenage Boy and ok maybe he tries Too Hard to be a Normal Dumb Teenage Boy, like he’s going through the motions and maybe I relate a little ok idk.

And I just- adore that so much of Sha Hai is through his perspective?? Because it is very much Li Cu’s story. He’s an outsider here diving into a world we already know so well and Wu Xie is the catalyst. And really- it’s about seeing a character whom we all adore (Wu Xie) who is Hurting and Desperate and Raw (bc Xiao Ge), and he’s doing his best to fulfill a HUGE storyline but maybe he catches Feelings along the way. Maybe he adopts a son who is also Hurting but for very different reasons. And maybe it’s about seeing these two people who are lost and alone find each other in this chaos, see the good in each other, and help them find the good in themselves.

I already screamed about Li Cu’s character at you last night because I just- have So Many Feelings about him. But I think the core of Li Cu’s character really resonates with me?

It’s all about him finding a reason to live and a reason to love himself and a reason to care about himself. And it’s all about him letting others love and care about him, too.

Li Cu’s been told his whole life that he isn’t worth the air he breathes and he isn’t worth the trouble he causes. He isn’t worthy of love or sacrifice or kindness. And so much about Sha Hai is Li Cu realizing that he is. 

As you pointed out so beautifully, Sierra, Wu Xie is in such an awful place, and yet he still helps Li Cu realize his worth. And, re our conversations about how Li Cu views Pingxie, Wu Xie helps Li Cu realize that that love that can a beautiful, kind thing. Painful sometimes, and so fucking hard. But it’s worth it, if you want it.

And honestly, I think a lot of the Tiger Trio is about this, too: finding a reason to live, getting out of the motions of pretending to be a Normal Teenage Boy, finding a reason to love yourself and realizing it’s okay to let others love and care and fight for you, too. 

They’re already friends, but Sha Hai truly brings them together. Makes them realize they are worth it and there is someone who cares about them and will fight for them and will follow them to the fucking ends of the earth. 

It’s about finding FAMILY and I fucking LOVE THAT for them!!!!

I adore our Ya Li so much I could cry (i do. i do cry)

All the people I ship romantically with this character:

You know, I wrote a little about family and love, and promptly tripped into shipping Jia Kezi/Li Cu so hard I straight up blacked out.

I also am interested in Jia Kezi/Li Cu/Li Jiale 👀👀👀 but have not explored this yet.

I have Feelings about Li Cu/Shen Qiong/Wang Can bc of @traineecryptid’s  AMAZING fic 老牛吃嫩草| old cow eats young grass which I think about Often. I honestly don’t really ship straight up Li Cu/Shen Qiong, but adding Wang Can’s Chaotic Murder Element Does Things to me.

I want to ship Li Cu/Su Wan/Hao Ge but anything past Kissing and Holding Hands makes me cover my face in Embarrassed Despair bc they are my BABIES my SONS i cANT

and you already know about that One Very Specific time travel au where it’s li cu/wu xie/xiao ge i have a LOT of FEELINGS about THAT but only for that Very Specific Circumstance

I actually headcanon Li Cu as demi/bi, leaning more towards ace, bc it just?? Fits so well, in my opinion?? I don’t really wanna imagine him having Sexy Times with anyone, just Sweaty, Embarrassed, Panicky Feelings (except for that Very Specific Time Travel au but we’ve talked about this). Maybe this will change. But for now he is simply My Son and I wish him happiness in whatever form he so chooses.

My non-romantic OTP for this character:

I WOULD DIE FOR THE TIGER TRIO!!! FOR ALL THE REASONS STATED ABOVE!! THEY’RE DUMB TEENAGE BOYS LEARNING TO LOVE THEMSELVES AND EACH OTHER.

I also unrepentantly would die for Shen Qiong&Wang Xiaoyuan&Li Cu&Su Wan&Hao Ge&Wang Can BROT6. I- wow. okay. Might actually write a fic about this. They are the Next Generation, learning from the Iron Triangle/HeiHua/Su Nan and they are learning from past mistakes and SURPASSING THEM and everyone is SO PROUD LOOK AT THEM GO!!!!!!!! And okay maybe let’s add some Xiao Bai in there, too, hm?

And- well. not BROTP, but it is our Classic FATHER&SON DUO LI CU & WU XIE. They are my favourite thing about Sha Hai. Full stop. They make me Feel Things and Cry. They’re what really got me into Sha Hai and the greater dmbj universe. :)

ALSO LI CU & SPIRIT SNAKE ✨ BFFS FOREVER ✨

My unpopular opinion about this character:

UHHHHH I have no idea I’ve never thought about this before UUHH ARE there unpopular opinions???

OH maybe unpopular opinion is that Li Cu is demi/bi instead of Straight Up Sweaty Gay. he’s just Sweaty bc oH NO HE’S NEVER FELT LIKE THIS BEFORE??? HE L P???

OH also maybe unpopular opinion is that he and the original Shen Qiong actually were good friends and maybe each other’s only friend until Su Wan came along.

