#canon! marc doesn't deserve canon! nathaniel

[imsparky2002]

Talking with Thomas - Evillustrator

A privilge that cast members of Miraculous Ladybug got was that they got to have discussions with their creator, Thomas Astruc. They could give compliments on the writing, or give critiques to the script. The kid that was speaking to Thomas today was Nathaniel. “Evillustrator” was his first big episode, a huge opportunity for someone who had barely any lines and didn’t really stand out from the other boys, aside his red hair. He was shocked and pleased when he heard he’d be turned into an akuma, but then he got a look at the script, which is what sent him to talk with Thomas. The meeting started well enough, with Thomas welcoming him with a warm smile.

“Ah, Nicholas! Have a seat.” he said.

“Actually, I-It’s Nathaniel, sir.” Nathaniel reminded. Thomas just shrugged it off. “Well, first off, I just wanted to say thank you for giving me an akumatized episode. Really honored.” Astruc just nodded in appreciation.

“Well of course, Nemanja!”

“Nathaniel.”

“Whatever. We’re on our way to giving every member of Marinette’s class a chance to shine, and you just happened to be next on the list.” Thomas replied. At this point, Nathaniel rocked back in forth in his chair, uneager to reveal his complaints.

“Well, that’s the thing, Mr. Astruc. I looked at the script and-” he was cut off.

“It’s great, right! Some of our best work if I do say so myself. The design and powers are so unique, so fitting of an artist such as yourself.” Thomas gushed.

“Y-yes, I do like the powers, even if they are a little OP.” Nathaniel muttered. “No, my problem is with the motivation.”

“Motivation? What, you mean the reason you get akumatized? You know nobody cares about that junk, right? All that matters is we get to see them become a cool monster.” Thomas said, clearly not giving a rats ass about how important motivation truly was. Nathaniel took a deep breath and just let it all out.

“I come off like a creep in this episode.”

Thomas raised his eyebrows, looking at Nathaniel as if he had grown two heads.

“What are you on about?” he asked.

“Well, sir. In the beginning, I’m fantasizing and writing a comic where a self-insert superhero saves Marinette, and she falls in love with him.” Nathaniel stated. Thomas just blinked in response.

“It’s real-person fanfiction! I didn’t ask for Marinette’s consent, I objectify her in the comic, just make her the damsel-in-distress to be saved by my OC. My character feels that it doesn’t matter if his love interest consents to being drawn in his fantasies. That’s really messed up.” Nathaniel argued.

“He’s just daydreaming, that’s all. It’s not like he’d act upon it.” Thomas defended, earning a look of bewilderment from Nathaniel.

“But it doesn’t matter. This is a show for kids, right? We shouldn’t be teaching them that it’s ok to do stuff like this. If we’re writing my character to have a crush on Marinette, it should be sympathetic. We should root for this guy, not feel like we’re watching a “nice guy” coping with being alone by having shower arguments and writing Mary Sue fics on AO3!”

“To be honest, I have no idea what any of those words mean.” Thomas admitted.

“Look, I like that Evillustrator is cordial to Marinette and all, but remember, she’s only doing it so he won’t destroy the city. Can’t we at least have Nathaniel apologize to Marinette for putting her through such a thing? Not just the akuma stuff, but all the creepy shit he was doing with his characters.” Nathaniel pleaded.

“Come on, Nardwuar”

“NATHANIEL!”

“Gesundheit. You know we don’t do apologies for most characters, unless it’s Marinette.”

“You know what. Fine. I’ll do the episode, but I’ll make sure that everyone else in the cast knows how much I hated it.”

“We really don’t care. Do what you want.”

Nathaniel stormed out, but came back for a second.

“Two more things. One, I don’t like Marinette in that way, I have a boyfriend named Marc, who you still haven’t given any screentime to. Second, we all know you named Sabine after a girlfriend, and that you named Marinette’s dad after yourself. Marinette exists to be your virtual child, and she finds that apalling. You’re a fucking creep, sir.”

