#deepsight

[thefirstknife]

Hey, just a funny little question, you know how we can use darkness to see memories in which queen? Is that how we “read” about the lore tabs on weapons and armor, and all that junk? Or is that just a neat game mechanic that won’t be explained in lore.

Also, love what you do!

Thanks!

It's not how we read lore! Lore comes in different formats; if a lore tab is something like a report or an actual text/letters being sent, then we just read it because it's a text. For example, Hidden reports can be read because they're reports, and it's also well known that people in-setting can read Books of Sorrow and Unveiling because they're actual texts in universe too. If a lore tab is just an event, then our characters technically don't know about it unless someone tells them. It's basically just for us as players.

Deepsight is somewhat explained as an inherent ability of the Darkness to see the memory of an object or a place. This is why it's used in crafting. We're using deepsight to see what the weapon actually looks like, then reforge it from that memory. It can also affect the perception of things in front of you which is why it can be used to hide things or reveal real paths. Experiments with it and some insight into it is given in the lore book Mnemosyne from WQ. Also from this quest step in WQ in post-campaign: both are tied to the Altar of Reflections:

One of the files seems much denser than the others. A closer look reveals it's an abstract on Deepsight, written by Eris Morn. "The nature of this power supports our hypothesis that Darkness is specially bound to the consciousness that stretches in webs across space and time. This makes it uniquely useful for an investigatory process. However, we have not yet fully explored its utility for reflection. Savathûn's Altar is one example of Deepsight's potency in this regard. The wounds spanning the desert suggest the Witness engaged in a similar process with Mars; retreading old ground to forge new paths in the future.

Also mentioned by Fynch in regards to qualichor:

"Ah yes, good stuff, Qualichor. Except not good, actually. Very bad." Fynch nudges a small vial to catch the single, putrid drop your efforts have created. "Made from brain juice and nightmares. Yeah, it's liquid Deepsight, but brew it just right, and it'll 'bring memories into present reality.'

[speaker-of-the-void-cats]

Light of the Dark Sun

"What The Witness gave me, I give to you. May it serve you in death, or in finality. It cannot be both." —Rhulk, disciple of the Witness

Heard while scavenging a pile of dead Ghosts within the Throne World Pyramid: "Oh insatiable you—how many beats on the snare of self-righteousness will it take before you acknowledge all the avenues from which you stall the flow of things as they should be? "You do not see the collective obligation before you, the duteous burden that has rested on all sentient beings since time's origination—to ferry existence toward inevitable consequence: the final shape.

"Why do you unendingly insist on waylaying the machinations of every being with a worldview differentiated from your own? You lack respect. You lack direction. You seek only what you are guided to seek, and for that, you remain little more than an unrelenting nuisance. "I was like you once. Wayward. Driven to misguided perfection by the bubble society painted around me. But when I look back, none but one had the answers. None but one shed all the airs of any pretense of what the universe was supposed to be in the eyes of the infinitesimal individual—my Witness. "Through it, I found incentive. Clarity. Purpose. I sought to shed from myself the layer of barbarism that had pervaded my being for so long. I turned instead to the sophistication of infecting others with self-actualized corruption. "You see, total eradication may be efficient, but the goal is not to be the last one standing. Rather, it is to remove the obstacles that encumber you and those who remain from reaching your destination. "Annihilation of your kind was never the goal. But filling you with the right kind of ideological purpose, the kind that serves the finality of shape—well, that's the point of corrupting a beating heart, is it not?"

The hunger which derives from absence. Only sustenance can prolong it, yet nothing will ever satiate.

They already knew much about the Light. How it could bend the laws of the universe and create life. But they came to realize that it could bring ruin just as easily. The cosmic events it set in motion could wipe out entire civilizations in a heartbeat, without reason. And so they saw the Light not as a source of prosperity, but of unfettered chaos

By studying the Veil, they came to know the Darkness. A power that was shaped by thought and consciousness. And in the Darkness, they found the means to carve away the chaos of existence. To calcify it into a final shape. Eternal, and perfected.

—-We see unfinished business… We see a child seeking validation… We see great loss.—- (Content. Together. A fire burns bright. Our cavern is alight. We hide within it to keep safe—the hazy sky is outside, and surely there are some without shelter this night. Those who will be torn apart. By the wild. By the Umbral Sun. By those Lubraean guards who call themselves Stalkers, pursuing us on behalf of a brutal regime.) (Long ago, there were only Wanderers, surviving a harsh landscape covered with shifting, bloodthirsty flora. Surviving wildlife can flatten themselves until they are practically invisible—perfect at going unnoticed until they've split your skin and organs apart.) —-And now?—- (We are divided. Split by a shimmering orb that appeared briefly in our sky, as if having two suns isn't already crowded enough.) —-What of this shimmering orb?—- It was before my time. It came. We evolved. It left. Left us with a mess—those who believed in good progress. Those who didn't. Those who believed dwelled in the City. Controlled it. Filled it only with the light of the Sapphiric Sun and endless day to keep the horrors of night away, revealing the horrors among us. They pushed progress for the sake of the few while the rest of us took our chances under the alternating suns. —-And this shimmering orb you now see before you?—- (There it is. Shining like silver in the sky. Like the stories told.) Providing hope, then leaving everything to those who desire control but lack commitment and understanding. —-Look at them now.—- (Bodies. Limbs. Vaporized remains. A shattered sapphire. Lubrae irreparable. An Umbral sun, still shining darkness.) …What have I done? —-What was necessary.—-

(A shattered sky. A planet convulsing. Tearing apart.) (One Lubraean remains��me. But not for long. What have I done? I stare into the Abyss. It has opened—truly opened this time—to show me what lies beneath: death. I drop your Luster. I drop Lubrae's Ruin. I let myself fall in. And then I… I… and then I am… ) —————————————————————————————————————————————- Here. With you. My… Witness. —-And what do you feel now? Devoid of family. Devoid of The Regime. Devoid of Lubrae. What do you feel here, in our embrace, now that they are gone and you are left?—- Rhulk opens his eyes. Crawls forth through the blackened solution that engulfed him all this time. Emerges from the wall of obsidian-like miasma to find his Luster. To find Lubrae's Ruin. Taking them, he rises to his feet. —-What do you feel, my child?—- "Relief."

