#byler is still happening as hinted by everything up to this point

[pinkeoni]

i dont think that byler needs to have had been planned since the beginning for it to still be happening

[lkmo-ntes]

SET DESIGN AND DETAIL!!

I'm not sure if anyone else has talked about this yet, but:

Last week, the Stranger Things 5 production team Instagram channel posted a thread of mini interviews with set director Jess Royal, where she answered multiple fan questions and talked about her experience as set director.

Something that stuck out to me was part of her answer to a fan asking if there is an item on set that Jess would want in her house. Something that she mentioned was a still-life painting in the creel house of a variety of food on a table that was specially painted for the set. There is also a full article about the interview here. She mentioned that although fans might not notice it, it is a reference to future events such as the last supper in the Russia plot. She also said that there was a through-line there even if no one noticed it, meaning that even this little detail kept the storyline consistent and hinted at future events.

If this painting, that many fans (including myself) didn't notice in its entirety throughout multiple rewatches of the show ,has such prominent foreshadowing towards something that will happen later, who's to say that there's not more of them?

We know that Stranger Things is very consistent when it comes to set design and small details. Every detail of every set is perfected to fit the theme. Nothing is accedental/unimportant. This painting, following even more details about the Creel House explored in the article, further prove this point.

By that logic, this includes shots like this.

And this.

And even Will's poster on Alan Turing- a small hint that he's gay, something that was later confirmed.

(I obviously didn't include a lot of shots, but I don't feel like rewatching and finding more things rn, go look up byler set design if you want more shots and details that other people found, its pretty cool)

DETAILS MATTER. Everything is perfected exactly the way it should be. PLEASE PAY ATTENTION it all is there for a reason!!

[gayofthefae]

Season 2 was a purposefully and fully romantic season for Mike and Will and they're gonna come back to it.

El's death changes everything. El's death is a crazy situation to be in. El's death is an amazing setup.

Mike made a promise to a girl. Then she died. Then he fell for someone else. And they had something, unspoken. He spoke it, just a little bit. Then, after a year, hours later, she came back.

That is a CLASSIC bad timing trope.

Ex you thought was gone for good comes back and holds you to something is TEXTBOOK and ALWAYS juicy. But most importantly, as a trope, it's pre-existing.

That is what season 2 is for.

Mike and Will aren't just in love. They aren't just miscommunicating. They didn't just self sabotage. They didn't just miss each other by a little bit because they didn't know. They were INTERRUPTED.

"While you were gone I developed feelings for someone else because I thought you were gone forever but then you came back and I was happy you were back but now I don't know what do" IS a trope. And a JUICY one at that.

They aren't retconning anything. They're pointing it out. They wrote a specific romantic trope by the book already. You just don't know that that's what it was because you don't know that's how he was feeling about it.

But that's the thing. All that's left is the feelings. People think Byler would be forced because they don't notice that the romantic tropes we define every other romance by are already present and it's not just a made up "now kiss" out of nowhere. People define consistency and planning and arcs by these tropes. Byler HAS them. Distinct and specific ones. The situations are there. They just need to be informed of the feelings.

Just like friends to lovers is only friends to lovers when they become lovers. And miscommunication is only miscommunication once they act on the assumption. Tropes aren't always visible until they manifest. But the situation is there. All the actions have been committed. All the pieces are in place.

Mike dated El then didn't. Then she came back. All they need to is say "something happened" in between. You'll believe them. The same way when he couldn't say he loved her we all went "wait a minute, oh shit...he didn't say it in season 3, did he?", we will all go "oh shit, they separated Mike and El for a reason"

When it came out, I always just assumed the separation in season 2 was to try and extend the interest, and I forgave them for it. I still believed that until my realization tonight. I knew it was to give screentime for Mike and Will but I never truly connected the dots. It wasn't just setup and hints. It wasn't just getting people on board with their dynamic. Something was actually there. Something almost HAPPENED.

The thing about this trope is...it's about momentum being cut off. They had momentum. In season 2,...they were going somewhere.

[hawkinsunderground]

every time i start to feel like i'm deluding myself about byler happening, i give myself a reality check using the classic 'if they were all straight' scenario, and then i stop doubting. if everything remained the same--same relationships, same dynamics with friends--with the only difference in the show being that Will was a girl, it's almost painfully obvious. And because all a m/f couple has to do is be in the vicinity of each other to get shipped, byler probably would have been more popular even in the earlier seasons.

Mike spending an entire season right by his girl best friend's side, desperate to help and fighting to stay near her as she slowly gets possessed. Then at the end of it all he gives her a whole speech crying and saying that choosing to be friends with her was the best thing he's ever done? I guarantee you even with milkvan developing a bunch of people would have jumped on the byler train, and more others would be thinking that Mike and Willow or whatever would eventually get together later on, with warring opinions on who the better ship is.

Mike neglecting his girl best friend who is now hinted to have a crush on him in s3 while trying to get over being kidnapped and everything she went through? Spending all his time with Eleven even though byler had just been so close the season prior. There's no way at least some ppl wouldn't be thinking romance. The whole 'Mike's probably repressing his feelings and pushing Will away because he's scared' idea that a lot of bylers believe suddenly wouldn't be a reach anymore if it was a straight pairing.

Sectioning the two of them off to have their little cali romance all the while hinting at serious relationship troubles and conflicting character arcs for Mike and Eleven. Meanwhile the shrouded love confession from 'Willow', the obvious flirting. You can't look me in the eyes and tell me that people wouldn't be losing their shit during the entire apology scene if Will was a girl. The flirty smiles, the "I didn't say it." "You didn't have to.", the intimacy of his apology to 'Willow' in comparison to the apology from Mike to Lucas in s1. Along with all of the other scenes where Mike is clearly different with 'Willow' compared to the rest of his friends, he's always near her, etc.

Atp I feel like the general consensus would be that they're setting up a Melvin breakup and Byler endgame. Mike putting his hand on Willow's shoulder and promising they'll get through this together while literally showing Midleven crashing and burning in the same scene? In one of the final scenes? You're gonna tell me that people wouldn't be thinking along the lines of romance, with the love triangle pointing in byler's favor?

Mike's 'love' confession would come across as the lie that it was and a lot of people would probably be saying that Mike is not confronting his true feelings. They would be drawing the same comaprisons we are--that it didn't even work and the gates opened, that his (girl) best friend had to tell him and guide him to confess to Eleven, with them finally as close as they were around s2 again and Melvin not even really getting back together, with clear issues still present in the finale. The direction they are going to take things in s5 would become obvious without the straight goggles blinding people to some of the most obvious character and relationship arcs that have been done a million times.

