#but like. guys lets be real. the writers actively made specific writing choices for his character
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hmm i definitely agree that mike wouldn’t necessarily be a horrible irredeemable character if he was never queer and had feelings for will and regardless of his sexuality i’ll never really hate him...but a lot of his actions would end up being senseless writing choices if he was straight. like do i think its realistic to portray a kid making mistakes in his interpersonal relationships and how he deals with growing up? yes. but do i still think him simply undergoing puberty (even if he was straight) is enough to explain why he looked confused when his gf kissed him and said she loved him back, or why he never hugged will in the airport and looked pissed when he saw his boy best friend holding a painting he seemingly made for a girl, or why he needed someone else’s feelings to be able to say ily to his gf? huge no. idk i just wish people stopped talking about him like he’s a real person and not a fictional character with writers behind his every move and motivation in the show 🤷♀️
#like yes people should look at his character more realistically#by keeping in mind that he’s a 14 year old teen and shouldn't be crucified for his flaws#but like. guys lets be real. the writers actively made specific writing choices for his character#cause they serve a purpose in the narrative and not just for realism’s sake 😭 this is a fictional story after all#byler
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@mirrorfalls submitted: Came across this while searching for James Bond’s scrambled-eggs recipe (long story). Your thoughts?
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But did you find James Bond’s scrambled eggs recipe?
In this article, Scocca laments his inability to find accessible, lighthearted superhero comics suitable to read with his young son, while also demonstrating a mysterious aversion to looking at DC and Marvel’s lines of comics for children, which is where the accessible, lighthearted superhero comics suitable for reading with young children are. He wants his elementary schooler to be able to safely have the run of all superhero media so he doesn’t have to touch the yucky baby books.
This is not an industry-wide crisis. This is just one dude who got paid to write an article where he accidentally exposed one of his personal hangups.
The child headed toward the trade paperbacks of Marvel and D.C. superhero titles on the side wall […] a few steps in front of me. […] Is he with you? a clerk asked me. I said he was. You know, the clerk said, we have a kids’ section. The clerk gestured backward, at a few shelves near the entrance. I said, Thanks, we know and tried throwing in a little shrug, as the kid kept going.
You can’t just turn a seven-year-old child loose in a comic-book store to look at the superhero comic books. […] My seven-year-old really wanted to see that last Avengers movie […] that is, he wished it were a movie he could see, but he understood that it was, instead, a movie designed to scare and sadden him—a movie actively hostile to people like him.
They have a children’s section. Because comics are a medium suitable for stories for everybody, and they are sold in comic book shops, which have sections, like bookstores. You can use this organization to find books that you know in advance are suitable for children. What goes in that category is determined by industry professionals. This area will be bigger the bigger the shop is. These comics are not lower quality that titles from the main lines. They are actually slightly better-written on average.
Your local comic book shop has considerately wrapped Empowered in a plastic bag, so your child will not be drawn in by a colorful superhero and accidentally read a graphic scene. If you think your kid might find a memoir about internment camps upsetting, it is your job to notice them picking up They Called Us Enemy and read the blurb on the back before you let them have it. This comic adults are meant to read is in a comic book shop because that is where comics are sold. Not every public place is supposed to be Disneyland.
Movies have ratings systems. If you do not want your child to watch a PG-13 movie, you will find that most superhero cartoons are for children. They are about the same characters. Some are quite good! I really enjoyed Earth’s Mightiest Heroes. Your child may like Avengers Assemble. At least I think that’s right. I’m always mixing those titles around.
This is a deeply weird bias for Scocca to casually demonstrate, because he identifies in the article that real childishness is striving for empty maturity.
He compares an old comic,
[…]a 1966 Spider-Man comic in which Spider-Man meets, fights, and defeats the Rhino; participates in a running argument between John Jameson and J. Jonah Jameson about his heroism; buys a motorcycle; breaks up with his first girlfriend, Betty Brant; flirts with Gwen Stacy; and reluctantly agrees to let Aunt May take him to meet her friend Mrs. Watson’s niece, Mary Jane.
and a new comic,
[…]a 21st century comic book in which Thor, brooding in a Katrina-destroyed New Orleans, beats up Iron Man. He also yells at Iron Man a lot about some incomprehensibly convoluted set of grievances, including involuntary cloning, that he believes Iron Man perpetrated against him while he was dead(?), and then summons some other Norse god from the beyond somehow for reasons having something to do with real estate. I think. Where the 1966 comic is zippy and fun and complete, the whole contemporary one is muddled and lugubrious and seems to constitute a tiny piece of a seemingly endless plot arc—simultaneously apocalyptic and inert.
and concludes that the edgier comic is actually less mature. This is true. (This is not news about mediocre comics.)
It also has nothing to do with either comic being child-friendly, the article’s nominal thesis, except in the sense that ASM #41 (yes, I eyeballed that from that summary, yes I am just showing off now) is better written, making it more everyone-friendly. It also has practically more space dedicated to word balloons than art and is about a college student juggling girl problems and a part-time job with a tyrannical boss. But the immature one, as Scocca points out, is dour.
These are both teenagery issues, separated only by quality. It’s true that lots of new comics published by the big 2 are bad in the specific way Scocca describes here, taking themselves too seriously and hauled down by associated stories instead of buoyed by them. Some are not! Some titles from these companies’ main continuities are zippy, contained, and child friendly. Give your child The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl! Or if you like vintage comics so much better, why don’t you…buy some?
The books on the kid’s rack are good and fun and totally suitable for parents to read with their children without wanting to scoop their eyeballs out. Scocca cites the Batman ‘66 comics as the brightly colored, tightly written all ages solution to his problem about sharing superhero stories with his son. My local comic shop stores this title in the kid’s section. I am glad that Scocca’s does not, as he seems to have a peculiar aversion to looking for comics to read with his son there.
Scocca cites Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse as a superhero movie he could watch with his kids. (I was surprised when this line made it sound like he has several. I don’t want to assume the other one isn’t in this article because they’re a girl, but I very much am assuming that.) Great! Go to the kid’s section and look for Marvel Adventures: Spider-Man. It’s a fun, zippy title directly inspired by ITSV where Miles, Gwen, and Peter superhero together. It’s much more tightly written than most of the various Spider-Verse comics, which are ambitiously messy ubercrossovers. You may not want to give those to children because they include murder and so on, but also you just have the choice between the two as an adult reader deciding how much continuity you want to deal with. Adventures is one of the only titles I would buy on sight before corona. The kid comic rack is a reliable place to take a break from How Comics Get Sometimes regardless of how old you are.
This article makes me feel quarrelsome. Maybe it’s that it doesn’t seem like exploration of a single idea so much as a loosely grouped bundle of things to kvetch about. Maybe it’s that the experience of getting into superheroes that Scocca describes experiencing, projects his seven-year-old son will experience, and from which he extrapolates a metaphorical microcosm of the history of the genre is completely alien to me.
Comic books [and] comic-book movies—are […] trapped in their imagined audience’s own awful passage from childhood to adolescence. A seven-year-old has a clean […] appreciation of superheroes. They like hero comics because the comics have heroes: bold, strong, vividly colored good guys to fight off the bad guys and make the world safe.
But seven-year-olds stop being seven. […] They become 13-year-olds, defensively trying to learn how to develop tastes about tastes.
The 13-year-old wants many things from comics, but the overarching one is that they want to prove that they’re not some seven-year-old baby anymore. They want gloomy heroes, miserable heroes, heroes who would make a seven-year-old feel bad. (Also boobs. They want boobs.)
Not because of the boobs line, although that does illicit an eyeroll that this gloomy thinkpiece is fretting over preserving the superhero experience of little boys who resemble the little boy the writer was while casually dismissing everyone else. I was one of those unlikable little seven-year-olds with a college reading level and the impression that maintaining it was the crux of my worth. I only read Books - distinguished media you could club someone with. I have a formative memory of pausing, enraptured, in front of a poster for Spider-Man 3, preparing to say that it looked pretty cool, and being beaten to the punch by my mother making a disparaging comment about how the movie was trash. It wasn’t out yet, but it was a superhero movie. That meant it was for loud, brainless children.
That was the total of my childhood experience with superheroes, excluding being the unwilling audience to incessant renditions of “Jingle Bells, Batman Smells” that left me wondering why in god’s name Batman’s sidekick was named Robin. I certainly never visited a comic book shop. I got into TvTropes, which got me into webcomics, which got me following David Willis, who got me into Ask Chris at ComicsAlliance, which led to me rewarding myself for studying like a demon for the AP tests with three volumes of Waid’s Daredevil, pitched as a return to the character being colorful and swashbuckling. I was seven…teen.
This is of the same thread as Scocca’s point that immaturity is running from childish things. It leaves me baffled that he doesn’t follow that maturity is embracing them.
I will disclose here that while I think it was dumb I had to overcome my upbringing’s deeply embedded shame associated with enjoying arbitrarily defined lowbrow media and children being childish, I think it’s fine that I was allowed largely unchecked access to technically age-inappropriate content. In my limited experience, content small children are too young for is also content they’re too young to understand, so it kind of just bounces off of them, and what actually ends up terrorizing them is unpredictable collages of impressions that strike out at them from content deemed perfectly child-friendly. I would not forbid a seven-year-old I was in charge of from seeing an MCU movie unless I had a reason to believe that specific child would not take it well. These are emotionally low-stakes bubblegum films. It will probably be easier to socialize with other kids if they have seen them.
But then, when I picture being in charge of a hypothetical child, I usually imagine this being the case because they are related to me, and the pupal stage in my family strongly resembles Wednesday Addams. ALL children love death and violence, though, right?? This isn’t a joke point. I know it looks like a joke point.
The MCU thing seems especially weird in light of the article’s particular focus on Spider-Man, which is the kiddie line of the MCU, even if they refused to waver from their usual formula enough to get a lower rating. Though I am more inclined to describe it as “preying on the young” than “child-friendly”.
(MCU movies are increasingly dubious propaganda, but I would not judge them in front of a child who wanted to watch them for that reason, just in case this led to them partaking of them without me the second they were old enough to and then they grew up to run a blog about them while our relationship suffered because they didn’t feel like it was safe to talk to me about their interests…Mom.)
I tried to overcome the philosophy of letting anyone read anything while compiling this handful of mostly-newish superhero recs for the road that anyone can read. (Handily, I have been in spitting distance of being hired as a comic shop clerk enough to have thought about it before):
For actual children:
Marvel Adventures Spider-Man (the new one is reminiscent of ITSV, the old one is more like 616) any DC/Archie crossover, Archie’s Superteens The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl (for bookish children who think they’re too good for comics and adults afraid of the kid’s section) Teen Titans Go (even if you hate the show) Superman Smashes the Klan
For teens:
Ms. Marvel Young Avengers (volume 2) Unbelievable Gwenpool Batman: Gotham Adventures Teen Titans Go (the tie-in comic based off the old show was also called this)
Here are a bunch of relevant C. S. Lewis quotes.
