#but seriously i dont read any interviews or negativity or even follow what the actual actors are up to

[mmtions]

I love Buck and Eddie, I think there could have been so much potential with them two as a romantic pairing but honestly im losing hope. With the way the show has been going and the way Buck and Eddie have been written, individually and as a pair, do you really think there is still a realistic way to have them actually get together?? And i would love your opinion on this because you are an incredible writer yourself and ive been following your works from your Flash days

Hi anon! Thank you for messaging and for your kind words, and following since the Flash days! Guess we're both suckers for best friends in love, huh?

So if you're looking for more of a proof-based answer, @kitkatpancakestack talked more about some s5 choices that is very interesting and I think there's some amazing meta going around like @matan4il who I think has gone through like every 5b episode analysing.

Unfortunately, my answer is probably not the one you're looking for. Because it just... doesn't bother me if Buddie go canon or not?

So I'm putting the rest of this under read more to save other people's dash. And I should clarify that yes, I will be popping champagne like everyone at any and all 'canon' moments we get. I was screaming with the rest of y'all at Buck being in the room, and fixing the walls, and taking Eddie to the ranch. That's great content! That's fun! I love those goobers so much!! And I am also not saying I don't care about Buddie at all because, uh, my AO3 word count would disagree.

But what I mean by not caring is: what is canon and what is not does not affect my enjoyment, and I think it's a lot more fun to interact in fandom with that viewpoint.

Now, one caveat here is that I am a fandom elder (in my mid-twenties lmao). I've shipped a lot of ships, from canon to rarepairs to both-of-them-literally-died-in-canon (pour one out for the spn homies). I've shipped m/f, f/f, and m/m ships. I didn't get into Buddie because I thought they were a ship guaranteed to go canon. (I got into Buddie because this insanely gorgeous man was all over my dash apparently leaving whatever the 118 was and I needed to know more. Then I read some fic, and then I watched the show, and then I realised I was gone for about 8k into writing the PTA fic.)

I treat fandom like I treat literature. (No, I'm not saying they're the same, go away if you're about to quote classic greek at me.) What I mean by that is: the skill of literary analysis does not hinge on whether the curtains are blue. I don't give a damn what the author meant by choosing blue curtains. What matters is my skill in linking the blue of the curtains to a pattern or motif I've seen in the text, and my skill in explaining it to other people.

It's the same with fandom. I love the show - the found family, the humour, the characters, the drama - but when the episode ends, it's fanfictions and gifsets and fandom analysis I turn to. It's about the transformation. I mean, if I read one fic where it's Buck pining, or another where it's Eddie, or another where they're astronauts or cowboys or strippers or married in vegas or bake-off contestants, or they get together in the early hours of the morning or they get together after a harrowing emergency - one doesn't negate the other, you know? The skill is how the creators have transformed it. The gifmakers who made links between like, 1x04 and 5x17 and made it gorgeous to look at. Video creators, podfic makers, readers who comment and bookmark and make rec lists. Fanartists!! That's the fandom for me, and the show is the source from which we decide if the curtains are blue.

Now, truly I'm not saying this to condescend to you. I get where you're coming from, and I've been there. But I found that I take much more pleasure in my fandom experience by ignoring actors and interviews and twitter nonsense. If this is stressing you out (again, I have been there, I know it can be genuinely stressful when you care about these characters so much) you need to make a decision whether you're going to take a completely insulated approach (join me! who is ryan guzman? I don't know and now neither do you!) or you're going to lean into looking for proof in all the small moments. That's up to you.

Your fandom experience is yours to curate. If naysayers are stressing you out, block them. Read more fic, reblog more gifsets, spread more art! But I can't be the one to reassure you. If you're not enjoying the fandom, then - and I mean this with real love - take a step away.

If you think the curtains are blue, they're blue. If you wan to go out to bat to prove the curtains are blue, that's okay too, if you enjoy that! If you're constantly worrying that an executive producer is going to declare they're green, I would really recommend you come join the blue curtain club where we sew our own.

Canon is the source, and we choose what to take from it. And that's unfortunately all the reassurance I have for you, my love.

