#byler doubt? never heard of that

[rawrx3ky-txt]

This just in, he will NOT like it :’3

He called byler weird 😭😭💛💙

[byleriscanon]

they're literally ALWAYS seen together😭😭 at this point byler doubts are just forgotten and WAY behind me

noah was filming the same day

there is absolutely NO WAY these two idiots don't kiss on the mouth by the end of the season. NO WAY

[rawrx3ky-txt]

“Thank you Ronald, lawyer sir.” We all say in unison

Never have I ever understood the power of we have a hulk so well.

We just keep winning 😌

[kittykat940]

Byler doubt? Never heard of it churchgate is so real 🤭

[sarafc]

I used to have SUCH Byler doubt. I just didn’t even think of the possibility of it happening, but ever since I got on Byler Tumblr, I feel like a totally new person. Like, Byler doubt who? Never heard of her.

[darkcrowprincess]

Byler thoughts and just in general feelings for the people that love Will:

I know in season one thats not Will's body coming out of the lake. But still god that image and everyone reacting to that. Especially Hopper, Mike, Lucas and Dustin. Especially Mike. Like that is a really good written angsty scene. The music slowly being heard, the kids hiding behind the ambulance. Hopper and Mikes reaction. Both denial at first. Lucas completely devastated, Dustin in shock. Hopper's denial turing into hopeless acceptance and defeat. Mike still in denial untill anger hits. Angry at El. Than he bikes home completely destroyed. Honestly Will should see a memory of this scene because he would never doubt that he is loved and wanted and would be miss. People love you Will!! They love you!!! Now imagine if you think about the manifestation theory, and if this scene was real except there is no El. If Mike saw this, I could totally see his manifestation powers coming out wanting to change everything. He bikes how and his powers just come spilling out of him because of his grief.

[rawrx3ky-txt]

Byler byler byler byler

friendly reminder that El’s first word to Mike was ‘no’ while Will’s first word to Mike was ‘yes’.

[wontbyers]

I saw someone talking about how Mike’s monologue to El gives them the most Byler doubt because it came across as genuine and romantic to the general audience, and I disagree only because of my own personal experience watching the show.

For the first 3 seasons, I was basically a GA viewer…I mean I reblogged some gifs on my old personal blog and made a couple Jancy edits but as far as being really involved in dedicated fan spaces, I absolutely was not. Never read theory posts or discussions, fanfiction or anything. I just watched and loved the show and more or less moved on until the next season.

I didn’t even know Byler was a ship or an option before season 4. Like literally had never heard or thought of it. Going into s4 I fully expected Mileven to be endgame and I was content with that—I wasn’t super into them as a ship either, but I thought they were cute and I was rooting for Mike to get it together and say he loves her after volume 1, feeling like it was the obvious and natural conclusion to that arc. And then volume 2 happened.

When Mike gave his monologue to El, it ended up feeling so wrong and unsatisfying. I was too hurt for Will at that moment to be happy about this Mileven scene, and it left me feeling hollow. I think it was designed to feel that way—yes, even for general audience members, not just people who were already rooting for Byler. Because that was literally my experience watching—it was an emotional let-down after having waited all season for it to happen.

So it really doesn’t give me Byler doubt, it genuinely sparked Mileven doubt in my experience. IMO, they weren’t building Mileven up, they were slowly deconstructing the idea of this couple and making it harder for the audience to root for them.

[love-byers]

Hey! I love love all your analysis that center on cinematography, writing and the themes of the show, but I really think Byler analysts should stop with the eyewitness parallel! The scenes are actually not identical at all, they just look similar in the wide shot with the car in the background, but that's it. The "I'm not gay like you" line isn't even in that scene, the whole thing has just been widely exaggerated by Bylers. I doubt Shawn Levy has even seen this show, it didn't have great ratings and was cancelled after one season. If we need compelling Byler evidence, I think it has to actually come from the show, or everyone else will discredit us. But many that's just my opinion, I don't know... Anyway, sorry for the rant!

