#conflicted about reylo

[eh-fandomtrash]

There is a lot I would like to say, but I will keep it short. I want to begin by stating that I have never found Adam Driver attractive and was never a fan of Reylo. But I was active in the enemies-to-lovers circles at that time and I want to point out that anti-Reylos were extremely shitty to POC Reylo fans and drove many of them off this platform. This is not a defense of any acts of racism committed by other Reylos or those who harassed actors. I saw some of that stuff. It was atrocious and very gross.

However, as someone who enjoyed enemies-to-lovers shipping and followed a lot of people who had similar interests across fandoms, I saw a lot of anti-Reylo people say atrocious things to the POC fans who had a long history of enemies-to-lovers style shipping across various fandoms and liked Reylo. These were people who had blog-archived histories of shipping black characters, characters of color, and even LGBT characters within the enemies-to-livers ships-framework (and I would know because I was mining many of their blogs for the old content, which I craved). The asks they got and the messages they received were ALSO atrocious and very gross. And if it was clear that they weren’t white the messages they received were pretty damn racist.

Being racist, bullying and/or engaging in cruel harassing behavior isn’t excusable regardless of shipping and deciding that everyone who likes a certain dynamic in their ship is evil is pretty despicable.

Again, not saying that there weren’t racist Reylo shippers. But I saw some of my favorite POC creators in the enemies-to-lovers space get dog-piled and driven off the platform over a ship. There was irreparable damage done to shipping spaces on this site and I’m still kind of pissed off about it.

So, I stand by my earlier statement: PLEASE do not make hating a ship or a character your entire personality. If you did do this at one point, I hope you look back on that and feel at least a little ashamed, because you probably hurt at least one person who did nothing wrong. They just liked a ship you didn’t.

yall r still mad at your high school english teachers for making u analyze shakespeare or hemingway to teach you the most basic understanding of metaphor and themes in art. thats a good thing dude. if people on here were more literate in that stuff we wouldnt have like. reylo shippers

[rey-jake-therapist]

idk how to feel abt the promo now being completely focused on haladriel ngl. like … on one hand it clearly means something has shifted and they’re aware of what attracts attention, which bodes well for haladriel in future szns. but at the same time im kinda annoyed that this promo tactic only happened after s2 because a) i think they should be promoting s2 as a whole b) the push for haladriel should’ve happened way before the finale/ep 8. they’re reusing the fight scene every day and it’s like yeah you realised they bring in the views but you have only 1 clip to sustain over 2 years.

the captions like “indistinguishable from evil” are also funny because none of that translates with the crappy dialogue we actually got. it’s like they did a whole 180 because pre finale promo was vv different. i think they should stop taking advice from ‘focus groups’ or reddit bros. ofc feedback is good but sometimes i feel like they’re always leaning on outside opinions to carry the next szn rather than the writers knowing exactly how they want things to play out & standing by it. it’s very wishy washy sometimes

I'm not even sure that it bodes well for season 3, anon. Not in the sense that most shippers want, anyway.

I think we can be rather hopeful regarding Haladriel's screentime (they'll share more than one scene), but that's probably the best we can hope for. It is a relationship that will be only antagonist. I don't think we should expect any grand romantic gesture, any kiss or any admission of romantic feelings.

Season 2 was the moment when it could still happen, because Galadriel was still conflicted about her feelings for Saurbrand. Well as we saw, she easily tossed her inner conflict through the window during the fight, turned into mega girl boss and never took the bait, even after Sauron stabbed her with Morgoth's crown to bind her to him. This ship has very likely sailed now. Whatever temptation that Galadriel has in the future... It will probably be related to her desire for power, which should keep growing as darkness grows in her as well. Sauron will definitely have a part in that as he's not going to let her go, but.... I think we shouldn't hope too much for romantic innuendos, not from her side, anyway.

So yeah, I think Amazon's desperate to keep shippers invested because they realize far too late that we represent an important part of their viewership and that's why they keep licking Haladriel boots. I've seen it happen before, with Reylo before TROS : after mocking or ignoring the shippers for years, suddenly their entire marketing was centered on Rey and Kylo. The only difference is that they never acknowledged any romantic feelings between them, which in retrospect wasn't surprising since romance there was none in TROS, except for that kiss which was less romantic than Elrondriel's so called platonic smooch 😭 The SW marketing team baited Reylo for more than a year and for what ?

All that to say, I'd really advise you to not trust Amazon's marketing strategy. It's all about engagement. They want to attract new shippers and get them to watch TROP so their numbers increase, while trying to get old shippers invested for season 3. Right now they play the romance card but we shouldn't take it as an insurance that romance or something close to romance is in the cards for future Haladriel interactions, imho.

[piglet26]

Reylo Scenes: TFA

The day after the Force Awakens Ren and Rey were christened Reylo. I always laugh when Lucasfilm and JJ Adams tried to keep this pairing neutral and "suggestive" like seriously. The seeds were laid in the first film for FinnRey and Reylo, but really Reylo was always going to reign supreme not only because of the chemistry between Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver but the writing, art direction, acting and even costuming leaned Reylo heavily.

Reylo are introduced as Ying Yang right off the bat. Ren arriving in Jakku by night in black with a black mask. Rey meet on Jakku by day in white with a white mask.

The first time Ren hears about Rey or "the girl" he reaches out towards the camera and Rey reaches back towards him.

It's stated that Ren and Rey had similar visions of one another without understanding who the other was. In Rey's lightsaber vision she sees Ren very clearly setting up that he, bringing him back to the light, is her future.

On Takodana, it's canon that the production team wanted Ren's arrival to be like a prince arriving at a castle to meet a princess. "In this scene she is drawn to this place almost like Cinderella." FYI Ben Solo is an actual Prince. You know the twisted Star Wars version.

