#but that's just my opinion ??? go on and ship what you love

[stacygetsit]

What about the ring? It was on full display in her recent video about the SAG awards. I feel like if they really want to squelch the shipping then Nic would remove the ring? That’s what’s keeping me on the ship among other things. She moved it from “in a relationship” on her right hand to “engaged or married” on her left hand in October. If the ring does not signify a relationship with Luke then it is either just a nice piece of jewelry she likes to wear or there is someone else? Which makes no sense to me. They give us crumbs/clues then do things to make us question everything. It’s a bit annoying. Lots of games.

hey Anon,

I wanna teach you something that I do a lot when I'm confused or I'm upset with someone I have this really good habit of putting myself into their shoes. So let's put ourselves into Luke or Nic shoes. You just landed this huge role after struggling for years. Your season comes up. You know that it's your time to shine. You know that this is a make it or break it moment in your career. So you put everything you have into these scenes. You give your best performance you've ever given in your life and you're doing it with one of your closest people that you cherish. Then you go on the world tour and you are touring with your best friend somebody that you love with all your heart. But that's another six months of your life that you've given to this role. You don't see your family you don't see your friends. You don't take a vacation. You have lived for your job but you do it because it's something that you love. Now you start feeling things for your costar. And you're getting all of this new attention from all these fans and you're very unsure on how to handle it. What do I do? Do I give in and tell them everything do I pull back and not tell them a thing? What's the correct amount of information that I should give? So as you're trying to figure out this newfound attention from thousands of fans you're also trying to understand what's going on in your personal life. You have to remember you you put on hold all these other relationships in your life relationship you put in your life. You haven't seen your family. You haven't seen your friends. And these were the people that were there for you when you had nothing. But remember you fell in love. You feel things for this for your costar that you've never felt before and you don't understand what those feelings are you're being told by professionals that It might be your characters feelings. And that you should take time apart, so you attempt to do that you bring one of your friends with you to the premiere. And then you get blasted by by everyone and they were ruthless. So you pull back you don't go online as much, you don't post as much. But you're still in love. You're still trying to understand your feelings. You take some vacations. You put some distance between you like the professionals have said. But you realize that you're in love and you're happy. Now your instant reaction as you wanna tell the world. You wanna scream from the mountain tops how much they mean to you. But then you have fans showing up at your hotel rooms. Peeking in your home windows, tearing apart every single little thing that you do. Then you realize as much as you love your fans you just want the privacy to figure out what you're feeling. You want to take a little bit of your life back because you realize that the more you give the more people want. So you got this new relationship and you wanna protect it. You have already experienced people tearing you apart and you don't want people to tear your person that you're in love with apart. But your still have those same feelings of wanting to shout it to the world. And then you realize that the more you talk, the more things slip your love for this other person is so big that it just comes out without you even realizing it. This is where they're at in my opinion. They have this newfound fame. They're in love and they don't know how to deal with it. This world, even though they were both known this world is very much new to them the amount of fame Nicola has is new. People followed her to the grocery store guys. She went to her local pub and got pap. Luke can't even go into a hotel without being pap. They have to be in disguise or stay home. So in my opinion I don't think they're playing games and the ring does matter. I think they're trying to figure it out and I feel as a fan we should give them a little grace. They're trying to decide how much to give us, and if the cost they have to pay is worth it.

note: we also have to keep in mind that they have a team of people that are telling them what to do. They're getting opinions from their friends. They're getting opinions from their family. They're getting opinions from their teams and then there's what they actually wanna do. It's hard to navigate all of that.

[writingdevil]

hiiiiii! Thank you for the Tongues and teeth and for every additional ask you wrote after that. Soooo interesting! I would love to see your take on skeptic / opportunist if you don't mind. It might not be romantical, anything you're comfortable with really. Have a good day!

(Thank you! I really like Skeptunist and I was debating for awhile on whether to write something for them, but they also felt like a ship that would be tricky to write for, but I'll try my best for you! Enjoy!)

Skeptic was never one to back down from a mystery, or the challenge of figuring out a complicated question. The journey from the beginning to the conclusion, watching as logic took control and let all the pieces fall into place, was an experience that Skeptic loved every single time.

This extended to his flock as well. There was just something about watching the way his flockmates lived, now that they had their own freedom and forms, that intrigued Skeptic. Why did Cheated get so angry at every little thing he deemed an injustice? Why did Contrarian spend his whole day goofing off and cracking jokes at anyone who would listen?

His fellow birds were an enigma that he wanted to solve as well, as a way of understanding them, and his latest subject was Opportunist.

If Skeptic took a step back to observe all the others with their odd behaviours at once, Oppy was the one that stood out to him.

He was never outwardly malicious or cruel, but everyone at this point knew that he was merely pretending so that he could get the upper hand. But why? They weren't trapped in a cycle of death anymore, so what reason would Oppy have for keeping up appearances? He looked like someone doing a one man play, but there was no audience to watch him.

Except Skeptic. He wanted to understand why Oppy behaved the way he did, because for as tricky and annoying as he was, he was genuinely an intriguing person, in Skeptic's opinion.

Oppy had a habit of just appearing in front of people and talking their ears off, and while most others would bat him away, Skeptic had started hearing him out, and even going so far as to seek him out to spend time together.

Once Skeptic started listening and taking notes on Oppy, he realised that, on the surface, Oppy would go through a cycle of talking about himself and then commenting and complimenting Skeptic on his intelligence.

At first, it sounded like a whole lot of nothing. It just looked like Oppy was still attempting to cosy up to people for his own benefit, and Skeptic was about to write him off as a self serving fool, but then he stopped himself.

Why?

Why did Oppy insist on acting like this, when it's been proven that there's no danger, therefore no need to grab control over others?

Skeptic had a few theories, ones that ranged from a secret intense insecurity, to an obsession with staying ahead of everyone else. Either way, Skeptic was determined to peer behind his mask, to see what it truly hid.

So he started engaging with Oppy more, actually listening and offering his own perspective to topics. It was actually-fun, to talk to someone who thought in a similar way to him, who used logic in different ways.

Skeptic used logic to understand the world around him and all his questions. Oppy used logic to understand the people around them and what their goals were. It was just different enough that it had Skeptic yearning to understand Oppy's mind even more, to the point where Skeptic was actually starting to look forward to spending time with Oppy.

He liked being around Oppy. He liked being around a sharp mind who appreciated the way his brain worked, and who actively enjoyed listening to Skeptic ramble about his many theories-to the point where it made his heart start to beat faster.

The realisation didn't dawn on him until he found him replaying Oppy's words in his head-'I never would've thought of that,Skeptic. You have such a brilliant mind, Skeptic. You're truly as smart as you look, Skeptic.' Just Skeptic, Skeptic, Skeptic.

Oppy kept saying his name in that sugary sweet tone, and Skeptic started to crave the taste of it, and he wouldn't even care if it was poisonous. He liked the way Oppy thought, the way he crafted his words perfectly to the person, the way he was perfectly in control of his image, whereas Skeptic always felt like he was a frenzied mess everyday.

So-he had fallen for the backstabber, and he had somehow come no closer to seeing his true self in all that time. What was meant to be a calm and controlled observation and investigation, had diverted into a mess of feelings that Skeptic hadn't a hope of deciphering, so he went to the only person who could possibly understand-his brother, Smitten.

But what his brother told him in response to his woes was advice, and suffice to say, Smitten's suggestion was worth testing out.

So, one day, he decided to.

"I've got the cards, Skeptic!" Oppy announced, already sitting at the kitchen table and waving a deck of cards in his hand. Skeptic had asked to play a few rounds with Oppy, one of many activities that they found themselves doing together. But as Skeptic walked into the kitchen, he abruptly halted, pretending to look confused, patting down his feathery body, until eventually Oppy asked, "What's wrong?"

Skeptic sighed in frustration, impressed by how well he was doing. He glared at the ground in annoyance and said, "Nothing. I just forgot my notebook, is all." Skeptic always carried a notebook with him in case he suddenly had an epiphany about anything.

