#cyanippus

[doloneia]

every so often i remember the passage where pausanias says that diomedes and euryalus were the guardians of cyanippus (aegialeus' son) before leaving for troy and how diomedes was exiled afterwards and probably never saw cyanippus again and i start wailing

[regkatouargou]

Paus.2.30.10

[elixs-mythology-corner]

I need father Diomedes in my life.

Also, Diomedes not straight confirmed!! *has never read the iliad*

@psychicbluebirdmiracle @unhinged-as-hell help spread the word for me guys. This kiddo of his has NO WORKS ON AO3. I NEED CONTENT FOR MY SOUL. Telemachus needs an older brother.

JJFSKJFSKHFJFH He's a FOSTER DAD SKAJDJSAKDBAKJDBK I NEED

Diomedes actually has a lad whose name is Cyanippus

I just wanted to say give me their dynamics

[littlesparklight]

A not-so-serious comparison :V

Cyanippus and Troilus should possibly be in slightly their own brackets, being boys/teenagers, but I'm counting them both in here. Cyanippus is mentioned in a poem by Ibycus, where he's compared to Troilus. I'm equating Ajax and Nireus since while Nireus is said to be the most beautiful of the Achaeans after Achilles, Ajax is very often compared to/equated to Achilles in terms of beauty.

Since both Laodike and Kassandra gets named as the "most beautiful" of Priam's daughters, I decided to make them almost equivalent (could probably have done the same as with Ajax and Nireus).

[regkatouargou]

Cyanippus and Cometes were friends till Cometes kicked his uncle out of Argos (he didn't tell him he kicked him out even after a few days, cya found it out by himself)

Cya tried to kill him but Aegiale stopped him

Source? 100% my brain.

[cygniavenue]

i’m adding to this actually but on the topic of Diomedes being mischaracterized it kinda grinds my gears how the popular fanon narrative that has emerged in recent years because of Epic is that Diomedes is a loner with no real friends who has never experienced real love, and Odysseus is there to show him what it’s all about.

and i think to some extent that viewpoint is understandable as a lot of things about Diomedes’ past are unclear because the Epigoni is lost. but even so we still know what the Epigoni was about, we know about the characters in it and to a lesser extent we know about the relationships they had with one another, or at the very least we can infer.

And the sentiment that Diomedes has no friends and has never experienced camaraderie or love or affection (in a healthy manner) is simply untrue.

Yes, his early life was full of tragedy, and he went to war at a very young age which is undoubtedly a source of unresolved trauma for him. But he grew up and fought alongside seven other boys and young men who were experiencing the same thing as him, and a few of them even accompanied him during the Trojan War, even though they're seldom or not at all mentioned. Sthenelus and Euryalus get mentions, but he also would have had Amphilochus, and likely Cyanippus as well. That's four whole people he's known way longer than Odysseus!! but because they're only side characters in the Iliad they often get shoved to the backburner, which i guess is to be expected, because they're side characters. but in the greater context of things they're much more important to Diomedes than that, and there's so much unused potential to explore that web of other relationships Diomedes has, and as an extension to that how it influences his camaraderie with Odysseus - but in a lot of fandom spaces i only see Diomedes as an accessory to Odysseus - not only that but as Mads said he often overshadows Penelope, who is of the utmost importance to Odysseus, even when she isn't by his side.

that bein said though ship and let ship, if you enjoy it good for you that's none of my business (but i am allowed to criticize facets of blorbo woobification on my own blog)

I do agree that a lot of people in that OdyDio space do tend to character assassinate them both to have their mlm ship often at the expense of Penelope entirely. It's extremely frustrating to see it happen on such a widespread level and it starting to take root as a pretty popular alternate ship for Odysseus. I feel like there could be a way to do it that simply doesn't water them down into half of what they should be as characters but not many fics that I've read in the past make that effort. Idk where I was going with this really but I appreciate your viewpoint about this ship and other similar points on it very much.

*sighs* Thank you for appreciating my rants :') I don't like doing them and I've done it quite a few times enough already but I need to let it out lol. <3 It's very frustrating as a Penelope lover. I'm happy that I'm not so alone in this feeling tbh.