[unproduciblesmackdown]

augh i keep forgetting to mention.....like a few weeks ago i saw the vid also on twitter where charlie day was talking about how, i forget the names of the science guys, but how the fan reaction to interpreting them as a couple made him decide to play his character as if that were canon b/c he thought it was such a good interpretation and offered good depth/context......i doubt i’ll be able to see pacrim2 but seeing as how it would never have had that on the surface level anyways and nobodys said anything about it being canon and the way he was talking abt it made it seem like it was all in his own acting choices and not like existing in the script.....but still

for me ive been like.....periodically thinking about it this whole time b/c its like....so wild to see someone talk about the fan response / specifically address fans creations like fic/art n shit in a positive manner & to also like....speak of a noncanon gay coupling with a total lack of derision or even as though its something less serious than any other theories or analysis......... i am still just like so refreshed lol i didnt realize that a 40 sec interview segment would feel so significant that im still thinking on it weeks later

i mean especially as the difference in concepts of what cishet dude fans do as being something you can make into a movie w steven spielburg, whereas, as someone pointed out, a woman writing a lengthy self-insert reference-heavy series of crossovers.......gets a different reaction...........well anyways thats a whole other tangent

like things are better now for getting canon gay characters but thats only relative, its still not Good, despite straight ppl thinking homophobia is over so why should there be a romcom about positive experiences for a gay teen in THEIR movie theaters.......like its still wild to hear that even an actors personal take on his own performance is “yeah i was playing a gay character w a gay love interest” like. obviously we’re still never getting non-subtext material in the Big Movies. woo

plus im still remembering.....god....from like half a decade ago some panel abt sp/n where someone stands up and like even just begins to start a question about what-if canon bisexuality or smthing and is like just at once met w this scorn from like everyone else & cut off & even online ppl were like acting as if she was out of line or someone attacking ppl like some gotcha question or being inappropriate for asking ppl to even momentarily acknowledge even the concept of nonstraightness....plus on a show notorious for queerbaiting its fanbase so yknow another tangent there lord

and like im also still like thinking on this whole thing a little while ago where i’d had a handful of creators n shit who i followed on twitter & i just ended up like one by one unfollowing ppl or whatever coz everyone was talking about how bad it could be to get fan reactions or their investment in non-canon ideas. and like i realize that yeah everyone is aware that any huge general group of ppl is gonna have a lot of shit elements yet also Not All Fans and everything, and i also dont feel as if they shouldntve been talking about how they felt / what they thought about things or whatever, but like. i just increasingly freely block/unfollow/mute ppl or whatever just if i want to vs if i feel like its a good enough / serious reason....and it just honestly was like reading for weeks a was was essentially exclusive negative takes on fans not liking something......like i just was like yknow what just the way this is all being presented to me as so uniformly negative and me from the other side of the glass as its sprinkled across my tl like..........this just makes me feel bad so im just gonna unfollow a dozen or so ppl

like it made me feel bad back then and i still feel bad about it now, writing about how it felt bad....

also seeing as back in the day (like say ten yrs ago idk) when this stuff was even more universally looked down on, im still like part of me always tentative about stuff on my own blog if its not canon...........like forgetting that i dont have to have an element of shame even though who would give a shit..........like the concept of stuff reaching actors / creators and them being like “oh word actually thats sick” is still so foreign and especially w that twitter thing just adding to the assumption that the best you can hope for is to think it’d be found Tolerable or Only Mildly Abrasive And Irritating...psygh

anyways tldr im still thinking abt how nice it was to hear half a minute of charlie day talk seriously about considering fan’s takes on “this is / should be gay” as interesting and legitimate and presenting the whole concept respectfully...........

[larrydiary]

I’m a Larry shipper, right? Why am i disappointed at the fandom, after coming back to it... +What even is Larry? + How can we save the ship

I was going through tumblr and came across some posts by anti’s 

First of all I want to clarify that I DONT hate Eleanor, I actually used to stan her a bit. I had these blogs about her and made a page saying We ship happiness or something with Elounor as avatar. I follow her on all my social media. Even if people say she’s untalented. She graduated Uni plus has a good sense of fashion so eh let’s forget that “beard” stuff. Let me live!