He had barely finished speaking before Oppy was up and out of his seat, handing the deck to him as he said, "Let me get it for you, friend. You sit and deal the cards." Skeptic smiled in success as Oppy quickly walked away before he could protest, his need to feel useful to others coming in handy right now.

A few minutes later, Oppy returned, sitting down and sliding the book over to him while also managing to pick up his whole deck in one hand. Oppy's eyes scanned his cards, and Skeptic saw a flash of excitement that he rarely witnessed in Oppy.

Oppy genuinely liked playing these games with people, no matter how much it involved his skills of lying and bluffing.

Skeptic's eyes lingered on Oppy's face, before he shook himself out of it, placing one hand firmly on his notebook. "Thank you, Oppy," he quietly said, Oppy looked over his cards to give him a big smile, and Skeptic found that he liked it, no matter if that was the whole purpose of the mask.

"Don't even worry about it. If I was thinking as deeply as you do on a daily basis, I feel like I'd be allowed to let some little things slip." Although Skeptic wasn't actually one to forget things, the words still reassured him over something he wasn't even aware he worried about.

Oppy placed the first card down, and Skeptic couldn't wait any longer, and made his move.

His hand shot out, not to put a card down, but to place it over Oppy's hand, gripping it gently as he firmly said, "Really, Oppy-you're very kind."

He could feel the way Oppy tensed up underneath him, and when Skeptic looked up at him, he found his smile frozen inbetween confidence and shock, making him just look nervous and terrified now. He could practically see the way his eyes clouded over, his mind probably searching for the correct act to sell him to allow him to stay on top of this.

But Skeptic wanted to push this further, so he gave Oppy's hand a little squeeze, and that was when he saw Oppy let a small gasp out, his face falling into such a soft expression that Skeptic wondered if Oppy had even realised he had let the mask fall.

But it only lasted a few seconds, as Oppy blinked, and a cold calm washed over him. He smiled bitterly, shaking his head as he went, "No,"and tried to pull his hand back, but Skeptic just tightened his hold on him.

Oppy finally looked up at him, but it was with such a wide and intense look that it made Skeptic's feathers bristle. Oppy chuckled emptily, and now Skeptic was just wishing for Oppy to be dramatic or performative, because that would be so much better than the defeated expression he wore.

"No," Oppy repeated, "we're not doing this."

"Doing what?"

"Don't do that!" Oppy snapped, his smile trembling in rage and his voice bordering on a yell. "Did Smitten put you up to this?"

"He didn't exactly put me up to-"

Oppy rolled his eyes with a harsh sigh. "I'm not stupid, Skeptic. I know what you're doing." Oppy's smile turned cruel and sharp as he nodded towards his notebook. "I know you've been studying me and my habits. Read it on the way here," he admitted, but it was as if he was happy to reveal that to Skeptic, to admit to the invasion of privacy.

But Skeptic knew that Oppy would look through his notebook. He hadn't cared, because he had nothing to really hide.

Skeptic kept his voice calm and level, giving Oppy's hand a reassuring squeeze, to which Oppy tried and failed to hide his reaction to, but Skeptic heard the quiet yet sharp intake of breath.

"Oppy, it's true that I was-observing you, but that was because I was trying to figure you out."

Oppy hummed. "I know," he replied bluntly, "although, I'll have to mark one of your theories as incorrect. I am in no way touch-starved-"

"Smitten begs to differ." Oppy tensed up at the mention of the passionate bird, and Skeptic warily watched as Oppy balled his free hand into a fist on the table. The silence was beginning to suffocate Skeptic, so he explained,"Smitten just told me that it seemed as if you really enjoyed touch and being praised-"

"No!" Oppy snapped, shaking his head with a disbelieving and nervous chuckle. Skeptic wasn't sure if Oppy realised he was accidentally squeezing his hand for comfort, but he wasn't about to say anything. "No," he repeated, panic now evident in his eyes, his mask cracking more and more, "no, that would be ridiculous. Me? Be desperate to have someone treat me like a pet? You scheming brothers must have me confused with Broken, because I would never let myself be so weak and pathetic-"

"It's not a bad thing," Skeptic softly insisted, stunning Oppy into silence. Skeptic refused to break eye contact with him as he lifted up their joint hands, showing how tightly Oppy was clutching his hand. Oppy stared as if he couldn't believe what was happening. "It's okay to want people to appreciate you and to make you feel loved. You're not weak for wanting that."

Oppy shook his head, but Skeptic leaned closer and said, "I'm sorry if I made you feel like I wasn't treating you with respect. I genuinely just wanted to figure out how you worked, because then I could learn how to be a better friend to you-I'm not very good with assuming what the right thing to do is."

With every word he spoke, he saw Oppy's anger and mortification slowly dissipate, until he just looked tired, his feathers still puffed up in caution.

"I don't think-" Oppy quietly said, so quiet it could be considered a whisper, "-I don't think I'm very good at-accepting stuff like that. I'm not used to it, and that scares me."

Skeptic chuckled softly. "It scares me too, if I'm honest." Oppy looked up at him in surprise, and Skeptic found that he couldn't look away as he continued, "But I'd be happy to practice it with you."

Skeptic was waiting for the moment that Oppy dismissed him, that he regarded him and Smitten as a threat to his safety now, and distanced himself from them. Skeptic didn't want that, but the longer the silence went on, the more he was sure that was going to be the case.

He was busy trying to ignore his heart crying out in protest, when he felt it- a single squeeze back.

His head shot up to look at Oppy, who's face was flushing deeply as he refused to look anywhere near Skeptic. "I'm willing to test it with you," he mumbled, but it was more than loud enough for Skeptic.

Mask or no mask, Skeptic just wanted Oppy, and he would be sure to give him all the love he deserved.

[demadogs]

Why byler? Is my question what is it about them that’s so popular

ooo this is a fun one. im assuming you may be one of my newer followers who didnt follow me when i was in the byler trenches. welcome. let me explain.

i think probably the biggest reason people gravitate towards byler is that its extremely fun for people who love film analysis because most of us genuinely believe it will happen in s5. for me specifically, this is the entire reason im here. i first started liking byler when s2 came out but it was casual. i just thought they'd be cute together. once s3 came out and i saw someone point out that mike was framed perfectly in a closet, that was my turning point. thats when i got insane about them because i actually believed its where they were headed.

its always fun to ship your favorite characters and engage in fanfics and fanart, but when theres a genuine belief that this is the direction the story is actually going in, its just a completely different experience. its a whole other world. its no longer about the characters themselves anymore. its about the cinematography, the props, the color palettes, the music choices, the blocking, the lighting. all of these things and more have provided evidence for why we believe byler will be endgame. its the perfect ship for people who are really passionate about filmmaking as a whole. 

many of us, including myself, got our degrees in film or have a background in filmmaking. ive made my own films and i plan to make more. one of them was screened at a festival. ive written academic papers on shows and movies. i've taken college film classes where my professors talked about stranger things. im a professional photographer which coincides a lot with film. i have this blog to talk about my favorite fictional media online. every time i watch something new i read long analyses on the media. if they dont exist, i write them myself and post them here. i love talking about and learning about and watching cinema on a much deeper level than someone who just throws on a show when theyre bored. so watching two complex characters not only have romantic tension in their actions and dialogue alone, but also have enough depth to analyze the practical filmmaking choices that prove they are going to end up together…. well its like fucking cocaine to me.

another reason is that mike wheeler, in my opinion, has the potential to have some of the most well written internalized homophobia ever. and i think he differs greatly from a lot of other characters with internalized homophobia because the writers have had the patience to not fully confirm his sexuality until the final season. many other queer characters who struggle with their sexuality come to terms with it over the course of one season or less. or they write it with dramatic irony so the audience is always well aware they are queer from the getgo, even if the character doesnt know yet. while theres nothing inherently wrong with any of these choices, i think having a more outside perspective on internalized homophobia and having that perspective be told slowly will make for a much more authentic and powerful queer coming of age story. i think all of mikes flaws and animosity towards both will and el will pay off so much once we know what hes been going through. i believe this character actually has the potential to reach people who arent accepting of the queer community right now.

byler also just resonates with the queer community so much. a lot of queer ships, especially mlm ships, are dominated by straight women, sometimes to the point where the ship doesn't even feel like its a part of queer culture anymore. its just nice to have a gay ship that feels like its for gay people. and as much as i love a really well written tragedy, its also nice that we can see a happy ending so clearly.

in short, its just fun. the whole "will they/wont they" element is fun as hell. ive never had that with a ship before. i tend to lean towards slow burns that i know will be canon (snowbaz <3) or tragedies that are so gut wrenching i dont even WISH they got together (jackieshauna <333) byler however just speaks to my film loving soul on such a deep level. its perfect for me. its so fun to analyze and read other people's analyses. i cant wait to see how it unfolds in s5.