The only difference would be the lack of struggle due to homophobia and would probably be more centered on Mike's inability to confront his feelings due to a fear of messing things up between himself and Will, along with losing el because he doesn't love her the way she wants him to, keeping to the core of his character in either scenario

You're gonna tell me that if people saw this and it was mike's girl best friend sitting next to him, they wouldn't be jumping at a romance arc between the two of them?

or his reaction to them being friends again, a smile and voice we've never seen used with any other character, noticably different?

the physical proximity, the fact that they seem equally flirtatious and affected by the other despite Will being the only one with confirmed feelings atp it's too obvious--if it were a girl sitting next to mike people would definitely be drawing some conclusions Anyway, byler endgame

[willthewise7]

Season 1 Episode 1 Analysis

Will Byers’ sexuality hinted from the start:

It’s clear to see from the very beginning that Will was intended to be gay. Very obvious hints in dialogue from Hopper and Joyce whilst speaking about Lonnie and how he use to think he was “queer”. Hopper asks if that was true to see if a potential hate crime was the key cause of Will’s disappearance.

Will Byers has powers:

Right from the very beginning of the episode this is teased. Remember when the writers/producers mentioned how everything is written intentionally? This here is a prime example.

The first hint of this being a potential plot point is through the demogorgon scene. Firstly, it’s clear that Will did not bleed when he fell of his bike. If he did, they would’ve shown it on camera to demonstrate that this is how demogorgons hunt, primarily through smell (specifically blood). This was not shown, due to Will not being hurt from the crash. Therefore, why did the demogorgon still pursue Will? Even when he was in the house and surely not easily detectable by the demogorgon?

Moving on, once the demogorgon reaches the house it moves the latch on the door. Seems normal right? Sure, if the latch was on the other side of the door. It used telekinesis to open the door which we know they can’t do. So it’s probable that Vecna was involved in using the demogorgon to retrieve Will. Why this is remains to be seen, until Season 5. But my bet is it’s due to Will having unknown powers.

The last part of the scene I want to mention is the shed. Firstly, the demogorgon just emerges out of no where at all. How is this possible? Potentially a portal opened up inside the shed which the demogorgon created, which does make sense. It also makes sense for Will to escape through the portal (which is what Hopper examines the remains of). So to me, that plot point is logical and I can rest with that.

This brings me to my final point. During one of the last scenes of the episode we see Joyce and Jonathan looking at photos of Will. Whilst they do so, the phone begins to ring. However, it sounds very ominous and ends with a demogorgon noise. I don’t think a demogorgon thought of doing a prank call out of nowhere. It could’ve been Vecna but again, I don’t see why he’d bother. It was Will trying to communicate with Joyce, but the demogorgon over heard. Hence why Will has to run away and the demogorgon finds the phone, making the noise at the end of the call. Will therefore somehow can manipulate objects and matter through dimensions. Further leading me to believe that he has powers. Read my other theories for why I believe time froze as a result of Will in the Upside Down.

The next part of the episode that hints at Will having powers is the campaign scenes and party scenes. Will could cast protection in the campaign but he decides to, instead, cast fireball and risk his own life for the party. Like Mike said “he could have played it safe”, and he “could’ve cast protection”, but he risked himself “for the party”. It’s very odd how these actions became real after it happens in the campaign. Will gets taken by the demogorgon in real life, and he gets taken out in the game. His actions lead to real consequences in both reality and in the game. What if he’d not cast fireball? Would the whole party have been in real danger?

Again, does he have some sort of powers with dimensions he’s unaware of? Does he have the power to make the game come to life?

Byler is hinted from the start:

Right from the start Byler is hinted at, very subtley. It’s hinted at that Will is gay but also that he cares a lot about Mike. He could easily lie to Mike so that he wouldn’t have been taken by the demogorgon in the game. However, he has to tell Mike the truth because he cares about him a lot. Trust is the main foundation for any healthy relationship. You can’t lie easily to those that you care about deeply.

Mike also cares deeply about Will. I lost count of the amount of times that Mike is concerned about Will and even says “I’m the only one who cares about Will”. You could just say that it’s because they’re best friends, which is true. They are best friends. But the entire party are really good friends. So they’re clearly trying to tell the audience from the start that these two have a unique and special relationship. The camera and directing focuses on Mike when searching for Will the most. The rest of the party are concerned too, but the directing focuses on Mike more. Rememeber, this is intentional. They want us to notice and pay attention to this.

A last note on Byler and Mike is the last scene when they find El. We know in Season 4 that Mike says that day and moment is when he realised he loved El. But the first episode directing and acting says otherwise. It didn’t look to me like love at first sight. They were all shocked to see a random girl in the middle of the woods. It’s not what you’d expect to see. So I do believe that line was a lie. Otherwise the directing would have been different or that line wouldn’t have been included.

[starsarefire824]

Everyone are having doubts do you still believe in byler endgame and if you do how you think will be? Not what do you wants but what really will happens knowing the duffer and how they write the show.

Hey anon, thank you for the ask!

As far as Byler goes, I'm still at the same point I've been this entire time...I honestly and truly believe that the writing has hinted at, suggested, alluded to it being real. I h lol ave personally been on the "wrong" side of a different major fandom (which I won't mention here)---ridiculed, called crazy, obsessive etc--to then have everything we had claimed from the beginning be proven true in the final act. If you want to know what I'm talking about you can probably figure it out from my profile or you can message me and I'll go on that rant in private lol.

Either way, my point is.....everything that is happening in this fandom...mimics that one entirely. It is a fandom that is dominated by a generally male, white, hetero-normative point of view. And so I think it's easy to lose hope, it's easy to give in to those people telling you that you're crazy for seeing what you're seeing.

But what it comes down to in the end is, most of us have been here since season 2. Most of us have been noticing the hints for years. And after season three, I'm not really sure what people are looking at if they are not seeing the complicated relationship that Mike has with El and Will. It is a canon fact that he cannot balance them emotionally. When one is in his life, the other is out. Season 3 proved that when they are both in his life at the same time, he cannot make it work. When he is paying attention to El, he is hurting Will. When he is paying attention to Will, he is hurting El. And this all comes to a head in season 4.

And season 4 is interesting to me because once again, El is (after a few episodes) quickly removed from Will and Mike's immediate story line. Mike, once again, ends up with Will in situations that make them work together. Situations that make them be emotionally vulnerable with each other. Situations that allow them to become closer.

I firmly believe that there is a reason, besides Mike being emotionally stunted by his family, that he can't say "i love you" to El. I think that the writers' had specific intentions when they wrote Mike's "love confession" to El as a direct response to Will's emotions. I firmly believe that if I was supposed to be rooting for El and Mike to be together, I as an audience member, would have been given a private, softly lit, romantically coded emotional scene between Mike and El post "2 days later". But we didn't. The softly lit, emotional, intimate moment we got? Was with Will.

