#but seriously though it is interesting to me how ppl have invented ways to stop caring about women but in a progressive way

[empyreasheart]

ok i am making one last post about fandom misogyny before i put it on a shelf so i stop getting so mad: noticing that m/f and f/f ships kinda receive the same disdain / apathy makes me feel like once a woman is involved people either get mad or dont care Lmfao

[debbiewilder]

top 5 debbie/ruth moments?

oh tough because first of all every moment between them is my favorite, but here’s what I’m feeling tonight, in no particular order.

1)

that entire fight scene at the hospital in 2x07. the whole series was building there, to them finally communicating more honestly, and it was just such a powerful, cathartic scene between the two of them.

this is cheating but I'm also counting a later moment as part of #1 because reasons

i love that moment when debbie comes back later in the ep with ruth’s clothes and asks to sign ruth’s cast but is so nervous and vulnerable she can’t even say the word sign she just says “can i s....” and just looks at ruth the whole time that she’s taking the pen from bash and waits for the okay. they can never really apologize to each other, ruth doesn't apologize for having sex w mark and debbie only apologizes in sharpie from the leg break but you just see how deeply they understand each other here and how at the end of the day they always come back to each other and take each other back (just like sheila’s parents bc ruth and debbie are paralleled to married people jeez GLOW yeah you can go ahead and parallel them to more married couples I’m fine with that thx)

2)

the whole 3x10 airport scene. throughout the series, debbie shows how deeply she cares about ruth but it’s rly always under the guise of it being about wrestling or this or that. finally in that airport moment, debbie’s basically saying “hey i care about you and i finally want you to really see that and I choose you because I want the best for you and i want the best for me and the best for me is with you..” (or something) and there’s just something incredibly powerful about the way the series builds to that moment too. 

i also find it so interesting how they once again discuss happiness and how much the meaning of that one word has shifted over the series (they also discuss happiness in their scenes in 1x01, 2x07, 2x10, and prob other times i’ve forgotten). 

also i love the hug, i mean we were waiting for it to happen again since the pilot. 

i love that we finally get to see that ruth isn’t going to passively take what others give her. (we know she’ll find her way back to debbie in the end, she always does).

and ruth saying that debbie understands ruth more than anyone?!! this scene  did that. i mean, we knew this in subtext, but this season took so much in subtext and made it text, and it all felt so earned. also the fact that Debbie says to Tex earlier in the ep that she could never say to Ruth what she legit ends up saying to Ruth in the end of the ep about Ruth’s acting...I...that’s so interesting. Like, yeah, Debbie truly does understand Ruth better than anyone, that is for sure. She legit predicted that Ruth’d say no here but was too excited and hopeful to think otherwise.

also debbie eagan who doesn’t like to be vulnerable w ppl or give up her power/control EVER, who has said stuff like i never want to see you again to ruth in the pilot, who said in 1x03 she’d throw ruth out a window if ruth talked to her again, legit running after ruth in an airport? invented romance, invented growth. what a dumbass, i love them both.

3)

1x04 pool scene. debbie can’t be in the same building w her husband but moments later chooses to stay for however long in silence w ruth...uh yeahh just the best. she has to act like she hates ruth because she knows that she shouldn’t care about ruth any more and she feels so powerless since her whole identity as housewife has been shattered that her hatred gives her a sense of control and power in ways, but in moments like these when she doesn’t have to act and have a mask on to protect herself because no one is watching, you see how much she cares and what ruth means to her. 

i love so much about this scene, the way silence and sound are used and it feels so intimate. i love the pool in between them, showing the gaping emotional distance between them.

it’s also such a contrast to those scenes w Mark who is always imposing on debbie what he wants at his pace rather than hers like therapeutic leans and wanting to sleep in their house but w ruth, debbie gets to choose the speed to which they come back together and is willing to be whatever debbie wants and takes debbie (her pain, her career, her as a person) seriously, so they actually get a chance to heal while debbie and mark fall apart in the end...yeahh

4)

1x09 that scene where debbie says what wrestling means to her and how she feels like a superhero (which becomes something they come back to again and again in the series) and you can tell ruth and debbie are still so fucked up but you can also see how deeply they need each other. 

like they’re so playful in the start of the convo?? and in the end can’t help but have an honest conversation even though they shouldn’t, even though ruth has hurt debbie so much, she can’t help but open up to ruth. and ruth thinks debbie’s going to abandon ruth (and GLOW) for mark, can’t seem to hear what debbie’s saying bc of insecurity (Debbie really just needs advice about what to do with Mark because she has no one else to talk to but Ruth can’t hear that), and it’s just such a perfect scene filled with miscommunication and need and the epicness of Debbie’s description of wrestling and the epicness of how Ruth listens with such intense longing and love and she’s just so proud of Debbie too and then that painful discovery “Sometimes I'm so sad you took away the option of us ever being able to have a normal fucking conversation.” I think we see both ruth and debbie’s insecurities and fears here in a lot of ways throughout this scene but also we see their connection and how they listen to each other and need each other...also omg they look at each other with soooo much love and longing jfc especially before Ruth looks away and she cuts herself off from speaking...it’s insane.....yeah i love this scene.

oh also the look of brief horror as ruth arrives at a lone debbie at the beginning of the scene, which I screenshotted above, where she realizes she’s stopped at debbie’s side and her face just screams, “oh nooo oh goddd!!” incredible. and the doorway thingy that visually separates them which happens a lot in the series, there are a lot of visual separations to go with their emotional distance. 

anyway, they’re testing the waters here. they’ve opened up to each other while wrestling because wrestling requires trust and communication, and this scene gives them an opportunity to test the waters with each other outside of that.  

