#catullus 64

[inspofromancientworld]

The Building of the Argo and its Ancient Origins

By Schorle - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=7027254

Gaius Valerius Catullus, more commonly known as Catullus was a Roman poet who lived from 84-54 BCE. In his short life, he wrote 113 poems, many of which are still read today. He was born in Verona to a prominent family, so much so that his father entertained Julius Caesar when he was the proconsul. They also had a villa near modern day Trivoli, near a resort there. His status allowed him to meet many other poets and orators and he dedicated and wrote poems about them. He was even able to lampoon Julius Caesar and was invited to a dinner with Caesar the day he apologized. He wrote several poems about a woman he called 'Lesbia' (a nod to Sappho) who had 'no fewer than five lovers in addition to Catullus'. It is thought that the woman Lesbia was based on was Clodia Metelli, whose husband died under mysterious circumstances in 59 BCE. Though Catullus burned with passion for Clodia, she was indifferent to him. His response to this can be found in his poems, from devout passion to bitter scorn. He spent a year, from summer 57 BCE to 56 BCE on the staff for Gaius Memmius at Bithynia. There are also poems that speak of a boy Juventius, not named, but someone he likely knew in his childhood and went to Rome with him. His poems also reflect his ongoing relationship with whomever Juventius was meant to be.

Catullus' writings style was influenced by Greek poets such as Callimachus and Homer, as well as Sappho. He's also part of a group that are considered 'moderns' or 'new poets' because they sought to create a new type of poetry that reflected their contemporary time, focused on personal and intimate themes rather than heroes and gods, and when there is focus on the actions of heroes and gods, the focus tends toward the personalities rather than the actions.

By Unknown author - Scanné de Coureurs des mers, Poivre d'Arvor., Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=3510397

Jason, leader of the Argonauts, was the husband to the sorceress Medea, granddaughter to Helios, the Greek sungod, rightful king of Iolcos. and great-grandson of Poseidon. His father's half-brother wants to take over Thessaly, which pushes the newborn Jason into hiding to be raised by the centaur Chiron, with his mother claiming to have had an affair with Chiron the whole time. His uncle goes to an oracle, who tells him to watch out for the one-sandaled man. Years later, Jason shows up to royal games wearing a single sandal after having lost one helping Hera (wearing an old woman's guise) across a river. Jason's uncle, thinking he was clever, said, 'To take my throne, which you shall, you must go on a quest to find the Golden Fleece.' Jason accepts and assembles a bunch of heroes, including Heracles, Orpheus, and Argus. They build and sail the boat.

By Sebastiano Ricci - The Yorck Project (2002) 10.000 Meisterwerke der Malerei (DVD-ROM), distributed by DIRECTMEDIA Publishing GmbH. ISBN: 3936122202., Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=158307

The Building of the Argo is part of Catullus 64, which is a 'little epic' and Catullus' longest poem. Though the poem purports to be about the parents of Achilles being married, a lot of the poem is about Theseus deserting Ariadne. In the original myth, Theseus never looked at Ariadne, but in the poem there is the implication that they interact, were even in love and how Ariadne even turned to Bacchus in her pain. The poem as a whole is a reflection on better times, when gods came to weddings, as it was written during the Roman Civil war.

The portion that details the building of the Argo starts '[w]hen Argos' sons, the golden fleece to gain/That hung in Colchis, dared the briny main'. The '[f]air Amphitrite's [goddess of the sea, consort to Poseidon] crystal bosom taught/To bear the work her magic hands wrought:/Scares its swift prow through the cleaved ocean flew'. Those on the Argo '[d]aily the enormous structure they beheld,/To mortal eeyes their naked frames revealed', referring to the structure of not only the Argo, but also the sea itself, so that eventually, 'full to view, emerging from the flood,/Their swelling breasts and shapes half-human stood.'

The Building of the Argo can be found here. The entire of Catullus 64 can be found here.

[ceaseless-watchers-special-girl]

Not to obliterate any consistency my blog has but like. Can I talk about Catullus for a hot sec

No one who follows me is under any obligation to read this whatsoever. It's rambling I just have a lot of feelings ok

Catullus 64, man. This fucking poem. I fell in love with it literally before I even read it — I got part of it printed onto a fucking blanket so I can curl up underneath this poem and be all wrapped up in it.