Furthermore, El and Will have been directly paralleled since season one and since season 2 both of their storylines have directly revolved around Mike. And one character, Will, has been the one that has been show to need and want Mike in the way that he needs to be needed and wanted. Will has been the character that specifically benefits from Mike's attention and love. El's journey has always been for herself. It has always been figuring out where she belongs in the world and claiming her autonomy from Brenner (and Henry and many others).

As for how I believe the Duffer's will accomplish this? I have as good a guess as the rest of you. I am just a humble fan. But from the context clues that we've been given throughout the show....I have a hunch that El and Will will discover some sort of connection between the two of them. This connection will probably directly relate to the pull they feel towards Mike. I think that El will continue her journey from season 4 of self-discovery and standing on her own two feet, rejecting the men (people) around her who tell her they know what she wants/needs/desires. I think that Will will have his "coming of age". He will finally accept himself for who he is. I think it will be revealed that Will has some sort of direct connection to either the Upside Down or Henry himself. I think that he is the "cure" or the "key" to healing what has been broken. I really love the "wonder twin" idea that Will and El will work together to defeat Vecna.

And finally, I think that Mike, the knight, the paladin, the heart of the party....he'll finally realize where his heart truly lies. And Will, understanding that his love is reciprocated, that their love is true. I really think it will, in some way, (even if it's one small working part in the huge machine that is Stranger Things), help defeat the evil that has reigned over Hawkins for too long.

Maybe I'm too much of a romantic. But I'm gonna continue to believe it until I'm proven wrong. I will be the first to admit defeat as it comes, but for me....

There are just too many parallels, hints, subtext etc. for me to believe anything else at this point. I don't think the Duffer Brothers are pulling our leg, I don't believe they are trying to queerbait us, I don't believe they made this show for the people of Reddit and Facebook. I truly think, when they said it was for the "outsiders" and the "misunderstood" they meant it. And imo, Byler is a real part of that that will be made clear in the final act.

Let's hope we're right! <3

[castlebyersafterdark]

(Do yall know how many asks I get requesting details and preferences on the intricacies of anal sex prep? Yall. Suspension of disbelief. There's so many advice and sexual health articles out there to read up on if you're so curious, it's... implied. No offense to the curious mind, I appreciate the genuine approach, but I ain't including all that in a fic hahaha. ANYWAY

you thought you could hide this in the strikeout but vinny dahling, i can read Strike (TM) AAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA CRUELLA DE VIL LAUGH

anyway. so i have never asked for this in an anon lol but i have to empathise with the dear and curious readers (most likely girls but maybe baby gays or straight guys who are curious???? shoutout to all the lurking straight dudes here on vinny's blog lol). i think sexfic can be hot and heightened reality, but its also nice to add some realism and it can be aspirational too. youre kind of a king of realistic sex in hcs and fics in the spicy byler fandom tbh. youre invested in realism and emotion in a way many other writers arent. and ofc, you have life experience.

so i think its just a case of - well, for me, i think its just interest to see how the practicalities could be worked into fic. because yes there is info available, but those articles dont tell you how to incorporate the necessities into an actual scenario or story thats still sexy. i just think it would be incredible and so sexy to read a fic (or see a film!) where the nuts and bolts of everything were included. messy, maybe it fails, but yeah. it makes younger people especially hopeful, because it validates the frequent fails of early sex experiences. and thats byler! i know youre working on a fic of their early relationship so I'm sure you'll grace us with some Very Realistic details about anal sex prep and make it poetic in its realism, too. if anyone can, its you! whenever youre ready, im sure lots of us will be happy to read that.

love you vinny.

HAHAHA well 😉

And it's no shade to those lovely, curious, inquiring minds. It's realistic!! It's obviously going to cross the mind, I get it! Maybe, just getting too nitty gritty and acknowledging all the hyper-real aspects of stuff has a twinge of embarrassment, a sort of mindset where it's like, oh I'm enjoying writing about fictional sex and sharing little hints at personal sexcapades, but there are times where I don't want to be seen as a beacon of real advice and especially not become a go-to sexual health educator hahaha. I'm just being silly or creative most of the time.

But... yeah. I can't deny the fact that I do enjoy having my niche being a little bit of a realistic approach to my fanworks. It's pretty fun, because I've mostly dabbled in the ridiculous or lofty before now - but I switched up styles and approach and what I always wanted was an honest sort of insight and writing style. Found it in this fandom of all places, wild. So, yeah. Authenticity. Love that, strive for that. I appreciate the kind words and faith in me!!

Very true though that more very realistic media in general would be super interesting, and I think more things these days are surprising me in positive ways. We do need more realism for many aspects and depictions of the intricacies of intimacy and relationships. For sure. I will say... I do think you and others will find a lot of this in that fic I'm slowly working on. That's why it's gonna take awhile! I think something like that is gonna be more long form if I want to say what I want to say. Of course here's stuff in the fic meant to be hot, but most of it is just... exploratory and trying stuff through storytelling. Depicting how two young men entering a sexual relationship together with very little reference points might deal. Ohhh, it's got awkward moments, it's got not-so refined sex, it's got realism in what is actually happening - I think you'll find what you and others are looking for there. It's my realism fic while a lot of my other stuff does have that typical fanfic mystical world where things just somewhat... gloss over reality to an extent haha.

Love you too anon ❤️❤️

[toiletguy04]

Although I agree with some points, the way they ended season 4 was bound to evoke questions regarding ships.

Aside from the kind of telling ending sequence, there were also loose ends that were left to elicit suspicions and hopes. For example, the Mileven storyline being repetitive and dragged and the reason's still unclear which leaves people to speculate things. The season 3 ending being too odd and for what? It's being stretched for too long over and over again because... their relationship's a central theme? If there's something to expect, I believe it's El being independent on s4. So if Byler won't happen, Mileven would still be over. All signs leading to that. Plus you saying it's crucial to the plot disregards every character growth Eleven had from s1 to 4. All of her storylines is finding out who she is and you're claiming Mike is an integral factor for that? (He may be in season 3, and also it would make sense but only if she breaks up with him in season 5 because if she stays then what's the whole point of everything, I'm too sleepy to elaborate on this)

Which means all the byler speculations are plausible. Because why would they confirm Will's feelings during season 4, like you said, abruptly if not to imply? Bylers weren't around that much before season 4 and yet they confirmed Will's feelings for Mike. As a way to satisfy fans? If they want representation so bad why not do it another way? Like you said, Will and Mike's friendship has depth and goes way beyond as the show showed, why ruin it by making the other in an unrequited love? For character development? Again, they could've made a different storyline for that. There's a lot more clues hinting to a possible Byler endgame which you'll see if you actually take your time to consider and read the theories (There's too many to jot down).

In conclusion, perspective can be interesting but a narrative wouldn't exist if there were no pre-existing subtext. The Bylers may have dabbled beyond canon and looked at things too much but all the theories are valid until proven otherwise. The understanding you have is surface-level, relying solely on what was explicitly implied rather than the subtexts present somewhere. It may be snug to hold onto something canonically implied, not being open to possibilities might bite u back in the ass. Byler happening, Byler not happening, who knows. Let's all just enjoy the show?

