#death of troilus

[angevinyaoiz]

Achilles x Troilus original flavor (overthinking and thinking about visual inspirations below the cut)

never know wtf these ppl should be wearing bc of the mix of eras in artistic depiction but inspired by the meme both what i thinknis the most common vase image i keep seeing

Plus the extremely phallic Sword Pointing combined with Rooster

Troilus in my mind is very indistinct shota-aged bc of the ambiguity but the meme requires a Specific Number Age for the “punchline” so I just went with that. Also bc the emphasis of the horror of the event is often on youth + the scandalousness of death of unarmed very noncombatant little boy (inpubes) so u know, exaggeration for tragedy, as seen in the top illustration which really emphasizes his tinyness.

In this comic he meets his famous fate….but what if…he didnt…read These doodles for more of his unfortunate adventures

[my-name-is-apollo]

I saw a Troilus post and that made me have Feels™ all over again. Something that particularly upsets me is the image of Troilus being dragged by his hair to Apollo's altar:

Like even putting aside the fact that Troilus, apart from being Apollo's son, is also a suppliant to Apollo here and to harm anyone in a god's temple is already an unforgivable violation of the sacredness of the place-

Troilus was a little boy or a youth at the most. His hair was most definitely sacred to him. It would have been cut and dedicated to Apollo, the protector of boys, if he had reached his adulthood. But he got dragged by his hair to his death, as if he was an animal being sacrificed to the god. Achilles didn't simply kill Troilus, he deliberately violated everything Troilus would have held sacred to him - his hair, his body, his god's temple...

Achilles had previously killed Tenes as well, another son of Apollo, despite Thetis very clearly warning him not to do so. So all of this was him knowingly spitting in Apollo's face, if you think about it.

[gingermintpepper]

Why did Apollo favor the trojans in the Illiad?

So, dear Anon, I've been thinking about how to answer this question since I got it a couple days ago and I think I kind of want to make something clear before I get into it.

The Iliad by itself as a poem only covers some of the events that occur in the final year of a long protracted conflict that had been brewing for at least two decades and was an active war for ten. Within the space of the Iliad itself, the motivations and affairs of the major players are often referenced but there are many, many parts of the story that are not there because they belong to a different story cycle that has been since lost or was never recorded with words. In the space of the Iliad Apollo's motivations are questioned a lot - his pride is questioned by Poseidon who thinks Apollo should be just as angry at the Trojans as he considering Apollo was treated equally as poorly by Laomedon while they worked together. His honour is questioned by Hera who chastises him for taking the Trojans' side when he'd proclaimed that Achilles would live a long life and prosper at Thetis and Peleus' wedding. His own sister calls him a coward for refusing to fight when Zeus gives permission for the gods to go wild on the battlefield. For all that there's this image of Apollo in the Iliad as some staunch and unwavering protector of the Trojans, believe it or not, I largely think of Apollo as neutral in the war.

Which, I suppose, comes back to the question - why did Apollo favour the Trojans? The truthful answer is that I don't know. The Iliad and all its connected stories isn't something I've done enough research on to have an answer or a reference to an answer off the top of my head. The reasoning I'm aware of is that Apollo was a Patron God of Troy and really a god doesn't need any reason besides that to protect his people but it's not like Apollo abandoned the Greeks either. Calchas is the biggest example of that I can point to - descended directly from a priest of Apollo and one who attributed his mantic power to the god, Calchas was pivotal in ensuring the Greeks even got to Troy in the first place.

