#but this is the big Tarlos addresses their problems episode

[pimento-playing-hopscotch]

🤐🫣🫣

[ramblingdisaster73]

I like that we're seeing a petty, asshole-ish side of Carlos. He needs to have flaws. I just don't like that we're probably not going to see a resolution to it. TK was clearly beat up (emotionally) by both himself and Carlos in 4x03 in order to up the drama, like you said. But there is no way it's going to be addressed in 4x04. There just won't be time. They're gonna show Carlos's ordeal, TK finding him, and then an emotional reunion. And then we move on to Marjan's and Grace's storylines in 4x05. And then we're probably not gonna see much of Tarlos until we get them happily planning their wedding (possibly with some lingering health concerns for Carlos). Like every single time TK and Carlos have fought or had problems, Carlos's actions will be swept under the rug. Idk maybe I'm wrong, but this is my prediction based on 1) the amount of story left to tell and the amount of time left to tell it, and 2) the track record of the show's treatment of TK and Carlos. And it's kind of depressing.

I totally get that. I felt the same way about how they totally romanticized Carlos buying the loft as a “surprise”. I also agree that we won’t get an on-screen resolution to the attitudes/treatment, at least not in 4x04. I totally agreed with TK that it was a power move, however well intentioned it had been, it was a power move (which I have thoughts on too – especially in light of him being legally married at that time).

I think that there is a possibility of Carlos saying something to someone other than TK about it, or maybe a reference at some point by the 4x08 “Control Freaks” episode. Similar to how TK worked through the break up (well blaming himself for it only) in his coma dream – I think we will get Carlos admitting his mistakes to Andrea or someone like that. I could be wrong – but this show LOVES it’s parallels, and that would be a good one.

It sometimes takes me several rewatches of scenes before I can truly appreciate them. I love 3x13 – it is a beautiful episode that truly showcases their love and growth, but some of the scenes were harder to watch for me at first – we just hurt for both of them, because we care about them. But, after doing my analysis, picking the episodes apart piece by piece, truly dig into the characters and their motivations, then I truly enjoy them.

That is how I was Tuesday night watching 4x03. I knew going into it that it would be rough. And it was. But I have watched it several times now, I appreciate each scene for what they are – more pieces to this big puzzle that is Carlos Reyes.

The hard part about loving these guys so fucking much, is that we want to see EVERYTHING, but they can only give us glimpses of their life with the occasional larger treat – but like Ronen has been saying there is way more Tarlos this season than ever before, so maybe we will both be surprised and get something on screen – but if not, then I know that myself and a bunch of other writers will be filling in the gaps with all the fics we can dream up.

I wish the show didn’t put so much of the blame for pretty much everything on TK, but another show I am a huge fan of, did the same thing with one of their main characters for 7 seasons – it didn’t matter who else participated in them, who else helped make the choices – this one character took like 94% of the blame for every decision made. It was maddening, there were never any good choices, so all decisions kinda sucked & had shitty consequences.  I have just accepted that TK is that character for this show, as frustrating as it can be. At least we have Ronen to portray him as wonderfully as he does.

[the-ghost-of-jason-todd]

aight SO

i finished ep 12 and i've talked about it with a friend, and now i've also taken a look into the tarlos tag to get a sense of what people are saying. i think i'm ready to break this down.

so there are a few big questions about That Scene and the following tarlos interactions. i'll just work through them one at a time. buckle in, this is gonna get long. now without further ado...

1) Was TK lashing out at Carlos at the firehouse in character?

Short answer: yes and no.

Long answer: we've seen TK get physical and even violent before. He literally sought out a bar fight in s1. He nearly got into a fist fight with Judd, too. And did you see the way he was hurling darts after that, when he and Carlos were on their date? This boy is not a stranger to getting physical. There are, however, a few major differences between those scenes and this one with Carlos.

One. The bar fight was premeditated, while his fight with Carlos was not. Why is this important? Because it means that TK has shown some measure of restraint in the past. He managed to stay present during what I would call the 'trigger' of the bar fight episode, and saved his physical response for a later time.

Two. His altercation with Judd, on the other hand, was not premeditated. The difference, then, is that Judd was also ready to get physical at the time. With the scene with Carlos, Carlos was trying to remain calm and impartial for most of it, and attempted to de-escalate when TK got violent. The whole thing was driven by TK.

