#can't believe that the gay couple is the most normally written part in all of this like genuinly a pretty enjoyable romance all around huh

[serialgirlposter]

Love when i look something up and find a fucked up wikipedia entry about it

[deanwasalwaysbi]

Thinking About How This Wasn't Actually a Denial

But was it self preservation?

The year was 2013 and rather than a denial, Jensen said "Don't ruin it for everybody now."

What was the fan 'ruining' for everybody? The Con? or something else? So if I was a tinhatter - and sometimes I am - I might think about other tv shows from the past that were covertly queer and how they handled the question, were TV shows 'out'?

Mainstream shows like Bewitched, you know, shows that are so clearly straight, you can tell because... well. ... they never technically used the word 'gay'. ... witches honor

SPN Film Studies is Back in Session! Join Under the Cut for more on supernatural & the story about how Bewitched! came out of the Broom Closet

Bewitched aired from 1964-72, it's so old the first season was in B&W. The show starred Elizabeth Montgomery as Samantha, the strange housewife with a stranger secret. Her husband, Darrin, unwittingly married into the whole witchy family, from the now drag icon Agnes Moorehead's Endora with her open marriage, to the unmarried and batty Aunt Clara (Marion Lorne who played the mother in Hitchcock's heavily gay coded 'Strangers on a Train'), to the extremely coded Uncle Arthur (gay actor Paul Lynde). (We can't know for sure, but it seems at least 4 members of the cast were gay themselves.) The core premise of the show involves Samantha balancing who she really is with repressing that self for the safety and comfort of her family.

Samantha and her husband keep her [ahem] 'queer' nature a secret which gets harder on Samantha when she has to tell her daughter to live the same way, “I know what fun it is to be a part of the magical life ... to have so much at your fingertips. But we’re living in a world that’s just not ready for people like us, and I’m afraid they may never be. So you’re going to have to learn when you can use your witchcraft and when you can’t.”

There are plenty of generic 60s wacky hijinks but there are also whole episodes metaphorically about repression being harmful, episodes where characters asked if another was a 'thespian', episodes where Darrin was queercoded while under a spell, episodes about representation & bad stereotyping in media, and even two episodes where witches discussed whether it was time for witches to come out to the mortals, (whether mortals could accept that they were just nice normal people trying to live their lives like everybody else - or not - and would just freak out and kill them again).

When it came time to recast Dick York's Darrin with a new 2nd lead, Elizabeth and her husband, William Asher, knowingly cast the gay Dick Sergeant. (Although he wasn't out publicly at the time.) Then, when Sergeant came out in '91, Montgomery supported him and the two served together as the grand marshals of the Hollywood pride parade.

Dick Sargent expressed in the 90s what he would want in a Bewitched reunion episode: for Darrin to meet another like couple, a witch and a mortal who are married, and another, and another, and end up forming a whole community and support group, finding out that it was never so uncommon after all, that it was actually "about 10% of the population." The two would march in the first mortals and witches pride parade, saying they should have come out years ago.

In '94, Montgomery had this to say about the queer themes of the show, “Don't think that didn't enter our minds at the time. We talked about it on the set, that this was about people not being allowed to be what they really are. If you think about it, Bewitched is about repression in general and all the frustration and trouble it can cause. It was a neat message to get across to people at that time in a subtle way.” (x)

Interviewer: Are you concerned that your involvement in the gay-pride parade will lead people to believe you're a lesbian?

"[Laughing] I'm really not worried about that. There are bigger things to worry about. Like the presidential election and finding a cure for AIDS. I did the parade in support of Dick. I mean, in the end, didn't we all?" (x) (Montgomery was also one of the first celebrity allies to fight for LGBTQ rights and support HIV/AIDS-related fundraisers.)

So did they talk about it at the time? No. You can bet they didn't speak about it publicly. What would have happened if a fan, publicly, had asked Elizabeth, William, or Dick about the show's queer allegory content? This was a time when being gay was a literal felony. They would have had to have lied or risked losing the show, their careers, and possibly subjecting themselves to violence.

Now. back to Jensen and the Schrodinger's long con:

This was in 2013 - The same year that the Supreme Court of the United States struck down a federal ban on gay marriage. You certainly couldn't call homosexuality illegal in the US at that time. It's the same year that Dabb and Sgriccia spoke about the Aaron moment on the DVD and whether there's 'this potential for love in all places' for Dean. Of course Jensen said this about the very same scene: "But it was - you know - it was comedy. It was a comedic moment in the show and fortunately Dean gets a lot of the comedic moments in the show and it was just, you know, Ben was poking fun at the fact that - you know, how can we make this very kind of manly, heterosexual guy uncomfortable - uh -you know, or  or have him back on his heels and throw him off his game a little bit.”