[irlnorthshaw]

Here's a question:

What are your Supa Strikas ships that you thought of and like, and think people wouldn't get?? (I'm curious lol-)

MIMPI... mimpi... be careful for what you're asking because you know how i am with shipping. guys i ship for life. like i dont give a damn if the ship's interaction is worth one cent... i make do with what i can and have!!! and after rewatching the show a couple billion times... i have gathered some INTERESTING ones.

liquido and riano

as you may know, i have watched "your latest trick" A LOT. yes they did interact in this one scene and never again but hear me out– they give me: liquido can't get over himself and thinks he can bag one of the finest man in the super league. but we all know riano, riano isn't having any of that. their convo would go something like this:

"hey, riano~" "goodbye, liquido."

el matador and blok

YES. yall heard me. this is also me showing some love to blok because some people seem to forget about him!!! what can i say, i love the idea of this dynamic. the thing is, sometimes i ship things in a way i wanna see more of them interacting and not necessarily picture them BEING together. if that makes sense.

these two are exactly that. i wanna see more of them interact bc lowkey i thought it was so wholesome when blok wanted to collaborate and promote fzzzl bmmm w the release of el matador's action figure.

DOOMATIC!!!!! OH YEAH BABY

if only automatic had more moments EUGH... this would've been so good. i personally pat myself on the back when i thought of this one bc i cooked HARD!!! they definitely cannot stand each other and to me, that's the best part of it all.

enemies to lovers who? more like enemies and i cannot believe we're also lovers.

skarra and north

the best way i can describe this one is. i am simply projecting myself on north and i love skarra. so... yeah #SHAMELESS

inyo and miss altivo

AKA PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE YURI!!! this one you guys HAVE to love. PLEASE!!! the potential is so insane here... inyo's big brains and chameleon-like tactics? combined with altivo's unwavering power over these dumb men for clicks and views??? COUNT ME TF IN!!!

we need more yuri in this fandom and THIS is where we should start.

brenda and lena

SPEAKING OF YURI... here's another one. except this time i am so surprised nobody has jumped on this yet??? futbol 360 yuri, i NEEEED IT!!! i need it now. they'd honestly be so cute and wholesome, moreover they definitely trade information abt the players for work

coach and the sheikh

now this one is a tad bit controversial BUT who am i without some controversial opinions!!! this is another case of i cannot see them BEING together, but i would kill to see them interact more. they are wayyy more entertaining than coach and vince. (THAT MIGHT ALSO BE CONTROVERSIAL) ohh... the way sheikh is so sassy w coach. maybe i just want more of the sultans... yeah thats it.

"losing your cool, coach? or just losing?" AND THEN PROCEED TO WALK AWAY LIKE THE BADDIE HE IS??? crazy stuff. i want more. NOW!!

belmont and von pushup

OKAY SO... storytime is i had an edit of these two a long time ago but i cant find it???? so consider it xander lost media at the moment. you guys need to hear me out on this because they would be SOOO PEAK!!! jock and goth but to another level i fear. as big and tough the iron tank guys are, i doubt they can stand grimm fc's haunted gimmicks.

plus von pushup works together w belmont to scare his own team bc he thinks its hilarious and perfect psychological training for them

AAAAAND THAT'S ALL... for now hehehe

sorry for the really long response but I HAD TO GET IT OUT OF MY SYSTEM!!!! i love crackships so much and especially in supa strikas bc we get a whole lot of freedom as a smaller fandom to do whatever. this was a very fun post to make, thank you so much mimpi for that lovely question!!! i always look forward to your input

[111daebud]

It’s kinda late and I’m ranting abt Fnaf okay (not the cannon stuff,, the mostly fanmade characters hrhjfjg)

Guys I love how diverse Fnaf fanart is but I fucking hate those ppl who are so damn stuck to Rebornica’s au that they start harassing ppl. Why do you even support Rebornica still in the first place? I get separating art from artist, I totally get that, but some of it (the art and opinions) is just wrong.

Like specifically abt Jeremike,,, Like bbg if I see one more person go ‘Omg what where’s Mike’s gf he’s not gay ew’ or like ‘he sees Jeremy as his son thingy bc he just wants to protect him’ or some shit I’m gonna eat someone’s arse and lick both of their eyeballs bc omg let ppl have their own opinions or head cannons or aus or whatever it’s ridiculous tbh. That is your opinion, not fucking mine. I ship Mike and Jeremy guys,, it doesn’t gotta be that deep to anyone fr. They are not related, they are of similar age, and it is my own decision who I ship and you can’t change my mind abt that one specific thing.

Ik taken completely out of context this is very confusing but I’m just going on idrc lolz

Like this isn’t necessarily directed or anything, and not everyone is like this, I know, but I’m just putting it out there bc it’s my blog and fight me and I love Jeremike with my everything even if some people think its a dead ship or hate it or blahblahblah idc at all bc yayayayay jeremike yippee yippee i love themm

[manwiththemagic]

Went off of Tumblr for like 2 weeks, happiest weeks of my life. I regret the supernatural fandom SO HARD.

cause on one hand, I love the artwork, and head cannons. And there are many fun and awesome people!!

On the other hand, shipping culture is awful?? Awful on tumblr. I've been harassed over ships, or gotten hateful comments over posts??

I'm still newish to this platform and I just liked having a place to state my opinions on random niche things just for people to go "erm IDC you hateful person!!" :(

Or I'll make a joke (not even hateful) about shipping culture as a multishipper, and someone butt in rudely about how I'm judging people who don't multiship?? Swear it's just so toxic sometimes my God.

Im so tired of arguing w/ rando's on the Internet. Don't like a post?? SCROLL. it's not like I'm doing anything illegal omfg.

So what i don't like mark of cain dean? I can put it under that tag because it's ABOUT him?

I don't go to random people's profiles/posts and fight about it. You can state if you have a different opinion, just don't be a dick about it??

Anyways... love everything else!! Fandom culture is really two sided bc yes!! Share that art!! No!! Don't send people death threats over a thing in a 20 year old show!!

not tagging because I don't want anyone outside my profile to see this. Heaven knows what THOSE fans would say about it. Oml.

[fajrbirdsongs]

if this wasn’t a serious question, sorry! ignore me! things like that fly over my head, if it is; reasons i (or anyone might) ship regulores are:

dynamic -

could be summed up as:

”bury a body with me”

”i thought you’d never ask”

”wasn’t asking, was telling”

”semantics”

”…you’re not appalled?”