Three. In none of the scenes we've seen before of TK getting violent has his dad's health or safety been threatened. TK's dad is a HUGE part of his life, and he has a LOT of emotional trauma surrounding his relationship with his dad. He's TERRIFIED of losing Owen, because he's nearly lost him so many times before. TK has some MAJOR anxiety about losing people, to the point where he refused to let Carlos into his heart at the beginning of s1. There's also the fact that TK has gone through a lot of trauma in not a lot of time. Even if the show wants us to believe the kidnapping is over, I'm willing to bet that the after-effects are still hitting. For both TK AND Carlos, honestly.

There are also two other lines to consider when we're talking TK's characterization: first, in the episode when Gwyn moves out, and we see her and TK talking, she then calls Owen who asks if TK 'flew off the handle' (i believe that was the wording, correct me if I'm wrong). This is important because we have two people who are VERY close to TK talking about how he reacts to things, the crux of which is that TK gets reactionary. He has high emotional responses and says (or does) things that he doesn't necessarily mean.

Then there's another line that I think is important. This is the one in the crossover episode, when TK tells Buck that he's 'done a lot worse than steal a fire truck'. This one is important because it's TK talking about HIMSELF. We don't have any context for this or what it means, necessarily, but I'm willing to bet from context that he wasn't just talking about ODing.

So with all this in mind... do I think TK was in character? Do I really think TK would do this? Well... it makes sense in the context of TK's story and his arcs and all the scenes we've seen him in so far. But, at the same time, I would definitely have done it differently. It's a thing like... it's not a WRONG answer, but then again, was it really right, either?

2) Was Carlos's reaction to TK lashing out in character?

Short answer: yeah, I think so*.

*though if they don't expand on it I'm gonna have a problem.

Long answer: Carlos, at this point in the story, is dealing with two things that I think impact his emotional landscape a HELL of a lot.

One. His past and his family. He grew up with a man who seems emotionally distant, and it has only VERY RECENTLY started to get better. He felt INCREDIBLY alienated after he came out, and then when he became a cop and he was dealing with his father's silent disapproval. He is always searching for approval and, most likely, affection as well. What this means is that he feels like he constantly needs to prove himself, and bases his self worth on how OTHER people react. If someone reacts badly, that's a mark against himself.

"But Kay," you say, "What about the scene where he made dinner for TK and TK walked out? Carlos didn't blame himself then!"

Which is an interesting point! Carlos didn't put the onus on himself in that scene, he turned it back on TK, calling him 'crazy'. I think that was a secondary coping mechanism, to be honest. He knew he couldn't deal with feeling like he was the one who was wrong AGAIN so he twisted the situation around in his head until it was TK who was 'being crazy'. I've talked about that scene in depth before so I won't do it again, but Carlos's reaction is, I think, indicative of having felt rejection before and trying to protect himself.

Which brings me to number two. The fact that he's nearly lost TK several times already. This plays a HUGE role in how Carlos acts, especially with TK. Carlos has wanted TK LITERALLY from day 1, and since then he's nearly lost him how many times??? Enough, at least, that I'm fairly certain he's now holding on too tight, even when it comes back and hurts him. He just... he seems to have this mentality that if he's in he's ALL in, and he's not allowed to back away or put any distance between them, or else he'll lose TK for real.

Because we've seen TK pull back and get some distance before. We saw TK take a night away after their fight about the farmer's market. Maybe not with the best communication, but TK was angry and he needed space, so he left. When he did that, however, Carlos was convinced that they were breaking up. Like, CONVINCED. You cannot tell me that Carlos didn't think the worst in that moment.

Now why is THIS important? Easy. Because Carlos and TK may be moving forward in their relationship, but they are at a point right now where they react to things in fundamentally different ways. TK kind of bounces between becoming reactionary and going distant (again, we saw this in s2ep8 very clearly), while Carlos has reached a point where he kind of doubles down on holding tightly to TK even when he maybe shouldn't.

Basically, when you boil all this down, Carlos is DESPERATELY trying not to rock the boat, with his parents OR with TK, because he's scared of everything coming apart. And I think that makes sense with this episode.

