#can we agree to disagree?

[dasketcherz]

i'm sorry but Cassandra, a fully grown ass adult, getting off scot-free and getting to go out in the world immediately after committing all that shit in S3 without so much as at least a year time in jail will never not leave a bad taste in my mouth

Cuz like, Eugene almost got sentenced to death by hanging for, what, petty thief???? while absolutely zero for her despite leaving corona in literal ruins ??? yeh right sure

idc if one was extreme to heighten the stakes for the movie, and the other one just gets a slap on the wrist cuz "the punishment is not the point" because in-universe, thats just fucked up and fuckin unfair

So yeh, I personally prefer to think gurl was actually permanently banished from Corona and is not allowed to so much as step foot on coronian soil like thats the bare minimum on the justice system's part ig

[avelera]

Ugh, sorry, one last political point because it’s the day for it and this is bugging me.

Democrats and people on the left in the US have got to knock it off with this whole, “All Trump voters are obviously stupid” thing.

I’m sure it’s satisfying to believe, but it is simply not true, and making assumptions about your opponents that aren’t true is how you lose elections.

Half of the voting population of this country is not stupid and it is ludicrous to insist on believing that. Trump voters include doctors, lawyers, business owners, people with PhDs and graduate degrees, and people who attend college courses for fun. They are, unfortunately for many of us including yours truly, our parents and relatives and I at least know for a fact in those cases that they are well educated, well traveled people.

Assuming these people are just stupid and uninformed is, in fact, stupid. It a simplistic view of the world that is going to make your platforms lose if you embrace it and refuse to look deeper.

In practice, people engage in politics because they want the greatest happiness and prosperity for the largest number of people that they care about.

Everything after that is just haggling over price.

For example, the Left/Democrats might believe that the great amount of happiness and prosperity is brought to the largest number of people they care about when an advanced degree is available to everyone without leaving them in crippling debt, when people can age with social services that allow them dignity, when billionaires and companies cannot exploit their workers, and when peace and just causes are allowed to flourish around the world, including the education and enfranchisement of women, and the long term health of our planet. I personally believe that brings long term prosperity to us all.

Left and Right wing voters right now both probably agree that everyone is happier and more prosperous if they can afford a house and have a job that covers their needs and then some. How to get to that is the sticking point that they disagree on.

Right wing voters also want prosperity for themselves and those they care for and what they disagree on with the Left is how to achieve that. I’m not going to go into their platforms here because the whole point of this post is not assuming things about your opponents.

Now in order to persuade people to hold more Left leaning views, you need to make the case for why what you care about is a thing that they should care about and, more importantly, how it enhances the happiness and prosperity of them and those they care about.

Otherwise, you are asking them to vote against their own interests, which no one engages in politics to do, at least not on purpose (even if it is the ultimate outcome in many cases).

If you don’t care about making this argument to opposite side, then fine, you’ve already lost and you deserve to keep losing elections.

You deserve to lose because you’re not making a case for why anyone should support your causes in order to gain happiness and prosperity for themselves and those they care about, including expanding the field of people they care about, and it is ludicrous to expect people to do that without being persuaded either intellectually or emotionally.

This is what finding common ground and building coalitions is about, even if you don’t agree on every point. And if you self isolate and stick to your purity, you deserve to lose because politics is about how we govern large groups of people towards a common goal that, ultimately, is best simplified as the goal of their greatest happiness and prosperity.

Good faith politics is negotiating over what that means. Because resources are finite we can’t all get everything we want all at once. And not everyone agrees on everything so you need to prioritize the best possible allotment of happiness and prosperity for the short and long term, and that’s when we get into the nitty gritty of all the horse trading that happens in politics etc etc.

And you get into things like billionaires having outsized ability to enact their own happiness and prosperity but here’s the thing, many people especially on the right go along with those views because they believe (rightfully or not) that those goals will increase their own happiness and prosperity as well and if you don’t agree you’ve got to explain to them intellectually or emotionally why that is and provide and alternate platform or path for them to gain it that is more effective by at least some measure of that value.

Anyway, at the risk of this becoming a political science thesis from someone who isn’t a political scientist, just an amateur academic, tl;dr please knock it off with assuming everyone who disagrees with you is stupid, it is a losing proposition and it doesn’t get us anywhere near the goals we want to achieve politically, ie, the greatest happiness and long term prosperity of the people we care about.

