#but they treated woc like SHIT as well

[theghostofashton]

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[punkeropercyjackson]

Jason Todd and Hunter Noceda-Deamonne have the same fandom problem in the sense that they have excellent writing and genuine redemption arcs but unfortunately they're surrounded by poc and women and especially woc who're important to them with pretty much bo revelant white characters that aren't their antagonists and that gives their hardcore stans media blindness thanks to seeing them as edgy white boys and nothing else so to them their casts may as well not exist and they just can't help but feel like they'd work better with other white boys and plainer white girls and for the woc to not exist outside of them-And mind you,'Noceda-Deammone' as a last name for Hunter isn't even an actual tag despite Camila and Darius being his only parental figures.This is pretty bad for Jason and Hunter themselves because it erases them as good examples for how white people should behave around and treat minorities who're constants in their lives and also just generally makes them not as interesting due to it being used to turn them into power fantasies and packaged tropes and nothing but quirks and this is exactly what white DC and Toh fans want for them since they refuse to grow up and get angry at woc and kids of color in the fandom in particularly for not caring for their behavior because they're used to us taking it lying down

Very happy to have to be the one to tell you this but Hunter never even looking in any white boys direction in favor of Gus' mutual found brotherly love with him,only ever loving Willow,being adopted into Camila and Luz's family,Darius becoming dad who never hurt him unlike Belos and never rivaling Amity over Luz because a boy and a girl looking at eachother once isn't a love triangle and Jason not giving two shits about Tim because he's too busy being bros with Duke and Damian,rejecting any white girl who tries to throw herself at him because he wants Rose,Artemis and Dana and choosing Talia and Stephanie as his mother and Batgirl without ever considering anyone else isn't 'wasted potential'.Us-meaning the people who their stories are actually about,the poc and girls and girls of color you refuse to let exist-telling you stop being bigots for your dogshit fics isn't 'harrasment'.You just don't get what you want this time so SUCK IT UP like you always tell us to after coming into OUR spaces

[menalez]

just know that women of colour, especially middle eastern women, are seeing how silent you all are in criticising this genocide denialism. how so many of u liked and reblogged it and treated it as a fun little debate. how many of u spoke loudly on october 7th and even equated palestinians as a group facing collective punishment and ethnic cleansing and genocide to hamas whenever anyone on radblr showed a sliver of sympathy for palestinians. how many of u, despite pretending to care consistently about women's well-being, were completely silent on what palestinian women are facing today. how many of u jumped in to dogpile a woc on radblr for supporting palestinians and showing concern for palestinians. how many of u were quick to lie that another woc is probably a holocaust denier among other lies due to showing concern over the genocide palestinians are facing today.

"radical feminists" yet you're standing for a US-backed, western-backed settler-colonialist state partaking in a genocide against an indigenous population after already ethnically cleansing that population and persecuting them for decades.. "radical feminists" but you were quick to support military violence. "radical feminists" but you only cared about the israel/palestine "conflict" in terms of the attacks on october 7th but did not give a single shit about the events prior or after that date, about the suffering of palestinian women. ur feminism isn't radical, most of u politically align so strongly with the right-wing and don't even live by most of ur values nor do u actually do shit for women anywhere in the world.

[buttercuparry]

I know sometimes most of us are just playing around in the fandom without any insidious reason. Hell sometimes things are just a vision and we all want those visions to see the light of the day, and there truly isn't anything wrong with that! But if a fan of colour is commenting on your post about something that might be a concern of theirs and you know this concern is related to matter of fandom racism, I don't think they are doing so to personally attack you about something. And if it indeed does feel like a criticism and you know you didn't mean your art/post/whatever else to express any sort of discrimination, I think just talking about it simply can help clear things. You don't even need to go into an explanation. It's really that simple.

I know fandom can get heated and hell despite our best attempts, back and forth tangent of discourse happens. But the way the fandom treats fans of colour not just in the asoiaf side of tumblr but everywhere-it's a bit disheartening. You have people mocking a fan of colour in tags of a post and going "all this discourse for lily white starks". Well you all don't really listen or even acknowledge unless fans of colour are loud, do you? And when they do get loud, you all start having problems.

"Lily white starks" was the point of discourse. That's what many of us who are PoCs in the asoiaf fandom have been saying. They are all the most ashiest whites to have ever whited and race bending is cool as fuck but they aren't 90s animal cartoons where you have two cats having kittens and half of the litter has orange fur while the other half has brown fur. But somehow the character whom fanon deems to be "plain" ( never mind the text says the opposite), whose gender identity gets questioned every now and then ( even though in text they specifically state what they identify as), is drawn racially ambiguous while her siblings look like they don't even have a drop of melanin-you bet fans of colour are going to feel a type of way about this. And till now I haven't seen any major discussion regarding this, not even a peep of acknowledgement that it's a bit weird that the fanon trajectory where people shout "let (redacted) character be ugly" and then this (redacted) character and all who look like her is drawn with brown skin. But wait there's more! The "Helen" of asoiaf universe, even though is said to look like this (redacted) character is often argued to have looked nothing alike at all. So you see how all this shit evolved into the discourse under that art post right? Like it's not like this discontent was bred in a vacuum.