So why do we ship Larry. You have multiple types:

The O.G’s: They have been here since the first 2 years, anywhere between x factor days and 2012. They saw how close H+L were and started shipping them, probably from videos like this:

Be it platonically or romantically, they just thought they were cute together and loved seeing them interact and mess around. Right now they have either moved on from it all or are still here, using past moments as ‘proof’ or just still love their relationship, be it platonically or romantically. A lot use old blog posts and videos as a way to convince the newer generation that Larry was and is something, they promote their friendship mainly . Again, not all of them make up theories and see every moment as proof. 

It is also quite obvious that since a lot of em are a bit older, that they ship Larry without being too annoying. That doesn’t count for everyone however...

New Gen. 2013-2015: These shippers either found out about 1D a bit later or just found out about Larry. They have watched countless proof videos and are convinced that H+L are together. By doing so much research they’ve learned a lot about Larry. They probably use the dug up moments and posts from the OG’s as a way to convince others that Larry is real or at least tell them about the ship.

1) So you have the shippers who DEFINITELY ship it and are 99.9% convinced it’s real and even when they start to doubt it they watch a lot of videos to re-convince themselves it’s real. They are often found analysing everything H+L do. 

1.5) Some even go so far as to hate on the GF’s, and sometimes they don’t even realise they are doing it. Traits: Call the GF’s names, try ‘their best’ to not disclose who they are talking about but do a terrible job at it (E.G “E is such a bitch, I don’t like her, neither do I like Br, ew!”), hate on the GF’s without reason (E.G. They see a picture of said GF and rant about how terrible they are, without good motives.), automatically dislike any woman who get’s associated with H or L, especially when the media reports they are rumoured to be dating. Even if it’s just an interviewer, a family member/friend, or a celebrity that H/L admire/look up to/respect/befriended. Ahem.

Apparently that is what people call, ‘a Larrie’.

2) You also have the shippers who mainly love their friendship. They’re okay with whatever as long as the two are happy and have a healthy friendship. They want them to interact more but don’t want to force the shipping thing. They don’t really research and dig a lot. They just admire and support from a distance.

They’re usually new to it, and chose not to fall into the rabbit-hole of Larry, maybe a friend introduced them to it, or just have other OTP’s and don’t really want to pay too much attention to Larry.

3) You have the people who are right in between. They would LOVE it if the two were together but aren’t mad at the fact they might just simply be friends. They like the concept of them dating, they might love Larry videos, make or love fanart, read or write fanfics. That in my opinion is the true definition of shipping, just loving the concept and idea of two people being together, having the opinion that they fit together. Nothing else! They want to think it’s real, but don’t force it. They always rethink what is proof and what is not. Always try to find a logical answer and are not afraid to deny said ‘proof’ but also on the other hand, try their best to convince others that there was something going on between them and possibly still is. E.G. they tell people stories about the past, show them footage, but do not want to force the people to believe it’s real. They don’t try to indoctrinate them. They just want to share the ship...

Aka the said friend of version 2.

It’s probably quite obvious i am that one^ 

So let’s see. People started shipping it cause they were always so close. And the others knew, they saw. They lowkey shipped it. The looks they gave the two, the “You two are so cute!” ~Niall, when Harry said his valentine was Louis. the ‘You two are together, aren’t you?” by Liam, the “When was the last time you kissed a girl?” ~int “When was the last time you liked it?” ~ Liam. Niall’s looks and smirks at the two. The boys teased them about it a lot and it was all fun!

There were even people who asked them if they were dating, and when Louis was going to propose to Harry. And did they mind? No! Because even if half of the people who shipped them were kind of convinced they were going out, the two still played along, made jokes about it and fed the shippers. They loved to see the shippers reaction, they chose to queer 1D, despite the rumours and jealous guys trying to hate on 1D, calling them stupid names.

Just a side note. watch this

Korean boybands can do this... why can’t Larry? And you know that Kpop management companies are a lot like Modest... Even worse sometimes, you know that South Korea isn’t nearly as open to the LGBT as the west. YET THEY GET AWAY WITH IT!!!

People wrote fanfics, made fanart, made compilation videos(Larry moments), it was okay!