Then there is their first scene in Takodana. In the novelization this moment is more intense than the already intense movie scene. Kylo Ren recognizes that this is the girl that created a ripple in the force. He's fascinated with her. The standby stormtroopers actually are noted to having a reaction to his odd interaction with her. Despite the fact that he probably could've taken the information from her then, he bridal carries her out.

Having circled her, he moved even close peering into her face, her eyes

"It is you," he murmured.

The interrogation scene - the moment the Reylo fandom was born. Does it bother me that she's strapped to a BDSM stand? No. It's actually very clear that she's a peer. He doesn't approach her like he did with Poe Dameron. He's kneeling down as he observes her. She's a powerful force user and he does respect her on that level. He also does want her to be comfortable hence taking his mask off and girl....

I know you were not expecting this fine ass man to be behind that mask.

Believe me, I would've had all kinds of images in my head he would've picked up on.

He also checks her out physically. He's focused on the information he needs but overall he is attracted to her and very interested.

Rey surprised him but not being the simply girl she was in the forest. She is actually powerful in the force "untrained but stronger than she knows."

"Don't be afraid. I feel it"

Reylos "Feel what exactly. The minds want to know."

It's also canon in this scene that their force bond starts in this moment. She actually learns how to get in his brain from him getting into here's.

Force bonds between masters and apprentices aren't new. It used for defense/offence and it makes it so skills are easy to translate to apprentices.

Now their fight scene which was filled with sexual tension that everyone noted. It's still complex. Rey's instinct is to defend herself and Finn. She also just saw him murder someone. Ren is fleshing her out and testing her. It's like sparring. Where it's get's interesting is when they spiritually connect.

Daisy Ridley "Finding the force together"

Ren "You need a teacher. I can show you the ways of the force"

Many people read the moment as Rey finding the force on her own but it's actually the both of the moving through the force together. Kylo Ren actually finds a powerful ally/kinship with her and reaches out for that connection. Considering he rejects most of his connections this is actually a big deal. Is looking for a girlfriend? No, but he is looking for somebody.

Rey has such a conflicted view of him and an off kilter one.

Rey beating Ren is stupid. Even if he is injured, emotional damaged and surprised. It's stupid. It should've been a draw.

His stunned "Just Marry Me" face is also really great.

It's a great start and a unique relationship especially in the Star Wars universe. It's ridiculous that adults who grew up on Han/Leia find romance something purely feminine now and so unlike Star Wars hahaha either way Reylos stay winning.

[modernvintage]

I’m rewriting one of my fics to be original fiction and it’s really fucking hard. Because I want it to be good.

Not that it wasn’t. For a fic, I was delighted with it and I got good feedback. But there are huge gaping holes and a lot of fandom pandering and whole ass chapters that need to be cut.

But it’s also really fun. Because this fic was an AU and the more I wrote the more it became my own. I am loving what I’m creating now but it’s much slower and more challenging than the fic was. I have picked up a lot of bad habits I’m trying to let go of. I’m relearning my craft from a literary perspective.

And I’m trying so hard not to bash fanfic bc I love fanfic but filing off the serial numbers isn’t always enough.

this comment on that vulture article about the "fanfic-to-romance novel pipeline" is very interesting and not something i've seen articulated...much to think about...

[rist-ix]

The sparxshipping teasing from Iginio got me wondering.... if we ever did get canon sparxshipping explored, whether in a reboot or new adaptation, how would you like it for it to be done?

I'm gonna try to answer both of these in one post cause they overlap a little, but first of all thank you!

Buckle up fellas I'm bringing discourse.

This is gonna be a bit of an unpopular opinion I think, and it’s that I don’t want sparxshipping to be canon at all.

Feel free to get the pitchforks, but until then imma talk. I have villainships that I think not only add something to the overall plot, they kind of define it too. Reylo for examples, with its themes of redemption, masks and compassion, or Darklina and how important their relationship is to the war and Grisha oppression, or Lotor and Allura with its symbolism of breaking the cycle of abuse, making peace, reclaiming a heritage thought lost and so on.

To put it very briskly: an established Sparxshipping relationship adds nothing to the plot. It would have to be a plot of its own, and while there are tons of fascinating plot threads you could weave back into Domino, Bloom's family and the war before the Fall, it is simply, plainly, and rightfully so not the story Winx Club is telling.

Winx Club, at its core, is about the girls and their friendship. That is the show I love, and that is the show I am invested in. Fanfiction is a separate thing, I’ll get into that later. But canon, commercially produced and globally aired Winx Club is what we are talking about now. And the one defining truth of Winx Club is that it’s about the Winx. Their boyfriends are the side note, the Kens to their Barbies, to cement them as the cool popular teenagers younger kids are supposed to see them as. If Bloom and Valtor had a lasting serious relationship, Valtor would inevitably have to be shoved into that category as well, and that would ruin the entire appeal of him.

To boil it down even more: if sparxshipping were canon, either Winx Club would have to shift away from its intrinsic premise and formula, or Valtor would have to be diminished beyond recognition. So my longstanding opinion has always been: don’t make sparxshipping canon. Just don’t.

What I, personally, would do if I were ever to gain access to the mythical and likely overcrowded writing room at Rainbow SpA, is this:

Tease the fuck out of it.

Lean into their fucked up little hate-obsession. Every time they share the screen they have to be radiating unresolved sexual tension. Their chemistry has to be so off-the-charts it sparks a million fanfics before the season even ends. If there aren’t so many crappy amv's set to angsty Taylor swift songs it brings down the YouTube servers by midnight you have failed. Because canon is bound to certain limits, but fanfiction is NOT. The goal of any show should be to create something that will awaken an inescapable need to build on it, to continue where it left off, or to wonder but-what-if? To make people text incoherent keysmashes to their fandom buddies with shaky hands in the middle of the night and be unable to sleep until they’ve confirmed their buddy has seen it too.