Even now when a new fan comes into asoiaf fandom, after a few months around they know what the dead ladies club is. Because it is that discussed and it should be because Grrm is shit like that. But dead ladies club evolved from being a genuine criticism to a championing a kind of womanhood that posits itself as the best of them all. And this mentality continues to this day and the race bending of certain houses comes from that. You have a fandom that dislikes one of the most important characters so much, that every thing they do is considered a devastation. This dislike is based on the fact that she doesn't really fit in with the kind of womanhood that's considered traditional. It has been literally witnessed how this character has changed the fantasy genre's notion of the "chosen one" but you have dudebros crying foul. And thus anything related to her is bashed more than it deserves to be and you have one of her deceased family members being presented as the devil incarnate. The woman this dead man has supposedly wronged is suddenly a woc, and the whole of the kingdom she belonged to is also a representation of poc culture in fanon?? Like do you see how exploitative this is? And then to further drive in the notion of evil, there came the dominant headcanon where one of the most priviledged and bloody houses in the fictional asoiaf universe is made analogous to real world indigenous pocs who are still fighting for their rights in their own country. It cannot get more batshit insane than that.

I genuinely believe that certain characters were initially drawn in darker shades out of a personal artistic vision. But then this got twisted by the fandom at large to suit their supposed intellectual narrative and bnf artists just simply followed the trend never questioning anything and years and years of this practice got cemented as natural and canon. Never was it questioned why a character ( and all who look like her) who is falsely fanonized as violent and ugly is drawn shades darker and why another character of whom we know nothing of but how violently she met her end is also a woc.

The most recent discourse that happened under the post carries a weight of this particular fandom history. I know there's artistic vision to consider which is why I personally try not to criticize an artist on their own post. This is also a fanart, something given to the fandom freely and I am of the opinion that if it cannot be celebrated then it should just be left alone. But what got to me was that how it felt like through the response there was this tone of trying to turn the tables on the fan of colour who commented. Like the sarcastic commentary on how there is an insistence on Valyrians being whitest white...like dude...hello?? Pretty sure this is on grrm and do you really think this person who is actively frustrated at the racist caricature would mind genuine attempt at being inclusive?! Like I have seen you around, I have enjoyed your posts, I think I even saw you under posts which criticized these particular trends while drawing certain Stark siblings, are you really going to pretend you don't know where the comments came from???

There is also the pointing towards how fandom casts all of dorne as poc and I think we have already established that this fandom is shit. Like I won't lie I enjoy my guilty pleasure of looking at Bollywood gifs representing Dorne, and I think there is this headcanony idea that Dorne is based on North Indian hindu hindi speaking culture. But in same post representing a particular house through this Hindu Hindi speaking culture you have the gifmaker using gifs of the Islamic hajj!!! Like ajaldleryjdlsldldlfg the headcanon then is the idea of amalgating brown bodies and meshing them in homogeneity because that's what we are all over the world right? 😂😂😂

Like I understand the frustration and you really got nothing to explain but it's trying to turn the tables for me (including calling a poc racist when they themselves were trying to address a racist issue)

EDIT IMPORTANT:

I am making this post non reblogable because the assumption on the basis of which I made this post was wrong. The person I have been referencing is a artist of colour themselves- so the core idea of the post isn't applicable. However I still don't know or can't wrap my head around how someone got dog piled on for a comment, and got called a racist ( a poc themself), when they have been one of the primary voices who pointed out many of the racist issues in the fandom.

[ceruleanwhore]

I'm getting really sick of the ways in which some people talk about consent and throw around words like 'grooming' and 'abuse' because it's starting to feel pretty insidious. What I'm talking about is this fairly recent progression with how we've gone from 'don't fuck teenagers' to 'you're not actually an adult until you're 25' along with how any (typically hetero) relationship with any semblance of a power imbalance is deemed 'grooming', with the woman being the 'victim.' It feels like people are just finding another way to infantilize women and, by pushing this narrative that we can't consent to many kinds of relationships, it starts to build back up the outdated culture of women not being able to consent at all.

Grown ass women being labeled as children just because they're under the age of 25 is bad enough, but then there's people who will talk about how age gap relationships are gross regardless how old the younger person is, so then it's also 30, 40, 50 year old women being treated like kids as well. There's also this thing where if someone just happens to look young for their age then people act like that person should never date anyone because, regardless of age, anyone who's interested in them is a pedophile. This particularly bothers me because it's typically said about women relative to men but not like twinks in the gay community or younger looking men getting with women their age, or even women who are older than them. It just feels like something that's presented in a way that's supposed to feel feminist, like the people claiming this are trying to somehow protect women when, in truth, they're just infantilizing us while ignoring men.

