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zahri-melitor · 9 months

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hi hello if it's not too much trouble, what comics would you recommend for someone trying to study the batfamily characters and dynamics for a project? I don't know which writers to avoid or which runs are considered bad characterization. I know this varies with opinion but you seem super familiar with the differences between fanon and canon stuff. don't worry about keeping the list short or anything, I don't have a problem with reading a lot

Honestly, this is a ‘how long is a piece of string’ question, but I can give you some pointers.

Which 'family' characters are you looking at, and which dynamics do you want? Because the thing is, this varies significantly over time. What I can do for you is roughly discuss a bunch of different eras, and what's good content to look at in each of them.

A shortcut - you're often well served by looking at a Gotham-wide Event during the period you're interested in. Sure, people often have some objections to some of the characterisation, but if you're looking at how characters interact, they're the best place to see lots of variations.

In addition 'bad characterisation' is largely in the eye of the beholder. There's actually less agreement on what is and isn't 'bad characterisation' than you might think - it depends on who you're talking to and what stories they like. Characterisation with comics characters is best thought of as a sliding spectrum - there's a range that most people will accept, and when characters go outside it people start getting unhappy. I'll try to note major shifts or universe resets or retcons along the way though.

Pre-Crisis:

Look there is very little in pre-crisis you need to look at for this. Sometimes people will pull stuff forward for Dick and Jason as Robin or Barbara as Batgirl, but largely things stand without this.

Post-Crisis:

I'm happy to walk you through post-crisis up to 2011. I'm still getting a handle on 2011 to present myself.

The Early Days: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Robin, Barbara as Batgirl

In the beginning, there was Batman. One day he went to Haly's Circus where he saw two acrobats falling and their devastated son...you know how this one goes.

Pretty much everything set in this period is flashback stories, so they frequently retread the same ground over and over. Want to see the Graysons fall? You're in luck! Choose one of the more than a dozen versions! (I'm not going to list them all even though I like many)

Quality stories looking at this period include:-

Batman Year One (1986) - Batman #404-407. I am recommending this, yes, even though it's Frank Miller, because it gets referenced a lot. It's a decent retelling and the best work Miller's ever done for the Bat books by a long shot. Bruce's origin story.

Robin: Year One (2000) - Chuck Dixon and Scott Beatty. This is probably my preferred version of early Bruce and Dick stories, and it's conveniently got a sequel in...

Batgirl: Year One (2003) - Chuck Dixon and Scott Beatty. Barbara's origin as Batgirl and the only one worth reading. These two update the Dick and Barbara as Robin and Batgirl dynamics into post-Crisis.

Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet (1997) - Bruce Canwell. This is a single issue about the 'final exam' test Dick took to become Robin. I really enjoy it.

Robin & Batman (2021) - Jeff Lemire. A very recent update of early Dick as Robin. If you want something recent and quick, this is the pick. The characterisation is good but I have a bunch of quibbles with the details.

World's Finest: Batman/Superman (2022) - Mark Waid & Dan Mora. Here's a current ongoing for you! A rarity in that is set reasonably late Dick's time as Robin, and it also doesn't repeat identical beats to those above. Lots of Bruce and Dick, strong Silver Age vibes in relationships, and a lot of fun. A great intro to the wider DC simultaneously too.

Robin II: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Jason as Robin, Barbara as...around

Honestly this is a period I'm weaker on. Jason's post-crisis run as Robin is pretty compact: Batman #401-428 and 'Tec #568-582. Jim Starlin's the writer who wanted to kill Jason off.

Batman #408-411 (1987) - Max Collins. The original post-Crisis 'Dick Becomes Nightwing' and 'Jason becomes Robin' story.

The Diplomat's Son - Batman #424 (1988) - Jim Starlin. This is the issue everyone talks about, where Felipe Garzonas dies. You should read it just to understand the debate, if nothing else.

A Death in the Family - Batman #426-428 (1988) - Jim Starlin. Jason's death.You should read this if you want to understand the dynamics surrounding these events and what actually happened.

The New Teen Titans - look I can't get my head around the numbering of NTT, but if you want to go into this there are eleventy million guides. NTT is very popular. This is Dick as Nightwing during this period, Marv Wolfman and George Perez working together, and considered by people who like Nightwing during this period as the definitive version. Jason appears in a few issues.