“it’ll take a lot more than some tuesday to scare me”

i like to think of them as fluffy childhood friends to strangers who appear to be entirely different people at hogwarts to enemies who realise that actually, they’re still the same kids, still know each other proper deep, to lovers who go screw the world, with a side of forbidden romance

i’ve seen the idea of them just utterly shamelessly using each other but it devolving into “oh, oh, no, feelings-“ which is just as cool imo

shared weakness -

they’re surprisingly emotional for callus people in cannon, others would likely discourage them from it - it’s just not clever if you wanna be manipulative/cunning, but together they could bring it out in each other and be as emotionally vulnerable as they pleased

shared ambition -

they both are crazy set on what they want, eg reg being a fanatic with voldemort newspaper clippings on his bedroom walls, dolores bribing and being implied to kill people to erase evidence of her blood status + everything she did to climb the ladder as a half blood in slytherin, they could be obsessed little freaks no one else gets together

aesthetic -

black and pink, the bows and the sparkles and the fashion and the cats and the murdering, need i say more?

nuance -

‘we’ don’t hate dolores, different opinions exist - i like her backstory and how it shaped her: her abusive father, growing up poor, the way her muggle mother and squib brother left her behind when they escaped - not justifications, just reasonings

cannon includes -

the latest possible birth date for dolores is the same year reg was born so they could’ve went to hogwarts together, reg’s locket ended up in her possession, regulus is the brightest star in constellation leo aka big cat and we know she loves cats (also fits well with pop hc of him being a cat animagus)

most importantly -

for the laugh

Guys, I just discovered that people ship Regulus with umbridge. I only have one question, WHY?? No offense, but what is the appeal of such a ship.

We clearly hate umbridge, then why ship her??

Can someone explain the dynamic about that ship to me, please?

[mamawasatesttube]

kon sweetie im so fucking sorry that someone would even say something stupid like that oh my god.

[were-wolverine]

listen. usually i’m all about saying ‘fuck canon’ and doing whatever i want, yk?

but like. kataang is just SO GOOD !! THEYRE SO CUTE AND THEY BUILD UP THE RELATIONSHIP THROUGHOUT THE SEASONS AND THEYRE JUST PERFECT FOR EACH OTHER!!!

they are like percabeth-level soulmates. my favs fr

[stranger-feathers]

The whole "what if Will was a girl" is a good way to reduce bias in the audience. But you're definitely right that it really doesn't make sense in narrative analysis because their arc in S3 and S4 is deeply tied to the fact that Will is a boy, most notably with the rain fight. A straight version of the rain fight (it's not my fault you don't have a boyfriend/you're jealous of El) would not have led to the nuclear reaction Will has in canon, and probably wouldn't have even happened since it's prompted by Mike feeling uncomfortable with queerness in canon. It can't be fully dissociated from the fact that those are two boys, just like Mileven can't be dissociated from the fact that it is a straight couple (by virtue of the social pressure and acceptance involved in how other characters view it).

Will's arc is deeply tied to being queer : if you get rid of that fact, you get rid of most of the arc. Will is pulling away from Mike, being self conscious and second guessing everything, pre-emptively sacrificing his feelings etc. because he's queer, and doesn't believe there's a happy ending for someone like him. He would not be going this far if it was simply about loving his best friend who already has a girlfriend: the stakes of Byler would be much, much lower for a girl Will, and his actions would change accordingly.

Will in canon isn't only scared of Mike being uncomfortable with Will loving him specifically the way a straight girl might. He's scared of Mike rejecting him entirely, even as a friend, simply for being gay.

Mike would also change a lot in how he acts. He wouldn't feel the need to hide his affection, and would be much more open in public if Will was a girl : no more closing doors before you talk or jumping when they get interrupted because there would be no reason for him to be scared of being found out. Mike acting visibly different and softer when they're alone is due to their queerness and the social climate around it: it would not happen if Will was a girl.

And those are just a few examples of what would have to change in a straight version of Byler ! The truth is that the whole "what if Will was a girl ?/what if Mileven was gay ?" would change just about everything in both relationships. It has some value in adressing biases : more people would see Byler coming if it was straight (heteronormativity), and some would like Mileven more (those who dislike straight ship on principle or ship just about anything if it's gay - they do exist, especially on tumblr) or less (homophobes) if it wasn't. But the characters' stories would also change so drastically that you end up in complete speculation as to what that version of the show would even look like, so does it really matter at this point ?

I personally have similar thoughts about Lesbyler as a concept because Will's backstory would change a lot in a version where he wasn't immediately clocked as a gay boy by the town (and his dad most notably). Even if you assume that people would think that girl Will was a lesbian instead (I'm not even sure it would be the case since that version of Will would be much closer to the gender norm), lesbian and gay kids have different experiences and expectations pushed on them, which would lead to different attitudes in my opinion. I would argue that their respective familial situations could also have evolved and influenced them very differently (most notably in Lonnie and Will's relationship, but there is also something to be said about the difference in treatment between Mike and Nancy by their parents), but I'm gonna stop my tangent here because this was not the main topic at all. Lesbyler can be fun but it would probably be very different from canon Byler if we're being honest (just like most genderbend/sexbend stories to be honest : changing assigned gender at birth will lead to wildly different socialisation, and wildly different characters in most cases, just like making a ship queer or straight would).

If Will were a girl, how do you think the average audience would react? Would they say she's also a homewrecker or a slut? Or that her and Mike make much more sense and chemistry?

I think there would still be a shipping war, like there is with Jancy and Stancy. Therefore, toxic people on the Mileven side of things would likely call her that yes -- but I think that's not the issue brought up by people who are asking the question of : What if Will were a girl?

If Will was a girl, people probably would see Byler as having more of a chance, people would be more receptive of the idea of it happening because it's straight. People would be much much more likely to see their romantic scenes as romantic and the showrunners and interviewers would definitely be asking the actors more about this love triangle.

But a lot of the reason why so many people , including queer people, think that Byler won't happen is because it's a queer ship. These are the common doubts:

Will's unrequited love is realistic. Many gay boys have crushes on their straight best friend.

Will's sadness is realistic because he is a gay person in the 80s.

Mike loves El meaning he is straight and can't love Will who is a guy.

The showrunners can't make a gay love story the main focus of a huge show like Stranger Things.

The showrunners might be queerbaiting like a lot of other shows.

Doubt number 1 is eliminated if Will was a girl because straight unrequited love is not seen as realistic.

Doubt number 2 is eliminated if Will was a girl because she would be straight and not discriminated against for being gay in the 80s.

Doubt number 3 is eliminated because both El and Will would be girls, meaning Mike can equally have a chance of being with either of them.

Doubt number 4 is eliminated if Will was a girl because the writers would not need to make as big of a social leap to make Mike and Will in love.

Doubt number 5 is eliminated if Will was a girl because.... well it's obvious.

I kind of don't like this argument. Yes, if Will was a girl, people would probably be more receptive to the idea of Byler happening. A lot of the reason people don't see it is because of heteronormativity. BUT a lot of the reason why I think Byler is happening is because MIKE IS QUEERCODED not just because Byler have romantic chemistry. Part of Mike's arc isn't just realising that he's in love with Will, it's realising that he's queer.

This is a gay love story, don't try to water it down by simply asking questions like:

"What if Will was a girl?"

"If Mileven were gay would you like them?"

Ignores the queer building blocks of the story. Byler is the dynamic that it is because they are queer in the 80s. Mileven is the way it is because they are a straight couple pushed together by trauma and guilt.

[panharmonium]

Hi! I love your Naruto thoughts and meta posts with all my heart and I want to ask your thoughts on something that has been on my mind literally since I was 13: what do you think about the relationship between Sasuke and Sakura? I went from being a hardcore shipper when I was a teenager, to being against any romantic relationship in Naruto after finishing the anime when I was in my early twenties. Nowadays I'm very into platonic love and depictions of friendship and I think the anime's obsession with forcing the "romantic interest" curse upon the main female character robbed us of... so much. There are a few wonderful moments in the anime where Sasuke and Sakura acknowledge each other, but because she's always "the girl with the crush", her actions are so often interpret as irrational or selfish by the fandom.

Hi @riemmetric!  It's great to talk to you again! Sorry it's taken me so long to answer this; RL has been making demands of me lately and it took me way longer to finish writing this up than I wanted it to (then again, I knew from the minute I read your original ask that my reply was going to get long, so I suppose I should have predicted a delay XD)

It's funny, my sister once asked me to choose between Sasuke or Sakura for an “unpopular opinion” meme, and I ended up doing Sasuke solely because I think the negative fandom opinions about Sakura are so unhinged and divorced from the actual text that I wouldn’t even know where to start.  People are entitled to dislike whatever characters they want, obviously, but there are some fandom takes that are, for me, so obviously rooted in bad faith viewings/readings that there’s no urge in me to discuss them.  That said, since you asked, I’m happy to go into my own thoughts on this a bit, with the disclaimer for other potential readers that I only write about fandom things for my own personal enjoyment, not as a contribution to The Discourse. If you don’t like Sakura, great!  I have no interest in changing your mind. Please consider this a sincere invitation to scroll on by and go enjoy whatever parts of the fandom appeal to you.