it's not just the wide shot and the car, it's the silhouettes and the desaturated gloomy coloring

and you can't just write off the car. remember this is a tv show, everything has to be decided beforehand and placed there. or if it's cgi a team of people have to spend hours and hours creating it. with something as big as a car it just isn't an accident.

why put the car there? what was the reason? is has no relevance to the scene. it's in a weird place. it takes up so much of the screen behind will and mike. so why even put it there at all?

they did it because it's a reference to a piece of queer media. the show having some bad reviews and being cancelled doesn't mean it can't be paralleled. i remember seeing philkas A LOT in 2016-17. and at that time there wasn't THAT much blatant queer representation, especially rep where the show is all about them.

and shawn levy is a director, a film person. you can't just assume he hasn't seen it because it wasn't the most popular show ever. the ST writers showed us a board with every inch of it covered in names of different movies and shows that they took inspiration from for s4. and a bunch of them are obscure, unpopular, low budget movies i guarantee you've NEVER heard of. because that's what film people do, they watch and study film.

and i do know about bylers exaggerating what lukas says in that scene, and im assuming you said that because yesterday i posted about the parallel and used a picture where it references that. i shouldn't have used that picture, i honestly didn't think anyone would read it. i just wanted a pic where it at least said that phillip and lukas are gay and explained eyewitness.

and if you're right and this is just a coincidence, then it doesnt even matter because there is piles and piles of evidence within ST that supports byler

[lucystark12]

tbh i think the reason i have so much byler doubt even when i know in my soul for a fact that it's real is because i am so deeply traumatized from game of thrones. literally i was able to comprehend at age eleven that the game of thrones ending was bad just because everyone was talking about it, from my parents friends to them, then i watched it for the first time a few years ago and fell deeply in love with it just to have my heart inevitably torn out from my chest and to be laughed at in the face by david benioff and d.b. weiss. i was literally gutted. it hurt me to the core of my being because other than stranger things i have NEVER put close to that much stock in characters. stranger things is the only show i have ever loved in the same way as i did game of thrones and also the only show whose characters i have literally depended on having the right endings. game of thrones has taught me not to trust writers and has made me EXTREMELY apprehensive about the ending of stranger things (specifically mike's arc, who i see so much of jaime lannister in that it literally makes me physically ill)

what i always forget about game of thrones though is that there was a clear reason for it being bad- it's because game of thrones is based off of a book series that isn't finished yet, and when the show runners ran out of genius george r. r. martin plots to adapt, they were given the reigns. and they clearly didn't understand their characters.

david and dan weren't given enough time and source material to give the characters the endings they deserved. they simply didn't know how to do it right, essentially "marvelifying" game of thrones into just a box office hit with expensive fight scenes and dull characters. they never got to set up the VERY important things that have to happen to finally get the characters to where they need to be.

matt and ross ARE. NOT. THE. SAME. these two wrote the original concept for the show and have been the ones in charge the whole time. shows like this don't become famous for being big and loud and dramatic, they become famous for having compelling characters, which is quite literally at the heart (haha) of every story. unless you are literally telling a natural disaster story, your plot is determined by the people who are a part of it. this is why you can't write a fulfilling story by just making something random happen, you have to make your ending coincide with the endings that make sense for your unique characters and what will help finish their arcs. dan and david didn't have the proper set up yet, but matt and ross do.

at the current moment, all signs point to byler. i mean, we know this. there is literally no reason that it shouldn't happen now, that all of this incredible writing and symbolism would come to a head with a rejection at the end. matt and ross haven't run out of source material, they are award winning writers who know what they're doing. there is no reason for them to waste time on plot lines that will essentially just hit a wall with no conclusive ending in the way game of thrones did. dan and david heard "subvert expectations" and took it the wrong way, subverting the character arcs that had been build up for literally decades instead of doing what is george's real plan, to subvert the tropes and commonalities that we see all across fantasy writing and even at most times in the real world. stranger things is also in part about subverting expectations, but matt and ross understand what it actually means to take on that title. subvert expectations- subvert REAL and CONCRETE societal norms, not the way the human brain and heart function.