Nightwing Year One (2005) - Nightwing #101-106, Chuck Dixon. Now this is going to be extremely controversial, but I do actually recommend people read Nightwing Year One. It's a retcon, but it's an important retcon because it lays out the dynamics of Jason's time as Robin as comics writers have changed them to be following his death. If you want to see how comics writes Jason as the 'angry' and 'risky' Robin following his death, this is the most compact way to see how the narrative changed.

Batgirl Special #1 (1988) - Barbara Randall. Barbara's last appearance as Batgirl. Randall is Barbara's best contemporary Batgirl writer, and this is a loving sendoff for a character who was about to get shredded.

The Killing Joke (1988) - Alan Moore. You should probably read it. Barbara is shot in the spine. However if you want to skip it that's completely fine as the relevant beats have been retold almost as many times as the Graysons have fallen.

Gotham Knights #43-45 (2003) - Scott Beatty. This is probably the best telling of the fallout of Jason's death on the family, particularly Barbara's reaction. If you want Batfam dynamics this is what you should look at.

New Beginnings: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Steph as Spoiler

This is an interesting period in that it's the first threads of what we now call the Batfamily, but they're only just starting to come together as Tim picks each one up. (No, seriously. This era is 'Tim meets people and works with them')

Also as will be the case for a while from here on, at least 50% of all content is written by Chuck Dixon. Now Dixon has his downsides - he's notoriously a conservative homophobe and his views can be seen in the text quite frequently, but he is really good at writing relationships between characters, and he loves a crossover. If you love the modern Batfam, you do have to acknowledge Dixon for his work.

A Lonely Place of Dying (1989) Batman #440-442, New Titans #60-61 - Marv Wolfman & George Perez. Tim's origin story. Very clear on the outset dynamics between Bruce and Dick.

Identity Crisis (1990) Batman #455-457 - Alan Grant. Tim's first night out as Robin in his own costume, plus early dynamics between Bruce & Tim. A tear jerker.

To the Father I Never Knew (1992) Batman #480 - Alan Grant. If you want to actually understand the foundation of Jack and Tim's relationship and how he contrasts it with his relationship with Bruce - look no further.

Robin III (1992) - Chuck Dixon. A very early Tim team-up with Huntress. This is a good place to start for how her relationship with the other Bats evolves in Gotham.

'Tec #647-649 (1992) - Chuck Dixon. Steph's original time out as Spoiler. Again foundational dynamics.

Oracle Year One (1996) Batman Chronicles #5, John Ostrander and Kim Yale. The story of how Barbara became Oracle. Stunning. Essential.

Knightfall: Bruce as Batman, JPV as Azrael and Batman, Dick as Nightwing and Batman, Tim as Robin, everyone else keeping out the way

Knightfall is huge and messy and all over the place but there is magic in here. You just have to dig. Parts I particularly like for family dynamics:-

Batman: Sword of Azrael (1992) - Dennis O'Neil. This is an excellent intro to John-Paul Valley, and get comfortable, because this is what Denny's going to write for the next 10 years.

Batman #488 (1993) - Doug Moench. JPV starts working at Wayne Corp. Tim is assigned to teach him the ropes as a crimefighter in Gotham.

Batman #500 (1993) - Doug Moench. JPV becomes Batman. Dick turns up to complain to Tim about Bruce being insufferable. It's all here.

Bloodbath #1 (1993) - Dan Raspler. This is a terrible comic BUT it also contains some gold dynamics between JPV, Dick and Tim.

Knightsend (1994) - team written. Bruce, Dick and Tim work together to help Bruce rehab from his injury and take down JPV. Legends of the Dark Knight #63 in particular is stunning.

Prodigal (1994) - team written. Dick as Batman and Tim as his Robin. The final issue, Robin #13, has Bruce and Dick's reconciliation over both the fight when Dick became Nightwing AND their fight after Jason died. Essential.

Welcome to the Family: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, JPV as Azrael, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Steph as Spoiler

I will fight to convince you that this is the first true 'Batfam'. Everything prior to this is Bruce and his Robin, with occasional associates. This is where it goes from the Dynamic Duo to a network who intersect constantly.

Writers: It's a lot of Doug Moench and Chuck Dixon still.

Nightwing: Alfred's Return and Batman #521 (1995) - Alan Grant & Doug Moench. Alfred quit during Knightfall due to what Bruce was doing to himself. This is how Dick got him to come home, and the reunion.

Contagion (1996) - team written. The Event where Gotham gets the Clench (aka Ebola). Massive teamup storyline featuring Bruce, Dick, Tim, JPV, Helena, Selina, and Barbara.