In general terms: I love Sasuke and Sakura’s relationship as much as I love all of the relationships in Team 7.  If we’re talking about them specifically as a romantic couple, then I probably fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, because I do like them together in a post-canon (to be clear: non-Boruto) setting, after time has passed and they’ve continued to develop individually and reconnect with each other, but I also wouldn’t exactly call myself an intense “shipper,” in the sense that I have no interest in pulling things out from the text and incorrectly citing them as evidence that Sasuke has hidden romantic feelings for her during the canon period. He cares about her in the canon period, just like he cares about Naruto and Kakashi.  That’s not up for interpretation; it’s the text.  But Sasuke during the canon time period does not demonstrate specifically romantic interest in anyone.  

[A note before people who might ship Sasuke with Someone Else emerge to rail against this statement - please just scroll past and continue enjoying fandom in whatever way is most fun for you. It is cool to ship whatever fanon thing you want; I think that’s great!  But earnestly citing any loving or emotional thing Sasuke does re: various characters in this story (yes, Sakura included) as indicative of specifically romantic love isn’t supported by the text. I know there are always going to be enormous subsets of any fandom who insist that it is, and I'm certainly not going to barge into anyone else's space to complain about that (because other people having fun together is harmless and none of my business), but I'm not obligated to indulge it on my own blog, either.]

Anyway, that said - the reason why I love Sakura and Sasuke’s relationship (from here on out I’ll use “relationship” in a general, non-romantic sense) is precisely because Sakura isn’t just “the girl with the crush.” Sakura has an arc when it comes to Sasuke, and its trajectory moves in the exact opposite direction of “irrational” or “selfish.”  She specifically goes from “the girl with the crush” to “the girl who steels herself and tries to put her personal feelings for Sasuke aside for the greater good” to “the girl who knows she can’t put her feelings aside, but who also knows full well that Sasuke doesn’t reciprocate them, and who still wants to save him regardless, because he matters to her as a person and a friend.”

[I'm putting the rest of this under a cut to save everyone's dash, and also to emphasize once again that this is a personal post on my personal blog which I wrote in response to a question from a personal acquaintance, the full content of which no one is obligated to read. I am not sending this post to random strangers and forcing them to look at it. I'm not even putting it in the character tags. I'm typing it up on my own blog and putting it under a cut. If you already know that you don't like Sakura, but you still click the link/read the post and then feel an urge to comment and complain, I am going to copy-paste this disclaimer and remind you that I specifically recommended that you scroll past and go have fun with fandom in your own way. Thanks in advance for responsibly curating your own fandom experience!]

So, from the top:

1. the girl with the crush

Sakura is, obviously, completely obsessed with Sasuke at the beginning of Part 1.  She’s also deeply clueless about him and his history (bizarre though it is, the story seems to indicate that she initially doesn’t know what happened with his family, the same way young!Obito is initially clueless about Kakashi’s father).  But what I like about Sakura and Sasuke’s Part 1 relationship is how this changes over time.

The critical scene that kicks this off happens right at the beginning of the manga, when she and Sasuke are talking by that bench - she complains about Naruto and blames his behavior on him being all alone/having no family to scold him; and even says she’s jealous that he doesn’t have parents to nag him all the time.  This obviously triggers an outburst from Sasuke, who tells her she has no idea what loneliness means and that she “makes him sick”/she’s “annoying” (importantly, the exact same thing Sakura said to Naruto in anger earlier that day), which in turn prompts Sakura to reassess herself and wonder whether she’s been making Naruto feel this terrible all the time, too:

From that point on, it’s a process of her putting little pieces together.  She still has a MAJOR crush, and she still acts like a twelve year-old, but as we approach the end of Part I, Sakura actually has a more accurate grasp on Sasuke’s current state of mind than Naruto does.  Naruto is initially excited to fight Sasuke on top of the hospital, because he feels like Sasuke’s finally acknowledging him, whereas Sakura is the one who immediately recognizes that something is wrong about this situation.  She is also the one who, after this fight, is concerned that Sasuke is really unwell and might do something drastic like run off in pursuit of the power Orochimaru promised him, but when she communicates this to Naruto, he assures her that this would NEVER happen:

(Sakura isn't convinced, though, because she goes to monitor the exit out of the village anyway.)

I’m not criticizing Naruto for his response here.  I ADORE hearing him say that Sasuke is too strong to need Orochimaru, with such perfect confidence - I love seeing how much respect and admiration he has for Sasuke underneath all their fighting, because that’s the whole reason he’s always baiting Sasuke and yelling at him and claiming “you're not so great!” He looks up to Sasuke; he wants to be like Sasuke; he thinks Sasuke is awesome! (It’s that Obito @ Kakashi behavior, you know?) But the fact remains that he is clueless about what’s actually going on with Sasuke in Part 1, and he remains clueless(ly optimistic) for a long time.  

(Eg, when he catches up to Sasuke during the retrieval arc and Sasuke climbs out of that cursed seal coffin, Naruto waves at him and calls "Come on, let's go!" as if Sasuke has been successfully rescued and is now going to come running home.  Even in Part II, when Naruto hears that Sasuke killed Orochimaru, he beams and immediately says, “So he must be on his way back to the Leaf Village!”  And everyone else in the room is like, “....,” because they know better.  Naruto doesn’t yet fully understand [or doesn't want to accept] the extent to which Sasuke has willingly chosen this path, and it’s not until after Jiraiya’s death/the Pain attack/the Five Kage Summit that Naruto really starts to understand Sasuke more clearly, which is something he himself admits.)

Sakura, in Part 1, has access to more information about Sasuke - she’s there for his first dissociative monologue during the bells test, she’s there for the curse mark’s placement, she’s there for his first violent transformation in the Forest of Death - she is, in fact, the unwitting catalyst for it (“Sakura…who did this to you?”), and her compassion is the reason Sasuke is later able to overcome the curse mark’s influence - so she has a more accurate/complete picture of “how he’s doing,” for lack of a better phrase, whereas Naruto, who doesn’t know about the curse mark in the first place, is still in the dark.  This means that Sakura is able to accurately discern that Sasuke is struggling more than Naruto realizes, and specifically to predict that he’s going to run away.  

(This dynamic is then interestingly flipped in the back half of Part II, since at any point after the Five Kage Summit, Sakura doesn’t have access to extremely relevant [if currently questionable and unproven] details that would in any other circumstance inform her behavior).

Of course, just because she has more info in Part 1 doesn’t mean she has some kind of miraculous insight into Sasuke’s every thought and feeling.  There are parts of her attempt to convince Sasuke to stay in the village that are as clueless as any of Naruto’s assumptions, and they showcase the kind of magical thinking common to childhood - like when she says that if he stayed with her, she could give him happiness, she’d do anything for him, even help him get his revenge - this idea that she herself can do something to make him feel better, that she can love him powerfully enough to defeat his pain - obviously none of that is rooted in realism.

Is this part of her approach irrational and immature and inadvertently self-centered?  Of course it is!  But it’s no more irrational and immature and inadvertently self-centered than Naruto’s stated plan to drag Sasuke back to the village even if he has to “break every bone in [his] body!” 

Hating on Sakura for her Part 1 attempt to convince Sasuke to stay in the village while simultaneously lauding Naruto for his feels like a bad faith misread of what is, to me, pretty clear narrative intention.  The story doesn’t at any point intend for us to see her begging him to stay as a selfish or conniving attempt to get something she wants.  She’s begging him to stay for the same underlying reason that Naruto is: she cares about him.  She thinks he’s making a mistake that will only cause him more pain in the end (she’s right) and she wants to make it so he feels less pain right now (she can’t.  But she doesn’t understand that/isn’t able to admit that, and she’s willing to try ANYTHING that might help).  