The problem, then, is that this is a coping mechanism. The narrative has set it up as such. Which means that he's going to have to address it at some point. If he doesn't, I will be FUCKING PISSED, believe you me.

3) Did the narrative address that scene with respect, dignity, and nuance?

Short answer: I DON'T THINK SO.

Long answer: TK is human. He's a recovering addict. He's had problems with feeling numb in the past (that line about how everything is gray), which, I think, makes his feelings just THAT MUCH BIGGER when he does have them. So clearly, he's going to make mistakes. The question then is, was this particular mistake something he's learned from, or was it just used for the drama?

I have two reasons to believe it was the latter rather than the former.

One. Judd's reaction. Judd telling Carlos to get out of the firehouse after TK hit him, as if Carlos was the bad guy in that situation, was dramatic as hell. TK and Carlos are pitted against each other in that moment, and instead of mediating, Judd picked a side. Which is, ironically enough, the first thing that I think was NOT in character in that scene.

Judd, we know, is a bit of a hot-head, but he's also very empathetic. Judd was shown trying to mediate between Billy and Owen the last time the two of them had an episode together, because he understood both sides of the story and he cared for both of them. Why do I think it should have been the same this time? Well, because he loves TK and Carlos BOTH. They were both in the group hug at the hospital after the Ryder's car crash. It wasn't like Carlos stayed back, okay--JUDD CARES FOR BOTH OF THEM. And I think, at that point, that Judd would have seen the fact that TK was spinning out and Carlos was trying to stay objective and known that he needed to de-escalate. It would have been SO EASY to have that line be "Okay, okay, both of you step back and take a breather." He could EASILY have mediated. But he didn't. And that was a specific choice that leans more toward drama than anything else.

Which brings me to number two. The fact that they don't talk about it on screen. We had a hand-wavey 'we agreed no apologies' and a hot and heavy make-out scene instead. The writers wanted the drama of the two of them being in bed together while the fire started, and in order to do that they sacrificed the screen time it would have taken to actually have them have a conversation. Because, again, it would have been SO EASY to write them actually talking about it. They've done it before! After their fight about the farmer's market and Carlos's parents, the two of them have a WONDERFUL conversation. Why then and not now? Well, to make the fire more dramatic, to up the stakes one more time.

So no. I don't think there was any respect. I don't think there was any nuance. TK made a mistake, because he's human and he has some problems with emotional regulation, but there were little to no repercussions for it where there really should have been. There was no respect coming from the firefam for Carlos, either. There were no apologies, or further comments, or anything. And honestly... this season has done a lot toward making me feel like they don't give a shit about violence. Judd hitting that kid in the bear trap in the wild fire episode, Judd hitting the drunk driver who drove him off the road, Judd punching Billy when he thought he was framing Owen, and now TK hitting Carlos... all with no repercussions or apologies or even discussions about them... it's not a good look.

And there you have it. The writing makes sense. It does. But it's also really clear that the writers' priorities have changed. I really, honestly feel like the show has lost something since season 1. There's been a massive tonal shift, and I don't like it. The fact that we keep having Event after Event with no reprieve, have sacrificed conversations and interpersonal relationships for Drama, and have started killing and maiming characters with wild abandon, sometimes with seemingly no reason... it's all just a Lot. I have enjoyed watching season 2, but it's not sticking the same way as season 1 did. I'm not letting myself get attached to characters at this point because clearly we're not in a found family show anymore. I don't care about them the same way I did before. I can’t bring myself to do it when it’s becoming clear that we’re not going to slow down and actually process anything anytime soon.

[lonestarbabe]

Hey Elise! I apologize if you’ve already answered this but I just found your blog (so hi! I love it!). But what are your hopes for season 2? Tarlos related and everyone related. Again if you already answer I’ll just scroll!

Helllllo!! I’m so glad to see you here! Welcome. I’ve answered it at least in passing (my tag season 2 expectations has some posts on this) but I don’t know that I’ve ever listed it straight out so here we go...

More information in general on Marjan, Paul, and Mateo because I feel like I barely know them. So in general I’d just like to see some personal storylines for them. And I’d like to see them behind just their identities ( DREAMer, Trans man, Muslim woman). I do want to see storylines related to these use ties (because you can’t detach those things from them) but I also want to see them deal with other things because they’re much more than those identities and surely attribute other important things to themselves so I’m interested to see how the show will balance those storylines.