And okay maybe this is another unpopular opinion: Li Cu did actually start falling for Shen Qiong but he’s a Confused demi who has a difficult time telling the difference between friendship and romance and also it was a Really Shitty Situation. and he’ll forever wonder if they could have been Something or just Really Good Friends and he’ll never know 🙃

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.

MORE SPIRIT SNAKE JESUS FUCKING CHRIST. I want them fighting over control of his body. I want Spirit Snake kicking ASS. I want more of those CRAZY DEAD PEOPLE VISIONS ok i have HEADCANONS about those and I think it was the SPIRIT SNAKE and not whatever the fuck Wu Xie said it was. I want Trauma, I want Reluctant Found Family, I want Li Cu letting the spirit snake take the reins of his body every so often so it can actually Live and maybe get Li Cu’s ears pierced and dress up gnc as FUCK bc the spirit snake don’t need no Stupid Human Gender. and- sierra, as you so eloquently put, Li Cu looking at himself and going “OH?” 👀 bc hELL YEAH THAT’S STUCK IN MY HEAD NOW LET LI CU BE GNC

I’m assuming we’ll get more spirit snake in Sha Hai 2, but if it’s not Leo Wu playing Li Cu I will burst into Actual Tears.

Sierra thank you for letting me cry about My Actual Son Li Cu. \(´；ω；`)/

[jockvillagersonly]

Hey, question. Do you watch any AvenueX videos? You can learn some really interesting things in those, like how reboot ershu's actor has been in an LGBTQ film. Years ago, admittedly, but like. I'm sure that could fit into ershu's backstory somehow. >.> the film is Lan Yu, if you want to look it up. Apparently it did pretty well internationally at the time.

!!!!! I have never seen them, no! Thank you so much for the recommendation! I will definitely look up both of these videos!! 🥺🥺

Also, yes, I am pretty firmly in the camp that Wu Erbai is queer (whether gay, or bi, or even ace, I leave to individual interpretation). I think it opens up a lot of interesting thoughts about his character, his ruthlessness, and his approach to family:

Adds valence to how much he demands or expects of Wu Xie, in terms of Wu Xie sacrificing his self for the family (after all, hasn’t he? If we see him as someone who is queer, and who has denied that part of himself either consciously or unconsciously in order to serve the Wu family, of course he expects Wu Xie to do the same. To be a Wu is to sacrifice.)

...Though to the point above, that makes it extra interesting that he himself never actually married, doesn’t it? How far does sacrifice go?

Which — would marriage to a woman have made his life easier? Is there an additional component in his interactions with his nephew of needing Wu Xie to carry on the family line, but also perhaps desiring to protect Wu Xie from the rumors and dismissal and loneliness that has dogged Wu Erbai’s life?

All this to say: does Wu Erbai see himself in Wu Xie? Does that please him? Scare him? Both? How does that (especially if we read them both as queer) carry into their interactions as uncle and nephew — interactions that are so deeply and richly painted with love, and care, and control?

Is their a “right” way to be a queer Wu, in Wu Erbai’s mind — and what does he feel (anger, frustration, jealousy?) when Wu Xie denies it?

@canary3d-obsessed made a comment in one of their lovely TLTR outfit posts about Wu Xie’s sweater when he visits Wu Erbai showing that he is “someone else around his family” — for queer folks, this might particularly resonate. But what about the inverse? Is the Wu Erbai who greets Wu Xie the same as the Wu Erbai who runs his empire alone in his office? Is the Wu Erbai who humiliated rivals the same as the Wu Erbai who wears his reading glasses in bed? How and in what way does his queerness filter in? How does he experience his own self? We don’t get to see this, but I wonder how much of the Wu Erbai we know is construction (just as so much of the public Wu Xie is, ESPECIALLY after Sha Hai. The difference is that we see Wu Xie in private, with the veneer stripped away. We don’t see Wu Erbai in this way, because to Wu Xie he is inherently functioning “in public.”)

[jockvillagersonly]

Explore with the Note | I loved this scene for a LOT of reasons, including

Classic example of extremely hot headed baby!Wu Xie

Early glimpse of Pangzi’s mediating role in the Iron Triangle, as the person who is practical when ZQL gets too caught up on his quest and WX gets too caught up on trying to save ZQL from said quest.

Also, Pangzi reminding WX that this must be important to ZQL, even if WX doesn’t get why (and a reflection of the role Pangzi plays in WX’s life not only as a friend, but as a mentor and guide as well)

“I’ll stick with you to the end” — and it’s interesting that WX breaks out the self term “Xiao Sanye” here? I’ve never really heard him refer to himself as such, and it implies a level of formality in this promise he makes that I find interesting

WX insisting he won’t let anything bad happen to XG - and when has anyone cared all that much about XG’s well being for his own sake? Just because they don’t want him to get hurt? Not because they need him for something? - but also XG’s look of utter disdain in response

Which leads to perhaps my favorite thing:

ZQL is pissed. He is not fucking happy with WX here. He does not appreciate WX’s stubborn, arrogant insistence that he knows better than anyone how to keep ZQL safe. WX may feel like he’s won the argument (going off his face in the final 3), but he hasn’t actually even scratched the surface. And I love the tension this builds in, the reality that WX’s belief and faith and love can be both liberating and restraining; that his naïveté can be and is a real hindrance in many ways?