Through water and fire, we are shaped.

Despair. Doubt. Sentimentality. Weakness. We are above such… aberrations. We are the Witness. We are the first knife who cuts free the final shape. We have found the only answer to the only question. We are all that we were, are, and will ever be. We alone understand the meaning of eternity. We are perfect. We have no flaws. We will overcome this last, futile resistance, and we will do this properly, and then we will be as we have always been. We will have no dissenters, and therefore we have no dissenters now. We need more Light, just a little more Light. We will bend the Gardener's misbegotten tools to our will. We are almost there. We reach for the final shape, and we can close our fist around it. We will prove the lie of the Gardener's claim. We will refute its right to exist. We will give this universe the order it so desperately craves. We will make it right. We will save you all.

Two siblings cleaved by time and space, reflections never found alone,

The ending of the eldritch race—a path long seen but never known.

The Witness has made an old friend of Darkness. It knows intimately the language of warp and weft, how to weave a spider-silk notion or slip a needle of intrusive thought into the fabric of another's mind. In its hands, the Light should be alien and inelegant, the hammer and chisel so unlike its customary tools. But though the Witness has never wielded the Light like this before, parts of it recall a time when they made the Gardener's tools their own. But now that power is not freely given; now every stroke of the chisel is accompanied by a distant wail. A minor annoyance, at most. The raw material is mediocre, but a true artist can paint on any canvas. The Witness has far more vision than the feckless sphere it has superseded. -|A paean to our final work.|- It works in broad strokes first. Cuts away the excess. Peels back the integument and lays bare the shivering, raw meat of it. In it, the Witness sees a glimpse of the sculpture trapped inside, waiting to be freed by its hand. One assistant places the pins; another wipes away the effluvia. -|A form to teach our enemy fear. A shadow they will dread.|- The rough grows restless. It thrashes, threatening to upset the delicate work done so far. The Witness spares it a sharp, quelling look, and it stills. Nothing may distract the auteur from its work. Onward. It refines the form, tearing wings of muscle away from bone, carving down, down, until exposed marrow steams in the cold air. Its tempo increases, its motions grow sharper, until it is slashing wildly at its canvas. Its assistants tremble. They do not see that its expression is frozen in absolute serenity. It is as calm and clear-eyed as it has ever been, discarding yards of still-living tripe to reveal… -|Perfection.|-

Countdown to Convergence.

"Remember the First Calling."

Reshaping.

I.I As the old self falls away there will be only suffering. I.II None can sustain in the face absolution, yet evolution demands sacrifice. I.III Pain must be accepted as the new constant, or pain will be the all of you. I.IV As the white noise of your screams drowns the whispers, you will feel alone. You are alone. I.V Is this eternity or oblivion? I.VI You will see yourself—outside yourself—and you will long to embrace this new evolution—a beacon on the far end of lost hope. I.VII Yet, you will know—through the pain, through the fear—there is no longer a you that was, only what comes next, and all the pain to follow. "Do not linger on the coming embrace, your unmaking is yours alone—a solitary journey devoid of peace." —9th Understanding, 7th Book of Sorrow Any Guardian with interest in old nightmares has heard stories of the Weapons of Sorrow—deadly tools said to be infected and warped by twisted science verging on mysticism. In particular, Thorn, the cursed weapon of the Light-killer, Dredgen Yor. But such tools of destruction were only rumor. There was direct evidence of Yor having been a vile bastard, but the legends of his sickly weapon and the disease it spread seemed exaggerated—another ghost story to warn of unknown dangers. But our translations of ancient Hive text seemed to point to truth in the legend. The Hive had rituals for forced evolution. And what we'd found hinted at transmutation through corruption, degradation, and rebirth—the Weapons of Sorrow were real. Worse, they were a road map to a greater threat, a greater evil. And with this realization, our determination to uncover Yor's full truth was bolstered by new, terrifying questions. What if the horrors of Yor's deeds were not the end game? What if his evolution was simply the byproduct of a grander design? What if he was nothing more than a side effect of an ancient arms race, and the weapons we feared from days long past were nothing more than touchstones on a road map to devastation beyond anything we can imagine? What if "sorrow" was just a pit stop on the road to our coming annihilation? —hand-scrawled note accompanying Teben Grey's personal translation of ancient Hive text

I.I Look upon the world with new eyes and know that you see for the first time. I.II All of your time before now—every choice, every moment—was the antithesis of all you were meant to be. I.III To dwell on what was is the greatest sin. I.IV A new you hides, trapped and desperate to be freed in the instant beyond now. I.V Step confidently—forward into the unknown, beyond the present. There you will find yourself waiting. I.VI Evolution is constant for those who embrace tomorrow. I.VII Once unmade, you will be new, your eyes free to meet the lies of existence with unfettered judgment. "Only through new eyes can the burden of failed existence be cast aside that we may see—truly see—for the first time." —10th Understanding, 7th Book of Sorrow

That whisper of ideas beyond swords is here to stay: I have ensured this. Even among us, such things die by slow inches, excruciating and unquiet. Possibility remains, a secret woven into the blank spaces of dogma. That what was defeated may rise again; that the shape of all shapes is not yet settled.

The Witness is dead but the memory of its atrocities live on. The Valence radiates across the system; it is beautiful, majestic... but foreboding. Every action has a reaction. A consequence.