#me every time i read a comic book article by a rag not exclusively about comic books: i know more than you.#marvel#spidey#DCU#MCU critical#mirrorfalls#asks answered#submission#unearthed this and bashed it out in one sitting ... i have not been working on it since you sent it last year XD
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As a writer with an inclination to write their own Homestuck fanfiction, how did you figure out the world and larger events happening in the world of godfeels? (such as Epigone, or the EWL) Like how did it travel from Homestuck fanfiction into a complicated Homestuck based universe?
the single sentence explainer for how we got here is simple: i’m a dialectical materialist at heart. mild apologies right out the gate here, this answer is a real winding journey that (as per usual for these things when they become essays) might not even answer your question at all! also, i use June’s deadname a fair bit in this post just to avoid confusion as to when in her life i’m referring to, so if that’s the sort of thing that troubles you, be warned. anyway, let’s go ahead and dive in after the break:
the tonal/generic character of any fiction begins at its conception. imagine you invite a wide array of writers to reimagine or continue homestuck in any way they liked; what would a writer who loves homestuck produce, vs a writer who hates homestuck, vs a writer who thinks they can fix it, vs a writer who’s only interested in one character, vs a writer who’s only interested in themes, vs a writer who’s only interested in the lore? probably safe to say they’d all produce wildly different fics. so before we even get to the specific content of the work in question, we can already guess how the shape of a narrative might naturally flow out from the material conditions of its artist’s perspective.
this is (as you’ll certainly agree if you���ve read the chapter 8 epilogue) rather a theme in godfeels.
so, to the material conditions of my perspective: i wrote gf1 because i felt something deeply, compellingly tragic about a young definitely cisgender man with extreme depression and self-isolation issues possessing arguably the most existentially nightmarish superpower imaginable. everything godfeels is starts at this philosophical quagmire, which for me was always focalized around John and Jade, the two characters i related to the most. where John has this tremendous power and is terrified of using it, Jade has tremendous power but is actively prevented from using it in the ways she wants to. there’s an assertion by John in gf1 that the “cost” of his deal with Typheus was in fact Jade’s near-total isolation during the three year trip, which he tried to make up for but never could, and imo that’s where aaaaaaaaaaaaaall the shit 3.1 would become really has its roots. it suggests how a person with infinite power can be rendered powerless by circumstance and yet still bear the burden of their choices, and how systems compel lateral violence for the sake of their own perpetuation. that is to say, sburb (by way of Typheus) forced John to rob Jade of her agency in order to ensure the birth of a new universe, yet still he blames himself for what felt to him like a choice he made. is he wrong? i don’t know. it’s impossible to know, honestly, which is what makes it such a compelling philosophical question. you can’t put this thought to bed, because even as we all know that There Is No Ethical Consumption Under Capitalism, we also have to believe that there’s more that we could be doing, and if there’s more we could be doing then why aren’t we doing it? you chase yourself in circles trying to puzzle these things out, and the more you think about them the more they eat away at you.
it’s a pretty rote observation at this point that what makes superheroes interesting is their limitations, but i think we tend to simplify the worldbuilding possibilities of that observation down to “everyone with superpowers has to have a kryptonite.” that is to say, we’re taught that fictional strength is only as interesting as its equal & opposite weakness, as if physical power can only be compelling in fiction if it has a direct, linearly nullifying antithesis. this sucks because it just encourages everyone to write superheroes whose biggest problem is that some guy has a special gun, encourages stories exclusively focused on superheroes tracking down guys with special guns and putting them in forever jail so that the superheroes can do literally anything they want with no oversight, which is fine because naturally people in that position of power have to earn that power and would simply choose to not be evil. THIS IS EVERY MARVEL MOVIE AND I’M SICK OF IT. what interests me about homestuck as a universe is that these characters, by the end, largely have no outside limitations, no kryptonite, no guys with special guns. Dave doesn’t stop using time travel because it’s, like, bathing him in deadly radiation or whatever, he stops using time travel because it’s fucking scary and weird having to watch yourself die all the time! in homestuck, the limitations on our heroes are primarily internal, relating more to psychological and philosophical hangups than anything. the question in homestuck is rarely “if i became an all-powerful god, who would stop me?” but rather far more often “if i became an all-powerful god, would i still enjoy being alive?” selfhood is SUCH a fixation of homestuck, i think you could argue that every major plotbeat in the story is a result of someone desperately flailing for purchase beneath the crushing weight of their existential insignificance. what i found interesting about John after the homestuck credits was the thought of him having regrets about choices he made in the past, knowing he could go back and try to fix them, and (mostly) choosing not to. knowing at every turn that he could choose to live his life like a groundhog day scenario, effectively perfecting the personal lives of everyone in his orbit, and almost certainly face zero consequences for it.
the consequence that stops him is internal- the consequence of knowing that he would have given up all of his humanity for the sake of a reality he has decided to puppeteer, based on no authority other than a power he did nothing to earn and has no right to possess.
gf1 was not written with continuation in mind. gf2 was started without the intention of continuation- what i wanted initially was for each of the three parts to focus on these personal philosophical issues. how do you process your own anger and disappointment at being let down by people you trust when you can literally murder them and then unmurder them without consequence. just knowing that’s possible and not doing it would already fuck up your brain- imagine what’d happen if you actually did it! this, of course, kinda became the central question of gf2 once Dirk showed up and decided to make a mess of things. it was only in the latter stages of 2.2 that i started thinking about this cast in parallel with the epilogues, which eventually pays off in Jane’s reveal of Dirk’s unfinished ship and the Rosebot in his basement. I didn’t intend this at the time, but i should have known the instant i canonized godfeels as an offshoot of the epilogues timeline that the existential weight of that would drive me insane enough to eventually write three novels worth of prose in as many months.
but there’s one specific hypothetical thread with gf2 that always haunted me. see, my plan at the start was for June’s coming out to go poorly, which would lead her to decide that she was The Bad June and that the only way to give herself a happy life would be to retcon to her childhood and convince her preteen self that he was actually a she. but alongside this, i wanted June to take Jade with her- because again, June feels tremendous guilt over her sister’s narratively imposed loneliness and sees it as this thing she always wishes she could fix. so she would bring Jade back with her and say basically, you can go keep yourself company for a while, or find someone to be your friend. then we’d spend a lot of time rummaging over the melodrama of that, and end with June ultimately deciding not to forcefem her past self, while Jade does choose to retcon something in her own life, which would have a similar effect as the eventual Silverbark reveal in that she’d dramatically kick someone’s door down and announce herself as New And Improved Jade just in time to save the day in some sense.
obviously, elements of this made it into gf2. i’ve talked before about how the “should i retcon my gender” question ultimately turned out a lot less compelling than i expected it to be. it’s an interesting thought but when you dig down to it, especially with the mechanics of retcon as i understand them, you realize it’s kind of a pointless choice narratively because our June wouldn’t be able to experience the end result of that retcon anyway. the only reason she was able to return to the main narrative post-retcon in homestuck proper was because she replaced an apparently identical version of herself who was killed by Typheus to make room for her. what’s June gonna do, kill the version of herself who got to be a girl her whole life and take her place? i know my writing skews towards edgy sometimes but i’m not mark millar for christs sake, i do actually have standards
so, okay, let’s bring this damn thing to some kind of a point shall we?
i lay out all this shit at such length because, well, your question is a question i ask myself quite often! how the hell did we get here, anyway??? how do you get from “i have depression and i think i might be trans” to “all sentient life in the omniverse will be annihilated in a war between ideaspace and bodyspace started by Jade’s secret lost daughter”??????
but i think if you were to read gf1 and the ch8 epilogue back to back, you’d see that we really haven’t come very far at all. it STILL surprises me just how easily it all wound up slotting together- i didn’t even consult gf1 while writing the epilogue until the third draft! i think it worked out this way because the core motivation for writing this series has always been philosophical. VV’s metaphysical roadblocks to interacting with canon are just the literalized material implications of June’s existential dread at standing outside the omniverse and witnessing its paradoxical infinity. the earth being split in two and the collective cast subsequently scattered to the winds may in the moment feel like a wild leap from the relatively down-to-earth stakes of gf2-- well, no, see, i actually already disagree with this framing. i’ve joked for a long time that the progression from gf1 to gf3 is what happens when a slice of life story becomes a space opera, but that was before i really, truly understood what gf3 wanted to eventually become. now that 3.1 is conclusively finished, though, i see that the narrative trappings are merely the aesthetic window dressing of a story that really has not changed all that much from its starting point except in scope. if there has been any major thematic alteration, it’s simply in taking questions that were previously limited mostly to June’s perspective and applying them to the entire cast. so in that way, yes, the shape of the narrative has changed-- but has it? really?? because gf2 was supposed to be a story about self-actualization, but that got hijacked by a guy who wanted June to remain static and unchanged so he could use her as a weapon. gf3 was also supposed to be a story about self-actualization, and it also got hijacked by a guy who wanted June to remain static and unchanged so that it could use her as a weapon.
and gf1 was the story of someone who felt guilty for trying to compel someone else’s self-actualization instead of working on her own.
part of how we got here as well has to do with my own political evolution. i always wanted to see how June might try to build a better world, but every time she did, she got immediately sidetracked by some Plot Bullshit. it led to a lot of cool stuff, but it also frustrated me to no end! by the time we hit the moon war in 3.1, i was genuinely pulling out my own hair over the hole i’d dug myself into. i’d wanted the moon war to be kind of a parody of the boring “end of an avengers movie” style mob invasion, but instead i just sorta... wound up doing one? chapter 8, actually, was already a long-in-production logistical nightmare for me waaaaay before i’d had a single thought about ideaspace. maybe ch8 blew up the way it did in part because it allowed me to correct course and find something in the morass that genuinely compelled me. i was so stubbornly dedicated to the idea of keeping a lid on as much of Jade’s side of the story as possible, to relegate 3.1 exclusively to June’s psychodrama as the metatextual war of attrition that the audience must endure in order to get to what i thought of as The Good Stuff. but all that that really accomplished in the text, i think, was to ferry June around from existential quandary to existential quandary until the plot deigned to finally happen to her. don’t get me wrong here, i’m extremely proud of 3.1 and i don’t think it could have wound up being what it was if it hadn’t come about the way it did- once again, i’ll remind you i’m a materialist.
but that’s just it, you see? the story’s problem was my problem was our problem. June has these moments of wanting to listen to what The People have to say, of wanting to improve society somewhat, and i always INTENDED that to become one of the central pillars of this story. how can you interrogate power without spending time with those subject to that power? and on the flip side, in the gf3 prologue we see how Jade helped striking workers and fought space cops etc etc, and yet there’s a distinct unease in the accumulation of those stories, at least for me. why is this the route Jade takes? how did she get from that, and from her overall cutesy bubbly demeanor, to the cold hardened high-ranking member of what sure seems to be a cosmic private military corporation that we’ve come to know? there’s something Troubling there, just as there’s something Troubling in June’s consistent status as a plot object. they’ve almost swapped places in a way, don’t you think?
in examining these Troubles, i realized that the unifying factor was me trying to find ways for an individual to make the world a better place. having just lived through the good and the bad of CHAZ first hand (that’s the capitol hill autonomous zone btw, a political occupation that occurred here in seattle through june 2020), i knew very well that all the most impactful actions happen at the behest of organized comrades acting in solidarity with one another. this is a huge motivation behind godfeels becoming a full-cast production, because i don’t see the political dimension of this story as separate from any of its other dimensions. that is to say, just because this is a homestuck fanfic doesn’t mean i get to set my convictions aside and half-ass some uplifting gobbledygook that has no relationship with the world we live in today. i’m a materialist, damn it! the philosophy, the politics, the romance, the action, the dialogue, the formal experimentation, the character diversity, the ever-increasing scope, all of it flows out naturally from the selfsame kernel of thought which compelled its creation in the first place.
which, uh. well. here’s something andrew hussie said on formspring that i’ve found myself thinking about a lot:
“i think writing in voice is pretty simple. its mostly about consistency. choosing a set of parameters and committing to them absolutely. it can even be a shitty set of parameters and a crappy character. but if you keep hammering away at that voice, people will say, damn thats some pretty good characterization there! i mean... they might be WRONG. but theyll SAY it.
the advantage in being so obstinate with the profile you choose is then any deviation you make will be very noticeable. this is to your advantage, if you can control these deviations with purpose and precision. such deviations can serve as the pillars for character development. they cant happen without the consistency first. and ironically, without the consistency, they DO happen. for the wrong reasons. because you fucked up.
syntax is not a typical part of voice in most works but its one ive latched onto aggressively in HS and perhaps solidifies the illusion of strong voice. in fact ive become so conscious of syntax-voice, i noticed for some reason when answering these questions ive gravitated towards an ad hoc syntax, no caps, no apostrophes, otherwise punctuated. i am fearful of deviating from it. because it will mess with your heads if i do. and mine.