I would want to see Bloom go fully I-have-lost-sight-of-everything-but-revenge until her friends manage to pull her back, I would want them to fight so vehemently the structures around them collapse and they don’t even notice. They should be in situations where they are UNDENIABLY going to die if they fight on and they still do it, they literally CANNOT stop, they don’t care to. To the point that everyone around them is seriously concerned and talking about their terrifying obsession with each other, more or less out in the open. And after a season full of epic fight scenes, high stake conflicts and frankly obscene tension between them, I would want Bloom to kill him.

Straight up.

Give her that moment of calm self assurance, at peace and perfectly in control, while Valtor tries to gaslight-gatekeep-girlboss his way out of this, contrasting the way her support network and genuine, unconditional friendships strengthen her while Valtor, who is always sabotaging everyone around him, is forced to confront his own powerlessness in the face of the power that created him. His manipulation attempts have nothing to latch on to. They have one last exchange where Valtor is visibly furious at her denial of him / his own failure — to really drive home that this is Bloom's triumph — but the last words they exchange are cordial. Maybe a comment at her growth, or a warning about his mothers, or another way to foreshadow future threats — if he couldn’t defeat her, no one should. He ends on a high note, but he does end, and it’s at Bloom's hands. She retakes the corrupted spark into the Flame she is guarding, and that is that.

And then, and this is important. He fucking haunts her for the entire next story arc. The next season, the next two seasons maybe, because she has learned a fuck ton of things from him and it is really, really difficult to move on knowing everything she does, knowing everything he implied or hinted at, or simply knowing so many really, really cruel ways to get her way now, which isn’t who she wants to be, but it would be easy, quick and effective for the greater good, right?

Boom, character conflict for the next season established, lots of potential for future flashbacks or visions, Valtor stays on his high horse of forever-the-juiciest-fucking-villain-of-the-franchise and the story can move on.

The End

Cue three decades of mind-blowing fanfiction. We all say Thank you Rainbow and cry ourselves to sleep thinking about what could have been.

[erindeadwood]

🦋 Reverse Reylo; Sith Rey tries to seduce Jedi Ben to the dark 🦋

Sith heiress Rey Palpatine lives a secret double life as a fund manager for the Banking Clan on Hosnian Prime. During the day she’s working to secure funding for the First Order and during the night, she dreams about Kylo, a mysterious, masked stranger.

By a stroke of fate, the conflicted Jedi Knight Ben Solo unexpectedly appears at her doorstep one sleepy afternoon. Ben is unaware of it, but Rey realizes that he is the vessel of the dark knight from her dreams.

Seeing an opportunity to be united with Kylo, she begins a wicked game to seduce Ben to the dark side.

[ragnarlothcat]

trope selection tag game

Tagged by @renlyslittlerose (thank you friend!!!)

enemies to lovers or friends to lovers - although truthfully I do like both! I suppose it depends on fandom and the type of enemies involved. Sometimes I think there's too much legwork that needs doing to make an enemies to lovers scenario click and I've got places to be, you know?

coffee shop au or flower shop au - I was not aware that flower shop AUs were an established subgenre of fanfiction. I don't think I've ever read one! But I have read a couple coffee shop AUs and enjoyed them, so.

hurt/comfort or there was only one bed - I have a pretty low angst tolerance (certainly for someone most active in the "betrayal and child murder" fandom) so while I do like the idea of hurt/comfort more for the catharsis, I click out easily if I start to feel too hurt. Whereas I do always love some forced proximity!

found family or partners in crime - I like both! But partners in crime has a high chance of shenanigans. And I've been known to dabble in shenanigans.

canon compliant or canon divergent - again, I am sad and weak and bad at angst and my most active fandom is already maximum angst. I've dabbled in canon compliant fic but when I'm the one writing I tend to gloss over the worst of it. If I want to be miserable about Star Wars I've already got options!

fluff or angst with a happy ending - look, the suffering market is well supplied. Occasionally I show up and write a fic with no plot and no conflict whatsoever. I fulfill a specific ecological niche and I appreciate others who do the same!

1st person pov or 3rd person pov - yeah I'm with lemon on this one. I'm barely tolerant of 1st person in published fiction but I will click out of it instantly for fic.

soulmates or forbidden love - I imagine there are some neat soulmates fics that do interesting things with the trope but as a concept they underwhelm me. Forbidden love is great though. Who is forbidding it? Were they right to do so?

roommates or fake dating - I read one of those Reylo fics that was turned into original fiction and the whole time I was thinking that the story had not provided a good enough reason for the protagonist to pretend to date some guy. In reality randos don't care that much about other people's love lives. But being into a guy who lives in your house and who you can't avoid is very interesting.

slow burn or meet-cute - what can I say? I love a meet-cute. I like an opportunity to describe these characters in elaborate worshipful detail. I'm a simple creature.

love triangle or polyamorous relationship - I don't think I've read or written either! I'm not so much into multiple people as a concept but with a love triangle I suppose you can write the third person off somewhere and let it resolve itself with my blorbos in love.

royalty au or magic au - I don't feel that strongly about this one but I feel like I've read and enjoyed more of the former. Plus in a royalty AU there's a higher chance of Outfits.

high school/college au or neighbours au - if we're talking about obikin (and I often am!) my biggest weakness is professor/student AUs so I am contractually obligated to pick this one.

mutual pining or idiots to lovers - isn't this the same thing? I'm genuinely asking! I always thought idiots to lovers was just a sillier way of describing mutual pining, as in the idiots aren't aware that they're both in love? Maybe the distinction is mutual pining doesn't necessarily work out? In which case I pick idiots to lovers because I do need my piners to get together.

Tagging: @artemisthehuntress, @disast3rtransp0rt, @bi-wan, @intermundia, @thegingerwrites, @betweensaintsandmonsters, @treescape (but as always, no pressure! I have no idea who has been tagged already)

[kylo-skywalkerr]

It has come to my attention that some people apparently didn't know about the Duel of the Fates script??