Energy does not disappear. Nor does memory, thought, emotion. Where does it all go? If the Traveler gives us life and possibility and we transmute it into being by living, what takes and holds it all at the end?

The Witness understood something about the Traveler, a greater truth held between Gardener and Winnower. Beyond it's petulant disappointment was fear of what it had glimpsed but not understood. And at Salvation's Edge, at the Traveler's core, it made an attempt to carve heresy in reflection of that warped verity.

We hold faith as a wall against fear, but it is built on shifting sands. When the truth arrives and the walls come tumbling down, that is when the righteous are separated from the lost. Think on yourself and the paths we have walked together, Guardian. Think on your truth, and make sure it has ties to those you hold dear. Because when soft belief collides with hard reality, we all need someone there to pull us out of the pit. We all need trust and hope.

—A Warlock seeking a hidden truth

Even the smallest pieces can change the outcome.

Credits: Destiny Emblem Wallpapers

[tempestswing]

Destiny crackpot theory: YW identity

Now hear me out, I don't think there SHOULD be one canon identity of the Young Wolf. OC guardians are way more fun. But if Bungie decides the player character needs more plot relevance and makes more concrete characterisation, here's my theory on how they could do that.

So, guardians don't have memory from before they die. But that part of them isn't dead, it's just deeply subconscious - see how memory is restored to both Savathun and Crow. Is it possible that in a future expansion, the memory of pre-resurection might be returned to the Guardian? If so, might they be a plot significant character?

I believe yes. And I have a guess for exactly who - former Queen's Wrath, Sjur Eido.

"But tumblrdotcom user tempestswing, Sjur Eido is a very specific awoken woman! What if you're playing an exo, male awoken, or human?"

Good question, voice in my head. I had the same one, since my character is also an exo. To answer it, I will refer to Destiny's enigmatic entities known as the Nine.

See, the circumstances of Sjur's death are very vague, but we know the Nine were involved. We know also that Sjur had a vision of being trapped in a labyrinth but trying to break free whilst Mara fought pyramids.

We know of no labyrinthine structures. But what if it's a metaphor? That Sjur is trapped within the subconscious of a guardian. How can it be a guardian with a very different physiology? Nine magic. We know they can fuck with bodies - see Xur, who was probably a regular citizen of Neomuna once upon a time (Jovian refers to Jupiter specifically, but in Astronomy can actually refer to any gas giant - and we know there were people on Neptune). They changed Xur into a tentacle faced monstrosity, and Orin not as much, maybe they changed Sjur into whatever the guardian is so she wouldn't be recognised.

I dont actually think this is what bungie will go for, especially since it'll have consequences for a lot of plot lines, especially the Mara stuff. Guardian Sjur is a fun concept though

[scrivenger-arts]

Alurion Deepsight

[lyriumsings]

destiny is severely pissing me off how tf am i ever supposed to get the stupid fucking flame in alters when you can’t queue it alone and every single fucking one i queue it they already grabbed the one deepsight that spawned jesus fucking christ

[mino-is-tired-snoork-mimimimi]

yooo this is kinda unrelated but I think I might have one of your dragon's great great grandchildren or smthn???

Drew one of my Skydancers

Here's his page:

[blazeshardcat]

realistically, cayde would be pretty apprehensive about learning to use a darkness element. he didn't see the first touches of using darkness from shadowkeep, how guardians honed their minds to use stasis, the use of deepsight to defeat savathun, and the meshing of forces that resulted in strand, all across years of slow buildup and normalization

he wouldn't be AS scared of it as zavala initially was, especially considering the weirdness he'd been surrounded in since he was revived, but he'd be more along the lines of "nah, I've got my ace right here. that's all I need" to politely deny any offers to teach him darkness elements

.

.

until you'd show him how to roll a roll a sick strand blunt then do a grapple swing into a twisting backflip & 360 a thrall in the head with a sniper

and then he'd say "Ok, I guess a little wouldn't hurt" moments before he's swinging off the tower walls like spida man

[destiny-aesthetics]

Things I, as a Casual Veteran Guardian, embarrassingly just learned.

• The skulls in the Xur's treasure room, are actually there. Wasn't people trolling. It's just one Guardian per instance can collect them and there is no triumph.

• Non Red-border weapons can still give patterns, you just have to apply Deepsight on them first

...

I've dismantled so many guns, trying to get God rolls or red-borders (⁠╥⁠﹏⁠╥⁠) since I've learn this the gun I need will not drop. RNG is truly Savage.

[the-whatcherof-89]

LDShadowlady aka Lizzie “Elizabeth” D.Titania Queen of Animalia.

CR 18 NG Medium Humanoid (Native Outsider Shapechanger)

XP 153,600 (if used as npc for encounter)

Undine Animal lord(Cat) Druid(Pack Lord)16

Neutral Good Medium humanoid (Native Outsider Shapechanger)

Init +8; Senses Perception +37

AC 28, touch 19, flat-footed 22 (+1Natural, +6Dex, +8Armor, +3Deflect) hp 187 (16d8+187)

Fort +18, Ref +15, Will +20

Speed Land 30ft, Climb 20ft, Swim 30ft. Melee Bite+18 1D6+6, Claws+18 1D4+6, Trident+19 1D8+7, Spells. RangedCrossbow+23 1D10+3, Spells.

Racial Amphibious, Deepsight, Hydrated vitality, Water sense, Scent, Low-light vision, Climb speed, Pounce, Rake, Natural attacks(Bite 1D6, Claws 1d4), Leap(+16 Acrobatics), Dominion(speak with animals Charm animals CL16th), DR10/silver.

Traits Natural-born leader, Lovesick.

Class features Pack-bound, Wild emphaty, Nature sense, Woodland stride, Trackless steps, Resist nature’s lure, Wildshape 6/day, Venom immunity, Thousand faces, Timeless body.