It gets worse as, recently, people have started to make similar points about 'power imbalances', one notable example being the Try Guys declaring that a grown ass woman couldn't possibly have consented to having a relationship with Ned because he's her boss. I think it's easy to look at isolated situations like this and feel that way but as soon as you start to think about it on a larger scale, it's so insanely stupid. If you truly believe this, then you also believe that anyone who's ever been in any sort of political office can never have a relationship with someone who hasn't, because of the power imbalance. Poor people can never marry rich, people of color can never have relationships with people of more privileged races (mainly white, but there is enough of a racial hierarchy that I can't really just say white), people can only have relationships with people who are exactly the same age, and disabled people can only have relationships with people who have the same disability/combination of disabilities.

Especially when you combine this with the rise of pro-segregation under the guise of liberalism and the recent push for people to stop having interracial relationships, it really does just feel like it's all about controlling women, especially WOC. That definitely checks out since it seems to be mainly white liberals spouting this shit and we all know there's a major issue with white liberals claiming to care so much about equality when they're actually bigoted as fuck and never bothered to actually unlearn any of that shit, so they can only repackage it to fit their aesthetic. I will also acknowledge that part of this is that women who have their own traumas want to prevent other women from going through what they did, so they say stuff like this because they genuinely believe that these strict limitations on (mainly) hetero relationships will keep them safe. However, that doesn't change the fact that this line of thinking is potentially very harmful and could send us back to 20th century rape culture. Hope enough people don't drink the Kool-Aid and this blows over soon but we'll see. Oh and yeah, don't fuck teenagers, that's still true.

[seerofmike]

i've never felt comfortable with the way ppl talk about loba. everyone calls her a cunt and a bitch for being a bad friend to bangalore. like yeah it sucks but like...i think it's more of a bad writing thing than anything else. also mirage is a shitty friend too but i don't see people say anything about that. it's just that the fandom hates woc and trauma victims who don't exhibit squeaky clean symptoms

literally this, especially over on reddit. i think loba HAS acted like a bitch before, but i love her for it, the same way i love bangalore even if sometimes she's a jackass, especially to wraith. to a lot of people though, women being mean=BAD, even though mirage was equally, if not moreso, ableist to wraith. like i've seen people on reddit legit go "mirage has always been such a nice guy", completely ignoring that the season 6 quests were literally dedicated to showing how much of an asshole he was.

but god, i remember s5, the broken ghost. everyone celebrating caustic choking loba out, calling her a bitch for getting their beloved white waifu wattson hurt. then when caustic was revealed to be manipulating wattson and being a traitor...suddenly crickets? suddenly "oh he's so misunderstood and tragic because he doesn't know how to properly convey love". FOH

to be honest though it isn't always as clear cut as women=good and men=bad, trauma victims like you said get treated like SHIT by the apex fandom when they aren't perfect sad babies. during TPS people were cropping one of octane's statements out of context and there was like ZERO empathy from half the fanbase talking about an abuse victim...*acting* like an abuse victim. and then this goes in reverse, too, octane stans coddling him while calling lifeline a cunt for the way she treated him.

like no!!! they were BOTH cunts!!! but also even if you think they handled their situation poorly can we at least extend nuance to the conversation because we know they've both been abu--ah, nope, fandom verdict is octane is just selfish for the sake of selfish and lifeline is controlling for the sake of controlling.

actually ive pinpointed the root cause while writing this, which is that like half of the apex fandom has the comprehension of a brick. since most of the female characters are actually well written nuanced people and most of the male characters are shallow as fuck, that's why there's a deep divide on top of the normal flavor of misogyny. because the apex community takes everything done at surface value and goes "wow loba is a cunt but mirage is my perfect little baby tho"

[rosethreeart]

I LOVE UR ABIGAIL ANALYSES the subtle differences in dynamics between characters always gets me heeheeing with a horribly evil grin on my face…

I feel like a lot of people tend to overlook how America being a woman would affect the way other countries–especially ones with shared history–interact with her in favor of talking solely about how it would change the way they View her. Which, don’t get me wrong, is a valid analysis; I looove “power hungry America who kind of scares the shit out of everyone”, I just think there’s a lot of hidden potential in the question of “how would people TREAT her as a woman?”

I know some people hc nations to be sort of “above” things like misogyny and racism because they’ve lived for so long that it’s almost below them at this point to even care anymore, but imo it’s the complete opposite. They’ve lived with/under those ideals for so long that it’s extremely difficult for older nations to really shake them off for good, so while they don’t go off spewing misogynistic bs all day, every day, they do still hold some of those fundamental ideals that (cough negatively cough) influence the way they interact with female characters. (Abigail, in this context)

I think a lot of older countries, especially ones with a heavy history of chivalry/“fair maiden 🥺” ideologies, would be MUCH more “protective” of her, so to speak, because of an ingrained perception of women as needing to be protected. So they’re not protective in a genuinely affectionate way, just in a “You can’t be mean to girls, dude!” way. Which opens up a whole other can of worms in regards to patronization + the way Abigail responds to that but I will Not get into in ur inbox for the sake of your sanity bc this ask is already way too long LOL

ANYWAYS ALL THIS TO SAY, I love your analyses and I especially love how you focus on the physical/ interactive dynamics between characters and not just other characters’ internal perception(s) of a character.