[jockvillagersonly]

I watched a BTS where the iron triangle bullies liusang but it was actually Liusang annoying Pangzi and viceversa, and wuxie and xiaoge joining in to back up Pangzi. And I thought what if Liu Sang annoys Pangzi to get his attention? Pangzi is a rain of sunshine, I wouldn't be surprised if liusang was attracted but I've never thought about them romantically 'til now. I'm actually intrigued now. What do you think? Have you ever thought of them that way without wuxie and xiaoge in the mix?

WOW UH HELLO THIS IS A NEW SHIP I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT I NOW N E E D

First, enemies to lovers speed run

We know Liu Sang is a feral cat, and Pangzi is like. The embodiment of home. I wouldn’t be surprised if part of why Liu Sang is so hissy is that he sees that and wants it and doesn’t know why

(And maybe getting Pangzi’s attention, even his annoyed attention — maybe it makes Liu Sang feel warm, and happy, and safe, and maybe he isn’t ready to think about it too hard)

Also we KNOW Pangzi is a sucker for bright young things 😭 I think he would be begrudgingly intrigued by Liu Sang’s competence, and honestly all it would take is Liu Sang trying to sacrifice himself one (1) time for Wu Xie before Pangzi imprints

(Very Swiftly Tilting vibes)

Honestly ask this is really making me think of Liu Sang in @s1utspeare’s amazing pingpangxiesang fic (CLICK ME), and how of all of them, Pangzi is the one Liu Sang sees as safe

[jockvillagersonly]

I've always thought that Sanshu was trying to defend Wuxie and to shield him by all the stuff the mystic were plotting but after reading your last chapter of supplication, I might have misjudge him..? I've to say that I still haven't watched TLTreboot seasons, so maybe that is an important step for Sanshu's charatcer. Is it there where we find out what is he up to and his real reasons behind his shady behaviour? thank you!

Ok to be fair, I am the literal conductor of the Sanshu hate train!! Not everyone hates him like I do.

So speaking for my biased ass specifically, the biggest revelations around Sanshu’s Shady Shit Emporium are in TLT3: Ultimate Note. Far from shielding Wu Xie, Sanshu is actively manipulating and using Wu Xie as a key pawn in the Wu’s plan to extricate themselves from the Wang Family.

Sanshu is interesting, in some sense, in that he himself also has little choice in how he gets involved in removing himself from It’s control. And I think there are questions we can raise around him — does he care about Wu Xie, beyond Wu Xie’s role as an essential pawn in the Wu and Xie family plots? Does that matter? Why or why not?

Anyway, fun meme: drop the scene that made you hate Sanshu in the replies :)

[jockvillagersonly]

So I just watched the post-gas-bomb scene that a gorgeous gifset by @stebeee is based on (I keep trying to link the actual gifs but tumblr mobile Will Not), and I’m having a LOT of PingXie feelings!! I personally saw Zhang Qiling’s role in this scene as slightly different from OP’s take so buckle up boys...we’re going meta.

More than anything, I read this scene as about Wu Xie, for the first time, accepting that it’s “time” for him to go (a bit ironically, since he wakes up and cheats death again). In the past, every time he’s been threatened or had his pending death dangled over his head like a brand, he has always insisted that he can’t die yet, that he has something left to do.

I feel, in the post-gas-bomb dream scene, that Zhang Qiling represents these things left to do, namely, the deepest ties holding Wu Xie to life. Not just because Wu Xie is in the middle of actively searching for ZQL when this scene takes place, but also because of the deep emotional (romantic?) bond they share.

When Wu Xie first turns around and sees ZQL at the dream campsite, his reaction isn’t joy. He’s devastated. He visibly chokes up. His face contorts.

I think he’s scared to leave ZQL behind, emotionally and physically. He knows ZQL is physically stuck right now, potentially relying on Wu Xie’s plan to save him. But also, Wu Xie knows that deep in ZQL’s heart it’s only Wu Xie. He’s ZQL’s “connection with this world;” he’s the person ZQL comes back for. Yet here he is: leaving, for good. Seeing ZQL now is a reminder of all the loose ends he is leaving behind (and too of the love they hold for each other that will be left one sided, with one point snuffed out).

What really gets me is this next facial expression, though. Wu Xie smiles. You can track exactly when his gratitude and joy at seeing ZQL again, here at the “end” (to say goodbye, to say something more, to do or be something more?) takes over. What a fitting send off, right? He told ZQL he would “accompany [him] to the end,” and now ZQL has accompanied him to his.

How does ZQL respond to this? He smiles, and he nods. He tells Wu Xie, it’s ok, you can follow them. You can go.