5)

I think my favorite episode of the entire series is 1x07. In terms of favorite moment from that ep, it’d prob be the part where ruth and debbie describe what they want from wrestling. debbie says she wants to fly (again goes back to the superhero thing and i love the callback that occurs in 1x10 bc ruth pays attention to debbie’s wants here and says “you flew” at the end of their match in the finale). ruth says she wants the whole room to boo her, such a change over a few eps, the people pleaser who wants to be booed bc she just wants to make herself look bad to try and heal things w debbie and starts to find freedom and power in playing the bad guy. 

And the two are soo in sync as Carmen’s brothers show Ruth and Debbie various moves. Like they have the same reaction the whole time and confer with each other and it’s so cute?? And Debbie gets so excited as she sees something she wants to do and Ruth is so excited for her: “That. I want to do that.”

Like, ruth is just so excited to see how debbie’s grown and how empowered debbie has become because of wrestling. Adorable. and it’s super cute to see how ruth looks at debbie throughout the scene and just tries to be there for debbie. And, how much debbie trusts ruth with her body and safety and they just learn to communicate and explore what they want from their bodies together (such a difference from that 1x01 exercise scene where they’re all doing the same boring moves). like i love how empowering that scene is for them as individuals and together ok. 

Like, Ruth is Debbie’s #1 fan just look at her lil face in the screenshots above. She looks at her like that the whole episode. I just...

[mental-health-advice]

i don't know if i've been maladaptive daydreaming? i recently read about it and some of the things that ppl do who have it, i also do? but i don't know if i'm just daydreaming a normal amount! at night i do think up lil scenarios in my head with like my fave charas (like i'll imagine myself as a character in my fave movie and friend w/ my fave characters) but i thought everyone kind of did that? it's not stopping me from living my life. i do it sometimes in the day but that's usually- (tag stog)

(Stog) - when i'm alone and doing some sorta task at work and i'm just doing it to pass the time. i don't invent my own characters. i don't think I get attached? i like to act out situations in my head that are emotional (e.g. a fight or something w/ a chara) but it's only like acting in that moment. i don't like actually get angry and upset at these fictional ppl. i am attached to the characters in the movie or show I watch though, but isn't that normal to like fictional characters? i'm-

(Stog) -really aware of my daydreaming now and i don't know if i shouldn't be doing it?? everybody daydreams don't they? i like doing it but i don't take it seriously, i don't think these things are real, they don't stop me from completeing tasks. Very rarely i can't get to sleep sometimes because something is replaying in my head over and over but it's not me thinking about it on purpose and it's usually something random like a stupid jingle from and advert or thinking about what I did that day

Hi Stog,

This is a really interestingquestion! I think there’s a really fine line between normal daydreaming andmaladaptive daydreaming. The best way to figure out the difference between thetwo is to go over the signs of maladaptive daydreaming.

The signs may include:

Thedaydreaming is excessive and can be compared to an addiction;

Thisexcessive daydreaming started in childhood (in most cases);

Mediasuch as books, movies, videogames, etc. can trigger the daydreaming;

Youcould compare the daydreaming to a movie or novel, the daydreams are verydetailed and elaborate;

It’scommon to fall into repetitive moments while daydreaming, such as pacing,rocking, spinning, shaking something in their hand, etc;

Sometimesthe sufferer may make facial expressions, talk, laugh, cry or gesture whiledaydreaming. They do know the difference between their daydreams and reality,they just prefer the daydreams. However because they know their daydreamsaren’t real, they are different from people suffering from psychosis orschizophrenia;

Suffererswill spend hours in bed daydreaming and might have trouble falling asleep orgetting out of bed because of their daydreaming. The daydreaming can be to suchan extent that it causes the sufferers to neglect their basic needs (meals,showering, etc.).

(taken from our page onmaladaptive daydreaming)

So, looking at those signs,the biggest difference is really how disruptive the daydreaming is. It’s truethat most people daydream, but those with maladaptive daydreaming spend a lotmore time in their daydreaming, they don’t necessarily choose when they aregoing to daydream, and it gets in the way of their daily life. It takes up alot of their time and definitely goes beyond what typical daydreaming entails.Some people with maladaptive daydreaming don’t even realize in the moment thatthey are daydreaming and some would say they prefer daydreaming over reality.

Maladaptive daydreamingtechnically isn’t considered a diagnosable illness, but it’s still completelyvalid and you can still seek help for it. I can’t say whether you have it ornot, so you should consider seeking professional help to find out for sure.Even though maladaptive daydreaming isn’t something that can be diagnosed quiteyet, there are still treatment options for people who suffer from it. Thosetreatment options usually involve therapy (talk therapy, cognitive-behavioraltherapy, etc.) or medication in some cases. Because of that, if you areconcerned that you may be struggling with this, don’t be deterred from seekinghelp just because it’s not an official diagnosis yet. We have some informationabout getting help here if you’re wondering how you can reach out.

I hope this makes sense! Feelfree to let us know if there’s anything else that we can do to help.