[justablogger234]

something my friends and I were talking about.

so the other day my close friends that I have on discord which mostly consists of @mike-haters-dni (who is definitely my discord best friend and or mileven sister 🤣) @chaotic-theatrical-weaver (my sweet little kiddo friend who is just adorable and too smart for someone younger than me) and my mileven sister @purpleangelsele. The discussion we were having was about how some people mostly b$lers, heck I'd even include some mike haters who believe that as well, they were saying that mike and elevens relationship kinda reminds them of the born se** yesterday trope (forgive me but I don't like saying that word at all even in text so I took out the letters).

And at first I didn't know what that was, i thought it was a song or even a movie cause I'd never heard of that term before and then I watched the very helpful video on this trope and let me tell you that I was shocked. Like very shocked that people would go as far to say that mike is one of those guys. How dare you morons say that mike and els relationship is based on or even reminds you of this trope. Guys. Mike was just a kid when he found el. They are both quite literally KIDS. They were both 12 years old when they found each other. It is very much implied that mike never had much or any luck with girls, I doubt he even cared about girls cause he had the boys and deep down he falsely thought that no know girl would ever like him.

Then he meets el and all changes. It's not like he was telling her that kissing is really good and healthy or that she should listen to everything he says. No, he gave her a name, a home, food and clothing. Now that I think about it, a detail I never took into consideration, I will discuss that in an immediate follow up post. Mike gave her everything she needed. But most of all, he gave her options, he gave her a choice. He never forced anything on her.

He never forced her to find will, he always asked her what she wanted or needed. Bottom line is, if you really think that mike is someone that would take advantage of El like that then you need to rewire your brain.

Because first off, you're implying that mike is some sort of disgusting pervert who would take advantage of a young mute special girl. Second, you're also implying that El would be a willing victim. We all know that we is sooo much smarter than everyone else thinks, I think deep down she'd know that this boy is trying to take advantage of her like that, she's very intuitive.

So if mike is such a weird pervert who took advantage of El or keeps on using her. Why would you want him with will? You see? That's quite a convenient argument. But seriously, the mike hate and misinterpretation needs to stop.

The mileven hate and misinterpretation also needs to stop. You guys need to stop twisting a young and special relationship just to fit your narrative. Leave these kids alone and stop making them something that they're not. If you use this argument just to support your pathetic byler arguments then you definitely need to rethink yourself.

Even will would be disgusted with you fools for thinking of pathetic arguments like this to discourage mike away from el just to get with him.

[rawrx3ky-txt]

“She's always on the phone, Mike won't stop whining about it.”

Agrh

Will doesn’t know how much Mike has been trying to call him and it physically pains me whenever I remember that.

[insertsacoolname]

heyyy I have a question, assuming byler will be endgame, everyone always asks byler fans how they think eleven will react to it so I've heard it many times but my question is - how do you think the whole team will react to it when mike "jumps" from one member to another, do you think that byler endgame could destroy their party a bit? I'm not asking about it in terms of the LGBT relationship ofc,but do you think they would have a problem with it because Will has been Mike's friend since kindergarten - the rest of them have known him for a long time too, do you think that making Byler endgame at the very end of the series in the last season could cause some problems in their party - and if that happened, do you think that the st fandom would start hating on Byler for "destroying" the party? Let me know what you think because I've been thinking about it recently 😭❤️

Let's go with Byler evidences rn, I think that El have kinda doubt that Mike might like Will (not saying this from surity but I just have this speculation). If Byler becomes endgame then I think wouldn't be angry but disappointed with Mike, that he never told her truth. And if that happens then I want them to have a little conversation where Mike tells her how he feels and El tells him how she feels. At the end I think she will accept him as how he is. About the party, it's little complicated for me to explain but I think they will accept him aswell (he still would have to explain a lot to Max lol).

Since I don't want it to happen so suddenly, I also believe Mike would get vecna'd (actually I want him to be vecna'd lol), there is a theory about this on YouTube by lesbianmindflayer, so I would suggest you to watch their video.

It won't break the party because they are friends since their childhoods (especially Will, Mike, Lucas and Dustin). They would be understandable of Mike and Will. Max might take some time to process all this but El would try to tell her that she doesn't mind and have already sort things out with him.