He absolves the strongest tie Wu Xie has to staying alive. Not out of meanness, not with bitterness, not with regret...but with love and understanding.

And Wu Xie?

He softens, gentles his posture...and turns back around. He is prepared to go, for the first time in the entire series. And ZQL has paved the way for that. It’s bittersweet, I feel.

In the end, it’s not ZQL who brings Wu Xie back. It’s ZQL who tells Wu Xie it’s ok to go.

And that is just as much a testament to the love between them.

[jockvillagersonly]

God I love you (and @justpostsyeet for kicking this off) SO MUCH

Ok first I’m so glad you touched on gender in your response, because it was something I had written and then deleted that I think is EXTREMELY important to Xiao Bai’s character — as you note, not only does her age set her apart from the other directors, but her gender sets her apart from everyone

This whole meta just made me 😧 so adding on more under the cut!! You’re so fucking smart and amazing and wonderful @cross-d-a I love you so much??????? Wow

Ok so I’m on my phone which means this may not be super coherent, so apologies in advance!

I adore the understanding of Xiao Bai as a child of Warehouse 11 — and, also: a very different child of Warehouse 11. A child who worked and played in the main warehouse, a child with both endless more restrictions and endless more freedoms than the children carting freight in the tiny corridors of the children’s warehouse.

(No wonder she’s so bright eyed — she grew up finding lights in stars pasted on the ceiling, in flickering bulbs instead of suns. And isn’t that a metaphor for her? Finding light, finding meaning within the very physical manifestation of the omnipresent boundaries of her life and world?)

Your bit about XB’s relationship with Warehouse 11 and W11 doctrine is FASCINATING — and I think we could argue that part of why she is interested in helping Wu Xie, at first (beyond her idol worship) is that she sees Director Ding as a threat not to her, but to Warehouse 11. Which I think helps clarify some of those early contradictions people see in her behavior (it takes a long time for her to be willing to help Wu Xie in ways that would actually jeopardize Warehouse 11. She knows he has his own agenda, but - CRITICALLY - so does she)

I love that you wrote that bit about “here is a good person. Here is a person I can trust” BECAUSE in my first response I actually had a whole thing about parallels between Pangzi and Xiao Bai? That I deleted? And that line is so deeply Pangzi + Wu Xie to me. It makes me think about @mejomonster’s analysis of Wu Xie as someone Pangzi can be his authentic self with — and, for all that she is covering her identity for so long, I think Xiao Bai is drawn to that throbbing promise of intimacy always laced right under Wu Xie’s skin

^^ adding on: Wu Xie, like her, sees people as they are. He sees who they can be. He is as brutal and uncompromising as she can be, especially by TLTR, but he is also so...innocent, and your comment about his POV on Director Ding highlights that. I think you hit it right on the head that Xiao Bai wants, yearns, needs to protect that: “Wu Xie will always be someone worth protecting.” Idk I haven’t really thought this point out, which is why I deleted it the first time, but I think Xiao Bai is a fascinating foil to SO MANY other characters’ understandings of Wu Xie.

I actually had to reread your comment about how it must feel for Xiao Bai to watch this man (this man both desperately and nothing at all like her) “unravel secrets and mysteries that have felt larger than life, more terrifying than god, holier than the devil” — is it any wonder Xiao Bai fell so fast and so hard? Is it any wonder that Xiao Bai was desperate to see more? I don’t think it’s an accident that Wu Xie’s introduction to Xiao Bai is breaking in to the impregnable Warehouse 11; he breaks the physical barriers of W11 just as he will, in your words, ultimately “shatter” the mental/emotional barriers W11 has clamped hard around its workers

(Does Wu Xie offer sacrilege, or is he on the true path to salvation? Is he a heretic or a prophet?)

In the end, for Xiao Bai, maybe he is both — as you say: “And maybe she thinks Wu Xie is the first person to see her as an actual person instead of a tool and maybe that breaks Xiao Bai. Just a little.” But isn’t there glory in the breaking? Does the cat stretch, claws extended, when it is freed from the tea cup? Or does it remain curled up, spine bent, afraid to lose what it has held for so long?

(Xiao Bai has spent long enough fitting herself into a mold that was never designed for her. Her choice, surrounded by the brilliantly painted porcelain shards of a cage that was never strong enough, is not a surprise but a necessity.)

Do you ever wondered why Xiao Bai is so obsessed with Wu xie?

Idol worshipping, I get it but ISN'T she just too willing to do anything for him.

Wu xie will ask her to jump of a cliff

And she'll ask which cliff is high enough.

We really need a back story of Xiao Bai (or most of the characters)

Bro this is SUCH a good question??? I adore Xiao Bai with all of my heart, and I think there is so much about her that is so deeply contradictory and unexplained and I’m desperate for it.

I want to know how Xiao Bai becomes a director at her age. I want to know when she learned to hide her intelligence behind a guileless smile.