Okay so here's some of the official concept art for the original (and better) direction that the sequels were meant to go down.

1. Many cool fights were cut from the script. Kylo was supposed to fight a form of Vader to outline how he's always been in the shadow of expectations that Vader left. The Knights of Ren actually got used for more than just a brief battle. The Knights hunted the Resistance actively, and as seen in the art, it wasn't just Ren or Rey fighting them. In fact, Rey kills them, and it makes her fear that she's slipping to the darkside. Rey runs off as Luke had and goes into hiding so that she doesn't use her teachings to be anything like Kylo. In her fight with Kylo Ren, she's blinded.

2. The story also went a far darker route. Years had passed between the movies. Characters were older, and changes were made.

For example, Rose and Finn get sent away to a First Order labor camp for their crimes against the FO.

While I can't find an image for it, the Resistance also takes fewer prisoners with them. Rigging FO ships to explode if they attempted to escape, disguising bb8 as a FO droid to rob their ships, all that fun stuff that wasn't featured as much in the sequels we got.

My favorite part was that Hux was the chancellor. All of the power he wanted was his, and Kylo was alright relinquishing it. It was proof that they were stronger together, with Hux admiring the force and even having a lightsaber collection of his own. Chancellor Hux wishes he had the force and is frustrated that he doesn't, so he keeps Kylo as a tool to use instead of banishing him from the FO or simply killing him.

The darker aspect comes from what Hux does after the Resistance defeats the First Order. In shame for all that Hux lost, he commits suicide with a lightsaber. Another thing to note is that if you read about it, it's mentioned that the lightsaber was supposed to be purple. The concept art, however, shows a red one, like Kylo's. (I'll have to note this particular fact down for later.)

3. Kylo gets stronger. A Sith holocron guides him to a new master, from whom he learns to drain life from and use force lightning.

Eventually, these teachings are used to kill Kylo's new teacher, bringing him closer to the dark side than he was before, despite the internal conflict still being present.

Kylo was also intended to get a new mask! It may or may not have been intended to be a show of his journey, but imo the concept art seemed interesting enough to note.

4. How Kylo's redemption was handled. While hunting a sith artifact, the artifact senses the light in him and pretty much explodes, leaving him disfigured and severely injured. The locals of the planet, despite knowing who he is, help him recover. Kylo begins to reconsider his actions due to the kindness he was shown and works his way towards redemption.

He still dies, but only when Leia stops him from killing Rey. He sacrifices his life to save her as in the original, making his death the endgame in both scripts.

5. Relationships. Reylo isn't a thing, I think she actually kisses Poe or something at a point. Rose and Finn are canon and at the end of their story have force sensitive children. That could have been in the original if not for Disney's "issue" with them being together. (That's not a story for today)

6. Rey's true name was revealed to be Rey Solana. Not Skywalker.

To conclude, the script was fascinating to me. There was redemption, suicide, new characters, different relationships to explore, and so much potential for a darker yet more interesting story than what we got. Thank you for reading!

Here's some sources if you'd like to read more about it yourself, those were just key things to note about the script!

(And of course, a source for where I got the concept art from)

[paranoid-spotlight-everest]

Favorite thing about Reylo?:)

THEY'RE FATED

They're written in the stars! They're connected across space, across their sides and the conflict!! Fucking SOULMATES!!!!!! CANON SOULMATES!!!!!

[stonegoldsxcrxt]

Okay so I honestly haven’t been active on tumblr in forever. But if I’m ever thinking of star wars, I like to take a peek at your blog because I feel like you are one of the few who loves Luke as much as I do. But what I want rn is to give my two cents on this whole acolyte thing. And I hope you don’t think I am trying to come at/attack you or anything of the sort. This is just my (somewhat complicated?) take on things. Sorry if this gets super long. I have many thoughts. And I hope I don’t confuse at all while trying to explain! Unfortunately, I’m not very eloquent lol. Anyway:

Personally? I’m kinda intrigued by the Osha/Qimir dynamic. And this is coming from someone who honestly severely disliked the sequels—especially kylo and reylo (but a lot of it was due to fandom bs as well). I mean, I’ll admit some of it is due to my own bias because this time around I’m glad both of the actors are hot and they are both absolutely acting their asses off. And maybe there hasn’t been enough for you in the show (I get it tbh, the episodes are short and there’s only so much you can do with 8 episodes and this is honestly a problem with D+ and a lot of streaming services now), but I can see what Leslye was aiming for with the dynamic. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is one of my fave movies so I definitely see the influence. But Headland did also point out that a lot of enemies to lovers is about one character going “I know there’s good in you!” or what the hell ever—and Osha didn’t do that. That’s something I can appreciate whereas in TLJ it seemed like Rey was all about freaking Kylo and was convinced there was still good in him even though the literal day before he had nearly killed both her and Finn.

I do disagree about there being no manipulation, though. Qimir IS being honest and vulnerable, but clearly he hopes to gain something with Osha from that. But whereas I didn’t buy any of it with Rey and Kylo, I can see how and why Osha might fall to the dark side. She is clearly conflicted about everything from her emotions to her very own identity. But Qimir is offering her a sense of clarity about that AND on her past. Osha loves and admires Sol deeply of course, but he has obviously been keeping something huge from her. And if it turns out he was majorly involved with whatever happened to her coven, it makes sense that Osha would then embrace whatever negative emotions that are brewing within her (even if Sol was slightly less involved the fact that he knew and never told her should rightfully make her angry). It will obviously destroy whatever faith she had left in the Jedi, but imo she might begin to question how it makes the Jedi any different from Qimir.