-Samantha

[comicteaparty]

December 28th, 2017 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party chat that occurred on December 28th, 2017, from 5PM - 7PM PST.  The chat focused on Cosmic Fish by Cosmographia.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

Good day everyone~! This week’s Comic Tea Party is now officially beginning. Today we are discussing Cosmic Fish by cosmographia~! (http://cosmicfishes.com/) For those new to CTP, discussions about the comic are freeform, so please feel free to bring up whatever you wish. However, every 30 minutes I will be dropping in a discussion question to help those who would like a prompt. These questions are totally OPTIONAL to answer so pay them no mind if you wish~! Remember, constructive criticism is allowed, but the primary focus here is to have fun and appreciate the amazing comics that the community makes~! Each chat a top comment will be picked and featured on an ad for this chat, so let’s have a great discussion~!

With that said, let us begin with this first question~!

QUESTION 1. What is your favorite scene in the comic so far and why?

for me my favorite scene is the silent interaction between syias and bells while they are fighting ramus. i think so much of the visuals to the moment illustrate their relationship beautifully. it was a moment that really cemented them as my favorite guardians in the story

another scene that im particularly fond of is that one where bells and schnell talk and he tells her to change her strategy. there was something ominously dark about it in a way that felt....realistically practical? cause while i dont trust schnell's intentions, i cant disagree with his practicality in the matter. i mean is he really wrong since insofar, it doesnt seem bells' strategy has been particularly effective

✨Tenor✨

I haven't gotten to read this week but I've seen the art and style and it looks super good so I'm hoping to catch up after my end of the month rush

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

yes you should. cosmic fish is a very well-illustrated comic. and the lore behind it is pretty intense. i think a lot of aspects capture that its its own world

cosmographia

Hello everyone!! So sorry for being a tad late

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

thats okay a lot of the regulars are late/might not come i guess? holidays have been killer i imagine

cosmographia

yeah it's been a busy time for all

but ey I am SO glad that both Syias and Schnell's scenes are really effective! It's really fun to write characters that are morally gray

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

im glad to hear. moral grayness can be a challenge to write for sure.

syias i think is more sympathetic than schnell. schnell is kind of a jerk cause enigmatic reasons. whereas syias is a jerk cause gotta do whats good for the world and then he head pat apologies bells.

i might be biased cause i have a fondness for the guardians XD

for me theyre one of the most interesting parts cause of their roles and how they interact with others

cosmographia

hahahahaha that's definitely fair! they're slowly coming into the picture and become more prominent in this chapter and so forth. (the guardian lore is insaaane and I'm so glad we're finally there hahahaha)

✨Emma the Festive🍠Potato✨

I liked the beginning of chapter 5

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

yes. admittedly from a more critical level ive been liking the later chapters a smidgen more cause its tying things that happened earlier together a lot better. cause the initial chapters while well-written, always kind of felt connected mostly by protagonist. but the later chapters are really making everything seem like threads of the same world since motivations and past events and all that stuff is coming into play

what did you like about it specifically @✨Emma the Festive🍠Potato✨ ?(edited)

cosmographia

yess! I'm really glad to hear that! The first chapters are definitely meant to feel a little looser until all the pieces come into play. And Emma, I'm glad chapter 5 is really clicking with you!

✨Emma the Festive🍠Potato✨

I guess the end of chapter 4 is included in the reason why I like it It's just when we see that Ramus has become huge and stuff, I felt that was really impactful

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

ah yes, thats definitely a good reason. my heart was a little broken from that moment. cause it was like the emobidment of worst case scenario

and after seeing hte flashback

can just imagine how many people are going to be sad and crying O_O

except for schnell. schnell probs just gonna shrug say welp sucks to be ramus

cosmographia

hahahahahah

I think an important thing to keep in mind is that Schnell is...very old and even if he claims to be a guardian he still doesn't have the same concept of time as they do, so he's probably bitter and tired of that by now

there's a comic I haven't uploaded onto the main site yet (since there already was a gone fishing between chapters 5 and 6) that kind of explores Schnell how he was 250 years before the current events

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

oh man that sounds super interesting. especially cause schnell who in my opinion is the most mysterious of all the time.

his weariness definitely comes through though i think

especially through his expressions

where they just always struck me as someone saying "dang kids and their newfangled ways"

cosmographia

HAHAHAHAH

that is not far off honestly

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

lol oh man, i must understand schnell better than i realize then.

✨Emma the Festive🍠Potato✨

Yeah Schnell is cool and interesting, I would like to know more about that guy

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

QUESTION 2. Bells and Schnell are entangled in a complicated “game” that directly correlates to ghosts coming into existence. However, Schnell is enigmatic at best. What is Schnell’s goal with this game, and why does he care about ghosts being saved? Why does Bells even agree to play this game? As the first ghost, how did Schnell come to exist? Does it have anything to do with the game? Lastly, what is this “fish” that Schnell’s mentioned to Bells that would make his job easier?

cosmographia

hahahaha as is with the story, there's going to be a few bits and pieces about Schnell presently, but as for his backstory and past in general, is still going to take a bit to explore (to not lunge the reader with too much information, especially since we're still in the adaluxen arc) 2) Great questions, one second!

