#differences in moral code

[ogeneral8]

interesting how fords been surrounded by triangles his entire life. looks like ford and bill were always doomed to meet each other

ford did seem to think that he is destined to be in gravity falls, destined to be part of greater things, and bill also thought he was "destined for so much more"

to quote on alex, "that's ford's great flaw, is arrogance. is he believes that there's special people, and everyone else. that human attachments are actually weaknesses. and the song and dance that he’s giving dipper right now, is the song and dance that he gave mcgucket, back when they were younger… ‘you and me are different, we’re better than everyone else. we have a path that no one else can understand, and only us can do this.’"

i think at some point bill really thought ford was the one that UNDERSTOOD him (well, ford did think "why did rudolph not simply kill the other reindeer? he shouldve burned his workshop to the ground"). some of his henchmaniacs didnt seem to actually like bill at all

quick edit for something ive found:

this is from "dreamscaperers", and apparently ford had been dreaming about the cipher wheel for weeks before he even found the cave. enough times that he was even able to perfectly draw the wheel on the journal. bill didnt even know about ford yet.

[stardust-falling]

Having more thoughts about Shen Jiu because of course I am.

I don’t think he has the capacity for empathy or genuine selflessness.

He spent the entirety of his formative years deep in survival mode, and because of that, he evaluates people solely based off of how they might threaten or ensure his safety and/or comfort. As far as individual people themselves with their own perspectives… honestly I don’t think he even thinks of that.

Maybe a controversial opinion, but I don’t think even YQY is exempt.

Shen Jiu doesn’t have a moral code. When every day is spent on surviving, a moral code is a luxury.

And really, he just never got out of that mode. See, the thing is, once you’ve had enough adverse experiences it only takes a little bit to trigger you back into that mindset. Shen Jiu was used to being scolded and then beaten or abused, so for him, even a simple chiding is a precursor to abuse— even if he DOES recognize that nothing more will happen, his body and mental patterns will still go into that preparation time.

So of course he never left survival mode, because even if nothing is actively happening, your mind will keep reinforcing those patterns.

For someone with a normal upbringing, as far as I can tell, empathy is something you learn and develop from those around you. Many seem to think it’s something innate and natural and if you don’t have it then there’s something wrong with you from birth. I think Shen Jiu falls into exactly this category of thought— and so he doesn’t even consider that he could try to learn and develop it as a skill he can perform, even if it doesn’t come naturally.

Of course, would he even try? He hasn’t been given any incentive. Any time he has tried to do something good, he ends up getting hurt (saving Yue Qi leading to being taken by QJL) or misinterpreted and admonished (the well ghost incident, keep in mind my earlier point about scoldings perpetuating the same patterns).

So he stays in that same vicious cycle, perpetually in survival mode and unable to escape, even in a relatively secure position (see: his paranoia).

Now, this is all relevant to the discussions of SJ’s feminism, misogyny, and/or lack thereof. I feel like a lot of discussions aren’t really getting the full picture.

SJ sees people, no matter who they are, as solely how they can affect him. Just because this isn’t exclusive to women, or because if comes from a reasonable place, does that really mean it doesn’t play into misogyny?

Let’s take another angle.

I think his abuse of LBH and other talented disciples also is rooted, deep down, in this same issue. He’s not just hurting LBH only to hurt him, his aim is specifically to stunt his cultivation. There’s jealousy at play there of course, but there’s a bit more layers to it too— SJ doesn’t think he’s capable of goodness. So reasonably, he’ll be a bad teacher. He already knows what happens when someone becomes more powerful than their oppressor. LBH may be a child now, but a part of SJ whether he acknowledges it or not sees him as a future threat that needs to be treated as such.

It’s rooted in fear— because everything is with SJ.

So does that mean it’s not actually abuse?

No. The behaviors he shows are still abusive, the reasoning just gives a lens for understanding.

Now, with his views on women— I mentioned in the tags of my original post that I don’t think he views women as people. This is based in that earlier idea of how he interprets others based off their risk and benefit to him. For women specifically, though, there’s another layer.

Shen Jiu grew up in a society where women are inherently lesser— and he grew up in an extreme version of this. He saw women being treated as property firsthand(both as slaves, as well as QJL’s views on his sister). Your worldview is shaped by the world that you view during those early years. Whether he agreed or not, SJ would still take on the patterns of his environment. This, though, is just the same as general societal misogyny and ingrained bias. I don’t think he’s any different than anyone else in this way.