And literally everything you've said ;~; Especially the first statement of "a lot of people in that OdyDio space do tend to character assassinate them both to have their mlm ship often at the expense of Penelope entirely."

People act like it's canon when it's simply not and never was. Period. And that's okay. Ship and let ship but don't act like it "definitely happened". It's an AU. And Diomedes is definitely not on the same level as Penelope in Odysseus' heart. I love Poly ships but for Odysseus to have clawed his way back into the arms he never wanted to leave in the first place, to be told he can only give one hand for his wife, the one he shares his mind and heart with, SO OFTEN is just... ough.

Like the Odyssey is the Ithacan Royal Family's story...And yet people think the "Real Odysseus" is in the Iliad and/or basically putting aside everything in the Odyssey for fanon version of the Iliad.

Like, my "Water Wife" being a weird cryptid water woman is technically an AU as well. I know this. I very much hope others know this as well. And that's okay.

As like, I wouldn't hate it so much if this weren't the case and if it wasn't shoved down my throat as often as it is ;~; It's literally everywhere. I already can't ramble about Penelope without someone making it about Odysseus. At least that's a bit understandable as that's the love of her life. But the fact that if I ramble about Penelope, people will bring up Diomedes?! Because of a non-canon crackship? (Also, Epic only mentions Diomedes once. Why are Epic fans, who've never even read the Iliad/Odyssey, (sorry to gatekeep but also not. I'm being mean right now) shipping it??? at this point it's just that you like the fan creations. WHICH IS FINE, BUT ADMIT THAT.)

I'm not against crackshipping and/or just shipping because it's hot. My guilty pleasure is MenOdy, a non-canon crackship. I know it's not canon. They definitely care deeply for each other but there is such a thing as deeply platonic friendships. As it even goes against their character to get together, as that would be cheating on their wives if they did have a relationship during the war. (Don't bring up Megapenthes as of right now. that's a separate and more complex topic altogether in the terms of "Cheating" in my opinion) Despite enjoying this ship, I never proclaim that it's canon. Especially not in the Odyssey and the Iliad.

And like, MenOdy comes from them being alike in how they ARE both loving husbands and fathers similar in age. That's the intrigue for me. As in character to a degree! Most OdyDio almost like, takes away Odysseus' love for Penelope in order to make it about Diomedes, which is SO wild and so wrong to canon. That's an AU.

I always try to like, start out headcanon talks with mostly "In my stuff", "In my Writing", etc. as like, to make it apparent that it's technically not canon and so that like, others know that it's just in my stuff and that they don't have to agree. Fanfics aren't essays, despite a lot of my interpretations being incorporated into my stuff.

Honestly like, it's almost hard to write sometimes because I almost feel so much...Pressure??? To make sure my Penelope fics are PERFECT. I want her to have creations and ideas and fanfics for her. I refuse to halfass her. I want her to have love and thought that's just more than just OdyDio's third and/or just a wife or mother. She deserves so much more.

[argeiarenga]

Siblings(+nephew / son)

[argeiarenga]

Diomedes actually has a lad whose name is Cyanippus

I just wanted to say give me their dynamics

[lyculuscaelus]

Now that you’ve mentioned it, yes, it is interchangeable. Homer called her “Ἀδρηστίνη” (Adrēstinē) in book 5, line 412, and the patronymic suffix -ίνη (-inē) here certainly applies to both daughter and granddaughter. Just like the patronymic suffix -ίδης (-idēs) in these two of Achilles’s epithets, Πηλεΐδης (Pēleïdēs) and Αἰακίδης (Aiakidēs), with the meaning “son of Peleus” and “grandson of Aeacus” respectively, and as you can see Αἰακίδης (Aiakidēs) works for both Peleus and Achilles.

So yeah, Ἀδρηστίνη could totally mean “granddaughter of Adrastus”, in which case it goes by the version where Aegialeia was the daughter of Aegialeus, and this is also mentioned by pseudo-Apollodorus in his Bibliotheca (book 1, chapter 8, section 6). In this case it makes more sense for their marriage to happen because it puts her and Diomedes, grandson of Adrastus, in the same generation.