From a personal perspective however, I think Apollo was more dedicated to the house of Priam than he was the city of Troy itself. Apollo's affection for that house and all its members ran deep - from his admiration of Hecuba and Hector to his love and attempted courtship of Cassandra to his blessings given to Helenus, Deiphobos, Cassandra, Troilus and even his partnership with Paris - Apollo loved the house of Priam. When you think about the times Apollo lashes out against the Greeks, it's generally because they've done some nonsense to earn his ire. The plague was caused by Agamemnon disrespecting his priest, his aid in the slaughter of Patroclus was because he didn't respect him, his minor grudge against Diomedes too was because he tried to test Apollo's mettle and well, the less said about Achilles the better. Apart from his obvious favouring of Hector in the skirmishes, Apollo doesn't really oppose the Greeks. He has a ton of reasons to by the time the Iliad rolls around, including avenging the death of two of his sons, but he remains mostly satisfied with conducting his father's business and overseeing the war from a somewhat professional perspective. To me, it's always been less about Apollo caring about the fate of Troy as a city itself and more about him just really wanting to protect the people in the city that he's come to love and respect.

Of course, I encourage you to take my words with a big tablespoon of salt - like I said, I don't really know enough about the facts in particular to give a solid, confident answer but I can give you my interpretation of it. Maybe consult someone like @littlesparklight for a more comprehensive and grounded response 🤔

[the-storyteller78]

Little Troy

TW: violence, death, child death

Troilus knows of the prophecy that sings his name. It is a promise of life, of victory.   

But he also knows that every time he looks in the mirror, he sees death.

[littlesparklight]

The Iliad: gruesome descriptions of lethal wounds, voiced with the narration's full chest.

Also the Iliad:

"Prophet of evil, never yet have you spoken anything good for me, always to prophesy evil is dear to your heart."

"Troilos the chariot fighter"

(Book 1 and 24, trans. Caroline Alexander)

Something something certain violence must only be looked at askance, mouth covered, whispered, denied, rephrased. It did not happen, or it happened but we can't admit that.

[mntds]

I think an unexpected advantage to Troilus and Cressida being so unpopular is that it’s one of the very few remaining Shakespeare plays where most audience members aren’t going to have any advance idea of what the plot is. You could be 100% familiar with the Iliad and have no idea what the story of Troilus and Cressida is. Fuck, I’ve met people who specialize in Troilus and Cressida who don’t know all of the plot beats of Troilus and Cressida.

[kuwupikaa]

Younger children of Priam you did not deserve all that😔💔

[glossc1]

apollo, achilles, and the death of troilus. REACH OUT, TOUCH FAITH.

[kindred-spirit-93]

a request of another kind if u may be so kind!

favourite quotes, vivid descriptions, mythos representation (or the lack of it lol) anything really; im quite curious to hear about the creative choices made. also things u didnt like! or would improve on etc. background characters, imagery, agamemnon hate go wild XD

Idk if tsoa is hated or inaccurate I love it sm

[amiti-art]

Troilus design! (ft best dad Apollo) He's around 12 years old here.

Researching Troilus' story is not an easy task because unfortunately most of the ancient texts focused on him didn't survive and others only survived in fragments.

This story is brutal even for greek mythology standards so please keep that in mind if you want to continue reading this or do more research on your own.

Something that all of the versions seems to agree on is that he was a Trojan prince, son of queen Hecuba and was killed by Achilles. His father was either Apollo or Priam (Apollo fits more with the context of the story though).

Most of the versions also focus on Troilus' young age and he's often shown to be visibly shorter than Achilles on the vase paintings depicting his death.

The most popular version of the myth (which is also supported by ancient vase paintings) states that Troilus and his sister Polyxena (she's not preset in every version though) went outside of Troy on their horses and while they were at a fountain Achilles ambushed them.

Achilles then chased Troilus who tried to hide inside of Apollo's temple (possibly seeking his father's protection) but Achilles caught up to him and murdered Troilus either inside or in front of the temple and then brutally mutilated his body.

There 2 alternative reasons given for the murder:

1. There was a prophecy which said that if Troilus reached 21 years of age Troy would never fall.

2. Achilles fell in love with Troilus, tried to force himself on him and was enraged when the boy refused his advances. (This version seems to have more surviving evidence)

It could also be that the only reason that Achilles killed Troilus was the fact that he was a Trojan prince and therefore an enemy but this does not seem to fit with the brutality of the act.