But where SJ’s particular flavor comes in is that to him, women are a source of comfort. For various reasons— positive past experiences, less threatening (or at least don’t carry the dangers men do). He craves comfort— needs it really, because he doesn’t get it and his cortisol levels are always so high they’re poisoning his body. Women are the best source of that comfort for him.

It’s not that he likes them— at least, not any more than someone would like drinking water, or a coat in the winter. They’re fulfilling a survival need for him.

That is what the objectification is where SJ is concerned.

So… is it misogyny?

I’d say yes, in a way it still is. It’s not violent, and it doesn’t come from some inherent sense of “superiority as a man” but at the core of it all, he’s still not viewing women as people, and he has no interest in changing the status quo, because it benefits him to be able to go purchase comfort at a pleasure house, even if it’s not what people usually do there. The picture is bigger than just misogyny, but the traits taken as themselves are misogynistic nonetheless.

I could go into his specific relationships with women and how that informs his character, but this post is already long enough. We know that he mentally divides people by sex, and that distinction has a lot of weight in his judgment of them. Even if it comes from a place of trauma, even if it comes from a general worldview that applies to everyone, he still views women as a commodity— so on some level, and from an outside perspective, he is misogynistic.

In the end, though, it still all comes from him being stuck in survival mode. His lack of empathy, his viewing others as risks and benefits— these things themselves aren’t moral failings— it’s just a consequence of his environment. He’s a bad person because he won’t confront this, develop a moral code, and act on it, not because he doesn’t experience empathy.

But in his circumstance, there’s not really a chance for him to choose to be good. Because he’s still trying to survive, and goodness is a luxury he doesn’t realize he can afford now.

He’s scum, but pitiful, you know?

[bumblingbabooshka]

[Tuvok & Janeway: Control, Distance, Duty & Connection.] Sources: St Voyager Transcripts / Mitski 'First Love Late Spring' / Disco Elysium

[orionangeline]

I love dunmeshi bc the fandom is like yeah when they're asking if eating the dragon that ate falin is cannibalism it's cannibalism foreshadowing and then you get the senshi backstory and think you're safe but :)

[leftneb]

uhh WIP but I haven't really got the composition to look the way I want it to yet. no I don't prioritise lighting above all else what could possibly make you think that

did this mostly as a distraction (am flying a route I've litterally flown completely alone before I have NO idea why I'm nervous but it's driving me up the walls)

[essayofthoughts]

Genuinely, I think one of the most fun and crunchy things about any character is

How far they will go for things they want

What they will do to get things they want

Things they won't do, no matter how much they want what they'd get in exchange

Because these things tell you some very important things about the character, namely their limits, their price, and their absolute No's. (And it lets you create some really REALLY crunchy conflict)

[tatck]

I wanna say eggman is the most changed in my au, but then again he's not. but he is.

[science-lings]

I love looking through the AA transcripts bc I wouldn't have known that Phoenix does Ryunosukes nervous eye thing during Turnabout Goodbyes if you fuck up a certain part of the courtroom segment.

Judge: Your eyes have a habit of shifting back and forth when you're uncertain. Try taking a deep breath, and think this over once more. Phoenix: R-right, Your Honor.

this interaction is so Ryunosuke coded and I never would've known about it if I wasn't so intent on not relying solely on my memory for writing fics

[instantpansies]

oh holy fuck. the tumblr strawmen are real. aimlessly scrolling insta reels and under some silly clip of rhett and link there are multiple people saying they "find all the shipping stuff uncomfortable bc it's incest coded" - meaning the actions that rhett and link themselves take, as well as the fandom. we're cooked. we're cooked. ah yes, of course, intentional comedic fanservice from two men who are not related to each other is, morally speaking, incest. of course. fucking hell dude lmao

[splendontcore]

some funnies to heal my oopsies

originals under the cut

[ckcomics]

Ink Test: Kill this guy

Based on this comic by @hausofdecline

[punkeropercyjackson]

Boutta check in my brutal honesty autism card and say that Hobie's big ass crush on Gwen was NOT subtle at all,he was being so classic 'cocky flirty punk dude' with her and gave her his sweater to borrow which is like the biggest unspoken 'i wanna be your boyfriend' move in the book,and neither was the (probably) accidental subtext of him liking Miles too that follows 'edgy and hardcore boy who's actually a huge softie has a thing for the cutesy and innocent ray of sunshine and is more protective and complimentary towards them than he is anyone else to show it' to a fuckin' T4T and the only reason people don't read it as either is that he's super handsome so they decided that meant he's a grown man instead of the cute lil black boy he is

[sleepy-doobles]

I have reasoning for this I promise

[propalitet]

"Oh I love sharks they're nice but I hate dolphins they're evil"

How do you miss the point so bad. The whole idea of sharks not being evil creatures comes from our understanding that animals DO NOT HAVE A MORAL CODE, sharks aren't good or bad just like dolphins aren't good or bad. People talk about sharks in a good manner because we have deconstructed the false narrative created about them through the film industry which led to devastating consequences to their population. If you start talking about dolphins the same way people used to talk about sharks it's just a domino effect.