[bread-wizards]

I actually think Dorian and Orym should fight more.

Remember when their slowly building tension over and entire episode (full of passive aggressive remarks and blame throwing) led to threats? And how after, Orym thanked Dorian for handing over the crown sadly because he knew Dorian would be mad at him? And Dorian couldn't even look at him because he was legitimately hurt, thinking Orym was disappointed in him for doing what he thought was right? That was peak.

The fact they went from that to their current closeness and trust is the best part of their entire dynamic. Their relationship was hard fought and still will be. They will fight for it because they respect and care for one another deeply, and their disagreements don't change that, only improve it.

[sylvieserene]

Something weird I have noticed in the CRK fandom when it comes to ships ESPECIALLY Purelily

I recently saw a tweet on twitter talking about Elderlily and ShadowVanilla on how people should give new ships a shot instead of shooting down them down instantly which IS a valid point BUT the problem starts when they assert the fact that these two ships hold more "merit" and "intimacy" than "other ships" (which in comment section they directly agree it's aimed at Purelily)

This is a HUGE problem I see both in the Elderlily fanbase + ShadowVanilla fanbase. The sheer hate for Purelily.

Like have a look:

Pure Hatred and unwillingness to accept that opinions can co-exist.

Unwilling to see reason when tried to be shown. Only answering in hatred.

Further more...

From starting with generalising Purelily shippers to accusing all Purelily shippers to misinterpret/misrepresent/mischaracterisation PV and WL to accusations of the entire fanbase being bigoted, homophobic, misogynistic or accusing the entire fanbase of being bad including whataboutism posts stating "oh yeah? I wonder which shipper base sent actual death threats and doxxed someone?"

For the record, Im gonna say yes, a few people from specifically the purelily base have done these BUT generalising the entire shipping community as bad and labelling them as problematic is NOT okay.

THE ACTIONS OF ONE HORRIBLE PERSON DOESN'T DEFINE THE ENTIRE FANBASE!

Misrepresentation/Mischaracterisation/Misinterpretation of characters have happened in ALL of CRK shipping communities. That very much includes ShadowVanilla and Elderlily.

So accusing one fanbase of doing those and pretending that it doesn't exist in your space is kinda hypocritical I believe?

No fanbase is exempt from controversy. Every shipping space has had atleast ONE problematic individual (Eg: N*zi ShadowVanilla controversy from Twitter) but now if I start saying "*gasp* I wonder which base drew those horrific things?" Would it make any sense? No. Cuz one person doesn't define an entire fanbase.

So let's make one thing clear, none of the shipping communities are "pure" or "innocent" of anything. All of them have problems and individuals with issues depending on how far you're willing to dig.

So accusing a single shipping community of being horrible while saying others are not is not okay.

Not all ShadowVanilla and Elderlily shippers are good people, same as Purelily shippers.

Which brings me to the point, "It's 2025, grow tf up and stop shipping purelily" mentality which also brings me to my original point lol

These were sent to a purelily artist on Twitter (redbeanyearnin).

Their crime? Shipping purelily.

Look at the civility, ladies and gentlemen! /s

This is also a side of shippers who actually aren't purelily shippers 😊 how naive and innocent messages 😍❤️ /j

But this is the great evidence on how all of these shippers aren't angels. They are the same people accusing Purelily shippers and the ship itself as being horrible.

Im not gonna comment more on this.

But this just proves my point on how no shipping base is angelic. All of them have screwed up individuals.

Anw...

What does year/time have anything to say about what you ship? I see this comment thrown across very frequently in the fandom which does confuse me quite a lot but seriously um why? Is there some sort of subscription that's getting over in these recent years which denies me the right to enjoy something niche? Or I MUST ship what the popular ship is atm?

Just why....? Where does this mentality come from?

More importantly, why does one ship has to be "superior" or have to had more "merit" than the other?

Just why?

Why can't we simply accept our differences in preferences and move on?

Like...I personally don't ship mutual ShadowVanilla, I find the one sided part more compelling but that doesn't mean I will say it's "better" than the mutual one. I can appreciate the mutual one too. Same for Elderlily. I see it as platonic, a familial sort of relationship between a Mentor and Mentee or yes I'm gonna say it Father Daughter.