I'm reminded of 2012 when Ben Edlund stepped in about a Destiel question at comic con, pretending it was some freaky thing that fans had made up even though he'd already written and directed TMWWBK, which had already aired.

Jensen: “What’s Destiel?” Ben Edlund: That’s some weird shit. Jensen: Is this something that you created, Ben? Ben: You don’t want any part of that.

Or the next year for season 9 when Jensen said “I think the whole Cas and Dean thing has gotten out of hand”  “I don’t think there’s anything secret to their relationship even though a lot of people wish there was” EVEN THOUGH- that season we got the nightstands acknowledgement and Misha (or both of them?) was told to “play him like a jilted lover”

Or Jensen's knowing bromance smile in 2015

I think recent events (cough spn gate) have made clear that the network and many viewers were still uncomfortable with CAS being gay in 2020, deleting even familial mentions of Cas from the finale episodes once he was revealed to be not only gay but also in love with Dean. (x) (x) (x) Can you imagine then what Warner Brothers would have said to an acknowledge bisexual Dean Winchester in 2013? Granted, there was no Trump election, but legitimate, could that have been the end of the show? Or the Russian and Conservative US viewership? Is it possible that Jensen would have feared so?

Is it possible that Jensen had a more personal reason for a knee jerk defensive response?

So was Jensen covering in 2013? Well. This happened 5 years later in 2018:

That hostile "? No." came even though Misha confirmed that he and Jensen had discussed Destiel by that point. Granted, discussing Destiel as a concept and accepting Dean being inherently bisexual are two very different things - Cas is GN after all - still, less than encouraging.

I may never get over the jumps back and forth that Jensen did. At this point I think there's no denying that a lot of SPN's queer content was on purpose, even as writers and actors were telling fans and network execs otherwise. Yet when each person involved was brought in? that question haunts me at night. I have gone off before about the timeline in my pursuit of whether Jensen was Ben Hur'd (x) and, if so, for how long. I'm sure many in this fandom have so much to add.

In the meantime we'll just have to cherish this moment from 2019:

Interviewer: 'So, tell us just a little bit about what you’re most excited to tackle with your character this final season.’ Jensen: “Cas. Just like a full football form tackle.”

Bewitched references in SPN:

2.05 - Dean: Well, it looks like he can't work his mojo just by twitching his nose, he's gotta use verbal commands.

2.20 - Dean says Barbara Eden was hotter than Elizabeth Montgomery - sigh - Dean.

7.05 - Dean thinks a husband has no idea his wife is a witch, and refers to him as Darrin. Dean also indicates he likes the first Darrin better. - (I guess I can't make a comment about how much TV Dean watched as a kid if I get all of his references and also haven't saved the world.)

14.03 - Jules refers to the witch as 'Brunhilde' - this is a minor character in bewitched but more so from mythology and likely referred to the cartoon witch from WB cartoons - the stereotypical witch that faced bugs bunny with the green skin and straw hair.

let me know if you have any to add. Stay Witchy ✌

[misterbitches]

some thots. having a bad time so this is rougher than usual. oh well

....

i guess he really does know hiim best cos if that was my mans (man specifically cos if anyone else did that id take it more srsly) i would be like oh my god ur singing me a love song? i would love it but i woudl SCREAM in embarrassment. UNLESS it was a really deep love song that's about us dying together.

like i want to eat ur skin type of thing (drain u nirvana) lmaoa but i really like this song it reminds me of that velvet underground song (the only one i know cos of juno lmao) and nico or whatever 'i'm sticking with you)

my adhd would be out of fucking control i had to spend my time listening to this looking around i kept getting distracted by a tissue and thinking "wow this song is nice but i wish it would end bc i am getting distracted" and lo and behold i paused it and i have to pee and i know it's gonna take forever to undo this

ok about 12m later i turned it back on and they kissed and then he bit the corn then that night li chen also lost his virgin teas after watching gay porn and being like "hm interesting" and he'll be like "i see, ur dick is not medium sized"

i'm honestly gagging i cannot at this 12 year old marrying his mom

beautiful theyre beautiful

ayea you fucking psycho we do too because he was 17 and we had to witness it (or well, other people did cos i didnt watch the show even tho wayne song is [BEEEEEEEEEEEEEP BEEEEEP BEEEEP] and i want him to [BEEEEEEEP] and ppl even liked it which is fine like i get it in theory but they put this in my eyeballs so i'm gonna make fun of it bc it's fuckin DUMB lmao like i can't I CANNOT and he said "u were so persistent" BITCH UR 30??!?!???!?!?!?)capi hve it on mute and i tried to get a screencap of li chen and mu ren like together and not just his face but i cant find the timestamp and seeing their faces as they get married is literalyl traumattizing i'm like scremaing at my screen going "HE'S 5 HE'S 5 HE'S 5" and every time theyre like "we acn live forever together" like no bitch ur bones rae creaking

