#but like. you wanna manipulate tucker into being a villain?

[leonardalphachurch]

you really could kick off tuckers villain arc by telling him that wash was the one who killed church, huh.

[phantoms-lair]

This just came to me as I saw Tucker mentioned in Hero's Spirit. If you want to answer, how and what would you rewrite to give him a proper arc in DP and a main character in his own right?

The short answer is allowing him character growth. There is no fundamental difference between Episode 1 Tucker and Episode 42 (We do not discuss Phantom Planet).

Look at What You Want and King Tuck. They're basically the same episode. Tucker feels underappreciated, gets power, and goes mad with it. If he had truly grown after What You Want, King Tuck would never have happened.

In 13 Tuck was experimenting with his identity after the 'Bad Luck Tuck' thing. And it would have been nice so see him examine and find out for himself who he is outside of the technology.

Also another character trait is his continuing to bomb at asking girls out, but never learning why. That's it's not that he's a nerd but that his first reaction to a girl is hitting on her is...not great. At all.

(cut because this got long)

So I'd start with What You Want with Tucker being faced with his own jealous and the solid proof that if given the same powers as Danny, he'd be far less responsible with them. That's humbling and causes him to have to look into himself. And while I know openly talking about emotions is anathema to fourteen years old, talking to Danny about why he felt so jealous would be a good first step.

In 13 when he tries some new identities he doesn't like them, but does start asking himself who he is outside his tech. He starts trying to find other interests. Maybe he discovers while he can't carry a tune in a bucket, he does enjoy music and combines his two passions into making techno remixes with some moderate success.

At some point he vents about not being able to get a date and Sam and/or Jazz point out that of course he can't - he's made no effort to hide that he doesn't care about the girls he asks as more than someone to aim his libido at. Like, you're walking around with a checklist of girls to ask out, my dude.

So by the time we enter season two we have a more self actualized Tucker. He's found more things he's good at that he enjoys and he's finding himself outside of Danny's ectoplasmic shadow. He's starting to repair his relationship with the girls in Casper High.

And at this point Tuckers about ready to have some nemesis of his own. I can see Tenchus moving to become more his villain than Danny's, and maybe a musical rivalry with Ember, matching her singing against his techno. And his biggest enemy - himself.

This is not a philosophical battle. This is Tucker Foley vs Tucker Phantom. Remember, Danny didn't undo the wish. He used the catcher to separate Tucker from his ghosts self and trapped it. Tucker was doing the evil self in a thermos way before Dan Plasmius was introduced (I'm just...going with that name for now).

Also, as I've mentioned in a different post, here's where I'd want him to get his werewolf girlfriend, who he'd meet at a rib-eating contest. She acts as a good partner for him and possible Danny admitting he's a little jealous of Tuck since he has trouble with getting relationships to works given his double life.

When King Tuck happens, Tucker is in a much better place. Being more open with his feelings about being left out means Sam and Danny are listening to him more. He's still having trouble with the election, but he's not feeling as totally ignored. When it's revealed he's the reincarnation of Duul Aman, it's not a shortcut to power. It responsibility. Suddenly Tuck can alter reality and that's a big thing. He's kind of where Episode 1 Danny is, trying to figure out what he's going to do with a change in abilities. But there's no enslaving his class in a fit of rage. Tucker ends up winning the election, not by out popularing Dash, but by manipulating him. Point out how much work he'd be expected to do as class president, and that it would probably cut into his football time. Dash drops out of the election, leaving Tucker the winner.

With Hotep Ra at his side, Tucker starts to lean into a leadership position, not just for his class, but Team Phantom. He's never been the most fond of being physically active (Micro Management) but he has a strong analytical ability that he discovers he can use help predict and strategize battles.

And so we reach the finale, we have Tucker, no longer an insecure technogeek and wanna be lothario, but the class president and leader of Team Phantom, with a girlfriend who supports him and shares his interests. He happy, self assured, and perfectly capable of stepping up to ghost attacks without needing Danny's help. But he always has Danny's help and Danny always has his, because no matter their differences, they're best friends, brothers at heart, and above all, equals.

[rahleeyah]

Same anon as before. I’m mainly just pissed I think because, after El left, everything magically went great for him, good money, his marriage is suddenly perfect. All the while they put Liv though f-ing hell, yes she has Noah now but she was put through so much again and again and still is. While they gave El a perfect life in Rome.

And now instead of making sure Liv is okay after finding out about Simon he goes and sets up a date with Angela because he has “deep feelings”...why do they keep doing this? And after dropping and I love you to Liv last episode... Also the dinner scene that was teased a ton got cut.

