#dai Mythal

[kcwriter-blog]

Someone on another social media platform brought up a point that I’ve never thought about or heard talked about much - at least not with this phrasing.

I’m sure other people have brought it up but I feel the need to talk about it anyway. The person said that we may all just be pieces on Flemeth’s chessboard. It resonated with me. We talk about Solas being a chess master and tactician but we don’t talk about Flemeth or really Mythal.

Flemeth took in whatever part of Mythal’s spirit remained after her murder. They made a deal. Mythal would help her get revenge and Flemeth would return the favor. Obviously it would take longer for Mythal to get her revenge because she would need to be stronger.

Flemeth body hops down through the centuries. She gives events a nudge or even a shove when needed. What exactly has she been nudging? We know Mythal’s end game but how will it play out?

Her daughter Yavanna was raising dragons. She wanted Morrigan to do the Dark Ritual to get a purified archdemon soul. She saved some heroes - Hawk - and extracts promises from others - Merric. Why? How will it help her win the game?

Who is to say that she didn’t call Solas out of the Fade when all her pieces were in place? She needs him to take down the Veil. It seems to be the one thing she can’t do herself. But, she had to be ready or she wouldn’t have asked him to come.

If Kieran is in your world state you find her in the Fade. It seems to be pretty natural to her. As natural as it is for Solas.

Flemeth has been in all three games. Everyone knows she is important but what is her game and who is she playing against? What is Solas? Her mage/bishop? Her pawn? Her tower/castle/rook?

Is she as willing as Solas to sacrifice her best pieces so she can win? Mythal has definitely been playing the long game.

Another question is whether or not she is doing this just for herself and her revenge or does she want to help Thedas. Is she okay with Solas putting up the Veil in the first place? Does she think he betrayed the world by doing it? Does she want revenge against Solas? Is she hoping he will die doing what she needs him to do?

So many questions….

[bishicat]

You believe me like a god I'll destroy you like I am

:-).

[baphometsss]

I don't wanna sit here and act like I'm a professional or anything, because I'm not, but as someone who has had to do a lot of work to overcome trauma and reconfigure my brain more or less from the ground up, there's a lot I have to say about Solas's mental state

We know that Solas was essentially used and abused by Mythal for millennia. Even if he wasn't under a geas, he was twisted from his purpose by being made to fight, and then created the Wolf's Fang which was used to make the Titans tranquil and started the Blights. He made those choices himself, but it's important to understand that no choice is ever made in a vacuum. She took advantage of his vulnerability when he was given a body after however long as a spirit semi-existing peacefully in the Fade, and moulded him into a weapon.

He is broken, because Mythal broke him. I'm not incapable of seeing why she did what she did because like I said, no one makes choices in a vacuum and I could write about her for a long time too (in a similar way to how I have had to do myself in my own life in understanding why others abused me). He was so traumatised by everything that happened and he was trauma bonded to Mythal pretty much from the minute he gained a body. Trauma bonds are not about love. He definitely interpreted it that way, as most people do, but that's the weapon abusers use to keep the victim under their control. Abuse abuse abuse show a scrap of love and then abuse some more. If I just take it, I'll get the love/attention I need. I will earn it, because love is suffering, and I have to suffer to earn getting my basic needs met from my family/friends. Mythal, as his creator, was the one who he would've attached to in a similar way to spirit Cole/human Cole.

Trauma bonds are pathological. Mythal made him believe that if he did as she asked, and kept supporting her, then eventually he would gain her favour and they would be able to free all the elves, and he'd be able to live according to his true nature, which is one where he doesn't have to fight. (Remember his personal quest in DAI? He actually kills the rebel mages for corrupting his friend--another Wisdom spirit--into Pride.) In reality, she was just using him. She always kept the bone just out of reach for her lapdog. The line from Rook where they say (paraphrasing here) 'you know, I was actually excited about getting your approval... That's how you do it, isn't it? Keeping giving little scraps of approval to keep someone loyal, and then you turn around and betray them' is so telling too.

Where--or from whom--do you think he learned to do this?

It literally reeks of a pathological trauma bond and honestly, with how isolated, 'grim and fatalistic' Solas is, it is not a surprise that he's so broken.