“Whatever, see you on set, Nathaniel.”

“AHA! So you do remember my name!”

And there you have it. I plan on doing this sort of thing with other characters as well. I really can’t stand what the show’s become, and I’m only a casual watcher! I’ve always been bothered by Nathaniel’s first episode, not to mention that he was pretty much forgotten about until Reverser, only because Marc liked him and was akumatized. Come to think of it, I actually don’t really like Canon!Nathaniel. His design is neat, but whenever the focus is on him, he just comes across as a “nice guy”, impulsive, manipulative (Penalteam), guy with anger issues (Reverser). A shame because whenever he’s not the focus, he seems like a chill guy. I still love Fanon Nathaniel, he’s my baby. You can thank @artzychic27 for giving me a love for Nath and Marc. Check out their work as BooksRBetterThanPeople on AO3. @artzychic27 @msweebyness 

[justanotherpersonsuniverse]

1st of all, amazing chapter cap. I woke up from a nap to see the email telling me it updated and it was amazing.

2nd, fuck you. How dare you not tell us who Grim is, I feel betrayed. But like also great story telling, kagami wouldn't know who the fuck they are because shes not around much. But still, fuck you.

3rd, early congrats on 1k kudos for Panthera, you deserve it. Your writing is amazing and you deserve all the kudos on ao3.

Alright I'm done with the numbers ima start theorizing now.

The identity of Grim

So my first point is that Kagami didn't know who they were, or at least not their name. This eliminates the gang(we sorta knew it wasn't any of them, but I kept them in mind because idk what kinda shit you were gonna pull), and Luka. Obviously it's not Marinete and Adrien because dramatic irony and shit so that leaves a few people.

Namely; Ivan, Mylene, Max, Kim, Nathaniel, Rose, Marc, Mireille, and Lila.

Ima start by eliminating a few of these.

Kagami never had a chance to meet or see Lila, I doubt it's her.

I doubt Kagami wouldn't know Rose's name. With how much the rest of the game makes fun of Juleka and now much Rose would talk about Juleka, Kagami definently would have picked up the girl's name.

Similarly, I think Mylene can be eliminated in a similar fashion. Kagami hangs around Marinette in cat form a lot and, going by Marinette's character, Marinette totally would have told this cat about her little best friend's squad. Kagami also would have seen pictures of Mylene(and Rose) around Marinette's room and probably learned their names. So I think I can safely eliminate Mylene(and rose again)

Reverser happens after queens battle, so nobody except Marinette has met Marc yet, so I think he can be safely eliminated.

The Grim's saying 'spooky spooky ghost realm' makes me think it's not Max, he doesnt talk like that. Also I doubt he would get excited like that when Kagami said that they were friends.

The fact that Grim knows Luka eliminates Mireille. Mireille wouldn't know Luka, or most of the class.

So, my final list of possibilities is Ivan, Kim, and Nathaniel.

I personally cant see it being Ivan. It doesn't make any sense to me, plus it would destroy my theory of Ivan and Mylene having some magical shenanigans going on together. Ima set ivan aside since I personally dont think its him. I have no evidence to back this claim, I simply dont think it makes sense story wise.

Kim is a possibility, but I think his general vibe denies him being 'psychopomp doggo to the Eternal Graveyard'. That's just my opinion though and I have no evidence to support or deny him being Grim.

Nathaniel, out of the final 3, seems like the most likely. Man looks tired and traumatized, maybe from seeing so many dead kids. He would also totally get a little excited at a new friend because the boy's kinda lonely, especially with his bestie Alix constantly hanging out with her totally-not-werewolf-girlfriend Chloe so often. But I still think he's the Haunted so idk.

Ok so none of the final options make sense, so lets go back to the ones I eliminated.

Starting with Max, he is injured I'm the miracuclass artwork you posted and Grim was just injured. Also his personality would totally fit a graveyard psychopomp creature. However, as I said before, the speach patterns dont match up.