Byler is Not Happening in Season Five of Stranger Things

Part 1

First and foremost, it would be implausible for the show to abruptly shift Mike Wheeler's love interest after several seasons of build-up. Since Eleven (Jane Hopper) was introduced as a character, the show has consistently highlighted the romantic attraction between her and Mike. Initially portrayed as middle school puppy love, their relationship has evolved over the seasons. Whether through comments from Mike's best friends, Lucas Sinclair and Dustin Henderson, or remarks from his sister, Nancy Wheeler, it has been clear that Mike has romantic feelings for Eleven, despite his attempts to hide it as a typical middle school crush.

The Duffer Brothers effectively depicted the growing romantic tension between Mike and Eleven throughout the first season, culminating in their first kiss in the cafeteria after Mike invited Eleven to the Snowball dance. While the main focus of season one was finding Will, Mike's showed that same dedication to finding Eleven , who went missing, and was evident when he tried to contact her for 353 days via walkie-talkie, as revealed in the last episode of season two and seen once or twice throughout the season. Basically what this means is that Mike would go to extreme extents to help out his friends... not just Will.

Although season two includes several scenes centered on Byler (Mike and Will), it is crucial to understand that the affection they show towards each other stems from their deep friendship. Best friends naturally comfort each other during difficult times. For example, in the "crazy together" scene, Mike comforts Will after a traumatic experience, sharing his own struggles with missing Eleven. This scene emphasizes their bond, as they both feel like they are going "crazy" for different reasons. Contrary to some interpretations, Will is not upset by Mike's mention of Eleven; he actually appears glad to share a connection with Mike, despite their differing problems.

Part 2

The fight between Mike Wheeler and Will Byers in season three of Stranger Things has been widely misinterpreted by some fans. During their argument, Mike's remark, "It's not my fault you don't like girls," was not intended as a bait against Will's sexuality. Instead, Mike meant that Will was not interested in dating, unlike the rest of their group at that time. This comment, while harsh, was a reflection of Mike's frustration with the changes in their friendship dynamics as they grew older.

It is essential to note that Mike's statement had no bearing on his own heterosexuality or his potential romantic involvement with Will. Mike's established romantic interest in Eleven has been a central narrative element throughout the series, and this moment of conflict with Will was more about their diverging interests and the strains of adolescence than any latent romantic tension between Mike and Will. Misinterpreting this scene undermines the depth of their friendship and disregards the broader context of their character development.

Moreover, suggesting a romantic affair between Mike and Will would disrupt the foundational narrative built around Eleven's character. Mike's relationship with Eleven is pivotal to the storyline, and introducing a romantic subplot with Will would not only feel forced but also undermine the carefully constructed dynamics that have been developed over multiple seasons. The show's continuity and emotional resonance depend on maintaining the integrity of these relationships.

Part 3

Just because Will Byers is a canonically queer character does not mean that Mike Wheeler must also be queer to create a new ship within the show. Representation is important, but forcing a character into a particular sexual orientation simply to satisfy a subset of the fanbase would undermine the authenticity of the show's narrative and character development. Mike's feelings for Eleven have been consistently portrayed throughout the series, and there is no substantial evidence to suggest that his romantic inclinations extend beyond her.

Moreover, the conflicts and arguments between Mike and Eleven are a normal part of any teenage relationship. It is unrealistic to expect their relationship to be "smooth sailing" all the time. The challenges they face and the disagreements they have are typical of young love, where both individuals are still learning about themselves and each other. These conflicts add depth to their characters and make their relationship more relatable and realistic. They reflect the natural ups and downs that come with growing up and navigating romantic relationships during adolescence.

Part 4

Many of the fanbase's theories regarding Byler are not only incorrect but also delusional when subjected to even a little fact-checking and research. For instance, some fans interpret every close interaction between Mike and Will as romantic, ignoring the context of their long-standing friendship. Scenes like the "crazy together" moment are often misrepresented to fit a desired narrative, despite clear evidence that they showcase platonic support.

The theory that Mike is secretly in love with Will disregards the multiple seasons of character development and explicit expressions of Mike's feelings for Eleven. A thorough review of the show’s episodes, interviews with the creators, and official materials confirms that Mike's storyline is deeply intertwined with Eleven's. The Duffer Brothers have repeatedly emphasized the importance of Mike and Eleven's relationship as a core element of the series.

In conclusion, the notion of Byler happening in season five is inconsistent with the show's established narrative. Mike and Eleven's relationship, with all its complexities and growth, has been a central theme. It is important to appreciate the story as it unfolds, recognizing that not all characters need to fit into every fan theory or ship. Fact-checking and a deeper understanding of the characters’ arcs reveal that many fan theories are simply wishful thinking rather than plausible plot developments.

[etherealfroggy]

One of the biggest things I come back to whenever I have even a hint of byler doubt (apart from all the googoo gaga eyes and lip stares Mike gives Will...) is the whole "will is in love with mike and used his painting as a crutch for Melvin" thing because...how else is that plotline supposed to be resolved if not with byler endgame?

And this isn't subtext or color theory or dynamic lighting which we could possibly be making up in our heads..this is TEXT. Undeniably seen with my own two eyes on the show.

Why would they make Will fall deeply and hopelessly in love with Mike (for the entire show up to this point) just for Mike to reject him in the final season? What would be the narrative reason for that? How would that advance or affect the show or any of the characters in an interesting and intriguing way? The answer is it wouldn't! So it would be useless. If they wanted to show Will coming to terms with his sexuality, they could've done that in a lot of other ways but you're telling me they went with the boring, overused, "sad gay boy in love with his straight best friend" trope that would end in tragedy for a character who has only ever known pain? Nah. You can miss me with that bullshit.

ALSOOO what would be the logical conclusion to the whole painting plotline? Will confessed his feelings to Mike under the guise that that was actually how El felt about him and that was the only reason Mike was able to say he loves her. That can't be how the plotline ends. There's still more. Obviously Mike has to find out it was Will's painting + feelings all along and what would happen then? If not Byler, what would have been the point of doing any of this only for Mike to go, "Oh, Will, YOU made the painting? Umm...that's dope bro. I'm not gay tho. Flattered, but not gay. So...I'm just going to continue dating the girl who I could only profess my love to because I thought she felt the way YOU do about me. Lol...sorry." Then they somehow go back to being besties??

What would be the point for any of the characters? That would only affirm Will's belief that he is a mistake and that his feelings for Mike deserve to be silenced and it would do absolutely NOTHING for Mike's character. It would be...pointless!

