#dai Mythal

[kcwriter-blog]

Questions About an Ancient War

I wish we had received more information about the war between the Titans and the Elves.

Why did the Evanuris and Solas think severing the Titans dreams would end the war? That's a weird thing if you think about it. I mean yeah cutting something off from the Fade makes it less likely to resist but that means the Fade, spirits and Titans would have all been connected at one time.

So were spirits the dreams of the Titans? Did they reflect the Titans' emotions? What does that mean for them wanting to take bodies?

Why were the Titans afraid of the elves taking bodies? So afraid that they started earthquakes over it? I assume they made the dwarves out of lyrium which is how spirits got the ideal. Was it because they couldn't control the embodied spirits and if so, why not? I mean if all the bodies were made from lyrium? Or were the dwarves made from something else?

Who fired the first shot, so to speak (I'm guessing it was Elgar'nan but the Titan's could have started it)?

Were the Titans using the dwarves to fight their battles (at least in part since Mythal is lauded for slaying a Titan and Elgar-nan boasts about it). Were the dwarves winning? Did making the Titans Tranquil make the dwarves lay down their arms?

Why did Solas think the war was about freedom? Freedom for whom? The dwarves? The elves? Did Mythal convince him that the dwarves were enslaved by the Titans and needed to be freed from their control which would also end the war? Was that why Solas was angry? Did the elves enslave the dwarves (which would piss him off) or just drive them underground?

So many questions. We just get Titans/dwarves = good and spirits/elves = bad (not that I condone what the Evanurus and Solas did). I just think there was more to it and we are lacking a lot of information and nuance.

Maybe some of this is covered in the art book that I don't have but there is just a lot of context missing in the game.

[hajima-7]

I used your wisdom as a weapon...

and it broke you.

[densewentz]

mmm not to be a solasmancer on main but im thinking about those few days after the Cole debacle if a solavellan Inquisitor encourages him to remain a spirit. just. Solas, watching her fret so much in the aftermath, terrified that she may have taken someone's choice away, worried that she influenced what Cole wanted somehow, watching her sheer relief and unbridled joy after Cole's, free and light and brimming with happy incredulity, "but you didn’t change, didn’t make me change. Thank you". He watches her, and thinks of Mythal. Thinks of devotion, and abuse. Regret. Thinks of Cole, and spirits and Wisdom and Pride- Thinks, wistfully, achingly, "in her hands, I might have been safe".

[lehlatte]

Goddess of Self-Righteousness and God of Sunken Cost Fallacy.

[nokdunal]

Younger(?) Solas 🤔

[bishicat]

You believe me like a god I'll destroy you like I am

:-).

[the-upper-shelf]

Cerva being a Dalish dancer before joining the Inquisition and getting a truckload of traum-I mean character development.

[baphometsss]

I don't wanna sit here and act like I'm a professional or anything, because I'm not, but as someone who has had to do a lot of work to overcome trauma and reconfigure my brain more or less from the ground up, there's a lot I have to say about Solas's mental state

We know that Solas was essentially used and abused by Mythal for millennia. Even if he wasn't under a geas, he was twisted from his purpose by being made to fight, and then created the Wolf's Fang which was used to make the Titans tranquil and started the Blights. He made those choices himself, but it's important to understand that no choice is ever made in a vacuum. She took advantage of his vulnerability when he was given a body after however long as a spirit semi-existing peacefully in the Fade, and moulded him into a weapon.

He is broken, because Mythal broke him. I'm not incapable of seeing why she did what she did because like I said, no one makes choices in a vacuum and I could write about her for a long time too (in a similar way to how I have had to do myself in my own life in understanding why others abused me). He was so traumatised by everything that happened and he was trauma bonded to Mythal pretty much from the minute he gained a body. Trauma bonds are not about love. He definitely interpreted it that way, as most people do, but that's the weapon abusers use to keep the victim under their control. Abuse abuse abuse show a scrap of love and then abuse some more. If I just take it, I'll get the love/attention I need. I will earn it, because love is suffering, and I have to suffer to earn getting my basic needs met from my family/friends. Mythal, as his creator, was the one who he would've attached to in a similar way to spirit Cole/human Cole.

Trauma bonds are pathological. Mythal made him believe that if he did as she asked, and kept supporting her, then eventually he would gain her favour and they would be able to free all the elves, and he'd be able to live according to his true nature, which is one where he doesn't have to fight. (Remember his personal quest in DAI? He actually kills the rebel mages for corrupting his friend--another Wisdom spirit--into Pride.) In reality, she was just using him. She always kept the bone just out of reach for her lapdog. The line from Rook where they say (paraphrasing here) 'you know, I was actually excited about getting your approval... That's how you do it, isn't it? Keep giving little scraps of approval to keep someone loyal, and then you turn around and betray them' is so telling too.