(I want to know if she even remembers)

I want to know if anyone tried to unseat her authority, and I want to know how she broke them down to make sure it never happened again.

(Is this what draws her to Wu Xie? A ruthlessness, wound tightly around their bones, coiled in the dimples of their smiles?)

I want to know if she sees herself in Wu Xie — if she sees herself in this man who is brutal, and bleeding, and absolutely glorious in it.

I think, after all, that Wu Xie is cute, and smart, and soft, and he is like her: singleminded and sharp-edged in his devotion underneath it all.

(And isn’t that an interesting parallel? Wu Xie to Xiaoge, Xiao Bai to Wu Xie? “Innocence” that both is and isn’t deeply, painfully, and incredibly authentic)

Anyway I just? I haven’t really thought about their relationship in awhile so thank you so much for this ask!! What are your opinions?? Also, @cross-d-a I know you have a bunch ;)))

[jockvillagersonly]

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[jockvillagersonly]

#this post is NOT SAFE FOR WORK #because tears #of joy or of sadness who knows :')

I recently rewatched the hallucination scene at the start of TLTR - you know, the one where Zhang Qiling makes possibly the most expressive face we have ever seen on him before promptly dying while staring lovingly into his husband’s eyes?

“But Sierra,” you ask, confused and lost, “This is a hallucination! Why are you analyzing it like a real event?”

Exactly because it’s a hallucination! Because it’s what Wu Xie’s brain thinks a situation like this would look like, and thus it tells us so much about how Wu Xie understands his relationship with Zhang Qiling.

And because I think he’s right.

Watching this scene, you’re immediately hit by how calm Xiaoge is? He looks down, once, at his wound, and then he never takes his eyes off Wu Xie. He allows his face to soften, the curves around his eyes relaxing, but he keeps his gaze firmly on Wu Xie.

And yes, this is a hallucination — but it’s also based on reality (as all good hallucinations are). And we have seen Xiaoge in a similar situation, with what might be a fatal chest/gut wound, and (as @thosch3i pointed out here), he does the exact same thing: he stares intently at Wu Xie, like Wu Xie in front of him, still living and breathing is the only thing that matters.

Like Wu Xie is the last thing he wants his eyes to see.

Like if he has to go, he will use every ounce of strength in his weakening fingers to hold on to that one, lone, infinite connection.

Like in the moment he succumbs to the most human of weaknesses, he wants to be focused on the man who reminded him that he has anything human in him at all.

And isn’t it telling that the Zhang Qiling in Wu Xie’s head is like this? That Wu Xie knows, intimately, that on death’s door Xiaoge will smile at him?

What gets me the most about this smile is that I don’t think it’s meant to be comforting. I don’t think Xiaoge is trying to pretend everything is going to be alright.

I think Xiaoge is smiling because he knows that Wu Xie is alright. That he might be fading fast, but Wu Xie is going to make it, even if just for another minute, another hour, another moment longer.

Zhang Qiling has always known that if he has to give up his life, he would want it to be for Wu Xie. He’s done it before, after all.

And this scene, as a construction of Wu Xie’s mind that so closely parallels reality, shows us that Wu Xie knows that. He knows, even if subconsciously, that Zhang Qiling would take a spear to the heart for him, only to look up with nothing but gratitude in his eyes.

This is an immutable truth for Wu Xie and Xiaoge: that each would die for the other, without any bitter taste on their tongue.

If you want to read a fic take on this, I highly recommend Stars Fall Like Diamonds by @merinnan, which is this scene from Xiaoge’s perspectice!

[jockvillagersonly]

STOP MAKING ME CRY ON MY OWN POST!!!!!!!

Do you ever think about how the parasitic mushroom incident brought out some of the most intense physical and behavioral expressions of fear we have ever seen from Zhang Qiling? It’s one of the only times we ever see Zhang Qiling indecisive — he reads as utterly plagued with fear at the potential ramifications of his choices.

Or about how establishing Zhang Qiling as the arbiter of when / how Wu Xie’s infection would be healed forced Zhang Qiling to really sit with his feelings about Wu Xie and Wu Xie’s mortality (in a way that his previous rescues - which were often discrete moments - did not always)?

Or about how afterwards, we see that this incident (and all the reckoning that came with it) shook him to the core? It was hard to get the timing right for a screenshot, but he is clearly losing it and barely keeping it hidden when Wu Xie wakes up.

Or about how Wu Xie never knew about any of this? And continued forward in this nebulous space of knowing he is important (?) to Xiaoge (?) but also feeling confused by Xiaoge’s mixed signals? And how we see that tension continue to play out in many of their interactions in the rainforest even as we, the audience, have had a moment to glance into the heart of Zhang Qiling?

[jockvillagersonly]

These are such great additions! I definitely was not reflecting on the additional valence of this within the cultural context of China’s OPC nearly as thoughtfully as you did, so I very much appreciate your comments! Thank you @momosandlemonsoda!

