#canon! marc doesn't deserve canon! nathaniel

[imsparky2002]

Talking with Thomas - Evillustrator

A privilge that cast members of Miraculous Ladybug got was that they got to have discussions with their creator, Thomas Astruc. They could give compliments on the writing, or give critiques to the script. The kid that was speaking to Thomas today was Nathaniel. “Evillustrator” was his first big episode, a huge opportunity for someone who had barely any lines and didn’t really stand out from the other boys, aside his red hair. He was shocked and pleased when he heard he’d be turned into an akuma, but then he got a look at the script, which is what sent him to talk with Thomas. The meeting started well enough, with Thomas welcoming him with a warm smile.

“Ah, Nicholas! Have a seat.” he said.

“Actually, I-It’s Nathaniel, sir.” Nathaniel reminded. Thomas just shrugged it off. “Well, first off, I just wanted to say thank you for giving me an akumatized episode. Really honored.” Astruc just nodded in appreciation.

“Well of course, Nemanja!”

“Nathaniel.”

“Whatever. We’re on our way to giving every member of Marinette’s class a chance to shine, and you just happened to be next on the list.” Thomas replied. At this point, Nathaniel rocked back in forth in his chair, uneager to reveal his complaints.

“Well, that’s the thing, Mr. Astruc. I looked at the script and-” he was cut off.

“It’s great, right! Some of our best work if I do say so myself. The design and powers are so unique, so fitting of an artist such as yourself.” Thomas gushed.

“Y-yes, I do like the powers, even if they are a little OP.” Nathaniel muttered. “No, my problem is with the motivation.”

“Motivation? What, you mean the reason you get akumatized? You know nobody cares about that junk, right? All that matters is we get to see them become a cool monster.” Thomas said, clearly not giving a rats ass about how important motivation truly was. Nathaniel took a deep breath and just let it all out.

“I come off like a creep in this episode.”

Thomas raised his eyebrows, looking at Nathaniel as if he had grown two heads.

“What are you on about?” he asked.

“Well, sir. In the beginning, I’m fantasizing and writing a comic where a self-insert superhero saves Marinette, and she falls in love with him.” Nathaniel stated. Thomas just blinked in response.

“It’s real-person fanfiction! I didn’t ask for Marinette’s consent, I objectify her in the comic, just make her the damsel-in-distress to be saved by my OC. My character feels that it doesn’t matter if his love interest consents to being drawn in his fantasies. That’s really messed up.” Nathaniel argued.

“He’s just daydreaming, that’s all. It’s not like he’d act upon it.” Thomas defended, earning a look of bewilderment from Nathaniel.

“But it doesn’t matter. This is a show for kids, right? We shouldn’t be teaching them that it’s ok to do stuff like this. If we’re writing my character to have a crush on Marinette, it should be sympathetic. We should root for this guy, not feel like we’re watching a “nice guy” coping with being alone by having shower arguments and writing Mary Sue fics on AO3!”

“To be honest, I have no idea what any of those words mean.” Thomas admitted.

“Look, I like that Evillustrator is cordial to Marinette and all, but remember, she’s only doing it so he won’t destroy the city. Can’t we at least have Nathaniel apologize to Marinette for putting her through such a thing? Not just the akuma stuff, but all the creepy shit he was doing with his characters.” Nathaniel pleaded.

“Come on, Nardwuar”

“NATHANIEL!”

“Gesundheit. You know we don’t do apologies for most characters, unless it’s Marinette.”

“You know what. Fine. I’ll do the episode, but I’ll make sure that everyone else in the cast knows how much I hated it.”

“We really don’t care. Do what you want.”

Nathaniel stormed out, but came back for a second.

“Two more things. One, I don’t like Marinette in that way, I have a boyfriend named Marc, who you still haven’t given any screentime to. Second, we all know you named Sabine after a girlfriend, and that you named Marinette’s dad after yourself. Marinette exists to be your virtual child, and she finds that apalling. You’re a fucking creep, sir.”

“Whatever, see you on set, Nathaniel.”

“AHA! So you do remember my name!”

