#cw: transmisogyny

[three-maddys-in-a-trenchcoat]

You're right about trap and wrong about femboy. The former was always a slur, the latter never was. Both come from roughly the same segment of the internet but from wildly different times. Trap was ages and ages ago when "feminine person with a dick" was inherently and obviously bad to cis men. Femboy comes out of those who, many, many years later, appreciated and wanted to be feminine people with a dick. It is, at worst, kinna fetishizing of GNC men, but it it's theirs to reclaim and it does not refer to trans women and never has. In part that's actually because of the 4chan crowd's transphobia, ironically - many of them like femboys and many of those don't like trans women, so why would they refer to them with a term they consider positive? It just doesn't fit.

did you miss the part where i said i was there? where i was a victim? i'm almost 32, i saw it all happen.

this is revisionist nonsense.

you came in here to prove me wrong and then demonstrated what a "third gender" is perfectly. who, pray tell, has always been called tr*ps/femb*ys and treated as a subset of gay men? who is viciously attacked by these same people the moment they gain enough self-respect to call themselves a woman? which labels do these people immediately jump to when an AMAB character is reclaimed as trans? when have they ever looked at a feminine character with a penis and said "yeah, that's a trans woman?"they absolutely both refer to us. the claimed distinction only occurs in the fevered transphobic mind.

for the record, they have also always bashed people they call tr*ps as mentally ill, while saying that femb*ys are not (or at least, not in the same way). it's an abusive relationship designed to keep transfems from ever transitioning while they're exploited sexually ("you don't want to be mentally ill...do you? you're different from the filthy tr*nnies"). they get off on trans women being in the closet, that's what all this "failed man" and "boy wife" shit is about.

oh look, here's a "feminine man with a dick" enjoyer proving my point.

the fact that channers distinguish between the two labels is completely irrelevant because they don't have any concept of transfemininity beyond "feminine man i can exploit." their only concern is "how gay does this make *me*," not any sort of inner world that their victims might have. tr*p was just way too close to approving of transness (despite them still thinking it was gay), so femb*y came in to be a more insidious label that firmly classifies us as gay men.

please explain f*tanari/ot*konoko next. do you think all those guys who go to ot*konoko brothels here in japan are just gay boys appreciating a feminine man with a dick? those labels come from the same subcultures we're talking about here and serve the same purpose.

Daisuke Ishiwatari, a goddamn Japanese cis man who helped seed all this in the first place, figured it out and tried to correct the damage he'd done. Somehow transfems are the most eager to not understand their history of being oppressed and to preserve these systems.

are you afraid that gay/bi men will attack you? if they have a problem with this, fuck em. they helped create this mess and keep giving these labels legitimacy for their own benefit. i know who my allies are.

EDIT: sorry, i need to chill out. i just think you're wrong on this, not a bad person or anything

to quote a more eloquent friend, "femb*y exists to be tr*p but politically correct"

[orderrup]

also if you think trans girls are “recruiting” vulnerable feminine men and boys by saying “hm you might be trans” youre falling for the same shit homophobes used to say about gay people who affirmed baby gays. do yall need those ��its ok to be gay!” and “it gets better!” PSAs dubbed over to say “it’s ok to be TRANSFEMME” before you accept trans liberation or are we going need to hold your hand this one too. stupidest discourse to date.

if you cant coversion therapy someone into being straight and cis you cant peer pressure someone into being gay and trans. clown behavior on this website.

[ixa193]

[nyancrimew]

hey @humans, do you intend to ever get to the rape threats ive reported to you or are you doing a transmisogyny themed pride month this year?

[taliabhattwrites]

[deepseasmetro]

ohhh i hope this guy kills himself

[three-maddys-in-a-trenchcoat]

seeing a lot of people, including fellow transfems, defending femboys because there are transmascs who identify as femboys..... transmascs identifying as a transmisogynistic third gender construction designed to keep transfems in the closet and providing it legitimacy........ you cannot be fucking serious

are transmascs gonna start identifying as "l*dyboy" and "otokonoko" and "new half" and "f*tanari" and" tr*p"? and you'll defend them? what the fuck is wrong with y'all?