also is the officiator white? if anyone knows why or if that's common i'd love to know more. EDIT: HE ISN'T I JUST THOUGHT HE LOOKED LIKE MOBY FROM THAT ANGLE

anyway here

i'm almost done with this fucking bullshit and i am in a really ould mood and usu they make it a bit better but imo it's kind of....annoying i guess balancing all these story elements and introducin gother couples (even in the periphery) since the story in itself can't focus. i feel like all in all the time spent with these two is a lot more limited and we get the feel for the rship because of their chemistry as actors, irl chemistry as friends and colleagues, and hopefully being happy and working on a good set. so it isn't the strength of the writing or production.

for some reason they get like less dynamic ways of being together which i think is part of their charm, they do things their own way, but the writers really should have substantiated this more. it's really just the way everyone in the show has managed to deliver these AWFUL story lines and production decisions (like seriously who the fuck was on costume? lighting?)

like maybe hot take but all the moments that are cringe and insane in the show are not pleasant, per se, because they aren't thought out clearly. so they're not a joy to watch in the normal sense but the actors are good enough to pull it off. i didn't cringe at the talks they had because it felt like actors like acting these lines out instead of us being embarrassed for it and you CAN TELL theyre embarrassed.

this is a huge kudos to the casting director and the actors and whatever crew that actually did a good job. i don't particularly like watching bo xiang and his grandfather husband not because of the content but because i feel like, to me, they're so awkward even though they have chemistry. i don't have that issue with xing si and his rapist brother boyfriend because watching them is actually really pleasant, it's intimate. this isn't to do with the story though because when it hits you how devoid this other person is and how stupid the situation is it changes (for me, for me, for me, this is all my opinion think whateverrrr u want im not telling u 2 ok!)

so truly kudos to this cast. idk if i'm misremembering here but imo the most cast appropriate series in this was crossing the line and close to you. one is a decent atmosphere and execution (yes even with that brother story line, notice the major key differences though because that's a sincere false equivalence. they try to execute power imbalances soooo badly and then fail every time but here's one meant to shock too and it was just likelmao ok girl?)

it may not make sense to say either in a writing way or for the character to do it but i believe that whoever the characters these people are supposed to be especially those super not well written on the page still get that message aacross (yong jie's actor is a good ex. not sure if i should ccongratulate him for having the worst job on earth and the worst character and his character is flat but. ostensibly they should let their actions speak for themselevs but what they do is they back themselves into a ccorner with unsuretyabout their characters or a dilemma that pops up they just want to excuse it. well guess hwat u couldnt do enough legwork. but to some extent the disposable side couple works here on a um "our eyes see them and get it" way

also to me it seems like they chose this story just to have this specific wedding. like it's a timely topic and i'm pretty sure like another provision? (correction? idk) was made WRT taiwanese same-sex marriage so it's topical but it isn't like a "papa and daddy" situation where they're interacting in it and there (for ex: the pride parade) and there being like real life terms and consequences. here it seems like they were like ah yes wedding ah yes dumb couple from modc bc we kiled off the other one sooooo (then outsource them to life love on the line u__u) then hamfisting in some fucking message which is funny bc

- despite the hints peppered in and the clear attraction they both acknowledge ur like ~not gay just him~ even tho...i mean i just. again they dont read over what they write i don't think considering. but wahtever.

- the only gay dude (verbally said) is with his rapist brother with an awful power dynamic oh or IS a rapist (gao) (or his brother but i think it was just a "im a psycho so it's him" thing unless they said it. in which case idc cos i wasnt paying attn but that's also not great) or i guess the wedding but like....that's also a ridiculously inappropriate and dumb relationship taht it's built on. i mean i don't really see much respect her so i dont particularly want to hear abt gay weddings being important when they didn't even utilize it in the story beforehand and have we ever. this is a huge indication to me that it was a reverse engineered chosen story beforehand (if it was one) or thought of

soooooo

so reversal of that....it didnt give us enough time to breathe with these two at all but for both of the actors they can capitalize what's on the page and the writers didn't. like their dynamic is very i give/you give like taking car eof each other etc that's why

again, no artist worth their salt will ever say their work meant nothing. that's a cover up. i'm sick of lazy production and then getting away with it claiming being subversive or attacking an issue by not doing anything. we show crazy shit all the time but it has a POINT and ur point is "i like the gays" then girl.....i mean it's not great