I am adding on a bit under the cut !! As a disclaimer, i am not Chinese, and this is by no means my area of expertise, so please feel free to correct me or point out misunderstandings I may carry✨❤️

So first — I LOVE that you raise questions around how the Wu family develops that are separate from their entanglement with the big forces of the novels! And the questions you raise around Wu Xie’s parents are fascinating. Thank you so much for bringing them up!

Something that sticks out to me as I look over your comments, particularly around expectations of children, is how Wu Xie parallels the other Jiumen heirs we see of his generation, such as Xiao Hua or Xiuxiu (and apologies, because I am going to loop this back into the role the Wu’s involvement with Jiumen had on their family planning decisions 😭).

Essentially: as far as I am aware, no one else in the Jiumen used their monetary or political privilege to have multiple children. None of the Jiumen members are, uh, particularly patriotic, given that their business tends to skirt the fine bounds of the law. I haven’t seen enough of Mystic 9 to speak to Fo Ye here, but he strikes me as someone who pursues military power for his agenda, not out of a desire for ~service to the country.~

Now, with the Mystic 9 being as wealthy and politically connected as they are, it is perhaps somewhat of a surprise that they didn’t pay the fines or find other ways to circumvent the policy (though, I should note that while a cursory Google search indicated that wealthy families found ways out of the one child policy, I didn’t find much on just how common this type of situation was).

But, assuming it’s relatively common among wealthy elites, why don’t they — and, particularly, the Wus — attempt to circumvent the policy?

I would argue two main potential reasons, potentially in tandem:

Compliance with the OCP is a purposeful decision by members of the Jiumen to avoid undue additional attention on their families, which are already engaging in relatively shady business

For the Wus specifically, as you point out, there is an assumption that Wu Sanxing and Wu Erbai will provide additional heirs

(Note that I am assuming that the Wus have the financial/political means to avoid forced sterilization for Wu Xie’s mom if they so desire, and thus not including an inability to conceive due to state intervention as a reason here.)

If we envision Wu Erbai as queer, these two factors have some interesting resonance for him and for his future relationship with Wu Xie!

Scenario 1: OCP as Political Move

For the first scenario, we can clearly see an interesting, almost contradictory duality: both the merging of business with family, as well as the prioritization of business over family. In some sense, the family becomes the business / the business becomes the family — in order to protect the interests of the business (and of the family that the business sustains), the interests of the family (more heirs!) must be limited. We can see the long-lasting impact of this on Wu Erbai’s relationship with Wu Xie; the family (as business) comes before the family (as personal desire), in Wu Erbai’s treatment of Wu Xie as well as in the Wu family’s expectations of Wu Xie.

(And this isn’t even getting into the role Wu Xie is expected to play in the fight against It, I’m just examining Wu-Xie-as-Heir)

Sidebar for the first scenario: this also implies that the Wu family is invested in keeping their personal lives as clean as possible, to protect their family enterprises. If we envision Wu Erbai as queer — in a world where homosexuality was brutally policed and stigmatized, even if not explicitly illegal — what does this mean for his ability to authentically express himself? What role might this have not only on his self conception as queer, but also on his conception of queerness in general? And on his conception, as I mentioned earlier in my post, of how Wu Xie perhaps “should” engage with his own queerness?

Scenario 2: Expected Wu Heirs

You bring up a great point with the note that both Wu Sanxing and Wu Erbai had long-term relationships with women capable of bearing children, especially when you point out how this would have impacted the Wu’s expectations of them (and of Wu Xie himself).

I could definitely dive into this, but honestly the biggest question I have is: Wu Erbai himself defies the expectations to get married and have heirs — so why is he so surprised and frustrated when Wu Xie does, too?

I don’t know if I have an answer! I think it could be a combination of things; for instance, as I mentioned in the original post, a sense of frustration or jealousy. Perhaps also a desire to protect Wu Xie from the endless comments and critiques associated with bachelordom in the Wu family (though, of course, the irony of this is that in doing so Wu Erbai projects the cycle on Wu Xie again himself.)

A big component, I think, comes back to this idea from situation 1, of family-as-business / business-as-family. Wu Xie works in antiques, but he is unwilling to step into the type of leadership role within the family that Wu Erbai occupies (thus rejecting the business-as-family). So, perhaps, Wu Erbai expects Wu Xie to make up this loss to the business-as-family by, at the very least, maintaining the family itself through heirs — or, to put it another way, if he will not himself fill a role within the business-as-family, then he can be reasonably expected to provide additional members of the family, or “workers” to to sustain the family-as-business.

Conclusion: So What’s It All Mean?

This is not to say that Wu Erbai is inherently a tragic figure, though I do think there are elements to his identity narrative that are rife with tragedy. Ultimately, he is someone who has been both liberated and contained by his role within the Wu Family — a role that was / is partially and additionally defined by the cultural context of China in the 1980s, as you so eloquently reminded us.

But it is to say that from the very beginning, Wu Xie and Wu Erbai are operating under a fundamental disconnect. And I would argue that reading Wu Erbai as queer gives us some really interesting tools to understand where, and why, and how that happens.