- What is Schnell’s goal with this game, and why does he care about ghosts being saved? Schnell originally served under Bells (in the Monster King comic, he's still wearing what is currently called the Guardian uniform) and he assisted Bells in returning ghosts back to where they came from with other characters we may have met but can't say ;D So despite him being tired of what he defines as "Bells' constant failures" and even promoting them (as he says in chapter 4 that he IS to blame with why Acantha wasn't saved), he's trying to use negative reinforcement to get Bells to do [something] I can't say yet but it's definitely related to Schnell's earliest memory he told Acantha in chapter 4. (About the white being that drinks tea) -As the first ghost, how did Schnell come to exist? That is sadly a spoiler for now, but he is definitely telling the truth that he was a ghost and with Bells' and the other guardians misunderstanding of what a ghost was (since they had never seen one before) did lead to how he got his powers. (This will be explored later) -Does it have anything to do with the game? The "game" was invented after Schnell stopped working for the guardians, it's more of a jab as in "if you're not going to take this seriously, let's make it a game then" kind of approach. -Lastly, what is this “fish” that Schnell’s mentioned to Bells that would make his job easier? The fish is actually a cosmic fish, they are actual physical entities but that's all I can say for now hahaha

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

hmm some food for thought for theorizing

cosmographia

hahahah yea no definitely go ahead and share if you have any theories

MathTans the Pun Prince

I made it home! ^.^

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

im actually most surprised by the fact schnell actually helped return ghosts at one point. i personally always thought he was eternally bitter

welcome math~!

cosmographia

hello there! hahahahah

he holds bitterness and resentment for a lot of things since day 1 though, you are not far off it's just things that gradually evolved

MathTans the Pun Prince

Gonna take a second to catch up, but in terms of favourite scene, I actually liked the whole "Toy" side story. It showed the Guardians of the world, showed they weren't omnipotent, showed they were maybe out of touch through no fault of their own, just thought that was very clever.

(Delves into backlog.)

cosmographia

much like Acantha, he was very optimistic but after a while he lost it. So Schnell is semi-meant to represent the bitterness Acantha could eventually develop if she dwells on her failures

ey thanks! but oh man I'm so glad the out of touchness is clear in that!! guardians are definitely out of touch with the world, of all ironies

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

for me the out of touchness perhaps more came about when ramus attacked i think

just cause they didnt pay mind to the ppl around

just were focused on fighting

and syias was like "yeah sure another guardian can show up im sure nobody will freak out"

cosmographia

yea that's definitely important later

even with Bells trying to befriend Acantha, she's more determined like "I'M approaching her so it'll be cool right" without actually considering the harm's she's done (the collar, some resentment, etc.)

MathTans the Pun Prince

Yeah, lots of lore in this one. Interesting how things don't necessarily end happy or sad, it's just like, this is how things are for better or worse. Also, yeah, like Bells as a character.

Guardians are interesting in general.

cosmographia

yessssss, thank you Math!

I'm sometimes worried the comic comes off as too pessimistic when it's meant to be an inbetweener

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

i cant speak for everyone but i think its an inbetweener. or more accurately, i think the story is just reality based, in that reality isnt pessimistic or optimistic 100% of the time

it just is what is it

bad stuff happens

and ppl have to keep living

so really i just feel like the characters are living actual live

s

that have consequences

MathTans the Pun Prince

Acantha took getting used to as well. What with the attitude and stealing and stuff. (Which is weird to say, because my protagonists aren't always sweetness and making the right decision either.) I gravitated a bit to Bells.

cosmographia

Ah Rebel I'm really glad to hear that!! Hahahah I think that's fair, she's definitely written to be bratty at first

MathTans the Pun Prince

Q2: Schnell just seems to have it in for Bells somehow? Like, maybe he had mother issues in his life and he's taking it out on her as "mother ghost" kind of deal IDK. Using everyone else to do that.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

man i cannot unpicture someone pointing at schnell and just shouting "you have mother issues!"

XD

cosmographia

HAHAHAHA

MathTans the Pun Prince

Once we see Acantha's history she becomes loads more sympathetic too, to be clear.

cosmographia

p sure if/when the ghost kids find out about that they'll just slowly turn to him and go "REALLY????" cuz THEY definitely have valid father-figure issues

good!!

MathTans the Pun Prince

"Were you hugged enough as a child?"

cosmographia

Hahahahahahahaha

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

yeah i really appreciated acantha's backstory. i think it was super needed right at the point it was presented. cause it finally showed that her own actions and attitude were a direct result of her past and what happened

cosmographia

good!! There's definitely chunks missing from there but they'll be studied throughout the story (and also gone fishing short stories thrown here and there)

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

>v>

in regards to question two part of me has been wondering if schnell just doesnt like his own life and he wants ghosts to be saved so he himself can be saved and move on.

MathTans the Pun Prince

Yeah, negative reinforcement is really kind of a dick move. IMHO. Hmm, so cosmic fish bunnies exist outside of space time?

(Ok, caught up...)

cosmographia

ooh ho ho nice theory Rebel! Ah yeah cosmic fishes are not directly related to Lheur (but I can say he is part cosmic fish, but not entirely)

MathTans the Pun Prince

I kind of wonder if Schnell really does know more than he lets on. Like, maybe he's been able to exist as long as he has by drinking the blood of virigins every hundred years. And he doesn't want anyone to kill because then they might stumble on the secret too.

Lheur is a fish offspring perhaps.

cosmographia

hahahahah no it's not THAT dark hahahahhaha mmmmaybe ;D

though I CAN say that, like guardians, cosmic entities like the fish and such can't biologically reproduce

wishjacked

Oh hey, I'm not going to be able to talk much (I'm at a holiday party!!) but I wanted to say that I finally read through the chapter three epilogue after this comic being on my TBR for ageeeeeees and I cannot wait to read the rest!!

