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soo-won · 2 months ago

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Hi Al! I'm not sure I have much positivity to share exactly but I still want to try to like? maybe give another kind of perspective that helps process things with more peace and acceptance?

very long post under the cut sorry..., but there is too much to say about Yona and the themes of the story!

To begin with, I don't think this scene says anything more than what we already discussed at length after chapter 257, it only confirms it even more, but this is really a time paradox huh. Hiryuu considered stopping things in his time, Hiryuu didn't throw his sword away, Hiryuu could have done everything Yona has done now too. But he didn't, because Yona was there and told him not to. Like...I don't think Hiryuu literally made Yona exists when wishing to live longer, she had to already be existing in the future for it to happen, so it's more that their soul connected through time and space in the one moment their heart called for the same. It doesn't make sense logically in term of timeline and cause/consequence because we deal with the divine and souls I'd say.

But I don't think Hiryuu had trouble reconciling with loss really? Yona definitely does, but Hiryuu wasn't really trying to like reunite with the dragons again himself. He left that to Yona. What caused him anguish is the idea of dying before freeing the dragons and especially Zeno. His wish to live longer is not so different from Suwon's, it's out of not wanting to leave things unaccomplished. To me what the gods say in chapter 264 imply that first of all they let the dragon warriors go on even having no idea whether Hiryuu would come back at all and when, and also that even if he did come back to them, they would have still not put an end to it because they just don't care. Like without Yona asking like she did they would have let the dragons die and be born again and kept Zeno immortal too. Even now I'm still not convinced they made Zeno mortal again, like isn't that something only the dragon in his blood can decide? And we've only seen 3 dragon gods out of 4 in ch264 so hm. However Hiryuu the individual is very much over and I think he was aware of it and accepted it. Again I swear I can't tell if Hiryuu realized Yona was from 2000 years in his future, but whatever he thought, he accepted to let her deal with everything after him and it means exactly that, we're after him. Hiryuu the person is no more. It is only speculations, but if Hiryuu decided to not return to heavens even after death, I'd say it's because as a soul without any vessel he maybe wouldn't have had any mean of action? But honestly what would have happened to Hiryuu's soul is complete mystery so I just don't know tbh, it's something that feels a bit pointless to theorize over for now.

But this chapter also implies Yona didn't really process in ch257 that what she was doing is dooming 2000 years of generations of dragons. She was in the middle of a quest to retrieve her friends, in that quest she was brought in that past where she stopped them from being completely erased from existence as they are now, and then chased after them again with a new resolve. Yona has a very finite goal in this arc: she wants to see her friends again. She wants to save them. She doesn't think about saving the world at all right now. That glimpse into the past was only that to her, her present is what drives her. It's not that she really doesn't care about the dragons' sufferings, it's that from her POV, it already all happened and she wants to make things different now. She had the power to make things different before we agree, but what she's doing now is trying to argue that she doesn't want the gods nor Hiryuu/her to have that power at all over the dragons or anyone to begin with. She throws away the sword, symbol of power over life and death, the one that has been teased since the prologue of the story that we thought was a flashforward to the ending...And Yona rejects it all. She's not being Hiryuu at all here I think. She's fully Yona. She's not some hero trying to restore the world from darkness like a hero of legend, she only follows her heart, and it's Suwon having that goal right now. She's not a King descending from the Heavens to make or protect a country like Hiryuu, the only thing Yona has ever done and is doing here is trying to help the people that she knows are in need, and here especially because she knows only her can do it. Of course, as the chagol arc developed she can see beyond her circle of close friends and she wants to find a way to end wars too etc...But the way she goes at everything is the same. In this chapter she realizes that she really made the dragons wait forever and all that suffering has to end here and now. She says it, she can't let them suffer any longer.