It’s critical that this farewell scene is set in front of that same bench from their first important confrontation - she references that day and how angry he got at her, and this time she tells him that she understands his reaction.  She’s learned things and she recognizes how insensitive she was being back then (“I know what happened to your clan, Sasuke”), even though she still can’t fully grasp all the complexities of the situation. She tells him that him blowing up at her back then helped her understand what loneliness actually meant (as opposed to her previous shallow understanding of it), and she challenges him about his choice right now: "So that's it, you're choosing the lonely path?" And when she tells him that she'll be very lonely if he leaves, we're immediately shown a panel of Sasuke thinking of both his friends, with the very clear implication that if he goes through with this, he will be lonely without them, too - that he's still struggling with the idea of leaving them, no matter how hard he tries to pretend:

Sakura at this point knows that Sasuke isn’t interested in her the way she is in him, but she still wants to give him happiness, however fantastical and immature her ideas sound to us (and, I’m sure, to him).  “I’ll do anything, even help you get your revenge/we'll have fun every day, and...and you'll be happy! I'll make sure of it!” - of course, it’s completely childish.  It’s irrational.  It’s ridiculous to think that any of this would ever be effective, but no more ridiculous than Naruto’s belief that he can simply break every bone in Sasuke’s body and keep him in the Leaf by force.

Both Naruto and Sakura are children who have a deeply oversimplified understanding of Sasuke’s situation.  They both still think they can fix him themselves.  They both think they can save him themselves.  They both think they can convince (or force) him to do what they want, what they think is in his best interests.  Both of them don’t yet understand that he has to want to come back, if it’s ever going to mean anything.  Their attempts to keep him in the village are immature and unrealistic, yes.  What they aren’t, however, is selfish, because neither Sakura nor Naruto are doing any of this with the intention of advancing their own interests.  They’re only thinking about Sasuke - how to keep Sasuke safe, how to make Sasuke happy - even when neither of them are taking an approach that will actually work.

Naruto and Sakura are children.  They’re afraid of losing somebody they care about.  Their attempts to prevent that from happening are desperate and messy and ultimately ineffective, but they are also genuinely felt and rooted in a true desire to rescue Sasuke from his pain, which - and this is the single most important thing that should impact our viewing of Part 1 - is something that Sasuke RECOGNIZES.  He doesn’t spend that agonizingly long moment bowed over Naruto’s defeated body so we can pretend he doesn’t understand that Naruto was just trying to help him.  He doesn’t take the time to murmur, “Sakura…thank you,” before laying her out carefully on a bench, just so we can discount it and pretend that he doesn’t recognize and appreciate her genuine intention to make things better for him, however clumsy that attempt might have been.

2. the greater good

If Stage 1 Sakura is "the girl with the crush," then Stage 2 Sakura is a progression to “the girl who decides to put her feelings for Sasuke aside in order to protect innocent people, including (but certainly not limited to) Naruto.”  She’s driven to this decision by interactions with Shikamaru, who all too recently had to grow up fast himself (“We're not kids anymore...we can't allow a war to break out between the Hidden Leaf and the Hidden Cloud because of Sasuke") and Sai, who risks his new friendship with Sakura and Team 7 in order to speak some hard truths and deliver one of my favorite lines in the whole story: “I don’t know what promise Naruto made to you, but it’s really no different than what was done to me.  It’s like a curse mark.”

(INCREDIBLE.  How can anybody be complaining about a season where Sai gets to say something that goes THIS HARD and Sakura LISTENS and takes DRAMATIC ACTION that actually propels the story forward in a meaningful way - )

[Okay, yeah, brief personal opinion interlude - it is just bonkers wild to me that there are people who complain about Sakura in the Five Kage Summit arc. That entire season is the greatest character arc she ever has.  Literally she has never been more interesting and dynamic than in Season 10; it’s the first time she ever gets to be as deep and fascinating as the boys; what is everybody so worked up about?  Oh, “she lied to Naruto that one time” - Sasuke joined infant-kidnapping baby-murdering human experimentation machine Orochimaru when he was twelve years old in order to (dare I say it????) selfishly pursue his personal goals and yet, somehow, we are still able to root for him.  He abandoned his friends/allies to imprisonment and death (Suigetsu and Jūgo) or outright stabbed them in the chest himself (Karin) in order to (SELFISHLY) get what he wanted, and yet, somehow, we are still able to love him, understand him, and be on his side.  Naruto is canonically not upset with Sakura about her lie after receiving context for the situation and I think we can probably take our cues from him without feeling the need to bring her up on war crimes; please calm down]

[Sorry, I just really love most of Season 10 and think it’s one of the best examples of how good this story can be when every single character gets to do something that matters (as opposed to things being all Naruto, all the time) so I get a little bit worked up over people complaining about some of the best writing Sakura ever gets.  I don’t understand what certain elements of fandom want from her. People complain about her being “useless” and not doing anything that contributes to the story, but then they complain just as much when she does finally get to act decisively and have just as complex/dynamic an inner world as the boys.  She’s “weak” for being unreasonably in love with Sasuke, but when she tries to be “strong” and put her love for him aside and eliminate him in order to protect Naruto and the rest of the world, she’s evil, because she should have been more understanding of his situation (despite the fact that she doesn’t KNOW anything about his situation).  But then when she can’t go through with killing him after all because she cares about him too much despite the things he’s done, she’s not "compassionate" or "kind" or "a good friend," she’s “weak” again. Nothing Sakura does in S10 is more wrongheaded or rash than any of the batshit, buckwild things Naruto and Sasuke have done in the past (and will continue to do in the future), but when Naruto and Sasuke have big feelings or take bold action, it makes them interesting characters, whereas Sakura can’t breathe in anyone’s direction without being minutely scrutinized for moral impurities.]  

Anyway. Back to a more measured response.  

Every single piece of development Sakura has with regard to Sasuke in this season satisfies me so much.  Her initial shock and disbelief at hearing that Sasuke had joined the Akatsuki?  Good, appropriate.  The fact that she starts to acknowledge the reality of what Sasuke’s done sooner than Naruto does?  Also extremely appropriate, very in-character for both of them.  Her taking Sai’s words to heart and deciding that the promise she asked Naruto to make when they were children is causing him to suffer and she has to relieve him of that burden?  Juicy!  AND thematically significant (promises!!!!  the burden that a promise places on a person, especially when it can't be kept - we've seen that before in this story and we'll see it again).  Her anguished pivot from wanting to protect Sasuke to realizing that she has a responsibility to protect the countless innocents who will die because of the war he’s trying to start?  HELLO THIS IS INCREDIBLE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.  Her knocking out the classmates who agreed to help her so they don’t have to share in her burden (and so the only person Naruto will hate when it’s over is her)?  BRUH.  Her being so committed and focused on her goal of saving innocents and protecting Naruto (not just from being harmed by Sasuke/the Akatsuki, but by the possibility that Naruto will someday have to hurt Sasuke himself) that she tries to take everything on by herself and walks into a confrontation that she absolutely cannot win??  INCREDIBLE.  (Literally the first time I watched this, I said, “Finally!!!  It’s Sakura’s turn to go off the rails!”  I laughed with my sister about how Kakashi isn’t even mad, because Naruto and Sasuke have been pulling stunts like this for years and Sakura was way overdue for her own meltdown.)  And then, after Kakashi intervenes in the fight - Sakura barreling back into the battle when she realizes he’s going to take on the burden of killing Sasuke himself in order to spare her and Naruto the horror - “I can’t let Kakashi-sensei bear this burden!”  I love her for that.  

And then, of course, in the end - her not being able to do hurt Sasuke after all.  Despite committing herself to the act, despite forcing herself to put her feelings for him aside, despite resolving to stop him from starting a war and killing innocent people, she can’t harm him.  She cares about him too much.  This, too, is thematically significant - think about Itachi’s “you don’t have enough hatred” - she doesn’t have enough hatred to kill someone she cares about, even if it seems like he deserves it, even if would be the right thing to do to protect others.  She can’t do it, and Sasuke almost kills her for her compassion.  