Today, we read a section where he describes Bacchus coming to find Ariadne after she's been abandoned on Naxos. Catullus describes him as 'te quaerens, Ariadna' (seeking you, Ariadne). Now I could get into everything my Latin teacher said about how seeking is often used to mean love, the link it has to Sappho SAPPHO LOVE OF MY LIFE MARRY ME PLS but that's not what I've been thinking about for the entire day.

"You, Ariadne". Let's think about that for a second. Catullus isn't writing direct speech anymore, it's supposed to be the omniscient narrator talking. Who tf is talking to Ariadne here? Narrators are not supposed to talk to the characters they speak about.

But here, he does. He can't help himself. He calls out to Ariadne, he is overwhelmed by the sorrow that consumes her because Theseus has left her SON OF A BITCH THESEUS HOW COULD YOU FUCKING ROT IN HELL and Catullus can't stop himself from calling out to her, trying to tell her that someone is coming for her, that she is not being left to die. He is so moved by the plight he has written for her that he calls out to her as if she were there with him, as if he could console her.

Catullus is writing in the style of an epic. Narrators of epics only call out to heroes at moments of intense emotion. Wanna know the example I was given that absolutely crushed me? Patroclus. In the Iliad, Homer calls out to Patroclus during his final fight before his death. I know you bitches who've read the Song of Achilles find that devastating.

Just. Fucking. Authors so connected to their characters that they forget they're narrating for a second. They let their own voice slip into the narrative, a desperate cry to let the characters know they're not alone. To praise them, to console them, to say I know you and I love you and I am so, so sorry.

And I know Catullus didn't forget shit. I know he wrote that in on purpose. But fuck, it hits hard.

[femcharlemagne]

about a man looking at a dog on the subway

from my hiding places, i can’t say

what shies away behind that gaze.

i don’t get people

and i don’t get dogs.

i await the night and empty streets

to finally breath in the stars above.

or at least i thought

that after a life like this,

although ongoing still,

atop a column

crosslegged,

within my dark and humid

hermit cave,

my eyes had now gone

all pale and soft,

those of a salamander

or a hare,

unknown to most -

a beast that stalks

the mountain depths,

that scares

with its yellow

indecipherable stare.

my sight, however

is still working

and my limbs still bend

to sit down, to eat

and to rejoice,

in case a friend gets married.

i don’t get people

and i don’t get dogs:

but,

this is true up to the point

where it’s impossible to

fully grasp

anything at all.

it’s incomplete,

something between

the extremes of zero and

one.

i stare at you, too,

curious, hands in my lap

and a slight fear, mixed

with the desire

to touch you.

edl, 16/9/23

[nicandros]

Struck with thoughts and ideas for craft projects i don't have the skill to see through

[splendidemendax]

hey is your friend on bandcamp or similar? i'd like to buy a copy of this album because i desperately need to eat "black mark (ariadne)" whole

New Greek Myth EP!

My friend from grad school just released her first EP, based on Greek and Roman mythography! She's been working on this for a long time and I'm so excited for people to be able to hear the finished product!

[fluentisonus]

okay okay but the thing with ariadne & the minotaur I'm thinking about is like. the minotaur is inside the labyrinth and she's outside of it. she doesn't see the minotaur and he doesn't see her but probably they both know each other exist. maybe they both wonder about each other. so what's making me chew on glass is that she sends theseus in, to a brother whose face she barely knows but still thinks about, and he kills him and the minotaur's gone, just like that, without her ever seeing him again, and just like that she's brotherless. And Then. thinking about This Line from ariadne's lament in catullus 64:

respersum iuuenem fraterna caede secuta

("following a young man spattered with my brother's blood")

which like. yes it's metaphorical but also thinking that possibly all she ever saw again was theseus walking out of the labyrinth dripping in her brother's blood. what it must be like to have a brother one moment and then not have anything of a brother except what's spattered across the face of a man who she's given everything up for and she's now supposed to kiss. aughhgbnghn