See, look. Instant syntax upgrade. It's hard to believe this is even the same person talking!
Inconsistency can be one of great calling cards of utter trash. Glorious inconsistency, artful inconsistency even, I think is something to behold. It's like a window into a defective mind. These are principles I employ in SBaHJ. They interest me for some reason. Will this sentence end with a period? No, looks like it won't. But this one will. Why was that particular word misspelled? Why not just misspell every word? That would make no statement. It would invite no speculation into a uniquely defective thought process.”
where godfeels is a homestuck fanfic, it’s in my wholesale adoption of andrew’s syntax and repetition/deviation. where godfeels is a “homestuck-based universe” as you put it, i think it’s in how i’ve taken these largely mechanical concepts and applied them to philosophy and metaphysics. which, christ, what a thing to say! clearly this answer has gone on too long because i’ve been whittling away at it for like a month now and feel no closer to unearthing the true answer.
i think it’s just a matter of knowing what your seed is. why are you writing this story? what’s compelling about it? what questions does it make you ask, what emotions does it make you feel? if you can, as an artist, have some sense of what drives you to create the very thing you’re creating, then you always have a compass handy when you need to decide what route to take. if you have that compass, you can blow up a slice of life story into a space opera and make it feel natural in your sleep. you have to be honest with yourself and egolessly introspect on your own proclivities. ask yourself what you believe as a person, and ask yourself if your story lives up to those beliefs. for me, at least, a story truly becomes itself when i can hold its soul in my mind and let it guide me. a story becomes itself when it knows that you know what it is, and you trust each other to do the work as it needs to be done. maybe that sounds daunting and alienating especially if you’re just interested in writing fluff fic or whatever, but i think the same thing applies. ideas exist in space, after all, and that includes silly ones! if you know that soul and respect it, i certainly find that it frees me up to bring all kinds of wild shit into the fold because it all exists along the same ideological axis for me, because i as a person am just like this about absolutely everything.
i don’t know why this turned into writing advice at the end. i hate giving writing advice. don’t listen to me, i’m literally a goat
#godfeels#homestuck#writing process#andrew hussie#philosophy#fanfiction#existential dread#june eg8ert#silverbark#jade harley#sarahposts
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re: that ask you posted a couple days ago about the male and female representation in RWBY, part of what makes RWBY's whole 'girl power' thing ring exceptionally hollow to me is the fact that there are like... no women in positions of real power in remnant. like at all. except the big bad.
winter is second in command to james. glynda is second in command to ozpin. all of the headmasters are men (for no discernible reason, imo; why theodore and not dorothea?). the leader of the ace ops was a white man (and then winter seemed to take over clover's position instead of either of the women of color on the team, and she was still second to james). RWBY is an all girl team, but JNPR was led by a boy despite a girl arguably being far more qualified (pyrrha). the happy huntresses are all women, and robyn had no real power to speak of--she didn't even manage to win the election, because jacques rigged it, and then the council ceased to matter. there was one (1) woman on the council, but she was so inconsequential that i can't even remember her name. (i suppose we're lucky it was the guy and not her who james shot lol) jacques controls the SDC instead of willow, even though he's not even a schnee by blood and actually married into the family for power. (and we don't even know how he got it over his wife.)
and then there's the white fang, which ghira led and not kali--and it's ghira who leads menagerie itself, while kali seems to be a housewife. sienna had five minutes of screentime before being brutally killed and her position assumed by adam, a man. cordovin is basically a one off lackey we haven't even thought about before or since. neo was second to roman. you have cinder, sure, who is a second but to salem, a woman, and raven as the leader of the branwen tribe--but what does it really say about your 'girl power' narrative when the only women with genuine systemic power in your world are villains or antagonists with massive bodycounts??
atla has the same sort of problem--a couple great female characters, but all the leadership positions are men (except the kyoshi warriors, an all girls group, and even then the leader of their island is an old man) and the one female mentor figure also turns out to be evil--but it at least has some great writing to help overlook that fact, and it came out in the mid-00's and so has some sort of excuse of being a product of its time. but rwby didn't even start until 2013 and it's still going and still making these kinds of decisions well into 2021.
where is this supposed girl power, exactly? am i really supposed to overlook the very patriarchal worldbuilding just because the title characters are girls?
That's an excellent summary of the situation, anon, and as with so much in RWBY, it comes down to the full context. Any one of these examples isn't necessarily going to mean much on its own. It's when you look at the pattern that you can start making a case for those conclusions: Why is the show marketed on "girl power" set in a world where men hold the vast majority of that power? And, more importantly, why is that setup not the point? We could easily have a story where that lopsided gender dynamic is the problem that the girls are looking to fix, but... that story doesn't exist. Like the problems discussed with Jaune, the supposed point here exists only on the surface. Dig just the tinniest bit — the above — and you hit on a lot of structural problems with this "girl power" world.
To add just a few details to what you've already said:
Salem indeed has power, but she's never allowed to fully use it. Each volume the frustration with this grows as Salem accumulates more abilities and then just sits on them. From literally hiding out for a thousand years to worries that she won't use the Staff in Volumes 9-10, Salem really isn't allowed to be the threat she's presented as on the surface. And yes, this is absolutely due in part to the "She's too OP and the writers don't know how to let her be that powerful while still having the heroes win" issue, but again, context. That problem doesn't exclude others occurring simultaneously.
Same double explanation with Summer. Yes, dead moms are an incredibly common trauma to dump on a protagonist, but it still left Yang and Ruby with Tai as their primary influence. And Qrow. The uncle becomes the extended family influence while Raven is the absent one/eventual antagonist. It's personal power as opposed to political power, but Tai, Qrow, Ozpin, formerly James... most of the mentors are men. Maria, a key exception, has been ignored in that regard. The story announced that she was Qrow's inspiration, setup her being Ruby's new mentor, and then... nothing. Nothing has come of that. She disappeared for a volume and then went off to Amity and was literally forgotten by the story when evacuating everyone was the finale's whole point.
Like that Endgame moment I mentioned, the Happy Huntresses feel a little too forced to me. Yes, it's the same basic idea as in ATLA, but ATLA, as you say, has a lot more going for it. The Happy Huntresses feel... on the nose? Idk exactly how to explain it. Like, "Here they are! Another team of all women! Isn't this how progressive storytelling works? Just ignore how this is a one-off team of minor characters compared to the world building issues discussed above." And if you're not paying attention, you miss just how insignificant they are, with a side of Robyn being, well, Robyn. The Kyoshi Warriors, at least, are based off of Kyoshi. A woman avatar who is a significant part of their history. That is, presumably, why they're an all women warrior group (but who notably still teach Sokka). The Happy Huntresses are all huntresses because...? There's no reason except that meta "We want to look progressive" explanation. Just like having all the women superheroes team up for a hot second so people get excited and ignore the representation problems across, what? 21 films? Don't get me wrong, I love that May is among the Happy Huntresses. I think including her in the explicitly all-women group was one of the better things RWBY has done in a long time, but the rest is still a mess.
RWBY is arguably about these smaller groups as opposed to systematic power (despite the writers trying to work that in with things like the White Fang and the election. Not to mention the implication that everything in Atlas is fine now that evil Ironwood has died and taken the symbol of wealth (the city) with him. We saw a human holding hands with a faunus after all. Racism and corruption solved, I guess.) So yes, our group is dominated by women... but Whitley is the one saving Nora, helping to defeat the Hound (plus Willow), thinking of the airships, and providing the blueprints they need to escape. Salem is our Big Bad, except Ironwood is the one the volume focuses on. Ruby is our leader, but Jaune is the one leading the group into the whale and getting praised for how heroic he is. Ren does more to shake things up, even if he's painted as the one in the wrong. Oscar gets to confront Salem and destroys the whale threat. Ozpin provides the information they need to evacuate. Meanwhile, when the girls do things in Volume 8 it's almost always followed by a long-stint of passiveness. Nora opens the door so she can be unconscious for most of the volume. Penny keeps Amity up so she can also be unconscious for a good chunk of time. Ruby sends her message and then sits in a mansion. Blake fights so she can tearfully beg Ruby to save her. Weiss, as said, takes a backseat to Whitley (and Klein). They forward the plot, absolutely, but comparatively it doesn't feel like enough.
It's that pattern then, no one specific example. More and more the personal power, not just the systematic power already built into Remnant, seems to be coming from the men. Not all the time, but enough that scenes like the tea drinking moment feel like a part of a much larger problem. Pietro taking control, Watts hacking, and Ambrosius literally remaking her when Penny is supposed to already be in control of herself and her fate. Winter being presented as the active mentor to Weiss, only to turn around and claim that Ironwood was actually responsible for everything. Ruby, Weiss, Blake, and May straight up commenting on how awful things are out there while Yang, Jaune, Ren, and Oscar lead the charge against Salem — with the latter three doing the most to forward that mission (no fear, semblance, cane). As others have only half-joked, Yang's supposedly badass moment was bringing up a mother she's ignored for six volumes and briefly blowing up the immortal woman for a couple of seconds (with Ironwood's bombs). Even Marrow is arguably the most significant Ace Op after Clover. Vine isn't actually a character, Elm slightly less so, Harriet is there to go crazy and try to drop a bomb (notably before admitting to never-before-existed feelings for Clover), but Marrow? He's the one who breaks out. Who is meant to heroically stand up against Ironwood. Who comments on how awful it is that teenagers are fighting and, regardless of how messed up the moral messages are, is supposedly pushing for active change while all the women in his group, including Winter, insist on maintaining the status quo. Look at all these choices as a whole, it makes throwaway worldbuilding choices like "All the Maidens are women" feel pretty hollow. Why does it matter if Amber is a Maiden if she dies in a flashback so Ozpin can struggle to pass on the power? If Pyrrha dies before becoming one so Jaune can angst about it? If Raven is one and then disappears from the story entirely? If Winter has enough power to break Ironwood's aura, but supposedly had no power throughout every other choice she made getting here? If Penny is one, but is continually controlled by men and then asks another man to help her die? It's just really unconvincing, once you look past the surface excitement of a woman looking cool with magic powers.