I love the dynamic this sets up between her and Sasuke, for a few reasons:

1) Personally, I think Sasuke respects Sakura much more for trying to kill him than he would have if she’d just tried to talk him out of his behavior or beg him to come home (a la their original confrontation in Part 1).  This is the first significant interaction he’s had with Sakura in years, and the fact that she does something SO contrary to his memory of her is an important demonstration of the fact that she’s not the same girl she used to be.  Sasuke spends a lot of time after his defection declaring to his old team “I’ve changed; I’m not that person anymore,” but this is one of the moments where he’s forced to acknowledge that his teammates have changed, too.  Time didn’t just stop for them when he left.  While he was turning into someone new, so were they.  They grew up without him, and his old memories of them can’t encompass the whole picture of who they are now.  

(This is a little tangential, but in general, I love the spectrum of reactions that Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi have in this sequence, and the way that all of them are ultimately messages Sasuke needs to hear.  Sasuke - who we know textually regrets what he did here, who apologizes to Sakura for it later - for “everything,” in fact - needs Naruto’s aggressively optimistic open-arms policy, yes, needs that potential, that unconditional possibility of return.  He also needs Sakura’s refusal to let him hurt her friends and start a war that will kill thousands of people, needs her surprisingly ruthless attempt to take him down; needs just as much her failure to do so, because it shows him that she still loves him too much to kill him even as she condemns him.  And he needs Kakashi’s grim line in the sand, needs someone who very possibly won't hesitate like Sakura (despite the horrifying personal cost), someone who will try to reach him but also won't let him escape and become the next generation’s Orochimaru, who won't let him cause untold suffering to untold numbers of people just because a teacher loved him too much to stop him when he had the chance. 

(And then even Kakashi chooses not to deliver a killing blow when he has the opportunity -)

(I know that in fandom people are more likely to be all, “oh, Naruto Good, everybody else Bad,” but I don’t think the narrative frames Sakura or Kakashi as “worse” than Naruto in any way.  The story goes out of its way to make it clear how desperately they don’t want to hurt Sasuke and how much they care about him.  And [this is just my interpretation, so obviously I won’t claim it as fact], I personally think that Sasuke - Sasuke, who, looking back, can see how lost he was then and how tortured he would have been if he’d gone through with many of his plans - would be grateful to Sakura and Kakashi for making an attempt to stop him when he couldn’t stop himself.)

2) On the other side of this, the fact that Sakura wasn’t able to deliver the killing blow means a lot. Sasuke was incapacitated under that bridge; he was completely at her mercy - but she stopped with the kunai an inch from his back.  She couldn’t kill him, even though she knew that he was completely willing to kill her (because he'd attempted to Chidori-assassinate her from behind just a few minutes ago).  That’s huge!  Sasuke is too out of his head right now to process this or understand it, but later, it's going to matter.  She stayed her hand.  She spared his life.  She loved him too much to hurt him, even when he’d given her every reason to take him down.  She hesitated, and he almost killed her for it, but her inability to strike him ultimately gave him yet another chance to come home, another chance to get better, another chance to have a life outside of his pain.  Despite everything, some part of her still hadn’t really given up on him, and that knowledge will matter later, when he’s finally able to acknowledge it.  

The point of all this is to say that I really have no complaints about Sakura and Sasuke’s dynamic in their S10 confrontation.  This season is the point where Sakura fully grows past her “girl with a crush” stage and into her “shinobi must make very harsh decisions” adulthood, but it never means that she doesn’t care about the person she’s trying to take down.  Her ultimate inability to deliver the killing blow remains a dangling lifeline for her relationship with Sasuke, an open door that Sasuke is able to walk through at the end of the story (literally, in fact, when Sakura opens that portal for him and saves him from Kaguya’s desert prison, and figuratively, too, when Sasuke apologizes to her).

3. she only wants to save you

The last stage in their relationship is what Sakura settles into during the war arc.  She started off Part 1 being just a girl with a crush, then tried to harden her heart and put her feelings for Sasuke aside in service of the greater good, but she was unable to actually follow through and kill him, and because of that, what she’s come to accept by the war arc is actually two things: that 1) Sasuke truly is willing to let her die if it furthers his goals, and 2) she wants to save him anyway.  

She has no intention of pursuing Sasuke romantically.  She knows full well that Sasuke isn’t interested in her.  She even knows that Sasuke isn’t really on their side (there’s a great scene where Sai questions Sakura about Sasuke’s return, and she reassures him that everything is fine, and Sai sadly thinks to himself “even I can tell your smile is fake”).  She’s well-aware that Sasuke didn’t try to help her when Madara stabbed her.  She’s well-aware that he left her to die in the lava pit.  She’s also well-aware that none of this is enough to make her stop loving him.  He doesn’t have to care about her - she still cares about him.  She still wants to help him.  She still wants to save him.

This is not hidden, hard-to-parse character development.  It’s explicitly articulated on the page:

Sakura’s not trying or wanting to make you hers!  She only wants to save you.

I’m not sure if people look at this last confrontation and unquestioningly take Sasuke at his word (as if we haven’t just read 71 volumes/watched 700 episodes showing us how how painfully distorted his thinking is), or if they stop reading/watching before the end of the scene, or if they don’t understand that Sasuke saying something doesn’t make that statement an accurate representation of reality.  The entire point of this scene is to show us how deeply mistaken Sasuke is about Sakura (and, by extension, the rest of Team 7).  He’s locked into a false pattern of thinking.  His single-minded focus on revenge and destruction has blinded him to the unconditional love his friends feel for him; he’s become so accustomed to using others and being used that he can’t understand or accept that someone would care about him without needing a reason, without needing him to love them back, without needing to receive something from him in exchange.

Sakura’s not trying or wanting to make you hers!  She only wants to save you.

Sasuke matters to Sakura as more than a love interest.  He always has.  She does love him romantically, yes, but she doesn’t only love him romantically, and her desire to help him is not and has never been contingent on him returning her feelings, romantically or otherwise.  Sasuke isn’t able to acknowledge that in this scene, but that doesn’t mean we’re supposed to just sit back and agree with his warped perspective.  Kakashi is the one who’s explicitly positioned as the voice of the narrative here.  We, as the audience, are supposed to recognize that Kakashi is the one telling us the truth.

[tangential thing 1: You don’t have to love Sakura's last plea to Sasuke here. It’s not my favorite, either - the best part, other than Kakashi’s speech at the end, is the moment after Kakashi collapses when Sakura’s expression changes from pained uncertainty to pure rage, when she grits her teeth together - when I first saw that, I almost leapt out of my seat like “Oh my god.  She’s finally going to let him have it.  It’s finally happening - ”  I wanted that so badly, and I still think it would have been a more effective writing choice for Sakura’s last words to lean more into her anger at the suffering Sasuke is causing all of them (himself included!) and less into yet another of Kishimoto’s “let me have Sakura articulate what a shame it is that she can’t do as much as Naruto despite the fact that I literally just went through a major reveal sequence in the war to show that she’s caught up to the boys; I can’t make up my mind about whether I want her to progress or not” - it’s extremely frustrating (and it's something he does at the very end of the S10 Team 7 reunion, too, which is the ONLY moment of S10 that falls flat for me).  But at the same time, even if there are ways this sequence could be more satisfying, it doesn’t change the fact that her plea to him is not remotely motivated by a desire to be with him romantically and not anything to condemn her for.]

[tangential thing 2: I do like how she remembers that moment when Sasuke says “Thank you.”  That panel precedes her saying “If there’s even a tiny corner of your heart that thinks about me…” (which I’m sure is one of the things that people like to criticize about this scene, aka “oh she’s sooooo self-centered” etc), but that particular line of dialogue is preceded by that particular flashback panel for a reason: Sakura knows that Sasuke DOES think about her.  He thinks about all of them.  Sakura remembers that “thank you,” and it reminds her that despite everything Sasuke has done and said since, despite all evidence to the contrary, she knows in her bones that his expression of gratitude back then was genuine.  He cared about her once.  He cared about all of them.  She’s trying to reach the part of him that still does, if it exists.]