Mylene is a possibility because my elimination method for her was full of assumptions and guesses and could be totally wrong. But also shes a sniveling coward and I doubt she could fight an evil spirit while guiding a dead kid to a graveyard without bursting out into tears and running away and Grim seemed supremely chill with the whole dead kid thing. So lets leave Mylene alone for now.

Rose, seemingly the most obvious choice and therefore totally is not Grim. While her irises look white in the miracuclass artwork and the grape ice cream thing in the date chapter happened, I think these are both red herrings. In the new chapter Kagami says the Grim had human eyes after they undoggified(is that the word?). Implying that their eyes looked normal, no supernatural aspects about them. Also the grape ice cream thing must be a total red herring because, its Rose of course she would be distressed by cute doggies dying. Also the rebirth grape thing is probably the better clue for what Rose is, but ima not get into that right now.

That's it, that's all I got. This ask got really long.

So in conclusion; it's not Rose, Max, Marc, Lila, or Mireille. Everyone else is up in the air. I have no idea. Cap is playing jedi mind tricks on us. Someone free our souls from this frog's grasp.

That's it, analysis over.

Let me make this worse for you

Kagami does know the Grim’s name now and who they are, sorry for the confusion for a line that might’ve said other wise, Kagami has met them, Kagami has a name for them now.

Mylene isn’t a coward neither here nor in canon, she’s just socially shy.

And as I quote from my Traits post “Like I don’t think I’d write this in into the fic but when drawing like-” meaning I wouldn’t acknowledge these consistent traits outright in the fic but when drawing they’d be there.

Hope this makes things worse for you! :D

[nobodyfamousposts]

which kids in the class are more likely to (at the very least passively) support marinette or give her the benefit of the doubt? As much as it is not likely to happen (properly) in canon I really want to see some happiness for our girl. She doesn't deserve this crap.

Given what we’ve seen in canon (and including Chameleon despite how much I don’t want to), I have to say it would be:

Alix - easily overlooked, but she was the one to defend Marinette in Reverser when Nathaniel thought she and Marc were pranking him. That suggests she knows the type of person Marinette is and wouldn’t be so easily fooled. Also bear in mind her interaction with Marinette in Timebreaker. Marinette made the banner mostly for HER. And when her watch broke, Marinette prioritized consoling her over the cake. It was pointed out that she even avoided touching Marinette when she was closer to her in favor of going after the other members of the class.

Nathaniel - He previously jumped the gun in Reverser and assumed the worst of her only to be proven wrong. His old crush on her aside, he and Marinette are both part of the Art Club and seem to have at least some interaction because of that. I also figure that as an artist, he would be more easily overlooked by Lila compared to the more notable and outgoing members of the class.

Juleka - Marinette helped her out with the photo curse and has been spending time with her when hanging with Kitty Section. After seeing Marinette stick up for her in that AND Silencer, she’d know Marinette is a good person who stands up for others and will speak up if she thinks something is wrong. I’d see her being quiet, but still pretty positive towards Marinette despite Lila’s tactics.

Rose - She loves everybody. We’ve called Adrien the Sunshine Child, but Rose is the true bundle of positivity who sees the best in people. Plus again, Kitty Section. She knows full well Marinette supported them in more ways than she really had to.

Max - He might buy into Lila’s lies, but Marinette was the one he turned to for help when Markov was taken and she went so far as to get herself in trouble to do it. He would be the one to note the probability of whatever Lila’s claims are against Marinette and look for more data at the very least—napkins aside. Plus I’d imagine Markov would pick up on the false information sooner or later.

Alya - She may believe Lila’s lies, but I honestly believe that she would try to support Marinette regardless rather than turn on her outright. She may try to convince Marinette that Lila isn’t as bad as she thinks, but she wouldn’t outright abandon her and bully her.

[andromeda612]

You know? I see this and couldn't help but think about a Marcaniel plot with this!