Here are some vase paintings that show Troilus' death at the hands of Achilles

[ancientautism]

Ive fallen down a rabbit hole of the death of Troilus, and how his death in of itself was one of the most brutal and tragic deaths in Greek mythology.

Troilus was a youth, a boy, a child. In most of his depictions, he is small, effeminate,beardless, and most importantly, he has long hair. In ancient greece, young boys would cut their hair when they ce of age as an offering to Apollo, the god and protecter of young boys.

This is partly what makes his death so tragic, as his hair is what Achilles grabs him to overpower him. Achilles abuses one of the most important features of a young boy, which is made worse by the fact that this is done in the temple of the very god this hair was one day going to be offered to.

Achilles lusted after Troilus, and was swiftly rejected for his efforts. This lead to his brutal beheading, mutilation, and possible rape of the young Trojan prince. Troilus is slaughtered like a sacrificial animal at the alter of Apollo, his father, his patron, and his protector. He is killed inside his father’s temple, a sacred place where he should’ve found sanctuary, but no. Achilles was a fickle, emotional man and he did not take lightly to the insult of rejection.

Troilus was a child, a son of Apollo, who was unjustly executed in his own father’s temple by a man with bruised pride and a lust for blood.

(I forgor to add some stuff whoops)

The fact that Troilus is depicted as so much smaller than Achilles highlights his youth and innocence, and emphasises the brutality of his death.

It is important to note that there are very few primary written sources for the death of Troilus. He is barely mentioned in the Illiad and most of what we know or have inferred about him comes from either artistic depictions, fragments of text, or later retellings.

Troilus was originally only a son of Priam, not Apollo. His divine parentage is an addition made by later retellings and interpretations. Despite his relation to Apollo being an interpretation i personally prefer, the tragedy of his fate still remains as the son of Priam.

Troilus represents the city of Troy. His name may be a reference to the two mythological founders of Troy or a reference to Troy itself.

His death symbolises the futility of the Trojans defending their city. Troy will fall, Troy will die brutally and tragically regardless of how hard the Trojans resist. The death of Troy was inevitable, just like the death of Troilus.

[hyacinthusmemorial]

TW: Mentions of SA

In my works, and other places, people have been asking me my opinion on Achilles attacking Troilus. I would just preface I’m not an expert on the Trojan War. I was sick the week we did the Iliad in high school and they made me perform as Odysseus when we read the Odyssey and i had no clue what was happening, but I am in the process of reading it now.

I think if you are studying these events from the perspective of the god Apollo, then Achilles kind of loses his Brad Pitt appeal that the movie Troy (which I have never seen) gives him. So if Achilles is your guy, stop reading. I’m thought dumping.

There is something wicked and powerful about Achilles k*lling and r*ping Apollo’s own son on his own altar in his own temple. Because that is the implication of the iconography and artwork.

Achilles drags Troilus by his hair to the altar of his father and the story doesn’t say if Achilles r*pes him, but it is implied. For one it talks about Achilles being overcome with lust for Troilus, who is the image of Apollo in human form. A beautiful golden haired, youth.

Not only is Troilus the son of Hecuba, he’s Apollo’s image. Sources say he is the most beautiful of the Trojans and Greeks. But he has been designated a fate where he represents the city of Troy. Hence the name Troilus. If he reaches adulthood, the city survives. If he dies as a youth, the city will fall.

Athena leads Achilles to Troilus to ensure his death and thus Troy’s fall. She does not account for HOW Achilles kills Troilus.

He sees Troilus on his horse, and he is overcome with lust. I think he probably offers Troilus some sort of deal, come sleep with me and I will let you and your sister go, but Troilus refuses and runs away and hides in his father’s temple. He is a little kid running to his father for help. But, Achilles breaks in, finds Troilus, and enraged kills him either on or near the altar of Apollo.

Troilus is the image of Apollo. He is his son. He is a prince of Troy. I think this is a tipping point for everything—the point of no return.