Not to mention how El would react to knowing the love confession from Mike wasn't spurred on by her...but by Will. I would be pretty pissed and hurt. It already looks like she is unhappy with Mike for some reason at the end of s4 so I really want to know what melvins + the GA think is going to happen to conclude all of this in a satisfying, intriguing way.

Everything is pointing to byler endgame otherwise the show wasted a lot of time on a plotline that went nowhere and only hammered in exactly what we already know about the characters and their relationships (mike and el love each other and will loves mike but will never be able to get with him because mike is Hetero - nothing new or interesting there).

[chirpsythismorning]

In reference to the script for 4x04 dropping, curtesy of @aurorabyler

STRAP IN FOLKS!

Basically, I'm now considering the possibility that Finn used notes separate from the script for season 4, which were specific to Mike and Mike only.

Because let's be real, there's no way the Duffer's gave Finn absolutely nothing to go off of, at all. Which is what this script here implies.

They themselves actually revealed that they gave him 'some pretty hard hitting stuff this season'. And I'm starting to think it's because his character was very difficult portray.

Until we get all the scripts for s4, we won’t know for sure, but if/when we eventually do, I think what we’ll find is that all of these important moments involving Mike this season, are never going to be from Mike's perspective, but from either Will's, El's or even Jonathon's. At best, Mike's inner thoughts will be vague or hidden in the subtext, but not even close to being fully acknowledged.

Luckily for all of us, there happens to be at least one scene in particular we may not have to wait for a script to find out...

Before Vol. 2 dropped, the one and only swiftlynavel said that the pineapple pizza scene was from Will’s pov (tweet since deleted 👀).

Although they weren’t right about everything, they were right about a few things that happened in Vol. 2, including:

Humoring the possibility of Byler is not something they're known for, so I'm not surprised they revealed this "Will's pov' leak, only to not think much of it initially. But the fact that they've since deleted this tweet, makes me wonder if they realized this detail ended up being not so great for their interpretation of things.

Still, if what they said is true, then this would only support the theory that we're witnessing everything mostly from Will's perspective this season, even in every M*leven scene potentially now. Well, besides their 'big' fight, because Will wasn't present (but, when we eventually do get the script for that scene, and it's from El's perspective and totally ambiguous in regards to Mike's feelings... then what?)

If the Duffer's are going through all this trouble to keep us in the dark, to the point where Mike's perspective is entirely missing from the script... to the point where even the most casual of fans are begging for s1-2 Mike Wheeler back... then it must be building up to something, and for a specific reason.

After reading the script for 4x04, we can see there are indeed little to no hints about what Mike is thinking/feeling. When it comes to him, the script focuses solely on his actions, literal expressions and dialogue. That’s it. Nothing much deeper though, especially not anything that could hint too much about his feelings/thoughts regarding Will. They don't want to give us any clear cut reason why he is saying/doing the things he is. They offer up the bare minimum, then leave the rest up to interpretation.

How convenient.

Now, Will on the other hand... his mouth, DRY AS A CALIFORNIA SUMMER???

So yeah, this is all very suspicious.

Oddly, what made this possibility of Finn having notes, separate from the script, sort of hit me, was that I noticed there was no mention in the script of Mike putting his arm up to Will during the shoot out.

Fans first noticed this subtly in the actual episode, but it was only a mere observation at this point. It was so fast, that I don't think any of us were all too confident it was a definitive creative choice by the director or anything...

But then Shawn Levy, director of 4x04 himself, posted a video of them rehearsing this exact moment, with Finn clearly putting his arm up to Noah in a way that feels, dare I say... scripted?

I think understandably, they all tried to be as exact as possible in their character’s movements during the rehearsal here, because the official shot needed to be done in one long take. They had to get it right.

But hypothetically, for the sake of this post, this could be just one potential example of Finn doing/saying something, that was intentionally left out of the main script, and understandably so, because it might hint towards Mike's thoughts/feelings towards Will.

And this alone may also disprove the popular fan theory that Finn is pushing for Byler all by himself, against the Duffers wishes (tbh I think dude is just doing his job the way they intended??). And even if that was the case, wouldn't it have made more sense for him to wait to pull this out in the final take, not outright during rehearsal? It's very clearly something he wouldn't do unless he was supposed to, directed to, especially given the implications with everything that’s going on in the plot during this episode.

Again, I think that if/when we get the rest of the scripts for s4, it's likely going to follow this trend of everything being from Will's perspective, or at least heavily ambiguous in regards to what Mike could possibly be thinking.

This would also conveniently explain why Mike’s behavior this season has been so confusing to the audience overall. Vol. 2 especially has people STUMPED. Which would make sense if only Finn and a handful of others know the true nature of his reactions. It’s possible most involved in the process aren’t entirely aware of Mike’s feelings as a result of them leaving everything out of the script. And I think that allowed for the story to come off so disjointed and confusing. That was the intention.

It was entirely intentional that we didn't know a single thought that was going on in Mike's head.

But why? What could he possibly be thinking about, that would make it so worthwhile to hold off on...

Anyways... Highly anticipated Mike revelation in ST5, here we come !!

[wakeupthemembersofbylernation]

So… on one hand, two minutes out of ~4 hours is not much. Like there’s SO MUCH they didn’t show in the trailer, so to anyone losing hope about Byler or about Mike or Will getting Vecnaed, I wouldn’t do so just yet. Always remember that Noah Schnapp said, “They’re building that up, so definitely ship that,” and I find it hard to believe he’d say that just for nothing to happen. He wouldn’t be so giddy talking about Byler and liking Byler edits on TikTok at every chance he gets. There is still the painting, which narratively speaking must be revealed at some point, as it is Checkov’s Gun.

That being said, hmmm… I know it’s probably not evidence for anything but it’s so interesting to me that there IS a Byler scene in the trailer (even if it doesn’t seem like the one we were hoping for) but not even a hint or a glance at the Melvin reunion, despite the fact that we know it’s coming. So even if there are only two seconds of Byler in a non-romantic context, why would the marketing be non-existent for the supposedly biggest ship of the show… unless?

But yeah, the cabin scene is somewhat concerning for Byler. On the one hand, it seems to be directly a parallel to Season 2 in the way they are sitting and the way Will is confiding in Mike. On the other hand, it’s in a definitively supernatural/Vecna related context not in a romantic heart-to-heart context like we’d hoped for. But also, we were only shown like two seconds from the scene! We could be taking it out of context! Or there can also be more to the scene. Like what if a confession of sorts happens ~because~ everyone’s in danger supernaturally. Also, when will the painting be revealed?! It has to be at some point, and we know it has romantic implications based on El’s letter.