OH MY GOD THABJ YOU HOLY CRAP 😭💖💖💖

YES YOURE SO RIGHT!!! There are so many things that people don’t really talk about when it comes to the “if X was a girl instead”!!! ESPECIALLY when it comes to woc (which I won’t speak too heavily on as I’m extremely white(/white passing)

And while I do think that a lot of nations WOULD be more open minded I still think they have a lot of those negative beliefs ingrained in them still, just because they’re aware that the way society treats them is wrong doesn’t mean they’ve done all the work to unpack all those beliefs and how they’ve been affect by them as well as their role in the participation of it.

Like these are people with really dark pasts just purely based on the nature of their life spans and what they are (I’m not even gonna get into the whole cans piled onto cans of worms that the really bad and morally wrong stuff here). They’ve done bad shit and have been through a lot of bad shit. It would 100% affect the way that they interact with others and even view themselves. These are prideful creatures (for the most part I have options on how Abigail would view herself as a personification, person, and US citizen that beg to differ)! They’re all stubborn as hell and while extremely adaptive towards change (as it can quite literally be a matter of life and death if they don’t) but that doesn’t mean that they completely understand why the change is occurring or what that means for them as a person, let alone to the other nations around them.

also PLEASE do go into it id love to hear what you’d have to say!!!

The internal perceptions when it comes to characters is only half the fun!! What’s the point in analysis and delving deep into it if you’re not gonna SHOW how it affects their interactions! Honestly this probably comes from a place of autism and the need to mask heavily and trying to understand others perception of the world lmao.

[jewpacabruhs]

????? new ep was lowkey sexist. they pulled a huge double standard with how they treated meghan, calling her stupid/dumb, not even treating her as a person but more an accessory of the prince…and then the prince got a redemption arc. come on like that was pretty nasty no…and this is coming from someone who loves kyle focused eps. first ep of the season wasnt too bad tho. lets hope for more of that

[wrote this reply up right after i got this but posting 2 weeks later cuz i was meaning to proof read and post but i got busy)

i get ur perspective but honestly ive never thought to view south park thru a sexism lense or to try to condemn them for it. its satire of female and male celebrities is equally scathing, the men are depicted as similarly vapid and irritating. i don't think sp's history of mocking women is particularly targeted and nasty. as i said in my other post (which you sent me an additional anon about so i kno u read it), sp is about exaggerating things, not always accurately, to make a point. and sometimes that means portraying capable and normal women as, what, mid-00s MTV-type party girls? and sure, that's one of the many features of sp that's technically 'problematic', and the reason so many ppl have 'sp fans dni' on their blogs - but we're here, aren't we, watching this bastard show and trying to juggle watching it critically and enjoying the stupidity?

i dunno, im neutral towards meghan & harry, if anything i respect them, but i very rarely have actual firm opinions on the shit matt & trey choose to make fun of, and this was a situation where it was just their usual shitting all over their celebs of choice who i personally have very little opinion on, and i thought that what they were trying to say in the episode was good. sp's only ever been abt making an individual or group represent something, and then using it all as a way to bitch about a genre of prevalent stupidity. that's what this ep did. was it at the expense of a woc? yeah, and usually that'd be immediately condemnable, but matt and trey have pretty firmly made it clear they're in the "we can find stupidity ANYWHERE" libertarian boat. i have enough respect for them as satire-oriented comedy writers to believe that they're sufficiently capable of lacking bias or prejudice in who they mock, for the most part at least, and that's why i can't condemn them for it specifically. though i know that's very subjective, as im aware that lots of people don't think satire is clever and it's just thinly veiled bigotry. but i'd assume the majority of sp fans who actually care about the satirical plots would be attuned to where matt & trey are coming from.

im disliking the way im seeing south park fans on tumblr perceive episodes lately. people forget that it's a satirical show, and it goes so thoroughly over their heads. but ig thats what happens when smth develops a tumblr-type fanbase, and in this case it's at the expense of critical readings of a sometimes rather insightful show. but i digress. i rlly did think the first ep was terrible. this one at least had smth to say.

(update, as of 3/3: the most recent ep came out the other day and it was a tad boring but very much, again, fairly well-done satire. i didnt even check how ppl reacted to it tho, im not rlly caring lately tbh)

[sarah-cam]

Tbh I used to like when everyone got almost equal screentime on the show in the early seasons, we've had storylines for everyone. Now it's just a stuck and repeat of similar storylines with different characters. Fire has a lot bigger cast than PD, they can't afford to go the same route and do one or max two character focused episodes.