This seals Troy’s fate, but I think the reason for that are because of Troilus’s death. I think before this point there is the possibility there will be peace. I think Big Bro Hector would have sent Helen back, I think peace would have been sued for and Troy would stand. But Fate has to be accomplished. This is the point where Troy no longer gives a damn—their prince has been m*rdered and r*ped on the altar of their chief god. Priam is upset because he loved Troilus as his own son, and he calls Achilles a child-slaughterer after that. Hecuba is besides herself, and Hector wants to kill Achilles. I think this is the point where they decide that, yes, they are going to die fighting this war, but they have a GOOD REASON to. It’s not about Paris and Helen and Aphrodite and a dumb apple. It’s about a boy being murdered.

But Apollo, Apollo is now vengeance. He is acting as an arm of fate. He’s already peeved at Achilles, who had killed another son Tenes. (A different story about Achilles r*ping someone)

I said this to one of my commenters—an altar is a god’s dinner table. Apollo’s hands are tied by something—either Fate or Thetis or his Father, and he cannot stop Achilles who is savagely attacking his own son on his own table. He has to watch, has to sit there and taste his own son’s blood in his mouth, watch him brutally die.

Achilles’s fate is sealed. Apollo is going to kill Achilles. It’s just nine years later.

In the art, Thetis, Athena, Apollo and Hermes are in the background of this event. Athena and Thetis as support of Achilles, but it makes me curious what Hermes is doing there. Is he holding Apollo back? Has Thetis begged Zeus for Achilles life? Athena regretfully watching as she accomplishes her plan only to realize WHY it worked?

I think in this way you can fashion the Trojan War as a direct conflict between Apollo and Achilles. Everything else is going on around it, but at the heart of it, is Apollo and Achilles. Apollo waiting for his father and the fates to give him the go ahead because Achilles will die, and Apollo is going to take away everything from him in the process. Briseis, Patroclus, and then he’s going to take his life.

Achilles is the villain in Apollo’s story. He’s invulnerable, he’s circumventing fate, he r*pes anything under his power, he disrespects the gods. He is a lesson in what men do when no one can stop them, and the most powerful thing is that the Father wins. He finds and kills his son’s murderer even after all the roadblocks in his way.

Troy is a revenge story, and if I ever get to writing it in my series, it’s going to be written like a revenge story.

[menodoramoon]

Oh. So Moon would not be getting out of speaking about this barrage of feelings. Understood. Fair enough. Part of having friends, she supposed, was having people who understood her. How strange. Sometimes it really did feel like the only person who came close to that was River. Who she would not talk about. Just now.

Cass pokes her and Moon shoots her an almost sheepish smile, though maybe with both brows raised slightly. She's surprised, but she shouldn't be. She knows what she's done. Even if she recognizes it only in the periphery of every other thought she's had.

"For... troubling you?" Moon says, a bit more formal than normal, even if it does sound like a question. I shouldn't be sad about it, I made peace with it and it's done. Moon doesn't say, because she figures Cass wouldn't like it. "Well, I'd rather you not worry about that, either." Moon decides on, because to dismiss Cass's words entirely felt wrong as well. "I'd rather you not worry about me at all."

So Rosie and Tomeo... little memories bring them back. Was Moon broken in that way? Because she didn't think about-- oh, but she did. When she baked, when her cheeks glowed. But that's different. That's-- not beautiful like Cass's thoughts. Cass carried grief with a dignity. Moon tried not to carry it at all.

"I don't think you have to be past it," Moon says, trying to think of just how insensitive her words may have come across. "Certainly, it doesn't sound singular to you." But there's that reminder that they are friends and Moon has to think -- remember -- what the boundary with that is. Is she allowed to? Cass says yes. But the follow up is... would Moon allow herself to? "I don't mean-- I don't--..." What? That she doesn't have many friends? Would she really admit she was that sad?

"Thank you, Cass. I really don't mean to discredit your grief. I don't know if I have, but I don't mean to. I think processing loss is something I just don't have much experience with. Maybe I'm not past it. Maybe I lock it in a box and try not to cross it." Sure. A vulnerable admission. "You really are a good friend, Cass. And whatever I can do for you, in turn, I'd like to. I don't think I've ever had a friend so good as you."