And there you have it. I plan on doing this sort of thing with other characters as well. I really can’t stand what the show’s become, and I’m only a casual watcher! I’ve always been bothered by Nathaniel’s first episode, not to mention that he was pretty much forgotten about until Reverser, only because Marc liked him and was akumatized. Come to think of it, I actually don’t really like Canon!Nathaniel. His design is neat, but whenever the focus is on him, he just comes across as a “nice guy”, impulsive, manipulative (Penalteam), guy with anger issues (Reverser). A shame because whenever he’s not the focus, he seems like a chill guy. I still love Fanon Nathaniel, he’s my baby. You can thank @artzychic27 for giving me a love for Nath and Marc. Check out their work as BooksRBetterThanPeople on AO3. @artzychic27 @msweebyness 

[justanotherpersonsuniverse]

1st of all, amazing chapter cap. I woke up from a nap to see the email telling me it updated and it was amazing.

2nd, fuck you. How dare you not tell us who Grim is, I feel betrayed. But like also great story telling, kagami wouldn't know who the fuck they are because shes not around much. But still, fuck you.

3rd, early congrats on 1k kudos for Panthera, you deserve it. Your writing is amazing and you deserve all the kudos on ao3.

Alright I'm done with the numbers ima start theorizing now.

The identity of Grim

So my first point is that Kagami didn't know who they were, or at least not their name. This eliminates the gang(we sorta knew it wasn't any of them, but I kept them in mind because idk what kinda shit you were gonna pull), and Luka. Obviously it's not Marinete and Adrien because dramatic irony and shit so that leaves a few people.

Namely; Ivan, Mylene, Max, Kim, Nathaniel, Rose, Marc, Mireille, and Lila.

Ima start by eliminating a few of these.

Kagami never had a chance to meet or see Lila, I doubt it's her.

I doubt Kagami wouldn't know Rose's name. With how much the rest of the game makes fun of Juleka and now much Rose would talk about Juleka, Kagami definently would have picked up the girl's name.

Similarly, I think Mylene can be eliminated in a similar fashion. Kagami hangs around Marinette in cat form a lot and, going by Marinette's character, Marinette totally would have told this cat about her little best friend's squad. Kagami also would have seen pictures of Mylene(and Rose) around Marinette's room and probably learned their names. So I think I can safely eliminate Mylene(and rose again)

Reverser happens after queens battle, so nobody except Marinette has met Marc yet, so I think he can be safely eliminated.

The Grim's saying 'spooky spooky ghost realm' makes me think it's not Max, he doesnt talk like that. Also I doubt he would get excited like that when Kagami said that they were friends.

The fact that Grim knows Luka eliminates Mireille. Mireille wouldn't know Luka, or most of the class.

So, my final list of possibilities is Ivan, Kim, and Nathaniel.

I personally cant see it being Ivan. It doesn't make any sense to me, plus it would destroy my theory of Ivan and Mylene having some magical shenanigans going on together. Ima set ivan aside since I personally dont think its him. I have no evidence to back this claim, I simply dont think it makes sense story wise.

Kim is a possibility, but I think his general vibe denies him being 'psychopomp doggo to the Eternal Graveyard'. That's just my opinion though and I have no evidence to support or deny him being Grim.

Nathaniel, out of the final 3, seems like the most likely. Man looks tired and traumatized, maybe from seeing so many dead kids. He would also totally get a little excited at a new friend because the boy's kinda lonely, especially with his bestie Alix constantly hanging out with her totally-not-werewolf-girlfriend Chloe so often. But I still think he's the Haunted so idk.

Ok so none of the final options make sense, so lets go back to the ones I eliminated.

Starting with Max, he is injured I'm the miracuclass artwork you posted and Grim was just injured. Also his personality would totally fit a graveyard psychopomp creature. However, as I said before, the speach patterns dont match up.

Mylene is a possibility because my elimination method for her was full of assumptions and guesses and could be totally wrong. But also shes a sniveling coward and I doubt she could fight an evil spirit while guiding a dead kid to a graveyard without bursting out into tears and running away and Grim seemed supremely chill with the whole dead kid thing. So lets leave Mylene alone for now.

Rose, seemingly the most obvious choice and therefore totally is not Grim. While her irises look white in the miracuclass artwork and the grape ice cream thing in the date chapter happened, I think these are both red herrings. In the new chapter Kagami says the Grim had human eyes after they undoggified(is that the word?). Implying that their eyes looked normal, no supernatural aspects about them. Also the grape ice cream thing must be a total red herring because, its Rose of course she would be distressed by cute doggies dying. Also the rebirth grape thing is probably the better clue for what Rose is, but ima not get into that right now.

That's it, that's all I got. This ask got really long.

So in conclusion; it's not Rose, Max, Marc, Lila, or Mireille. Everyone else is up in the air. I have no idea. Cap is playing jedi mind tricks on us. Someone free our souls from this frog's grasp.