[tylermileslockett]

Theseus #6 (The Abandonment of Ariadne)

Having succeeded in his mission to slay the Minotaur, breaking King Minos demand for yearly sacrifices of Athenian tributes, Theseus flees Crete with the Princess Ariadne in the cover of night. A terrible storm forces them to stop on the Island of Dia (Nexos), where they find rest and respite in the safety and warmth of each other’s arms. But that night, Dionysus visits Theseus in a dream, threatening death if he does not abandon the princess, for Dionysus has also fallen in love with her. With a heavy heart, Theseus sneaks away in the night and puts out to sea, leaving her behind. Dionysus takes Ariadne as his wife, eventually bringing her to Olympus, making her immortal, and begetting many children with her.

there are many different versions told of princess Ariadne’s fate. According to the cryptic passage in Homer’s Odyssey, on the island of Naxos, she was slain by Artemis with Dionysus as witness; suggesting a blasphemous act of lust within the god’s sacred grove (mirroring Ovid’s later ending for the Atalanta myth).  Plutarch, in his Life of Theseus chapter from his work “Parallel lives,” recounts an array of variations; from her hanging herself upon abandonment, to her settling down with a Dionysian priest. There’s even a version that tells of Ariadne being turned to stone by Perseus! Ovid says that Dionysus set Ariadne’s jeweled Cretan crown up into the night sky, becoming the constellation “Corona Borealis.”

Another fascinating version is the Roman poet Catullus’ “Poem 64”, which has a furious Ariadne calling on goddesses to curse Theseus for abandoning her, which results in the many tragedies that follow in the hero’s life.

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[girlcaelius]

gestures expansively. does this make any sense

alcibiades i / catullus 51 / the mirror of the self, shadi barscht / catullus 58 / collective violence and sacrifice in shakespeare’s julius caesar, rené girard / catullus 77 / cicero, the megalenses and the defence of caelius / catullus 64 / political bedfellows: tullia, dolabella and caelius / catullus 5 / introduction to the pro caelio, r g austin / misc (will update once i have found)

[ovidianodes]

Catullus truly understood men 😔 (Catullus 64, Daisy Dunn)

[alittlegreekreader]

the traditional Harkins-esque "auto-allegory" reading of cat. 63 & 64 doesn't really hold up imo in the sense that i don't think these poems can be read as direct parallels to catullus' relationship with lesbia specifically. but catullus does show a preoccupation with questions of familial obligation and family destruction in both 63 & 64 - ariadne calls the minotaur her germanus, her full brother (which he is not, biologically), attis calls their homeland patria mei creatrix, patria mea genetrix, & likens their relationship to it as that of a slave to their master, both express a sense that they have failed to fulfil their obligations to/been the means of destroying their families - and in his poems to his brother. his family's whole house is buried with his brother; he goes to perform the funeral rites for his brother because he 'owes' it to him; most interestingly in terms of dialogue with 63 & 64, he seems to accept responsibility for his brother's death in 68 with the protesilaus & laodamia comparison. it seems to me that there absolutely is a correspondence with catullus' preoccupations elsewhere in the collection in both these poems it's just...not the one anyone draws out lol.

[enlitment]

Top 5 lines written by Catullus!

Thank you for the ask (and for indulging me!). I may stretch the definition of what can realistically be considered 'a line' a bit, but it's for the sake of context, I promise!

C 31: Sirmio

O what freedom from care is more joyful/ than when the mind lays down its burden/and weary, back home from foreign toil/ we rest in the bed we longed for?

This one is just incredibly relatable for anyone coming back home from any long trip! It is just as true now as it was more than 2000 years ago.

2: C 99: Stolen Kisses: to Iuventius

you have handed wretched me over to spiteful Love/nor have you ceased to torture me in every way/so that for me that kiss is now changed from ambrosia/to be harsher than harsh hellebore

I've included this line mostly because I love the contrast between ambrosia and hellebore. I also think that there is something powerful and effective about taste metaphors, yet I don't see them used very often. Here, it manages to beautifully illustrate poor Catullus' feelings in this particular situation! (Though obviously, you shouldn't go on kissing people out of the blue. That's kind of on him.)