So, I've seen that in the salt fics where Nathaniel is part of the salt, he ends his partnership with Marc all because of Lila. And Marc is heartbroken :c and Mari is fuirous ;-; luckly they support each other and Marc moves on... but still it breaks my heart because... Marcaniel! Soooo

I assume that everybody is dealing with their salt!selves in school, and everybody is horrified of the things their Salt!selves did to Salt!Marinette, also everybody is horrified of Saltinette because well, we know how she is (and since I like class sugar this would make the class think more about the things Lila said, specially because the Salt!class talk about her tales and some are pretty dumb or too good for be real, also the fact that Marinette would never be a bully)

Anyway, they are horrified but in different levels, and Nathaniel is the less one, because in the salt fics he have a very low or null participation, so I imagine that he just glares at Mari and maybe calls her names, and just he keeps to himself and do nothing more. So Canon!Nathaniel is annoyed with Salt!Nathaniel but just that, so he just ignore him, and Salt!Nathaniel also ignores him, and he doesn't talk with him like the others Salt!classmates.

And that is it... until the art gang go to the art room. Since the Salt!selves don't know what to do they just follow their Canon!selves. (Marinette is also in the art room since Saltinette told her that the akuma responsible of that mess is from her universe, so they have to wait until the akuma come for her miraculous)

Sooo... ahora si se viene lo chido!

The canon! Art gang is in the artclub and shortly after are joined by Marc, he is very stunned to see clones of his friends, they explain a little and he is also horrified about the things Salt!selves did. Also he is starting to feel a little awkward because some of the Salt!Art gang (Alix and Nath) glares him once they realise his presence.

The Canon!gang also notice and start to worry, this time Canon!Nathaniel too. So, to ignore the tension everybody just start with their work, that's when Salt!Nathaniel opens his stupid mouth.

"Why are you still working with him in the comic?"

And everybody is silent because... what? They are the comic duo, what is he talking about? Now the Canon!gang is starting to have a dread feeling, Marc is starting to feel insecure and Canon!Nathaniel is both dread of what his salt version mean, and angry because he notice how Marc stiff at that question, he knows Marc is starting to feel insecure and he is not going to tolerate it! Nobody upset Marc in his guard, much less some idiot version of himself from another universe.

"What do you mean? He is my partner and my BEST friend"

Salt!Nathaniel scoffs and says that he broke his partnership with the Marc of his universe

"YOU DID WHAT?" now Canon!Nathaniel IS horrified with his salt version, how could he?

"Well Lila was right, I deserve a better writer, he is a burden for my career"

And Canon!Nathaniel is even more horrified, and when sees Marc sunk in his seat and looking down the horror turns into cold and crude fury HOW DARE HE?

"What. Did. You. Say?" His tone is calm but his friends know how angry is him, Marc looks up and seeing how furious his best friend is the insecurity is gone and now is worried, because he knows Nathaniel is impulsive when is angry.

And Salt!Nathaniel doesn't had time to answer because Canon!Nathaniel just snaps

"WHAT IN THE FUCKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?"

The Salt!selves flinch and the Canon!gang know that this is serious, Nathaniel raise his voice when is angry yeah, but he hardly screams like that. Also, even if he is very angry if Marc is present he tries to not swear, the fact that he just sweared in front of him, in front of his angel like he calls him in secret and just the girls know about it, just means that he is blood thirsty angry. The Canon!girls and Marc start to look for any butterfly.

But the Canon!girls can't blame him, they know how much Marc means to him, and hearing this things! They are angry too, Marc is the least person to deserve being traeted like this.

Salt!Nathaniel also gets angry and starts to say that Marc is not his friends because he sided with a bully (Canon Marinette and Saltinette give him a touched look, Marc is a good friend) and then starts to talk about how Lila said he was a burden because he was not that good of a writer, that his stories were dull, that his anxiety would be a problem etc, etc. And then he tells them that Lila promised that she would introduce him to a better and famous writer.