Solas, essentially, is little more than a lap-dog to Mythal. He followed her like a lost puppy, because especially in his early days, that's kind of what he was. You have to remember that most of the insight we get about Mythal is from Solas's perspective, and he is not a reliable person when it comes to her after so long being repeatedly terrorised and twisted and manipulated. There are several instances where he describes being betrayed by her, and mentions some of the things she did, but he never quite holds her fully accountable and ends up directing his rage elsewhere. (The parallel between Mythal/Solas and the rebel mages/Wisdom is important here.)

This awesome post by @mythalism only reinforces this. He is so messed up in that scene, he is broken, he is holding the Wolf's Fang up, trying to give it to her because it symbolises the burden he has carried for thousands of years trying to avenge her death. He never wanted the Fang, like he never wanted a body. Mythal just stands over him, fully aware of what she did to him, and only getting him to stop because Rook petitioned her successfully, and the reunion with the more benevolent Mythal within Morrigan tempered her anger. She was a goddess, with the unequal power dynamic, right to the end.

As a side note, on the potential romance element between Mythal and Solas, I read an excellent breakdown of it on Reddit a while ago about how out of character it would've been for Solas to keep something like that from a romanced Lavellan, especially in Trespasser when he comes clean about his plan/past. I can't find it now because it was pre-Veilguard release, but it made a lot of sense to me. Solas and Lavellan never have a love scene in DAI because Solas didn't want to 'lay with them under false pretences'. Lying about who you are when sleeping with someone is nonconsensual. You can't consent to sleeping with someone if you don't know their true identity, and someone who knowingly lies about who they are to get into your pants is a sexual predator. For someone who led a slave rebellion (no doubt many of them being sex slaves), and a former spirit of Wisdom, Solas would've been well aware of this. In the unsent letter from Solas to Lavellan he says he came so close to breaking and desperately wanted to stay with them as Solas, with the implication being that that is where he planned to sleep with them once he'd come clean. But because he stops, because he's still unable to forgive himself or release himself from his trauma bond with Mythal, he breaks away, and they never have sex.

Bottom line: Solas would've been honest about it. Especially that. As the Inquisitor says, he can't lie about his heart.

And it's why the Solas/Lavellan romance is so powerful because quote, 'you change everything'. Solas thought he knew what love was, that love was loyalty, devotion, worship, etc. It's not just his plans or worldview that Lavellan changes. Lavellan sees him for who he is, without the mantle of Dread Wolf, and because of that he's able to express his true nature to her, even if he's not being totally honest in Inquisition. Lavellan got much closer to the real him than most, as he says, and changed his understanding of love completely. Unfortunately, he has unfinished business, an unresolved trauma bond, and his crushing sense of duty to the past is what keeps him from taking that final step towards letting go of it entirely. Trick also says Solas doesn't think he deserves love, which tbh is kind of a hallmark trait of people who have survived abuse.

And honestly? Call me a simp but I think he really was trying to get the Inquisitor to stop him. He saw himself being unable to let go because he was so broken and burdened by his guilt, and knew he couldn't save himself--was too proud to admit that he couldn't, because how pathetic does it make him look? And how could he stop now without rendering all the damage he'd wrought pointless? Yet here was someone who had changed him right down to his core, who understood him in a way few people ever had, whom he trusted, whom he loved in a way he hadn't loved anyone else before. It took him 'centuries' to build up rapport with the members of his rebellion. The man doesn't not know how to form attachments without trauma, and suddenly he forms a strong one with someone who loves him completely and without condition. It's a jarring change.

Lavellan says that maybe they're being prideful themselves, refusing to see their own folly. But I think in admitting that they might be wrong, that it might be wishful thinking borne from misguided love to a truly terrible person, they've rendered the point moot. It shows self-awareness, which isn't folly.

If anyone can make Solas understand true love, it's Lavellan. Lavellan loved him when he was being his true self. Lavellan loved him after his betrayal was revealed. Lavellan loved him when his guilty conscience and terrible actions almost destroyed the world. Lavellan loved him because they knew the real him, and knew that his heart and spirit were broken, and knew that their love would endure, that their love would heal him.

And that's exactly where they end up. Healing the past, soothing the Blight, and loving one another completely.