And in a way it's a nice twist to what the narrative hinted at until now. Many in the past (in universe and among us readers) thought that Yona is here now to save the whole country from some kind of "darkness" like Hiryuu in his time (supposedly), but that's not it. Sure, Yona did influence, change and help many people in her journey for real, but she finally found the meaning of her existence as Hiryuu's reincarnation: like Taejun said long ago, it is far more humbler or what we can call "selfish". The meaning of being reborn with the red dragon's soul is to save the dragons, not the world. The world doesn't need the gods after all, it needs the power of people. And driven all along by that simple prayer without even being aware of it, she indirectly moved and inspired others to protect the country and its people themselves. This is a bit different from Hiryuu too. Maybe he had similar feelings, but he failed to accomplish any of that in the end. He made the people depend on him, he saved them, but once he died they were lost and could not find the will and power to do anything but to cling on his symbol and depend on the skies again. In the end, he couldn't truly save and protect anyone in a lasting way. He himself points it out in Zeno's flashback arc actually: No matter what he does, war never ends. Maybe by then he had realized that his existence on Earth is actually pretty pointless and meaningless, that he can't give humans eternal peace. That it was arrogant of him to think he could just come and do that.

So I agree with you on this, and the story hasn't adressed this, but...Hiryuu loved humans I truly think so, but he still went at it like a god. Like? He became their King. He led people to wars. He was still very much above them. He accepted everything that made him special in the human world, he chose for them, then died and left everything behind. He should have died if not for the sword the Gods gave him and the Dragon Warriors. (By the way, the fact they didn't let him be killed is interesting? Like Hiryuu dying technically should made him come back to them sooner, yet they went out of their way to protect him like they did. Curious.) This wasn't explored at all for now but honestly I'm not surprised since Hiryuu was still new at this whole humanity thing wasn't he? That'd make sense to me that he either felt pressure to still be a special existence as a human and/or that he didn't know any other way to "help" them. He's more human than the other gods that hate anyone against them and love anyone worshipping them, but loving every humans whether they betray him or not without any conflict (as far as we know, like, we've never seen him be upset, have we?) is still pretty arrogant of Hiryuu. Yona is different because she was born human. She doesn't love and feel for everyone unconditionally and by nature. She hates and feels upset by others, she feels conflicted, she has to make the active effort to learn and understand others better, even those she doesn't like. Like what Hak said about Suwon (which was pretty unaccurate), loving everyone is the same as loving no one. Hiryuu surely developed deeper, more genuine feelings for the dragons (and I'd hope his wife and children too?), but it was already too late.

Another point is I believe what Suwon and Hak discuss in chapter 262 can apply here too. Suwon and Hak have no power to actually redo anything over, so when they talk about it it's only as a what if scenario, but the conclusion is that rather than changing or "correcting" the past by receving punishment, Suwon should rather find a better way next time in their life /now/, moving forward. And I fully agree with that. First because he didn't do anything wrong he should regret <3 But also because admitting that the way things happened was painful to him and Yona and Hak and that's the real tragedy of that night, then yeah, I want to wish for a way for Suwon to accomplish his ambitions without having to discard his feelings too.

But even if they had the power to go back in time and despite being fully aware of the suffering he caused to some, Suwon has no regrets, and yeah of course he doesn't! I wouldn't want him to! That'd be like rejecting all he accomplished and lived for and the people he helped and saved and worked with etc etc...It might have been painful and unfair at times but that's the only life he has. He wouldn't change a thing but he can grow and learn and use his past experiences to do better. So...I feel like the story applies that same logic to Yona and the dragons. Accepting to let Hiryuu put an end to the dragon warriors in the past is like accepting to reject all her life since she met them if not before, and the time she lived with them, and what they felt and accomplished together, and how she changed and could learn to stand on her own thanks to their help etc...They mean all that to her. And no matter how miserable the lives of the previous dragons were, it doesn't feel right to erase that completely either, right? They didn't deserve any of that but erasing this history and these existences doesn't do them justice imo. If there was a way to make all the past generations have fulfilling happy life without sacrificing the present that'd be amazing but then it'd feel like nothing truly matters too. Admitting we could ask for the present dragons' opinion, Zeno aside, I'd be surprised if they said they want that too. They're characters that /would be made/ to think that, sure, but that wouldn't be out of character, would it? The fact Yona decides for them still is a problem, that's true, but that's different from saying Yona made the wrong choice. As we discussed it's indeed also hard to not see things from the POV of the past, from Zeno's POV, from the hundreds of dragons who waited and suffered all their life in vain. But we're in a time paradox and we can only turn in circle about this like. Yeah that's terrible for all the dragons of the past and Zeno, but the other choice would likewise be terrible for the present dragons and everyone now, but then again it's terrible for the past dragons...etc etc...there's no end to it.