And Canon!Nathaniel is even more angry and the Canon!Girls too, even Canon!Rose looks ready to punch someone.

Canon!Nathaniel starts to defend Marc, saying how amazing he is, that he is the sweetest most caring person in the world, that he is an awesome writer and the best partner he could ask for, that his stories are amazing, he is one if the most talented persons he knows, that every day he gets better with his anxiety, and that would never be a problem to him, and that he (the salt version) was a fool for abandoning him, specially for empty words from a girl that he barely knows. And then...

"Lila said..." and he doesn't finish because

"THAT'S IT, I'M KILLING HIM"

And Marc has to restrain him from beating up his salt version.

Marinette also has to restrain Saltinette from beating Salt!Nathaniel up too. Saltinette was very furious with him when her Marc went to her house crying, but she never did anything just for her Marc's calm sake (in every universe Marc is too gentile for his own good) but they are in another universe in which even the other version of himself wants to punch him, so fuck it!. Though, Marinette feels very tempted to let her go.

In the backgroung Canon!Julerose have to restrain Canon!Alix for the same reason. Marc is one of her best friends and has a heart too kind to deserve this, she is also ready for blood. And Canon!Julerose also look like they are very tempted to let her go, Marc was nothing but nice and talented and they know how his anxiety sometimes makes things difficult for him, and is unfair.

Salt!Julerose have to restrain Salt!Alix, she wants to defend her best friend.

Marinette is still looking for akumas.

And when it seems that Canon!Nathaniel is about to break free from Marc's grasp, they heard a commtion outside and go to see what is it. The akuma form the Salt Universe is finally here, everybody flee and the Marinettes go to transform.

Canon!Nathaniel takes Marc's hand and run as far as he can from the akuma and as far as he can from Salt!Nathaniel.

They go to Marc's house, and once they are safe inside, Nathaniel doesn't think twice and hugs Marc tightly, holding him as close as he can, and starts to say how much he means to him, that he meant what he said in the art room and to not let what the other Nathaniel said get to him, he would never think like that.

Marc returns the hug with the same energy, and says that if even at first he felt insecure all his worries were easy ereased the moment he defended him (and in some way he also defended the other Marc) that he knows he would never think like that, that he was sad for the other version of himself for being so easy abandoned, but at the same time was immensely grateful and happy to live in THIS universe with HIM, with HIS Nathaniel who would never do such a thing to him.

And the moment is just to intimate, and fluffy, and Nathaniel is still angry with that idiot version of himself, seriously how could he has the luxury and the idiocity to abandon someone like Marc?

And he still has the need to assure Marc that he would never even think of leave him. So he ends confessing his feelings for him, because the thought of Marc ever thinking that he would abandon him, or that he means nothing to him scares him more than a rejection.

Luckly for him, Marc feels the same, he loves him too, and the creative duo have never been happier before. They become boyfriends and there is a very cute and romantic kiss. Once they break the kiss they see the ladybugs cleaning the mess, and they know things are back to normal, no more idiotic versions of their friends. But now things are a little better because they are together and know that no force, not in their universe or other, would break them apart.

Bonus: after the mess is cleaned, Alya notices that indeed, she never fact checked Lila's claims, the class do so, and discovered that she is in fact a liar, and they are angry because she got Mari expelled, and now that they think about it some of the things she said about Marinette were to make them think less of her, thanks god they never did, they just thought that Lila was exagerating or misunderstanding the situation, now they know better, they apologize to Mari and she forgives them.

Next day Lila comes to school everybody is acting different with her, they don't give her more attenttion, when she tells her lies there is no admiration, there is no prizes, no compliments, no awe. They just answer with "cool" or "good for you" or "oh"

Nathaniel and Alix are given her the cold shoulder, and even they glare at her sometimes. Nathaniel even changes seats and now he is sitting with Ivan. She tries prizing his comic but the moment she says Marc's name the artist sent her a glare so full of hate that she has to step back. She didn't try again, and Alix is clearly angry with her, so she doesn't try talk to her.