[stormandmoonlight]

so it seems the TERFs are utterly divorced from reality (cw: bad transphobia/transmisogyny)

i have no words. this shit is morally reprehensible, sure, but also just demonstrably wrong in really weirdly obvious ways? idk imagine thinking this hard about trans women's femininity when you could be doing something actually useful in fighting bigotry

[some-eldritch-bats]

When liberals and conservatives fight over who gets to be in charge, minorities aren't on a side. We are the poker chips they gamble with.

When liberals need to "make compromises", they don't sacrifice anything themselves. They put our heads on the chopping block and say, "we can't defend everyone. You're the cost of doing business."

There is no more quiet part, they are just fully saying our loud that they think trans people even existing in public is a harm to children akin to sexual violence.

I'm so tired of liberals telling me over and over and over again that I need to just reach out and talk to these people. They see my very existence as a sex crime, they think I need to be exterminated out of public life and then exterminated for real. These are fucking fascists. I'm so tired of being a rhetorical chip used to shame others, I'm sure you'll feel smug satisfaction over your conservative uncle that you were right while he's carting us off.

I'm sorry, there is no bridge to bring us to a middle ground between "I think I have the right to exist" and "I think your very existence is a crime" that doesn't end poorly for me.

There is no hand I can reach out without getting pulled by that hand straight down 6 feet under to my grave.

[sjwcringecompilation]

Trans women will be placed in subordinate roles, as caregivers or sex objects, yet when we complain about our circumstances, our frankly sexist treatment, we are then made out to aggressive angry monsters, in line with our "innate biological maleness" in order to shut us down.

In an abusive relationship the abuser will always have a justification for their behaviour, yet if their victim complains or steps out of line, then the victims behaviour is utterly unjustifiable to the abuser. To the abuser, the victim is always to blame.

From this transmisogyny can be viewed as creating a class of the perfect victims of abuse, whose reactions to their own exploitation is never justified.

[starryjoy]

All right, let's talk about it with proof.

Recently the transandrophobia tag has gone more and more into being reactionary and believing that the enemy is indeed trans women.

I would appreciate for everyone to look at this and understand how absolutely not okay these things are.

How these things mirror the same exclusionary and separatist rethoric that created (trans) radical feminism in the first place.

No, not "all non-transmascs" hate transmascs. That's separationism. No, saying you love transfems as a little tag doesn't work if your post specifically picks exclusively trans women to say that we're causing every problem. No, calling trans women who are rude to you bitches or cunts or whatever other slur or insult will not make any situation better. No, telling trans women to shut up does in fact not mean you love them. And finally yes, goddamnit, we fucking need each other! Trans women need trans men and trans men need trans women and we all need nonbinary and intersex people and they all need us!!!

So yeah. I would like for everyone in the transandrophobia tag to be careful about we say and do and what voices we decide to reblog and boost. Because these behaviors? They are not okay.

And before anyone comes to tell me "I told you so", every single transmasc I've shown these things in isolations to has agreed that they were gross. Maybe some of these posts have been reblogged because the rest of the text had some insight that was actually important. But the fact still remains, this is not okay.

We need trans unity, now more than ever.

[catgirl-kaiju]

we (transfems) deserve to have spaces online where we can feel safe and where we can thrive.

there's been plenty of discourse recently alleging that we are trying to separate ourselves from the rest of the community by talking abt transmisogyny. but, we're not trying to separate, we are being separated. we are being pushed out of public spaces, and even the spaces where other queer folks are allowed to exist without fear.

and this has an effect on our ability to advocate for ourselves and share our perspectives. it also suppresses our art and the records of our lives, our existence. i'm an artist and aspiring entertainer. I would like to be able to bring a larger audience to my work, i want my work to be able to find folks who can connect with it. how can i do that effectively if so many social media sites are not safe for me? what happens if i get banned, and my profile scrubbed of all content?

i already have a decent following on here, and i feel like the bigger i get on here, the more likely i am to be stripped of everything i have on this site by displeasing the wrong people. my presence online should not be contingent on being a good little tranny with no controversial opinions, who is quiet about my weird kinks. we shouldn't have to be pallettable sterile objects for your consumption just to exist in public spaces, online and offline.