Legacy (1997) - team written. Oh no, it's the Clench Round Two. Here we go again. Basically the same team, but JPV doesn't get invited after he proved he'd forgotten was a fax machine was last event, and Helena gets a more significant role.

Robin important family issues during this period: #17 (with Helena), #29-30 (with Barbara), #34 (with Helena), #35 (with Steph), #45 (with Jack Drake), #47 (with Dick)

Nightwing important family issues during this period: #6 (with Tim), #7 (with Babs), #13-14 (with Bruce), #16 (with Babs)

Birds of Prey important family issues during this period: Birds of Prey Manhunt, as it sets the tone for Barbara and Helena's relationship for a WHILE.

No Man's Land: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, JPV as Azrael, Helena as Huntress and the Bat, Barbara as Oracle, Steph as Spoiler, Cass as Batgirl

The earthquake where everything goes wrong. The most notable addition to the writing pool is Greg Rucka. Honestly this is a 'so many parts of this are worthwhile, read it all' sort of period, but to help navigate there's a handful of really important points:-

Nightwing #20 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. The Dick, Babs and Tim reunion issue during Cataclysm. The world's fallen apart but they're back together.

Nightwing #25 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. Dick takes Tim trainsurfing

Brotherhood of the Fist (1998) - Chuck Dixon. This is a teamup with Connor Hawke involving Bruce, Dick and Tim. I love the dynamics here.

Huntress/Spoiler Special - Blunt Trauma (1998) - Chuck Dixon. The one Helena and Steph team up during Cataclysm. Get a dynamic you won't see anywhere else.

'Tec #725 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. Dick tells Bruce that he's going to become a cop.

'Tec #727 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. Another Dick, Babs and Tim teamup to take on Firefly.

Mark of Cain (1999) - Kelley Puckett. Cass's intro story.

Birds of Prey #8 (1999) - Chuck Dixon. Dick and Babs visit Haly's Circus

Robin #67 (1999) - Chuck Dixon. Tim and Dick break into No Man's Land.

Legends of the Dark Knight #120 (1999) - Greg Rucka. Team reunion in NML at the Clocktower.

Nightwing #38-39 (1999) - Chuck Dixon - Babs looks after an injured Dick in the Clocktower.

Legends of the Dark Knight #125 (1999) - Greg Rucka. Bruce and Jim finally discuss their issues. Barbara and Tim wait upstairs.

Endgame (1999) - various. Whole team works to track down Joker and some kidnapped babies on Christmas Eve.

A New City, A New Team: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, JPV as Azrael, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Cass as Batgirl, Steph as Spoiler

This is the final Chuck Dixon era, the Rucka & Brubaker run on Batman and 'Tec, Devin Grayson on Gotham Knights, and probably my favourite era of comics ever. It's hit after hit after hit. Pick up any comic here. You won't be disappointed.

Major highlights not to miss:

Gotham Knights #1-12 (2000) - Devin Grayson. GK is my favourite Bat anthology book ever, but this run includes Transference. The overarching plot is Bruce analysing his team in a series of case notes. Unmissable.

Hunt for Oracle (2000) - Chuck Dixon. The US government tries to track Oracle down. Babs, Dick and Dinah make sure they fail.

Officer Down (2001) - various. Jim Gordon is shot. This is the consequences as people search for his attacker.

Joker Last Laugh (2001) - various. Joker thinks he is about to die and breaks out of the Slab. Chaos ensues. This is the one where everyone thinks Croc kills Tim, and reacts accordingly.

Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive (2002) - various. Bruce has been pushing everyone away for a while, so when he's accused of murder, they must ask the question, did he do it? Everyone tries to solve the mystery of who killed Vesper Fairchild, and Bruce goes through one of his 'am I Bruce or am I Batman' periods.

Batgirl #18 & #20 (2001) - Kelley Puckett. Cass' first team ups with Tim and Steph respectively.

Batman/Huntress: Cry for Blood (2000) - Greg Rucka. THE definitive Batfam Huntress book.

Hush It Looks Like War: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Cass as Batgirl, Steph as Spoiler and Robin

Among the drama of Murderer/Fugitive, almost every single book gets a new writer. Jon Lewis takes Robin followed by Bill Willingham, Devin Grayson takes Nightwing, Birds of Prey gets fills until Gail Simone picks it up, Dylan Horrocks takes over Batgirl, Jeph Loeb writes Hush on Batman, Scott Beatty takes Gotham Knights. Personally I endorse basically all these runs but Grayson on Nightwing is controversial.