[diesvitae]

Veiltober day 14: Mythal (Morrigan and Flemeth) Thrice she came to us, as Daughter, As Mother, as Crone. Since I've started this challenge I knew I wanted to make a Hecate inspired piece about Mythal 🥺

[hollytree33]

THE HIGH PRIESTESS

Annnnd her third card, hope y’all like her!!!

1. Hanged Man 2. The Chariot

Next

[felassan]

a post I wrote 8+ years ago.

"there is a Trespasser DLC bard song called Mercy for the Elves/Slightest Unite. it seems to sum up the situation elves in Thedas are in in the past, present and (potentially?) the future [....] Most of all I’m intrigued by  'Dalish father roams, Will the Dalish son survive the fight?' [...] Solas isn’t the only ancient elf, and a side effect of his plan may be lettting the trapped Evanuris back into the world. He says he has a plan to deal with that, and maybe it will work, but what if it doesn’t? He’s failed in his plans before [...] The Evanuris loosed upon the world again - what if it’s the All-Father doing the roaming? [...] Elgar’nan once again free and walking the earth, Elgar’nan with his [apparently] ferocious temper and destructive fury, Elgar’nan who’s said to wield fire and lightning. If he’s mad about having being locked up, and if he seeks to reclaim his former power and place of rule - would the patriarch god-king of [Elvhenan], which iirc once stretched across all of known Thedas as we know it, be content with reclaiming his former rule just over one part or people in Thedas? probably not. At any rate, the idea of facing off against Elgar’nan/some of the Evanuris in a future game.. they’d constitute the “overarching big bad” like the Fifth Blight/Archdemon for the HoF, and Solas would be a secondary antagonist/’false flag villain’ that you can either kill on your way (or something) or in the process get him on your side/redeem (Loghain)/work with him. elgar’nan, fite me (ง’̀-‘́)ง and ok i really wanna meet and do battle with Elgar’nan.."

-

"ᴀʟʟ ᴛʜᴇ ᴡᴏʀʟᴅ ᴡɪʟʟ ꜱᴏᴏɴ ꜱʜᴀʀᴇ ᴛʜᴇ ᴘᴇᴀᴄᴇ ᴀɴᴅ ᴄᴏᴍꜰᴏʀᴛ ᴏꜰ ᴍʏ ʀᴇɪɢɴ"

👁️..

[slushrottweiler]

Lavellan has something to say to you, Dread Wolf

[lagunapoint]

Give me a scene where they love each other again, where he calls her his home, where he kisses her and places his hands on her hips, pressing his leg between hers. Can you imagine how happy he must be, what must happen in his heart, if she actually kept her promise that their love would make it through this way, damn it. It should bring him back to life, knowing that the woman he left for 10 years, the one he still loves, is still willing to come to him and give him another chance. For some reason, I’m sure that, like a gumiho, he falls in love only once and for a lifetime. Whether she stays with him or not, that's Lavellan's decision. And I'm scared that I'll play it wrong for myself and everything will go wrong. Maker don’t let that happen. Otherwise I’ll cry.

[kcwriter-blog]

I've been thinking about how we the players know so little about Solas compared to what the writers and developers know about him and how that affects the way he is written.

I mean we know he is an ancient elf. We know he was powerful enough and skilled enough to create the Veil. We know he and Mythal were friends. He doesn't seem to have liked Andruil and Falon'Din much. Skyhold belonged to him. He removed vallislin. He tried to free slaves. He had kind of an underground railroad thing going. He seems to have had a lot of money secreted away. He painted even back in Arlathan. A lot of statues seem to have been made of him. People in the Vir Dirthara knew he created the Veil but were surprised that he would do something like that. He seems to have always had an affinity for the Fade and spirits. He enjoyed whatever version of the Game nobles in Arlathan played. He was cocky and hot blooded, always spoiling for a fight. He is capable of love and friendship.

I think that's all and it really isn't much. Everything else anyone says about him is pure speculation. It makes meta fun but its easy to get too caught up in our own ideas.