Noone is going to like every character on a show, I personally have nothing against Stella, she is an amazingly strong person, but the writing has been shit lately. We build up Stella to become a Lt finally with huge support from Boden and then he just questions her leadership like suddenly he doesn't believe in her? 🤔 We don't see Stella do any Girls on Fire anymore, not even a mention, last episode's troubled teen could have benefited insanely from the program. We don't have storylines that are hers. The whole own quarters fiasco was done with Herrmann and the helping a runaway teen was done with Gabby & Kelly & Bria. I'm pretty sure if they gave her a unique storyline the fandom would accept her better.

oh i don't disagree that not all the storylines have been original or anything! i was also frustrated with the way boden treated stella concerning the whole carver situation and even though this week was similar to gabby/bria, i still liked it because it was more imo highlighting stellaride's relationship and future as parents, as well as touching on both of their own personal lives -- particularly stella's growth in regards to no longer blaming herself for grant.

however, the criticism (at least that i've seen) has not been necessarily about the content of the storylines but the fact that she has them at all. the same happened with gabby -- it's a fact that people complained no matter WHAT she did (and STILL complain about it) and yet also complain anytime an episode isn't focused on their fave. yes, i get that not everyone likes every character, but the hypocrisy in the OC fandom across all shows is insane and undeniable.

and majority of the time, it's directed at poc or in this case, woc

[samswinchesters]

Heyy dw anon here. hope you’re doing good! Bit late on this review as my uni started up again and I am swamped already. but anyway. Episode 5. Want to preface this by saying I did really enjoy the episode. I am just a bit irritated with our girl Bernadette.

That being said loved the Chee and Bern moments. The whole she dated Elvis reveal had me gaping at my TV like??Damn Girl ok?? Thanks for sharing or good for you or? The writers are really trying to embrace the time period in the funkiest way possible!

Blond man is still being awful, Joe should have scalped him and called it a day but nooo some dumbass had to let Gordo drive the dude ALONE at NIGHT like ofc he escaped, who is surprised raise your hand! Need him executed asap.

then the whole thing with Dean was soso sad but so well done. His words to Bern about them not even being recognized as Americans obviously shook her entire worldview a bit.. and her giving him the necklace and a hug was soooo :((( her internal turmoil over Dean and the draft is so much worse in context with her border patrol job too like Bern I know you want to move up the ladder or whatever the fuck but jfccc get a gripppp. Atp I am genuinely concerned she’s going to leave like don’t you fucking dare!!

Like I get it. I do. Glass ceiling on the rez and all that. maybe she feels trapped (tho if that’s actually the case I would have liked the show to make that more obvious beyond her just saying “I want to find my own way”) And having modern day context for how shit the US border patrol is and how badly women and especially woc are treated in white-male dominated professions (and this is happening in 1971 to boot) helps to make it seem like she’s making an even worse decision if she goes. to me it’s a no brainer, I’m staying. But I really just think Bern doesn’t know any of that, or at least choses not to acknowledge it. Like she saw what happened to Jim in the FBI, come on now. and he warns her too this episode, “-I can come back” “Can you?” *silence*. He almost didn’t get to come back! Bern fr needs to make a weighted decision matrix and figure out her decision that way bc I think the lack of sleep is starting to affect her cognitive activity.

Anyway. Sorry for being a downer this week irl shit combined with the fact that the finale of s1 wasn’t exactly happy is giving me a creeping feeling that ep6 will be a rough one. Hopefully I’ll be wrong and we’ll actually get to see everyone experiencing happiness on our screens, but we’ll see!

everyone dont moveeeee, dark winds anon is back.

OKAYYY so we were a litttleeee off in our predictions HOWEVER I will say, in my heart I know what is chrew. that small scene of them sitting on the floor of her living room…….I currently live there in that moment nobody break the immersion for me. yeah, it was kinda weird for them to say that like at first I thought she was joking but no mames, she was actually being serious 😭

literallyyyyy not a bootlicker or whatever but iirc, cops follow a two buddy rule system so like, the fact that gordo probably gave himself the task of driving this sick son of a bitch on his own by himself bc #ego like omfg shut UP take someone with you, idiot 🙄 it’s like every time they try to shoot at the suspect and never shoot at the tires…these people are making the WORST decisions like if I were in that university, that blond man would nottt have escaped. we’d do a better job than the police -_-

omfgggg that part with dean and bern now THAT….moment of silence bc I almost cried LOL sorryyyy the emotions got to me again. if this was meant to push her into the border patrol route, oh, I’m shaking my fist because what is this show without miss. bernadette manuelito?? like, I’m really scratching my head at some of the decisions that are being made in this season. a part of me respects the route they’re taking, there are parts that I do love, and other parts where it makes me look around the room and wonder what everyone is thinking.

this show has always been bold in its message and like you said, I wish they had pressed more into those issues and leaned into the reasonings. I just don’t want bern to become some weird girlboss whedon strong girl because she’s always had that strength within her. it never had to do with the job, it’s about who she is as a person. exactlyyyy like why did she even apply in the first place when she saw the chokehold the government had on jim…….we need to go back to the drawing board…maybe a nap and a sandwich will do her some good 🙏🏽

don’t apologize for anything, babe!! we won’t always dig every single episode. it can be frustrating as well when it’s a show that you care about and they slip a bit and you’re like I know you’re better than this, girl 🤨 to me, I blacked out and only remember the jimbern moments bc the rest I was like, okay, we’re setting things up but I’m yawning a bit. finale day, everyone. and to those who already saw it on amc+, should I prepare for trench warfare or,,..

[desertgremlin]

Bestie, I just saw that post you reblogged and loled.