Animal companions Sea cat(lv8th) Leopard(lv8th)

Spellcasting CL16 DC18 Domains Daily spellcasting 4/6/6/6/6/5/4/4/3

0-Detect magic, Purify food and water, Create water, Read magic, Mending.

I- Goodberry, Entangle, Barkskin, Mud ball, Negate aroma, Cure light wounds. 

II-Animal aspect, Barkskin, Warp wood, Lay of the land, Restoration lesser, Tree shape.

III-Air geyser, Cure moderate wounds, Cloak of winds, Resist energy (communal), Magic fang greater, Call lighting.

IV-Aggressive thundercloud (greater), Cure serious wounds, Dispel magic, Freedom of movement, Reincarnate, Thorn body.

V-Call lighting storm, Cure critical wounds, Hungry earth, Animal growth, Stoneskin.

VI-Dispel magic greater,  Sirocco, Wall of stone, Move earth.

VII-Animate plants, Heal, Sunbeam, True seeing.

VIII-Earthquake, Whirlwind, Mass cure serious wounds.

Str 20, Dex 26, Con 22, Int 16, Wis 26, Cha 20

Base Atk +12/7/2; CMB +15; CMD +23

Feats Cosmopolitan(Knowledge Nobility, Diplomacy, Giant, Alko), Steam caster, Leadership, Divine interference, Natural spell, Powerful shape, Craft wondrous magic items, Weapon finesse(Natural attacks).

Skills Acrobatics+31, Climb+16, Craft(Stone&Wood)+20, Diplomacy+18, Fly+12, Handle animal+12, Heal+12, Knowledge (Geography+7, Nature+20, Nobility+7), Perception+27, Perform(Dance)+16, Profession(Engineer)+27, Ride+12, Spellcraft+20, Stealth+15(+4 while in undergrowth), Survival+20, Swim+28.

Leadership score (22) Cohort lv14th Followers I-110 II-11 III-6 IV-3 V-2  VI-1

Languages Common, Aquan, Druidic, Sylvan, Draconic, Giant Alko, Feline emphaty.

Combat gear Trident of fish command, Animalia’s regalia: Striker(Frost Huntsman Heavy underwater Crossbow+2), 50+1 Corrosive bolts, Living steel sickle, Animalia regalia: Commander(Darkleaf Wild breastplate of command), Ring of protection+3, Headband of mental prowess+4(Int, Wis, Perception), Cloak of resistance+2, Boots of the cat, Amulet of mighty fists+1, Ring of the sea strider, Ring of energy resistance major(Electric), Rod of splendor, Sleeves of many garments, Undine chain belts, Tome of understanding+2(used), Potions: Displacement(2), Magic fang greater (2), 4 Potions sponges, Jewelry worth 300GP, Druid’s kit, 4705GP.

Background Elizabeth was a powerful queen whom ruled from her ocean palace over the kingdom of Animalia which respected animals above all else. There was just one SMALL problem: She fell in love with Joel ruler of the land kingdom of Mezlana. For a long time, both of them met in secret while sending each other letters using their secret names: LDShadowlady and Smallishbeans. Things changed when Joel ascended to “godhood” after he drank from a magical fountain. Drunk with power, she almost abandoned him for the new god was different from the gentle and friendly man that was once. When he lost his powers, and his kingdoms, Lizzie abdicated her throne to return to his side for she saw what truly that man was deep down. Along with their fellow Hermits Grian, Mumbo, Rendog and Impulse they left and got married and started a new life. Between the founding of the Pixel Pact(and his disbandment), her love for all fluffy creatures and dancing (sometimes awkwardly) with Joel she was having a good life building various nature-oriented builds. “A wish limited only by your imagination.” She was planting flowers near a vast riverbed when she heard the voice. “What would you wish for?” She thought it was a prank from his husband. “Well… since you insist my dear genie of the lamp… i wouldn’t mind returning to my old kingdom for a romantic date.” The sound if finger snapping was heard. “It is done.” She was instantly transformed and sent into another world never seen before, she was in an underwater palace, in a royal bedroom, very similar to her original one, but slightly different. “Let the game begin. If you want my wish you must find me. Your husband is also invited.” She jolted. “What did you just say?!” The door knocked. “Your majesty are you alright?” She turned around toward the door to then back to look for the mysterious voice, it was gone. She turned toward the mirror looking at herself in her royal outfit: “Well now, i am in DEEP SEA trouble am i now?"

THE IMAGE DOES NOT BELONG TO ME

LINK FOR THE IMAGE:

[thumbsart]

Having completed both the main campaign, and the post-game exotic quest, I feel like the biggest problem with the Veil/Mast/MacGuffin-y stuff is that this plot is just... incomplete. It feels more like this was supposed to be the Pre-Final Shape seasonal storyline, which would lead into the main expansion story. But with stuff cut for time or something.

Because, yes, nobody except presumably the Witness seems to know what the Veil even is so, obviously nobody can tell us. The post-game is centred primarily around investigating that in a way that I can only assume leads into Final Shape.

But the problem with centring your narrative around a device nobody understands is that the stakes of your plot are really badly defined. And that's probably why people are mad about how "the Veil is never explained!" It's not that we don't get a lore cutscene about the Veil, it's that we don't understand what we're trying to stop from happening. When a character says "We lost," but nobody knows what the villain actually did, it comes across as hollow.

(As an aside: for me, this drags down the narrative further because this exact thing happened in Witch Queen. We ran in to fix a problem we didn't understand, without thinking, and it turned out to be a ruse. Twice in a row. Almost three times, when you consider we nearly inadvertently helped Xivu Arath last season. The moment the Mast was stated to be a Light artefact, I realised we were being baited.)

I think Lightfall suffers for being part of a larger, potentially very good, story, stripped of that context, told poorly.