When you do consider the whole of the story — both in terms of our world building and who is forwarding the plot in the latter volumes, getting the emotional focus, being proactive, etc. — there are a lot of problems that undermine the presumed message RT wants to write. They say, "girl power" by marketing RWBY with these four women, but too many of the storytelling decisions thoroughly undermine that, revealing what's likely a deeply ingrained, subconscious bias.
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Voyager and Romance
So, the thing about Voyager and romance that sticks with me is they seem to do one couple really, or more accurately two characters, any real justice overall. And that is B’Elanna and Tom. While moments for that relationship may not be perfect that is rather realistic for relationships, as no relationship is perfect all the time so that is tolerable. This post though isn’t going to be about looking at that particular relationship though but primarily at other relationships. Largely because a discord server I am in was talking about Counterpoint and I realized why I both love the episode but also have weird feelings with it. Which, I’ll touch more on that specifically after I discuss the relationship stuff (as that plays a part).
So, I will preface this with it has been a bit since I’ve done a binge of Voyager and really a full binge of Star Trek in general. As such, I may forget a few relationships on the show and overall, throughout Trek in general. From what I can really toss together … I honestly am beginning to believe that when it comes to Voyager and the other shows (the older ones not the new ones – I am not including any NEW Trek in this) that for some reason the relationship writing with Voyager was rather different. Like, they gave 3 characters active relationships prior to being stranded. That being Harry Kim, Kathryn Janeway, and Tuvok. Out of these three we get Janeway and Tuvok holding onto those relationships in their own way while … it seemed mildly convenient for Harry to mention it when it suited him, I guess (like that time Tom wanted to set them up for a double date or you know when he ended up in that alternate timeline but still wanted back with Voyager even more like). Like, the reason I don’t list Tuvok-T’Pel above is because we don’t actually get to SEE that in full, we just get to see Tuvok’s side of it and his dedication – we don’t see the relationship, we don’t see the couple.
Harry and Tom, prior to his relationship with B’Elanna, seem to frequently do this sort of two bros dating around thing which is fine but like … same time the show used them for that. And once they settled Tom with B’Elanna they used Harry in those plot lines when it worked. Thus the alien STD episode and the “how dare you not get the standard permission from your CO and CMO” line (like they really put that into a Trek ep and I’m still unable to not picture Riker, Kirk, Picard, and everyone other Trek character constantly getting permission for their latest romance – just remember Jadzia and Worf likely had to get permission from Sisko and Bashir if the Trill and Klingon weren’t already approved of in the system just saying, that’s a thing that happened). Anyways … my point is they went out of their way on this. Like, when Kes was with Neelix they wrote Neelix to be that jealous judgmental boyfriend who literally got upset she knew where other people’s quarters where, she was nice to Tom, she was … just yeah. They wrote Tom to come off as a player pulling Harry into it, when Tom settled down Harry seems to pick that up (I mean you got his “omg Seven” phase and the alien STD stuff and lord knows what else I’m forgetting with him).
And to top this off I haven’t even touched on the “Janeway can’t have a romance” stuff yet. Which is where my real problem is. Like, its bad enough they brought in Jeri for the sex appeal (which lets be honest stems from the fact they couldn’t use Janeway for that – which I get, Kate was right in the whole concept of the audience target having to keep respect for a female lead and sex appeal couldn’t be a focal point but they could have balanced it right and regrettably because they couldn’t that meant Jeri got all of the other side of the coin). Many of Seven’s eps center on romance or social stuff and honestly that is a whole other WTF post in its own right because it all leads up to the sudden get with the one person on the ship who didn’t want you here in the first place and who also would have served better as the male adult guidance figure/father figure than as a ROMANTIC partner but hey BS happened behind scenes to cause that chaotic romantic on screen set up. But yeah … this is just another example of the poor Voyager romantic plot lines.
Chakotay’s romantic plot lines are usually – and by that, I mean pretty much always – with these strong independent women. But usually, at least from what I recall, they are also typically the “needs help” (damsel in distress/can’t do it alone/etc.) plot. Like, Riley was strong independent but also set up to need help in regard to getting her little collective put back together on the planet. You got Kellin, again another strong lady who yet again also needed help. At least in the ep she’s in and if I recall much of the info on how they fell in love during that time as well – primarily with getting away from danger at the start and then during the initial romance finding her target. Valerie is the only one who doesn’t fall into the needs help plot and that’s largely because she was being manipulated by Chakotay for information – which honestly just goes to show how well Chakotay was at the whole undercover stuff (which tells us a lot about what he could have been doing as a Maquis). Seska was the plot point of “you once dated her, now she is going to badger you to get with her again and when that fails, she’s going to assault you” …. like all of Chakotay’s romances are literally him either 1) being manipulated (as that’s what Seska and Riley did) or 2) being the kind guy or 3) not an actual relationship (either because its undercover work or because the writers were too cowardly to make him and Janeway canon).
Then you got Janeway. Then you got KATHRYN JANEWAY. You know, the one where Kate Mulgrew said no romance, no sexualizing, no doing that sort of stuff because the audience had to maintain respect for the character. I’m sure someone has the exact various quotes out there. Like … this is why we don’t have JC as canon. But what we do got instead is …. Janeway in Prime Factors being flirted with by the administrator as if that’s going to get him what he wants because “female leader means flirt with her”. We got Janeway and a period drama holodeck adventure in the early years which was clearly meant to be her romantic tête-à-tête early on that never got followed up with. We got “delete the wife” with the Fair Haven plot point (because its totally respectable to see the FEMALE LEAD, the STARFLEET CAPTAIN, just straight up DELETE THE WIFE of another individual - yeah, I get its meant to be humor factor because hologram but come on). You have her whole thing with Mark which we get tidbits off but again similar to Tuvok we literally only get to see her side of it – the only couple moment of theirs we get is the comm call in Caretaker.
But Jaffen? You are correct. We got that lovely and touching and wonderful romance with Jaffen …. Oh wait … they had to remove her from the ship, strip her of her memory, and her autonomy in order for her to have a relationship with another individual. And yes, by losing her memories, by losing what made her who she was as a person, she did lose a sense of autonomy. She entered into a relationship without a full sense of independent choice. The point in which she made a choice in that episode, the point in which she – Kathryn Janeway – made a choice with all of the person, the individual she is, was at the end when she had her memories back and could decide based on the values and beliefs and all that she is. What I’m getting at is the people on that planet deliberately took away who she was, they took her memories and her ability to make the decisions they knew she would make --- they did that deliberately (that’s even established in the episode) --- and as such her decisions while in that state are not truly her full independent decisions but the ones impacted by the state she was forced into.
And while I love Resolutions, while I love all the JC goodies, we get in that ep … Yet again the only time we get to see Janeway in any sort of romantic situation is when they remove her from the ship. When they remove her from command. When they strip her of that setting. This time, though – well the first time – she keeps awareness and has to go through lose of it all in order to even start to let it all happen. I love the episode, I do, but I just find it rather amusing they went “’Hey we gotta strand them what should their tasks be on the planet?” and they immediately went “Well Janeway is scientist how about that” “Okay and he can build, Chakotay can start building. Man builds house, right?” and then like went “oh and then she can start a garden” …. Like really? Really? That’s what you got for me. Oh, and then there is the monkey. That’s the romance this ep. Boat, science, monkey.
Then we got Kashyk. We have dealt with Kathryn throughout this series dealing with various leaders of various styles. As mentioned, Prime Factors guy attempted flirting. Other leaders pulled similar or worse or even dismissed her …. Like the list goes on. Counterpoint is a great episode because it deals with prejudice and is rather dark. The thing is, had Janeway been able to have a healthy romantic relationship on screen to counter this episode this episode probably would have come off better. Episodes like Prime Factor could have been done different (that leader didn’t need to be as flirty for example). One or two eps through the series having creepy dudes she had to deal with, fine, whatever … that be a nice impact for the audience. But when you have to many prior to Counterpoint – even if its minor, small stuff – it makes this episode so much harder for fans. Especially the female fans who deal with this constantly.
See, here’s the thing with this ep…. Some of the fans who watch … we know Kashyk well. We know that character. He is that male leader, that male power figure, who uses the power he has to manipulate those in his control to get what he wants. And Kathryn … Kathryn was in his control. Kashyk is listed as a relationship on memory-alpha. But much like how I view Seska with Chakotay … I do not view Kashyk as a proper relationship. In Devore space, Kathryn did not have proper power. She had people in her command, on her ship, that she had to protect. That she knew she had to protect. Her own best friend … lives in her hand … and Kashyk right there willing to kill them. Willing to snatch them up and destroy them. And he used that power to manipulate her and play her. Yes, she played him right back but … did she truly have a choice? Did she have any other choice but to play his game? What would have happened if she said no? And that … that is why this episode is so unsettling for some people. And why this relationship being considered on is so off putting … that the writers, that memory-alpha, that the fact I’m putting it on this list as one of the ones on here for Voyager says so much … they wrote this as one of her relationships while out there … she had to do what so many women had to do to stay safe, to keep people she loves safe, and that’s not a relationship.
Voyager could have done romance/relationships such better justice.
#star trek#star trek voyager#i had some feelings about things#primarily the Kashyk thing#but that lead to other things#and honestly i am really begining to question romance in voyager#but also like overall in Trek in general#like the more i think about Voyager the more im like oh god they really did seem to fail there#because the only valid couple i can think of is Tom and B'Elanna
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could u elaborate what was so bad about the barbarians? i saw the show and thought it was ok but i don't have enough knowledge to know what are the ideological implications of it? sorry, just really curious and wanna learn more
*takes a deep breath* oh boy, where to even begin? Thanks for your question as I might finally get this off my chest! Okay, fair’s fair, anyone who likes the show should look away now because I’m not going to mince words. And I want to reiterate that there were things about the show that I liked, mostly on a superficial aesthetical level. Generally you could tell from the get-go though that the writers are hacks who know nothing about history or good storytelling for that matter. I could’ve dealt with a show that was historically inaccurate if only the character drama had been written well. I might also have enjoyed the show more if the character drama had been mediocre but if there had been a sense of historical authenticity (not accuracy, mind; but still something tangibly more substantial than the patina they tried to throw onto their frankly embarrassingly lowbrow attempt by having parts of the dialogue translated into Latin by an expert and by hiring a good crew for the costume and props design - of the Romans at least... putting lipstick on a pig and all that, although pigs are great and the writing here is not).
Since you asked about the ideological implications specifically, I’ll start with that and work my way towards other criticisms (this is going to be LONG):
19th century nationalism: The story of Arminius and his merry band of brothers who defy the big bad Roman empire is a narrative that became especially popular in Germany in the 18th and 19th century, both with liberal patriotic movements that were advocating for the unification of the “German cultural nation” in a modern nation state (spurred by the Wars of Liberation against Napoléon Bonaparte and French occupation) and later with the völkisch movements where that nationalism segued into the pseudo-scientific racial ‘theories’ of a ‘superior German race’ which in turn was part of the ideological foundation of the genocides and atrocities committed by Germany in the 20th century (not only in WWII, see also the colonial genocide of the Herero in 1904). We cannot disentangle this predominantly racist reception history that re-invented Arminius (”Hermann der Cherusker” - “Hermann the Cheruscan” - or, indeed “Hermann the German” ha!) as the founding myth of a German people from the way this story has been depicted in media, entertainment and culture and, as evidenced by Barbarians, continues to be to this day.