Personally, I find their age difference extremely uncomfortable which is why the moment I learnt this guy was older than her ancestor's ancestors, I shipped it as platonic. Same for ShadowVanilla cuz age is a factor for me personally but I won't blame others who look past it cuz firstly these are fictional characters and secondly, all of them are immortals so I can understand it although I find it uncomfortable myself.

But even with that, I would NEVER say that Purelily is "superior", has "more merit", better "intimate writing" than said ships irrespective of if they are popular/canon or not.

If you ask for respect towards your shipping preferences, the least you can do is GIVE that respect to others as well. If you don't, then how come you keep the expectation that your opinion will get respected when you can't peacefully co-exist with another part of the fandom who may hold different views than you?

In simpler words, I kinda find it highly disrespectful and hypocritical that some people out here can't keep themselves from attacking others for shipping things differently than them? Like...why?

Why can't we all ship whatever we want instead of shooting down each other's ships and calling one more superior/inferior than the other?

Like for me as an example, I don't like a lot of ships but I either don't share my opinion on it or tend to ignore it instead of going "omg MY ship better! HUH HOW DARE YOU SAY MY SHIP IS BAD"

At the end, Shipping is subjective and we're all here to have fun so instead of playing the blame game on who is worse, who has done more horrible things, why can't we simply focus on the positives?

All ships have merits and demerits. All of them have issues. Heck, even the characters aren't perfect and they also have a plethora of issues.

WL isnt a perfect person, she's morally grey and a highly complex character. PV isn't a baby or a simp who gets jealous everytime someone breaths in WL's direction. EF isn't obsessed with WL as people in the fanbase make him to be. Just like PV, he chose his job over following WL and even when he knew he had a choice to revive her, He didn't instead he kept guarding the tree. SM isn't a good person and has caused several wars, genocides, torture and murder.

NONE of them are as perfect as people make them to be. NONE of the fanbases if considered in majority truly get them.

So it really makes zero sense when ppl say "PV should stay the hell away from WL", "WL is getting between them!"

People really need to stop objectifying these characters just cuz they don't fit their shipping preferences/agendas.

All of these characters and their ships have certain merits and demerits to them so why must we say that one is better than the other?

Why can't we all enjoy what we simply like?

Why can't we just agree to disagree instead of shitting on other's tastes?

Why must ONE particular shipping fandom get the brunt of it?

So tldr, I just wanna say, While it is true, people shouldn't shoot down new things without even giving it a shot but that doesn't mean the new thing is "superior" than the old thing suddenly just cuz one likes it more. If you find it great, that's fine but Idt anyone has the right to say that one thing is more inferior than the other.

Please give the respect to others that you expect. If you get insanely defensive about your own ship but shit on other's shipping preferences then expect to get that back.

You can't be like "Nooooooo don't say bad about my ship! You're a hater" and then be like "damn your taste in shipping SUCKS. This ship is so trash. MY ship is SOOOOO much better :)"

Sorry for this rant. I just find the entire situation of the fandom highly frustrating.

[benrey-did-nothing-wrong]

i feel like all the benrey discourse is missing the point that scorpy went in, was silly, and left. that was benrey. that was the benrey experience. any attempt to understand benrey would require understanding the sick, twisted psychological labyrinth of scorpy's mind. i dont even think the hand gaslighting was intentional i just think scorpy actually zoned out for the entirety of hlvrai and went into a trance that made him roleplay as a mean gay guy.

[snekdood]

"if we make america worse and more of a dictatorship that will be even harder to unravel and make it the way we want the country to be, maybe then everyone will join our Glorious Revolution!" bb girl you cant even be in the same room with someone who thinks you should vote, how in tf do you think you're gonna unite people to fight in The Revolution with you? it's gonna be you and your 5 friends, i hate to break it to you.

[castiellesbian]

Supernatural was on so long in the hands of so many people with very differing views on the story they were telling that there is evidence in canon to support almost any interpretation.

[roseekara]

I swear, seeing people on twitter use the sweetest eulogies from Emily and JJ and twist them to support their ship by downplaying JJ and Will’s love is making my blood boil. I’m this close to making my private account public just to quote them. I respect all ships, but diminishing the characters' pain and rewriting their stories like that is just lame and cheap.