MathTans the Pun Prince

(Have I mentioned I put out crazy theories? Cuz I do that.)

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

ah see, clearly bells made schnell on purpose cause she was like "ah man being a mom would be great" and now schnell is bitter cause he has an eternity to live

cosmographia

hi Wishjack, thank you!!! And I hope you have a wonderful time at the party (hahaha no problem at all, I find them funny)

hahahahah

MathTans the Pun Prince

Hiya wishjacked! Any fave in what you read?

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

thanks for stopping in wishjacked~!

cosmographia

Bells "aw man I definitely wish I knew what being a mom is like" -creates the most brattiest, entitled little thing- "....dammit"

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

meanwhile syias is in the bg saying i told you so

wishjacked

Such a good story so far, I'm really enjoying the characters and worldbuilding!! The bit with the mayor getting eaten by the starfaces was my favorite moment so far, and I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing how the story progresses!! Schnell's design slays me every time, it's so good.

cosmographia

ahh thank you wishjacked!!

and PFFT

Syias: lemme guess, now you want a PET? -Lheur shows up- Syias: OH COME ON.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

QUESTION 3. One of the larger conflicts in the comic is whether or not ghosts can be saved. Exactly why do ghosts form in the first place? Do you think they can actually be saved? Why can’t the guardians save them from the get-go? If ghosts are doomed to become monsters/change like Ramus, why hasn’t Schnell changed? Is this human character, Midah, going to have some role in their salvation? Speaking of which, what is Lheur’s (the rabbit-fish) role in all this?

MathTans the Pun Prince

Oh yeah! That thing with Mayor Pain was clever in terms of showing the light/dark reversal kind of thing too. Like, how it was actually not a bad thing and just part of "life", such as it is.

Also, twintailed star people. Strangely cute.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

i liked mayor pain's reaction to being "eaten"

that was like a hilarious expression moment all around for everyone

cosmographia

Hahahahah! okay yea one sec!

MathTans the Pun Prince

Also, french bread puns (and puns in general) gets an A+.

When having dinner, Lheur might have a minute amount of seconds.

Going back to the quesiton, I wonder if ghosts form from things other than humans.

(Schnell has the blood of virgins thing going for him, like vampires...)

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

oh thats a good question math

i never considered that possibility

MathTans the Pun Prince

It just seemed like if they have no memory of being human, maybe they weren't, but I'm not sure about the alternative.

As to Lheur's role, it seems to be making collars.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

hmm. its possible. although i considered the fact they dont remember being human is just from the sheer fact they no longer possess the brain that contains their memories. so its not like theyd have concept of what a human even is

MathTans the Pun Prince

Mayor Pain wasn't exactly human either though.

Of course, that might have been another plane of existence entirely.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

yeah we do gotta remember lheur teleported them somewhere. who knows where that even was.

not to mention theres monsters besides ghosts anyway

so the existence isnt that odd

MathTans the Pun Prince

True. Maybe it's regrets of the guardians made manifest or something. >.<

cosmographia

Exactly why do ghosts form in the first place? I can't really give the exact reason as to WHY they're there without diving into spoilers, but ghosts' bodies are a defense mechanism to a world they're suddenly being thrust upon. They don't go through the normal developmental process of baby, childhood, teenager, adult, but are thrown in at mid-teenager and expected to pick everything up in a matter of days. So their bodies are responses to society, personal, and cultural expressions and after a while they just CAN'T go back to where they came from (literally and metaphorically) Do you think they can actually be saved? I think anyone can be saved but it's not in the concepts a lot of western cultures define it as. It's not that someone like a friend or a romantic partner saves you or a higher entity (in this case guardians), but more how much you're willing to accept your own flaws and work toward them for your OWN betterment and everything else comes afterward. So a lot of what happens later isn't about being saved by a guardian before they turn, but WHAT you do with the circumstances and your own definition. You sometimes can't take back the things you've said and done (Ramus physically hurting Hessa, and Acantha's crime that often gets talked about) but how you respond to it, gives it meaning (Ramus allowed his negative thoughts to control his life till he became a monster, Acantha just pushes forward) Why can’t the guardians save them from the get-go? The only guardians that have the connections to the ghosts are Bells and Syias mainly because they feel the life cycle being disturbed, but for them to actually locate a ghost is a bit of a task. Actually, I'll answer this question with another question, if in chapter 1 we see that Bells compresses the souls but we know they can't filter through the guardian, where does she take them? ;>

If ghosts are doomed to become monsters/change like Ramus, why hasn’t Schnell changed? That definitely has to do with his powers and something else we'll see at the very beginning of the next chapter ;D Is this human character, Midah, going to have some role in their salvation? HEHEH. We'll see. Speaking of which, what is Lheur’s (the rabbit-fish) role in all this? Honestly, I'm gonna explain this soon so I'll say it here, but Lheur's role is that he makes sure the universes are running smoothly and healthy. He's kinda like the little guy with a notebook who takes notes at anomalies and leaves, but has befriended Bells little by little through his visits And yea, the comic has never stated if they were human at all, and honestly, that doesn't matter since they can't go back nor have memories from that possibility. They could've been anything or even nothing! It's who and what they are now that counts

MathTans the Pun Prince

Speaking of western cultures, it's interesting to see some of the Puerto Rico tidbits. I like stuff like that.

cosmographia

oh I like that theory Math

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

peeks in

Hw yeveryone

Almost forgot about CTP again

cosmographia

Yea!! I honestly wanted to make a comic that would motivate people to find the reference or see something and go "-gasp- that looks like the thing in Cosmic Fish!"

hello there!!