She tries the waterfalls and blame Marinette, of course that doesn't work, they just ignore her and even send angry glares TO HER.

During the class Lila is called to the Principal's office, the next thing they know is that there are some screams in Italian, Lila and her mother are in the class, she is forced to apologize, she is hard punished and sent back to Italy to a military school. Yeah, the guys had a talk with Damocles and Lila's mother after the incident.

Latter that day the art gang go to the art room, and Nathaniel and Marc arrive hand in hand and a blush in their faces (Marc's more dark than Nath's) the girls cheers for their friends and congrats them.

All of them go to their workplace, Nathaniel and Marc sit together, very close, that is not new, they have always sitting very close to each other, the new thing is that they can see them holding hands under the table, and Nathaniel pecks Marc in the temple, and then Marc reclines his head on Nathaniel's shoulder. And they work like that.

The girls squeals in the background because of how cute they are. Even Alix.

And they are just happy that something good came from that horrible encounter yesterday.

Into the Saltverse

This is inspired by the fic on here where a horrified Alya meets the salt version of herself.

While the Miraculous class deals with their own salt versions, this prompt focuses on Lila dealing with hers. Lila is stuck dealing with salt!Lila and the Lila role player. Canon Lila is having trouble keeping salt!Lila under control. Canon Lila fears if she lets salt!Lila go free, her behavior will cause the classmates to wants to google the lies to reassure themselves’ of Lila’s “kindness.” (Also, maybe she told people she’s in another country right now.)

Salt!Lila wants to meet with their classmates. She doesn’t care if they’re the salt versions or not. The girl has the subtly as a brick. Wants to make plans with their classmates to bully Marinette. How salty salt!Lila behaves is up to you.

While Lila has her hands full with salt!Lila, she doesn’t try to keep a handle on the Lila role player too much as this salt version seems to actually care about keeping up the lies. Because canon Lila doesn’t spend too much time talking to the Lila role player, she doesn’t realize the Lila role player is a huge troll. Even when she’s caught, no matter how bad it is, she denies reality. Thus leading to loud one sided screaming matches with the more heated citizens.

[imsparky2002]

My feelings about Canon Nathaniel

Nathaniel Kurtzberg's canon self is not someone I support. I find his design and concept great, but the execution is horrible. While Nath is usually in the background, anytime he does appear has been either forgettable or unpleasant to watch.

He never apologizes to Marc or Marinette for his actions in Evillustrator or Reverser

He can be incredibly nasty when he feels wronged, as seen by ripping up Marc's notebook and never saying sorry for it. All he says is that he "might have jumped the gun". MIGHT?! Yeah that's an understatement!

He draws his classmate Marinette without her permission, in situations where she is in love with his self-insert. Even creepier when you consider that Marinette's dad is a self-insert for Thomas Astruc and Sabine is based off of a real life woman he had a crush on.

He spends all this time saying how much he wants to be a superhero but when Ladybug finally gives him an opportunity? He initially turns her down. WTF, Nathaniel, I thought this was your dream? Oh wait, it's because you don't like playing on a team. Sorry, Nathaniel, you can't be the center of the universe.

He doesn't show any interest in Marc's passions about soccer, and gets Marc to make an excuse for him. Nath, don't use your boyfriend like that!

In general, Canon Nath feels like a "nice guy", someone who mopes about being a lone wolf and acts like the whole world is out to get them, all while being a creep and jerk.

Side note, his English VA is a creep. Also the only time he's sorta tolerable is when him and Marc suddenly become Adrinette obsessed stans. Speaking of which, I do find Canon Marc's personality change from Season 2 to Season 4 to be kinda jarring, but overall he's much better than Canon Nath. Fanon Nath? He's cool, he's awesome. Canon Nath?, fuck that guy. Canon Marc deserves better.

Make sure to reblog and lemme know what u think in replies.

@artzychic27 @msweebyness