But then stuff started changing. Even when Louis said he had a GF, the two were seen acting in a way that made it seem he did not have a GF at all, similar to how they were right when Louis’ relationship with Hannah ended. Sometimes even worse. People loved it! JOKING that GF was hired! But there were people who took it TOO FAR! They hated on the girl, sent her hate, tried to sabotage their relationship. Louis didn’t like it. 

Now to back paddle a bit. Yes it was quite obvious Harry did like Louis to an extent. And Louis didn’t mind. He was there for the boy. Cared for him like his little brother, as a best friend. People thought Louis was gay cause he was quite flamboyant, well what do you get after growing up with so many sisters? Plus, have you seen him when he was a teen? I used to follow him on Bebo. He had girlfriends, and they were real. Now, not saying they’re 100% straight either, chill down, people. 

I guess through the years, Louis actually started to like Harry too. Maybe? No? Okay! but there was definitely some man love going on, as H+L friend would say. More fuel for the shippers.

To that point it was okay. But to resume what I started to say about the GF. People turned into pricks! Even IF the GF was hired, which i don’t want to comment on, sending hate to her went too far. We don’t need that kind of negativity in our fandom. It broke us apart! It made us all less close... 

Fast forward a bit and we are in the “She’s my girlfriend, People genuinely think me and Harry are together!” era! The two started getting less close. Presumably because they caught on. Louis found out about the hate, obviously. He thought that minimising the touchiness with Harry would make things less complicated. But it made it worse cause people found out. By now you have two sides. The side which realised what they were doing and is even more convinced that GF is fake, cause ahaha why would he do that to his poor Hazza if Modest! didn’t tell him to? And the side who started to believe in Louis+GF more. By now you know I’m talking about Eleanor but yeah.

So you can either believe Modest was there from the start and hired Eleanor, (who had a friend who worked at Modest) Because Modest didn’t like the idea of two guys being in a relationship going public, having her be the muse, the lover, the topic of the songs, or that Modest started interfering when they found out about the rumours getting worse.

The latter can mean that Larry was nothing more than a Bromance (or a one sided love cause Harry liked Louis, it was mutual but they stayed friends for the benefit of... being friends. You almost can’t deny that and if you do then i guess it was just a theory) and when the rumours went overboard, Modest took action and told them to stop being so touchy feely.

Harry for example, only get’s rumoured to be dating someone,he get’s papped hanging around a girl and the second it gets out, new articles start to sprout out of nowhere, and whenever things do get “confirmed” they never end well or last as long as Elounor did.They are mostly high profile people. He’s been getting labeled as a womaniser since pretty much the start of their career. That somewhat correlated with Larry since the womaniser image got people to not believe in the HxL rumours too seriously.  

I made a rant about that in 2012 but it was super messy so i’m not going to go into that.

Either way, them being less close made people even more suspicious and to this day, even after them awkwardly denying rumours, even after Zayn saying it is not real. People believe they are together. Why? cause proof videos. I believe that if you are a true anti, you should at least dare to watch the 30 most iconic Larry moments, and if after all that you still stand by your opinion, then respect to you. 

There were far too many suspicious moments. Even if half of what they were trying to do was  a joke. You can not deny that they really loved each other. And something ruined it. 

The thing about their management company glaring at them or giving signs of approval whenever they do something wrong, or the thing about them giving signals not to answer a question is not made up. There is actual footage of them looking behind the camera and the interviewer saying they have to either stop an interview or saying they are not allowed to ask that. 

So why would the management company do such a thing when it is so obvious that the fans really like shipping the two boys?

The reason is because, even if the fans have no problem with it, others do. Outsiders do. A lot of celebrities don’t get permitted to come out. They have to act a certain way and get introduced to girls they have to date for a month or two, sometimes even years. With every generation you have a group of people who completely despise the concept of gay relationships. 

Now there are some groups and artists who’ve come out and are doing perfectly fine. But if you have as big as an audience as One Direction, things become more problematic. It is not only the fact that hundreds of girls who feel they have a chance with the boys or are raised not to approve of anything that has to do with the LGBTQ+ (so they grew up with homophobic parents) pretty much get a slap to the face. It’s that they will get so much attention that all the homophobic people in the world, potentially people who can influence a big group of people, will possibly start to hate on them, all these kids who are unfortunate enough to have closed minded parents will not be allowed to listen to the boys anymore. Their entire image will have a massive switch.

