#cas and jack

[sheydi0]

happy family :3

[thenameisgul]

i hate, hate, hate when someone even insinuates, yet alone says it outright, that jack brought Cas back because he saw how cas’ death was affecting dean (and somehow that’s proof that dean loved cas)

my siblings in christ, jack did bring Cas back bc of dean but not because dean was upset 🥺

jack begged for Cas to come back because dean in his grief genuinely made Jack feel so insecure and endangered that Jack desperately called out for one person who ever made him feel safe i.e Castiel.

[4ever-feral]

Damn, They are literally the same person 🥹

Like father like son

[velcroedshoe]

My grandma used to interlock our pinky fingers during prayers in church, I’d like to think these two can comfort eachother in their own angelic way

[silver-stake-through-the-heart]

Policeman: You're Mister Yamashiro's kid?

– spn 1x05

Lucifer: Castiel. Did you just Molotov my brother with holy fire?

– spn 5x22

Policewoman: [skeptical glance]

– spn 15x15

The Holy Trinity of being calling out for a lie…

…and persisting because they'd sell it with a little smile… right?

[soullessjack]

i know ive vaguely mentioned that jack is putting on his own kind of personality-performance in the same way Dean is but something else I microwave in my head a lot is how he specifically plays it up with cas and performs in a similar way. they’re like two bodysnatchers pretending they’re humans and performing traditions that they think will help them blend in (like Cas calling Jack ‘slugger’ in the tombstone script draft)

I think another aspect of Jacks character that is often forgotten is that he also isn’t entirely human, and that coupled with the general infantilization he gets from the fandom means nobody is really looking very deeply into his behavior or recognizing it as a performance—specifically one that’s rooted in his need to be seen as acceptable and “Good,” and contributes so much to the sensitivity and defensiveness he’s shown to have towards his perceived place in TFW and the Winchester family.

everyone thinks it’s cute and charming that he wanted to match ties with Cas and supposedly has a talking teddy bear toy in 15x11 (the both of which can be seen as part of traditional nuclear family roles just like Cas calling him ‘slugger,’) but when that same episode ends with jack ruefully admitting to cas that he’s going to kill himself as part of Billie’s plan and as a way to atone for the damage he caused, you really have to question the sincerity of his behavior—especially since it’s not even the first time he’s used cutesy charming behavior to essentially manage everyone’s mood and emotions to keep being perceived the way he wants to be perceived at the face value he’s created for himself (unabashedly lying to Sam and Dean about anything happening while he was out with a big smile and an “I promise,” in 14x16, and doing the same thing to Mary in the beginning of 14x17).

another thing is that if jack does feel like he can be himself and also be accepted or even praised for it, like he was in apocalypse world with Mary and the refugees that saw him as a hero, he gets immediately defensive whenever something about his [genuine] self or his capability is questioned; he gets upset at Mary for not thinking that he can beat Michael alone and blows up at Cas for thinking he’s too weak to do anything by himself as a human being, and in both of these instances he switches tones a lot between a very deadpan and blunt when he’s essentially unmasking, vs a soft one when he’s trying to be reassuring and acceptable.

it adds a lot to his identity crisis in the beginning of s14 and especially to his soulless arc, when he’s basically desperate to get back into the traditional Good Son role he’s gotten even though his own subconscious outright mocks him for it and calls him pathetic for even wanting to be that person again

*which jack also becomes increasingly defensive and blatantly aggressive about.

im losing the plot because of my stomach hurting so TLDR jack is basically a bodysnatchers playing house the same way Castiel is amen godbless peace be with you all

[loosethreadsofyoursoul]

this pic is all silly goofy haha angel getting drunk until you remember the reason he’s drinking is because he just lost his kid after tfw tried so hard to save him but were let down over and over again until all they could do was watch him die, helpless to do anything to stop it, so the only thing left to do is try to numb the pain.