Barbarians pays lip service to the fact that actually there was no German people at the time by having the tribes meet at the Ting in the first episode and have someone outright state it. These kinds of tidbits literally voiced by characters give off a strong whiff of the authors googling something, reading something on Wikipedia, and then putting it in there. I’m sorry (actually not sorry) to come down harsh on this but given what we’re talking about here, that’s just not good enough. It’s an embarrassing level of “writing”. The authors clearly have NO idea what they’re talking about or what they’re dealing with because despite their lip services, they actively reproduce the harmful narratives that were spun around this actual historical event and these actual historical figures in the 19th century. No effort was made to depict anything complex or realistic here. Case in point: Even though there’s a pretense that the tribes aren’t part of the same people, they don’t look much different from each other, they all speak the same kind of modern high German that sounds like they’re at a costume party in the year of our lord 2020 (and in the case of Folkwin, drugged out of their mind; he sounds like a guy who’d throw beer cans at passersby). They come across as basically just being separated by the few acres between their villages. And then when the big bad evil Roman empire wants to squash their resistance (Asterix did it better change my mind challenge), freedom fighter Arminius rallies them together with a heroic speech and they charge at the Romans RAAHWWHR! ... no, just no.
There would have been SO MANY ways to reframe and retell this story in a fresh, new, and exciting way that would have made for amazing character drama. The premise is so good. If we were to look at the basics of what is known, there are so many personal AND political complexities in there that just beg to be coloured in with a little imagination. I just... I don’t even know where to begin to fix the choices that the show did go with since most of them don’t make any sense, don’t contribute anything to the narrative and are just. there. Have y’all noticed that there is ZERO dramatic tension in any of the scenes? Like, what? How?? Culture clash, divided loyalties, identity issues, the way that a militaristic upbringing might warp the mind, feelings of home and belonging and displacement, the return of the lost son, the betrayal of a high-ranking officer, just, there are so many themes that the show could have focused on but it botches all of them, nothing of it feels real, earned, or logical. Characters behave in idiotic ways for the sake of the plot (I wanted to like Thusnelda, I really did, I’m always here for female characters but she was so painfully obviously written by 3 dudes who thought that feminism = praying to the good sisters of the forest and slashing your face aöldksfaökdjf plus the actress could not sell any of it, she sounded ridic).
I’m exhausted just thinking about the many ways in which the writing on the show sucked. Impaired character used as a symbol~ for other characters instead of being a character on his own? Check. Weird mystical shit? Check. Earthbound tribal people who are one with nature? Check. Death on the cross to get that Christian imagery in there? Check. Lack of female characters except feisty!badass!Thusnelda, scheming!conniving!pulling-the-strings!wife, weird!mystical!seer? Check. Varus doing a Herod by demanding first-borns to up the Christian persecuted ante? Check. (All he was missing was the mustache to twirl. Was he even a character? He looked vaguely concerned and sceptical. That was his character.)
Look, the actor Arminius was great but even he couldn’t make sense of any of it. The character work was so shoddy, it was shocking. One minute he’s still all-in with the Romans, ordering lashes for “German” mercenaries without being very conflicted about it, reminiscing with fellow Roman soldiers about the good old times in some fireside bonding, asking his foster father to go home to Rome, and then when bad!dad is like “lol no” (surely they would have had that convo before??? surely Arminius would have known how far his career could go???), Arminius turns around and goes “let’s kill 3 Roman legions!! I’M MAD!!” ... lmao dude, just...
Another favourite of mine: The romance between Thusnelda and Folkwin is supposed to be illicit and against her social status. Does anyone even notice? Does anybody even care? Why did the writers come up with Folkwin in the first place? (His name Folkwin Wolfspeer is a hoot and an embarassment in itself. I wonder whether they used some kind of Germanic name generator. They certainly did use a generic speech generator for the battle speech Arminius gives in the last episode lol)
Back to the topic of a lack of tension. Of course there can’t be any tension if the characters suck. But it’s also because of the design of the scenes and plot points. The cliffhangers are so telegraphed and artificially constructed, it’s almost hilarious. My “favourite” has got to be the one of the first episode: The “hi dad” one. Not only does Arminius go to the village with other Romans in tow who then disappear because nothing in this show makes sense but this kind of revelation also goes against everything we know about good storytelling. There’s a famous quote by Hitchcock and I’ll quote it in full because I think it absolutely applies here (and it is valid for character tension as much as it is for suspense):
There is a distinct difference between "suspense" and "surprise," and yet many pictures continually confuse the two. I'll explain what I mean.
We are now having a very innocent little chat. Let's suppose that there is a bomb underneath this table between us. Nothing happens, and then all of a sudden, "Boom!" There is an explosion. The public is surprised, but prior to this surprise, it has seen an absolutely ordinary scene, of no special consequence. Now, let us take a suspense situation. The bomb is underneath the table and the public knows it, probably because they have seen the anarchist place it there. The public is aware the bomb is going to explode at one o'clock and there is a clock in the decor. The public can see that it is a quarter to one. In these conditions, the same innocuous conversation becomes fascinating because the public is participating in the scene. The audience is longing to warn the characters on the screen: "You shouldn't be talking about such trivial matters. There is a bomb beneath you and it is about to explode!"
In the first case we have given the public fifteen seconds of surprise at the moment of the explosion. In the second we have provided them with fifteen minutes of suspense. The conclusion is that whenever possible the public must be informed. Except when the surprise is a twist, that is, when the unexpected ending is, in itself, the highlight of the story.
I hope you can see what I mean here. Barbarians continuously springs surprises on its audience but it has absolutely no tension/suspense in any of its scenes. The only time where the show even comes close to having any kind of genuinely dramatic moment is the conversation between Arminius and Varus where Arminius tries to hide his hurt and disappointment, and all the emotion in that scene is completely due to the actor since the dialogue is fairly idiotic for what is supposed to be the turning moment. Let’s go back to the basics and imagine what the show could have done differently, even allowing for the way in which the writers wanted to tell it (which, as I mentioned, is not appropriately sensitized to the misappropriation of the material in the past - but even if we go with THAT kind of freedom fighter / lost child narrative, it ought to be done well). And here now follows my actual essay of grievances:
The premise of the story, in as much as we know from history, is amazing: An officer of the Roman army, delivered to the Romans by his tribe as a child, returns to the "country" of his birth as part of the invading Roman army which oppresses the natives of the lands. He switches sides, unites different tribes and leads them to a decisive victory against the Roman army in a battle in a forest that lasted for several days and was cleverly planned by the "Germans" who end up outsmarting the Romans who are victims of ambush and the terrain, being split up and stumbling through the forest exhausted and without finding a way back to the other troops (love that the show as we have it managed to squeeze in the cliché "two armies standing on opposing sides decide to just start running towards each other, epic clash, chaos" (which is militarily so fucking stupid and nobody ever did that)).
Anyway, that premise is amazing. You could do so much with it. And if you wanted to make a miniseries about it, the biggest question would surely be: Why did Arminius switch sides? That’s the key plot point. And themes of otherness, oppression, exploitation, identity, and so on, would be a good fit. The first problem with the miniseries is that it has nothing to say about any of that. Arminius doesn’t even feel like the main character (aside from his actor being a cut above the rest). We don’t get to see much of his POV. We don’t get many meaningful conversations between him and Varus (actually just one after which he has a total character transplant). Instead, we get to spend lots of time with characters that don’t add anything in particular to the central plot nor to any of the central themes. Literally, why? 6 episodes is already pretty fucking short to make Arminius’ turn believable, so you’d better spend most of them on him. This is not material for an ensemble show (nevermind that the other characters suck and are not well-acted and written to behave stupidly... that’s just ON TOP of the fundamental issue of this show lacking a POV).
Like, you can turn this into a big Hollywood action movie about the battle or you make it a character drama where the battle is also told from a character perspective (i.e. focusing on the mounting fear and desperation of the soldiers as the battle drags on for days etc but more importantly focusing on why the battle takes place and why it’s important to both the Romans and the “Germans”). As it is, in the show, we don’t get any idea why the Romans are even there in the first place and pestering the people by demanding some tributes. And we don’t get any idea why the Germanic tribes are so opposed to this or why others of them might not be. We don’t get any of the broader political implications, we just get some eagle-stealing pranks (defiance!! cool, just agitate them in a completely stupid and arbitrary way, why don’t you) and a few people executed because the “Germans” were being stupid. That’s not the scale that’s needed here. And I don’t mean that we needed to see mass executions. In fact, I would have preferred if there had been no such hackneyed and emotionally manipulative device.
Arminius is basically absent for all the early encounters of the Romans with the “Germans”. So while we suspect that the mistreatment of the “Germans” at the hands of the Romans would be a strong motivational factor for him, we don’t actually see him witness any of few hints in that direction that we get, so it doesn’t actually matter for his character arc. I have so many issues with how his arc is written. In the first episodes, we don’t get any sense that he’s not a happy Roman. When a “Barbarian” mercenary ridicules Rome, he has him whipped and we don’t get much of a sense that he’s very conflicted about it. Even just moments before he ends up destroying his effigies of Roman gods, we see him trying to get Varus to send him back to Rome. Earlier in the same episode, he prays to those Roman gods. I’m sorry but wtf? How the turntables... If you want to make it believable that he would turn on Rome, why not start with him already being frustrated with the way that things in Rome work? With the way the army is run? And why not give him a careerist streak and make him frustrated that he can’t advance much further because of his lowly birth and background? And instead of Varus being an asshole to him about it (he’s supposed to be his foster father, surely Arminius would already know how Varus thinks about his people and surely he’d already know how far he can climb up the ranks), have Varus be sympathetic but basically like “sorry, there’s nothing I can do.”
Arminius betraying Rome shouldn’t be about Varus saying something mean~, if anything a personal connection of his with Varus should just make the betrayal harder and be something that he does despite the fact that there are Romans he cares about. If you start out the show with him already having significant doubts about his place in the Roman army and identity issues, you just need to add something to it that will finally breaks the camel’s back. Have him become increasingly agitated by the way the "Germans” are treated by the Romans. Start the show with him making to leave Rome, someone asking him whether he’s excited to return to his place of birth and him joking about it but obviously being conflicted and then overwhelmed when he actually gets there because it totally destroys his sense of self which he has built for himself (and for which we would have needed to see the contrast, even if just for one scene, of how he is treated in Rome – perhaps snobbed by others, not treated equally in some sort of social setting, could be something subtle – to show us and him that as much as he wishes, he is not and will never be accepted as a Roman).
And then when he gets to the provinces, we need to see that from his perspective. What’s his reaction to arriving there? To seeing the familiar landscapes? (Or maybe he was taken as a younger child and doesn’t actually have that many memories of it but feels a sense of belonging anyway.) There are so many scenes in this show that seem to hint at these things but they are completely random and unfocused and interspersed with the stupid village people shenanigans. Varus talks about burning down villages in retribution. Well, why don’t we see any of that? (Nevermind that it’s comic book villain level of evil, but I’m working with a fix here and not a total rewrite as would be better.) Surely it can’t be too expensive to burn down a few huts in the night. And having Arminius ride along / witness it but not say anything even though we can see these things having an effect on him. As mentioned: The worst offense is the scene when he rides to the village (with other Romans in tow!) and announces “hi dad!” just to have that cliffhanger. Wtf?