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

hey super~!

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Hi Cosmo! Hi Rebel!

MathTans the Pun Prince

Well, and with Acantha's many eyes, I originally thought she was the comic fish. (Maybe she is, in a metaphor way?) But now it seems more likely to be beings like Lheur.

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Also that's an intresting piece of trivia

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

ah okay i guessed right on lheur. i thought thats what his role would actually turn out to be. that hes some being of order spying on things to make sure everything is okay. but then this begs the question of whether or not the ghosts are considered anamolies.

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Refrences are fun to do

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

as for where bells took the soul i assumed it was to some cosmic place where the cosmic fish are

but now i think that makes is sound like the souls are fish food

cosmographia

Nice!! Ghosts are definitely anomalies ooh interesting guess! ovo

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Ooh is that so

MathTans the Pun Prince

The souls are soles? O.o

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

and idk i could still argue acantha is the cosmic fish in a metaphorical sense, math. it depends on what the message of the comic is cause acantha could be considered the embodiment of the title even if shes not the literal fish as far as the lore is concerned

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

also Acantha is the cutest thing with six eyes that I've seen yet(edited)

cosmographia

thank you justing!!

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

if lheur is responsible for the collar i wonder if the collar is some sort of experiment from lheur's "superiors" to see if they can help ghosts move on and return things to status quo

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

You're welcome XD

MathTans the Pun Prince

I still have such a soft spot for Bells. With her rolly head. I don't like that Schnell teases her about it.

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

I'm actually Justin but everyone in this group likes to call me Justing

cosmographia

yea!! Yea you're right on the money about the metaphorical title Rebel, cosmic fish is attributed to Acantha's personal growth + an actual thing in the story

oh ok sorry <"D

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Lol it's k XD

MathTans the Pun Prince

OH, which reminds me, in one of those animated sequences (which OMG, very impressed that it's a thing) it looked like Bells' head was rolling away until she grabbed it and I laughed. (edited)

cosmographia

ooooh I love these theories

hahahahaha YEA!

MathTans the Pun Prince

Rebel: Hm, maybe? Are the true cosmic fish Lheur's surperiors, and they made him to keep tabs on things?

"Create some bunny ears to be more non-threatening."

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

I'm also a total sucker for characters with stick eyes like Bells/Raju

(and thank you deeply for doing chapter recaps)

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

maybe. although makes me wonder what cosmic fish are again. like are they embodiments of the universe. beings that exist in the cosmic flow of life. O_O regular ol' space fish

cosmographia

hahahahah OH ey good!

hahaha

ah man I can't say yet

I CAN say they're kinda dumb.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

regular ol' space fish it is

cosmographia

hahahahahah

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

schnell just wants to have a good fish dinner

cosmographia

he just wants the pet fish Bells told him he wasn't responsible enough for it

MathTans the Pun Prince

They're Acantha's siblings sent back through time after she creates them.

cosmographia

oh GOD

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

lol

I want a pet space fish

cosmographia

no , like...time is a thing but there's no legit time travel in the comic I REFUSE to work with time travel(edited)

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

that's understandable

since time travel is in everything these days

cosmographia

yeah honestly

also I don't want the answer to the comic to just be "time travel"

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

i do kind of wonder if acantha had some sort of interaction with the cosmic fish unknowingly just cause she kind of wound up looking like a fish dragon thing

MathTans the Pun Prince

Hee. I do time travel. It's not as popular as you might think. ^^ But there was one remark about how time was fluid or something and so how they're not really ghosts, that's an element.

cosmographia

time is a very delicate and finicky thing in the comic so it's unreliable, nervous, and nobody likes it

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

I'd probobly try time travel a grand total of one time in my series(edited)

because the story is all about it

Especially since you have to write about things like, paradoxes

cosmographia

yeah!

MathTans the Pun Prince

Maybe Acantha will learn how to do the cosmic fish teleport, maybe that's what the collar is preparing her for.

cosmographia

and as for the question Rebel, it'd be interesting yeah! But for now nah, Acantha just looks fish-like because she was drowning. She isn't technically special in any way.

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

oh really

cosmographia

ye ye

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

QUESTION 4. Our protagonist, Acantha, has numerous mysteries about her. With her being Bells’ newest strategy to save ghosts, the mysteries are more poignant than ever. Do you think Bells is right that Acantha might save the ghosts/prove Schnell’s wrong? While it’s implied Acantha broke the rulef about killing the past, what do you think exactly happened (and why does that rule exist)? Will she reunite with Hessa and the others? How will she react to Ramus’ death? Will we ever find out how Acantha became a ghost exactly due to Schnell’s machinations?

cosmographia

if anything Schnell is supposed to be the "special/chosen one/what have you" he's the half-and-half, as in, half ghost half guardian that stories usually use to treat as the hero but he ain't!!(edited)

MathTans the Pun Prince

Maybe Acantha broke the rule partly to annoy Schnell.

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

what about half spider

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

well i remember it was implied that she did it to protect the others

but from what

from some icky human

?

MathTans the Pun Prince

Schnell is like evil Hercules.