[princesskuragina]

Seniors, on Wednesday 5.14, please note that we are having you set-up your table and chairs for Graduation Party Saturday at 2pm.

[so-sick-of-17]

If this election goes badly, I will never forgive people who put their personal morals over the good of America. The system is flawed and we should criticize Kamala Harris, but we also need to prevent as much harm as we can. Not if, WHEN, Kamala Harris wins the election, we are allowed to breath a sigh of relief and get rid of the knot in our stomachs. We will not stop fighting but taking a minute to celebrate the little victories is the only way a lot of us can get through everything. We will continue to fight for Palestine and demand Kamala Harris do more, but we can appreciate that things aren’t going to get worse and that doesn’t make us selfish.

[kavalyera]

if u cant handle a simple disagreement then ur immature

[lokiusly]

I think that deep down Mobius couldn’t prune the two kids because he subconsciously knew— he felt like it would be like pruning his own children. He was a father and will always have that instinct, no matter how many times he was brainwashed.

[frownyalfred]

Your reaction to all of the Alfred asks is hilarious. Idk why but it feels like you're more of an interested spectator to all of these asks than a willing participant😂 (not a criticism btw in case it comes off like that)

Look -- and this isn't an invitation to send me the most whackadoodle things ever -- I try not to judge people for their (genuine) likes on here. Especially anonymous folks confessing certain pairings/kinks/etc. I might not be able to answer all of them, or reply in the way they want, but I'm not going to make them feel terrible for liking a certain thing.

I am indeed a spectator sitting on the sidelines, cheering for whatever pairing/idea/thing folks are horny about. You will never get me to yuck someone else's yum on here. Just because I'm not playing the game personally doesn't mean I can't sit in the stands and give a respectful nod when a point is scored.

[asweetersapphic]

y’all do realize that the statements “police brutality is abhorrent and never acceptable” and “i feel bad for caitlyn kiramman arcane in s2” are two statements/thoughts that can coexist, right?

[chaos-in-one]

Reminding y'all AGAIN not to call traumagenic systems who aren't anti endo, endogenic, because apparently the message did not get through the first time

When you do that, you are fakeclaiming the systems trauma. You are letting them know you do not believe that their trauma actually caused them to be a system.

Fucking. Stop it.

[strryhaze]

Hi!I wonder if it's offensive to ask about your personal view on the whole"Bobby x Ethel marriage and everything related"stuff?

Personally, I do like BobbyJackie but it felt really misogynistic once ppl starting to put on "birth machine" lables on Ethel, and ,frankly, to say that Rfk had only used her to reproduce as much as possible (in view of his Catholic faith) is to undermine his personality .

Guess the tabloids weren't doing a good job convincing me that rfk, a man known for his compassion,empathy,wisdom,and blunt kindness, could've pull such coolness toward his wife.

Granted,let's not ignore the rumors (or facts depending on one's own judgement)that point out Ethel's jealousy towards Jackie.Their relationship could hardly been called ideal and enmity stalked alongside the way.Needless to say, Ethel's infamous parenting skills shade her valor as an honorable person.

However, my point is that just because a woman had flawed personalities and wrongdoings (VERY BIG ONES)，misogyny is not okay. And "a birth machine who was constantly busting her ass to get pregnant" sounds rather harsh to any woman. Ethel Kennedy may be a bad example of appropriate parent but she still remains as a birth mother of rfk's 11 kids, I'd give her that. (TBH this also reminds me of Rose Kennedy.)

If ppl can acknowledge that jfk&Jackie were in love, isn't it only logical for them to respect Ethel&rfk's relationship a little more as well? I mean , Jack betrayed Jackie throughout their 10 years of relationship but Ethel was at least faithful.

No, I don't believe she owned rfk much,not in the sense of not fulfilling one's marital duties like Jack did. A dutiful and dull wife may very well signals the opposite of romantic attraction yet I found nothing more unfair to attack a woman simply because she was "too devoted to her husband."