Characters doling out information that the viewer doesn’t have is the absolute worst way of telling a story and maintaining tension. It should be the other way around. How about instead you have him be part of a Roman delegation that rides into the village and demands [random, whatever, the fucking eagle if you must keep that shit] and when the Reik (whom the audience already knows to be Arminius’ father) doesn’t want to give it (because he’s not actually a weak fucking clown as almost everyone in the actual show is aside from feisty Thusnelda who’s a fierce~ fucking clown rmfe), the Romans begin beating the dad or whipping him or whatever, completely humiliating him and his people, and we see Arminius on his horse watching the show with growing unrest until the realization really hits him that this is his father (cue flashback to a very young Arminius being dragged away) and the tension keeps ratcheting until he shouts in German “that’s enough” before correcting himself to give the same command in Latin (maybe he still thinks in German, would be an interesting idea) and the Romans look at him with suspicion, like wtf was that, and the "Germans” are like, why tf does this Roman officer speak German, and it’s super awkward and shit and maybe Varus is also there and he looks at Arminius like, oh shit I need to protect my boy he’s actually all up in his feels about these wildlings let’s go back to the camp and have a talk, and so the Romans end up leaving and the “Germans” are like “wait, was that... could it have been.. remember lil Ari who you gave up... but it couldn’t be...” and meanwhile the beaten dad doesn’t want to hear any of that because he actually has never dared hope he would see his son again and also he kind of doesn’t want to see him again because he would be too ashamed to meet his eyes.
And then later we see Arminius pacing up and down in his tent because this won’t let him go, even after he had a talk with Varus, and after some agonizing he steals away in the night to go confront his father (if you want to keep that German mercenary noticing shit, have him notice that). And then we see the father in his hut and everything is quiet and we are waiting for Arminius to show up because we know he’s on his way. But we don’t know whether he wants to talk to his father or just kill him in revenge for the trauma he’s caused him. You’d show the dad and if it were a good actor, you could see so much in his unrest, maybe despite not wanting to think that that guy could be his son, he kind of knows in his heart that it must be and he’s unsettled and whatnot and then we hear someone outside the door and the door opens and there stands Arminius in a cloak and there’s none of that ridiculous music that wants to scream “epic” but falls way short. Have it be quiet. Have Arminius enter and pull back the hood and they just look at each other. And the dad looks like he wants to hug him but he doesn’t move. And Arminius looks like he wants to murder him but he actually moves to sit down, all the while they keep an eye on each other because who knows, they might actually end up murdering each other. That’s the kind of confrontation you need with a reunion like this jfc. And then they talk and it’s an important scene and I’m not going to write it all out but I hope y’all know what I mean.
I feel like you’d have to rewrite this whole show to actually give the character drama the weight that it needs and deserves because what’s happening in the show is dramatic af but you wouldn’t know because it’s so unbelievably stupidly written. I CANNOT believe that when Arminius is back in the village, he’s standing around with Thusnelda and Folkwin in a field as if they’re catching up at a high school reunion. “So, how’s it been?” “My name is now Arminius lol” “You’re kidding lol” ... uhm hello ??? Is this show a meme or...???
Actually as a last thought, I would have kept Arminius’ mother alive and killed his dad. His dad is irredeemable. He gave him away. But if we assume that he never had a substitute mother, then meeting his mother again (who was against giving him away) would make for much more interesting scenes and would also have a much stronger impact on Arminius. I’ll stop now but I just wanted to note how much I hate the writing on this show and everything it chooses to be. Thanks.
#anonymous#ask#reply#barbarians spoilers#barbarians meta#tv: barbarians#txt#i feel like there is so much more to say#actually the show would need to be rewritten from scratch to be either a good character drama or a good period drama or both#forget my fix here#you can't fix stupid#the whole motivation for arminius' betrayal would need to be revamped#with an eye towards the ways in which it has been misused#in history#but at the same time the story DOES need to be told from his POV imo and it's not here and that's the biggest issue#the conflict within the Roman army would have made for the most intriguing approach#and all that childhood sweetheart bs has to go#that was the worst#so soapy and plain bad#can you imagine how amazing it would've been for roman officer arminius to meet germanic princess thusnelda for the first time?#(if she had been written and acted well)#what could have been...#imma cry#(also WHY is varus the actual foster father of arminius instead of just a higher-ranking officer who takes him under his wing#when he joins up bc he takes a liking to the kid? just... aöldjsfaökdjls)
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I tried to respond to this with a “read more” cut that didn’t work, but I made the mistake of adding some HTML editing, and I didn’t realize deleting the post to try again would DELETE THE MESSAGE? Super cool website. Luckily I still had the ask in another tab for a screenshot.
ANYWAY, I’ve only gotten a few asks, actually, but this is many in one! And this took me a while because when it comes to writing I don’t know when to shut up!
The first question is interesting for a Telltale game, because the player chooses what Bruce does, so the answer could easily be whatever YOU like about John that makes you want to treat him more like a person than a tool. Then again, the times when you can make choices are limited, as are the actual choices (see: no opportunity to contact John post lab attack), plus Bruce does have reactions you can’t control. So his character is whatever blend results from the writing and the player.
But we’re specifically talking about the shipping-friendly scenarios! So let’s forget the meta and just assume the player makes the non-jerkass choices with John. Points are in the order they occurred to me.
>>>>>
1) John’s “light outside of Arkham” speech comes to mind first of course. The first time I watched that monologue and the camera switched to Bruce, I realized he and I had the same expression. Interactions with John are largely off-beat, and what he says about the lights still is given that it’s centered around an asylum, but it’s also very earnest and honest. It’s a very humanizing moment that makes clear that John’s attachment to Harley is very real.
I recognize that that is jarley-centric, but a) I don’t subscribe to the idea that John is actually talking about Bruce in this scene and b) that said, I think it still extends to Bruce. John is expressing genuine attachment to a person he admires and seeks guidance from (and sees as attractive), after all. His vulnerability should only emphasize to Bruce the importance of taking him seriously.
2) John is very open with Bruce immediately, starting at Lucius’s funeral. When John talks about being “the new guy” on the outside, it’s very sympathetic, even if you think John is actively playing for that sympathy to get Bruce to help him. Both things can be true. (I imagine this is a tactic he used in Arkham.) Later you get the sense that if John tried to talk to Harley about wanting to retreat to the asylum, she’d probably make fun of him.
John is up front with Bruce constantly, and that can be difficult not to reciprocate at least to some degree.
3) Speaking of the funeral, I think the fact that John brings a card calls for the “thoughtful” option. It is the wrong kind of card, and you wouldn’t normally give one to nonfamily of the deceased at the funeral, and if you’re going to do it anyway I guess you should also bring one for the family, buuuuuuuuuut I can see Bruce appreciating that John tried. And you know what? Telltale wrote that scene with no option to tell John to wait to talk to you OUTSIDE, which is what anybody on earth would do when someone arrived uninvited to a funeral and one of the main facts you know about them is that they happily knifed a guy, so we’re left to assume that Bruce finds John THAT intriguing.
4) When John says he likes Batman, Bruce has this proud little look on his face. “Hell yeah, you think Batman is cool!” He seems too pleased to hear it to think of John as just a game piece.
Jumping back to the coffee date, Bruce also has that semi-sheepish proud little shrug when John tells him how well he’s doing impersonating Harley. Bruce is having more fun in that scene the longer it goes, and probably wishes it really was just a casual conversation with a friend.
5) And related to that, Bruce has multiple opportunities to advise John about Harley (and, really, about how to behave appropriately in general). I don’t think Bruce puts in that effort if he doesn’t feel for John, in how he’s new to… almost everything. Also, to Bruce, the chances of John ending up back in Arkham or in prison must be HIGH, yet he puts in that effort anyway.
6) Taking the time to train John to throw a batarang seems like a little much to keep a good contact happy. Why waste precious laptop hacking time if not because you want to do your little buddy another favor? Also, if you so choose, why GIVE HIM ONE OF YOUR WEAPONS? Just… you don’t do that for someone you don’t like, or for someone you don’t think could be reliable help in combat later.
7) We don’t see Bruce laugh that often in the game, but I think he thinks John is funny. No way Bruce reflects on the shadow puppet scene later and doesn’t at least crack a smile at the idea of Gordon having that mustache as a baby.
8) John saves Bruce’s life multiple times. There’s rescuing him from the Arkham attack in Season 1, and then there’s triggering the EMP generator before Bane decides to kill him, as well as saving his butt from either Freeze or Bane in the virus storage area depending if you threw Catwoman under the bus or not. (If you didn’t, maybe John doesn’t get Bruce out of the ice machine back at Old Five Points, but his attempt to stand up to Harley is a pretty big deal for him.)
John will also save Bruce at certain quick time events, like if Bruce doesn’t duck when you’re with the Pact in the incinerator. You gotta like someone who helps keep you alive.
>>>>>
I tried to stay pre-funhouse, because narratively, that seems like the point where “this person is my friend” should be locked in, whether you tell John you believe him or not. I’m sure I’m forgetting moments since I haven’t played in a while, but I’ve listed enough to demonstrate that the writers provide ample opportunity for a friendship to form.
When it comes to romantic love, though, I’m not sure there’s a definitive moment, especially given the situation Bruce is in. He knows he cares about John, but I think he might need downtime (relative downtime for Batman, so like quiet cave research time) to realize he feels something more. So maybe in the couple weeks before Vigilante Joker’s debut, Bruce realizes he’s not just worried about where John is with the virus, but he really misses his eccentric pal. Or maybe it takes longer and happens post game when he visits John in Arkham, and has time to reflect on what John said about wanting Bruce’s love, not to mention the brief but memorable experience of having John as a partner. (Instant combat coordination! What!)
Now if we’re talking Villain Joker, the whole “I did love you” speech at their final confrontation indicates that Bruce realized his feelings before that. (I mean, people can still interpret that line as nonromantic love, but… come on.) Which seems odd, given that John and Harley started running around offing people by the hundreds, buuuuut that just makes me think it was the fact that John ran off with Harley and abandoned any of Bruce’s influence that made Bruce realize sooner how attached he felt.
(And maybe also that John made out with Harley right in front of him. I know that scene upsets some people, but it just made me laugh. Every single thing John does in the villain scenario is to get under Bruce’s skin, so I just thought, “Are you trying to make him jealous?? dkjfalshgalgha”)
As for BPD, it certainly matches up with a lot of John’s behavior. Honestly, though, fleshing out John’s particular diagnoses is not something I’ve focused on. It was part of a whole load of research I did on mental health care overall, but I just sort of blend what I’ve retained with trying to keep John consistent with his game portrayal. I don’t have substantial experience with mental health care so my personal comfort with representing him as having anything specific is looowwwww.
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I like relaxed language and I like blackness. This anthology is a celebration of both.
tawk
Sometimes we’re afraid to talk. Yes, WE. This might be about black talkin, but this here is for you too Sandy-Sue and Jin-Woo. I know you’ve had those days when somethin forces you to speak or preach or teach something you’d be much better off talkin about. You scour your brain in search of synonyms you learned in an English class (some time ago) or for some phrase you picked up from your favorite politically active musician – all for nada – because, in your scavenger-hunt for eloquence, you end up with 1000 syllables that don’t say anything. Trust me, I know the feeling. (Deleting those Gs and forgoing those apostrophes a few lines up still has me wary of some impending doom. O_o) [imagine the courage it took to include an emoticon.]