Maybe to protect them from Schnell. She says she doesn't trust him.

confleiks

so i may have just pictured schnell in an ill-fitting kid's costume of disney hercules

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

perhaps

MathTans the Pun Prince

Bells is Hades?

"Whoa, is my head off?"

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

MIND BLOWN

MathTans the Pun Prince

Just reverse the morality.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

hmmm

cosmographia

Do you think Bells is right that Acantha might save the ghosts/prove Schnell’s wrong? Their bet mainly consists that despite everything that happened, Acantha still saved a ghost (back in chapter 1) unlike what Schnell would have done. So, in a way, yes, I think Bells is on to something but is approaching it in a very black and white way and that can be bad for Acantha. So both need to work on their own things there. While it’s implied Acantha broke the rule about killing the past, what do you think exactly happened (and why does that rule exist)? There are a few reasons, killing is considered a problem with ghosts because, it's, well, bad, and it might speed up the process since ghosts change into monsters due to negative thoughts. Also since ghosts aren't SUPPOSED to be there, them killing someone is a paradox (though nothing universe breaking is happening, so it might just be guardian paranoia) and Schnell is against killing personally because he believes there are worse punishments. What Acantha did, IS covered soon, so I can just say, she deliberately killed a human and it wasn't even out of self-defense. Her own reasoning is understandable once that's taken place (it's foreshadowed a bit in Gone Fishing 003, the one with Midah) Will she reunite with Hessa and the others? Time will tell, but most likely because good narrative structure would incline that to be so, but it's really a matter of WHAT will happen and WHEN ;D How will she react to Ramus’ death? Oh we're finding out about that very soon, so stay tuned! Will we ever find out how Acantha became a ghost exactly due to Schnell’s machinations? Yesssss, by next chapter!

and hahahahaha

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

oh boy

dis is gonna be fun

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

my semi crack theory is that schnell happened upon unformed acantha and said "ah mother isnt here" and then he kicked her into the lake/river

and then sipped some tea

MathTans the Pun Prince

Speaking of Acantha and Schnell, Gallo was pretty cool. And funny at times. Though he really shouldn't have spilled the beans there, in retrospect.

cosmographia

hahahaha no she WAS there but close ;D

MathTans the Pun Prince

Possibly sipped the tea first.

cosmographia

hahaha

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Did i hear

tea

MathTans the Pun Prince

I also liked with Gallo's first appearance Acantha was all "nope nope nope". Then it got echoed later. Nice little throwback.

cosmographia

he really shouldn't have but I'm hoping once i get the short stories edited and out into the world, it's going to be very clear that the ghost kids are crazy dependent on Schnell as their fix-all solution YEEES

confleiks

@cosmographia HI MOM

cosmographia

good on ya for catching the callback

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

TEEEEEAAAAAA

cosmographia

@confleiks HI MOM

tea is important in the comic hahahaha well for a few characters but

MathTans the Pun Prince

Good on you for writing it.

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

@cosmographia HI MOM

I like comics that have tea as a theme for some reason

cosmographia

hahahahah

I'm trying to get to the page that the tea thing is mentioned

MathTans the Pun Prince

Also Gallo makes me think "pico de gallo" and he's red like salsa so that works.

cosmographia

http://cosmicfishes.com/comic/chapter-4-page-20/

Cosmic Fish

cosmographia

Chapter 4, page 20

HAHAH Gallo means rooster, so close enough!

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

i really like gallo's design. but speaking of gallo i enjoy the fact that there are certain things they cant do cause of how their bodies are made. like the fact gallo doesnt really have hands so has to pick stuff up with his teeth. thats a really nice detail

MathTans the Pun Prince

Hands are really an issue with the guy, of course.

Yeah, my spanish is not good. ^^;

cosmographia

yea!

Gallo is handicapped but it isn't plot or character-development related, it's just a thing that is and that's ok!

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

so a cartoon monster or whatever Schnell is loves him some tea

MathTans the Pun Prince

Can Acantha ever close all her eyes? Like, I can see why she wouldn't like dark tunnels, not used to never seeing anything.

cosmographia

the two small ones have transparent eyelids like crocodiles

confleiks

I wonder if Acantha ever threw a blanket over his head because she thought he might think it's nighttime and fall asleep

cosmographia

but they see shapes and shadows for the most part

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

lolol

cosmographia

HAHAHA

confleiks

YES HAHAHAHAHA

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

thats a good picture. i accept this as a canon scenario.

cosmographia

maybe it'll help her in her next stealthy heist

hahahaha

MathTans the Pun Prince

Oh yeah, cosmographia, saw some of your little pics at the bottom of some comics, those were clever.

cosmographia

ah thanks!!! poking fun at your own stories is A+

MathTans the Pun Prince

It's a thing with those who enjoy puns, maybe.

cosmographia

HA

maybe...definitely

there's a good number of puns or playful naming decisions for most characters here

MathTans the Pun Prince

I'm sure I only noticed half. ^^

cosmographia

hahaha well some become more relevant later

Acantha isn't JUST called Acantha because of the mirror decoration

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

OMG LOL

THAT PIC

MathTans the Pun Prince

So you have the whole thing sketched out for a while yet, eh?

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

The rag is the ultiamte weapon

MathTans the Pun Prince

OOOooooh, interesting. (Reminded of the pic where she's just taking the mirror away, heh.)

cosmographia

she's a "support" for other characters ;3 likeapillarsupport...it'sagreekthing

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

heehee

cosmographia

hahahah

MathTans the Pun Prince

It's so ionic.

cosmographia

and YEAH! the characters are pretty old and the story took a long time in the oven andalotofreading

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

oh really?

how long have you been planning this comic?