And now that I’ve explained that, I also wanted to say how I felt about some of the discourse. Fandom feuds are always annoying, but now that I’m essentially on the other side...? I’ve gotta say I am low-key offended and high-key pissed over it. I mean, if ppl don’t like Qimir or the relationship between him and Osha—fine. But I’ve seen some absolutely disgusting comments over this. Like someone on twitter (who ss a post of yours too) who was calling Leslye Headland’s lesbianism into question. Like idc if you don’t like the ship but there is literally no need for discussing her sexuality like that just because she likes a problematic ship you hate (which she literally created so idk what ppl expected anyways)!!! And then there are the “fans” (I use that term lightly) insulting Manny Jacinto’s looks (which is ridiculous cause the man is hot idgaf). And I honestly think that shit is hypocritical af since a lot of these ppl are fans who were rightfully upset at reylo/kylo stans for saying similar disgusting things about actual people.

I like quite a few villains in multiple fandoms, so to me it seems like the same ridiculous arguments. There’s nothing wrong with liking a fictional character who happens to be a villain. As long as no one’s trying to make excuses for their heinous actions (jokes are another thing) I don’t think it matters. It’s literally not that deep imo. And liking said problematic characters does not have anything to do with people’s real life morals. That’s just bullshit.

And again, it’s actually INCREDIBLY fucking hypocritical, ESPECIALLY coming from star wars fans who have been sexualizing villains like Darth Maul, Thrawn, and a young freaking Darth Vader for YEARS. But now it’s a problem with Qimir????? Not to mention the romanticization of other literal problematic ships like anidala or reylo. And I’ll be honest—as a Filipina????? I do feel like some of this is racially motivated because literally WHAT is the difference with Qimir and Osha/Qimir versus all of these other characters and ships?????? I think that’s what gets me heated is the hypocrisy of it all. And of course the fact that it’s all fictional anyway so I don’t know why it should fucking matter to some people if fans like a character or ship that they don’t.

Anyways...I think this is essentially all of my thoughts on the matter. Again, I hope I didn’t come across as rude or like I was attacking you. Like I said, it IS a bit complicated for me. Because as someone who hardly liked anything from the sequels, I was definitely cringing at the multiple mentions of reylo and kylo in Leslye’s recent interview. And yet....I see the vision.

hey!! so, there's a lot here and I do actually want to talk about all of it! I really appreciate you approaching this with nuance and being open to have a conversation. I'm gonna number my responses just so I know I covered everything I wanted to talk about and everything you mentioned.

One: I don't think there's anything wrong with being intrigued by a character dynamic like Osha and Qimir's, in fact I actually do find it very interesting from a psychological standpoint myself. I also don't think there's anything wrong with depicting a character dynamic like Osha and Qimir's, with one caveat, which is that you have to recognize it for what it is. I truly would LOVE star wars to approach it with the angle of "hey, this is how people can weaponize your own emotions against you, especially how a man may try (and even succeed) in manipulating a woman this way," and particularly what that looks like with the Force, because a LOT of Jedi and Sith principles are based around the acceptance (or aggravation!) of emotions. I think that's a totally interesting plot line that would actually be super fascinating to see. I also find it believable that Osha could, theoretically, be convinced by Qimir and turn (in fact I think your entire third paragraph is a very valid interpretation of what has happened so far). It's not that I don't think these are fascinating possibilities to explore. It's not that I don't think Osha joining the dark side is out of the question or even unreasonable, whatever the reason.

In fact, pre-interview, almost all of my criticism was pointed at the way the fandom immediately jumps to believing everything Qimir is saying without thinking critically about how he could be lying to Osha to get her to act the way that he wants her to. This comes from an intense place of frustration dealing with fandom in general who excuse the violent actions of men towards women (which is the reason why that one post doesn't actually even name Qimir or Osha, even though I did tag their names, since it applies to like a half dozen ships I can think of off the top of my head). In fact, I praised the writing of the acolyte in my breakdown post, assuming that Headland was purposefully creating all the cunning ways Qimir talks to Osha and all the tactics he appears to be using to manipulate her, and that this would be plot relevant. Whether Osha realized she was being manipulated and snapped out of it, or whether she never realized it, and fell to the dark side, and what that would mean for her, etc.

However, post-interview, things are different. No more am I simply dealing with a fandom that is willfully misinterpreting a toxic relationship as romantic, I am now dealing with the showrunner herself saying lots of things that disturb me. I can give her credit for not pulling the "there's good in him" card, but that's about as good as I can do. Headland may say that she does not intend the relationship to be manipulative, that she intends for Osha and Qimir to be equals, but if what she has presented to us onscreen does not read that way, then she has failed to accurately convey her message as the showrunner. You and I agree that Qimir is manipulating Osha, yet Headland says the opposite. I now have a showrunner for Star Wars, a massive franchise viewed by thousands, giving interviews saying that there is nothing wrong with this man's relationship with this young woman, but continuing to show the opposite. She can't have it both ways. The statement "Osha and Qimir are equals," is simply so far removed from the reality of what Headland has presented Qimir to be (a conniving man who is strong enough in the Force to eliminate a dozen Jedi at a time, and is so callus that he calls a girl an "it" after he's murdered her) that it's such an unbelievable statement I actually can't even believe people are buying it. I'm not saying that to be mean; what makes Qimir and Osha equals? Genuinely? That he cooks soup sometimes? That he disrobed in front of her? What about this relationship is equal?

Here's my bottom line when it comes to this discourse: I am sick of seeing young women getting treated like shit by men, and it getting romanticized as hot and desirable instead of what it is. I am sick of it whether the fandom does it, I am sick of it whether the showrunner does it, I am sick of it whether people in real life or in fiction do it, and I am allowed to feel that way.

Two: I won't be insulting Manny Jacinto in any capacity. He's doing a good job as an actor. I have acknowledged in past posts that he is obviously an attractive man.

If you think Qimir is hot, please, by all means, feel free to sexualize him in the manner that others sexualize Thrawn or Maul or anyone else. I'm an advocate of self insert fanfiction and of course (within reason), would find nothing wrong with that.