I'm having issues at work (too) and because I tend to bottle things up, I've been fuming silentely for the past week. It's also weird because there is another person who has my same position but had been there longer (so I'm seen as her "junior" even though I have the same amount of experience, probably more), so everyone always praises her and they kind of ignore me. And now two other people have started (same team, not same position) and they are being treated like darlings but I did not necessarily get that treatment when I started.

I actually hit the ground running and didn't need a lot of hand holding but ironically that doesn't get praise. I just get more work and responsibility. Not sure if that's just my experience or how WOC professionals are treated but it sucks! So def get feeling sensitive (though I bet your situation is different lol)

But I'm about to pop off today 🤣

Hope you're doing well ❤️ I always wanna message you but I'm like, "About what?" This is literally me finding an excuse haha

BESTIE!

I'm glad but also not glad you relate because 😤😤 that shit sucks!!

"I actually hit the ground running and didn't need a lot of hand holding but ironically that doesn't get praise." SO REAL. I feel like because you're so competent from the jump, everyone just treats it as a given and takes it for granted. So pop off girlie!!

The stuff I'm dealing with a the moment is a lot of passive aggressiveness and lack of communication - not always directed at me (but when it is. refer to that reblogged post, LOL) but it's the work environment as a whole and it is . NOT vibes. Like, if you're gonna say something just fkn say it straight!!!! I'd literally rather that than have to hear snide comments here and there.

But anyway! Other than all of that, I've been well and hope you have been too and omg you can LITERALLY message me anytime about anything and nothing hahah no excuse needed ❤️

[becomingpart2]

candy’s argument that the “white pilot robin” aka the (white) female protagonists always has the most stans out of the female characters on the show is honestly one of the wildest assertions i’ve ever seen. like obviously i agree that female protagonists are going to be treated worse if they’re woc, that’s 100% true. fandom treats woc like shit, especially if they’re a protagonist/lead/love interest. that being said, even in cases where the female lead is white, white side characters tend to be more popular. like on almost every teen drama i can think of the white female side character was more popular than the white female protagonist. dawson’s creek, jen was more popular than joey. gilmore girls paris was more popular than rory, and emily was more popular than lorelai. one tree hill, brooke and haley were more popular than peyton. the oc, summer was more popular than marissa. the only tv shows i can think of where the white female protagonist was the most popular are game of thrones (daenerys), buffy the vampire slayer, and veronica mars (where there were no other white female characters in the main cast that were around long enough for fandom to project onto them). and you know what? buffy, daenerys, and veronica still got tons of misogynistic hate even despite their “pilot robin” status. candy genuinely thought rory gilmore was the most popular female character on gilmore girls, when most of the gilmore girls fandom straight up hates rory. she also delighted in rory’s “downfall” in the revival and claimed the only reason people hated the revival was because rory got a bad ending (and how dare fans want a good ending for a female protagonist).

God, yeah. Honestly, it's so complex and difficult to determine how popular exactly one character is, especially with female characters that tend to be so universally hated regardless of their status. I think you can get to different results if you look through different lenses.

I think it's true that side female characters tend to be quite popular and garner more sympathy from fans (especially from the female fans) because they have a more "ordinary" quality that makes them easier for viewers to relate to. Protagonists, especially if they're women, tend to get less sympathy from audiences because they're "special"; they're at the center of everything, all the plot circle around their needs and wants and all the marketing of the show has their face on it. It's understandable why fans have more trouble liking them; people have a tendency to dislike people that are successful in some way and in the case of women, misogyny and internalized misogyny is an important factor.

So yeah, I tend to agree with you that protagonists and female protagonists are more likely to not be the most well-liked characters in their fandoms (I think you could even make a case that buffy is not the one in btvs, what with faith, cordelia, willow and tara's popularity)

At the same time, their faces and stories are everywhere and that generates a lot of engagement around their characters that 1) may cause the impression that they're very popular; and 2) will make fans mad when they think that attention is undeserved and should be redirected to other characters (the side characters that people can see themselves in).

[logicalstansadvice]

In fact, with FKA it was deeper because RP never took her side, never did anything for her and all the racism she received, she reveals this in one of her songs about them. He left her to the racists. But when a white woman isn't treated well by a man Aka Mil*y and Sh*kira, a lot of women take their side, but when it's a black woman, women pretend not to know what happened. Or they'll find excuses like RP didn't have sm.

Anon 2: I wouldn't wish a relationship with Seb on any WoC, because the fans are unhinged and frankly terrifying.>> I agree, but we have the example of Tom Hiddleston, he is married to a black woman. The white fangirls must be hating it, but he's with a beautiful black woman and has a kid with her, and he doesn't give a shit. If Seb wants to date a woc woman, date, but stand up for her if she needs to. Don't give a shit to the racist fans.

