#come on weat/tdf

[adventure-showdown]

What is your favourite Doctor Who story?

TOURNAMENT MASTERPOST

synopses and propaganda under the cut

World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls

Synopsis

The Doctor decides to test how good Missy has become by sending her on a trial run with Bill and Nardole. However, when things go wrong, the Doctor takes over. With Bill trapped in a different time zone, can the Doctor make it to her before it is too late, and who are all those people getting cured?

Propaganda no propaganda submitted

The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances

Synopsis

Chasing a metallic object through the Time Vortex, the Ninth Doctor and his companion, Rose Tyler, arrive in London during the Blitz. While Rose meets "Captain Jack Harkness", the dashing Time Agent responsible for bringing the object, the Doctor finds a group of homeless children terrorised by Jamie, an "empty" child wearing a gas mask.

Propaganda no propaganda submitted  

[minimoefoe]

wild blue yonder thoughts

(initial live watch and next day rewatch)

live

- the very beginning for a second was giving me ascension of the cybermen vibes, like bright, green, really calm idk

- not sure if the newton stuff was funny or cringe

- all that happening bc donna spilt some coffee is so dumb 😭 like okay the tardis is weak as fuck

- the amount of cgi was mildly off-putting at times but also like obviously a corridor like that would need to be in large part cgi

- 14 may have just meant newton was good looking generally and also his 'is that who I am now' comment was probs more of a 'oh am I the kind of person to find ppl attractive/be open about it' rather than a 'do I fancy men now' moment (tho donna assuming it was kinda funny) but also I'm hoping 14 being kinda openly attracted to men is a sign for what 15 is gonna be like. like let's keep it going and have a male love interest.........?

- fake donna and fake 14 were so creepy like I stg right as fake 14 showed up to the way it was shot made me feel weird bc it just wasn't showing him and I was like well show him then and then it did and I was like oh he's normal okay but then it went down hill fr dt was v creepy

- the long ass arms and stuff was simultaneously unserious and creepy as fuck

- flux and timeless child mention ahhhhh I kinda am obsessed with it and I really hope it's a sign that rtd is gonna explore it a bit more (which based on xmas special info he seemingly is). I love the way it ended with 13 but there's defo room there to explore more about how the doctor really feels about it all and accepting it. bc it's one thing to decide you don't want the memories but it's another to actually come to terms with it all

- the vibes were kinda midnight-y, like monsters impersonating and tryna copy someone and replace them yknow

- wilf <333333

- I'm writing this up right after it ended and I haven't looked at what other ppl thought and I didn't type up my thoughts as I was watching so I probs forgot a ton of stuff that I had opinions on but anyways. I cheered

rewatch

- ppl getting mad that isaac newton isn't white is so predictable like omg I couldn't imagine giving a fuck. that scene is defo cringe tho but it's fine. I like the 'have you got the controls set to famous' line

- the tardis playing that song is so funny like she looooves the drama tbh

- I hope the mavity thing continues for a long time but I don't want it to get mentioned every episode bc that'll get old very quick

- 14 acknowledging that newton was hot and then being like 'is that was I do now' is defo a him being like oh do I notice attractiveness and be open about it now situation and not an oh am I gay now situation bc the doctor has BEEN fancying men. and it fits with the moments from the star beast where he says he loves people and is like oh do I say that now

- the let's go and kick it's ass line, and the way it's shot idk, is not very good

- seeing the outside of the ship was sooo weat/tdf vibes

- the doctor joking around with donna about dying is my fave I miss the doctor being like this fr (that's NOT a chib diss)

- the timeless child and flux mentions and the doctor finally being open with someone but then it ends up not actually being donna oh I'm gonna lose my whole mind I'm so obsessed with that scene and then meanwhile donna figures out she's with the fake doctor like the genius she is

- and THEN the doctor's little tantrum that I and most others was clowning on before the ep came out but actually it ends up being kinda harrowing liiiiike woah

- obsessed with the scene where they're separated by the glass wall

- fake donna in the tardis and real donna stuck out there.. ctate actor of all time

- I really did think for a second that donna was gonna die on first watch and how wild would that have been especially if the doctor didn't end up noticing fake donna and we were stuck with her for the giggle. probably woulda been a nightmare tbh so I'm glad it didn't happen but also idk

