#dema theories

[suns-blood]

OK but can we talk about paladin strait? Like from the lyrics we can gather that clancy climbed the tower to challenge nico but before nico starts speaking there's a door opening sound??? What is that about??? My immediate reaction was "ooh he made the banditos up and was locked in his room the whole time" but that would be stupid and create more questions than it answers.

Also I wanted to mention that this entire song is very much morning coded which fits in so well with the night allegory, my second favourite allegory

[shesacarver]

late to the bingo card train BUT realized it’s not Too late . lore predictions upon ye

[doubttruther]

the strongest evidence for the ‘tyler isn’t clancy / clancy is dead’ argument is that he straight up says it in morph multiple times/ways:

[dangerousbandsymbol]

double meaning of psyche and the butterfly theory

so. butterfly theory. we know that the concept of psychokinesis (psychí kínisi) is going to be very significant in future lore and in defeating dema. the term is composed of two words from ancient greek, psyche (meaning soul) and kinesis (meaning movement)—soul movement, also known as the 'seizing' technique the bishops use to control people.

clancy, by acquiring this power in the latest letter/the outside mv, is 'transformed' into a weapon. metamorphosed, if you will.

"This small eerie island has made me a weapon. We both believe that we can use it to change the momentum of this war." 022 03MOON 18

now here's where the interesting part comes in: psyche (ψῡχή), in ancient greek, also means 'butterfly', and this is specifically extended from the meaning 'soul'. given the fact that tyler chooses words very carefully and charges them with as much meaning as possible (sai has like 4 different meanings: scaled and icy/clancy is dead/sai (weapon)/psi (greek letter & the band logo)), i think the possibility of this being a coincidence is very small.

we've already had a few things that could suggest that butterfly imagery will be relevant for the next era/album, such as the LOC chrysalis keyword, tyler wearing a brand with a purple butterfly logo, and the pattern for doubt on the blurryface album resembling the pattern of a monarch butterfly wing, and the double meaning of 'psyche' only makes this theory more probable.

[moved-to-the-hype-on-tv]

GUYS GUYS I NEED HELP

i read somewhere that in the livestream experience the lights on the panel glow for sacarver because sally is there and (supposedly) for lisden cuz dan is there, and i was gonna make a theory about why nico's light also glows once, but i hit a wall--

LISDEN'S JUST DOESN'T????

help am i going blind or something

[useyourglutes]

!! CLANCY SPOILERS !!

OMFG THE VERY END OF PALADIN STRAIT?!?! IM SHITTING ASDFGHJ

"so few. so proud. so emotional. hello, clancy." OMFG NICO FUCK OFFFFFF

[aelinashryvergala]

ok hear me out:

What if Tyler and Clancy are the same person but different personalities?

• The whole dema story revolves around mental illness, such as d3pr3ssion, s3lf-h4rm and $uicid3. Why not a split personality?

• Clancy describes an out of body experience while he sees tyler being brought back to dema. What if he realizes that he and tyler are the same person?

• Clancy and Tyler have similar life paths (run away from dema, get brought back). What made me wonder is: Clancy writes about having to write shows for the Bishops during SAI, but not that he has to perform anything.... maybe because it's Tyler who is in the foreground at this point?

• Maybe "Clancy is dead" stands for tyler repressing this personality to the point that Clancy can't surface but tries to give hints ("still alive").

• The "I am Clancy" video could then stand for the fact that Tyler is now aware that Clancy is there and exists and takes on this personality or that Clancy was able to surface again

[poptivist]

bonus:

[artist-issues]

Hey. Twenty one pilots decoders. Where are you at on the numbers/letters all over those straps the band is wearing during the Overcompensate music video, and on the album art?

I can read "CLANCY" but that's the only thing I have clear. Also what's projected on the wall/his face behind them? Is it one of his letters we've already read, or something new? Decoders, where y'all at?

[shslcryptido]

OMG OMG NEW TOP SONG OUT!!

I feel like the adidas track jacket line feels very out of place and kinda takes me out of it BUT having said that, I LOVE the new song. And the track jacket line DOES kinda bring in an element of realities being connected which i feel we haven’t seen very much of. ALSO i have a theory about the red!! So they wore yellow during trench because the bishops can’t see yellow so they highlighted what was important with yellow to hide. But the bishops CAN see red so why red? I believe that they’re now wearing red to MAKE SURE the bishops see them. They are DONE running. DONE hiding and they want everyone to know, especially the bishops. And the scene where they are mimicing what tyler is doing (corazon part) is showing that not only are they done hiding they’re also now teaching others how to rebel and break out from their oppression. AHH I CANT WAIT FOR THE FULL ALBUM AHHHH

[twentyonepilotslore]

FPE!!!

Ned’s Bayou

9 Bishops Brand

(And this one might be a reach) 9 for 21 (9 bishops, twenty one pilots)

also jim dun mentioned!!

[suns-blood]

Something just occurred to me, that also supports the double album/ep theory (that's becoming more and more plausible every day). I was on reddit reading some comments and a comment included a quote that basically said "the next album will centre around the lore and be very up front about it."