but the acting really carried it. i have a feeling if this series continues it might continue to use more experienced actors cos maybe the budget goes up but they also have less inhibitions now when it comes to acting. i like the way li chen expresss himself and teng teng too. i like anson a lot and there's some angles that did not do any favors and i think eh has to get more control of his body movements (bc he's SO LARGE and thin) but he wasn't bad at all and there were real human tears. of course i, personally, favor charles tu. he has more control over his body because he has...less to work with and he's a bit bigger and he was really great in this role. he's a himbo a bit of a meathead but you like him. you like them. there's some things i think they had them say and do that they wouldn't let happen if they stuck to the characters and the story (mainly liking that dumb idiot rapist)

what i notice is that the reprehensible actions people criticize others for in the show and in real human life lalways gets turned around. teng teng being surprised that this boy's grandfather boyfriend met him when he was a junior in high school and he's 12 years older and him apologizing for being shocked and then whatshisface going "ur better at it than most people" and then the convo about gao with whatshisface and then rapist brother comes to pick him up. they are admonishing gao but thinking that rapist brother is noble for doin gwhat he did (and oh rapist brother shows up) like the hypocrisy and the decisions are immense. so now it's like "guys see he's a great guy" like girl STICK TO SOMETHING but whatever so i live in this universe where muren and li chen do everything right and have lots of different interesting fun seex with all their friends. i would write this but i cannot i am dying

[the-amalgam-house]

With everything that's been happening irt family and finances, I've been in a horrible depressive episode for what feels like many months now. Maybe it's only been a couple, idk, but it seems longer. I had to drop D&D again indefinitely and it's just. Like I know I don't have the mental capacity for it but it still bums me out, you know?

I asked my mom how everyone is doing over there after the last incident and she says it's not too bad, kinda stressful but things look to be working out. She also told me to put my trust in God and pray, as she always does. Even after I've made it clear that I'm not a Christian anymore, she still tries. Which I'm not like mad at but I'm really not ready for any type of major religion or whatever, and especially not the one that caused me the most sorrow and trauma.

I don't NOT believe in God. In fact I believe that all gods do exist. Maybe not all on the same plane of existence, but they do all exist in some form, beyond normal human perception. But the church and the beliefs of the people are what burned me. And technically that one isn't god's fault, it's human being human and showing their capacity for evil. It's mistranslations and personal bias being written into religious law by self-righteous god-kings and pastors/deacons/wannabe saints...etc. It's how humans set up the religion and told everyone it's God's will that really fucked me up. It's those people who hurt my friends and family so badly they never want to believe in anything beyond ourselves because something having that much power over humanity is terrifying and infuriating when all you want is to be left alone in peace.

I guess I still get a little mad. I've asked her not to get preachy at me before when I was really angry. I know she does it with good intentions, but I still roll my eyes when I'm told I should pray about it and show reverence to a god that people always told me would send me to hell just for being me. A vindictive and jealous war monger who shuns anyone who's a little different and tells their followers that their children are better off dead than living in sin. A very "do as I say, not as I do" mindset that never did come off as the type of deity that encompasses "love" but demands it through fear.

I'm tired of hearing it. I'm tired of being told that's the only way. I'm tired of trying to justify my existence and my worthiness to some man-made version of a "kind" and "loving" god who, according to his followers, has already deemed me an abomination destined to eternal torture. For what? What in my entire life could I have possibly done to deserve that? People who commit the worst global scale atrocities known to all creatures on the planet are praised as godly and just people, but a truly kindhearted human who just happens to be trans or gay or mentally ill in an undesirable way has to face utter destruction and despair into infinity? All while those corporate greed CEO oil drilling slave labor capitalist literal taint cheese manifested into a wicked simulacrum of a parody of a human are allowed to rise to idol status and sainthood in the eyes of the church.

I want absolutely ZERO part of that. I don't even want to be remotely associated with that by proxy. I want it so fucking far away from me and my life except I have to live in it, wading up to my nostrils in the fucking doo-doo swamp that is American Christian capitalist culture. The denomination doesn't matter, they're all fucked up. Baptists, Presbyterians, Protestants, Catholics, Mormons, Witnesses, there's like a thousand of them I can't remember them all and any time a sect tries to be any kind of progressive in any way the vast majority condemns them as not being real Christianity and just...

Like fuck off. Fuck off forever. Most humans don't deserve to suffer but the idea that one day there will be no more humans is somewhat soothing tbh. Fifth or sixth mass extinction event happening cause of these rich white cis straight greedy mega church evangelical tech bro assholes not giving a shit about the planet and the people and creatures on it.

Please I hate being here so much. I hate money. I hate mainstream Christian culture. I hate the nuclear family model. I hate technology enabling crypto bros and art theft. I hate that all our amazing technological advancements are all put to use in war and suppression instead of healthcare and infrastructure. I hate everything about this country and the state of the world currently and please I don't want to BE here anymore!!!