That's it, analysis over.

Let me make this worse for you

Kagami does know the Grim’s name now and who they are, sorry for the confusion for a line that might’ve said other wise, Kagami has met them, Kagami has a name for them now.

Mylene isn’t a coward neither here nor in canon, she’s just socially shy.

And as I quote from my Traits post “Like I don’t think I’d write this in into the fic but when drawing like-” meaning I wouldn’t acknowledge these consistent traits outright in the fic but when drawing they’d be there.

Hope this makes things worse for you! :D

[nobodyfamousposts]

which kids in the class are more likely to (at the very least passively) support marinette or give her the benefit of the doubt? As much as it is not likely to happen (properly) in canon I really want to see some happiness for our girl. She doesn't deserve this crap.

Given what we’ve seen in canon (and including Chameleon despite how much I don’t want to), I have to say it would be:

Alix - easily overlooked, but she was the one to defend Marinette in Reverser when Nathaniel thought she and Marc were pranking him. That suggests she knows the type of person Marinette is and wouldn’t be so easily fooled. Also bear in mind her interaction with Marinette in Timebreaker. Marinette made the banner mostly for HER. And when her watch broke, Marinette prioritized consoling her over the cake. It was pointed out that she even avoided touching Marinette when she was closer to her in favor of going after the other members of the class.

Nathaniel - He previously jumped the gun in Reverser and assumed the worst of her only to be proven wrong. His old crush on her aside, he and Marinette are both part of the Art Club and seem to have at least some interaction because of that. I also figure that as an artist, he would be more easily overlooked by Lila compared to the more notable and outgoing members of the class.

Juleka - Marinette helped her out with the photo curse and has been spending time with her when hanging with Kitty Section. After seeing Marinette stick up for her in that AND Silencer, she’d know Marinette is a good person who stands up for others and will speak up if she thinks something is wrong. I’d see her being quiet, but still pretty positive towards Marinette despite Lila’s tactics.

Rose - She loves everybody. We’ve called Adrien the Sunshine Child, but Rose is the true bundle of positivity who sees the best in people. Plus again, Kitty Section. She knows full well Marinette supported them in more ways than she really had to.

Max - He might buy into Lila’s lies, but Marinette was the one he turned to for help when Markov was taken and she went so far as to get herself in trouble to do it. He would be the one to note the probability of whatever Lila’s claims are against Marinette and look for more data at the very least—napkins aside. Plus I’d imagine Markov would pick up on the false information sooner or later.

Alya - She may believe Lila’s lies, but I honestly believe that she would try to support Marinette regardless rather than turn on her outright. She may try to convince Marinette that Lila isn’t as bad as she thinks, but she wouldn’t outright abandon her and bully her.

[imsparky2002]

My feelings about Canon Nathaniel

Nathaniel Kurtzberg's canon self is not someone I support. I find his design and concept great, but the execution is horrible. While Nath is usually in the background, anytime he does appear has been either forgettable or unpleasant to watch.

He never apologizes to Marc or Marinette for his actions in Evillustrator or Reverser

He can be incredibly nasty when he feels wronged, as seen by ripping up Marc's notebook and never saying sorry for it. All he says is that he "might have jumped the gun". MIGHT?! Yeah that's an understatement!

He draws his classmate Marinette without her permission, in situations where she is in love with his self-insert. Even creepier when you consider that Marinette's dad is a self-insert for Thomas Astruc and Sabine is based off of a real life woman he had a crush on.

He spends all this time saying how much he wants to be a superhero but when Ladybug finally gives him an opportunity? He initially turns her down. WTF, Nathaniel, I thought this was your dream? Oh wait, it's because you don't like playing on a team. Sorry, Nathaniel, you can't be the center of the universe.

He doesn't show any interest in Marc's passions about soccer, and gets Marc to make an excuse for him. Nath, don't use your boyfriend like that!

In general, Canon Nath feels like a "nice guy", someone who mopes about being a lone wolf and acts like the whole world is out to get them, all while being a creep and jerk.

Side note, his English VA is a creep. Also the only time he's sorta tolerable is when him and Marc suddenly become Adrinette obsessed stans. Speaking of which, I do find Canon Marc's personality change from Season 2 to Season 4 to be kinda jarring, but overall he's much better than Canon Nath. Fanon Nath? He's cool, he's awesome. Canon Nath?, fuck that guy. Canon Marc deserves better.

Make sure to reblog and lemme know what u think in replies.

@artzychic27 @msweebyness