I am generally not a villain-lover, but there is nothing wrong with finding villains attractive or compelling! I haven't said there is. I have said that there's a problem within fandom and now literally within the media itself, with recognizing when a young woman is being mistreated by someone, sometimes because a lot of you are far more lenient on attractive men. The reylo fandom took this about twenty steps too far from 2015-2019 to the point where if you ask some of them, they still don't think Kylo even WAS the villain, and Headland is rapidly encouraging fans to take that angle with Qimir though I have given evidence to the contrary in spades.

There is a lot to be said about whether or not fiction affects reality. I believe it does, but I obviously do not believe that liking an evil character makes you evil. That being said, while not all fiction has a moral, all fiction has a theme, and you as the audience do take lessons from themes, whether you realize it or not; it sticks with you and may help you form your opinion on a similar set of circumstances you may come face-to-face with later. Fiction affects our feelings on a situation. A disturbing theme I'm seeing a LOT of in Star Wars lately is men being cruel to women in one way or another and the women finding it attractive and acceptable. Of course, depiction is not automatically endorsement... until we have now literally seen this type of relationship fully endorsed by Lucasfilm showrunners and directors twice in a row. Tweens and teenage girls *will* watch the sequel trilogy and the acolyte... what are they taking away from it? From what the director or showrunner has said about it? Honestly, this is much less about fandom to me now, and more about how official creators are treating these dynamics.

Three and finally and most important: I'm sorry that you've been seeing things like that being said about Headland, I think that's bizarre, rude, and uncalled for. I often do not go looking in fandom spaces anymore so I have not seen this, but that doesn't mean it's not out there. I generally do not trust Headland's creative input anymore, nor do I necessarily even like her, HOWEVER, I have not and will not make any such comment on her sexuality as it has nothing to do with any of this. I don't know which post of mine they screenshot, and I'd like more information actually, if they are using my post to say I think those things too, but regardless, I would not say this about her, or about anyone, and I don't condone it.

This is absolutely not racially motivated from me and I want to make that absolutely clear. I have been vehemently anti-reylo since the day I learned it existed, so I hope that you do not feel as though I am speaking out against the way that the Osha and Qimir storyline has been handled out of such a place, and I would never want anything to come across that way in any of my analysis or critiques. You will find I usually have less to say about anidala, seeing as the majority of the fandom does not depict Anakin as "doing nothing wrong" in that relationship, nor does the source material, so I feel I do not have to explain as much as I do with reylo and now Osha/Qimir. I want to make that absolutely clear that this type of relationship being presented in this type of way is a huge red flag for me regardless of the races of the characters involved. If you refer to the fandom at large, I don't want to invalidate your experiences, and don't know what other people are saying or what their reasons are. Unfortunately the acolyte fandom has been riddled with homophobia and racism since before the first episode even aired, and I want to make it clear that I think all of that is entirely unacceptable and that my critiques have nothing to do with either of those hateful ideologies.

[writingwife-83]

I’m making acolyte predictions right here and now and part of it is kinda what I’ve been thinking almost since the beginning of the show. Spoilers below the cut.

Mae and Osha are a dyad in the force. Qimir is clearly looking for the power of a dyad and seems to be trying to achieve it by having someone join him. But ultimately I think he’s going to fail because that’s not really how that works. (Do I see the shipping potential? Especially after ep 6, yes of course I do. Omg that ep was something else lol! You’d have to be blind to miss it. And I’m kinda enjoying it tbh. But I also don’t think that’s going to actually happen.) I think Mae is going to come around to Sol and in talking about what happened in the past perhaps he’ll make things right or make her understand something she didn’t know back then. And then I think Mae is going to be the one to pull Osha back from the dark side, because only she can. Ultimately the power of two will be them, and they’ll be able to defeat Qimir. Idk if they’ll kill him, but I think he’ll at least be gone. I also still kinda think he’s the first Ren, but we’ll see. There’s a reason the director chose to use Kylo’s theme for some of Qimir’s scenes, and I really want to know what that is.

And back to the Oshamir ship for a minute. I get why people are like, omg it’s reylo!! But I just… don’t feel quite the same vibe and can’t feel quite the same way about them. And I think the biggest reason for me is that he’s not Ben. He’s not conflicted. Ben was hurt and conflicted and was trying to hold to the dark side but his grip was slipping. Qimir is holding real tight to it and I don’t think he’s letting go. IMO he’s ending the show as a dark side user, whether dead or alive. Ben’s connection, what he was holding onto, wasn’t to the dark side… it was to Rey. That was his driving force through the whole trilogy. Again though, I’m not saying I’m not enjoying the shippy fun while it lasts.

Anyway, just wanted to share my thoughts. I’m interested to hear what everyone thinks!

[tljisthegoat]

How I'd make Rey's movie basically a soft reboot for Star Wars.

Dark Rey is the best future for Rey's character imo.

After TROS, she's been left with nothing & her desire to see Ben again will consume her.

When she saw his future, she saw her own death & Ben's smile, but she didn't see him being ripped away from her. This leads to her purposely turning to the dark side. Making her the first character in canon to let herself turn in order to achieve her goal.

It's like if Anakin knew the trappings of the dark side but was able to control it without Palpatine's manipulation.

Rey would use Kylo's lightsaber so she could feel closer to Ben. She'd keep Luke, Leia & Anakin's lightsabers on The Millennium Falcon. She becomes an enemy of The Rebellion.

She'd pull a Palpatine and control both sides of the conflict in order to cause imbalance in The Force. She'd go by Rey.

Rey creates new temples for light side & dark side force users. She wouldn't be able to train them just like Luke barely trained her. Both light & dark side students would honor Luke's teachings and his sacrifice for the galaxy.

Rey would tell her students to join The Rebellion after she left them to start her new journey. This would give them a fresh start.

Rey finds Kreia in Vader's old castle on Mustafar.

Rey teams up with Kreia to find Ben but doesn't want to see The Force die unless it's necessary to save Ben.