What actually bothers me more in this chapter is how easily Yona chooses to put an end to the dragons' powers in their stead. Like, the one thing people blamed Zeno for was how he took away their agency, but Yona does very much that again here. Sure it's kinda the only way to possibly free them AND keep them alive, and it's really a case of "what Yona thinks shouldn't matter bc it should be about what /they/ think, but alas to the gods Yona's opinion matters more so that's how it is" but that still leaves a bad taste in my mouth that it will supposedly be resolved like that for them. I wish things were executed in a way that showed them consent to it? like regaining some consciousness or being able to communicate with her in some way? or even hint at wishing for something of the like before? I...don't have any hope they will resent Yona for it at all since they'd probably be made more busy worrying for her next etc but I can only pray the story will dare to take some little time for them to process the loss of their powers and what does that make them now, and what can they do to help from now on etc. But wait and see.

So to me the core of the problem is not Yona's decision, it's Yona's writing overall. What we yearn for is Yona to be challenged in her beliefs. To be wrong. To fail. To be held accountables for her mistakes and grow from them. For the story to truly own the ways Yona is indeed not perfect, instead of making her not perfect but still framing it like she is. To me the solution to this isn't for her to kill Zeno with that sword or anything of the like at all. I want Yona to be wrong but not about everything and not about her feeling everyone deserves a better ending. I want akayona to reach its happy ending, I want Zeno to either be able to die happy with no such tragic conditions or either to be allowed to live a normal human lifespan from now on, I want the dragons to live as normal humans, I want the Hiryuu descendants to be saved and live long life too. But I want to see Yona struggle to achieve these. And by struggle I don't mean just the story throwing things at her that she has no responsibility over, I mean...doubting herself, falling, failing, correcting herself, learning from others and her own mistakes and not only the ones she made before the coup.

But akayona has carried this flaw since the end of the Awa arc lowkey, the spotlight is never on Yona admiring and learning from others (but Hak I guess...), it's always others admiring her and learning from her. Truthfully, I don't think that's true, and definitely she learns from others like Kouren, Meinyan, Suwon, Keishuk even lol but that's only something you can infer from what happens, whereas what is highlighted is always how admirable, noble and good and loved she is. I don't think this was much a problem before the Xing arc, as what happened in the Fire/Water tribe arcs compensated the beginning of this terrible trend for Yona's writing, but I'd say starting Xing (which I still believe is an arc with excellent character moments), every villain/antagonist only existed so Yona and the character she had more "complex" and interesting interactions with and that challenged her, could work together against a common enemy and resolve the lazy way all conflicts that existed between them. Like,, Gobi was just that for Yona and Kouren to me. Then Chagol for Yona and Meinyan (even if admittedly Chagol had more going on than Gobi lol), and now the gods for Yona and Zeno. If you zoom in, it's not just that, and I believe there is still good to be taken from how things turned out but...overall I don't think this serves Yona's character development in a way I'd find really meaningful. I assume it's this way exactly to convey the idea that all these characters are all driven by the will to protect something, and in different circumstances (like against a stupid common enemy) they realize they're not so different and are not "bad" people but I can't help but feel unsatisfied with how things are resolved everytime. She grows still but it's just like...she gains more experience and knowledge. There's nothing to resolve. It's not inherently a bad thing but it fails to move me like it did at the beginning and imo it can be a burden for the story akayona is telling.

