#chinese honorifics

[dkniade]

What a comprehensive list! Thank you!

Also for bei/輩 if it’s wan (late) vs zhang (grow) then it’s actually more so wanbei (晚輩) vs zhangbei (長輩)

(完 can mean “whole” or “end” or “finish”)

On xian/仙, I’ve also heard of translating it to “transcendent”. Fae seems like a nice western equivalent though haha

Terms You Might Want To Know For Your Wuxia/Xianxia Fic

MXTX's danmei are getting increasingly popular, and the fandoms are getting more fic-happy. I've noticed that some writers seem interested in writing their own fics but are concerned of making mistakes with niche honorifics and titles. I've noticed some that have jumped right in, but have made innocent errors that I'd like to correct but fear coming off as rude or presumptuous. And so I've made this list of terms that covers the basics and also some that are a little more niche since they're usually directly translated in cnovels.

DISCLAIMER: This is by no means a comprehensive list of everything one needs to know or would want to know concerning ancient Chinese honorifics and titles, merely what I myself consider useful to keep in mind.

Titles

Shifu: 'Martial father'; gender-neutral

Shizun: 'Martial father'; more formal than 'shifu'; gender-neutral

Shimu: ‘Martial mother’; wife of your martial teacher

Shiniang: ‘Martial mother’; wife of your martial teacher who is also a martial teacher

Shibo: elder apprentice-brother of your shifu; gender-neutral

Shishu: younger apprentice-brother of your shifu; gender-neutral

Shigu: apprentice-sister of your shifu

Shizhi: your martial nephew/niece

Shimei: younger female apprentice of the same generation as you

Shijie: elder female apprentice of the same generation as you

Shidi: younger male apprentice of the same generation as you

Shixiong: elder male apprentice of the same generation as you

Shige: elder male apprentice of the same generation as you, specifically one who has the same shifu as you or is the son of your shifu

Zhanglao: an elder of your sect

Zhangbei: a senior of your sect

Qianbei: a senior not of your sect

Wanbei: a junior not of your sect

Zongzhu: Address for a clan leader

Zhangmen: address for a sect leader

Daozhang: Daoist priests or simply a cultivator in general; gender-neutral

Daogu: Daoist priestess or a female cultivator; not as commonly used as 'daozhang'

Xiangu: Daoist priestess or a female cultivator; not as commonly used as 'daogu'

Sanren: a wandering cultivator

Xianren: 'Immortal Official'; a title of respect and power like 'General'

Xiuzhe: 'Cultivator', can be shortened to 'Xiu'

Xianjun: 'Immortal Master/Lord'

Xianshi: 'Immortal Master/Teacher'

Dashi: 'Great Teacher', address for monks

Xiansheng: Teacher/Sir; in ancient China, the connotation is very scholastic

Houye: address for a duke

Jueye: address for a noble lord, ei. a duke, marquess, earl, etc.

Wangye: address for king/imperial prince

Daren: address for imperial officials

Furen: Madam; the wife of an imperial official/nobleman OR a married woman granted a rank by the royal family

Nushi: Madam; the counterpart of 'xiansheng', connotation is scholastic

Taitai: Madam; address for an old married woman of the gentry, either wife or mother to head of household

Laoye: Old Lord; Address for an adult man with adult children of the gentry; possibly head of household

Nainai: Madam; Address for a married woman of the gentry, possibly wife of head of household

Ye: Lord; address for an adult man of the gentry, possibly head of household

Shaonainai: Young Madam; address for a woman married to a young man of the gentry

Shaoye: Young Lord; address for a young man or boy of the gentry, generation lower than head of household

Xiaoye: Little Lord; can be a synonym for ‘shaoye’ OR the son of a shaoye if ‘shaoye’ is already being used within the family

Xiaojie: Young Mistress; address for an unmarried woman or young girl of . . . the gentry and only the gentry, I believe. Correct me if you know for certain this is incorrect. (WARNING - It's an archaic term that should really only be used in an archaic setting if being used as a title instead of a suffix, because the modern vernacular has it as a term for a prostitute in mainland China. [Surname]-xiaojie is fine; Xiaojie by itself should be avoided.)

