#cr negativity

[blorbologist]

love how neatly this completely guts VM's defining sacrifices lol

The Sunken Tomb? 'Take me instead you raven bitch - but only for 30-odd years tho'

Scanlan sacrificing his Wish to make sure Vecna didn't get away? Well now Vecna's BACK and MORTAL again (hey remember how most of his awful deeds were done as a lich?) AND it doesn't matter that Scanlan couldn’t save Vax then because they get him in a gift basket now! That’s a twofer! Back to square one!

Makes the two kids named after him hella awkward huh?

[pocketgalaxies]

ashton assuming every single person in that council room has never been touched by true fear or vulnerability or helplessness, the only exception being keyleth, whom he has to say that about because she routinely lays her soul bare for all of them when they repeatedly ask her for guidance. i know they're Punk etc but the presumptuous and misguided belief that people either show all of their hurt the way you do or they've never been hurt at all. ugh it's just exhausting to me

[nothingwithdignity]

This is something that’s been mentioned before but with the benefit of most of the finale under our belts, I think it’s safe to say that the next campaign will benefit greatly if it is largely disconnected from those that came before. It’s one thing to see the impacts of a previous campaign in a shared world but the intertwined nature of this campaign has been a disservice to all three. I think it’s done the most damage to campaign 3 and the least damage to campaign 2 but none of them are as strong as they were or could have been.

[chiakery]

Couldn't stay up until the end of the episode but I saw a post saying that Vax is alive and back with Keyleth? I'm... So pissed. Never before have I written a fix-it fic to make someone die but this may be the first one.

Look, I love Vax. And I really enjoyed his relationship with Keyleth in cr1. But for Everlight's sake, I'm an adult who not only can handle a story about loss but also can find beauty and comfort in it. Vax's sacrifice was important, so was Keyleth's grief and they made me cry but that doesn't mean I wished for this situation to be "fixed" by bringing Vax back to life. His sacrifice should be respected, not treated as something that had to be reversed for the story to have a happy ending. He sounded relieved to be able to go see his mother again, all those years ago. Let him have his rest instead of pulling him back to a place that wasn't really his for so many years, that moved on (Deanna vibes, anyone?)

And Keyleth too should be allowed to get her happy ending without Vax being back - no matter if that means moving on and starting to love someone else or remaining alone but finding happiness in her people and friends.

I'm an adult and I don't need to have a miracle-ending to every less-than-stereotypically-perfect situation. When you do that it stops feeling like a true miracle and starts to feel like a cheap handout to keep your fans placated.

[shorthaltsjester]

“slowburn of all time” and it’s a relationship that is nearly identical at the beginning and end of the story, and also features the characters getting together quicker than all but one of the main pc/pc relationships in previous cr campaigns . okay, sure. words don’t mean things ig

[arabella-strange]

the thing is, the campaign set us up to ask these enormous, important questions about what's right, what the appropriate limits of power are, who gets crushed under sweeping decisions where no checks are made or even possible -- and so it's hard not to be a little frustrated that the final option the BH chose was 1) Imogen and Co. rocking up to Vasselheim with a God-eater inside her, effectively squaring off to the tune of 'you will deal with us because you have to'... and yet 2) no real underlying conviction or plan or skills or networks to draw on, just the vibe of 'y'all gotta do better, I dunno how, and what "better" means is also pretty fuzzy, but anyway it's your problem now so figure it out'

like yes obviously everyone has to figure it out. that's... the problem we started with. can you contribute any new insights into the conversation? or did you just want to break something?

[peripecias-i]

the amount of opinions on the campain 3 I saw that starts with ' I haven't seen the campain in - insert here at least 30 episodes but I want to say that and this about last episode'. SHUT THE FUCK UP. sorry

[dropoutposts]

Alright critical roll fans please vent to me if you want, I have zero context, I just love drama

[yoursdearlyeve]

they've just taken c1 tragic ending and thrown it under the bus

what's the point then of having such scenes in the first place if everything is going to be rolled back to have a happy ending

Edit: and no, it doesn't mean that people who loved c1 ending want drama to last forever. I LOVE that Laudna's constant suffering has ended. I love that Orym can be happy again. But sometimes the tragic end just works better ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[criticalbeauregard]

i get everyone is excited about imogen being in the laudna book and more than likely getting canon meeting (me included ofc) but im seeing more and more people making the hype for the book all about imogen…. let us not forget this is laudna’s story

[blorbologist]

i read your tags! also same wrt vaxleth just being given their happy ending; it's not just that vm had nothing to do with it and it was all bh, it's that bh didn't even do it on purpose and it was essentially just a side effect of their actions

Hi anon - exactly!!! I can't get into much rambling atm, but it's so frustrating that the beautiful ending of C1 was undone as a freebie. And potentially even *more* than undone, if Vax is still an immortal Celestial.

