#clodia cicero caelius catullus or whatever

[girlcaelius]

you could make a toxic foursome out of this..

[catilinas]

Pro caelio fiction Ranking please? 😌

ok! but this is based off me not having read some of these books for A While bcs i am. not going to try and find them in my book-heap right now

shit tier: i will Not be reading any more of j*hn m*ddox r*berts’ spqr novels because “the catiline conspiracy” was unbelievably bad, but i assume whatever his take on the pro caelio is would go here. actually wait i just checked he doesn’t even have a mystery novel that covers it. which is good because i bet his characterisation of clodia is as flat and misogynistic as all his female characters :). similarly, the rsc cicero plays chose to cut the pro caelio in the timeskip, which is Bad because their caelius was perfect, but like...... their characterisation of women was also bad! so good that there was no pro caelio directed against clodia

bad tier: ok less bad than ?????? is the door in the wall by benita kane jaro. i love this book but reading it feels kinda like passing out? As In, there are so many hot takes in this book Literally Narrated By Caelius that i can’t remember anything at all about the pro caelio. extremely cool of bkj to make the rest of caelius’ life so interesting that the thing he is perhaps Most Well Known For is forgettable, but also Not cool if we are ranking That Exact Thing. also whichever masters of rome book has the pro caelio in it...... so forgettable that i forget what happened

ok tier: dictator by robert harris. his controversial takes are that the p. clodius involved in the prosecution was p. clodius pulcher and not one of his freedmen, and that Clodia Was Actually There. makes it more dramatic ig. pros are that i love his characterisation of caelius (the bit where tiro goes to find him and his toga is all creased and then he throws up? iconic), cons are that sure, robert harris writes a more nuanced clodia than her adaptation in the rsc plays, but also...... it could still be better! and like there’s some subplot about cicero being so rude about clodia to get revenge for clodia being terrible to terentia while cicero was in exile? im really not a fan of this plotline At All, and especially not this resolution of it!!! @ historical fiction authors: Let Clodia Be Friends With Other Women, Please.

good tier: good tier is characterised by Weird Takes On Catullus. the key by benita kane jaro (again!) overlaps a lot w the door in the wall but pro caelio highlights are: caelius is so distracted by not noticing how in love he is with catullus that he’s like “oh yeah btw at this time i was being prosecuted for murdering an alexandrian ambassador :))) no big deal though!” and then as he sits through His Own Trial he fixates on catullus standing in the crowd with a ROCK that he is THIS close to throwing at cicero when he shittalks clodia. robert harris could never. on the other end of the Catullus’ Opinions On The Best Of All Orators is the venus throw by steven saylor, where the protag is working for the prosecution, and also (as always) Really Doesn’t Like Cicero, and so for once!!! we get a view of the pro caelio that isn’t just “oh marcus tullius you are so good at forensic oratory!!! characterisation of clodia who?” and also steven saylor’s clodia (and her relationship w clodius!) is extremely good. the Hot Catullus Take (i got distracted by Loving Steven Saylor) is that the pro caelio is a collab between cicero and catullus and “palatina medea” and “quadrantaria clytemnestra” and i think some other bits were catullus’ writing. also caelius is catullus’ ex. perfect

what the fuck tier: attis by tom holland, where caelius is Not being prosecuted for murdering an alexandrian ambassador, but is instead being prosecuted for a string of ritual axe-murders, that it turns out were actually committed by the murderclowns that union-boss clodius hires to follow catullus around while threatening playing the violin. hot takes are that the affair between caelius and clodia was FAKE and cicero made it up for notes tricked catullus into thinking it was real so he would testify in caelius’ favour. caelius is catullus’ ex in this one too. not long after caelius is acquitted the murderclowns murder clodius in the car park of the archeological site where catullus works, and the resulting riots lead to caesar, who is possibly the european union(?), invading rome. catullus and clodia ride off into the sunset / to Titus Lucretius Carus The Astrophysicist’s Observatory on clodia’s motorbike and then catullus fucking dies? or maybe timetravels back to the start of the novel; it is unclear. to get the true What The Fuck Is Attis’ Version Of The Pro Caelio Experience you have to read the whole sequence on a plane at 2am after drinking a Lot of coca cola

[plasmapop]

may i ask: what are the "other things" in your translation of catullus 51?

is this the translation from 25/11? WELL:

so one of my fave (fiction) books about catullus is the venus throw by steven saylor. which contains the quote (said by catullus, about clodia and caelius) “I’ve loved them both. The glittering Venus of Roman society, the petulant Adonis. Who could be surprised when the two of them decided to love each other and turn the country bumpkin from Verona out of their beds? Those two together, without me—that was more than I could stand.” so that was one of the main things in my brain when i did this translation

going from “clodia is so like a god she elevates anyone near her to divine status” to “clodia and caelius are both gods (for whatever reason) above poor mortal me” is not that big a jump and uh. venus and adonis in the quote made that become a more prominent thing. “glittering” laughter is glittering venus. h

“your words gleam golden” is pro caelio moods—cicero says smth like “there are two charges: gold and poison”. what seems like a good shiny attribute of the gods is gonna go sour in the future!

“everything’s stolen”, the “creeping flame”, then sickness, poison, and ruining a friendship, are all images from catullus 77. which is addressed to a rufus.... i can’t prove it but i think 77 is about caelius and the pro caelio. it’s got caelius stealing something from catullus, ruining their friendship by “poisoning” (hmm) catullus’ “life” (that be clodia...) like begone wiseman but that’s my onion

and then the idea of a poem as a warning to caelius is the mood of catullus 58. which is maybe a warning too late, but

BASICALLY my goblin brain got historical fiction (also attis and the key), and the pro caelio, and catullus 77 and 58, and mushed it all together with the primary intent to have the name reveal caelius surprise the SHIT out of my friend