Gongzi: ‘Young Master/Lord/Sir'; ‘Childe’; young man from a household of the noble or gentry class

Guniang: 'Young Master/Lady/Miss'; ‘Maiden’; an unmarried woman or young girl from a household of the noble or gentry class

Laozhang: 'Old battle'; polite address for an unrelated old man of lower status than you

Laobo: polite address for an unrelated old man of a higher status that you

Laotou: 'Old man'; informal but not derogatory, implies fondness/closeness

Laopopo: 'Old woman'; informal but not derogatory, implies fondness/closeness

Please note that all of these listed above can be used as stand-alone titles or as suffixed honorifics.

Strictly Prefix/Suffix

-shi: 'Clan'; the suffix for a married woman, essentially means 'née'. (ex. Say Wei Wuxian was a woman and married into the Lan clan through a standard marriage. She would be called 'Wei-shi' by her husband's contemporaries and elders when not in a formal setting. It implies lack of closeness; used by acquaintances.)

a-: A prefix that shows affection or intimacy.

-er: A suffix that shows affection or intimacy; typically for children or those younger than you

-jun: 'Nobleman'; a suffix for a greatly respected man

-zun: 'Revered One'; a suffix for a greatly respected man

-ji: A suffix for a female friend

-bo: A suffix for an older man of your grandparents' generation

-po: A suffix for an older woman of your grandparents' generation

[zareleonis]

A little clarification on how Neuvillette addresses Furina in her story quest—in English it's rendered as "Miss Furina," and shortly after "Lady Furina," implying he uses a different honorific each time.

However, in both these lines Neuvillette actually uses 女士/nǚshì, the same way he has always addressed Furina in the past, barring the instances where he only uses her name, which he only does in private and generally not to her face.

When Furina asks the NPCs in the quest to stop calling her "Lady Furina," they switch from 大人/dàrén to calling her 女士/nǚshì/Miss Furina. Previously Neuvillette was the only character who called her that. When he did, it was always rendered in English as "Lady Furina," the same as the other more reverent honorific.

So no actual change between them in this regard, just the translation team finding themselves in a bit of a bind over how to translate it going forward where the two are concerned!

[misfitreferences]

AMAZING RESOURCE for ancient Chinese ranks & titles!!!! Everyone say thank you NYANOVELS!

[spitblaze]

i do love that someone thinks that this makes for compelling criticism of localization instead of sounding like a 4chan greentext about weebs' heads exploding when the anime says 'bob had four red apples' instead of 'bob had four apples that are red' (the literal translation that has been butchered by localization)

[susagnon]

Is it possible (JoL is a sci-fi fantasy in an alternate timeline, so probably yes?) that Sizhe was elevated to dizi, while his mother still remains a side-wife/concubine formally? I agree that normally a family of Madam Liu's standing probably wouldn't have accepted her to be married into another family a a concubine. But perhaps they struck an explicit agreement with Fan Jian, that Liu Ruyu's children would be considered "main" children, no matter her own formal status (perhaps Sizhe wasn't even elevated, but recorded as dizi from the get-go)? As Ruoruo's mother has passed away before Liu Ruyu entered the Fan clan, perhaps the Liu family thought that aside from formal recognition, Ruyu would be treated as the matriarch anyways, ... Which seems to be the case, for the most part.

I've also read somewhere (reddit?) that one of the reasons Fan Jian didn't elevate Liu Ruyu, was to avoid giving her to much formal authority over a young Ruoruo, in case Ruyu followed the evil stepmom trope. Aka a safety measure for his eldest daughter, born to his deceased, first wife. E.g., if Fan Jian died, Ruyu can't just marry off Ruoruo to anyone at her own will.

If that's the case, I applaud Fan Jian. Obviously you shouldn't bring someone that you mistrust into your family. But in these settings, you usually get to know your spouse after stepping in front of the alter with them.