Now that they are solo, they have far more time to focus on themselves. Time to reshape and tweak their public image, time and space to show the world who they really are. They are breaking free from the bubble gum pop bubble. They are free to do whatever they want

When they first got put together, people started to say stuff like “One Direction is gay” Using ‘gay’ as an insult just to seem cool cause people thought that liking One Direction was shameful. Especially because of the often obnoxious fans. People simply did not want to be associated with them. But One Direction grew!

I don’t see them coming out any time soon. At this point i am not even sure if they are still together. Especially with the recent events regarding Louis.

I want to say that when Louis and Eleanor first started dating, it was quite awkward, but their relationship started looking realer as time passed by.  This time, it just does not at all. Not judging her, i love her. It’s just strange. She got back with someone who “cheated” on her and has a kid with someone else, you’d expect her to ask her boyfriend to do a paternity test. But that is their thing. They can do whatever they want.

Also regarding recent events. Harry seems to be so much more free. He’s swinging and waving around LGBT flags and is being more flamboyant than ever. 

Flashback to a couple of years ago when the boy said he liked girls, didn’t like nail polish or make up, and talked about girls. The boys kept mentioning he’s changed. They of all people would understand what exactly changed. 

Now about Louis.

That is just weird. Moving on.

I believe that we should all just chill and stop the negativity, I didn’t want to believe the misogyny until someone pointed it out to me, don’t get me wrong, i did see it before, but when I came back to this fandom I didn’t think it would be so much worse. 

Theories get annoying unless there is proof, in my opinion you can do whatever you like with them, as long as you are aware that your theory might be false/debunkable! 

You can ship it as much as you want but DON’T send hate to the GF’s, like, if you ship Larry, why waste time on them in the first place?

Maybe if we all stop commenting Larry on everything we see, maybe then they will come back as close as they were before. Cause it was quite prominent that Harry was saddened by it. They have good and bad memories from the ship. 

Just please guys, Larry is fun and i love it, but what I don’t like is all these “shippers” who point at Larry and management, everytime something happens between the two.

But I also don’t like people who attack the shippers, without listening to them first, stand in each others shoes, try to understand each other and why the other person thinks a certain way, step out of your own shoes for once ahaha. We’ll get to understand each other more that way. WE ALL HAVE TO HAVE AN OPEN MIND!!!

Louis said this:

“My main hope for the future is that we all remain best friends throughout everything. I would hate it if anything ‘affected?’ our friendships.”

Sadly something did happen, we have two years to fix things. Maybe i’m just crazy cause i miss the good old days. But let’s at least consider it.

Can we make a plan? Start shipping Larry the way we did in 2011. Just secretly. Let’s not go overboard and theorise everything. Even if it is just for a couple of months. Let’s focus on the friendship! Make them believe we have moved on and know it’s just friendship. I really want to focus on that the next couple of years. 

I call it the Larry Reset! Hopefully now there won’t be an article to come out which says “Larry shippers have moved on and have accepted that Larry was a Bromance. Want it back the way it was.” Actually tbh let that happen!

[mounicalucia-blog]

There has been such a tremendous response to my original post, “Your Spouse Wants a Divorce. You Want to Stay Married. Now What?” that I decided to do a follow up.

Someone asks me every day if I think there is hope for them and their marriage. Most of the time, I try to reassure them there IS hope, but I can tell they are skeptical.

So I interviewed two clients I just finished working with who agreed to let me publish their story. John came to my office alone 5 months ago. Marcy joined him about 8 weeks later. This is their story.

CONTACT US

Kim: “Hey Guys! Thanks for letting me share your experience.”

Marcy: “Thank you for giving us the chance to share it. I hope someone else gets encouragement from it.”

Kim: “Marcy, remember when you sat in my office and told me marriage counseling would be a waste of time? You made it very clear you didn’t want to be here.”

Marcy: “I do remember. If you told me 5 months ago that I would be here today giving this interview I would have thought you were crazy. But here I am!”

Kim: “Okay, don’t let me jump ahead of myself! John, can you tell everyone why you came to The Marriage Place?”