Like I said, her goal in this arc is to save her friends but...there's nothing special or novel in that. This happened many times before. Of course she's going to save her friends. Like she always did. I fail to see anything meaningful in the new things Yona say or do now because I'm just "yeah that's nice, but it's not like she struggled with that before"(before meaning everything after the awa arc). It's so hard to feel it for me, because it feels like a given. And for a final arc I find this anticlimatic. Even now, I did want for Yona to be stuck in Heavens with the gods, but I hoped it would be a bit more the result of her own flaws than the gods 100% forcing her and her simply not realizing this would happen I guess? In a way you could call the current development a struggle, but you know, we have never seen Yona struggling defying the gods before like. She always confronted people with higher authority and/or more power than her. Kumji, Hiyou, Chagol. Sure these people have more and more power and she got hurt confronting them but it's not like Yona emotionally struggled against them the way she did with Suwon in the past, where you can clearly see her progress everytime she faces him and the people around him again. The only other place I see real progress is in her relationship with Hak like how she can more easily says she loves him now, or being able to protect him like she always wanted etc. Which is a shame because the development of these two (and more especially Hak I painfully have to admit) can actually be seen through their interactions with far more characters.

So now this is the part I make it a bit about Suwon I'm sorry... Because I can't agree with what I've read in the notes of your post about him. You did not say these things yourself but I still want to give my two cents on this as someone that loves him and often feels upset for him because of what akayona throws at him.

Things changed, god knows how much I hated it in the castle and chagol arcs pretty much for the reasons i listed just above, but despite everything I truly believe Suwon's very existence will always challenge Yona (just like she challenges his) and that it still does now. That again Suwon highlights Yona's emotional development well too (again, it's mutual). And that at least with him, nothing is resolved easily. Unlike with other characters, there was never anything more challenging for them but to work together against a common enemy. Being kinda stuck together in the Chagol arc only made things infinitely more complicated and painful and conflictual than they already were. The way it presented it was disconcerting to say the least, and I almost dropped akayona for real from it, but with them it never was as easy as "oh this person saved/helped me now I love them and I will do anything to help in return!", like, from both sides. And it's because even after chapter 221/224 and the Chagol arc I could tell Suwon would not simply end like Kouren or Meinyan or anyone Yona helped before in the narrative that I finally started to breathe slightly more easily. It can be similar in some ways, but I still see a lot more nuances with him than previous examples. And it's still not fully resolved between them. And Yona and Hak had to change their stance irt Suwon and the people around him continuously from the beginning to now too. (Yona moved me the most recently when she found Hyuri in this dark alleyway when she was in the middle of running after Zeno, stopped and sat at his level, and could talk about Suwon from the past like the child he was like no one did before, and that she could see Hyuri not as a crazy violent murderer like Hak and Mundok did in that same chapter, but the man watching over Suwon and protecting him, someone that Suwon needs by his side. That she can say she wants Suwon to live, and this time it doesnt feel like it's only about "dying selfishly on her" but simply the feeling of wanting him to be there, even if not part of her life, and that she could be grateful to Hyuri and thank him for protecting her friends...that's all immensely meaningful imo! Even if nghh Hyuri's monologue in response is siighhh...come on. (gestures) akayona.)