[mr-ribbit]

gonna rant again bc im seeing a lot of trans women on my dash having to carry the heavy lifting to argue for their basic respect and a lot of other queer people who want to ??? get mad about that apparently. for the record as usual: im tme, im not speaking for anyone besides myself and my perspectives, but I am trying to reach out to fellow tme people to level with y'all from inside the house.

i thought we all got past the 'calling people gendered terms when theyve asked you to stop' thing in like. 2012. i swear we were allllll on board with not calling women dude anymore, nerfing sir and ma'am, neutralizing collective terms for groups, and all of that was like, during the onceler era. that's how we got off-putting shit like folx into the mix - remember???? why are we here again.

to those who I've seen claiming that they REALLY genuinely don't want to offend anyone, and that theyre trying to understand the dude thing, and they don't want to be seen as transmisogynistic when they aren't: ok. let's talk about it. step one, stop sending that really loaded anon to a trans woman you don't know, and close that in-group hatepost with 100 replies from people name-dropping trans bloggers they don't like. try to open your mind and assume for the duration of this post that I am not cynically trying manipulate thousands of tumblr users into making Bro the next big swear word, but a fellow queer human being who thinks you're all being pretty intentionally obtuse about an upsetting trend in our community

to be clear: this post is about the issue of trans women being called bro, dude, man, etc., particularly in recent tumblr discourse about transmisogyny, and the backlash they face if they get upset about it. this is also maybe moreso about the shitty ass excuses I see tme people make for why they supposedly can't stop doing this.

so let's go through some of the things I've been seeing people say they don't understand, supposedly in earnest, about this issue

"I DIDNT USE DUDE AS A MASCULINE TERM. I CALL EVERYONE BRO. MAN IS A GENDER NEUTRAL TERM"

I'm not actually going to exhaust my list of reasons why dude/bro/man are not strictly neutral, but you should be pretty aware that all words have context. Dude might be seen as neutral in many contexts, sure, but 'woman who is frequently called a man by others' is a situation where the context adds extra meaning to your words, just like calling someone "sweetie" might be neutral in some cases, but if you've got the context of knowing that's your coworker who's half your age, it's a bit less neutral. If you're not capable of reading that context and being tasteful about when you say dude, then you need to at least be ready to respond gracefully when someone asks you to stop. This is the part I'd rather focus on.

"BUT I DIDNT MEAN IT THAT WAY. IM NOT TRANSPHOBIC"

I think you should consider broadening your perspective *beyond* your intention behind the word. people may already understand that you meant the word neutrally and therefore didn't have transmisogynistic intent, but that's not really the entire scope of what people are saying. if that's your only concern, you're just trying to clear your record, not actually listen to what they're saying.

there are lots of words people don't enjoy being called, and in most cases, when they say 'pls don't call me that', people respect that and move on. even if the word isn't a slur, if it hurts someone's feelings, we all as a society have agreed that it's pretty shitty to keep calling them that. if your friend asked you not to call them 'buddy' anymore because their dead grandparent called them that, or something equivalently personal, you'd probably respect that instead of telling them 'but I call everyone buddy!!' right? even if you didn't really understand why it bothered them so much?

there is a prominent tendency for trans women to be denied this privilege, and when they ask not to be called dude or bro, people don't seem to respect this request as much as they would in other situations. when I accidentally use a gendered word and someone tells me they don't like it, I try to respond with something like "my bad, I didn't mean it as misgendering but I can see you were still bothered by it, so I'll try not to keep saying it. sorry!" and most people are willing to accept that. when trans women ask people this favor, a lot of people get VERY defensive, and treat the request as inane or unfair, instead of just apologizing and moving on. this is why people are upset when this happens, and it's why people are calling your actions transmisogynistic

also like you might not be doing this, but a lot of people DO use dude and bro in an intentionally gendered way to make trans women uncomfortable. it's a power play bigots use to talk down to them or otherwise maliciously harass them. do you know what arguments they use to defend that behavior when called out on it? 'oh I call everyone that' 'dude is gender neutral calm down' 'dont overreact its just a word'. by acting like this, youre all just giving credence to those same arguments.

