#but we as the audience are meant to understand that rhysand is just as bad as if not worse than tamlin

[themoonking]

my mortal enemy that talentless charlatan sarah j maas does this thing that a lot of subpar writers do, where she doesn't write good and bad actions, she writes good and bad people. and it doesn't matter if one "good" character and one "bad" character do the same exact thing, or even if the good character does worse things, if the good character does it its a good action and if the bad character does it its a bad action. doesn't matter what the action actually is.

both the other characters and the narrative itself will condemn the things that the "bad" character does, proving that this is something that society in this world condemns, but those same exact characters, along with the narrative, will praise the "good" character for those exact same things. which is not only hypocritical, but also just shitty writing.

[ofbreathandflame-archive]

Well, again, the issue is not that Rhys has done bad things, it’s how those actions are framed in the story. Let’s think about this – if Rhysand’s actions UTM were framed as negative then perhaps we would not be having this conversation.

Of course, we can argue that Rhysand (1) has developed negative coping mechanisms / perspective (2) Rhysand’s trauma informs the things that he does (both pre, during, and after UTM), and (3) Rhysand’s position was uniquely isolating because of the nature of the role he was forced to play. These are points that I believe can be argued and offer an interesting view; but for any of that to happen, we have to acknowledge that the behaviors are negative. That’s often the problem with the arguments that begin to arise – no one wants to admit that Rhysand has developed (or just has) negative qualities and behaviors. No one wants to contend with the reality of consequences. “Rhysand has always admitted that he would be willing to do terrible things for his family” – and yet there’s no elaboration on those “terrible things.” No one wants to talk about those proposed negative qualities. The story (and the audience) don’t want to admit that Rhys doesn’t really have a solid moral high ground over Tamlin, or admittedly other villains. Just because Rhysand “admits” he’s prone to basically being abusive doesn’t…make it any less abusive.

My proposed argument about Rhysand’s actions UTM are this: he chose to sexually assault Feyre, he chose to “protect” Feyre in ways that were extremely sexually explicit. I believe these are choices that Rhys chooses to make – and I believe they say something about him. It’s noted, to me, that Amarantha scarcely makes Rhys do anything that he does to Feyre. I also believe that his actions regarding Feyre were done with an air of autonomy; as in, I believe Rhysand takes these measures into his own hands. Ultimately, I believe that while Rhysand has to contend with the horrors, he himself becomes beholden to them at some point and ends up perpetrating the same behaviors.

We cannot argue that Rhysand sexually assaulted Feyre, and then argue that it doesn’t say something about him. It does. In the realm of the story – from a writing standpoint – I think a good author can still make a character like that sympathetic and understandable (see: Nahadoth and Itempas from N.K. Jemisin’s Hundred Thousand Kingdom). If I were analyzing Rhysand’s actions, I would simply make the argument that perhaps Rhysand’s abuse of Feyre mirror’s his own abuse by Amarantha hands, and he potentially sees Feyre (and her hope) as something to be threatened – or even shamed by. If Rhysand’s actions were written in a way that clearly exemplified that his actions are not meant to be praised (and are NOT are reflection of love) then he could be salvaged. I actually believe a lot of the abusive things Rhysand does makes sense given the environment and if the story leaned into this from a storytelling perspective and did away with needing to moralize, then this would all be fine. Framing Rhysand’s abuse of Feyre as something to be praised, admired, and loved for is actually quite insane. If we frame his actions as purely preservational and self-serving, that would make so much sense. Imagine being in Rhysand’s position; I guarantee everyone would do whatever they could to stop such extreme amounts of abuse and sexual violence. And even then, the story could still create a narrative that warns of the danger of sexual violence and consent, it would just be subtextual and more allegorical than concretely written in the text. Starting Feyre and Rhysand off in such a tragic place, having Feyre and Rhysand acknowledged truly what happened, having them discuss ways for both of them to move forward while building up the mating bond in the background. Have Feyre acknowledge this untrusting, sly, slick part of Rhysand and have her not assume her mate does everything out of the kindness of his heart. Build their romance out of a place of mutual atonement – play on the theme of guilt Feyre feels and the whole premise of the court. Let the connection between Feyre and Rhys be that they truly acknowledge each others darkness (and also let Feyre do selfish things – maybe she knew damn well Clare Beddor’s family might suffer a bad fate but its not her family and Feyre would do anything for them; Let Feyre kill those fairies with ease because she cares about her life. Let her contend with reality that she would actually do anything for her family and then have that be a connection between Rhys and Feyre.

Something that has always bothered me about the “we don’t talk enough about Rhysand’s trauma” argument that gets thrown around when we earnestly discuss the validity of his actions is the presumption of innocence in that statement. The unwritten statement is that the trauma somehow explains and simultaneously absolves him of the implications of his actions. I objectively agree with the sentiment – Rhysand’s trauma is not talked about enough and it should be. The argument dancing in the corner is the fact that people believe that Rhysand’s extreme amount of trauma absolves him – even going as far as essentially say that Rhysand’s abuse operates out of fear (or because of fear) which is essentially the exact same ideology the book bashed Tamlin for. In the end, the cycle just comes back around and the abuse gets pushed into the backdrop.