To deny that rfk had spared any love to Ethel also sounds unmistakably weird🤔Human beings are complicated and love exist in a variety of forms.He was so into Jackie and he loves and respect the woman who had carried 11 kids for him(I happens to believe that pregnancy causes huge physical burden to any woman and whoever do so out of love deserves respect instead of insults).These facts can coexist isn't it?

heyyy not at all! tbh i love that you asked me this bc it’s rarely talked about anyway. and when it is, the whole situation is very much dismissively addressed when, in reality, i think there’s a lot of nuance to be considered toward the whole bobbyjackie subject and bobby & ethel’s marriage in relation to it.

i completely agree with your first point. anyone who tries to undermine ethel or even bobby by saying that giving him children was all that she was good for is gross and simply untrue. i do want to say that in the recent past, i myself have made jokes about being willing to give him the same amount of children lol or understanding ethel, but they have never been made to imply that that was the entire point of their marriage or that she was simply a “baby-making machine” as i’ve seen others describe her as; apparently even jackie was quoted calling her that, but if anything, i think that speaks to her own reserved bitterness & pain as a woman of her time who had stupid but normalized expectations placed on her that she felt she wasn’t fulfilling bc of the difficulties she’d had with jack in having children themselves. i imagine seeing bobby and ethel rapidly grow their family was like rubbing salt into the wound over and over again. so, i feel like a bit of envy may have been felt by Both parties for different reasons and at different times. however, over time, and even in those times, there seemed to have been a genuine mutual respect shared between both jackie and ethel. i mean, they suffered a lot of challenges and tragedies and managed to weather them with their sanity intact.

i also feel like people forget that having a lot of kids was the norm in the 60s, especially in religious families. sure, even bobby and ethel pushed it a little bit, but they had the money and resources to take care of all of them unlike most american families. and something i’ve always admired and that even his children have pointed out in interviews is that bobby was very involved and warm as a father — kerry herself used the example of don draper from mad men who was absent and hands-off with the children whenever he came home, which was typical of fathers in those times, and stated that her father swerved greatly from that type of cold fatherly behavior. evan thomas in his book wrote about a cuban refugee bobby befriended after the bay of pigs who said that seeing bobby be a father taught him how to be a father himself, as well as how to be more tactile and gentle with his children. all this to say that i don’t think bobby coldly used ethel to reproduce and be done with it either. people might have thought that because of his own father, but although he did want his approval, bobby in his own family was drastically different despite his own faults.

he didn’t leave the rearing and affection of his children only to his wife. along with ethel, he nurtured, taught, and loved his children openly and unashamedly. he was so involved that he was writing letters to his children a day after jack’s death — a situation where he might have felt no obligation to do so due to the grief that he was under and all that he was dealing with. and i think that the mere fact that bobby and ethel did grow a big family and did it united as a team is and was a great example of their love for one another.

and your point about how misogyny is still not okay despite a woman’s wrongdoings and flaws is one that i feel and agree with so deeply. i’ve seen this happen with many of the kennedy women, but especially with rose who — believe it or not — had it very different than all the kennedy women, which is saying a lot lol. and for that alone, i give her a bit of grace.

same with ethel tbh. i’m not saying that some of her actions towards her children were okay or ideal because they weren’t. but at the same time, they’re not for me to wholeheartedly judge. i don’t think that she ever imagined that she would be left alone and widowed with ten children to raise plus a newborn — the oldest of her children was sixteen-seventeen i think. there also exists the possibility that she may have been dealing with post-partum depression, but of course there's no way for us to know that. and yes, she had people there to comfort her at first, but naturally they couldn’t stay there to comfort her forever, and i doubt that she would have even allowed herself to be comforted in the first place. as it's noticed in her own documentary, she wasn’t one to dwell, but in not dwelling and not processing the trauma of losing her husband in such a sudden and violent manner, it left her incapable of comforting her own children in their grief. but again, eleven children is A Lot of children. raising them is hard enough, but having to do it alone after your husband was killed in such a brutal way? not an easy task. with her suppressed grief and emotions, i imagine that that would’ve led her to become easily frustrated with her children in those first years, and of course what we know now about child-rearing, trauma, and ptsd in general just wasn’t known then unfortunately. my intention is not to excuse her, but i also don’t feel that it’s conducive to fully condemn her either because the truth is that none of us have been in her shoes, and from my viewpoint, they look like very difficult shoes to fill either way.