And yes, just like you’ve said, cousin marriage was not considered “incest” in Ancient Greece, and marriage between cousins certainly happened a lot in Greek mythology (such as Lynceus/Hypermnestra, Amphiaraus/Eriphyle, Orestes/Hermione, etc.).

I think for me, Diomedes going to Italy is especially interesting partially because it’s hard to see Diomedes as the one content to settle down at that age. Italian wanderings certainly provided him a chance to accomplish more feats (and he did found a lot of cities which is remarkable). And that way Cyanippus could still take his place to rule over Argos. So, yeah, I think my problem with this version is that I don’t see this being an exile and I don’t enjoy the only characteristic of Aegialeia being “unfaithful” here.

How easy it was to blame all these misadventures the Achaeans suffered upon their homecoming on a man in revenge for his son.

Yes, we know what Palamedes did, and we know that he deserved it. We know that the disaster near Cape Caphereus did happen, and Nauplius was the one behind this. But we have not learned of anything else about the other part of Nauplius’s revenge from any sources earlier than pseudo-Apollodorus’s Epitome (and we know that the entire chapter 6 of Epitome is very likely tampered by Tzetzes already). Since, to be fair, Homer wasn’t the only one who neglected all this resettlement of Achaean heroes.

There was no mention of the name “Nauplius” in Proclus’s summary of the epic Nostoi, and the only chance for him to show up is in “the description of the storm around the Capherian rocks”. We know that Nauplius would make an appearance in the Nostoi through, again, pseudo-Apollodorus. But nothing more. The corruption of Argive wives did not happen in the Epic Cycle, and both the Nostoi and the Odyssey did not elaborate on any exile of any Achaean leader especially Diomedes.

And Aegialeia was still a steadfast wife of Diomedes in Homer’s epics. And Clytemnestra could still find her justice in her lament for Iphigeneia in Aeschylus’s and Euripides’s plays. Any role Nauplius could play in this would be redundant—prudent Aegialeia simply wouldn’t comply, and Clytemnestra wouldn’t need him to convince her.

So, why the attribution then? A likely explanation would be the attempt to connect the hero with those foundation myths in places outside the Mainland Greece like Magna Graecia. And what better way to get the hero there than exile? And what better way to exile a hero than the betrayal of their wife if they had one? (Well there are better ways but you know what I mean) The thing is, why did it have to be Nauplius? I mean, the tragedy at Cape Caphereus was infamous indeed. I could totally see people blaming Nauplius the Wrecker for more things than simply lighting a false beacon and throwing rocks. So now we have our avenger Nauplius traveling around Greece contriving the corruption of Argive wives and causing shipwreck for the returned fleet and in some versions even bringing false news to Anticleia which led to her suicide (again, not the version in the Odyssey)…Nauplius just seemed to be such a convenient device to connect these events.

But does that have to be the only case for their nostoi? I mean, Homer certainly did not include anything about this exile in his epics, and we could totally have our Nauplius simply causing shipwreck, without messing up with other heroes’ families. Is it tragic? Certainly. But in the meantime, it is cathartic. Heroes like Diomedes, Idomeneus, Philoctetes still get to stay in their homeland, even if it’s just in a few versions—one of them being Homer’s version.

[doloneia]

look at this passage!!! they were his guardians!!!! and then they left for troy!!!

every so often i remember the passage where pausanias says that diomedes and euryalus were the guardians of cyanippus (aegialeus' son) before leaving for troy and how diomedes was exiled afterwards and probably never saw cyanippus again and i start wailing

[doloneia]

just remembered this tryphiodorus quote where cyanippus is in the horse. diomedes questionable guardian that you are ❤️

every so often i remember the passage where pausanias says that diomedes and euryalus were the guardians of cyanippus (aegialeus' son) before leaving for troy and how diomedes was exiled afterwards and probably never saw cyanippus again and i start wailing