- donna saying the doctor timed getting back to avoid the awkward convo makes me think of all the times chib had shit happen to avoid having the doctor and (usually) yaz complete a convo, it used to drive me crazy it was so annoying

- wilf <33333

- I kinda wish we saw the toymaker in the background during all that drama that was going on at the end

[rawwkfingers]

Revenge of the Cybermen

What comes up must come down I suppose. This was, by far, my least favorite Classic Cyberman story (so far at least.) Largely because they didn't even feel like Cybermen at all? They had the look, but the way they spoke, both in dialect and word choice, felt like it could have been any evil alien menace, not the cyborg-esque Cybermen

The Vogans were fine, though the whole "alien civilization with a peaceful-if-meek ruler and a ruthless power-hungry warrior" schtick was already old by the Second Doctor's time. I thought we'd moved on from that but I guess not.

The main cast gave stellar performances, as always, though I do hope that Harry leaves after next serial. He's fine, but he's just so similar to every other male companion we've gotten so far in Classic, and I feel like having him present diminishes the opportunities for Sarah Jane to shine

Overall, Season 12 was kind of a mixed bag tbh

Genesis of the Daleks. Was there any doubt? Considered to be the best of the best of all of Classic Doctor Who, some even say all of Who even now (tho I still place Heaven Sent and WEAT/TDF above.) Its everything you could ever want from a Dalek story

The Ark in Space. It says so much about just how great Genesis is if this is second place because this was truly a great serial. The discussions on what it means to be human, a really well-designed alien menace, an interesting scifi concept. It's really strong, but alas it's not Genesis

Robot. I felt it had a strong opening act and it was a great introduction to Baker but by the end, once the Robot became a generic AI villain, I lost interest so it can't be higher than this.

The Sontaran Experiment. I welcome more opportunities to learn more about the Sontarans but the serial was too short to really have any weight to it

Revenge of the Cybermen. I wouldn't say it was BAD but it felt like filler and as I mentioned, I'm not a fan of how the Cybermen were depicted here

[natequarter]

if we had world enough and time... like weat/tdf is the right person and a very wrong time missy just wants to be his FRIEND she wants to trust him and in turn be trusted and she tries to act cool and funny but her past comes back to haunt her and there's just not enough time and not enough words............ if we had world enough and time this coyness lady were no crime

[grassangel]

1, 5, 15

1) is there a story you’re holding off on writing for some reason?

Mostly, I'll write down a sentence or two, or maybe a summary and then just lose interest, either almost immediately or over the next few months. That's usually the reason why things don't get finished.

But there are two ideas that I'm hesistant to start/go further because they're big AUs and represent a huge commitment. One's a Lokane AU, where Jane gets imprisoned on Asgard for her own safety and becomes close with Loki because he's the only intelligent conversation she's able to have for a month. The other is the lengthier version of a WEaT/TDF fix-it/AU where Missy's backseat driving means the TARDIS doesn't land on the colony ship, saving Nardole and Bill from their fates, but she and the Doctor still find their way down there and find the Simm!Master. And at least one of them dies down there, but there's a lot of feelings and tension, and the action is split between the colony ship and the TARDIS, where Nardole and Bill are trying their best to save them as well.

Both are complex and plotty and will definitely be lengthy, with lots of PoVs shifts. So yeah, commitment.

5) character you were most surprised to end up writing

I don't think I get surprised necessarily. Frustrated that my starting character wasn't the right one and having to start over. Soometimes I'm surprised that I want to approach a story from a particular character's perspective, but never 'wait, where did they come from?'

I didn't think I'd end up caring quite as much about Natasha's friendship and familiarity with Tony (in a 3/4 finished MCU fic), so tempted to push Holmes' relationship with Morstan further than intended (a 5+1 casefic ACD Sherlock fake married thing that's a behemoth), or doing River/Thirteen breast worship, which is surprising because I didn't ever see myself writing that pairing as much as I think it's a cute dynamic. (Though that's pretty much why I decided on doing it.)

15) why did you start writing?