Where--or from whom--do you think he learned to do this?

It literally reeks of a pathological trauma bond and honestly, with how isolated, 'grim and fatalistic' Solas is, it is not a surprise that he's so broken.

Solas, essentially, is little more than a lap-dog to Mythal. He followed her like a lost puppy, because especially in his early days, that's kind of what he was. You have to remember that most of the insight we get about Mythal is from Solas's perspective, and he is not a reliable person when it comes to her after so long being repeatedly terrorised and twisted and manipulated. There are several instances where he describes being betrayed by her, and mentions some of the things she did, but he never quite holds her fully accountable and ends up directing his rage elsewhere. (The parallel between Mythal/Solas and the rebel mages/Wisdom is important here.)

This awesome post by @mythalism only reinforces this. He is so messed up in that scene, he is broken, he is holding the Wolf's Fang up, trying to give it to her because it symbolises the burden he has carried for thousands of years trying to avenge her death. He never wanted the Fang, like he never wanted a body. Mythal just stands over him, fully aware of what she did to him, and only getting him to stop because Rook petitioned her successfully, and the reunion with the more benevolent Mythal within Morrigan tempered her anger. She was a goddess, with the unequal power dynamic, right to the end.

As a side note, on the potential romance element between Mythal and Solas, I read an excellent breakdown of it on Reddit a while ago about how out of character it would've been for Solas to keep something like that from a romanced Lavellan, especially in Trespasser when he comes clean about his plan/past. I can't find it now because it was pre-Veilguard release, but it made a lot of sense to me. Solas and Lavellan never have a love scene in DAI because Solas didn't want to 'lay with them under false pretences'. Lying about who you are when sleeping with someone is nonconsensual. You can't consent to sleeping with someone if you don't know their true identity, and someone who knowingly lies about who they are to get into your pants is a sexual predator. For someone who led a slave rebellion (no doubt many of them being sex slaves), and a former spirit of Wisdom, Solas would've been well aware of this. In the unsent letter from Solas to Lavellan he says he came so close to breaking and desperately wanted to stay with them as Solas, with the implication being that that is where he planned to sleep with them once he'd come clean. But because he stops, because he's still unable to forgive himself or release himself from his trauma bond with Mythal, he breaks away, and they never have sex.

Bottom line: Solas would've been honest about it. Especially that. As the Inquisitor says, he can't lie about his heart.

And it's why the Solas/Lavellan romance is so powerful because quote, 'you change everything'. Solas thought he knew what love was, that love was loyalty, devotion, worship, etc. It's not just his plans or worldview that Lavellan changes. Lavellan sees him for who he is, without the mantle of Dread Wolf, and because of that he's able to express his true nature to her, even if he's not being totally honest in Inquisition. Lavellan got much closer to the real him than most, as he says, and changed his understanding of love completely. Unfortunately, he has unfinished business, an unresolved trauma bond, and his crushing sense of duty to the past is what keeps him from taking that final step towards letting go of it entirely. Trick also says Solas doesn't think he deserves love, which tbh is kind of a hallmark trait of people who have survived abuse.

And honestly? Call me a simp but I think he really was trying to get the Inquisitor to stop him. He saw himself being unable to let go because he was so broken and burdened by his guilt, and knew he couldn't save himself--was too proud to admit that he couldn't, because how pathetic does it make him look? And how could he stop now without rendering all the damage he'd wrought pointless? Yet here was someone who had changed him right down to his core, who understood him in a way few people ever had, whom he trusted, whom he loved in a way he hadn't loved anyone else before. It took him 'centuries' to build up rapport with the members of his rebellion. The man does not know how to form attachments without trauma, and suddenly he forms a strong one with someone who loves him completely and without condition. It's a jarring change.

Lavellan says that maybe they're being prideful themselves, refusing to see their own folly. But I think in admitting that they might be wrong, that it might be wishful thinking borne from misguided love to a truly terrible person, they've rendered the point moot. It shows self-awareness, which isn't folly.

If anyone can make Solas understand true love, it's Lavellan. Lavellan loved him when he was being his true self. Lavellan loved him after his betrayal was revealed. Lavellan loved him when his guilty conscience and terrible actions almost destroyed the world. Lavellan loved him because they knew the real him, and knew that his heart and spirit were broken, and knew that their love would endure, that their love would heal him.

And that's exactly where they end up. Healing the past, soothing the Blight, and loving one another completely.