It's not the dolphins fault the film industry made them out to be these lovable friendly characters. It's your fault however if you base all of your "facts" about dolphins on a tiktok video you saw where someone just listed "why dolphins are evil"

Please turn on your critical thinking.

[autisticcole]

Heheheheheho I have gotten some of the Dragon Age books (🏴‍☠️) and this is gonna really let me dig into some stuff, especially my favorite guy Cole, cause now I can read his OG appearance, I want to see how much stuff Cole says, especially during his quest actually makes sense, and how much is in-universe "both sides are right"ing about not listening to what Cole wants to do.

I am mainly talking about Spirit!Cole thanking Inky for not making him change... Despite the fact that thoughout Cole's quest Solas ignores what Cole wants (Like being binded) & wants to do (Kill the guy who beat beyond beating a 12 (at most) year old (most likely, it isn't outright stated (to my memory) the Templar who fucked up the paperwork was also one of the ones who physically abused him, but I feel it's a pretty safe assumption) & got that child killed due to neglect & faced no consequences) but ultimately the choice that causes Cole to thank the player for not changing him is the one where you listen to Solas over Cole (Or well Varric, who also doesn't let Cole do what he wants but is closer to what Cole would have done if he had went alone for the confrontation) & in this route I would say Cole's character changes a lot more, especially as he forgets the original Cole, which... Rubs me wrong, but I'll save my more detailed thoughts for 1. After I fully read Asunder & 2. Either a full Cole analysis or a detailed post about my thoughts on his quest & routes (& maybe how I'd rewrite them, as a Autistic person & a ally to the aroace community)

Anyways my point is that I want to see how true it is characters rejected or wanted to change Cole, I want to see what leads him to feel that having two men argue & tell him who he is supposed to be & do only to have a third person decide out of those two's options for what he should do is remotely a situation where he's been accepted.

[whumpbug]

in dearest response to our silly crossover shenanigans:

lemme hear it!!! what do they think of my guys!!! i must know!!!!! <3333

YIPPEE!!!!! YIPEE!!!!!!!!!!! (haha i beat u too it)

about jj:

like you said, gene really likes that kid. he thinks he'd well-mannered and polite, but obviously a little reckless and he finds it endearing. i think he is able to clock the Tiredness in jj's eyes though, and knows he's been through more than he is letting on. still, he respects him and enjoys the fact that jj is able to act a bit more like a kid around him. he sort of reminds gene of himself when he was younger. he does the Dad Older brother thing where he just pats him firmly on the back whenever jj Does Anything. its endearingly awkward

(if gene found out about the four-wheeler thing, he would give jj a very Strong talking to. thats very dangerous buddy)

cassidy really likes jj too! he likes his attitude and his work ethic and moral code and overall thinks of him as a pretty stand-up guy. he appreciates his dedication to carrying out the mission and helping others because its something he takes very seriously as well. i need a dance off between them IMMEDIATELY. cassidy gets VERY competitive very easily and i think jj is his biggest threat to being the Best Dancer In The Room

about morrigan:

they,, they kind of creep gene out at first. especially if we're considering the time period difference. something about the way that fellow moves and looks is just. off. they're too clean and too perfect. gives gene the heebie jeebies. once he gets a bit more acquainted with them, he starts to see them for who they are and he comes to like their demeanor. he will never get over they way their eyes are though. it sends shivers down his spine.

cassidy's sole goal in the beginning is to flirt with morrigan (platonically. if that makes sense.) they are very beautiful to him and their programmed flirting is really fun to riff off of (and make gene a bit jealous in the process, of course). as for their parallels, i think cassidy can see them but chooses to ignore it. he is aware of the irony of him and a literal robot having a eerie amount in common but he's still DEEP in denial. very much unwilling to admit montana's faults.

set i am genuinely having such a blast writing about our guys. our sillies!!!! in your words, they are TURNING in my mind. spinning, perhaps. twirling even.