Poor Catullus, getting rejected by both women and men, left and right

3. Attis

So, rapidly, from sweet dream and free of madness/ Attis recollected his actions in his thoughts/ and saw with a clear heart what and where he had been/ turning again with passionate mind to the sea.

Nothing like the pain of the morning after, am I right?

In all seriousness, all of Attis is amazing. The language (even the translations, I sadly cannot appreciate the original), the imagery, the links to mythology, it's all so beautiful. It's also such a rich area for analysis - I've thought about it a lot, but I'm sure if barely scracthed the surface at this point.

I personally see it as an expression of the fear of emasculation that comes with being deeply obsessed with a female lover (as he was with Lesbia)? I cannot claim any expertise beside having read all of his work and knowing some of the context of his life + the Roman views on masculinity. I've also read a few opinions of people arguing for a possible trans reading, which is incredibly interesting as well.

4. C 9: Back from Spain: To Veranius

You’re back. O happy news for me!/ I’ll see you safe and sound and listen/ to your tales of Spanish places that you’ve done/ and tribes, as is your custom, and/ hang about your neck, and kiss/ your lovely mouth and eyes

I don't know, just something about him expressing such genuine joy about being reunited with his friend seems incredibly sweet. (Also introduces the idea of kissing someone on the eyes which. Um. Seems to be an ongoing thing for Catullus. Sure, you do you.)

5. C 64: Epithalamium for Peleus and Thetis

The Minoan girl goes on gazing at the distance/ with mournful eyes, like the statue of a Bacchante/ gazes, alas, and swells with great waves of sorrow

Again, I just love the whole poem. It is probably my favourite Catullus poem (along with C 50, but they have very different vibes). I find it fascinating that a male poet can empathise so much with the female perspective (which is a bit of an ongoing theme in his poetry). I cannot help but think that he must have personally related to Ariadne's pain, being rejected by his former lover - Lesbia - like she was by Theseus. It would certainly help to explain how he was able to portray her state of mind with such incredible depth and complexity.

I also adore the beauty of the language and the many references to Greek mythology of course.

[trucywright]

I think an Ariadne myth retelling should end like Catullus 64 and Ovid’s Heroides.

Ariadne, abandoned on the island, thinking her story is over. She will die on this solitary island and never even be buried. She’s cursed Theseus and sealed his fate but that’s all she can do.

And then she hears the sounds of Bacchus’ chorus. The sun is rising. She looks up and sees Bacchus walking in the distance. She snatches back her happy ending.

[olderthannetfic]

Seeing others get upset that you (and some other anons) don't like Captive Prince is so funny. It reminds me of how my friends and others generally who like BL are surprised when I say I don't like Yuri on Ice (paper thin main and side characters except Yurio, flimsy motivations [I can deal with this in high school or college-aged characters who are lost or finding themselves, not professional athletes who're almost 30 and competing at the Olympic level. Get a backbone/motivation beyond just some man you want to pick you], poor pacing, poor relationship development, fails as a sports anime, fails as a romance anime) and The Song Of Achilles (also paper thin [defanged main] characters, weird black-and-white anachronistic morals, not transgressive, nonsensical recontextualizing of myths, twee, nearly desecrates Catullus 64, makes the Iliad about boring uwu sad boys). And when they keep arguing in favor of x media I dislike, they're offended when I double down, and my mild dislike becomes stronger. To those, I say "It's not that deep. Lots of people just dislike things that you enjoy. Grow up. Or get better standards. I don't know."