"WELL THEY SHOULDNT GET SO MAD AT ME WHEN I DIDNT MEAN ANY HARM"

they can get as mad as they want!! also, are you sure they're 'mad'? or are they just expressing their feelings about a negative topic to you, and it makes you feel bad, so you have to make them out to be unreasonably emotional? how do you think they should have phrased 'dont call me that' to better spare *your* feelings?

also like, in most cases, these women do not knowww you. if your main response to someone saying you disrespected them is to say "I didnt mean it that way, I meant it in a friendly neutral way", well that's NOT YOUR FRIEND! she has no idea what your opinions are or what you think of her!!! she has no reason to assume you only upset her in a friendly way and not a bad unfriendly way! but she did get upset, and she did the one thing she can do which is *tell you what upset her* and your response is to say "well actually you shouldn't be upset at all"??????

and another thing:

it's not just the issue of using the word 'dude', it's because you're coming off extremely dismissive of women who have asked you to stop doing something that harms them, and because your argument is basically that they just shouldn't be so bothered by it. or that they're stupid, irrational, or otherwise crazy for telling you that it bothered them at all, just because you Technically used a gender neutral word according to Your Rules. be honest, does that seem fair? If people were calling you something that bothered you enough to ask them to stop, and they responded like this, how would it make you feel?

focusing solely on your intent and what the words mean when you use them is the same thing as saying "just get over it". no woman should need to Prove to you that 'dude' is gendered for you to care about what she's saying. the fact that you're asking people to do that sucks and makes you look bad, which is why people are arguing with you and calling you a misogynist.

especially those of you who are only doing this with trans women who are actively arguing with. you're wielding misgendering as a cudgel and we can all see it, grow up please.

[biracy]

In general quite fascinating how "boys who liked bionicle are girls now" is called "gender essentialism" by like Radqueer Terfs DNI posters but "the thread of Girlhood Uterus Vulva Trauma connects all (cis) butches and trans men, so that's why I can reblog photos of trans men to my men dni blog in my #dyke tag" isn't. Lmao

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

Ok I'll try to keep this brief. Tl;dr, my partner and I want to kick our roommate out but she has nowhere to go and I feel bad.

To add on to that, this person, who I'll call Rescue, came to us when we moved after being kicked out of her old place. She's a friend of a friend. Unfortunately she is also extremely annoying and creepy. Annoying I can *kind of* live with but it's the creepy. Our walls are very thin and she WILL comment on conversations held behind closed doors if she can hear them. Sure she cooks and cleans sometimes, but she'll do it in weird outfits. She's asked to join our polycule out of nowhere when literally nothing has been done to imply our interest in her. But the worst part is, she wants to put up a pool and invite the neighborhood children. We're all queer in a red village (there's literally rebel flags in some places) so add that on top of the supreme liability that would be... My partner got super creeped out by that since he feels something cheese pizza-y might happen if you get me. So we want to kick her out.

Rescue's not on the lease and she barely pays bills. She doesn't have anywhere to go except *maybe* the mutual friend's place and, having been at risk of living on the streets myself, I'm worried. She *does* have a job but she only works maybe once a month. But partner and I have talked all this over and came to the conclusion that she needs to go for the above reasons.

WIBTA?

[agenderakali]

Some mfers on this site: "TERFs DNI stop drinking the TERF kool aid!!" The same mfers: "Of course trans men date/identify as lesbians isn't that kind of a no-brainer?? As AFABs they understand misogyny/womanhood/the lesbian experience so SO intimately. I mean, they were raised as women and socialized as women and dealt with misogynistic oppression in a way that no male-I mean amab-I mean CIS MAN ever could! Like- lesbians dont want to date cis men but... obviously it's different when it comes to trans men. Like... obviously? Do I need to spell it out lol?"