There’s HEAVY Empire Strikes Back parallels in this trailer, and I know people have already mentioned it, but that makes El the Luke of this story and Mike and Will potentially the Han and Leia of this story. Han and Leia get closer romantically during ESB, but then it ends on a cliffhanger when Han is turned into carbonite… so what if Mike gets taken to the Upside Down at the end of the Season? I know that’s a huge stretch. I do have a bad feeling about this as a whole and feel like the season is gonna end in tragedy just like Empire Strikes Back. I’m very scared for Robin. And I feel like Mike’s a ticking time bomb with all the eerie foreshadowing. And also…

How does Will know about Vecna’s plans? Has he already met Vec before? He sounds thoroughly confident, not like he’s guessing. It seems very similar to how he knew about the Mind Flayer’s plans when he was possessed in Season 2? I hope that means Will is getting his main character arc back and maybe getting powers? If Will is the Leia of this story, he would have powers just like the Luke of the story. Or maybe it’s related to him touching his neck and his increased sensitivity to the Upside Down? Or maybe he’s already been Vecnaed? I hope it doesn’t give credence to the theories that say Will will become evil or become a host for Vecna? He also looks somewhat eerie/evil in the clip, but maybe that’s just the lighting. Especially considering all of the eerie parallels to Vecna. I want Will to get powers, but not like this…

There is of course the nightmare scenario that Noah and Millie’s infamous interview was actually true, and there is no coming out scene, and they still leave everything completely “up to interpretation.” The Jonathan scene could still be a coming-out scene, but who knows? I know we’d mostly stopped fearing this after all the positive Byler calendar stuff, and I really don’t believe they’d do that to us after all of this promotion, but it’s still a nightmare Vecna scenario…

BUT there’s still Mike’s monologue. There’s still almost four hours of content. Mike WAS acting weird for a reason. There’s still Noah’s saddest scene. There’s still more people to get Vec’d. The Upside Down was frozen when Will went through for a reason. There’s still the Melvin reunion, which can go in so many different ways. And I still wanna know why Noah used the 🍆 to describe the season 💀

[starbylers]

Speculation about potential spoilers—related to the leak we just got but some extra info you might care to hear

Okay about that leaker’s reliability: yes. I’ve also seen multiple people on Twitter claim that they’ve been wrong about stuff in the past & then tried to cover it up allegedly, so like…it is possible they have something that's just plain wrong. It's also possible they just guessed at it, because it’s a pretty obvious observation someone could make and then later claim they were right when it inevitably happens. Or it’s possible they do have something real but it’s missing a lot of context (cause I don’t believe for a second Will has an endgame new character love interest lol). In which case yeah I agree about the possibility of a side character.

So I’ve always sort of theorised that that could be one of the ways they hint at Mike’s feelings before the reveal. Given they just rebuilt their friendship and promised to be a team and all the visual foreshadowing to emphasise that point, it makes a sense Mike would be unhappy at the prospect of what he sees as Will replacing his spot as "best friend" even if he doesn’t understand why it bothers him so much until he realises his feelings later on.

If it was to be a more substantial plot point it could begin before the season does to avoid taking time from the main story. One of my theories has been that the boys drift somewhat over the skip because of everything they’re individually going though (Dustin with Eddie, Lucas with Max, Will with Vecna but also his sexuality issues, Mike with stressing about El who’s stressing about Max and Henry, and his relationship simultaneously coming apart at the seams), and that scene we saw with all their hands is a friendship reunification of sorts. It's possible Will could’ve been hanging around new people and met someone who's like him. Doesn’t even have to be a result of drifting, could just be someone Will crosses paths with now he’s back in Hawkins permanently. Possibly it could be something that we see in timeskip flashbacks, that's done/is about to be done by the time we get to present day because, well, many possible reasons (he's still dealing with internalised homophobia; it was just a minor crush or flirt/someone who liked him more than he liked them; he's obviously still head over heels in love with Mike—matches with Alex’s leaks you mentioned). Maybe Mike complains or starts an argument about this person later on when him & Will are inevitably working together because of the supernatural and that's when it’s hinted that he's jealous.

But it could also just mean a brief flirtation with someone like idk a classmate or someone in town, a one time or even few time recurring character, who clocks Will as gay and that Mike happens to witness and acts weird about. A very minor plot point (maybe even played slightly comically), main purpose to again give clues about Mike.

These are all just thoughts but to make a point that a "love interest" rumour can be interpreted in many ways. Generally I do think it could be positive for his development to not spend however long the jump is just being miserable over Mike and instead maybe getting some life experience. It could very well be a way for them to progress his self-acceptance arc, which we know is a major part of his story and the show's conformity themes. Although I think in any scenario it would be wrapped up by the first episode, after which his & Mike's relationship grows. The Mileven break up could hypothetically coincide with this. It also works with the leak you mentioned from the hopsital person from ep 2 about their ‘relationship developing’. I think there are lots of ways a "love interest" could be a thing without it being a hinderance to Byler's development.

Also: they’re nearly halfway through filming and we’ve heard nothing about what would be a pretty significant character if it was to be his genuine endgame love interest. There’s been no sightings or reports of someone unknown filming with the main cast. They’ve said no new characters and I know there’s been Linda & that kid but I think it’s more plausible they meant no new ensemble cast members like Robin, Eddie & Argyle. They were always going to need new characters for plot purposes, I don’t think anyone disputed that idea.

It honestly makes more sense to me that there would be an epilogue extra as a love interest rather than a fully fleshed out character who Will has relationship development with and ends up with, but I don’t for a second believe that is true either just because of the numerous analyses I've made of this whole story.

Also about Noah: he’s said a lot of stuff at different points in time but literally a month or so ago he liked that TikTok calling them boyfriends, and of course back in Jan he did the whole ‘Byler kiss….we’ll see 😉😉’ thing on his live like you kinda mentioned. I really don’t think he has a reason to string Bylers along. It’s not like he’s Netflix trying to market, and also he’s notorious for just being excitable and not being able to keep his mouth shut which tracks with the liking a romantic Byler s5 TikTok and also liking multiple TikToks asking if it was Will screaming in the leaked video. I swear he also spoiled Hopper being alive in s3? He loves spilling and I mean he’s the one playing the character, I’m slightly more inclined to put stock in the words/actions of one of the only people on the planet who 100% knows the whole truth as opposed to "leakers" especially this early on, who get monetary gain from stirring chaos and don't cite their sources. Also like you said he's capable of toning it down when he's unsure, like he said in the past Mike likes El and that he doesn't write the show etc, but since filming he's only encouraged the idea.

Anyway thanks for sharing! I def don't believe there is any true love interest i.e. someone he will end up with, outside of Mike of course (I don’t really believe the leak is legit at all tbh, I just like covering all the possibilities). I may be biased but I'm just that confident in Byler haha

Warning! Potential spoilers for Stranger Things Season 5!

This account has tweeted a ‘scoop’ stating that Will Byers will have a love interest in season five. I’ve seen varying reports on this acc’s reliability - otoh it has apparently revealed Marvel spoilers, but on the other it’s been called out for making up things, so it’s hard to say.