--

[femcharlemagne]

ariadne should have pulled a gone girl on theseus

[ovid]

i think we’ve all wanted to fuck catullus 64. and to be honest a bit of tongue with 68b wouldn’t hurt either

[iliiuan]

Epic Fantasy through the Ages

A Chronology of Story

This is a work in progress, but here is my list as of 6 July 2023. Please feel free to send me additions or corrections. I have focused on epic (works that are long and took a long time to create) and fantasy (works that include an element of magic, the supernatural, or superpowers). Some of the list could be categorized as myth, some as Literature™️, some as science fiction, but beyond these categories are the two main criteria of epic and fantasy. I also don't fully know what all of the ancient to modern works encompass, but that's the fun of read and find out. I probably have added some things that don't properly meet my criteria, and that's fine with me. 🌺

Works by Mesopotamian Bards (3100 BC - 539 BC)

Enumah Elish (Epic of Creation)

Atrahasis (The Flood)

Epic of Gilgamesh

Descent of Ishtar

Epic of Erra

Etana

Adapa

Anzu

Nergel and Ereshkigal

Avesta by Zoroastrian Bards (1500 BC)

Ramayana by Valmiki (750+ BC)

Mahabharata by Vayasa (750+ BC)

The Illiad and the Odyssey by Homer (650+ BC)

Thoegeny; Works and Days by Hesiod (650+ BC)

Popol Vuh (4th century BC)

The Torah and other Jewish stories (4th century BC)

Argonautica by Apollonius of Rhodes (270 BC)

Bellum Punicam by Gnaeus Naevius (200 BC)

Annales by Ennius (170 BC)

De Rerum Natura by Lucretius (50 BC)

Poem 64 by Catullus (50 BC)

The Aenid by Virgil (19 BC)

Metamorphoses by Ovid (2 AD)

Punica by Silius Italicus (50 AD)

Satyrica by Petronius (60 AD)

Pharsalia or Bellum Civile by Lucan (62 AD)

Argonautica by Valerius Flaccus (70 AD)

Thebaid by Statius (90 AD)

The Irish Myth Cycles: Mythological, Ulster, Fenian, and Kings (3rd Century AD)

The Bible and other Christian stories (5th century AD)

Dionysiaca by Nonnus of Panopolis (500 AD)

The Quran and other Muslim stories (7th century AD)

Arabian Nights (7th century AD)

Hildebrandslied and other German heroic lays by Bards (830 AD)

Shahnameh by Ferdowsi (977 or 1010 AD)

Chanson de Roland (1125 AD)

Cantar de Mio Sid (1200 AD)

The Dietrich Cycle (1230 AD)

Poetic Edda and Prose Edda by Snorri Sturluson and others (1270 AD)

Beowulf by Old English Bards (11th century AD)

Nibelungenlied by Middle High German Bards (1200)

Amadís de Gaula (13th century AD)

The Divine Comedy by Dante Alghieri (1308)

Teseida by Bocaccio (1340 AD)

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by Middle English Bards (14th century)

The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer (1392)

Morgante by Luigi Pulci (1483)

Le morte d'Arthur by Thomas Mallory (1485)

Orlando Innamorato by Boiardo (1495)

Orlando Furioso by Ariosto (1516)

Os Lusiadas by Camoes (1572)

Gerusalemme Liberata by Tasso (1581)

Plays and Poems by William Shakespeare (1589)

The Faerie Queen by Edmund Spencer (1590)

Discourses on the Heroic Poem by Tasso (1594)

Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes (1614)

L'Adone by Marino (1623)

Paradise Lost; Paradise Regained by Milton (1667)

Le Lutrin by Boileau (1674)

Order and Disorder by Lucy Hutchinson (1679)

Mac Flecknoe; Aenid English translation by Dryden (1682)

The Dispensary bu Samuel Garth (1699)

The Battle of the Books; A Tale of a Tub by Swift (1704)

The Rape of the Lock; Illiad and Odyssey English translations; Dunciad by Pope (1714)

The Vanity of Human Wishes by Samuel Johnson (1749)

Scribleriad by Richard Owen Cambridge (1751)

Faust by Goethe (1772)

The Triumphs of Temper; Essay on Epic Poetry by William Hayley (1782)

The Task by William Cowper (1785)

Joan of Arc; Thalaba the Destroyer; Madoc; The Curse of Kehama by Southey (1796)

The Prelude; The Execution by Wordsworth (1799)

Jerusalem by Blake (1804)

The Rime of the Ancient Mariner by Coleridge (1817)

Laon and Cythna; Peter Bell the Third; Prometheus Unbound by Shelley (1817)

Hyperion: A Fragment; The Fall of Hyperion by Keats (1818)

Don Juan by Byron (1819)