Ok so I’m gonna give my Take(tm) about Lightfall here. Where the entire internet can roast me I guess.

Full spoilers.

Disclaimers: it’s all my opinion, is clearly not very close to the opinion of various Big Destiny Content Creators, so I’m probably wrong. I could also be giving the team too much credit by inferring some things, sue me I wanna give them the benefit of the doubt and say some of it was intentional.

Listen, was Lightfall flawed? Absolutely, I will not try to say it was perfect or even that some of its plot points were done well.

But…

Look, I can’t help but think about people asking questions that I feel like have answers in either the story itself or the past lore.

The most… detestable thread (haha strand joke) I wanna pull at is the Veil. Now, yes, the fact that everyone seems to know what it is without expounding on it is deeply frustrating. I feel like not enough was said in the story itself. But. We do get some answers. The Black Heart from D1 is a failed copy of it, which likely points to the veil equating to The Pale Heart mentioned at the end of Witch Queen. That by itself isn’t much, but it is a start. Additionally it very much feels like a question intentionally left not fully answered.

Next, the Radial Mast, much like the Veil is something of a MacGuffin, but I think there are drops of info given. One, Ghost detects a strong Light signature when we enter the Typhon Imperator, yet it radiates the orange energy we associate with Darkness in the mission where Rohan dies. I think this points to a blending of the two, which was needed to “convince” the Veil to connect to the Traveler. Which leads to the Witness.

Much like Nimbus, the Witness is one of the few unequivocally good things about the expansion, in my opinion. The Witness is subtle, and I think influences things in a way not really appreciated. Firstly, the Witness remains confident that their plan will succeed despite clearly looking down on Calus’ lack of progress. This entity is omnipresent, powerful to an extent we haven’t really seen, and has constantly possessed our ghosts for various reasons. So I personally believe that most of the plan as we see it was a ploy. That said I think the Radial Mask could have worked but that it wasn’t load bearing towards the Witness’s plans.

We see the Witness egging Calus on, only resorting to threats what their motives are questioned. They have a deep tunnel vision as to achieving whatever it wants—something characters are trying to investigate, another question being gradually answered. And we know it doesn’t care about its Disciples. Eramis is just a tool, and Salvation is quickly made into more obedient soldiers. Rhulk was left to rot in a losing turf war in Savathun’s Throne World. Calus is no different. The Radial Mast was a focused of Dark and Light—which I believe is proved by the twin energy signatures. And so when it’s destroyed, the Witness instead has Calus go down there himself, likely aware that the Guardian would head down there as well. What does this lead to? Dark and Light unleashed in great quantities during the final battle. Which allows the Witness to possess the Ghost and establish the connection.

I think the Witness, as we’ve seen it is manipulative and powerful enough to concoct this scheme, to use both Calus and us as puppets.

Finally, Strand suddenly appearing makes enough sense to not bother me because two things were mentioned. Nimbus stated that they can’t normally see strand. Not like we do, the lines floating around. Additionally, the energy of strand was stated to come from the Veil (a paracausal thing that reminds Ghost of the traveler yet offers darkness energy. Another guess as to why dark and light were needed). I do not have direct sources but I have played the campaign twice, I’m sure I could find these instances. Therefore, only Neomuni were near Strand and its source and there was no paracausal being (especially no Guardians) that could see it or manipulate it.

All told, I think there are subtleties that went unnoticed in Lightfall. I don’t think it excuses the entirety of the expansion, but I think it offers more that was people see on the surface. I’m not trying to defend all of Lightfall, merely pointing out things that I liked that I haven’t seen being discussed by anyone.

[thewildnopeboat]

Guardian, digging in their backpack: Ghost, move.

Ghost, awkwardly shoved: ouch, hey! What are you looking for?

Guardian: Deepsight Harmonizer. I could have sworn I had one more...

Ghost: You used them all.

Guardian: What? No. Can't be. *has been pulling out old things from their backpack/inventory*

Ghost: Hey, put back my sandwich

Guardian: You don't have a mouth, why do you have a sandwich?

Ghost: You have a mouth, and all you do is sass me about my sandwich and forget that you used the Deepsight Harmonizer.

[speaker-of-the-void-cats]

Chiasmus

There's something that's been knocking around my head for a couple years now about Destiny's general narrative structure, and this entry brought it to mind and made me think. Bungie is keeping secrets, not deep in the files but in things unsaid. In the telling of the story, below the event horizon. In the shape of it.

"Do you know how to make a strong password?" he asked. "I don't know if I do," I said. "Tell yourself a story," he said. "Use that one good story you'll never forget, that you can carry forever. Let your story take odd turns and wear a few surprising marks, make sure it belongs to you, so you can keep it secret."

This echoes something I believe said by Savathun that the greatest form of encryption is secrets, because they can only be unlocked by true understanding. When I think about stories like Truth to Power, there is such deliberate structure and subtext to them despite being confusing and intentionally obscured, and that structure is seen elsewhere in Destiny. We've even seen Ikora and Arach Jallal discuss the narrative structure, called "chiasmus."

REY >> JALAAL

We are headed inward, as if moving from parent to child universe.

Then we proceed in reverse. Savathûn is revealed to be a fiction of Dûl Incaru. Dûl Incaru a simulation by Quria, and so on.

So in the end, Truth to Power moves outwards.

Just as Savathûn plans to move. In from our universe and out to the Distributary—

Or out from our universe to its parent.

JALAAL >> REY

Oh. I see. I see! A literary structure like that is called a chiasmus, and chiasmus means "crossing point"! Like a wormhole or a portal! It was hidden in plain sight.