It has tweeted this in the past:

That RejectedScooper person is being incredibly unreliable. First they insinuate it is Mike:

the they deny it:

then they like a byler tweet:

However, while RejectedScooper is absolutely not reliable, MyTimeToShineH is more debatable. One stranger things stan acc on twitter, an acc which closely follows filming, dm’d then and was told only that it’s a ‘new’ character, with no elaboration.

I’m sharing all of this to paint the fullest possible picture, as I know many of the accs here aren’t on twitter. It’s worth noting that they’re on filming for episode 4-5 now, and no leaks of any plausible Will LIs have emerged… but the casting for the Turnbow parents didn’t get out either, only that of the kid who has a crush on Erica.

It could be a side character whose role is to make Mike jealous. Noah was very uncertain about byler when asked back when he had only the first few episode scripts - ‘don’t be sad if it doesn’t happen’, etc. Right before filming in January, however, he went on tiktok live and read out ‘byler endgame’ and ‘byler kiss’ comments - this is after he got up to episode 7. The video of this is in my Noah Schnapp tag. Could just be a ploy to keep bylers strung along, however, and I am remaining pessimistic.

I will be sure to update the byler tag again if we get more details on this!

ETA: One last note: if you check my other posts, you’ll see that the messages Alex gets are all straightforward about Will not being over Mike in the first few eps. There’s a leak floating around stating that he’s very upset when Mike is injured and that he arrives at the hospital in an awful state.

I have also personally seen, from a reliable source present during ep 2 hospital filming, statements that they’ve heard Will’s relationship with Mike is ‘developing’, that he’s more of a leader this season, and that Mike is having a self-discovery arc and is being more like the protector he was….

[strawberrybyers]

idk thinking about what the cast has said and all the details throughout stranger things, volume 2 doesn’t add up! idk something’s off. vecna gets to your head. he alters reality. maybe they’re portraying the events in a weird way because it’s not reality? like the 2 day time jump was really awkward. the cut to nancy, steve, and robin going through donation boxes was not the next scene i was expecting. it felt like something in the middle was missing. also, i don’t know if it’s because it had been 3+ hours of intensity and action, then it moved to a more solemn tone quite awkwardly and quickly, but when hopper and el reunited, i didn’t feel as emotionally moved by it the way i thought i would. the energy felt a little off to the point i was anticipating something bad to happen. i kept thinking “oh shit vecna is messing with el this isn’t actually hopper”, but no the scene kept going. we then see mike hug hopper. i’m sure mike does care and love hopper, so him hugging hopper isn’t my issue, it’s the fact he hugs hopper and we understand he’s hugging him because he’s been gone, but we know with will they’ve been separated too but he couldn’t hug will and yet don’t know why? this is the beginning of my villain origin story i stg.

and why did they make el and mike have this big “i love you” issue and have it be mike’s only conflict then the season ends and he says “they’ve barely talked to each other”? they never talk about anything ever lmao. that’s what i don’t get about their relationship. the season starts off with mike not being able to say he loves her, but then is able to when will tells him he’s the heart? why did he have to hear that from will? el was literally in tears, begging him to say “i love you” and he still couldn’t say it, but i’m supposed to believe they’re an endgame couple? 😂 i understand they’re 14/15 years old, but lumax is written really well! even suzie and dustin who have only had 4 minutes of screen time together make more sense. el and mike just barely have any development in regards to their relationship. mike doesn’t have any character development at all. they literally assassinated his character for no reason lol. also, el’s arc has been about her finding autonomy and i thought the way they’ve written her discovery to independence, finding family and loving herself was really good. i just feel like her storyline doesn’t fit in with mike. i’m sorry but there’s not much there in my opinion. we’re going into season 5 and they still feel like two people who barely know each other.

and since when can el bring people back to life? why did karen have her own poster if she had like 5 minutes or less of screen time? a poster is an advertisement for the show. the poster is giving a hint as to what will happen in the plot, but karen isn’t even involved in the main plot. she’s completely oblivious to everything lol. then noah said they’re building up byler, but in what way were they building it up? if anything they just brought it down. will and mike barely even feel like friends anymore. why are we going into season 5 still dealing with the nancy/jonathan/steve love triangle? then the parallels between will and henry/vecna/001 couldn’t have been coincidental, right? they both talk about not being able to fit in. they both have experience with the upside down. they even have will dressed like the child version of henry. will is one of the main characters who has an intense tie to the upside down and yet it hasn’t been fully explored for 2 seasons. why did vecna keep him alive? vecna never even mentions will. i’m just wondering in a very delusional way if there’s something else at play? could it be that volume 2 feels so chaotic and messy because it’s supposed to be? i have no idea anymore does anyone have any thoughts

[itsryuworld]

what happened with vol.2? I'm the only one feeling robbed?

what the hell happened with jason and his friends chasing the hellfire? suddenly became a "sinclair's hunting" out of nowhere. i don't get it.

what about stancy? robin said steve didn't know what he wants but then he's been thinking in his six nuggets with nancy bc always has been nancy? what?

max was robbed too! i love her so much, she did an amazing performance in "dear billy" but then?? awful. i prefer her to die than her staying in that position now.

lucas was there just to be max support? that's unfair, he deserves his own arc too.

why has karen his own poster this season? she didn't do anything relevant.

eddie died for no reason. he didn't need to come back, but he did it anyway. he was perfectly portrayed and everybody loves him but still someone needs to die and they don't take risks so there's eddie, let him die or whatever.

eleven was learning so much about herself, growing up and find her way, and then she's with mike again and everything gets awkward again. she has her powers now and she's bald, so mike can be her boyfriend again, seriously? don't do this to her!

and will, oh let me start with will! they made him dirty again!! he was there just to suffer and suddenly became a matchmaker for m*lvn despite his own feelings, so he's again hurting and sad, and they promised a will's amazing coming out scene (and it was sweet and significant, but wasn't enough) but it DIDN'T HAPPEND. "will's sexuality will be adressed this season" it wasn't. people are still saying he's not gay and he's in love with eleven. how can you do this to him again? stop it.

and what on earth happened with mike wheeler? i don't know him anymore. he's now eleven's boyfriend but nothing else. he's an asshole and he's useless at this point. he's just there to makes her girlfriend stronger with power of love. he's a bad friend, a bad boyfriend, a bad person even. why mike turns out this way? it's terrible, he's so unlikable now and its sad, i feel so sorry for him.

and what was so funny, though? the cast said things that never happened. we've been tricked? they talked about a lot amazing things but we got nothing. i am so disappointed, only two episodies but it was so awful and disgusting. not will vecna'd? no, even when we saw the harness? the swingset? the "trying to be normal in the pattern, he's trying new things"? nothing happend.