Rey learns that The Force can be reborn infinitely as it can't permanently die due to being an integral part of the universe. Kreia knows this as well.

Kreia tells Rey about the love story of Darth Revan & Bastilla Shan.

Rey finally reunites with Ben Solo, and they get their happily ever after.

This would lead to many things from Old Canon/Legends coming back into New Canon/Disney Canon.

Reylo would be the new leads for the future of Star Wars (as they should've been if Disney wasn't braindead morons)

[luke-shywalker]

Happy 25th birthday to The Phantom Menace and to me!

I started this blog in 2015, when I started liking Star Wars (because of…the Star Tours ride, for some reason). I was welcomed in by the Luke Skywalker Thirst Squad (and then I betrayed them for Kylo whoops lol). The 2016-2018 Star Wars fandom was such an iconic moment (Anakin Eats Live Bugs, Star Wars Bad Lip Reading, the SNL Kylo skit, Hux’s cat…if you know you know) and I loved suffering through the sequel trilogy with you guys, and I humbly submit to my Reylo overlords as long as they let me keep making my Ben/Rey sibling/cousin AUs. And thank you to everyone who survived teenagerhood alongside me and Ben Solo—we made it fam. :)

Since I revived my Tumblr in late March of this year, three years out of college and newly married, most of the mutuals I knew have faded away (@threadsketchier where are youuu)��but I’ve gotten to meet new friends here, and you know who you are! :D It’s been especially cool to discover the Star Wars/Jesus fandom crossover (as @avercado5 puts it lol—and this also includes you @seeking-elsewhither , the biggest Star Wars fan I know who’s never seen Star Wars XD) And I’m so touched that there are still people down to follow Ask Ben Solo after eight whole years. Lol

I’m thankful to God for bringing me this far in life. Y’all know I’ve been going back into the history of my blog and chuckling at the silly young lady I was. That Adam Driver thirst post from when I was 17 was something indeed. And then there was all the random humblebragging about having poor mental health, which used to leak into my ask blog too. (One time I got some feedback that was like “Hey…can Ben just be happy for like five seconds?” And honestly…valid.) I spent a lot of ages 13-24 being unhappy (some of that was self-inflicted for sure), but recently, things have been pretty good. I know the promise of God isn’t that now I’m out of the woods and life is always gonna be super great now; I know that bigger storms (that He will help me weather) are in my future; but for now, I’m thankful for this happy little reprieve with my handsome husband and my silly little fanfics and my galactic-conflict-enjoyer internet friends. :)

Thank you guys! <3

[rebelrebelwrites]

I’ve decided to resurrect…

Fic Friday! ❤️ Weekly Fic Recs

Years ago, I did this back in the Reylo fandom, but I’m bringing it back for the Saurondriel/Haladriel fandom because: A) I’m still obscenely obsessed B) I’m all about supporting creators and C) Since I’m not currently writing for this fandom, I want to contribute how I can. 😊

Let’s do it!

This week’s recs are…

As always, please mind the tags on any recommended story for your own personal reading preferences.

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The Classic You’ve Heard Of But Somehow Haven’t Read Yet: Across That Fine Line by @myrsinemezzo

What you need to know going in:

A post-S1 that’s got hype for great reason. After stealing the mithril and Fëanor’s hammer, Sauron spirits away to Mordor with Gal hot on his heels. Once they reunite, things get spicy — we’re talking banter, manipulation (on both sides), a devious and devoted Sauron who’s also terrified of falling too far in love (too late, bro), and a Gal who’s rightfully wary but wants to believe that there’s a way to thread the needle with him. As their journey progresses, so does the depth of their dynamic. Plus! Some awesome inclusions/characters from Tolkien lore. All in all, an absolute must-read.

WIP, Rated Explicit

Read the story.

Follow the author on Tumblr and on AO3.

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The AU You Need to Immerse Yourself In Because, Well, Wow: our souls were made from the stars by SilverWing12

What you need to know going in:

Oh gosh, where to even begin??? This lush, brilliant, meticulously measured slow burn of an AU is something I bask in every update. This story sees Mairon delayed in joining Melkor, and instead, he meets Galadriel in Valinor while she's still a child. Hundreds of years pass in which their friendship grows and grows, building to a point of mutual attraction and affection that is stifling in how well-realized and precarious it feels. The world-building, intentionality, pacing, characterization, and mounting pressure in this fic as Mairon falls deeper into darkness and Galadriel grows more suspicious (though both are clearly in love with each other) is simply luxurious.

WIP, Mature

Read the story.

Follow the author on AO3.

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The Complete But Never Forgotten Masterpiece: Queen of the Southlands by @formerlyir

What you need to know going in:

Gal doesn’t find out about Sauron’s deception for years, and as a result, she becomes his Queen. The post-S1 ensuing romance, angst, delicious tension and SCORCHING smut is sublime. Get ready for a delightfully unhinged, very devoted Sauron and a Gal who’s rightfully sharp, incredibly brave, and demands what she’s owed. This fic more than sticks the landing at the conclusion — it shreds it. In the absolute best way. I cheered, folks. Cheered.

Complete, Rated Explicit

Read the story.

Follow the author on Twitter, Instagram, on AO3.

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The WIP That Will Wreck You (In the Best Way): Litost by @demonscantgothere

What you need to know going in:

It’s no secret that this story, as with every other story I’ve read by Helholden, is wonderful — expect to see their work on this list a few times at least. That being said, I think Litost might be my favorite. It’s post-S1, but by many years, starting with Galadriel being captured and brought back to Numenor as a prisoner of Ar-Pharazôn and his new High Priest of the Cult of Melkor… wonder who that could be? 👀🙃 You guessed it, everyone’s favorite Dark Lord! The resulting twists and turns in this fic continue to surprise, and the angst and longing (on both sides) simmers. The dialogue between these two, when they really communicate, is stellar at getting at the heart of their every conflict. It will pierce you — and you’ll love it.