(I'm sure Vax would love outliving his sister when he offered his life and service to save her in the first place. But hey never-ending romance am I right???)

It would be one thing if VM decided to weigh in more heavily on what happened with the gods, if say Pike had to consider inflicting this on Sarenrae (and to a lesser extent Vex and Scanlan on Pelor and Ioun, but hey they're just chosen hm?) to get Vax back. The closest we get to sacrifice was Vex dying, but a) ... I'm sorry but she’s died a Lot and she still came back anyways with no long-term repercussions b) that was to get Vax un-orbed, not completely get him 'back.'

VM were at best mildly inconvenienced (nothing was permanently lost or changed that they chose), got to have a nice victorious evening, then Vax was tossed back like a bonus prize regardless of his feelings on the matter. It feels like an afterthought, an excuse - oh while we're at it lets 'fix' what was a beautiful ending, because apparently it wasn't all that beautiful to us.

I could have been sold on this being a bittersweet thing - on Vax having changed, on Keyleth having changed, their respective responsibilities burdening them, to the point this is difficult for both of them. But the fact it's framed as them pretty much... a neat bow to wrap things up? It's not earned - by VM, by Keyleth, and it makes Vax and his entire character, his entire sacrifice, feel like a trophy. You handled 30 years without your boyfriend, congratulations! Here's a cookie.

Idk. To anyone stinging about this finale - or those just mildly bothered but they can't put their finger on why - I'd encourage you to rewatch something you know has a satisfying happy ending. See it done right.

I'd ramble about how Fullmetal Alchemist (manga and Brotherhood) is another example (like Dungeon Meshi) of a happy 'resurrection' done right (except it's shorter term, bar Al' body coming back which was a long-term goal - and it's focused on the platonic bond like the Touden siblings, though there is a romantic bond present and involved) - but my arm really fucking hurts so despite my ire I'll shut up.

No, wait: I'll end on part of Ed' final narration:

"There’s no such thing as a painless lesson, they just don't exist. Sacrifices are necessary, you can’t gain anything without losing something first."

[pocketgalaxies]

sometimes i will be forced to read the most insanely bad take ever and have to be So brave about not losing my total shit over it

[nothingwithdignity]

While we’re at break, a few thoughts on the finale so far.

Overall, could be better could be worse. It had the potential to redeem some of the shortfalls of the campaign as a whole but it’s not going to hit that mark. Whatever else comes through, I think that ship has already sailed. It’s suffered a bit for the same reasons this campaign has suffered, the characters don’t mesh the way they need to, the consequences don’t stick, and the growth has been minimal. They are at their core, still NPCs who happened to stumble into the spotlight.

That being said, there is a fair amount of interest which is more than can be said for some episodes. Seeing all the gods in the same room, seeing Ashton’s choice to make a sacrifice even if it was quickly negated.

I have to keep reminding myself that it’s their game not mine, but there’s enough intrigue there that I can keep watching without the frustration levels getting too high.

It does remind me why I will be glad to see this party go, but at least I’m not bored.

[mariuslepual]

the only way this bullshit could get redeemed in my eyes is jester invites ludinus to the wedding and the wizards get to dark star him together. love and light.

[fwwerabtry]

Something that came to mind is that saying about how you never get the original artist to restore a painting, because they'll try to improve what they see as flaws instead of restoring it to how it was.

Not that having the original creator(s) in the writing room of an adaptation is a bad idea-usually the opposite- but usually the original creator, in that case, is one person, who can easily be balanced out by others. Not eight, who also run the company and are the main cast.

[arabella-strange]

I just… I think eventually there’s something important to say about how aligning Ripley with the empowering of “the masses” vs. putting Vex on the side of “the world would be better if [one person] were in it,” esp. when that person’s first comment on returning to his burning city was to say, “The castle!” while flying over the city being burned… I get what they were doing, but I actually think it all adds up to be 100% counter to the values the show wants to have.