Except this album wasn't that lore heavy. We got 3 lore centered songs (though a lot of the other songs have references to lore or could be interpreted in a certain way) and that is not a lot compared to the 6-ish lore songs we got from trench (some songs border on being lore based, such as neon gravestones). So the explanation I like is that more lore songs are on the way. Maybe they didn't want to make the non-lore fans feel excluded so they held back on the lore now but are gonna feed us, starving theorists, later? Idk it's 1am and I have a headache

[teeentyonepilots]

Hello, there! I'm sorry to pester you with this, but if possible, I was hoping that someone more well-versed in the Trench lore than me, might help me figure out something that's been bugging me:

In the Overcompensate video, we see apparently two Clancys: The one still at DEMA, wearing the mask, and the one at the very end of the video, who is with the Banditos. I'm assuming that the Clancy at the end of the video is the real one, so do you think that means the other one is a projection or clone? Or maybe a person who just happens to look like him, that he Seized?

I've been scratching my head for days, so I'd love to hear any theories or ideas you might have!

Hello! Happy to answer, and people can add on if I’m missing details.

After the submarine crashed during the Saturday mv, Tyler/Clancy and Josh/Torchbearer ended up on Voldsøy which is an island across the Paladin Strait, near the main Trench continent. During the Outside mv, they wander until they found a cave with multiple Ned creatures. (Outfit change into the black outfits with capes— Voldsøy Torchbearer as Tyler indicated). Clancy joined them in a circle and drank from a cup with the creatures and followed them out of the cave where he was gifted a set of their antlers. He then discovered that he now had Seizing powers with those antlers. Clancy seized presumably Nico who had gotten stabbed to death by the other Bishops. He woke up Nico and made him smash the neon vials.

At the end of the video, Clancy and Torchbearer hold up torches and signal the Banditos on the opposing coast, who return the light signals. They’re going to lead the revolt.

So that takes us to the Overcompensate video. As we see at the end, Clancy and Voldsøy Torchbearer have rowed a boat across the Paladin Strait back to the mainland. While Voldsøy Torchbearer is busy pulling the boat onto the shore, Clancy uses the antlers to Seize a random person in Dema in order to communicate the revolution to the citizens and get them to join. So I guess a little artistic license that the Seized person looks like Clancy though probably the person was wearing the mask the whole time. (Who knows, maybe Tyler Clancy is so powerful that he can transform the Seized person to look like him).

Then a trio of Banditos show up at the end of the Overcompensate video which transitions into Navigating mv. Clancy and Voldsøy Torchbearer are being led to the rendezvous place with the rest of the Bandito army. It’s only when they reach there that Tyler Clancy finds out that the Torchbearer who has been with him since the Saturday mv has been a projection of the real Torchbearer— Bandito Torchbearer. Now they’re actually really physically together with an army and the next stop is taking down Dema.

In summary— the Clancy in the cape at the end of the overcompensate mv is the real Clancy. He was Seizing a dead body throughout the preceding video, and that wasn’t revealed till the end.

Hope this explains it! Let me know if you have any questions.

[gonerbird]

Last post of the night (probably)

I personally really, really think that Nico wasn't betrayed/killed by all the Bishops. He was betrayed by Keons, and the lack of a mention of Keons along with the visuals playing during that moment just made it look that way, I think.

I just don't personally see why they would feel the need to retcon one of the most recent additions to the story/lore? I mean, when I watched the Heavydirtysoul music video, I obviously didn't think Nico was driving, because Nico didn't exist. Adding in that detail to HDS was informative and changes the original understanding I had of the music video. But The Outside is their most recent video, so I feel like he is more likely to know where the story is heading? Also, though this is weaker evidence, Tyler talks about Nico in the present tense instead of past tense.

I don't know. I just believe the video is trying to say that Keons betraying Nico allowed Clancy to escape, not that Nico is the one that the bishops killed.

Of course, everybody is obviously able to interpret the story their own way! If you think the video was saying something else, that's fine, who am I to tell you what to believe? This is in no way an attack or an angry rant, I'm just sharing my perspective!

[dangerousbandsymbol]

i know ppl have already talked about this but i wanted to dump my thoughts on the true east theory here for myself. so we know that the compass lies, right? east is up and all that. in NATN josh(torchbearer?)'s voice says at the very beginning "you will leave dema and head true east".

the thing is, east probably isn't "true east"—especially after dema has taken the east is up symbol and corrupted it into the sai/psi symbol. if we turn the compass 90° anticlockwise, with east pointing up, then the "true east" is... south.

what is to the south of dema? voldsøy.

as you can see in the updated map, east is pointing upwards, so south is east instead.

there are also a few lyrics that talk about going south:

a car, a torch, a death

the judge

so yeah. feel free to add to this post with more info/theories/interpretation if y'all want to!

[moved-to-the-hype-on-tv]

excuse me, how tf does torchbearer have clancy's mask at the end of navigating????

where'd he get that from