@auntcass-hamada

(Troilus and Cressida 5.3.26) || Mooncakes

[gingermintpepper]

I think a lot about the depictions of Troilus' death that feature Achilles trying to prise him with a gift of doves instead of the immediate promise of death.

I've alluded to it before, but I tend to look at Achilles and Apollo as comparison cases - maybe not explicitly foils because I'm petty and that would imply that Achilles is narratively equal to Apollo and I don't want to give him that kind of honour even in a bit of casual analysis - but certainly as characters who gain a great deal of complexity when their actions are contextualised in context of each other's. The ambush of Troilus is just one of those funny little things that gets my mind a-whirring.

Because to me, Apollo's 'Troilus' so to speak is Kassandra. Kassandra, who Apollo coveted and wished to court. Kassandra, who was offered a great gift that would have undoubtedly forever marked her as one of Apollo's if she had accepted. Kassandra, who takes the gift but rejects the god and is cursed for her deception. Kassandra, whose curse makes her experience a thousand deaths over and over with no way of communicating such disaster to those around her.

The Achilles who falls in love with Troilus upon seeing his beauty and wishes to make a conquest of him is much the same to me. The biggest difference between Troilus and Kassandra though is that Troilus' rejection is much more physical. Those doves are nothing more than a symbol of the type of sacrifice Troilus would be; if he accepted them, he would die a docile death, sweet and quiet, a necessary casualty to turn the winds like Iphigenia. Except Achilles' love is nothing like Agamemnon's and it is nothing like Apollo's.

In the face of rejection, Achilles' instinct is to maim, it is to destroy. He was always going to kill Troilus - for the sake of the campaign, the boy had to die - but there was no dove's death, no quick and easy knife through the heart, no spit into an open mouth. Troilus' death is a brutal, drawn-out thing, a chase through the sand, a dragging that bruises his skin, a ripping of his hair, a violation of his flesh, a maiming of his corpse. As far as sacrifices go, it's an apalling one. None would dare to treat an animal set to be sacrificed before a god with that kind of brutality, sacrifices were meant to be blemishless and beautiful, something the gods would find appealing. Iphigenia was given away in her wedding finery, Kassandra was dressed as though to seduce a god. Troilus was a dove with his wings broken and his feathers pulled, whose death cries must've been like the terrible hollering of all birds when they try to alert their kind to a predator.

And as fucked as that is, I love it. It sets Achilles' love as this stormy, squallish thing that bleeds into his rage, it establishes that for him, love and wrath are but two sides of the same blade. Troilus was a necessary sacrifice, but he is in no way given even a modicum of the same dignity his contemporaries are and a part of me is just continually intrigued by this.

[katerinaaqu]

A question about visual arts this time

Do you have any favorite classics artwork(s) that is Iliad related? Like ancient potteries of Homeric heroes, mural arts, paintings during the medieval Europe, etc?

Oh my that is a very good question! There are so many pottery painting and murals of later years that portray so greatly the epic cycle that is so hard to choose!!! But I believe one of the old masters is definitely Exekias! As you remember from my small analysis on the preparation of Ajax suicide. He creates some amazing pasterpieces with the Iliad protagonists and he is very detailed in his style. See for example the famous depiction of Ajax and Achilles playing a board game:

His lines are very bold and his work is very detailed and not only that he includes even thematics that are lesser known such as the preparation of the suicide instead of the act itself or this board game that ellegedly happened in the middle of a battle. Of course we also have the so-called "Siren Painter" with the amazing depiction of Odysseus resisting the sirens songs from the Odyssey

But to focus more on Iliad as you requested (or the general aspects of the war) One of my favorites is definitely this Kylix that was drawn by a painter named Douris. here's an image of Odysseus approaching mourning Achilles (his arms are hanging from a wall which is a very interesting detail)