onto your last couple of points, i think the reason that people may feel that bobby didn’t love ethel while at the same time being willing to accept that jack loved jackie was because jack’s affairs were, from what we know, never emotional. he had so many that none of them really mattered to him lol, while there is much evidence to show that jackie did matter to him in his own way. it's not a fair assessment/comparison, but that's probably why. although i want to clarify that i'm not saying that there’s nothing to show for bobby and ethel. if anything, i think that there’s a lot more to show in their case. bobby was very open with his love and affection for ethel, publicly and privately. i believe that there was true affection there. nonetheless, sometimes people inherently find it impossible to accept that someone could have felt deep emotion for more than one person. some even find it morally reprehensible. i personally think that it can sometimes be more complex than that, but to each their own.

now in bobby and jackie’s case, there are also bits of evidence to show that it wasn’t some quick, careless thing either. and for some people, that must mean that ethel meant very little to bobby. that sort of thought process is understandable and sometimes valid, but human beings are also rarely ever that simple. and the kennedy’s. well. they’re even less so! as you’ve said, love can exist in a variety of forms. i think there was always a mutual affection and respect between jackie and bobby, and that only grew after jack’s death as they began to depend more on one another. for jackie, in her own words, there was a time that “bobby meant more to [her] than life itself.” as for bobby, we can infer what he may have felt based on the pictures that exist, his actions toward jackie, the few recorded things he said about her, how jackie felt about him because jackie didn’t give her affection to just anybody, and what was written about him/them posthumously. i imagine that he would have been much more discreet with what he said to others and with what he may have written down because of what he learned from jack and his own father’s lack of discretion in their own affairs. and with his political career on the rise? he must have known he had to be very discreet and careful. he understood what it could lead to if he wasn't to a very astute degree.

and it's also important to note that jackie and bobby were kind of the best PR managers of their time lol. he and jackie maintained close connections & niceties with multiple reporters/journalists — i'm not saying they directly manipulated them into anything. but still. it's impossible that these connections wouldn't have affected the bias of the reporters and possibly pulled them from reporting on certain things that they may have deemed far-fetched or untrue, no matter the authenticity of the rumors — jackie herself could be more unyielding about the whole thing. she fired and distanced herself from anybody who said even one little private thing about them when she was alive. in one instance, after red fay, a long-time friend of jack and the kennedy's, sent bobby and jackie a manuscript of his memoir about his friendship with jack, they both cut out large chunks of the text that he ended up complying with in the end — and when he tried to appease jackie by sending her his first royalty check of the book, she sent it back to him to signal that their friendship was over. on top of that, jackie fired caroline's piano teacher a day after the woman carelessly mentioned the fact to a reporter. she would constantly rotate her limousine drivers ... i wonder why. she even asked her friends to not reveal personal things about her, such as what breed of dogs she preferred, what books she loved, what films she liked, etc . so if those little things couldn't even be disclosed to the public, there is no chance in hell that their close friends would reveal their goings-on while they were still alive to do something about it.

anyway, i kind of went off topic a little but to refer back to bobby & ethel's marriage in regards to bobbyjackie ... if i'm honest ........

i do sort of feel that after jack's death and because of ethel's inability to go beyond religion to comfort bobby, which then led him to find other means and to rely on jackie for comfort, may have only led him to sort of maybeeee...... outgrow ethel? that's not to say that he completely fell out of love, but i think that he evolved immensely and only kept evolving after jack's death, and perhaps even outgrew religion in the way that he had viewed it and engaged with it beforehand. if we compare the version of him that married ethel and the version of him after 1963, i'd argue that those versions were vastly different. it must have added a new, somewhat complicated dynamic to their marriage. in her documentary, ethel hesitantly revealed that she didn't know how to comfort him during that period. that she was at a loss. i suspect that that would have caused a bit of an emotional rift that may have gone unnoticed because they were both already dealing with so much by that time: children, politics, social obligations, and yes, emotional trauma. to me, that might explain the sort of split/detachment that went on there with bobby; where bobby was simultaneously able to still love ethel because he perhaps felt that it was his duty to maintain that with all the history of love, commitment, and intimacy that existed between them, while also being capable of engaging in a grand emotional affair with jackie and feeling that sincerely as well.

so, yes, long story short: i do believe that those two facts (that bobby was into jackie while also loving and caring for his wife of 18 years) can coexist. it's complicated and painfully nuanced. and if we talk about it for too long, it can veer off into a more psychological conversation around bobby LMAO but yes. if anyone was capable of exerting so much self-control and lack of self-control all at the same time, it was robert f kennedy.