[tangential thing 3: The fact that Kakashi says “she suffers from loving you,” and it triggers Sasuke to remember his own family - thinking about how much he suffered (and still suffers) from loving them - “Perhaps…those are the ties to a failed past” - the idea that it’s not worth it to have bonds if it means you suffer this much…that it’s too difficult, it’s too painful, and if Sakura and the rest of Team 7 were smarter they would just give it up (all Sasuke knows how to do now is sever potential bonds before they can hurt him; so why aren’t Sakura and the rest of his teammates doing that, why can’t they let it go, why are they making this so hard - ) << yeah, he clearly doesn't care about her/them at all.]

4. the shadow of my family

This has all been a really long way to answer the original question, but the short response to “What do you think about the relationship between Sasuke and Sakura?” is “I really care about it,” just like I really care about the relationship between Sasuke and Naruto, just like I really care about the relationship between Sasuke and Kakashi. And I don’t think the story ever asks me to choose between them.

I’m not sure whether it’s the impact of Boruto-era “canon” that gets in the way of other people approaching things this way (I don’t consider sequel material when I evaluate the original story), or if it’s Kishimoto’s frequent disinterest in/disrespect towards female characters, which yes, does sometimes make it harder, or if it's a shipping thing (bane of my existence), or some combination of factors, but for me, taking one member of Team 7 out of the equation hobbles the rest of the story.  I can’t read/watch Naruto while hating one of the protagonists and loving the other three.  It doesn’t work like that for me.  The story wasn’t written that way, and there’s nothing in the text that would cause me to receive it that way.

That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with disliking one of the main foursome (or any character, for that matter) - obviously we're all going to have different preferences, and everyone is free to enjoy or reject whatever parts of a story they want, or to like or dislike whatever characters they want. I know that some people have more fun disregarding canon and doing their own thing, which is fine.  My own personal zone of enjoyment comes from receiving the story as closely to how I think it was intended to be read as I can, and personally, when I look at this particular story, what I see is that all the members of Team 7 clearly demonstrate their love for Sasuke in ways that he himself later recognizes and acknowledges. All of them are driven by their desire to save him and their unwillingness to hurt him. All of them make repeated choices to chase after him when he runs away, to trust him when he hasn't exactly earned it, to give him another chance when he doesn't appear to deserve it. ALL of them, not just Naruto, do these things multiple times throughout the story, and Sasuke owes his life (and thus his eventual recovery) to ALL of them, many times over. Kakashi disobeys Hokage-elect Danzō and breaks the law to negotiate for Sasuke's life with a foreign head of state. Sakura and Kakashi both have opportunities to kill Sasuke in the Land of Iron, and they choose to spare him instead. Kakashi stops Sasuke from killing his only friends at two different points in the story, which would have been a mistake Sasuke couldn't have recovered from. Sasuke would have died in Kaguya's desert dimension if Sakura hadn't saved him (Sakura, who knew that Sasuke wasn't even truly on her side yet, who knew he'd abandoned her for dead multiple times already that day). Kaguya's bone bullet would have killed Sasuke too, if Kakashi, with his intention to die in Sasuke's place, hadn't leapt in front of it (Kakashi, who also knew that Sasuke wasn't fully on their side yet, who also knew that Sasuke had abandoned him for dead earlier that day). Sasuke and Naruto would have BOTH died in the Final Valley if Sakura and a severely injured Kakashi hadn't chased after them to heal their injuries.

Remove any one member of Team 7, and Sasuke never makes it home. Without the combined efforts of all three of his teammates, he doesn't survive.  That’s the way it should be, thematically, for a story whose first and most foundational premise was the importance of teamwork, and since Sakura was just as essential to that framework as everyone else, I’m just as invested in her relationship with Sasuke as I am in his relationship with everyone else.  You can’t remove one leg from a four-legged stool without damaging the integrity of the entire structure, and for me, discounting any single member of Team 7 irreparably damages the integrity of the entire story. 

TL;DR: I love all of the Team 7 relationships, including Sakura and Sasuke's, because despite what some segments of fandom seem to believe, the text of the story never gives me any reason not to.

[sieglinde-freud]

i miss claude so badly im already planning my golden deer maddening run while still in the middle of black eagles. i just want my guy. my favorite guy. unfortunately i just love the black eagles as a group/cast but i am mourning my man (i never kill him btw)

[skitskatdacat63]

.

[stop-breaking-my-heart-telltale]

if dorian didn't show up, do you think louis would have shot minnie?

I do. I know some people think either he wouldn't have or he would've missed so that's why the writers had him shoot Dorian instead, but mmmmmm no, I don't personally think so. I like to think that if he had taken the shot, his shaky hands would've caused him to shoot her fatally.

Mostly because I'm already so normal about the fact that of the Ericson crew, Marlon and Louis are the only ones with a body count. Well, that we know of, but shown to us in the game, at least. Plus, we know it's Louis' first kill.

Like yeah, Clementine and AJ become part of the crew and they have bigger body counts, and if we're counting indirect kills caused by actions, then Tenn has a count... and I guess everyone has blood on their hands for blowing up the boat... but I'm talking about killed directly with a weapon like....... I lied, I'm not normal about that at all, Louis and Marlon are the ones who have killed someone in Louis' route. I'm also not normal about the fact that Louis kills Dorian and then even as he's clearly in shock, he tries to go with Clementine to get AJ, and then later on when they talk about it, he says it feels like bile but not quite and he's glad he has it in him to do it.... listen, listen, listen... I'm obsessed with that.

Anyway, so if Louis shot Minerva, I think he would've accidentally killed her and can you imagine? He's already enough of a mess after killing the woman who pinned him down and tried to cut his finger off [or succeeded] but he knew Minerva, they were friends before the twins were taken. Even Violet couldn't kill her even though that would've been the smarter thing to do, and we know thanks to meta knowledge that killing her would've saved lives, but Violet couldn't, and I don't think Louis would intentionally either.

Speaking of Violet, if Louis killed Minerva, I hate to think about what that would've done to Vi. I think she might've actually left at that point, like what was planned before it got changed to her being burned. I don't think she would've attacked Louis over it, though, like yeah she attacked Clementine in the cell but Louis? I don't know, but I don't think so just because it's Louis and he'd be a mess about it anyway.

Though if he did kill her, it would be a neat parallel to draw... y'know, because Louis forgave AJ for killing Marlon even though he was pissed and heartbroken, and Violet was annoyed with him the entire time... but could she ever forgive Louis for killing Minerva? Y'know? We already have a similar parallel with AJ shooting Tenn, but still.

If Clementine killed Minerva in that moment, though, then I could see Violet attacking her since in her eyes, Clem proved her right.

So yeah, I get why they added the Dorian kill to his route. It adds another compelling element to Louis as a character, but we also need Minerva alive for episode 4; Louis can't kill her, he can't miss, and he's not going to stay with her because we need Violet to stay on the boat and him to be on shore for all routes.

[drolta]

I’m sick of the drama about feminine Louis. They’re not trying to protect Louis at all, they’re just mad that for once a black man is being portrayed as soft and now they want to gatekeep the fics. But notice how when the reverse happens these blogs have NOTHING to say. Transparent ass bitches. I’m gonna write some loustat mpreg with bottom louis especially for these haters. Black fandom can’t have anything for themselves bc of people like this.

I’m not disagreeing anon. If anything, I support you.

[itsalwaysdark]

also its so dumb that one of the arguments ppl have against a sims 5 is that theyve already invested too much money into 4. like yes its fucking scummy that ea charges so much for dlc and its Ludicrous the amt sims 4 costs if you have all the dlc and its going to keep getting more and more expensive but . to be honest . why are you paying for sims packs. im sry