Hush (2003) Batman #608-619 - Jeph Loeb. Famous for a reason, this is a Bruce story that touches on his relationships with almost EVERY major character in his life (Cass and Steph miss out).

Gotham Knights - Scott Beatty. I don't know what to pick here but #47-49 is a team story of Bruce, Dick, Tim and Cass following Bane to a Kobra stronghold which shows off the developed family-like relationship between the 4 at this point.

Robin - Jon Lewis. Your highlights here are Tim and Steph on a date together (#111), and the 16th Birthday Story (#116-120) because it's essential to understanding where Tim and Bruce are at.

Robin - Bill Willingham. Jack finds out Tim is Robin. Tim quits. Steph becomes Robin. It's an essential arc.

Nightwing - Grayson. This is widely disliked but #81 is a great Dick, Bruce and Cass issue.

Birds of Prey - Simone. Helena joins Barbara on the Birds of Prey. They very, very slowly work through their issues with each other.

Batgirl - Horrocks. #38, Steph and Cass play tag. #45, Cass tries on Barbara's old costume. #50, Bruce drugs himself and Cass with Soul and they fight. #54, Barbara and Cass argue over her reading ability.

And then lurking in the background...War Games hits and tears the Batfam apart, with a doubletap from Identity Crisis.

Leaving Gotham: Bruce as Batman, Dick out of costume, Tim as Robin, Cass as Batgirl, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress annnnd Jason as Red Hood

Steph is dead. Barbara and Helena leave Gotham for Metropolis. Tim and Cass move to Bludhaven. Dick runs off to join the mob. And in Gotham, Red Hood appears.

Writers: Well we've added Judd Winick on Batman, and now have Andersen Gabrynch on Batgirl. Gotham Knights is now mostly A.J. Lieberman and no longer a good Batfam book (it's now a Hush book). 'Tec honestly isn't worth it during this period. Willingham on Robin has a handful of decent issues to start out then increasingly gets weirdly conservative with some very odd plotlines.

Fresh Blood (2005) Robin #132-133, Batgirl #58-59 - Willingham & Gabrynch. This is a Tim and Cass team up as they move to Bludhaven and mourn together.

Under the Red Hood (2005) - Batman #635-650. You know what this is. It's the Jason returns story.

Nightwing - Grayson. #100 - a strong reflection on Dick's past plus the most heartbreaking part of the Dick/Babs breakup as Dick just runs from all his problems. #110. Tim and Dick meet in Bludhaven and fail to tell each other all the bad things happening in their lives. #112. Dick and Helena run into each other both undercover in the mob. #117. Dick finally talks to Bruce about Blockbuster, and proposes to Babs.

Robin - Willingham. #134 is the pick of the bunch - Bruce offers to adopt Tim and Tim reflects on his time as Robin, though it's a solid little story out to #138 as the truth about Uncle Eddie comes out.

Birds of Prey - Simone. #76, the Babs side of the breakup. #83-84, Helena with the mob and encountering Dick. #90, Helena gives Bruce the new compiled mob data handbook and Bruce compliments her.

Batgirl - Gabrynch. This is a strong well loved run for the build up to Cass' final fight with Shiva, but for Batfam you can't go past #67, when Cass reunites with Babs. Also Cass hallucinates Steph twice in this run (#61 & #72).

Then Infinite Crisis arrives and we all move a year into the future.

One Year Later: Bruce is Batman, Dick is Nightwing, Tim is Robin, Jason is Red Hood, Damian arrives, Cass eventually returns to Batgirl

At this point Barbara and Helena are largely doing their own thing with the Birds of Prey and won't return to the Batfam until Reborn.

New writers all around! Adam Beechen and Fabian Nicieza on Robin, Marv Wolfman and Peter Tomasi on Nightwing, Adam Beechen on Batgirl, Grant Morrison on Batman and Paul Dini on Detective Comics.

Face the Face (2006) Batman #651-654, 'Tec #817-820 - James Robinson. The Bruce and Tim story that set up Tim's adoption.

Batman and Son (2006) Batman #655-658 - Grant Morrison. Damian's introduction to the family.

Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul (2008) - various. Ra's tries to kidnap Damian to steal his body. Bruce, Dick and Tim go to rescue him. Dick and Tim's subplot involves the highest point of their brotherhood as Dick talks Tim out of trying resurrect his lost dead.