Anyway was any of this necessary? No. Also, please go read @xcziel’s really fascinating tags taking a look specifically at the role that being (or not being) out might have in this context!!! She’s very smart and her brain is very juicy.

Hey, question. Do you watch any AvenueX videos? You can learn some really interesting things in those, like how reboot ershu's actor has been in an LGBTQ film. Years ago, admittedly, but like. I'm sure that could fit into ershu's backstory somehow. >.> the film is Lan Yu, if you want to look it up. Apparently it did pretty well internationally at the time.

!!!!! I have never seen them, no! Thank you so much for the recommendation! I will definitely look up both of these videos!! 🥺🥺

Also, yes, I am pretty firmly in the camp that Wu Erbai is queer (whether gay, or bi, or even ace, I leave to individual interpretation). I think it opens up a lot of interesting thoughts about his character, his ruthlessness, and his approach to family:

Adds valence to how much he demands or expects of Wu Xie, in terms of Wu Xie sacrificing his self for the family (after all, hasn’t he? If we see him as someone who is queer, and who has denied that part of himself either consciously or unconsciously in order to serve the Wu family, of course he expects Wu Xie to do the same. To be a Wu is to sacrifice.)

...Though to the point above, that makes it extra interesting that he himself never actually married, doesn’t it? How far does sacrifice go?

Which — would marriage to a woman have made his life easier? Is there an additional component in his interactions with his nephew of needing Wu Xie to carry on the family line, but also perhaps desiring to protect Wu Xie from the rumors and dismissal and loneliness that has dogged Wu Erbai’s life?

All this to say: does Wu Erbai see himself in Wu Xie? Does that please him? Scare him? Both? How does that (especially if we read them both as queer) carry into their interactions as uncle and nephew — interactions that are so deeply and richly painted with love, and care, and control?

Is their a “right” way to be a queer Wu, in Wu Erbai’s mind — and what does he feel (anger, frustration, jealousy?) when Wu Xie denies it?

@canary3d-obsessed made a comment in one of their lovely TLTR outfit posts about Wu Xie’s sweater when he visits Wu Erbai showing that he is “someone else around his family” — for queer folks, this might particularly resonate. But what about the inverse? Is the Wu Erbai who greets Wu Xie the same as the Wu Erbai who runs his empire alone in his office? Is the Wu Erbai who humiliated rivals the same as the Wu Erbai who wears his reading glasses in bed? How and in what way does his queerness filter in? How does he experience his own self? We don’t get to see this, but I wonder how much of the Wu Erbai we know is construction (just as so much of the public Wu Xie is, ESPECIALLY after Sha Hai. The difference is that we see Wu Xie in private, with the veneer stripped away. We don’t see Wu Erbai in this way, because to Wu Xie he is inherently functioning “in public.”)

[s1utspeare]

This is such a good and valid post and I love all of these points but it also reminded me of this conversation Sierra and I had some time back

I am HERE for queer Erbai and I think he deserves to wear a gay sweater and hang out with his gay nephew 🥺

Hey, question. Do you watch any AvenueX videos? You can learn some really interesting things in those, like how reboot ershu's actor has been in an LGBTQ film. Years ago, admittedly, but like. I'm sure that could fit into ershu's backstory somehow. >.> the film is Lan Yu, if you want to look it up. Apparently it did pretty well internationally at the time.

!!!!! I have never seen them, no! Thank you so much for the recommendation! I will definitely look up both of these videos!! 🥺🥺

Also, yes, I am pretty firmly in the camp that Wu Erbai is queer (whether gay, or bi, or even ace, I leave to individual interpretation). I think it opens up a lot of interesting thoughts about his character, his ruthlessness, and his approach to family:

Adds valence to how much he demands or expects of Wu Xie, in terms of Wu Xie sacrificing his self for the family (after all, hasn’t he? If we see him as someone who is queer, and who has denied that part of himself either consciously or unconsciously in order to serve the Wu family, of course he expects Wu Xie to do the same. To be a Wu is to sacrifice.)

...Though to the point above, that makes it extra interesting that he himself never actually married, doesn’t it? How far does sacrifice go?

Which — would marriage to a woman have made his life easier? Is there an additional component in his interactions with his nephew of needing Wu Xie to carry on the family line, but also perhaps desiring to protect Wu Xie from the rumors and dismissal and loneliness that has dogged Wu Erbai’s life?

All this to say: does Wu Erbai see himself in Wu Xie? Does that please him? Scare him? Both? How does that (especially if we read them both as queer) carry into their interactions as uncle and nephew — interactions that are so deeply and richly painted with love, and care, and control?

Is their a “right” way to be a queer Wu, in Wu Erbai’s mind — and what does he feel (anger, frustration, jealousy?) when Wu Xie denies it?