[ananke-xiii]

Jack choosing Cas as his father: why I love it.

a. Children choosing their parents is a concept that just... moves me. Yeah, of course parents don't get to choose their children and Jack is not technically a child but. As. like. a symbol, an image, an idea that the offspring can claim and decide who their parents are... I just find it beautiful and that's reason enough for me;

b. according to some esoteric schools of thought we choose are parents, our destiny or our reincarnation. We, humans, don't usually remember it but Jack's not human, he does remember it and he clearly voices what he remembers and I think it's a cool aspect of both Otherness and of the infinite possibilities inside the human mind;

c. The reason behind the usage of the verb "to choose": Jack can literally choose from a pool of potential/actual fathers and he chooses Castiel and keeps choosing him once he's born;

d. Castiel is chosen by someone. I repeat: CASTIEL IS CHOSEN BY SOMEONE. SOMEONE CHOOSES CASTIEL. I don't want to go Meredith Grey on him but that angel man needed someone who chose him, picked him;

e. Being chosen is the number one fixation among angels. Jack doesn't know it but he's already acting like a God;

f. it says fuck you to "Mater semper certa est, pater semper incertus est". Yeah, sure Jack's father is not uncertain but. like. he also is a little bit? The unfortunate circumstances in which Jack was conceived leave interpretations open (not to the show because it doesn't go there but I do);

g. Jack chooses an absent father who, he thought, was supposed to keep him safe and protect him. And this father died doing just that, or foolishly thinking he was doing that, by trying to kill Jack's pseudo-actual father. This is "All about Eve" Supernatural edition and parapapapa I'm loving it;

h. Jenny Holzer's "Men don't protect you anymore". I won't elaborate on that.

I could and will go on.

[jackklinemybeloved]

I think sam and cas (as the ones who canonically read parenting books for jack) should’ve thrown around like. parenting therapy speak around dean. I want to see dean hear the words “gentle parenting” and have an aneurysm.

[valeron99]

Peacefully.

[gay-mooshrooms]

haven't gotten to him in the show yet but i am unbelievably excited to meet jack for several reasons but primarily

a. i've seen clips and he's adorable(plus we seem very similar)

and b. that was the best possible thing they ever could've done with cas's character

they really said ok, we've made the most perfect and lovable character in tv history, what could we possibly do to make him better...LETS GIVE HIM A SON!!!

AND THEN THEY DID!!!

[emilydesjardins2006]

And yet we wonder where he got it from.

[thenameisgul]

If new supernatural writers were a little more brave they would’ve made jack being soulless as cruel and terrifying as they made Sam.

Mary’s death should not have been an accident. Sam almost killed Bobby when he was soulless. He would’ve gone through with it if Dean didn’t stop him. So Jack should’ve killed Mary out of complete apathy because he simply can’t feel anything.

Then, dean trying to kill him in Moriah would’ve been somewhat justified and Chuck wanting to kill him because he was simply too powerful would’ve made sense and Sam would’ve sympathized with Jack because he knows what it’s like to be soulless.

Cas would’ve still stood by Jack because it still technically wasn’t his fault and Cas has experience not abandoning his family even when they do bad things.

That would’ve been interesting to watch.

[13x02]

there's something about people constantly yelling about the box but never talking about castiel having planned to put jack in the cage. in hell.

[angelsdean]

thinking again abt fetus jack possibly / probably brainwashing cas to some extent as a defense mechanism and specifically showing cas visions that appeal to his own personal wants and desires. and i'm imagining cas eventually finding out that's what happened and how that plays into his previous experiences with brainwashing and manipulation via heaven / naomi. how in both instances the brainwashing served to get cas on side and to fulfill a certain goal / mission. for heaven / naomi that goal was to keep cas serving heaven and going against the winchesters (and ultimately to kill dean, specifically). for fetus jack, the goal was to have cas become his protector and ensure his survival, basically to serve him and kelly (for the duration of her pregnancy), and again turn against the winchesters, whom he previously was in agreement with re: the jack situation. i imagine he'd feel some complicated emotions about it. because he's come to care for jack, obviously, but i think he'd start to wonder if he's still being influenced by jack, whether consciously or not on jack's part, especially after seeing how powerful jack truly is, how easily he can make the world bend to his will (like how he stopped the whole world from lying)

[shallowseeker]

why do you think it’s such a popular idea in fic for post-empty rescue cas to be mad at dean for letting jack become god?

like not that this trope even necessarily bothers me, i’ve read many fics that include it that i’ve absolutely loved!! it’s just a really interesting fandom trend to me cause (i think) the thing that made jack and cas’s relationship complex was that cas wanted jack to make the world better peace on earth style and all that, and like. being god would let him do that right? idk i just think it’s super interesting that this is so popular even amongst writers who like truly do love dean, if that makes sense, and i’m trying to understand why. thanks in advance!