It's so damn slow with them, and Hak is still angry and will always have grips even if they reached a point they can help each other more honestly now, and Yona will never forgive Suwon, and Suwon will never regret what he did nor apologize for it. And Suwon still carries his own convictions and ideology that to this day still go at odds with Yona and Hak. I'm not saying Suwon is immune to akayona's problems at all, I'm painfully aware he isn't, but I still believe his existence in the story now has a lot of meaning and brings a lot of nuance and food to ponder more about everything else. And it's not a bad thing that Suwon accepts them more like...that feels like the natural progression. Of course they wouldn't always stay super distant and confrontional and they would slowly work together closer and closer as they all influence each other, grow, and understand each other better. We as readers might want for Suwon to forever act like Yona and Hak aren't special and important because yeah it's cathartic but...Suwon has never been like that. They were always special to him, from chapter 1. Suwon is his own character, not just a proxy for people tired of (gestures) the AnY narrative that makes everything about Yona and Hak. The same way the shadows can't accept how things changed and force Suwon to be what he's not. Of course, it doesn't change how irritating it is that yeah everyone sides with YonaHak eventually and tend to prioritize them over what they cared about before or themselves, like they're pawns more than characters, and of course Suwon isn't real and was purposely written this way and recently I feel so pained because I so wish it let other characters play a role in his development...but I'd say that tbh if Yona and Hak have to be special to someone I'm fine if it's Suwon. The way he chose the country over them is still so meaningful and admirable. Yona herself said she understood, Hak recently acknowledged that fact even if he could never do it himself. But it's at the same time true that it hurt him to kill his own feelings because of this ideology, and even more so if that makes him accept death so easily. Readers might do that at lot, but I genuinely dont think the manga actually judges if Suwon was right or wrong. It's not about that. It focuses on the characters' conflicting feelings in changing circumstances. As much as I think akayona has a problem with the way it frames things, Suwon's side included, it paradoxically still let a lot of nuances be. It often resolves things in a lazy, infuriating stupid way, yet it's not as bad it feels like either? If it makes sense. Once again it's not like Suwon throws away all his convictions for them! And that's part of the still on going tension and conflict! The execution stings half of the time I can't pretend otherwise but... No matter what I don't want to close my eyes to what is definitely there I guess.

Also, the fate of Hiryuu descendants weren't mentioned at all yet. I don't think it's a problem I think it will be adressed when the time comes. I don't want to wish on a star but my two cents now are: Yona freed the dragons from what tied them to the divine, and she pretty much used her divine authority to do so, but she didn't realize how herself is bound to the divine and probably needs to cut that tie as well. And I suspect that if there is a way for Yona to lose all connection to Hiryuu and be saved, then it will be the exact same key to free Hiryuu's descendants. And Suwon is on his way to the mausoleum, and Suwon famously hates Hiryuu and sees him as useless...Like if there's someone that is damn annoyed whenever Yona is perceived and treated like Hiryuu and by the crimson illness it's Suwon, so...wait and see... I'm sure Hak will have some major role as well but I don't like much when Hak has a role I don't really care about that for now, but recently I appreciate the way he's written so! (Like...flawed and struggling and having inner conflicts that he grows from and stuff...give that back to yona omfg).

In the end I think Yona's character is still meaningful in many ways. She doesn't move me like before, and it's painful to think she is not written like I'd want her to, in a way I can connect with again, but she is amazing to analyze and break down like that and she is the root of many fascinating questions. Like yes that's cool the narrative revolves around the feelings and experience of this girl in a male dominated world, i like the different layers of her identity as a normal girl, a princess and god reincarnated, it's cool it's about her gaining agency and power and that the male characters are here to support her, it's cool she hates that it's at the price of others losing that agency and she wants everyone to be there and free. It's beautiful that she always feels so grateful of people for helping her and hugs them and thanks them everytime. It's amazing that she's the kind of character to never give up, but also acknowledges she wouldn't have been able to without people being here for her first. I like how she cares for people, the "discarded" ones like she does. How even if she's ignorant and doesn't understand everyone's feelings and experience at first, she constantly tries to. I love that when meeting Zeno, believing that he had no power that could "protect" her like the others, she was glad to meet him only for his warmth and because she felt happy with him. I'm glad when she told Kija, that was always convinced he was born to protect Hiryuu, that she wants him with her even now that he feels like a burden. That she told them that them dying like that because it's their fate and duty is not okay again and upsets her, that she's grateful for Kija just being there even if he can't fight. I like that she wants to break all cycles and refuses the unfair destiny imposed to the people around her. She loves her friends, she loves people, despite the way she can be inconsiderate/insensitive/unfair too, which is important to point out of course. It's because it's not black and white that it's so hard.