And about the fandom, well I think the homophobic ones would blame more. So Duffers have to be very careful while making them endgame.

[cringengl]

Hey!! It's the byler music fairy!! What are the songs you most associate with byler, Will, and/or Mike, and why??

(sorry for the lack of emojis... your askbox wouldn't let me add them D:)

aaaaahhhhh I have a couple of these haha

for byler, my fave songs for them i have is fly out west by yot club, which is literally s4 byler. like mike literally flies out west at the start of s4?? lmao. there's also lyrics like

Well, tell me, do you know?

You're all I dream about

Take it from me, I'm too dumb to recognize your doubt

Well, I don't wanna go

I'm in too far to leave

Tell me how you live so easily, young and naive

and

Talk bad, who's that?

Walk back to your place

I think you fake that smile that's on your face

which could honestly apply to both will and mike, one being all the other dreams about and being jealous about how naive they are, and also both of them faking their smiles, mike because of his failing relationship with el and will pretending to be ok with it.

ok so for the second one is true blue by boygenius, and although the title screams will as the chorus says that the love is 'true blue', which is obviously mike's colour, there's a bunch of lyrics that connect to both of them.

lyrics from mike's pov:

You can't help but become the sun - will has a bunch of light symbolism throughout the series, especially in the last ep where the light shines directly onto will from mike's pov

When you moved to Chicago, you were spinning out

When you don't know who you are, you fuck around and find out

When you called me from the train, water freezing in your eyes

You were happy and I wasn't surprised

i can totally see mike thinking that will was happier and trying new things in lenora without him, especially after the lies el told mike in her letters and then mike being a little upset about it.

this part is from will's pov:

Now you're moving in, breaking a sweat on your upper lip

And getting pissed about humidity and the leaky faucet- digging the grave for unnamed hero agent guy haha and creating el's mind fight bath

You already hurt my feelings three times

In the way only you could- it's not my fault you don't like girls, the lack of letters/calls when will was in lenora, and the rink-o-mania fight

You've never done me wrong

Except for that one time that we don't talk about

Because it doesn't matter anymore

Who won the fight?

I don't know, we're not keeping score

these lyrics also have major it's not my fault you don't like girls vibes.

and then finally from both of their povs:

But it feels good to be known so well

I can't hide from you like I hide from myself

I remember who I am when I'm with you

Your love is tough, your love is tried and true blue

Ooh-ooh

this is major painting scene vibes, with both will and mike feeling understood by the other, and not hiding from eachother.

finally, to finish this super long post off, here's a song that is soooo mike wheeler coded that literally every lyric can be applied, forever dumb, by surf curse. it's all mike's pov

I would run away from you, if I could

Never really wanted to, but I guess I should run - the first two lines obviously correlate to will and how mike feels about him leading to him wanting to run from him

I would fall in love with you, but I can't

It's too hard, maybe we'll just pretend- the next two lines are about his relationship with el lmao

But it's hard when I don't know what to do

I'm angry and I'm tired and confused

I got so many thoughts stuck in my head

And none of them make much sense- big big big mike vibes

I said I would follow you, but I lied

Don't be mad

Well, at least I tried- 'follow you' is both related to crazy together as well as mike's relationship with el

I never had a spot for you in my life

Which was true

Till I heard you cry- mike meeting el for the first time and taking her in or byler meeting at the swingset

And your tears dripped down your face into my eyes- either the van scene or el telling mike that he never said i love you

I'm sorry and I hate myself this time

Cause I got so many thoughts stuck in my head

And none of them

Make much sense

anyway, tysm for the ask!! (this was my reminder to change my anon settings haha)

here are the three songs!!!

[evil-ontheinside]

S5 speculation byler fic recs!

stars by the pocketful by @thesapphicbard

Whatever it is, it’s okay, he tells himself. It’s just Will. It’s just Will, and it’s just them, laying down in Mike’s childhood bed, face-to-face, and Will knows him better than anyone, Will loves him–

He’s safe, here. Even with the storm brewing outside and the very obvious end-of-days knocking on their proverbial doorstep, he’s safe.

It’s just one innocent, small touch.

So why does it feel like leaping off of a waterfall?