I would love to find out down the track that Elliot's life in Rome wasn't as rosy as they make it out to be. I think they did that as a way to sharpen his initial grief at losing Kathy, like giving them a fairytale life somehow makes it even harder to bear losing her. But you're absolutely right, compared to everything Liv has been thru...shit ain't right. And I want, more than anything, for her to tell Elliot that. He needs to know!!! When he first finds out about Simon he is clearly shaken and he is earnest when he says I'm sorry to Liv but they're on the job and she doesn't really give them a chance to linger in that moment. That was not the time to address it. But god, when will the time come???? OC is his show and so Liv is only there as an extension of him really, but that's so frustrating bc SVU has been avoiding the issue of her feelings wrt to him and OC isn't gonna dig into her pain. but we need it!! Please!!!

I really do think what's happening with Elliot makes sense from the standpoint of his grief/confusion. Like. Something like this happens, sometimes people kinda...lose it. He is spiralling. He is searching for comfort. He is chasing something, he just doesn't know what it is. He gets shot at, he fights with Liv, he sees that Liv doubts him now in a way she hasn't before, Bell tells him to choose someone else to move on with, Angela is beautiful and smart and interesting and understands his grief and doesn't judge it for and crucially she isn't trying to make him a better man. He doesn't have to work on himself with her, he doesn't have to face his feelings; it is dangerous and not healthy and he does step back from her bc he realizes it's not a good idea at all.

Yes, ok, they agreed to go to dinner, but she really manipulated the hell out of that man bc he went there to tell her no more and by the time she was finished with him she had him agreeing to going out - but going dutch. Like that matters, Elliot. if she really is the villain, she got him right where are wants him lmao

I really, really think we're approaching a tipping point with this. I'm not sold on whether or not Angela actually is responsible (I really hope she is BC THAT WOULD BE FASCINATING if she was the mastermind all along) where Elliot is gonna get a handle on his toxic behavior. He's lashing out, bouncing from one thing to the next, but he is also in some ways starting to settle. He's starting to see a way out. He's starting to worry about people other than himself.

Listen he didn't have to pull Liv's chair out for her. He didn't have to hold her hand. The whole thing with them being shot at really just seems like an excuse to let him cover her and then protect her with IAB. They keep making these very deliberate choices and I still feel like it's building to something. They've got time to let this all unfold.

I do wanna know what the diner scene was lmao it reminds me of the "are you in love with detective stabler" line in Philadelphia being edited between the promos and airing. And I haaaaaate that, I would rather no teaser at all than a teaser for something we're never gonna get.

They have all the elements here - the letter, the I love you, all those references to Tucker, Simon - to do something really, really compelling before these epis are done. Will they? We'll see. I feel confident that by the time this ends nothing will be certain; gotta have something for next season. I also feel fairly confident Angela won't be in s2 of OC; the case is amping up and they're on a timeline to get it wrapped up now, and I think I read somewhere that if OC gets picked up each season will be centered on a different case, so he'd move on from Wheatley. And maybe they'd keep Angela around but it feels more likely they'd do a full change up and we won't see her again.

Shit, maybe she'll die.

Just gotta wait and see fam.

[darknessfactor]

This is mostly being written because I need to get my own thoughts down about this now, not because I particularly want to get into the Discourse (because I know it exists, and I don’t want to go near it).  Basically, I’m rewatching FMA 2003 and FMAB, and I’m going to talk through my preferences.

I’ll admit that this is my first time watching 03 all the way through.  I got through a little more than half of it in high school, then got bored (ironically right before things started getting good), and tried watching Brotherhood instead.  I did manage to make it all the way through that one.

Having watched both now, I still prefer Brotherhood.  And yes, this is a comparison post.  Untagged, except for my own reference tags.  Like I said: I’m writing this for me.

This list might get long, so if you’ve decided to go ahead and read it anyway, then prepare yourself.  I’ll start with character comparisons, in no particular order.

Roy Mustang: Brotherhood wins by a landslide.  Although 03 does a slightly better job at portraying Roy’s PTSD from the Ishval conflict, I also saw much less of a desire to atone for what he had done.  In Brotherhood, Roy specifically said that he wanted to help rebuild Ishval, and Riza admitted that he planned to allow himself and other state alchemists to be put on trial for their crimes.  In 03, I think that the desire to atone is there, but it is muted, and he seems far more smarmy and power-hungry.  His manipulation of the Elrics is also much more blatant.

Scar: Which leads me to Scar.  Honestly?  This one’s a tie for me.  I liked his ending in Brotherhood more.  I felt he was more threatening in Brotherhood.  I prefer his voice actor in Brotherhood.  However, Brotherhood did one thing that I really, really wish they hadn’t - and that was shift the blame for Winry’s parents from Roy to Scar.  Suddenly it wasn’t alright to root for Scar, because not only had he killed the state alchemists responsible for his people, but he also killed innocent civilians.  Personally, I feel for Scar - he had every reason to believe that his people would never get justice for what had been done to them, so he took matters into his own hands.  Brotherhood was just trying to pull a ‘killing is ALWAYS bad’ thing.