Anon 3: But on the other hand I wouldn't wish a relationship with Seb (or CEvans) on any WoC, because the fans are unhinged and frankly terrifying // While that is true, I refuse to let racist fans influence my wishful thinking. 👍 Also some WoC can handle the heat. Take Lucifer actor Lesley-Ann Brandt, a mixed-race African woman who married a white guy, and also an outspoken LGBT+ supporter. Her clapbacks at her worst trolls were a thing of beauty. They often took their account private after she called out their nonsense. 🤣

Anon 4: Maybe I'm naive, but I think the Post-Alejandra world is looking brighter. 😅 AW is getting very little hate for being a gf of a hot male celeb. The comparatively few weirdos are mostly staying in their own untagged lane, her comment section is still pretty clean. I think that there MIGHT be a chance that enough hateful and obsessive stans left between 2020 and now, to make dating Sebastian easier for whoever (if AW ain't The One) will get lucky in the future (esp when he get's further into his 40s, moves away from the MCU, stays off of insta, etc). Now, obviously AW is a white woman, but I'm still optimistic that a WoC would have a much easier time than before 2020 as well. 🤞

Anon 5: Even an actress of color just playing a damn role isn't safe from these loonies. They'll disparage the character she plays from start to finish AND harass the actress for the crime of touching Seb even if it's scripted. Adepero Oduye who played Sam Wilson's sister in TFATWS went through it, and all Bucky did was flirt with Sarah. // Oh no! I didn't realize that. That's so disappointing. I've been a Sarah/Bucky fan from the beginning. I hate to think of Adepero Oduye going through that.

Anon 6: I can't wait for this man to be married so that he stops being seen as "internet boyfriend". It's so mind-boggling to see all these girls "ooh I want him to date someone like myself because he's my fave internet boyfriend and I would feel so validated if he did that". Oh snort! If that's what makes you feel validated then you've got a serious problem miss.

Ruby Woo -

Anon 2: some of Tom's fans still have issues with Zawe despite her being unproblematic.

Anon 4: I am too old to be this hopeful.

Anon 5: add in the "Bucky just thinks of Steve's mom when he hears Sarah's name, so he couldn't be attracted to her" theories floating around the time FATWS came out 🙄.

Anon 6: some of Benedict's fans think his kids are fake. Some people refuse to accept the truth even when it is as plain as the nose in the face.

[brotherhand]

t100 spoilers // or whatthefuckever. 

anyway. i haven’t been on here in years. i’m pretty sure most of y’all moved accounts or whatever. but anyway i am fucking angry. i’m not even caught up on s7 but i know what happens and i’m fucking angry. 

bellamy blake deserved better.

but you know what, i am not surprised. the 100 has had a history of killing off its  lgbt+ and poc characters and this is not surprising. ESPECIALLY when it comes to men of color. wells, a black man, was set up to be the male lead. then he got killed off not even THREE episodes into the first season after being constantly used to prop up clarke white savior griffin. only for him to be replaced by finn fucking collins as the resident peacemaker? lincoln, another black man was killed off just because jroth is racist lmao. jaha, yet ANOTHER black man  (a fucking pattern if i’ve ever seen one) whose character went from being a well-written, multifaceted leader and engineer to “lol haha that’s just crazy ass jaha” then was killed off to prop up yet ANOTHER white savior. monty was killed off-screen (but at least his death wasn’t demeaning and it ACTUALLY served a purpose so.... i’ll give them that ig.) and let’s not forget about miller who has been there since season fucking one but never even became a main character while roan, a white dude, who was only around for a season and a half, became a main character -- and mind you, he was killed only a few episodes after being made a main. jroth had the brilliant idea to make s3 a political commentary on xenophobia and decided “hey!  i think i’m gonna make that black man the fascist! and then i’m gonna make that brown man his supporter! and let’s make those white people in brownface the good people!”

but anyway. back to bellamy. 

i have been watching the 100 since season two first aired. i was in the 100 fandom for maybe one or two years then realized this isn’t really the place for me so i dipped but continued watching this shitshow. i watched the 100 writers, for SEVEN SEASONS, constantly sideline his character development in favor of propping up other character’s (usually clarke, again, a pattern) he was supposed to learn from his mistakes and grow into the leader he had the potential to be. that was the natural progression of how his character was set up from the very beginning, he should’ve grown into leadership. but he never did. every time clarke comes into the picture, his character development is hindered. (one of the biggest reasons as to why i dislike bellarke imo) every time they need someone to bear the brunt of their shitty ass plots, they turn to bellamy. (like s7... when they... made him join a cult lmfaoooo) he should’ve grown into leadership, he shouldn’t have been reduced to a “knight”, he shouldn’t have had to constantly bear the brunt of shitty writing. he should have been his own, well-rounded character. and he was on the way to that in season five, i believe, then they went and ruined that, too. i wanted to watch him grow into a leader who can use his head and his heart, i wanted to get invested in his platonic or romantic relationships with other characters, i wanted them to address the trauma he had endured as a child due to the fact that he had to raise a child when he was A SIX YEAR OLD BOY. i wanted them to address the issues that came with his mother basically throwing octavia at him and telling him she’s his responsibility, i wanted him to emotionally grow up and i wanted him to put himself first. i wanted him to learn to love himself and not base his self worth on other people.  i wanted to see more of him with his family -- with echo, raven, monty, emori and murphy. i didn’t want him to fucking die because of fucking shock value. 