The Kalevala by Elias Lonnrot (1835)

Sohrah and Rustum by Matthew Arnold (1853)

Hiawatha by Longfellow (1855)

Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman (1855)

Idylls of the King by Lord Alfred Tennyson (1859)

Cantos by Ezra Pound (1917)

The Wasteland by T.S. Eliot (1922)

Ulysses by James Joyce (1922)

The Hobbit/The Lord of the Rings/The Silmarillion etc. by J.R.R. Tolkien (1937)

Gormenghast by Mervyn Peake (1946)

The White Goddess by Robert Graves (1948)

Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell (1949)

The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis (1950)

Anathemata by David Jones (1952)

Dune by Frank Herbert (1965)

The Dark Is Rising Sequence by Susan Cooper (1965)

Briggflatts by Basil Bunting (1965)

Earthsea by Ursula K. LeGuin (1968)

Dragonriders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey (1968)

The Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny (1970)

The Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice (1976)

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen Donaldson (1977)

The Magic of Xanth by Piers Anthony (1977)

Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolf (1980)

The Dark Tower by Stephen King (1982)

Belgariad and Mellorean by David Eddings (1982)

The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley (1982)

Shannara by Terry Brooks (1982)

The Riftwar Cycle by Raymond E. Feist (1982)

Discworld by Terry Pratchett (1983)

Mythago Wood by Robert Holdstock (1984)

Neuromancer by William Gibson (1984)

The Black Company (1984)

Redwall by Brian Jaques (1986)

Valdemar by Mercedes Lackey (1987)

Memory, Sorrow, Thorn by Tad Williams (1988)

Sandman by Neil Gaimon (1989)

The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan (1990)

Queen of Angels by Greg Bear (1990)

Newford by Charles de Lint (1990)

Omeros by Derek Walcott (1990)

The Saga of Recluse by L.E. Modesitt, Jr. (1991)

The Witcher by Andrzej Sapkowski (1993)

Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind (1994)

Realm of the Elderlings by Robin Hobb (1995)

His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman (1995)

Old Kingdom by Garth Nix (1995)

A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin (1996)

Animorphs by H.A. Applegate (1996)

Crown of Stars by Kate Elliott (1997)

Harry Potter by J.K. Rowling (1997)

The Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steve Erickson (1999)

The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher (2000)

The Inheritance Cycle by Christopher Paolini (2002)

Prince of Nothing by R. Scott Bakker (2003)

Bartimaeus by Jonathan Stroud (2003)

The Gentlemen Bastard Sequence by Scott Lynch (2004)

Twilight by Stephanie Meyer (2005)

Percy Jackson and the Olympians by Rick Riordan (2005)

Temeraire by Naomi Novik (2006)

The First Law by Joe Abercrombie (2006)

Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson (2006)

The Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss (2007)

Shadows of the Apt by Adrian Tchaikovsky (2008)

The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins (2008)

Graceling by Kristin Cashore (2008)

Riyria Revelations by Michael J. Sullivan (2008)

Night Angel by Brent Weeks (2008)

The Demon Cycle by Peter V. Brett (2008)

Inheritance by N.K. Jemisin (2010)

The Lightbringer by Brent Weeks (2010)

The Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson (2010)

The Expanse by James S.A. Corey (2011)

The Broken Empire by Mark Lawrence (2011)

The Lunar Chronicles by Marissa Meyer (2012)

Throne of Glass by Sarah J. Maas (2012)

Grishaverse by Leigh Bardugo (2012)

The Traitor Son Cycle by Miles Cameron (2012)

Worm by Wildbow (2013)

The Powder Mage by Brian McClellan (2013)

The Broken Earth by N.K. Jemisin (2015)

Shards of Heaven by Michael Livingston (2015)

The Green Bone Saga by Fonda Lee (2017)

The Band Series by Nicholas Eames (2017)

Winternight by Katherine Arden (2017)

The Folk of the Air by Holly Black (2018)

The Founders by Robert Jackson Bennett (2018)

The Locked Tomb by Tamsyn Muir (2019)

Grave of Empires by Sam Sykes (2019)

Djeliya by Juni Ba (2021)