I actually haven't read any like that, so I may not be able to answer this very well, except for the context you've given me.

In short, my TLDR; is that fandom can emphasize anything, and if they want to emphasize Cas's good qualities, I love that! I feel a little uncomfortable talking about fics, per se, because I do feel like fics have every right to live outside of meta and canon, or to take the best parts of it and run with it!

BUT. That said. I'm going to pull out the line I think you're asking about, which is, "Would Cas be okay with Jack wielding Godly power?"

///

My answer is, "it's complicated." In my world, this challenging aspect of Jack, "His Destiny" is such an overt, deeply embedded Cas arc... and I view it as affecting Cas more heavily than other members of TFW.

CAS x FREE WILL

Despite being an overarching champion of free will, the ugly truth is that Cas struggles with free will, all the way up until the end of the series.

Cas repeatedly struggles with the idea that "other angels aren't like me" and, in my opinion, he tends to reach for authoritarian "kingly" power to solve problems, like how he behaves throwing his weight around with the guard-angel and Dumah in s14 Jack in the Box. Cas is absolutely at the end of his rope, but also, he clearly expects to march in and see Naomi right away; he is acting, still, as Heaven's commander.

(Contrast this to angels like Hannah, who were messily trying to have a "court," where the "angels governed themselves.")

Jack himself is, in my opinion, treated in some ways like "a royal heir."

I like to think of Jack as the embodiment of "the good King fallacy." It's this tempting idea that power isn't the problem (even though it is); it's just going to take the "Right, Good King" to wield that power.

//

CAS x DUTY

And Cas loves Jack, of course he does!

But it takes Cas a very long time to come to terms with the fact that he's allowed to love Jack irrespective of a mission or duty (s15 Gimme Shelter, Despair).

Cas has always been tied up with duty, and he almost tends to... convert what he cares about into missions.

(Aside// Tragically, even when Cas says "I love you" in s15 Despair, it's wielded like military strategy, with so so much pragmatism, it hurts.)

I think, on the whole, Cas flounders whenever his sense of mission stalls, or especially when he feels too weak to complete the "mission."

(SEE: Cas failing to protect his cherished human family in s12, Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets, Stuck in the Middle with You.)

And I personally think that's why the "mission" of raising Jack was so attractive to him in the first place. It was something otherworldly to "honorably" tie Cas to earth. Jack was something good and strong that would restore Cas's own sense of power/accomplishment, that would make Dean feel "relieved," and would make Sam feel "free.")

Cas eventually learns that Jack doesn't have to be cosmically important in order to be important to Cas.

///

JACK x BEING UNBURDENED & "NOT SPECIAL"

But anyway! Back to your point. Jack opens up about the need to be not special to... Dean, actually. (s14, Unhuman Nature)

This might get swept under the rug too easily. Even Cas knows that Jack opens up to Dean about the things that truly bother him; it's why we see them "switch kids" in Peace of Mind. In some ways, Sam is more like Cas; Jack is more like Dean.

But it's complicated.

Dean ends the show on his lowest note ever, and there's little grace to be found for his plight.

//

CAS x DESTINY; DEAN x REVENGE

On the back-end of s15, things have imploded.

Dean and Cas are having their respective existential crises re: revenge and destiny, and Dean's crisis is much, much harsher and uglier than we're used to seeing from him.

But that doesn't change that Dean has a long, rich history of resisting destiny. He has arguably been THE most wary member of Team Free Will when it comes to power. But in s15, Dean is having a crisis, and he gives into fatalism... for a time. (This speaks volumes about how losing Mary and losing Jack were twin wounds that damaged him more than ever before.)