This is the easiest to answer. I was homeschooled until I was six, and I was taught how to write by being asked to tell stories. So it's something I've always done. Why I've continued? Partially spite - wanting more of the stories I want to see in the world. Partly I just love words and finding the right one, the right order, to desrcribe what I'm seeing and feeling in my head. Again when I was little there was a segment on radio on the weekends with an etymologist; where words come from and how they're used. And I love that, I love word play like puns and spoonerisms, and how 'chewing someone out' and 'eating someone out' are two very different things.

[elsandifer]

Thanks - I was counting forward, and found that on an uninterrupted run, WEAT/TDF, with its Master/Missy past-murdering-the-future theme, would directly precede Brexit Day. Glumly apt, no?

Oh god. I don’t think I can handle that. Now I’m definitely leaning towards a ten week break. Especially since that’ll probably drop the break right around the start of Class, and the Blackstar entry would be a perfectly good pause.

Also it’d be grimly funny to take a ten week break and then come back with a thirteen entry run containing exactly one Doctor Who episode. (And I tend to find runs like that much harder to write than episodes, so doing them while the show is also on is likely to just be a ten week productivity death spiral.)

[politicalprocrastinator]

The problem with 'The Doctor Falls'

This is the world's latest review but since I am writing my first big™ uni essay on dr who I rewatched tdf today and boy do I have opinions....

I read in doctor who magazine that this script went out only 2 weeks before production began and it shows on screen. The narrative is clunky, which is a real shame considering that 'world enough and time' was solid enough. Weat's issues were two fold - number one when we were watching bill's struggles she was completely devoid of autonomy. (And yes, I get that was the point™ but it seemed out of character for bill to just sit around for 10 years, my god). Also the John Simm reveal was dragged out too long - there is a fine line between tension and panto and that reveal just crossed the line by two scenes.

Apart from that WEAT is a really solid ep. The world building is phenomenal (thanks @racheltalalay for the directing) and the stakes were raised.

But then they just fall flat in tdf. First we change the setting (completely unnecessary and makes it much less frightening than the post apocalyptic Mondasian spaceship). Then we reveal that the villain of the cliffhanger, the first time two masters have teamed up on the show... is not the central villain of the piece. Wait, what?

Thus flinging the finale into the quantity over quality puddle that Moffat fell into with 'The Pandora Opens'. It's a dramatic fallacy to just list how bad the bad guys are.. show not tell, please.

It could be a brilliant parallel to 'death in heaven' - the master and the cybermen, except this time she's good. But Missy was still the threat in dih. In this the diabolical schemes of simm amount to bill as a cyberman, and a cyber army unleashed?

These cybermen aren't fully fleshed out as villains and consequentially feel ornamental. And we especially don't feel the threat with the change of setting. Where do the children come from? They were not foreshadowed in Weat, that's for sure.

And the most irritating thing is they didn't have to be the world's most dastardly bad guys because they were meant to be secondary to the master. But, you don't need the second most famous doctor who monster for that. You need something like toclafane, scary but not legendary foes that have kept children hiding behind the sofa for 51 years.

(I understand we need Mondasian cybermen to lead into 'Twice Upon a Time' but my point is they were unnecessary to the drama of tdf.)

Let's get onto the masters. The central drama between these two characters was the idea that the ultimate narcissist wants to snog himself. The moment where missy stabs herself in the back would be far more dramatic if simm actually wielded any power. Therefore she would really be standing for good against evil, not just good against cowardice (which could be argued as evil but the show never makes that point).

And Bill. Oh my god moffat why? You really upped your game this season by showing a commitment to diversity. Bill was meant to be this breath of fresh air in terms of representation female characters. And how does she end? Unable to express emotion since that is now deadly, forced into captivity where white men tell her how to behave since she's scary. Do you see the problem here?

All this just fed back into the weakness of this episode's drama. I've already compared it, but think of tdf in conjuction to 'the sound of drums'. That episode is arguably similar, character based drama over the threat of annihilation. But that episode is all about giving Martha agency. Bill ends her story randomly saved by heather. There was no precedent for her to appear in that story apart from the tears in 'the pilot'. It felt like a fast little wrap up cos moffat had way too many things going on in this story.

And Nardole jesus. His storyline should have been the comic relief gets to be a hero for once. Instead, moffat couldn't help himself by write another random woman to make bad innuendo at a fucking robot. I mean really?

Tl:dr Moffat tried too many things in this story. There were excellent moments, but it was overall a bit meandering when it could have been amazing.