you know what i also didn’t fucking want? i didn’t fucking want to watch the show runner CONTINUOUSLY whitewash him, use a white actor to play him as a kid and then later on call him a white male. i didn’t want some parts of the fandom to pretend he was white because then he’d be another straight white dude and not actually a man of color who is integral representation to so, so, so many people. i watched some of y’all say shit like “well, he’s not CANONICALLY brown <3″ and get away with it. i watched both sides of the fandom treat the character in a really, really racist and shitty manner. with some c/lexa stans thinking it’s okay to call a brown man a fucking monkey. some b/ellarke stans thinking it’s okay to reduce him to clarke’s “knight” not noticing how many racist undertones exist in such a dynamic. at times, it seemed like some of you went out of your way to villanize him. (calling him abusive when you didn’t give clarke OR octavia that treatment, even when octavia fucking beat him to a bloody pulp when he was chained to a rock and when clarke shot AT him then later shot HIM. the excuses were always there for them but not him, huh.) and at times, it seemed like so many of his “fans” only liked him when he was clarke’s inferior. keep in mind that, yes, clarke and lexa were both in brownface at some point in the show. and yes i am brown so please don’t try to tell me it was a tan. as a brown person i know what brownface on white people looks like. (if you’re bipoc and  youdisagree, we can have a civil conversation about it -- but if you’re white please do not pretend to know better than me.) keep in mind, i’m saying SOME. not ALL. don’t take this as an attack against you specifically but at the same time if the shoe fits wear it. bellamy deserved better than to be treated like shit by the creator, the writers and the fandom. bellamy deserved better than to have been played by a biphobic abuser. he deserved so much fucking better and i did not know upset or hurt i was by this until i started writing this.

but anyway. he’s dead now. so pce out. 

[jaskicr]

if only some people used their influence and large followings to bring attention to, say, the racism and misygyny embedded so deep in the fandom that most people don’t notice and it’s just become something unconscious, rather than throwing a fit over issues that are far less consequential

[robin-nightwing-agent37]

Once you see how race plays a part in shipping wars and etc you can’t unsee it. I’ve noticed this for years and I’ve considered really studying it and writing about it. You have to talk about race when it comes to Dick and shipping. A trend I noticed too is that predominantly a majority of DickBabs fans are white so when the questions of race or how other Dick ships are treated in comparison you start seeing how certain fans talk. But the thing that really captures my interest is that the defense that comes to defend Barbara is very loud, but when other characters like Koriand’r or Helena or Shawn or Bea etc need defending suddenly those Barbara defenders are very quiet and those who do defend said characters are seen as silly or are “mean” about it when the majority of those fans are poc. And this might piss off some people but the way Catalina Flores was created by a white woman and portrayed her the way she was WAS offensive because white DC writers have repeatedly made woc r*pists while also making the hero’s love interest at the time a white woman.

Oh yeah! I see it too! Ive complained about it multiple times. Both Dick and Babs have had POC love interests and have been very happy with them. Babs herself has been with Luke Fox TWICE and even married a Black Man in Batman Beyond. But the Batgirl fans are sooo silent about it. They hardly even acknowledge it. The writers even go out of their way to embarrass these relationships like having Babs OOC break up with Luke or forcing Dick Babs moments in the Batman Beyond comics. And the same with Dick. Having the villain tell Helena that Babs wa prettier than her. Even comparing Helena and Babs during the rebirth era was racist AF in BOP. They practically turned Bea into stepping stone for Dick Babs having her tell Dick to return to the Batfam. And I notice a lot of Kory fans have been acting strange since they hired a black woman to play Kory. DC has a habit of doing the worst shit possible to their WOC characters. When they race bent Catwoman in the comics, she became a stripper/prostitute. And you know what makes it WORSE with Barbara Gordon? IS that she literally WAS created as a way for the white male protagonist Batman TO NOT date the new black female Catwoman in the 66' yup? Babs was created soley because of racism and the network at the time being anti-interracial relationships. Needless to say, DC has a habit of using Babs to make sure thier stoic white men never fall in love with WOC. Tim Drake dated two black girls. Both are hardly remembered by Tim Drake fans and when they do bring it up, they are extremely negative about it. Batman himself has dated two black women, i mean he fell in love with them. But the writers LITERALLY, had her committed to a mental institution for the rest of her life because she used so much of her power to save Bruce, that it mentally caused her to be a like a 3 years old forever. And then Jezebel Jet literally betrayed him and then had her head torn off by freaking Talia al Ghul. So unnecessary. Talia Al Ghul was turned into a rapist that nobody liked. It's just tired at this point. And don't even get me started on how Young Justice creators made a point to say that Dick Babs or Dick Zatanna happened on and off screen, but Dick Rocket was only mentioned in passing, if at all, after that on screen. They never had Dick Rocket interacting like Dick Babs or Dick Zatanna, despite the fact he dated her for a while too. And then they thought I wouldn't notice that 90% of the villains in season 4 weren't black lmao you thought Young Justice. Despicable.

I even low key believe that the depiction of Amanda Waller is racist as well.

I really want Dick's end game to be with a black woman or black, biracial woman just to see the fandom fucking seethe.