It's Cas who resists Chuck the most in s15, at the beginning.

BUT, IMHO, Cas's character is overall shown to be "most okay" with Jack's intense power imbalance. (Perhaps because Cas himself is... overbalanced with respect to the human family.) Tragically, we see that continued in s15, when Cas encourages Jack to "strengthen his vessel" by eating angel hearts.

Dean balks at that, but he trusts Cas. Like Cas, Dean doesn't want to push back because he doesn't want to lose their tenuously restored family.

Effectively, when Dean and Cas discuss Jack's "destiny" in s15 Destiny's Child/Galaxy Brain, they say the SAME thing but with different motivations. Cas wants Jack to take power, and Dean wants Jack to dole out some punishment.

Their motivations are different, but the end result for Jack is the same. Cas's is draped in euphemism; Dean's is brutally honest.

And we have sympathy for that! Jack died! If he's strong, then maybe Chuck can't kill him, and they'll be spared that pain forever.

But in terminal s15, Dean goes down the same path that John, Godstiel, and NBK!Mary go... he winds up losing sight of the things he wanted to protect in the first place.

///

TFW x JACK'S POWER

But here's the rub: they all show signs of liking Jack's dominance. Not just Cas.

Sam veers into this immediately, that so long as Jack's power is "molded the right way," as he tells Donatello in s13 Rising Son, that his power can be a good thing.

We see AU Bobby do an about-face about Jack after Jack wallops the angels in War of the Worlds. He's, to quote the script, looking at Jack with starry-eyed hero worship.

And even Dean begins to chomp at the bit at the idea that Jack will be able to "end all the evil in the world." He returns to the trap of the black-and-white mentality, that things can finally be solved, invoking a Purgatory-style manner of looking at the world: "it's like shooting freaks in a barrel." (In s13 Let the Good Times Roll. Dean was looking forward to passing the torch to Jack... and to his own retirement!)

I think that TFW were all "okay" with Jack's power at different turns, and this desperation is often at odds with their idealized core values. This... tragic faith in Jack is at its heart because they love and trust him.

(A la how Chuck trusted Lucifer...)

And with respect to Jack fighting Chuck and being "allowed" to take in that power, their backs are against the wall. They feel Jack is the only option.

To quote Rowena speaking of her past as a poverty-ridden peasant, "What do you do when all the choices suck?"

///

A few last things...

CAS x TOYS

It's been pointed out by clever folks that Cas is lovingly associated with childish toys! Charitably, I think you can take these associations for Cas as stand-ins that he longs for Jack to be "normal/unburdened" too.

(I'm thinking of when Cas plays Connect Four with Jack or how we assume Cas was involved in buying Marvelous Marvin the Talking Teddy for Jack in parallel to how he bought Grumpy Cat for Claire.)

I've seen a few essays sensibly point out Cas is the one who lets them be children because he buys them toys, not weapons. This is in contrast to how Dean gives Claire a gun, and how Sam teaches her fraud.

So, with respect to your question, I think it's lovely when writers take this and highlight it for Cas, giving it wonderful implications for Cas "letting kids be kids."

On the other hand, despite giving his loved ones silly tokens of affection, what is the first way Cas spends time with Jack? Teaching him battle and military skills (s14, The Scar). A hunting trip.

So clearly, childish tokens aren't the full story.

///

CAS x MUNDANITY

There is also Cas's line in 15x18 Despair:

"We don't care about you because you're useful or because you fit into some grand design. We care about you because you're you."

This line may be charitably carried to a healing place: that Cas has made peace with throwing off the chains of destiny.

It's only natural to want this. Maybe the fandom is like Dean in some ways. We want to rely on Cas and believe in him the way that Dean does. That's Cas'll do the right thing and say the right thing... at the right time.

Cas is shown to be very impatient, and he's not what I'd call an expert communicator. It's because of this, I think, that he's prone to making sweeping gestures and grand testaments, especially when the shit has hit the fan... when it's already clutch time.

But I suspect that... in the day-to-day, Cas might struggle.

But it is nice to me as well if people want to take his good qualities and carry them further, to give him peace. :-)