It is this fear of writing the way I feel most comfortable expressing myself that convinced me that this anthology needed to be compiled. It needed to be compiled and needs to be delivered to every writer that thinks their words aren’t good enough and to every reader that thinks some writer’s metaphors are too big and meaning too small. I want this anthology to combat any notion that in poetry white high-language is right language and that slang is to be reserved for Langston Hughes and Maya Angelou. This anthology, black-tawk, is intended to act as an examination of Black-American identity in contemporary poets through their specific use of colloquial vernacular, to be referred to as black-talk. These poems are compiled in order to reject “high language” (white-talk) as the only suitable means of intelligent and normative expression and that slave-talk is the only example of recognizable black expression. I seek to find a contemporary river of black voices that flow somewhere between a Mattie and a Michael Eric Dyson (and certainly above a Tyler Perry.)
So what does black-talk between a Mattie and a Dyson sound like? It sounds like black people you hear talking every day. There are no meanings lost in abstract metaphor, no need to keep a library assistant on call and there’s the occasional glimpse of slang. Nah, I ain’t only talkin ‘bout that talk you hurd on the corner’a 3rd and Main, because while that’s beautiful, this anthology hopes to reveal subtle currents of vernacular that black poets use to express blackness. Of course there’s more than a heap of uses of slang’s shining star - “ain’t,” but he’s joined by “nuff” and “betcha” and even “cd” (could.) And these are sometimes decorated by the absence of punctuation that lends itself to an exploration of space and caesura to create natural and lulling speech patterns that mimic the way black people talk. You won’t find Queen’s English here. Nothing like what Jamil (Robert Sims) in his poem “pre-sentence Report” (page____) refers to as “…nouns that // old Sigmund couldn’t EVEN spell.” Though in his poem Sims speaks of medical jargon, there are certainly poets that employ a sort of poetic jargon requires too much energy to decipher.
Not that deciphering is all bad, we wouldn’t want lazy readers, but when simplicity is forgone merely to sound poetic, the authenticity that makes poetry beautiful is lost. Stephanie Pruitt, a young poet from Nashville, could write novels about the process and love involved in getting her hair hot combed in the kitchen – but she doesn’t need to. Her haiku “Hair raising” (page _____) is beautiful in its ability to, concisely, resonate with black girls everywhere. “Hair burning in the kitchen” could easily become “kinky fibers laid straight by heated comb permeates the air in the place meals are made,” but it doesn’t need to. Now the form of haiku is innately simple but this same current of simplicity can be found throughout the anthology in various forms.
black
Sometimes we’re afraid to be black. Yes WE. This might be about black talkin but if you change black to “chino” or “country” this here is for you too Jose and Billy-Rae. It’s about black talkin because black talkin is what I know best. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been made to feel afraid to express my blackness (or asian-ness or mexican-ness.) If a university environment is any representation of the real world, and I fear it may be more forgiving of race, people don’t want black people to be black. Every scorned sagging pant, every kinky twist pressed to oblivion, every set of braids chopped off for a job where suits and ties are need can serve as a testament that black people aren’t allowed to be black.
Oh, but that’s not true, we have a black president! – right, having one black president negates the pressure every white professor ceo quarterback vice-president student government official city official member of congress employed contributing member of society member of congress places on black people to act white right.
…
…
I needed space to let that sit. The minority will always be made inferior when evaluated against the majority. Being black isn’t wrong, it’s just not being white. There are thousands of conversations to be had about blackness and black identity and defining what “black” is, but this is not a research paper and I am not an anthropological expert on the matter. So you ask, what does blackness have to do with this poetry anthology, and what does that contribute to life? Well, blackness is in the everyday things that black people do. There is no singular blackness. If you’re a black girl that gets a perm and a silky-smooth 32” Remy, you’re exuding blackness just as much as the sister pickin her afro every morning. If you’re a black boy with clean locks sitting proudly on the shoulder pads of your new Armani suit, you’re exuding blackness just as much as the scruffy brother in the newest Js and a tall-tee (although I personally detest tall-tees, that doesn’t negate the blackness found wearing it.)
Since poetry is a manifestation of expression based on personal experiences, black poets should be allowed to be black poets, right? No. An Essay by Evie Shockley entitled “All of the above: Multiple choice and African American Poetry” included in the introduction to the anthology “Rainbow Darkness,” edited by Keith Tuma, examines the reasons black authors are not allowed to be black authors. In short, he states (and I agree) that black authors (I would say all black artists) are subjected to “the poetics litmus test.” They must be judged based on political allegiances and racial “authenticity” rather than ability or talent. If a poet talks like Langston Hughes, they are authentically black, which is good, but they are a “black” poet not an “American” poet. According to Shockley, in order to receive the privileges “American” poets are afforded:
“An African American poet has had to avoid writing in styles or about subjects that are recognizably “black” in favor of “universal themes” and conventional aesthetics. Or she could slip in the back door by appearing willing to narrate ‘the black experience’ for white consumption in ways that do not fundamentally deconstruct white (liberal) understandings of race or directly advocate revolutionary social change.”
This provides a perfect explanation concerning why black poets are pressured away from talking black. Even I question whether or not I want to be “that black poet” every time my mind wants to pen a thought about kinky hair, “unique” names, or encounters with racism. Just as the fear of talking convinced me of the necessity of this anthology, the fear of being black doubly convinces me that there are people that need this.
black-tawk
I like relaxed language and I like blackness and this anthology is a celebration of both. These poets aren’t afraid to be black even when they’re not talking about black things. This collection includes poets just talkin and poets just being black and poets talkin about being black – none afraid to share their identity and the language they speak. Ntozake Shange isn’t afraid to write poems in a manner that is supposed to be talked. Sapphire sees the significance of what Claireece P. Jones has to say, and how she says it. Celes Tisdale saw the need for people to hear what inmates from Attica think. All of these voices have been gathered to fight the fear of being Black regular Mexican Asian poor Jamaican poorly-educated well-educated strange normal smart dumb black-tawking.
black-tawk is right. Don’t be shamed of it. These are your peers.
my tawk
And now that I’ve splattered you with my thoughts/rants about blackness and language and wooed you with my semi-intellectual prowess, I’d like to free myself of the black burden – a burden that has weighed heavy on my mind since I started compiling these poems. What is the black burden you ask? For me, it is the false interpretation that any black voice is THE black voice. To those reading in hopes of better understanding the black race based solely on the compilation of a 22-year-old-half-black-half-mexican-and-japanese-middle-class-college-guy I say: I am not THE black voice. I am not THE black voice. I am not THE black voice. I, like the poems selected for this anthology, do not represent the entire black race or encompass all Black-American identity. There is no anthology or single person that does. I, and these poems, do however represent a current of thought, a movement, towards talking. Towards tawking. Towards tawking black. black-tawk. Enjoy.
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Alright, ok, oh wow, HOOOO BOYYYY.
Episode 64!!!
Summary: AN ENTIRE TRASHFIRE.
How do I start? Every time I think show has hit rock bottom, they just smash through the floor and keep going.
-I don’t know who can argue that the Emperor is acting ethically. WHO. There are two possible explanations to the positions the Emperor and Empress have taken re: Huirou
(a) The entire scandal would rock the court, and given that the Emperor is still steadfastly refusing to publicly name an heir (though privately his mind is made up), the political fall out would be immense, and supremely inconvenient to the Emperor
This is the guy who despite knowing he’s fucking dying won’t settle the succession issue because he still thinks his weak-ass body will produce an imperial son. In the conversation he has with Fu Bi, he points out that if he does appoint someone from the Imperial Clan but later has his own son, things would be worse.
[Or, you know, you could stop taking young and fertile women into your bed? THE HORROR OF THAT CONCEPT, OH NO, IMPOSSIBLE. WHAT IS CONTRACEPTION. WHAT IS ABSTINENCE. (don’t @ me techniques of contraception are historical, ffs)]
Basically, the desire to have a hypothetical biological heir to succeed him trumps his moral obligation to protect his real, live daughter. And somehow this is presented as a “non choice” in the drama that we’re supposed to agree with, or rather that it is still a “reasonable” and “justified” choice. No, it fucking isn’t. It’s one thing to keep hoping for an heir when you are 30 and healthy, it’s another when you are 50+ and dying.
If Renzong had just made the choice to announce his heir, even with some remonstrances and whatever shit, he would have absolutely gotten away with getting Huirou out of the marriage, because he’d have given the majority of the court what they really wanted, and Sima Guang would have screamed for a bit and then had to shut up.
(b) They could have left it at the above - i.e. it’s a political decision rather than a personal one and he would personally rather have annulled the marriage- and I might have still have rolled my eyes and just moved on; HOWEVER.
The drama makes it explicitly clear that HE DOESN’T THINK SHE’S BEEN WRONGED. EXPLICIT AS IN THESE ARE THE WORDS COMING OUT OF HIS FUCKING MOUTH TO HE’ER WHO’S COME TO BEG HIM TO SEND LI WEI AWAY SO THAT HUIROU WON’T HAVE TO GO BACK.
It’s a request that apparently offends HIS sense of justice!!!! His refusal to punish Li Wei is not just about political considerations, but because:
(HE’ER’s FACE!!!)
OH REALLY.
SO MUCH WOW. MUCH AMAZE.
MY ETHICAL AND INFALLIBLE RENZONG WHO’S BEEN PUT TO SO MUCH TROUBLE BY A ‘STUBBORN’ DAUGHTER.
Like, I honestly think the show could have left this entire thing as “political compulsions” and made it about his clash with his court. But no, they have him explicitly acknowledge that he doesn’t think Huirou should have any autonomy over her body, i.e. she is the property of the Li clan to do as they will, and we, as the audience are still supposed to sympathize with him, rather than Huirou? Still see him, with his victim-blaming, shaming rhetoric aimed at his own flesh and blood as ETHICAL AND JUST??????
WHAT THE ENTIRE FUCK.
And now, also, because I still have MAJOR ISSUES WITH IT, let’s circle around to Fucklord and Danshu.
In one of the early episodes, he tells Maoze that he doesn’t want to “force” his legal wife to be with him i.e. he won’t force a consummation. I bet a lot of us went (oh!!! what a good dude!!! How sweet!!!(though god, like, what standards we have, huh???)
And then, 15 years later in the show’s time frame, that consummation happens when he gets into an argument with Danshu, and then, in a rage, uses his physical power to overpower her resistance. (Let’s not even get into how he’s the fucking Emperor, she has to obey, even if there had been no physical violence!)
Now you tell me: which is the real Renzong- the one in the first episode or the one the second?
Was the first refusal on principle of “i don’t want to violate my wife’s consent because that would be a violation of personhood” or was it, in hindsight, “I want her to crawl to me, I will not be the one to beg her forgiveness for the insult i offered her on our wedding night”.
Because, you see, at some point in those 15 years, he ran out of “patience” and then acted on (what we guessed before and now explicitly stated in episode 64) his actual belief: a wife has no entitlement to her own body, she is the property of her husband.
So, now, those still arguing about how the incident with Danshu was rape or not- not to him, certainly.
“Oh but Danshu didn’t think of it as rape either!”