In which Mike is cringe, per usual, and Will could care less.

moth to a flame (or a lightbulb) by @apatheticlexicographer

It was a memory, Mike realized, his fingers smoothing over the arm of his basement couch. Probably a pretty old one, but he couldn’t quite put his finger on which. Was it before that November, or after? His eyes were heavy, the room around him fogged up like an unfocused camera lens and washed to sepia. He couldn’t make out enough detail to date it past the nebulous timestamp of sometime, ages ago. It felt like home regardless.

“Will?” a voice whispered into the umber gloom.

Or; Mike has a dream.

The Hospital, Nancy and My Mom's Cardigan: All That's Left of My Family by @dinitride-art

They don’t tell you what to do when someone you love might lose someone. They don’t tell you about the distant look in their eyes, and the broken voice that you’ve never heard before. About how you had to help carry his sister's body and drag him to the car. A car you barely know how to drive. But you have to get her to a hospital.

Even though they left someone behind. And he’s crying, breaths coming out like they’re cutting out his throat.

But Will has to fucking drive.

To Hell and Back Again by @perexcri

After Mike unwittingly stumbles into a series of interpersonal bombshells, he immediately sets out to find Will so he can find out what, exactly, that painting meant, and why Will lied about it. Unfortunately, Mike is obsessively obstinate and relentless to a fault, and he'll go to the literal ends of the earth to get the answers he needs.

Or: Mike and Will's Apocalypse Romcom Spectacular

outlined in guilt, my portrait stares (in a gallery where the walls lie bare) by @catboy-cabin

Though Mike hasn't seen many of Will's paintings – not recent ones, at least, and especially nothing like this – there isn't a doubt in his mind that this is one of them. It has all the hallmarks of Will’s style, in the depth of emotion displayed by the eyes alone; in the way Mike's freckles are much more visible than they have any business being; in the dark lighting and drab colors that Will always uses to depict the landscape of his trauma, when he just needs to get all the horrific images immortalized by his brain out.

(It hurts, to find himself rendered like some monstrous thing straight out of the Upside Down.

Mike probably deserves it.)

or: vecna has a tempting offer for mike.

Meet Me At the End of The World by @likegoldintheair

Will reaches out, places his left hand on Mike’s neck and says, here, breathe with me. His right hand gently pries one of Mike’s hands open from the grip he has on Will’s arm, and he laces their fingers together, placing both of their hands on his own chest.

Breathe with me.

So, Mike does. He closes his eyes as he feels Will’s chest move beneath his palm, feels him breathe in and out; the soft flow of it, the calmness, the familiarity of it all. He tries to match it, tries to slow down, tries to let the air stay in his lungs a little bit longer. Tries to breathe out.

@bylerficrecweek

[castlebyersafterdark]

are you concerned that MBB/El will be in the church scene? I was hoping it was gonna just be byler and was really feeling churchgate, but now i’m starting to get worried. I’m sorry, I’m easily prone to doubt 😅

Well I wasn't concerned before? Are there rumors of her being on set? I have lost track of where we are in filming after going off grid for a week and even when I'm around, I'll admit she's the lowest priority to track the whereabouts of anymore to be honest. Because I'm not super interested in her filming schedule now and because I've become pretty confident that she's separated from the characters I care about for most of the season which is fine by me!! I'm... not very prone to doubt. Might be a bad thing in the event we have been played for fools. I just can't dwell in it!! It'll make me so anxious. So I've chosen confidence and I'll save all the big emotions for literally watching the show and if all goes to shit, well. I'll act like a hermit for a week and then just go turn to the internet to complain about it forever and write numerous fix-its until boredom satisfies me hahaha. That is my entire gameplan.

What is the latest filming rumor because the last I've heard was Noah, Finn, and Jamie rumored to be involved with the church set but you know, I can never tell what's conjecture, wishful thinking, or confirmed. How can anyone confirm until paparazzi offically see the actors on set, though, and I thought that was happening this week upcoming? I don't think we can really use words only as proof of anything because anyone can lie but a picture can't. Unless you're a super wiz with photoshop while still able to make the photo look bad haha