John: “Absolutely. I read your blog post When Your Spouse Wants a Divorce And You Don’t. That was my situation exactly. Marcy was getting ready to move out, and I was feeling desperate. You told me to breathe and stay calm. I remember you got us in quickly because I was so upset.”

Kim: “I remember.”

Marcy: “I did NOT want to be here. I came because I wanted you to help us get through a divorce and still parent our kids and at least not hate each other.”

Kim: “Yeah…didn’t work out that way though, did it?”

Marcy: “No! You said you would be the last person in the room still fighting for the marriage as long as one of us wanted to save it.

I was so angry with you then.

I was afraid you were giving John false hope. I told John later that you just wanted to take his money!”

Kim: “Oh! Wow!”

Marcy: “Yeah…sorry about that.”

Kim: “No worries. Can you explain to everyone why you were so convinced counseling wouldn’t work?”

Marcy: “John and I had been having problems for two to three years. I tried many times to tell him I didn’t think things were going well for us but he didn’t seem to pay attention. He would try to do some things differently for a while, but it wouldn’t be long before things were right back where they started.

I got tired of complaining and feeling like nothing was ever going to change. I threatened to leave him about a year ago and that got his attention.

We tried counseling but it didn’t work. The counselor was ok, but it felt like all we did was talk about all the problems.

We left most sessions feeling worse than when we went in. We did that for about three months before we quit. It just felt like a waste of time. Once we stopped, everything just went downhill. I told him I was moving out this last time, and he must have gotten online, because he read your blog and then asked me to come with him.

I agreed, but I didn’t want counseling. I truly believed it was hopeless and a complete waste of time. I felt no romantic feelings for John at all. I felt he was smothering me and I only wanted to get away from him.

So I told him I wasn’t coming back, and the next thing I know, he is coming by himself. I remember being irritated because I thought he was wasting time and money and I didn’t want to drag this out any longer.”

John: “Ouch! I don’t like hearing that but I know it’s true. I did all the exact wrong things before I read your blog.”

Kim: “I know but thankfully, you were a quick learner!”

John: “You told me to stop chasing Marcy–it was desperate and not very attractive. When you told me to stop telling her I loved her, I started wondering if you knew what you were talking about!”

Kim: “But you followed the plan”.

John: “I didn’t have a choice. I was about to lose the person I loved the most.”

Kim: “When did you start to notice that things were working?”

John: “Well…it was really small things at first. You told me to journal the experiments and keep track of all the results.

I did that. Some days were better than others.

But I kept coming here and kept working at it. You asked me to write down the first sign that I would see from Marcy that would tell me things were improving, and I wrote “She will sit in the same room with me for longer than 5 minutes.”

That sounds pathetic to me now, but things were so bad she left the room every time I entered it. When that first sign happened, you asked me for the next sign. Things just kept improving slowly a little at a time.”

Kim: “John, it may have felt like it was going slowly, but 8 weeks is pretty quick. Some people work that plan for months. Marcy, what did you experience when John started changing his behavior?”

Marcy: “It was weird. At first I wondered what he was up to. I knew he was coming here, but all he would say was that he was working on improving himself.

The first thing I remember noticing was that we weren’t fighting all the time. I remember one day I realized you (John) were about to come home from work, and for the first time in a long time…I wasn’t dreading it.

Then later, I realized I was actually looking forward to seeing you. I knew then that something drastic was happening but I didn’t understand it. I just stopped being in a hurry to leave.”

Kim: “Marcy, do you remember when you wanted to come to counseling?”

John: “I remember it! She asked me to have dinner with her, and I told her I had plans with some guys from work. I could tell it bothered her. The next day she asked to come with me to see you!”

Marcy: “He’s right. I wanted to see if we could enjoy a dinner out and it feel like old times. I remember thinking I had just a glimmer of hope that things could really get better. He hadn’t been home all that much and I actually was beginning to miss him!”

John: “It’s her (Kim’s) fault I wasn’t home much. She told me to get a life!”

Kim: “That’s right! I did!”

Marcy: “Well, it must have worked! We started coming together and things started moving quickly in the right direction.”

Kim: “Why do you think they moved quickly?”

Marcy: “I think there were several reasons. To begin with, you helped me see that I hadn’t fallen out of love with John–I was just focused on all the negative things about him I didn’t like.