[alectology-archive]

hey, I don't know where to talk about this so I'm venting to you, I know you have talked about this already, but I really don't like the darklina ship or the people who ship it for that matter because they are constantly defending and glorifying Darkling for the things he has done I know they say that they are not harming anybody with shipping characters that are purely fictional, but you know I remember loving Rhysand from ACOTAR when I was 14 or 13 and thinking the things he had done to Feyre were okay and was for her own good because the fandom shipped them so hard adored Rhys so much but I've now realised how wrong I was about it, I just think that even if these ships are purely fictional they shouldn't be glorified or shipped like this because these YA novels targeted at an audience in the age range of 12-18 and teens are very easy influenced by these novels don't you think fandoms behaving like this are harmful to young readers?

I understand where you're coming from and I definitely feel that adults being involved in fandoms meant for kids and not being careful about the way they interact with said media is an issue. I romanticised a bunch of toxic relationships as a young teen since so many ya books have very little self awareness and pass off abusive relationships 'as true love' so I can also relate and it's basically why I really dislike darklina. 

I don't necessarily think that all the people who ship it are not nice - some of them legitimately just want to theorise about a dark!alina au and they acknowledge that the darkling is a messed up guy - which I don't mind in theory. But it definitely is um, quite a Choice considering all the horrible stuff he's done in the books and especially disgusting because alina's a minor. What's really alarming about an overwhelmingly large proportion of darklina shippers is that they believe he's a good guy who just uses violence to achieve his goals which not only removes a lot of nuance from his character but also grossly understates the extent of his distasteful actions in the books: he abuses several women, grooms and manipulates a bunch of people (a lot of them minors...), actively tries to seduce a minor (while impersonating another teen on one occassion), murders innocent civilians etc to name a few. A lot of these things take place off-page and are slightly toned down in their portrayal because it's a series aimed at teens as young as 12 so I think a lot of people are able to conveniently ignore the fact that the darkling actually really, really sucks (I still stand by the fact that the books makes it pretty clear he's horrible - but we know that fandoms are wacky and choose to ignore parts of canon just because it isn't to their taste).

And it's also kind of really clear at this point that a lot of darklina shippers are attracted to a dark and handsome fictional white boy and use alina as a self insert to live out their fantasies? And basically do alina's character a lot of disservice when they discuss her? It's not even that they choose to ignore how alina is overwhelmingly empathetic and especially protective of people who've never had a voice but that they literally couldn’t care less about her and just want her to be the person who 'fixes' the darkling and saves his tortured soul and like. I don't have to explain this lmfao because this trope is literally the worst thing to exist and there's a lot of abuse apologism involved in it (even that aside alina canonically gives the darkling multiple opportunities to stop being a jerk and he refuses to change. even if he had I don’t think I could’ve forgiven him after what he did to genya and baghra). So yeah! It's annoying and tiring that a lot of people want to ship him and a minor together and try to pass it off as him being so deeply in “love” with alina that he would to tear apart the whole world for her or whatever (which is again false because the only reason he sought her out was to manipulate her into working for him - and when that failed he literally enslaved her to his will). It's in especially bad taste when you consider how leigh's spoken about the darklina dynamic being loosely based on her experiences with abuse.

Eh anyway I didn't expect this to get so rambly and I’m not even sure I answered your question right but tldr: you’re right and I wish people in fandoms would be conscious about the kinds of relationships they ship and especially how they frame the narrative around it. It’s also important for them to be aware of the audience that is consuming the media. 

[roguestarsailor]

After SJM Live suggesting that Feyre might be pregnant in ACOSF, I can't help but feel uncomfortable and bit angry about this.

I loved following Feyre’s journey. From her beef with her family to going into the woods and being this amazing survivor to handling all that was thrown to her UTM and then healing over ACOMAF and then handling the war that was in ACOWAR. But some point in ACOWAR I started reluctantly rooting for her and in ACOFAS I really didn't want to root for her anymore.

I think one of the reasons why I'm mad about Feyre on the surface level is that she is done. Having a child generally means settling down and feels definitively over. I am not mad Feyre’s story is over but rather she thinks all she has left to do is to pop out babies. in ACOMAF, Feyre dreamed about being able to paint and to open her own studio and eventually teach. She accomplishes that in ACOFAS. But it feels like there aren't smaller problems associate with that? She became High Lady, yet we see her do paper work but never the leg work required to handle the massive size of the Night Court.

Lets backtrack for a bit.

Feyre grew up having to survive. She had to fight for her survival as well as her family. She spent years being the sole provider. 

From the start, she doesn't know the true story of what is plaguing the Fae lands. Spring Court however became her sanctuary. She had the time, space and resources to just paint. There were times when her life was in danger but to some degree she sought out that danger. The Suriel, Rhys at Calamai, going UTM. She was happy when she was with Tamlin.