There are countless things to say about her and she is more than either the perfect badass 10/10 queen everyone praise no matter what she does or the terrible person that doesn't truly care about anyone but herself and treats everyone like shit. I don't think she's shallow like that, one way or another. I do think the way people despict her in fandom space often is though, but I'm not interested in that Yona at all. I love how she stays so true to her feelings no matter what, I love that selfishness of her in the good and bad. I don't agree and I don't like when she says Suwon is selfish in chapter 252, but I don't mind that she, Yona with her very unique and personal experience and story, thinks that. Akatsuki no Yona is about people's heart and feelings clashing with reason and objectivity, and through Yona it chooses to show us things we can only see from her side of things. Yona herself is struggling with that. She wants to help her people as Kouka's princess, but she feels conflicted between her duties as a princess and wanting to save her friends. It felt easy to resolve it by Suwon avoiding her the struggle longer and just letting her do what she wants, but I think it did it this way precisely because the manga doesn't want to preach about what would be "right" here. There is no answer. There are only people doing their best to tweak things to find compromises. Suwon gave her the opportunity to follow her heart because "objectively it's better if it's yona dealing with this", and Yona uses it fully. Yet she still intends to come back too. A compromise again.

So what always bothered me is not Yona herself but how everything surrounding her is framed. Likee the narrative makes a ton about her when I don't think it's needed at all and kinda goes against the point. That it sides with her is definitely intended and meaningful in its own right, but I thought it was doing it much better before and I prefered when it was humbler about her and I felt like it was siding with more POV and characters but her (and Hak). So...she's not that protagonist I identify myself much with anymore (and the story itself kinda makes yona and hak's development something that we can only be a witness of outside of their head now, rather than following all the thought processes that make them grow from inside and their POV) but no matter how you process your feelings for akatsuki no yona in the end, keep being disillusioned, it's good! Keep being disillusioned about her and akayona as a whole again and again, and be disillusioned of your previous disillusions because that's the way to see it truly for what it is the most. Nothing erase the way akayona and yona's character are flawed, so there is no need to erase what is definitely there and good about it. Take all the good and bad and how they coexist. I just find it painful to hate everything so much that it makes doubt everything and blind to what is simply there so I don't want it to happen to you :').

Akayona is a mess like that, it's terribly flawed but it's also good in so many aspects and that's what makes it so damn complicated and frustrating! But also extremely interesting, and I think it's possible to appreciate it this way. So best wishes to you Al!! I love your akatsuki no yona writings and I'll be sad to see you stop and fall into that painful spiral, but it's also fine to take distances or drop it completely depending on what feels the best for you. I'll always love to discuss about all of this with you if you want!!

Critique ahead, read at your own discretion.

Am I understanding this correctly? Because of Hiryuu’s selfish wish to have more time on Earth, Yona was created, thus their soul did not return to the heavens to be with the other dragon gods. As a consequence hundreds of humans were damned with the dragon powers and short lifespans. If Hiryuu had accepted his own death as a natural course of life as a human and went back to the heavens then all of this could’ve been avoided. But it seems both he and Yona have trouble reconciling with loss. They’d curse strangers if it meant having more time with their loved ones. How is this not viewed as corrupt? Their resolve is painted as this heartwarming thing - that they’d bend reality if it led to the safety of those they care about. But what about everyone else? The world isn’t comprised only of those dear to your heart. They say Hiryuu loved humans but the more I examine his actions it seems he simply wanted control over them.

I want to love this manga, I have loved this manga, for many years. It was amazing seeing Yona’s growth and getting to know all the characters. Soo-Won, Shin-Ah, Zeno, and (earlier chapters) Yona will always have a special place in my heart. But the way the themes are being developed leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Idk, if anyone has some positivity to share about how things are progressing please feel free to do so, because at this point I’m disillusioned with YOTD.

#akayona #lumen rants #sorryyy I hope this is intelligible and not annoying...#also as a RGU lover i understand you feelings all too well like #Utena also inspires and influences others just by being herself and trying to save Anthy #But it adresses how she's flawed and wrong about things until the very end #Like her very last line ough..#RGU is so good !! Utena is so good!!#So I prefer how it does things over akayona but yeah #I hope I don't sound like you shouldn't be frustrated or upset at all because no. Please be. It's good.#Yona #Suwon #Hak #Zeno #Hiryuu

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