I couldn’t see any hope because I couldn’t see past all the resentment and anger. We had been coming here a while before we even began to address any real problems. But that was ok because we had tried the other way before and that didn’t work.”

Kim: “You guys weren’t in a place to handle any more negative energy. It’s like a trauma patient coming into the ER who needs surgery but isn’t stable enough to survive the operation. You have to get the patient stabilized before you do surgery.”

John: “I know when we started counseling we had a long list of problems that we thought we needed help with. Once we got to that part of the counseling process, most of those problems weren’t an issue any longer.”

Kim: “I love it when that happens! I see it all the time! Getting couples reconnected emotionally is oftentimes enough to get things back on track.”

Marcy: “Seriously! Some days it seems surreal that we are where we are now. We can’t possibly express just how grateful we are that God brought you in our lives. I think PO2 is a special place.”

Kim: “Thanks Marcy. I really appreciate your kind words. But you guys did all the work. Just remember what you learned is not a once and done thing. You now have healthy habits in place that will keep you guys connected for as long as you do them. So DON’T STOP DOING THEM!”

John: “We won’t. I was a little hard-headed in the beginning about some of those exercises, but I’m a believer now.”

Kim: “You also know to come back every three months for this next year to avoid relapsing into old behaviors. You guys are awesome! Thanks for letting me work with you.”

Visit - https://themarriageplace.com/2013/10/when-your-spouse-wants-a-divorce-and-you-dont-part-2/

[anna-2807]

Someone asks me every day if I think there is hope for them and their marriage.  Most of the time, I try to reassure them there IS hope, but I can tell they are skeptical.

So I interviewed two clients I just finished working with who agreed to let me publish their story.  John came to my office alone 5 months ago.  Marcy joined him about 8 weeks later.  This is their story.

Kim: “Hey Guys!  Thanks for letting me share your experience.”

Marcy:  “Thank you for giving us the chance to share it.  I hope someone else gets encouragement from it.”

Kim:  “Marcy, remember when you sat in my office and told me marriage counseling would be a waste of time?  You made it very clear you didn’t want to be here.”

Marcy:  “I do remember.  If you told me 5 months ago that I would be here today giving this interview I would have thought you were crazy.  But here I am!”

Kim: “Okay, don’t let me jump ahead of myself!  John, can you tell everyone why you came to The Marriage Place?”

John: “Absolutely.  I read your blog post When Your Spouse Wants a Divorce And You Don’t.  That was my situation exactly. Marcy was getting ready to move out, and I was feeling desperate.  You told me to breathe and stay calm.  I remember you got us in quickly because I was so upset.”

Kim:  “I remember.”

Marcy: “I did NOT want to be here.  I came because I wanted you to help us get through a divorce and still parent our kids and at least not hate each other.”

Kim:  “Yeah…didn’t work out that way though, did it?”

Marcy:  “No!  You said you would be the last person in the room still fighting for the marriage as long as one of us wanted to save it.

I was so angry with you then.

I was afraid you were giving John false hope.  I told John later that you just wanted to take his money!”

Kim:  “Oh!  Wow!”

Marcy:  “Yeah…sorry about that.”

Kim:  “No worries. Can you explain to everyone why you were so convinced counseling wouldn’t work?”

Marcy:  “John and I had been having problems for two to three years.  I tried many times to tell him I didn’t think things were going well for us but he didn’t seem to pay attention.  He would try to do some things differently for a while, but it wouldn’t be long before things were right back where they started.

I got tired of complaining and feeling like nothing was ever going to change.  I threatened to leave him about a year ago and that got his attention.

We tried counseling but it didn’t work.  The counselor was ok, but it felt like all we did was talk about all the problems.

We left most sessions feeling worse than when we went in.  We did that for about three months before we quit.  It just felt like a waste of time.  Once we stopped, everything just went downhill.  I told him I was moving out this last time, and he must have gotten online, because he read your blog and then asked me to come with him.

I agreed, but I didn’t want counseling.  I truly believed it was hopeless and a complete waste of time.  I felt no romantic feelings for John at all.  I felt he was smothering me and I only wanted to get away from him.