After UTM, this was the biggest shift in her character. She felt broken and she recognized how terrible her actions were. She felt guilt and regret. She no longer wanted to paint and again, sought out something to do. She wanted Tamlin to tell her what was happening post-Amarantha. She still felt anxious and carried around her knife. She felt restless. We hate Tamlin here because he was dismissive and not recognizing what Feyre needed. Again, she is trying to be active participant in Spring Court; she isn't the type of person to sit by and relax.

“I was not the human girl who needed coddling and pampering, who wanted luxury and easiness. I didn’t know how to go back to craving those things. To be docile.” (ACOMAF, pg122)

While w Rhys and IC, she recognized that she will always have to fight. Feyre can't be what Tamlin wanted! Tamlin wanted someone who wanted to just paint and garden and be homey. Wanted someone who embodies peace and gentleness (honestly a bit like Elain but I won't go there). Right then and there, Feyre realized how wrong Tamlin was for her. She won't sit by and relax and be gentle. She's hard, she's rough and she's scarred! She was the first of her sisters to fight. She survived so much and endured so much! 

“[Realizing what it meant if she went back to Spring Court after Rhys + Mor took her out after Tamlin locked her up] Bring me back to silence, and those sentries, and a life of doing nothing but dressing and dining and planning parties” (pg 127)

She wants to be apart of the planning and the scheme and just in general know what's going on in the Fae lands. Tamlin doesn't let her do much other than love a life of peace (aka paint). Remember the part when she says I can't believe I let Tamlin believe that Spring Court was all there was to see?? Yeah that was such a punching fist in the air moment! Tamlin was stifling her! With Rhys, she was able to go to significantly more places, learn more about the politics of Prythian, practice her power freely and unrestricted! she was doing sooo damn well in ACOMAF!  

“But the sprawl of the city...worse, the vast expanse of dark beyond -- the sea...maybe I remained a human fool to feel that way, but I had no realized the size of the world. The size of Prythian, if a city this large could remain hidden from Amarantha, from the other courts” (pg 155)

“I’m thinking that I must have been a fool in love to allow myself to be shown so little of the Spring Court. I’m thinking there’s a great deal of that territory I was never allowed to see or hear about and maybe I would have lived in ignorance forever like some pet...I’m thinking that...I might have fallen in love with the first thing that showed me a hint of kindness and safety. And I’m thinking maybe he knew that--maybe not actively, but maybe he wanted to be that person for someone. And maybe that worked for who I was before. Maybe it doesn’t work for who--what I am now.” (pg 156)

When she is healed up, mated and has her fighting spirit back, she goes into Spring Court to be a spy and see what's up. She's active again. She's choosing to fight there so her found family in Night Court has a chance. She plays the part and survives. And she further survives as she makes her way back to Night Court w Lucien. She's a survivor through and through. She even said that what bonded Rhys and her was their endurance -- they will endure what is to come.

Settling down and being a mom doesn't feel like Feyre. She is only 21 years old! She hasn't seen the world. We, the audience, got a chance to see the world when Feyre was finally freed from Tamlin’s clutches! ACOFAS made it feel like Feyre is satisfied w her life where she spends a few months accomplishing her goals and thinks having babies is the next best thing. I understand and love Feysand but having babies so soon is not it. She’s a fighter through and through. I get wanting her to have a place to build her home and raise a family is cute and such a lovely bow on top of all that she’s been through but it's not Feyre's character. She's gritty and rough and is restless. She cannot be satisfied so fast?? Or am I wrong to see that???

Even Miryam and Drakon with their legendary romance, they aren’t settling down and popping babies. They spent their time hiding and prepping for the next war because they know that their work isn’t done. They also know they have centuries of life left! To believe that Feyre’s end game is just having babies?? No! Besides that Night Court was spearheading the war effort for Hybern in the beginning so they aren’t the type to sit back and chill (not to mention literally the wealth of drama that is coming from what to do with Hybern’s lands, to Human and Fae integration, to Illyria rebellions, internal court drama, etcetc).

I’m not saying having babies/being a mom is a bad thing. I just dont think its Feyre’s character and I would be disappointed if that was what her character arc turned out to be. I understand that the ACOFAS was suppose to be a ode to how Feyre is the opposite of how she started out but we’ve spent this entire series telling us Feyre is forged by the unluckiest circumstances and growing and healing despite that. To have her revert to a homemaker (her 3 houses), to reduce to stories of her having (low key cringe) sex with Rhys, to spend her days spending money and living in the epitome of luxury when she found that stifling in the beginning is character assassination. 

I hope we don’t have to hear about Feyre getting pregnant anytime soon and I would be deeply sadden if thats the path SJM takes her. She has so many centuries of life and adventures. Why is she reduced to living in Velaris and think thats the best life she can have is having babies? I want her High Lady title to have impact and not just because she’s mated to Rhysand. I want her to explore the intricacies of the Prythian and beyond. I wish ACOFAS showed her going in that direction but it didn’t and it makes me deeply sad. So I hope in ACOSF we don’t hear about Feyre and her sweet little life (but I might be wrong there).