i just feel like vol.2 doesn't fit vol.1 for a lot of reasons. what the fuck they did? mike saying "a fight you can't back from" but then "i love you el, the day i meet you in the woods my life started, i can't live without you"

it feels so out of place, i'm sorry. everything was weird to me. but byler EVEN WIERERD. they set up everyhing for what? will sad and heart broken once again while m*lvn are the main couple for no reason?? and still it seems like byler could actually be something in s5 because we had some hints too! i'm so exhausted but still i'm a delusional for byler.

i don't expect my ship anymore, because they'll need to do A LOT of work to fix it after put mike to saying "meeting you in the woods was the best day of my life" with will stading by his side and despite that was will's worst time bc was taken to the upside down and was traumatized for doing nothing wrong in his life!!

byler vol.1 should be ashamed of byler vol.2!! they were crazy for eachother in vol.1, ready to jump into eachothers arms and THEN WHAT? mike was afraid to lose eleven that's why he didin't say "i love you" before? NO SHIT. doesn't make sense.

i'm done. you better make a perfect byler endgame explaining everything or just stop playing with our hearts and give will a boyfriend an let him be happy, duffer brothers!!!

[beepboop358]

Helloo, i'm probably just repeating what everyone else is saying but i need to get my thoughts out 😅

On the one hand, the only thing giving me a little bit of hope at this point is the framing of all the couples at the end. On the other hand, i didn't see a single real (as in obvious) hint of mike reciprocating, did you?

But okay, plot-wise, how could they move from mlvn to byler after such a big love confession? I know we can say it was weird or forced or just copy-pasted from what will said earlier, but i'm sure most casual viewers loved it and found it super romantic.

Unless they open s5 with a honest conversation between mlvn that ends in a breakup, i just don't see that relationship ending at all, and even if that happened i doubt there would be a way to develop byler in a satisfying way.

Alternatively the most i could imagine is mlvn break up whenever in s5 and then at the very end we have byler touching hands during an emotional conversation or sharing a long look and a smile.

What do you think?

Hey!

The framing at the end gives me hope too, but then I think about if they’re just oblivious to the implications that shot has or if its intentional queerbating.

I think if they’re going to do byler in s5, the only way they can explain that love confession is that everything Mike said to El, he meant about Will. It would be the only convincing way to explain to casual viewers why it wasn’t genuine, and even then it still wont be a great way to handle that, and i’m not even sure they’ll be able to handle ANY of the relationships well anymore. So much was under developed and not given the development it needed in s4, like barely anyone had any development… It’d also be the only way i’d be okay with byler happening in s5 now, because Mike saying his life started the day he met El, which was when Will WAS MISSING is such a horrible thing to say about your best friend. It’s so cruel. And Mike only saying he loves her because she’s dying and Will encourages him to? She deserves better, and if Mike is being genuine in that speech, then Will deserves better too. And Mike deserves better than his character arc being reduced to simply a boyfriend.

I don’t know how they’ll handle things in s5 at all.I could also see them leaving the whole thing ambiguous for both ships so they never have to address anything bc they seem to like doing that - and if they did that i’d lose my fucking mind!!

I hope we get the intricate byler development and m!leven closure i thought s4 would bring, in s5. I hope if they do do byler in s5, they do it right, and fully. But i’m not confident they will anymore. I hope we get a proper coming out from Will, a love confession from Mike, and apology to Will, and explain of what Mike’s been dealing with, healthy closure for mike & el, etc, but maybe thats just wishful thinking. I don’t even know if they’d fix mike & el’s relationship if byler wasn’t canon…

Thanks for the ask! I hope you’re well! xx

[shreya11111]

I just wanted to say the Duffers said the endgame couples will be obvious. I don't think anyone needs to worry. When Byler happens it will happen in a way people CAN'T deny it (even though they will still try). Same with open endings. They said no cliffhangers and open endings are pretty similar to cliffhangers despite not being the same. They said no new characters either. I doubt they bring back a random old character to be Will's love interest. It's obvious what route they are going down. And I agree, it would have been nice for Will to have had a boyfriend for experience since Mike had a girlfriend, or other crushes (maybe he has and we just didn't know) instead of Mike being his one and only who he unexpectedly falls in love with at a young age and wants to spend whole life with, because it gives off "I feel like my life started that day I found you in the woods... and I knew right then and there that I loved you" vibes BUT the key here is that Wills feelings developed over time, the duffers just provided hints for where they were going with that part of the story since the beginning (as they do with many other things in the show). Not to mention Will was there before El and Mike and Will knew each other for years, unlike Milkvan. So it wasn't love at first sight. I don't see anyone saying things like this about Lumax. Believe it or not, sometimes couples that start dating at young ages last. Is it common? No. Milkvan is a good example of puppy love and conforming to societal norms. They convinced themselves it was love at first sight even though we all know that's not 100% the truth (*cough* MIKE). Just as there are parallels, there are also non-parallels. Like Both Lumax and Milkvan started dating when they were young (in Caleb's words "Lumax isn't like Milkvan. Their love is real"), and both broke up and get back together later on. The difference? Lumax took time to grow and mature as people before getting back together, which positively impacted their relationship and they grew closer. Milkvan gets back together after 3 months cuz they are so used to being together, still have a lot of personal things going on and growing to do, which impacts their relationship negatively and they grow apart. So although there are similarities, there are also differences. Like... Lumax: Endgame. Millkvan: Bones. I really don't think we need to worry about Will getting heartbroken either. Guys... I can't stress this enough, the evidence is there. BYLER IS NOT LIKE THESE OTHER QUEER-BATE SHIPS. There's nothing else we as fans can do except hope. Will deserves a happy ending and he is the MAIN character (THE main character of S5) and although the Duffers love torturing Will, they know this fact too. The story has been written. Worrying about it won't change anything. There will be heartbreaking moments in S5, yes, but it will all come full circle like the Duffers promised. And the ending has been described as beautiful so many times. It will be handled. It's their job. The duffers are good writers so it will be figured out. The dots WILL connect in the end. It's ok to feel negative feelings but it's better to try and be positive, especially since we have quite the wait lol. Everything will be ok and if I'm wrong... then the Duffers need to find a new job or else I will shove a squeaker in their lunch and when they eat that lunch and swallow it every time they talk and breathe they will sound like a dog toy.

LMAOOO the endddd

no but seriously you’re right and no one should be doubting byler at this point. guys, come on!!!! byler is so obviously endgame there is no other explanation for this. i genuinely believe that the duffers know what they’re doing and that will byers will finally get the happy ending he deserves. i feel all this will lead to our success and milkvan’s downfall. i think we should definitely have hope, especially since hoping would make this waiting till season 5 just a bit more manageable! so yeah, anon you’re definitely right. lumax is definitely much more real than milkvan and overall just a better ship. this is why lumax and byler have so many parallels! they’re both endgame ships that are very real.