And if I had children from previous relationships, I wouldn't take my chances in any way, as my children's safety would always be paramount to ettiquette, or anyone's pride.

I noticed that Fan Sizhe’s mother was standing off to the side while they were approaching Fan Jian to make their wedding vows, and I wondered if Fan Xian was going to let it go.

I love that he didn’t. I love that he said she should take the empty seat that is meant for the legal wife, and that she did. And that Fan Xian and Wan'er bow to both of them. (I wonder what Fan Xian would have done if it had been possible for Wu Zhu to be present.)

And I adore that I was so wrong about this particular wedding in cdrama, and they got to have this!

And later, when they exchange rings under the stars. That was like a private wedding for just them and it was perfect.

[roseofthewind]

Genshin impact's English translators have had a lot of honorifics and forms of address to try and wrestle into something that makes sense in English, and I just had a moment of stark clarity on how I desperately wish they had handled Furina's honorifics.

If you had to pick, what form of government would you say Fontaine employs? I say, a monarchy!

In addition to being an administrative building, the Palais Mermonia is quite like a royal palace. The prophecy explicitly references Furina crying on her throne, and you have her literal throne as her seat in the opera house as well.

In which case, the Archon is the king, and Furina would be addressed as Your Majesty.

This localization would also make it much easier to get across that Neuvillette does not refer to Furina the same way the common people do- they are more or less equals, after all. If everyone else is calling Furina "Your Majesty," then Neuvillette can call her "Lady Furina," and I believe this would be much more in line with the spirit of the original.

[1-800-i-ship-it]

scooby dooby blu where are you

im in link click and orv hell xD

about to visit arcane hell soon...

where are you 👀

[marlowethelibrarian]

OC name tag!

from @nczaversnick!

Rules: I want to know how you came up with your original character’s names and personalities. Are they based on people in your real life? Are they straight from your brain? Are they a mix of several people?

Most of my book characters are like, rp ocs that I developed and arranged like five different puzzles into the most beautiful and most chaotic mural I could imagine. seriously, i have two versions of one character that both made it into project cannibalism. I wonder if anyone will be able to tell-- they ended up being pretty distinct.

As for the actual names in the story, they're all made up of conlangs I rolled up in the vulgar lang app. I really mostly just cram syllables together until I find something I like the sound of, sometimes stealing first letter from any base characters these versions come from. Rakani and Ravi are pretty obviously this, I think.

The names in my book are also fairly long. Suyan names are made up of three parts, the Clan name, the "ne'" which means "of" then lineage name, passed down from your mother and then the individual name which comes last.

So Rakani's full name is Okono ne' Silaena Rakani, which means they are from the Okono clan, only okono means nothing, which means Rakani is clanless, and therefore nothing.

It's a hard world out there to be Okono tbh.

In comparison, their mother was Okemae ne' Silaena Marake.

You address people by Clan first, then lineage, then individual, depending on how close you are to that person and also contextually. If you're surrounded by Daseri clansfolk, then you'll probably start referring to people by family name, and if you're just at the family reunion, you'll probably refer to people by their individual names, with titles conferring appropriate formality if necessary. It's kind of vibes based, honestly.

Taglist for Project Cannibalism, for world building!! (ask for +/-) @cowboybrunch, @mantis-lizbian, @orions-quill, @saturnine-saturneight

Tagging for the meme- any of the projecttaglist ppl obvs can go for it, and then also @fortunatetragedy, @illarian-rambling, @somethingclevermahogony!

[saltyyetbland]

okay but im so happy that we are getting a non-latin alphabet language being added to the qsmp cause yay new language, new culture, very exciting and im happy that quackity studios posted that thread as well cause for at least languages that use the same alphabet, people can make guesses on what words mean but like looking at english vs korean or chinese for example, like you can't just guess that based on latin alphabet knowledge so the ccs have to use the translator feature a lot more now or actually dive into learning a language completely from scratch (ie starting with the korean alphabet system for example)

[anyonghalimaw]

They dont even know about kung fu-san

[bellaroles]

Yu Ziyou's transformation from a very polite, nice mannered, upright gentleman in his teenage years to this unpredictable irritable and sometimes outright crazy adult is just so sad. Well, when he suddenly realized that one of his foundations in life is all a lie, then why should he care about anyone's opinions of him anymore. I don't know if it was half an act to get the enemies' attention off him or really the result of a major nervous breakdown or the side effect of that toxin he's been intentionally ingesting himself. It's sad he just didn't trust no one anymore.