The kids: No, I don’t mean the Elric brothers.  I’m talking about 03′s Wrath and Brotherhood’s Pride.  This time, Brotherhood wins again.  I felt like 03 had the opportunity to go somewhere more meaningful and emotional with Wrath, but instead they just turned him into a psycho (which... considering what he’d been through, it didn’t really surprise me).  Brotherhood’s Pride, however, was almost always a creepy asshole - apart from when Selim acted endearing.  His reveal freaks me out to this day, and to this day he honestly terrifies me.  I do find it somewhat ironic that both Wrath and Pride tried to take Ed’s body for themselves, in the end.

Main villain: Gotta give 03 credit: Dante wins by another landslide.  While both she and Father are fairly one-dimensional, her reveal - as well as her plan - is a lot more insidious, not to mention creepy as hell.  I cringed (in a good way) almost every time she was on screen, and her theme song is AMAZING.  The only time when I really got a ‘what the fuck’ vibe from Father was when he’d half-absorbed Hohenheim just before the country-wide transmutation circle was activated.  For the most part, he was pretty par for the course as far as villains go.  

Bradley: Brotherhood, again.  Much more threatening, much more terrifying.  What happened to Lan Fan, to this day, remains an “oh SHIT” moment for me.  Though personally, I think his death should’ve been more brutal.

Sloth: 03, again.  Really, the only good or interesting thing about Brotherhood’s Sloth was the Armstrong sibling/Curtis teamup to take him down.  03′s Sloth is a hell of a lot more interesting.

Greed: I was kind of surprised by how much I liked 03′s Greed by the time he died.  His arc felt more complete than the arc of the first Greed in Brotherhood.  Still, I’m a sucker for body-sharing tropes, and I love the part that the second Greed played.  So Brotherhood wins this one, though not quite by a landslide.

Characters unique to each series: Brotherhood.  I can’t really think of FMA without thinking of Ling, Lan Fan, Mei, Olivier, or Miles.  Dante is a fantastic villain, and 03′s Sloth and Wrath are interesting characters as well, but Frank Archer almost seems like a Kimblee wanna-be, and I couldn’t give two shits about him.  Ling’s arc might be one of my favorites in Brotherhood, and I can’t not adore Lan Fan and Olivier.  

Riza: Brotherhood, though not by much.  There aren’t too many differences between 03 and Brotherhood Riza, except that Brotherhood went far more in-depth on her character and backstory.  Hell, they devoted an entire episode to it, and though I wasn’t too big of a fan of her learning a lesson from freaking Kimblee, I still appreciate her expanded content.

Worldbuilding: Brotherhood, again.  Brotherhood always felt more... like an actual world, whereas everything in 03 felt sort of... isolated.  In 03 we know nothing about the surrounding areas, and... I don’t know, I just never feel like there are people, anywhere.  I like that Liore got more focus in 03, but overall I prefer Brotherhood - for going more into history, for establishing more of the setting.  (I know it would’ve been tougher for 03′s writers to do such, and I give them credit for writing such a compelling story with what they had.)

Music: Brotherhood.  Oh my god, Brotherhood wins so hard for this.  Dante’s theme is the only one that stuck out to me in 03, but Brotherhood?  I have the names of so many of those tracks memorized.  The Intrepid.  Knives and Shadows.  Trisha’s Lullaby.  I get chills whenever I hear any one of these songs.  

Found family theme: This is something that’s prevalent in both series.  Hell, in 03 Armstrong even says it outright after Ed and Al visit Resembool.  It’s never quite stated outright in Brotherhood, and yet I felt like it carried through more strongly in Brotherhood.

In 03, Ed and Al meet and help plenty of people along their journey, but those people don’t really seem to have an impact on them (except maybe Nina Tucker).  I got the sense that, in spite of that, they were still fairly isolated from everyone else; the Elrics against the world.  They have each other in our world after CoS, but it’s just the two of them.  Against the world.  Again.

In Brotherhood, all those people they meet, and help?  It’s very clear that those bonds are still there.  Just look at the family photo in the credits: look at how many people are in it, even if you count out significant others and the Elrics themselves and their kids.  Paninya and Garfield being there just goes to show that there are so many people that the Elrics could easily consider family, in spite of the lack of blood relations.  Ling, Lan Fan, Mustang, Hawkeye, the Rockbells, all the chimeras that Kimblee brought up to Briggs, Izumi, Sig... in the end, in Brotherhood, it was clear that the Elrics had accepted that they couldn’t get as far as they did without these people’s love and support, and I just love that so much.

Story: Brotherhood’s story just seemed more exciting to me.  That’s all there is to it.  I’m a bit of a sucker for political conspiracies, and this screamed ‘political conspiracy’ a lot more than 03.  Also, though I can appreciate the nuance behind 03′s ending, I’ve always been a sucker for happy endings, and Brotherhood’s was definitely happier.

...well, I think these are about all the thoughts I have on this matter.  If I didn’t mention characters, it’s because I think it was a tie for those characters.  I will say for 03: I’m amazed at how its quality improved over time.  The animation and voice acting get remarkably better over time.  Still, Brotherhood is the one that’ll always be closer to my heart.