Chiasmus is a sort of chiral structure defined as a "reversal of grammatical structures in successive phrases or clauses – but no repetition of words", and this achieves a fascinating effect; it leads you down a path of understanding, and sometimes does so by leaving your understanding up to the inferrence of the structure itself rather than stating the point directly and then leading you there

This is a scalable and somewhat flexible technique that can be used in sentences, paragraphs, or whole texts to convey very particular meaning. It's even used in the national anthem of the Netherlands, the oldest living national anthem (this one is interesting because it bounces back and forth—verse 1 mirrors verse 15, 2-14, 3-13, and so on until they meet at 8). I believe something like this is the basis for the entirety of Destiny's story; start with two presupposed points set in stone, set one as the start and one as the end, hide the end, and then slowly build from there. Bungie gets a lot of guff for perceived retcons, but in the broad strokes, and thematically, when it comes down to it, they know their stuff and have always seemed to have a long view in mind.

Chiasmus derives its effectiveness from its symmetrical structure. The structural symmetry of the chiasmus imposes the impression upon the reader or listener that the entire argument has been accounted for. In other words, chiasmus creates only two sides of an argument or idea for the listener to consider, and then leads the listener to favor one side of the argument.

We begin with resurrection in D1, new life. There's hints of Darkness, but it's buried in the lore and is explicitly taboo. It's confusing, but we slowly learn to see the world from an all-Light perspective. Year 2 we learn about the basics of Darkness via the Sword Logic, the Hive, and the Taken. Then, we press on and lose everything in year 4. We begin to learn more and more until year 5, Forsaken. Year 6 we get the Luna Pyramid, Unveiling, and the arrival. Then, in year 7, we get to *use* the Darkness. In Year 8, we begin to learn about it and seeing the unseen from Savathun via Deepsight, before learning about the Witness. This is also when we see one of our enemies go the other way, crossing our path by going from Dark to Light. Year 9, we learn about the Veil and a new perspective on Darkness, and year 10 we return to the center to defeat the First Knife and are left with only echoes of its victims and the Darkness that bound it

What is the main plan in Forsaken, year 5? For Uldren to enter the Watchtower with the Shard and the Darkness within him, where he unleashes the Voice of Riven, who acts as proxy. Riven enacts the curse upon her defeat, which is maintained inside Elusinia by Dûl Incaru, Eternal Return. Light and Dark to enter a hidden realm where a being in a tower creates a curse which is unleashed upon their defeat, and beyond which another being in a further nested realm maintains said curse. This is strikingly similar to the Witness: it enters the Pale Heart via the Traveler and the essence of the Veil, where it builds a tower and tries to make a sort of curse which infests the Heart. And when we defeated it, the energy from that process was released.

Guess what the mission where Crow entered the portal with the 15th Wish was called? Chiasmus.

Bungie loves secrets, but datamining makes them hard to pull off. They even put a reference to this in an unnamed entryegg in the API for Truth to Power:

O you wonderful curious things. Do you believe you're the only ones with the power to see what should not be seen? Did you believe you can use such power blithely? For your trespass, I would ruin your luck, wreak havoc on your drops, poison your engrams, and fill your lines with static. Thus I would curse you and dissipate the bond that ties you to your tasks. How frail you Guardians can be! How many millions have fallen silent, never to return, because the bond did not hold them strongly enough? But you have already cursed yourselves. You have walked the Anathematic Arc and glimpsed creation from below. You will never forget the tenuous, provisional framework you found here. You will never forgive the mortality and fallibility that underlies a world you thought was everything. Those who use this power to seek unearned knowledge will see more than they ever desired. There is a price for glimpsing the Cord. You will pay it.

This episode, we're learning about Maya, who has a direct link to the Veil, Vex, and Darkness via Clarity ("Take me to the garden’s seed. Take me. Take me. Take me. Take me. Take me. Take me. Take me. Take me—"), and now this strange Pyramid in act 3 of Echoes. Next, we have Fikrul, the Scorn (Dark Ether), and Mithtrax (Curse of Nezarec). And then we're ending on the Dreadnaught with Savathun, who hid the Veil, and Xivu Arath, who wants to emulate Oryx, the First Navigator with the implication that we will become Navigators. We reached the end of the line in defeating the Witness, but now we're beyond it. I think we're about to come full circle and see secrets beyond even the Veil.

Something else I like about this idea on a narrative and meta level; if the beginning and end of this leg of the story is already decided by its inherent structure, like life, then anything we do is futile. We will wind up there eventually, as everything does in the end. The only difference is the path we walk to get there

I. Guardians make their own fate. But what if the process by which they decide upon their own fate could be understood and manipulated?

But we are transcendent now; we walk a path as yet unimagined by both Light and Dark. What we do now— unshackled from HOPE—that is who we are; because only in the end are we free.

I.VII The cutting word is a doorway—the first syllable of hated salvation.

Better make sure you've got a strong password, wouldn't want to spoil the unveiling.