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

i did wonder if acantha's meaning was super on purpose and not just cause timing and place XD

cosmographia

2012...? At least that's when the first draft happened, some characters are from 2009 or so

hahahahahah

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

ooh wow

cosmographia

yea it's unconscious but also it'll start gaining relevancy throughout the story right now it's just her own word for identity, so it's a "self" definition, and it needs to evolve into "action" or how it's perceived.

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

mine started planning around '09, but I haven't started making the full story for it yet

cosmographia

ooh!

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

and I have a feeling it'll take me a long time

cosmographia

that's normal though, and also gives you a time to re-do things

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Yeah

cosmographia

or re-establish them and make em more solid

MathTans the Pun Prince

The little plush doll cameos was cute in that one update too, wonder if that was inspired by something?

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Lots of things have changed in my project over the years, mostly for the better

(at least I hope the changes I did make were for the better)

cosmographia

CF definitely became WAY better when I started researching the science-y parts oh! it was a thank you for a lot of people who were supporting me at the time and just did a call on twitter and fb if people wanted cameos

good!!

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

oh nice~

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

i like that idea of acantha's name turning from a piece of identification into an action. thats a really beautiful sentiment that i think suits the comic

cosmographia

whoo!!

thanks!

MathTans the Pun Prince

Gotcha. Animation bits also impressed me. Nice that you have the support and music and such for such things.

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

yea

MathTans the Pun Prince

And all the best with you health-wise cosmographia (I read some of the author remarks and comments).

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

^

Best of luck and hope everything goes smoothly

cosmographia

thanks!! I wanted to make animated bits for every chapter but that soon proved to be wayyy difficult. Major kudos to the musicians who've helped and sometimes having months in advance to plan out scenes. (Bells juggling her head while fleeing from Ramus was made like...5 months in advance)

ay thank you so much!!

MathTans the Pun Prince

That whole thing with Bells head, subtle running joke, don't know why it amuses me so much.

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Welcome

MathTans the Pun Prince

Maybe cuz I like her character and it helps show that she's also a bit imperfect.

cosmographia

hahahaha GOOD!

confleiks

Bells is like a very excitable and eager to please ancient puppy and I love her so much

cosmographia

Bells was definitely made to APPEAR like the perfect fix-all character but definitely is neither of those things upon further inspection

yessssss :')

confleiks

she'd be a cocker spaniel or bassett hound because of her long ears :>

MathTans the Pun Prince

Hee! She has dogged perseverance.

confleiks

BA DUM TS

cosmographia

hahahahahaha

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

relatedly i want to say i really like the mentions of how the ppl worship the guardians. i think it really capture the disconnect between ppls idealistic image of them and the actual true nature of their existence

cosmographia

^^^^^ Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Yea

MathTans the Pun Prince

Another nice callback actually was when Acantha said she didn't like the story of the toy, which had been shown earlier.

Rebel: Very good point.

cosmographia

"the guardians are perfect and want what's best for us" -Bells trips in the next scene-

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

lol

MathTans the Pun Prince

Also, I think it was the right idea to not really have people until the later chapters. Keeps the focus on the curious beings, who are the major players.

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

^

cosmographia

Ye!! It also kinda hinted that any potential narrator might not be a narrator but something....or someoooone

yea!!!!

cosmographia

"what's the toy?" Oh, literally just a bed time story Schnell told Acantha and she hated it.

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

i do like seeing humans tho. cause everyone kept mentioning them but i was like "where are they O_O"

cosmographia

HAHAHAH

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

"who are these "living" things"

MathTans the Pun Prince

"Humans are mythological creatures."

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Are ghosts made of flesh in this comic?

cosmographia

"they're not the center of the universe it seems, just some other random animal"

yeah they gain a physical body but they can't control it after a while

MathTans the Pun Prince

It is interesting that humans aren't really huge or anything though. They're size-wise about right for everything else, I think.

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

ooh

Superjusting of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

alroight then

MathTans the Pun Prince

All the best with the fishy stuff going forwards then. ^.^

cosmographia

yea they're just...part of everything else. Which is also why I was very avoidant of using them at the beginning, cuz this isn't a story about them no matter how hard they try

cuz we humans naturally desire to be the protagonists

MathTans the Pun Prince

Good call.

cosmographia

so the narrative is purposely going "there they are...in the distance. Moving on."

MathTans the Pun Prince

We're also sometimes the antagonists.

cosmographia

they're not good, they're not bad, they're there.

yep!

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

Unfortunately, the scheduled Comic Tea Party is now complete~! Thank you everyone so much for joining this week’s chat~! That being said, if you would like to continue discussing the comic, we encourage you to do so~! We want to give a big thank you to cosmographia, as well, for volunteering Cosmic Fish for our reading queue. If you liked the comic, please be sure to support cosmographia’s efforts. If you have questions, concerns, or suggestions about CTP, please feel free to PM me, or e-mail me at rebelvampire@startfaire.com.

With that said, next week’s Comic Tea Party will focus on Final Light by BraveHeartTatsumaki. Please use this week to read as much of the comic as you would like. Hope to see you next Thursday (January 4th, 2018) from 5PM to 7PM PST~! Until then~! Comic: https://tapas.io/series/FinalLight