[thessaralka]

Solas romance is basically:

Inquisitor: hey Solas:. …. Inky: I gotchu boo bear ❤️ Solas: choking th-thank you? Inky:… ;) you're not like other girls Solas: I - no I’m not. Thank u for noticing. Inky: ;;;) Solas: ur hot and I’m into u and I might plausibly want to test that theory Inky: choking Inky: so u have feelings for me? Solas: n-noo Inky: tests that theory Solas: fade tongue

Solas: moaning oh hehe this is a dream btw ~ Inky: wow. Hot. sooo. Wanna? Solas: there are....considerations. like mythal's geas over me which is heavily implied in the subcontext throughout my entire narrative arc. Inky:……. U don’t have to do this alone. I felt your tongue in my mouth. I said I gotchu.

Inky: I SAIDDDD I gotchu. Solas: choking vhenan ar lath ma I haven’t and will never forget that kiss smooching noises Inky: damn alright mf Solas: vhenan ❤️❤️❤️❤️ Solas: wow I love sex and parties reminds me of the good ol days let's dance babe Inky: ??? Solas: in the fade ofc. I don't party. Inky: o-okay Solas: mythal's temple…. It's all coming back…. Memories of my pa- the fade. you really cannot rely on friends at all. untrustworthy mfs Inky: ??? damn you're being negative as hell right now you tryina fuc Solas: no. Actually, Yes. Come with me vhenan. Solas: I have so much to tell you. Choking the truth. Your face. The Dalish are but simple fools - Inky: what the fuck Solas: kissing and grabbing ass, choking back tears we cannot. Your duty - I am but a distraction crying Vhenan: … I said whatever you're going thru you don't have to go thru alone. I meant that. Wyd? I love you. Don't leave me. Let's be worms together. Solas: choking and crying I'm such a piece of shit vhenan I can't Vhenan: 😭😭😭😭???????? Vhenan: 😡😡😡😡!!!!!!!!!!!

Solas: heartbroken and wracked with so much guilt on main Cole: all you have to do is tell her. she thinks it's her fault why don't you just tell her? Solas: I'm a piece of shit Cole please stop trying to help me I'm unlovable Vhenan: 💔💔💔???? Solas: harden your heart and use that pain against C-Corypheus. Solas: wh-what we had was real vhenan 😭😭💔💔😭 Solas: leaves Vhenan: 🚬😭 what the fuck even was that

Vhenan: Cullen wyd Vhenan: nevermind. Ew

Vhenan 2 years later: *putting on a clown nose* wdym Solas is an agent of Fen'Harel. Of course. He has been helping us all along ☝🏻😍 Everyone except Cole: you stupid bitch Cole: you see him ❤️ Vhenan: Solas idgaf that you're the dread wolf you should have trusted me. Solas: ….. I'm such a bastard. Solas: I'm going to tear down the veil and kill you and everyone you love. Vhenan: *in full clown makeup* let me help you Solas. You don't have to do his alone. I am literally just as crazy as you. Solas: choking I walk the din'anshiral vhenan I can't let you love me when I'm like this. Vhenan: you stupid mf. I will save you from yourself. Solas: choking and crying my love~ kissing sounds Solas: sobbing I will never forget you…. But you should forget me… I'm such a loser and horrible person. Bye Vhenan: this stupid mf. I will find his ass and make him see.

Solas for 8 years: writing vhenan unsent letters and reading smut and painting murals about it all emo Vhenan: wearing clown makeup this stupid mf. I love him still. Rook: damn okay. Vhenan: *putting on clown shoes* can we save him from himself at this point in time maybe? Morrigan: thinking with your pussy Inquisitor? Vhenan: I have literally never stopped thinking with my pussy from the moment I saw him

Vhenan: Solas, stop. Solas: choking vhenan what are you doing here? I am a peice of shit. Vhenan: Idgaf. You're my peice of shit. Solas: I cannot stop. I am under a geas by Mythal and the writers didn't want to extrapolate on that further even though it is the only thing that makes my character motivations make sense 💔 Mythal: I release you from my service btw. Solas: wow suddenly I am free to make descisions that align with my morals and values. Crazy. Rook: wack. I wanted to punch you. Solas: I will go and seek atonement. Vhenan: not alone you aren't. Solas: crying where I am going is terrible vhenan. Vhenan: I SAID I GOTCHU. WE GOING TO THE BLIGHTED ASS BLACK CITY TOGETHER TO BE WORMS ETERNAL. AND IT WILL BE FINE BECAUSE I SAID SO. Kissing noises Solas: 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 thanks for bringing my woman back to me Rook, serving your only narrative purpose ❤️. Rook: whatever. Vhenan: ;)))) ❤️

[diesvitae]

Veiltober day 14: Mythal (Morrigan and Flemeth) Thrice she came to us, as Daughter, As Mother, as Crone. Since I've started this challenge I knew I wanted to make a Hecate inspired piece about Mythal 🥺

[kcwriter-blog]

Someone on another social media platform brought up a point that I’ve never thought about or heard talked about much - at least not with this phrasing.