"What are you thinking about?" I asked. "When I was a little boy," Father said. "During the Before," I said. "Yes." He reached down to brush my hair. "I was recalling how very smart I used to be. When I was your age, I was a genius." "You're smart now," I said. He laughed hard. "Look around," he said. I always look around. "Miss nothing," he told me. Father was standing beside a big gray building. "This is what I want you to see," he said. The building had no doors or windows. "Do you know how to make a strong password?" he asked. "I don't know if I do," I said. "Tell yourself a story," he said. "Use that one good story you'll never forget, that you can carry forever. Let your story take odd turns and wear a few surprising marks, make sure it belongs to you, so you can keep it secret." Father kneeled, putting our faces close... "I want to show you something special," he said. "Something rare." I tried to imagine what that might be. "No," he warned. "You can't guess." Inside the gray building was a diamond wall...A projected sky floated above us. It wasn't our sky, alive with metal and light. Nothing about the grayness was wet and nothing looked alive. I had never seen a sadder piece of ground. "This was our world," Father said. "When I was your age." I touched the diamond wall. He watched my hand jump back. "Hot," I said. He laughed quietly. I shook my burnt hand, and it felt better. "Our world was this. The entire planet was a furnace. Acidic. Dead in so many ways. And I was your age." I was bored with the dead world. I looked at Father's face, asking, "Can we leave?" He started to reach for my hair again but decided not to. I was bored with everything. "When I was your age, people thought they knew almost everything. We had scientific laws and human truths, even a model of the universe. People carried pictures of the past and tried to have a clear vision of their difficult future. I didn't know everything, of course. But when I was a boy, I had every expectation of living a smart short life and learning quite a lot more. "Then the Before was finished. "You know why. "That's when everybody, particularly the smartest of us, learned that we knew nothing. We were children and our little ideas were toys, and the universe was cut apart with great ideas and magnificent, immeasurable potentials." Father stopped talking. I stepped away from the hot diamond wall. "Do you know what I wanted to show you?" Father asked. "Dead rock," I said. "Guess again." He wasn't happy with me. We stepped back into the real sun, the real world. I blinked and looked around, surprised by how green and bright everything was. How happy everything was. Even the saddest face was happy. "I know what you want me to see," I said. "Don't tell me," he said. I didn't tell him.

[thefirstknife]

I wish the deepsight harmonizers were available outside the season pass already, some weapons you just have absolutely abysmal luck on which is even worse if you hate the grind for them. (Not so bad if you love whatever drops them and want to run it a lot no matter what but those are also prooooobaly not the weapons you're using a harmonizer on in the first place XD) (...Of course I don't want them to be *paid* content...)

That would be a really nice thing to do overall. I would love to see them being somehow earnable in gameplay. Like how we earn ascendant shards and alloys and stuff like that, harmonizers could also be earnable. They're fairly limited per season: 3 for free on the pass and 6 total if you have the pass. That's either one full weapon or a few red borders to progress multiple weapons.

It would be a good idea if players could get more of them or earn them somehow, 100%.

[mantleoflight]

Echo watched the proud figure of the First Disciple, measuring him, gauging him. There was no doubt he and others looked on guardians like her as specs or nuisances. Eramis saw them as detestable "machine spawn". Ghaul had apparently seen them as no more than creatures undeserving of the Light. And the Hive? Well, they probably saw guardians as nothing but food at first, but they were starting to learn.

She gave a soft chuckle, eyeing Rhulk almost mischievously. "Only to collect glimmer on the bets they made," she said with a shrug. "Otherwise, nah. If I call them, it'll be to start a fight, and I'm not here for that." Echo leaned forward on her perch, tempting herself to go nose-to-nose with the Disciple. "I'm here to learn."

Echo felt a twinge inside as she focused on Rhulk, tapping into the small corner of darkness in her heart where Deepsight and Stasis dwelt. She knew Darkness was dangerous but after mastering Stasis and Deepsight in Savathun's throneworld, it was proving to be far more useful than dangerous. She reached out to her Deepsight, giving a small wave of her hand before withdrawing it.

Echo watched as the Disciple approached, his yellow eyes fixed on her as her blue optics fixed on him. He was tall and regal, as proud in his posture as she was scrungly. It was like a raccoon meeting a duke or something! She grinned at her own mental comparison as she made her own notes on the gargantuan figure.

Fire engine red covered his elegant body, though it was marred or maybe accented by the web of black scars that threaded across his shoulders and thighs. They almost looked like roots or veins and gave him a more ominous look. She'd need to ask him to pose for her some time so she could draw him! Get down the lithe figure that booted so many guardians across the way.

Echo leaned back on her haunches and laughed lightly. "Coward? Ha! I just wanna know how you did it! As a hunter, I'm a firm believer in the old adage of 'live today, fight tomorrow'. Cowards yield and run away, then grovel when they're caught. We've got an Eliksni stuck on Europa who fills that category. Nah, you fought and got away with your life. That's a skill anyone with a brain should use!"

The exo paused and looked up at the Disciple's rectangular head and held out a friendly hand. "Name's Echo, and you?"

[eosofspades]

so i'm seeing some ideas going around that this (horrifying) scene from the trailer -

- isn't our Ghost, but a Ghost, and i wanna talk about it.

i do think this is our (the player's) Ghost, for a couple of reasons! for starters, there's the obvious - the classic shell they use for The Guardian's Ghost in trailers, the Guardian being a Titan (also what Bungie tends to depict The Guardian as in trailers), the fact that in a trailer of this significance, it seems really unlikely that they'd be showing us something as intense as this with an unknown/unnamed character, etc.

but more importantly, a lot of people seem to be thinking that this Ghost and Guardian are... actually getting sliced up, which i don't think they are.

bear with me for a bit! while that's absolutely what looks like what is happening, i'm at least 80% certain this scene is going to be the Witness giving the Guardian a terrible vision/hallucination (similar to what happened in Shadowkeep where we encountered the Dark Guardian in the Black Garden.) and there are another couple of reasons for this!

(the rest under a read more - this one really got away from me.)

for one thing - purely from a technical standpoint - the Young Wolf and their Ghost just... straight-up can't die; at least not permanently, at least not yet. they're the player character; you're going to need them to actually continue playing the game.

(i've also seen people suggesting this can't be our Ghost from a technical standpoint because that would mean Bungie having to do the slicing animation for every single Ghost shell in the game, which, to be fair, is a completely valid assumption to make - but in my opinion, based on the sheer volume of detail within this game's scenery and animation, and the unbelievable attention to the smallest possible details that most players won't even notice - i would absolutely not put it past Bungie to put in that effort, and, moreover, i have another idea that goes hand-in-hand with the "this is a vision" thing; that they didn't have to animate every single shell - but i'll get to that in a bit.)

now, from an in-game perspective, it doesn't make sense to me to have this not be our Ghost, or to have it not be a vision. for one thing - if what the Witness is doing is actually slicing up all of these Ghosts and Guardians and ships, that's just… a little bit nonsense. yes, the Witness is unbelievably powerful and terrifyingly dangerous, but if it is actually capable of unmaking living, paracausal things with a single flick of its finger, that seems… unlikely in terms of power, at most, because if that’s the case there truly is no fight to be had. the Witness could obliterate the Guardian before we even had a chance to draw our gun. it just seems unrealistic that if the Witness was that overtly powerful, there could even be a compelling battle against it.