This Kylix involves the sharing of the arms of Achilles and the medalion in the middle depicts Odysseus handing over to Neoptolemous the arms of his father while holding a boetian-style shield instead of the well known shield of the homeric poems (and it is interesting given how most Neoptolemous depictions involve him killing Priam -he seems so innocent here doesn't he?!-):

A roman wallpainting from Pompeii is definitely one of my favorite Patroclus representations along with of course the infamous scene with him being taken care of by Achilles in a Kyllix

The fight over the body of patroclus in the black-figure style is also amazingly expressive:

The Berlin Painter has definitely one of the most expressive depictions of the battle between Achilles and Hector:

This depiction is around the neck of a crater, the figures are named and I loved how Hector is bleeding profoundly while untouched Achilles is going for the kil with his spear. Euphronius painter also has a very brutal scene of Achilles slaying Troilus:

An Amphora mostly black but for one red figure seems to be depicting Antilochus and is a really rare one from one I can tell!

I love how his long, wavy hair is arranged under the helmet and his obviously youthful appearance (he is a great source of inspiration for my Achilles and Antilochus story). I also love the Triptolemous Painter for making this depiction of the council of Achilles:

Not only do I love the cheeky pose Odysseus has; trying to transfer his ature through painting! Not only do we again see the arms of Achilles to the walls but also we have old Phoenix to the background with his hair tonred up with white color (thankfully rescued by passage of time) with his long hair thugged with the hair band and all!

Kleophades Painter has one of the most brutal scenes of the murder of Priam I have ever seen!

This seems to follow the line of the myth that Virgil speaks of in Aenead; Neoptolemus kills Astyanax before his grandrather before killing him too. In here he seems to have laid the dead baby to his knees and almost seems like either repeatedly stabbing him or beating him to death while Priam tries to shield his head. The baby also seems to have been repeatedly stabbed as well! And blood splattered everywhere!

For Diomedes this is definitely one of my favorites; the stealing of the horses with Odysseus

One can see his youthful appearance compared to Odysseus as they drive the horses away or the exchange of the weapons with Glaukus

I love his youthful appearnce and the thin features and yet the stout body to show his warrior status and the way he receives the shield with care in this, shows much on his personality really.

*

Oh there are so many different depictions by ancient art alone! I would be more than happy to elaborate further with specific images on specific heroes if you want on future reblogs because honestly the category is huge! Even scenes like geometric time paintings seem to be quoting Homer and either the funeral of Patroclus or Hector:

Thank you for the intriguing question! Made me remember many of these masterpieces!

[pain-is-too-tired]

We were robbed of any mentions of Michael or Lee in Toa.

I know Apollo was struggling with memory issues, but I refuse to believe he didn't at least once think about all the kids he lost in the Titan War

He gave Michael the arrows!!! He interacted at least once to do so!!! We could've gotten so much cool angst from it.

But of course most of the focus was on his failed love lifes.

Which sucks, because one the biggest other times he was turned mortal was because he snapped after the death of his son. One son!!!

I think his grief over his other kids should've been bigger part of his character. Especially with not only human emotions, but teenage human emotions.

Like, iirc he says something about feeling sorry about helping kill Achilles? Which??? No! He killed your son!! Maybe even two of your sons!!(i believe at least Tenes is canonically his son in pjo, I'm not sure if pjoverse counts Troilus being son of Apollo or just Priam-) you should not feel bad!! Especially if him killing Troilus in your temple is the version that actually occurred in pjo. I'd stick to my choices on that one. If Achilles didn't want to die maybe don't assault and behead a god's son IN HIS TEMPLE. Not just that, but the god that you seen absolutely wreck an whole army over the daughter of one of his priests. How you think he'd react over his son(s)???

Anyway. Apollo being absolutely protective over his kids and Meg even more so cause of his emotions. Him struggling with grief over his kids. Maybe him remembering hearing their last prayers and hymns. Maybe those haunting him at night just-

Apollo grieving all over again over his lost children. Thinking about them, their mortal parents, what ever he could recall of them.