I’m sure other people have brought it up but I feel the need to talk about it anyway. The person said that we may all just be pieces on Flemeth’s chessboard. It resonated with me. We talk about Solas being a chess master and tactician but we don’t talk about Flemeth or really Mythal.

Flemeth took in whatever part of Mythal’s spirit remained after her murder. They made a deal. Mythal would help her get revenge and Flemeth would return the favor. Obviously it would take longer for Mythal to get her revenge because she would need to be stronger.

Flemeth body hops down through the centuries. She gives events a nudge or even a shove when needed. What exactly has she been nudging? We know Mythal’s end game but how will it play out?

Her daughter Yavanna was raising dragons. She wanted Morrigan to do the Dark Ritual to get a purified archdemon soul. She saved some heroes - Hawk - and extracts promises from others - Merric. Why? How will it help her win the game?

Who is to say that she didn’t call Solas out of the Fade when all her pieces were in place? She needs him to take down the Veil. It seems to be the one thing she can’t do herself. But, she had to be ready or she wouldn’t have asked him to come.

If Kieran is in your world state you find her in the Fade. It seems to be pretty natural to her. As natural as it is for Solas.

Flemeth has been in all three games. Everyone knows she is important but what is her game and who is she playing against? What is Solas? Her mage/bishop? Her pawn? Her tower/castle/rook?

Is she as willing as Solas to sacrifice her best pieces so she can win? Mythal has definitely been playing the long game.

Another question is whether or not she is doing this just for herself and her revenge or does she want to help Thedas. Is she okay with Solas putting up the Veil in the first place? Does she think he betrayed the world by doing it? Does she want revenge against Solas? Is she hoping he will die doing what she needs him to do?

So many questions….

[i-m-not-a-penguin]

Am I the only one who believed at the end of DAI that Mythal was 100% ok with Solas taking her fragment in himself?? The way DAV frames it as murder drives me crazy. She wanted her reckoning and would obtain it through Solas

[fil3t]

Lavellan in the Fade

And the old Dalish curse Means something new to me Take me as well, oh, Fen'harel Like my hand and vallaslin

~ Lavellan's Lament by @dreadhallatavern

WIP-ish

[thefadecodex]

So what spirits do you think the Evanuris were? Like Elgar'nan would be Command, Mythal -> benevolence, Solas is wisdom -> pride, but what do you think the rest were?

I like to think June is Inspiration (made the eluvians), Sylaise would be Harmony, Dirthamen/Falon'din are the shattered remnants of Wisdom (<- i get this from this quote on Dumat: "in silence is the beating heart of wisdom). Dirthamen would be Knowledge -> secrecy/deceit(?) and Falon'din would be Learning corrupted into Hunger?

Sorry for the rambling- but I love this blog and Evanuris being former spirits just fascinates me!

Well met, wanderer of the Fade!

I have thought about this a lot, honestly, and I’m still coming to my final conclusions on the nature of the Evanuris. However, here are my current thoughts until I reach that section to dive deeper:

June – Innovation (The creation of the eluvians speaks to a mind driven by invention and transformative creativity.) When corrupted, it becomes Obsession.

Sylaise – Harmony (Her association with peace, fire, and the nurturing aspects of elven society suggest a spirit tied to balance and cohesion.) When corrupted it becomes Stagnation.

Ghilan'nain – Creation (Her association with shaping creatures, monsters and guiding them ties closely to the act of bringing something new into being.) When corrupted it becomes Hubris*.

In this context, I wouldn't use hubris and pride to be the same. Think of pride as believing you're the best in the room, while hubris is believing you're above the rules of the universe.

Andruil – Competition (Her obsession with the Hunt and her repeated challenges to other gods suggest a drive defined by rivalry and dominance.) When corrupted, it becomes Madness.

As for Falon'Din and Dirthamen, I’m still untangling their threads, but I’m leaning toward them being shattered fragments of Discovery.

Dirthamen might represent Knowledge, with a drive that, when twisted, becomes Secrecy—hoarding knowledge for himself rather than sharing it.

Falon'Din could align with Learning, corrupted into Hunger—an insatiable need to consume, understand, and claim everything in his reach, even the souls of the dead. Which also aligns with comments made by Solas in DAI about Falon'Din's desire for worship.

I love your interpretation of them as remnants of Wisdom, particularly with the connection to Dumat’s quote: "In silence is the beating heart of wisdom." It aligns beautifully with their themes.

It’s such a fascinating idea to explore the Evanuris as once being spirits themselves—shaped, changed, and eventually corrupted by their own desires and the weight of their power.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! Discussions like these are what make exploring this lore so rewarding.

May your path through the Fade remain well-lit!

—The Fade Codex

[bishicat]

I would love to see your Flemeth!!!

Do you mean Flemeth or Flemeth?