WIP, Rated Mature

Read the story.

Follow the author on Tumblr or AO3.

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The Can't Stop Consuming No Matter What Time It Is Fic: Instruments of Salvation by @scriberated

What you need to know going in:

It's Gal who gets hurt when Orodruin erupts, and as a result, Sauron must save her the only way he can — by forging a bond, all while she still believes he's Halbrand, rightful king of the Southlands. As with all of Scriberated's works, the writing is impeccable, the smut is steamy as all hell, and the characterization is 🤌🤌🤌. As Gal and Hal/Sauron's bond grows in strength, so does the pace at which you'll consume this tantalizing treat of a fic. Stop reading because it's bedtime? Doubtful.

WIP, Rated Explicit

Read the story.

Follow the author on Tumblr or AO3.

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🤩🤩🤩

Me at all these fics:

Don't see your story on this list yet? Keyword: yet. Please don't fret! I can only recommend so many each week, but I am always looking for more stuff to read, share, and generally shower with love, so please feel free to reply with your own fics or your personal faves. I have plenty more to recommend... ❤️

Until next week!

[caparrucia]

12, 13, and 17 for the fic writer asks, please?

12. Are there any tropes you used to dislike but have grown on you?

I still don't read it widely, because most of it hits my "but what's the point then?" pickiness for AUs, but a friend recently explained her time travel fix-it AU as a version of an isekai and that sort of made the appeal of it click in my head in a way it'd never had before. I still think the trope itself is not something I'd go as my first choice, because my vibe is more either miscommunication or mystery, and having a POV character that knows everything - and very often has no reason to not share/use that knowledge - makes it very conflict-free for me. The thing that clicked for me is the same way that my favorite isekai stories are ones that either the OP protagonist doesn't know they're OP or their OPness is gated behind world knowledge that they have to acquire first before making use of said OPness. So I think I like time travel fic in theory now, I just haven't read one that hits the spot because it's not a trope I seek out often. But I kinda get it now! I think!

13. Are there any tropes you used to like but don’t anymore?

Modern renditions of enemies-to-lovers are so fucking exhausting in how hard people are trying to sand down any bit of objectionable, problematic aspect of that kind of relationship. I love me a good, brutal actual!enemies to actual!lovers story that wrestles with the history and baggage of that kind of thing. But post!Reylo fandom is more worried about "not romanticizing abuse" than telling a good, compelling story. E2L are supposed to be messy, problematic, dark romance stories full of questionable tropes. That's what makes it fun! But the way any whiff of conflict is constantly smothered away because "We Do Not Condone That Here" messaging is more important than a coherent, IC story is just. Blah. One day, my favorite toxic love trope will come home from the war. One day.

17. What highly specific AU do you want to read or write even though you might be the only person to appreciate it?

Witcher 3 fusion AUs are my personal catnip. I specify Witcher 3 because I understand the Netflix trainwreck was the entry point for a lot of the fandom and that's great, but the writing of the Netflix show is infinitely subpar to the actual books and even the Witcher 3 version of the characters. The Witcher 3 softens a lot of the harsher edges of characters in the books (hi Emhyr, my forever problematique baby girl, how are you today, your imperial colonialist dipshit incestuous majesty?) but it still maintains the tone in a way that makes it so the harsher, more shocking aspects of it don't read like "for shock value" and have actual consequences. It's a rough world with rough edges and it's a setting rife for stories of all sorts, to scratch that nice medieval pseudo-realistic fantasy setting itch, while still allowing space for some hilarious comedy and nuanced politics.

However, somehow, people who played the game somehow come out with the urge to write unironic, mindless colonialism apologia - we all know why - or quirky funny romance because Netflix!Jaskier is so memeable.

Look, I have almost 3K hours in the Witcher 3, I understand I am not the target audience for Witcher fandom which is why I don't really wade into it often, but I want people to write more Witcher 3 fusion stories because it's a fantastic setting to grab your favorite characters and plop them into and see what they do. It's great.

[goblins-riddles-or-frocks]

Mm I saw your previous answers to the anon who was talking about gothic romance and gender roles. I don’t think that even with solid themes, a light/sun love interest and a dark/shadow female protagonist would do as well as the default. The shadow/darkness are tied to sexuality and the light/sun female protagonist is often an ingenue, sexually inexperienced and the dark/shadow male is a kind of sexual awakening (?). Even so, the woman still tends to be more passive in their sexual relationship…. Something something real women feel shame when it comes to sex, and the big man controlling everything allows them to not feel so guilty. This is sooo overwhelmingly popular in romance stories so I don’t see how the reverse could have something that appeals to women (generally) in a similar way. There’s also a general disgust for sunshine guys in fantasy romance circles. There’s more variation in contemp/romcom. I hope I don’t sound argumentative. I just wanted to share my irrelevant 2 cents

Re: these asks

I think it depends on what you consider success. If we’re only talking about appealing to the subset of people who are like “the female protagonist MUST be barefoot and pregnant by the end of the story otherwise the writers have personally betrayed me” then like… yeah you’re not getting anywhere with them. I’m aware of that though and referenced it in the tags, my suggestion would be to just not cater to that audience if you give a shit about female characters having any agency.

But like liking villain and protagonist dynamics has existed before and beyond that particular audience.

Also I personally feel like Zoyalai and how people enjoy it in the fandom is like… basically only one step removed from the dynamic we’re talking about. Considering how successful that was, and the rip offs of it are, I think there’s a lot of room for similar dynamics with heightened ETL type conflict.

You’re right that the particular migratory DDLG fandom that went from like Reylo to Darklina to Haladriel to Daemyra aren’t going to be game. And I think you’re right in how engagement with these types of ships usually reads. But like there are other people out there who enjoy villains shfgf

Also, I think writing good stories creates trends, creates appeal for them.