Robin - Beechen. #156, the suicide prevention issue, for Tim and Dick. #163, Tim and Bruce on their first Father's Day. #165, Tim and Bruce working on a car together.

Robin - Nicieza. Steph's return as Spoiler. #177, where Jason thinks he can recruit Tim (and fails miserably).

Nightwing - Wolfman. You know what? #117-122, the 'Jason dresses as Nightwing and harasses Dick and turns into a tentacle monster' saga. Does everyone like to say it's out of character? Yes. Is it Jason being just as annoying as he will proceed to be all the way to 2011? Also yes. That's Jason's post-Crisis character.

Nightwing - Tomasi. Freefall, #140-146. This is just a beautiful encapsulation of Dick's many connections, of his teamwork with Bruce and Tim, and of what makes him tick.

Heart of Hush (2008) 'Tec #846-850 - Paul Dini. The premise is ridiculous, but it's about Bruce and Selina, and about Dick and Tim helping track down Hush.

Batgirl (2008) - Adam Beechen. Beechen after squiffing it with the Evil Cass saga, gets to undo the damage to Cass's character and return her to the family. I think it's a pretty successful job, despite Dick spending the entire book holding the idiot ball so someone can be unsupportive. Cass gets adopted. Tim and Barbara never lose their faith in her.

Battle for the Cowl: EVERYONE IS FREEFORM

Everyone will tell you this is all horribly out of character. They're wrong. Come for Fabian Nicieza doing hard work to actually set up characters in the places they need to be for Reborn.

Battle for the Cowl: the Network (2009) - Fabian Nicieza. Oracle and the Birds of Prey have returned to Gotham but for reasons they're not calling themselves the Birds of Prey, so it's the Network.

Oracle The Cure (2009) - Kevin VanHook. Early set up for Wendy Harris' future plot. Babs gets the mentoring itch again.

Azrael: Death's Dark Knight (2009) - Fabian Nicieza. A new Azrael for a splinter faction of the Order of St Dumas appears. Dick and Babs are immediately suspicious (and Dick has to be talked out of immediately kicking the Azrael's butt just on the SUSPICION it might be JPV).

Also the main event books happen and everyone yells at each other a lot about who should be Batman.

Batman Reborn: Bruce is missing, Dick is Batman, Tim is Red Robin, Damian is Robin, Jason is Red Hood, Barbara is Oracle, Steph is Batgirl, Cass is Black Bat

New titles! New writers! Things all over the place! People who like Jason are going to claim all of Jason's appearances are once again out of character, but Jason fans claim that about every time Jason breathes outside of UTRH, Lost Days and a small handful of very select stories after Flashpoint. I'm just saying, villain Jason is pretty consistently irritating between 2007 and 2011.

Red Robin #1-12 (2009) - Chris Yost. Not only Tim's new costume arc, but a great look at Tim's centrality as a character to the Batfam in the number of contacts he calls in at the end of the run.

Red Robin #17 & #25 (2010) - Fabian Nicieza. Tim and Cass working together as siblings and backing each other up.

Batman & Robin #20-22 (2011) - Peter Tomasi. I would strongly argue this is the best arc in B&R with the best characterisation.

Batman & Robin (2009) - Grant Morrison. Look, a lot of people like the foundation of Dick and Damian's relationship found here. Also Jason shows up to be a pain.

Streets of Gotham (2009) - Paul Dini. There's a bunch of good storylines in this anthology book, but #5-6 with Dick, Helena and Kirk Langstrom is one I particularly like.

Batman #703 (2010) - Fabian Nicieza. The best Dick, Damian and Tim team-up issue of Reborn.

Gates of Gotham (2011) - Scott Snyder. The masterpiece of Batfamily content. Dick, Tick, Damian and Cass all feature in this and all 6 possible relationships are shown in different parts.

Batgirl #3-5, #17 (2009) - Bryan Q. Miller. Damian and Steph team ups, plus a look into the tension in the Dick and Barbara relationship at the time.

Birds of Prey #10 (2011) - Gail Simone. Barbara discusses her new realignment of how she's working as Oracle and focusing on the Bats.

The Black Mirror (2010) 'Tec #871-881 - Scott Snyder. Some of the best writing of Dick as Batman during this period, and a look into his relationships with Jim Gordon, Barbara, and Tim particularly.

The Return Home (2010) - various. Bruce comes back to Gotham after his 'death' and checks in on everyone.

#reading list recs #dc #wow that took a while #here's the batfamily

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