We speculate about him based on things we learn from his personal quests and what we see in Trespasser but we don't know anything for sure. Was he a slave? Was he a spirit called out of the Fade by Mythal and given a body? Did he manifest a body like Cole? Was he just a normal elf born in a small village to the north? Was he a noble and privileged or did he work his way up? Did he join the fight against the Titans? Was he a genius who theorized that the waking world and Fade could be separated? Did he use untried magic because his back was against the wall and he couldn't think of any other way to save the world? Was he a friend of the Evanuris so they trusted him enough to fall into his trap? Was he one of them?

So many questions. The writers have tried to portray him sympathetically. They want us to empathize with him. And I have to ask myself why? He is one of the antagonists. Wouldn't it be easier to portray him as not having any redeeming qualities? And yet, he is basically described as the hero who lived long enough to become the villain.

I know his detractors believe he is a genocidal, racist maniac but that doesn’t track with everything we learn about him as high approval or romanced Inquisitors. It certainly isn’t born out by his statement that he is doing his best to minimize the damage.

He truly believes what he is doing is best for the world and is willing to break it and remake it. What does he know? But more importantly, what do the writers know? Fen' Harel has existed since Origins. Devs have always planned for him to make an appearance. That means the valleslin has always been a mark of slavery even if the Dalish didn't know. The Creators have always been horrible, slave owners even if the Dalish don't remember. Which means Solas has always been the rebel fighting for what he believes is right.

Why do the writers see him not so much as the villain (although Epler uses that word constantly - he is usually the only one though) as they do a somewhat noble person who keeps making mistakes? Why is he portrayed as just a sad man who can't see past his regret and guilt. What was he like? What changed him? What did he know about the Veil before he put it up?

I get that a lot of people don't like the idea of being tied to him in Veilguard but maybe the writers did that so we have no choice but to get to know him - the good and the bad. Maybe we finally get to know Solas the way the writers and developers know him. I'm looking forward to that.

[bishicat]

I would love to see your Flemeth!!!

Do you mean Flemeth or Flemeth?

[reagan-the-saunders]

Wait a second. Wait a god damn second.

(huge datv spoilers)

So, in inquisition, Solas' personal quest involves us going to save his friend, who is a spirit of wisdom, summoned, bound, and forced to fight, which turned it into a pride demon.

Okay, and from there;

we learn in the veilguard that ancient elves once were spirits, and long ago Mythal needed Solas' wisdom and had him take physical form, using his wisdom as a weapon, as she put it, which, and I quote "broke him". And his name literally means "pride" (which was likely his name in spirit form, too, but regardless.) UNTIL MYTHAL FREES HIM FROM HER SERVICE IN A GOOD VEILGUARD ENDING.

She also said that she "pulled him away from the fade which he loved" and solas said (in inquisition) that his spirit friend was "dwelling quite happily in the fade". IT DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE.

ANOTHER REASON WHY HE IS SO FUCKING PISSED ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO HIS SPIRIT FRIEND, ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE.

IT HITS HIM LIKE A TON OF BRICKS BECAUSE HE'S WATCHING WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM HAPPEN TO AN OLD FRIEND.

And of course, pride demons have a few traits that are similar to what the dread wolf form has. Notably, the eyes.

So, I suppose, Solas used to be a spirit of wisdom himself, but Mythal twisted him into like THE demon of pride. And, on top of that, demon of regret. And I don't just mean that because he regrets a ton of the things he's done, like he projects it, too. The prison of regret, even some of the wolf statuettes you collect for the regret memories, your rook will literally say "just being near it makes me feel... regret."

I am not okay-

[i-m-not-a-penguin]

Am I the only one who believed at the end of DAI that Mythal was 100% ok with Solas taking her fragment in himself?? The way DAV frames it as murder drives me crazy. She wanted her reckoning and would obtain it through Solas

[knife-eared-jan]

Sigh, I just played The Final Piece and got some dialogue I didn't before and now I'm upset again...

!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!

What do you mean this didn't set anything up?!

You can't get more blatant with the foreshadowing than that!

[nespyofire]

POV: You're dwarf and drank from Well of Sorrows

[mrs-gauche]

I was looking at old screenshots, because I keep thinking about those purple eyes, and I was wondering what eye color the ancient elves in DAI had.. and turns out, most of them are actually clearly purple, too? :o

(Please ignore the eyebrow mod. lol That's their vanilla eye color though.)

There are other unusual colors of course, like Abelas and some of the other sentinels...

I just think they're neat. :3