@canary3d-obsessed made a comment in one of their lovely TLTR outfit posts about Wu Xie’s sweater when he visits Wu Erbai showing that he is “someone else around his family” — for queer folks, this might particularly resonate. But what about the inverse? Is the Wu Erbai who greets Wu Xie the same as the Wu Erbai who runs his empire alone in his office? Is the Wu Erbai who humiliated rivals the same as the Wu Erbai who wears his reading glasses in bed? How and in what way does his queerness filter in? How does he experience his own self? We don’t get to see this, but I wonder how much of the Wu Erbai we know is construction (just as so much of the public Wu Xie is, ESPECIALLY after Sha Hai. The difference is that we see Wu Xie in private, with the veneer stripped away. We don’t see Wu Erbai in this way, because to Wu Xie he is inherently functioning “in public.”)

[momosandlemonsoda]

So, hopefully I won’t offend by jumping in here, but I find this topic fascinating. I agree with the reading of Wu Erbai as queer, and I do think the question of him not getting married/Wu Xie as the only heir is really interesting.

The Wu family would reasonably expect that Wu Xie’s parents would have multiple children. He was born in 1977. The one-child policy came into effect 1978-79.

Given everything else Chinese people had lived through under Mao by that point, I don’t know if Wu Xie’s parents might have expected this policy would end in a couple of years, or if they considered defying the policy and accepting the fines, or if by the time they considered doing that their fertility was challenged. If they decided to have a second child and were forced to abort or if Wu Xie’s mother was forced into using contraception. Or if they looked at the policy, looked at their tiny troublemaker, and were like, oh thank heavens we can’t have more than one.

Wu Sanxing seems to have been v attached to Chen Wenjing, so for a while that might have been an assumed match. The Wu family is like, ok, these kids will get it together and get married! And then... doomed romance, double lives, etc.

Wu Erbai had his Reboot!lady romance, even if it went nowhere. I do wonder at what point the Wu grandparents started putting pressure on Wu Erbai. I mean, he’s building the business, etc etc. for a while that would put them off especially if Wu Laogou is busy with the Jiumen business. But imagine all the dinners where he got nagged about when he was going to get married and produce a baby. One! Heir! Isn’t! Enough!

And yet, he didn’t. Wu Erbai defied what I would think would be fairly significant familial/filial expectations of getting married and producing a second child for the family. Then you get to @jockvillagersonly questions about how Wu Erbai relates to his nephew and his reluctance to do his duty to the family.

Anyway, I just find it really interesting to explore how the Wu family ended up where they did when you go broader than just the (obviously significant) impact that the Jiumen/It/Ultimate had on their lives.

Hey, question. Do you watch any AvenueX videos? You can learn some really interesting things in those, like how reboot ershu's actor has been in an LGBTQ film. Years ago, admittedly, but like. I'm sure that could fit into ershu's backstory somehow. >.> the film is Lan Yu, if you want to look it up. Apparently it did pretty well internationally at the time.

!!!!! I have never seen them, no! Thank you so much for the recommendation! I will definitely look up both of these videos!! 🥺🥺

Also, yes, I am pretty firmly in the camp that Wu Erbai is queer (whether gay, or bi, or even ace, I leave to individual interpretation). I think it opens up a lot of interesting thoughts about his character, his ruthlessness, and his approach to family:

Adds valence to how much he demands or expects of Wu Xie, in terms of Wu Xie sacrificing his self for the family (after all, hasn’t he? If we see him as someone who is queer, and who has denied that part of himself either consciously or unconsciously in order to serve the Wu family, of course he expects Wu Xie to do the same. To be a Wu is to sacrifice.)

...Though to the point above, that makes it extra interesting that he himself never actually married, doesn’t it? How far does sacrifice go?

Which — would marriage to a woman have made his life easier? Is there an additional component in his interactions with his nephew of needing Wu Xie to carry on the family line, but also perhaps desiring to protect Wu Xie from the rumors and dismissal and loneliness that has dogged Wu Erbai’s life?

All this to say: does Wu Erbai see himself in Wu Xie? Does that please him? Scare him? Both? How does that (especially if we read them both as queer) carry into their interactions as uncle and nephew — interactions that are so deeply and richly painted with love, and care, and control?

Is their a “right” way to be a queer Wu, in Wu Erbai’s mind — and what does he feel (anger, frustration, jealousy?) when Wu Xie denies it?

@canary3d-obsessed made a comment in one of their lovely TLTR outfit posts about Wu Xie’s sweater when he visits Wu Erbai showing that he is “someone else around his family” — for queer folks, this might particularly resonate. But what about the inverse? Is the Wu Erbai who greets Wu Xie the same as the Wu Erbai who runs his empire alone in his office? Is the Wu Erbai who humiliated rivals the same as the Wu Erbai who wears his reading glasses in bed? How and in what way does his queerness filter in? How does he experience his own self? We don’t get to see this, but I wonder how much of the Wu Erbai we know is construction (just as so much of the public Wu Xie is, ESPECIALLY after Sha Hai. The difference is that we see Wu Xie in private, with the veneer stripped away. We don’t see Wu Erbai in this way, because to Wu Xie he is inherently functioning “in public.”)