More of Grace independent storylines where her issues are actually addressed and it all doesn’t revolve around Judd. More of who she is and what motivates her. I also love seeing her do her job and help people who call 911.

I’d like the show to at least show that Judd is not fully over his PTSD because even with therapy I don’t want it to just drop off. They can ease how often he has issues because that feels plausible but I don’t want them to just forget it.

Flashbacks! Maybe not like the ___ begins. But I do love a good flashback and seeing where characters came from.

I want Owen and TK to address some of their lingering issues because I don’t think that’s at all resolved because it seems to me they kind of push their issues away, and TK avoids it because of things like guilt and not wanting to hurt his father (who already has cancer) more while Owen went through a terrible trauma which clearly still impacts him in certain ways (which I guess is what I want to see from Judd too to show these things never just stop impacting people)

Carlos development and seeing him as a character outside of Michelle or TK. I also feel like I don’t know that much about him other than he’s a lovely man.

Domestic Tarlos is a dream of mine. Just want to see some tender moments and conversations separate from something purely dramatic.

I want to see Tarlos talking through issues. I do not like the idea of an in and off and back on again relationship that shows love to use for couples (that tend to be toxic). Please just let the relationship drama be normal couple stuff and not have them break up just because they get into a fight.

I hope to have a better Michelle storyline that gives us more into some new parts of her character because I feel like we didn’t see her outside of the Iris thing enough. Although, I wouldn’t be mad about more Iris in general I just don’t want it to overwhelm the story.

To see something happen with the Owen cancer storyline. I feel like it’s been glazed over a bit but at the same time, I’m not sure how they’re going to handle it or how I would want this to be handled because I have mixed feelings.

Some kind of addressing if TK’s mental health issues because I don’t think those have been resolved and I’d like to see maybe therapy or something to do with his addiction. I mean he really has some serious issues and they seem somewhat chronic so I’d like to see that continue into season two because his problems still feel very fresh. He too has been through a lot and was just shot so I want to see that emotional pain and him working through some things.

I want to see the characters being dynamic. I want to see them being multifaceted and reacting to various situations. Some of the characters are flat so far just because we haven’t seen enough of them. I want to see them be great but I also love seeing flaws (like Carlos needs flaws also Owen needs to be shown in maybe a light where he’s not always the hero and he has some darker moments because while we get glimpses that he’s not perfect, these complaints are often brushed aside because he’s a hero like with the convo with TK, so basically I’d like him to take accountability for some of his wrongs).

More team bonding!! I want to see them teasing and being there for each other. I want to see their relationships grow into deeper ones. We’ve taken a lot of good steps forward but I want to see more support and love. Perhaps even some friction that normal families would have.

BUTTERCUP. I’ve said this before (and I don’t really expect it) but an episode through Buttercup’s POV would be so cool.

More of the paramedics!! Because they’re pretty cool.

Lots of cool calls. And I’d like them to have that same dark humor that a lot of them did in season 1 because they had me laughing so much!

Cute Tarlos moments galore, showing them getting to know each other and growing as a couple and I also want vulnerable moments where we see them opening up to each other. COMMUNICATION in general is just so sexy and I love it.

Carlos making those dry, sexy comments would make me happy.

Some beautiful written scripts like the finale.

Lots of parallels. I loved how many season 1 had and I loved how cohesive many of the episodes were.

Great dialogue in general and diverse conversations between different combinations of characters.

I’d like some visually powerful scenes where actions and the setting and cinematography speak louder than words.

(Kind of like the one above) Subtlety... I love subtle moments that really tell a lot and hint at things without being explicit. I don’t want it to be completely in code or vague but moments of this is beautiful.

I don’t want the drama to be too overdone when it comes to the characters’ lives (though writers tend to be dramatic) so is like to see them dealing with common problems (which may feel huge and can be shown that wya through good writing and what these things mean to the characters). You don’t have to have a big explosion hurt a character to show a character going through stuff.

I like angst but not when it doesn’t lead to anything. So all angst should some how develop the characters because I love character development. I don’t want the characters to stay the same. I want to see that they change and adapt and ultimately grow even though they may make mistakes or relapse or backtrack.

Thank you for giving me the chance to let these all out, Nonnie!