So I told him I wasn’t coming back, and the next thing I know, he is coming by himself.  I remember being irritated because I thought he was wasting time and money and I didn’t want to drag this out any longer.”

John:  “Ouch!  I don’t like hearing that but I know it’s true.  I did all the exact wrong things before I read your blog.”

Kim:  “I know but thankfully, you were a quick learner!”

John:  “You told me to stop chasing Marcy–it was desperate and not very attractive.  When you told me to stop telling her I loved her, I started wondering if you knew what you were talking about!”

Kim:  “But you followed the plan”.

John:  “I didn’t have a choice.  I was about to lose the person I loved the most.”

Kim:  “When did you start to notice that things were working?”

John:  “Well…it was really small things at first.  You told me to journal the experiments and keep track of all the results.

I did that.  Some days were better than others.

But I kept coming here and kept working at it.  You asked me to write down the first sign that I would see from Marcy that would tell me things were improving, and I wrote “She will sit in the same room with me for longer than 5 minutes.”

That sounds pathetic to me now, but things were so bad she left the room every time I entered it.  When that first sign happened, you asked me for the next sign.  Things just kept improving slowly a little at a time.”

Kim:  “John, it may have felt like it was going slowly, but 8 weeks is pretty quick.  Some people work that plan for months. Marcy, what did you experience when John started changing his behavior?”

Marcy:  “It was weird.  At first I wondered what he was up to.  I knew he was coming here, but all he would say was that he was working on improving himself.

The first thing I remember noticing was that we weren’t fighting all the time.  I remember one day I realized you (John) were about to come home from work, and for the first time in a long time…I wasn’t dreading it.

Then later, I realized I was actually looking forward to seeing you.  I knew then that something drastic was happening but I didn’t understand it.  I just stopped being in a hurry to leave.”

Kim:  “Marcy, do you remember when you wanted to come to counseling?”

John:  “I remember it!  She asked me to have dinner with her, and I told her I had plans with some guys from work.  I could tell it bothered her.  The next day she asked to come with me to see you!”

Marcy:  “He’s right.  I wanted to see if we could enjoy a dinner out and it feel like old times.  I remember thinking I had just a glimmer of hope that things could really get better.  He hadn’t been home all that much and I actually was beginning to miss him!”

John:  “It’s her (Kim’s) fault I wasn’t home much.  She told me to get a life!”

Kim:  “That’s right!  I did!”

Marcy:  “Well, it must have worked!  We started coming together and things started moving quickly in the right direction.”

Kim:  “Why do you think they moved quickly?”

Marcy:  “I think there were several reasons.  To begin with, you helped me see that I hadn’t fallen out of love with John–I was just focused on all the negative things about him I didn’t like.

I couldn’t see any hope because I couldn’t see past all the resentment and anger.  We had been coming here a while before we even began to address any real problems.  But that was ok because we had tried the other way before and that didn’t work.”

Kim:  “You guys weren’t in a place to handle any more negative energy.  It’s like a trauma patient coming into the ER who needs surgery but isn’t stable enough to survive the operation.  You have to get the patient stabilized before you do surgery.”

John: “I know when we started counseling we had a long list of problems that we thought we needed help with.  Once we got to that part of the counseling process, most of those problems weren’t an issue any longer.”

Kim:  “I love it when that happens!  I see it all the time!  Getting couples reconnected emotionally is oftentimes enough to get things back on track.”

Marcy:  “Seriously!  Some days it seems surreal that we are where we are now.  We can’t possibly express just how grateful we are that God brought you in our lives.  I think PO2 is a special place.”

Kim:  “Thanks Marcy.  I really appreciate your kind words.  But you guys did all the work.  Just remember what you learned is not a once and done thing.  You now have healthy habits in place that will keep you guys connected for as long as you do them.  So DON’T STOP DOING THEM!”

John:  “We won’t.  I was a little hard-headed in the beginning about some of those exercises, but I’m a believer now.”

Kim:  “You also know to come back every three months for this next year to avoid relapsing into old behaviors.  You guys are awesome!  Thanks for letting me work with you.”

Read more at https://themarriageplace.com/2013/10/when-your-spouse-wants-a-divorce-and-you-dont-part-2/