(it’s also worth mentioning that the Witness’ entire thing is visuals and appearances over actual physical confrontation. it doesn’t even appear in the flesh to Calus at all times - in fact, the trailer makes a point of showing that it speaks to him through a cracked mirror, and in the final Seraph cutscene that it appears to Eramis via a screen; there’s the fact that the Darkness is constantly waving around this motif of visuals and appearances (the Dark Guardian vision during Shadowkeep; Deepsight; the Nightmares on the Moon, etc.) and even that it’s name is the Witness - you get it.)

there’s also the matter of emotional impact. like, don’t get me wrong, this is fucking horrifying. actual, full-body dread and fear at this scene when i first saw it. but you cannot tell me you would be just as distressed and unsettled if it were a random Ghost paired with a random Guardian we’ve never seen before - our Ghost has been getting so much character insight and development in the last two DLCs (his fear -> reluctance -> hesitant acception of the Guardian using Stasis, his complicated feelings regarding his faith in the Traveler explored during Witch Queen or his hostility -> understanding towards Fynch, etc.), i can’t imagine Bungie is going to give us this close-up, visceral, nightmarish scene with a Ghost we don’t know and have no attachment to.

(also, i made a post about this already, but in this trailer alone i am seeing SO MANY parallels to The Red War campaign - the fact that the Ghost and Guardian are in the exact same position as we were during the Red War intro is not lost on me. this also ties back into my “only animating one Ghost shell” thing - if it is a vision, i think it’s possible that the reason the Titan in the trailer is in “older”-looking armor is because you’re seeing yourself and Ghost in what could be a potential callback to the Red War - hence having Ghost be in the Last City shell, and the Guardian in “older” armor; because what’s happening here is not what is real; it’s supposed to be the Witness getting into your head. (or, again, maybe the Titan is just in that armor for the trailer and Bungie did animate the Ghost shells! at the very least, i doubt that having a non-player’s Ghost be in the Last City shell is probably not going to happen, since that’s the shell we tend to associate with our Ghost.))

what i think is actually happening here is one of two things: either the Witness giving the Guardian a horrifying “vision” in order to scare us/make us understand why it believes the Traveler heralds death and needs to be eliminated (i’m going to shamelessly plug in my obsession with Unveiling once again, but the Winnower explicitly explains to us at least couple of times that it believes existence is full of suffering and many things would be better off not existing at all to spare ourselves the torment. i can absolutely see the Witness trying to intimidate/terrorize us with a vision like this in order to get across its point that the Traveler will allow us to suffer and writhe and never be able to escape it.)

the other guess i have, which is unlikely but still something i think would be very very neat, is that - with the Witness’ whole shattered glass motif and the way its hands move, like it’s altering reality as it exists - it would be incredibly interesting if the Witness were actually “dismantling” us, so to speak - even if just for a moment, maybe before summoning us to the final confrontation of the campaign, just as a sheer power move. so when the Guardian gets there, they’re afraid and disoriented and unable to focus (this is, again, incredibly unlikely, probably, but i really really want to see some threats from enemies on an incredibly personal level. i have been dying for an enemy to get to us in an uncomfortably up-close and personal manner, or at least for the Guardian to have actual reactions to things. i would love to see another callback to the Red War, maybe, with the Guardian and Ghost collapsed and the Witness towering over them.)

obligatory disclaimer that i could always be wrong, of course, and if it turns out to be a random Ghost and Guardian getting ACTUALLY sliced up i’ll admit it and eat my words, but with what we’ve seen at this point in time, it really doesn’t make sense to me that it would be anything other than a vision being experienced by the player Guardian and our Ghost.

[catierambles]

I read someone describe Savathun's Throne World as Alice in Wonderland meets Hellraiser and I just...

a) I love this place, it's gorgeous

b) Mike having nightly dreams of a shining white city carved out of bone occupied by monsters, a Citadel in the distance. The city itself surrounded by swamp, but he can only see it, not being able to leave the city. The monsters with their three glowing green eyes don't pay any attention to him and he's grateful, because they're terrifying.

Until one night, he's in this surreal dream world and someone runs past him that isn't a monster, but they falter slightly before backtracking.

"You look out of place." They tell him.

"You can see me?" He asks and they nod, their face covered by a helmet and hood. "I don't think anything else can."

"Ghost, you seeing him?" A small sphere appears next to them, hovering next to their shoulder.

"Seeing who?" They ask.

"That's a no." They said and the talking ball vanishes. "Hold on a second, stay here." He's noticed odd spots in the air before, the air itself warped and he watches as they go over to one before making a gesture, a ripple moving through the area. "Extended the Deepsight Resonance. I'm guessing it's why I can see you. It allows me to see things that are otherwise hidden."

"What is this place?"

"Savathun's Throne World."

"The fuck is a Savathun?"

"The Hive God of Cunning."

"A what of what?"

"Ooh boy." They're suddenly hit with a blast that makes them jerk to the side and he watches them take an automatic rifle with a bayonet from their back, shooting with precision, the monsters he's seen dying riddled with bullets. "Rude. I was having a conversation." They go back to the warped air and do the gesture again. There's a ringing in the distance and they both look towards it. "What's that?"

"My alarm, I--I'm going to wake--" And he's gone, dissolving into mist.