Also the premise of whether once there was and wasn't a connection between Zhong Wan and himself in the past, Zhong Wan using false rumours of their romance as a shield for his adopted family was very interesting. Off to an ambiguous starts lol. I was expecting Yu Ziyou to be angry about it but his reaction really surprised me. Still he didn't trust Zhong Wan nor did Zhong Wan him. Watching them planning and scheming separately but with the same result in mind then slowly learning to trust each other is so interesting. I may not remember it clearly but I was so happy when they finally joined forces to work together and take their enemies down.

[absolutebl]

So I know you've talked about the use of Hia but have you gone into why there's a specific honourfic for men of Chinese decent? Is there any reason behind it? Is there a female counterpart?

(there's a throw away line in Moonlight Chicken about "old Chinese families" or some such which got me thinking maybe there's a whole cultural Thing I'm missing there.).

(I realise I could probably google this but it's midnight and I'm trying to avoid falling into a research rabbit hole :P. Instead I pass it on to you.)

Yes, jae (sounds like jay) is the female counterpart.

Also used in the queer community by/on/between gay men and often translated as sis.

I talked about hia a few times.

Why is there a Chinese honorific in Thai?

Well it has to do with the history of Thailand and China interweaving, invasions, occupations, and the huge Chinese population that married and integrated into the community carrying with a language, - as is often the case in most parts of the world. One of my favorite Thai dishes, Kao Soi, owes so much to it's Chinese origin that it's usually served with chopsticks.

There seems to be a particularly strong connection between large Chinese families and the high income merchant class in the past. Although it persists to this day, the actor White (GMMTV actor & lead in Love Sick) comes from one of these families.

Actually, you can watch To Sir, With Love for some of this history. It's a historical BL about rival high merchant class families of Chinese descent. Although I am not sure how accurate it is to the time periood.

There are tons of other Chinese words and terms in Thai as well. For example, mae song AKA the verb for "to send/escort" often used in BL for "I'll drive you home" or "I'll take you home" appears to have a Chinese origin.

[paradoxspaceheater]

she’s onto you bro

(chinese dub version/japanese dub version)

[malepresentingleg]

I need someone to help me understand what Teh calls Hoon in I Told Sunset About You because it's driving me INSANE!

In Wikipedia it says "Ko Hoon" but I couldn't find its meaning. I thought it might be "Goh" which might mean Hoon is Teh's father's sister's son? But he seems to be his actual brother (from the first episode at least).

So why doesn't Teh call him Phi or Hia??

[ravenwolfie97]

okay i Finally feel like i have the time and energy to get back to genshin

it’s a small thing early on in the tcg grand prix thing but i thought it was interesting

so when kaeya greets charlotte, he says “enchantée”

which is initially in line with him being a smooth talking kind of guy

but since charlotte is from fontaine, which is mostly based on france, he’s probably just greeting her in her national language, which is really thoughtful and respectful of him

i just thought that was neat :0

[chuluoyi]

what i don't understand is why caleb HAS to be a LI :( like it will make fans riot because his haters are there from the very beginning because he is branded as "brother"... paper games can do better by releasing brand new LI like sylus or smth

from a year i’ve been in this platform, i’ve learned that every fictional character, apparently and surprisingly, has haters :)

are you a fan of korean wave culture? if you still don’t understand what 哥哥 gege means, then it’s the literal chinese counterpart of korean’s 오빠 oppa. international fans have come to accept the word “oppa” as normal and it’s pretty harmless, right? then to put it very simply, the same case also applies with “gege” so personally, i don’t see much problem with him being a LI