Yes, the show does a huge song and dance about it too, to make it clear to US that Danshu doesn’t see it as rape. (just in case we had any doubts, huh, show? because you knew what you were trying to cover up right, you knew that some people would see that scene and go wait, what???) I’ll come to Danshu’s attitude a bit later.
But to us, as the audience? Where should it fall, now that you know without any ambiguity his attitude re: bodily autonomy of women within the institution of marriage?
And finally, let me touch on Danshu vs Huirou in the show, two women who are explicitly unhappy in their marriages, though for different reasons.
- Danshu’s marriage starts out unhappy because she’s in love with a man who gives no fucks about her.
- In contrast/parallel, Huirou’s marriage is unhappy because she gives no fucks about him, and is actively repulsed by him.
Danshu’s crisis is resolved over a period of nearly two decades and achieved by her entirely subjugating her self to him, including not characterizing his violation of her body as rape. This isn’t even all that strange- if you view it in the context of the whittling down of her self worth by sustained emotional abuse to the point that she cannot even think herself worthy of the very basic respect. Do you know how many women stay in abusive marriages because they end up believing “he abuses me because he loves me”? or a variation “it’s not abuse, it’s love, it’s for my own good”. do you know how many women still continue to love their abusers? do you know how many abusers constantly insist that they love their victims, that their actions are actually out of love too? A WHOLE FUCKING LOT.
At this point, Danshu’s entire being seems focused only on what can make Renzong happy, what will bring him most comfort, what will make his life easier- and every other relationship, including now, her’s with He’er and Huirou suffers for it.
I could have even accepted this fate for Danshu’s character- because yes, some women don’t escape their tragedies- if the writer had shown the SLIGHTEST FUCKING AWARENESS THAT THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE SHOWING.
But NO, in the most EPIC gaslighting I’ve see in a while, they have continued to insist that Danshu and Renzong are a “romance.”
Now coming to Huirou- in contrast with what has happened with Danshu, Huirou is still at the point that she’s ABSOLUTELY CONTESTING every attempt to have done to her what was done to Danshu. She sees clearly how her life will be, how her entire being will be destroyed, if she continues to stay in that marriage and she’s fighting for her own life tooth and nail with the only weapon in her arsenal- at this point - self harm and the threat of suicide. Luckily for her, she does have some support in He’er, Huaiji and even the head eunuch in her household, and Superintendent Ren. (Everyone except the Empress, who by rights, should have been on her side, and would have been, if the writers had chosen to take her down a different path early on)
Unfortunately for her, it’s clear where the writers sympathies lie: if they think that what happened with Danshu is the “happy ending”, then how can Huirou have any other ending either? Oh, they might show her sad for a bit to leave Huaiji, but i can bet you anything, that the ending will be framed in such a way that it shows that her final choice to go back to the marriage as the “morally right” one/. If they didn’t it would be inconsistent with the internal logic/moral philosophy of this story.
I’ve said before- I can accept tragedies. I can accept tragedies that happen to women, even.
What I can’t accept is when you don’t call it what it is.
Or the kind of writing that equates Renzong’s tragedies- which are largely products of chance (the death of his kids) or his position in life (an emperor who must sacrifice some personal desires in service of his duties) to the tragedies of the women that are inflicted on them not by chance or circumstance but by the actions of those with more power than them. The writing in the show never, ever, acknowledges the specificity of the harms, and spends a considerable amount of time exonerating its perpetrators (see latest eg Li Wei), and wow, what more can I say except one last -FUCK. YOU.
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IMO, realistically Dick would have been the first one to reach out to Jason upon hearing he was back, for the exact same reasons he took a chance on Damian as Robin (which Bruce very likely wouldn’t have), and he took a chance on trusting Raven and forming the new Teen Titans to stop Trigon after the Justice League had already turned her away because demon energies mumble mumble, and look I’m just saying -
Dick Grayson is the guy who takes chances on people. Who gives them the benefit of the doubt. Who risks big for even the possibility of having his faith in people justified.
The only reason he didn’t do that with Jason, and help ease the way towards Jason reconciling with the family...
IS BECAUSE DC SPENT YEARS ACTIVELY NOT WANTING JASON RECONCILED WITH THE FAMILY.
Keeping Jason at odds with the rest of the Batfamily was absolutely a CHOICE DC made, deliberately and consciously. So like....instead of looking to shitty interactions that make EVERYONE involved look out of character, to use as inspiration for Dick and Jason’s interactions in fics that otherwise are more than happy to disregard canon anyway.....
I’m just saying, instead of writing Dick as backing up Bruce’s caution and disapproval towards Jason, what if instead you look to the very very very well established pattern of Dick trusting and being close with people his father definitely doesn’t approve of and is wary of, like....idk, pretty much all the Titans at one point or another, plus a bunch of the Outsiders, plus the considerable number of criminals and antiheroes he’s managed to make nice with over the years, and like...tbh, off the top of my head, the only person I can think of who both Bruce and Dick don’t like that much is Ollie? LMAO. That’s it. And in Dick’s case, that probably has a lot to do with the fact that Ollie’s never been a huge fan of his either.
*Shrugs* Anywho, have Dick and Jason at odds after the latter’s return if you wanna write them that way, I mean, whatever, but this guy who is all stiff and uncomfortable and judgmental around Jason with no other reasoning given that like, Bruce doesn’t trust him or approve and thus neither does Dick, like....what???
(And yeah, I know he was written that way in Brothers in Blood, but again - see the bit where DC didn’t WANT Jason getting along with the family, and also....Jason showed up in town in Dick’s costume and started getting Dick a reputation of murdering people, and Dick happens to care quite a bit about how he’s seen as a vigilante, given that he’s always put a ton of effort into being approachable and such, and then Jason started poking directly at Dick’s still fairly recent and HUGE scab aka his feeling responsible for Blockbuster’s death....like, there are plenty of reasons why in that particular story arc, Dick wasn’t falling over himself to be like welcome home little brother who had a million and one opportunities to approach me and THIS is the way you chose to do it. And like...none of them have anything to do with Bruce).
But like, bottom line....behind the scenes decisions always play a huge role in these things....and make no mistake, originally DC brought Jason back to be a Batfamily antagonist. That was their Big Idea there. He wasn’t intended to occupy the angry Robin niche, DC wanted someone to fill the ‘fallen from grace’ Robin niche....until they eventually realized no most people wanted Jason as a good guy or at least antihero and not pitted against his family and they took advantage of the reboot to do that.
Like there’s a reason that Brothers in Blood and Outsiders were pretty much the ONLY time Jason and Dick interacted after his return up until Battle for the Cowl, and that’s because the majority of Nightwing writers didn’t WANT to use Jason when it meant having to have him and Dick dramatically at odds with no chance of anything other than that.
Like....the very specific reason that people writing Dick just mindlessly backing up Bruce’s stance towards Jason in fics with no dissent, like the reason this drives me up a wall isn’t even actually because of my uh...well documented opinion that they were closer before Jason’s death than is usually assumed. No, like even without that, that characterization for Dick completely fails to take into account that for a good twenty years, Dick was DELIBERATELY characterized as the guy who took chances on the very people Bruce wouldn’t.
That Bruce himself was characterized as saying the thing that he was most proud of Nightwing for and why he felt he’d become a better version of what he’d always wanted Batman to be, is because Dick had never lost his ability to trust in people even after being let down....because his trust was never based in naïveté but was rather a conscious CHOICE not to let the reasons he’d been given not to trust people actually take away his determination to have his faith in them proven RIGHT.
While DC was leaning into all the stories that highlighted Batman as paranoid and untrusting like The Tower of Babel with his contingencies against all the Justice League and Brother Eye and stuff, for a good fifteen years before Jason’s return....throughout all that time they were intentionally writing Dick as being the polar opposite of Bruce in that SPECIFIC regard. Like, for decades Dick was the guy DC wrote all the other characters turning to when they wanted to COMPLAIN about Bruce’s trust issues or refusal to give someone or something a shot. It legitimately just does not make much sense to simply position him as Bruce’s unquestioning number two in all matters Jason when in most every other matter Dick is the first one to be written challenging Bruce’s decisions.
So many of you guys have spent years writing Dick as the real problem child, unreasonably stubborn and likely to pick a fight with Bruce at the drop of a hat (PARTICULARLY people who write about Bruce and Jason in his years as Robin)....how come THAT characterization only seems to disappear the second Bruce is like “welp, Jason is bad now forever, oh well” huh? And only then for once Dick is like sounds about right to me boss! Like....hmm. Nothing about that seems convenient to anyone?
Like if you’re going to keep one thing in mind about Dick’s character, how about instead of his temper or flightiness or cheery jokes or chipperness or unreasonable stubbornness like....what if instead people focused on a core characteristic like how even as far back as The Judas Contract, one of the Titans’ most iconic and definitive stories....
the Titans only beat Deathstroke after he infiltrated them using Terra as his mole and literally all of them were captured except for Dick....because Dick didn’t have to rescue the others all on his own.
He did it with Joey’s help.
Because pretty much right after the reveal that Terra was a traitor who was working for Slade for as long as they’d known her....Dick chose to take a chance on trusting a complete stranger, with the story then validating his decision to believe the best of this new person instead of compounding the idea they never should have trusted Terra by having Joey turn on them too.
And the fact that the very first new person Dick chose to trust after Terra’s betrayal was Slade’s very own son....that wasn’t a coincidence. That wasn’t dramatic irony.
That was the POINT.
And this core characteristic of Dick’s has been held up time after time after time....so why can’t something like THAT be treated as defining and indicative of him as all these other fanon flaws and attributes that are usually based on a mere handful of panels or issues and then blown wildly out of proportion? How come he can spend so much time being characterized in fics as hot tempered and likely to go off about anything when most of the examples to back that up have to deliberately be pulled from stories of brainwashing or where he’s for other reasons still acting OUT of character by the canon example’s own admission...while characteristics that entire iconic story arcs have HINGED upon go not only unacknowledged....but completely flipped?
You tell me.
#dick has his own opinions ppl#like#this is kinda 90% of his characterization#DISAGREEING WITH BRUCE
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Hello. Is there a chance that you know when the decision about Chuck beeing the villain of the entire show was made? And more specifically was season 9 written with this point of view?
Hi there! I’m sorry this has been sitting in my inbox for a few days, but I’ve been turning it over and over in my head trying to figure out how to actually answer. Because I don’t think this is something that was like the writers just suddenly decided, and began plotting everything else in the story around that fact, you know? And while it might be interesting to puzzle over, it doesn’t affect how I personally engage with the show.
I’ve written many times about the difference between a Watsonian Reading of a text versus a Doylist Reading of a text, and why sometimes understanding the Doylist might inform the watsonian read you’re willing to accept, so I can understand the interest in wondering if there was a moment in the writing room where it was declared that Chuck Was Not A Good Guy, and that the entire story should be told with that underlying assumption. For me, personally, it’s been clear since 4.18 that Chuck was not really a good guy, long before it was revealed that he was really God.
Was this always the intent of the writers? We just don’t know. I don’t think it matters. He always came across to me (ESPECIALLY in 5.22) as a self-important dick... but I know a lot of people really love his monologue on everything, and have always had rather warm feelings about it. So was their intent to make him seem smugly self-satisfied from the start, or is that an angle that later showrunners and writers seized upon and played up? Does it even matter when the story has made it clear now that Chuck has been the villain of the entire show from the start?
I understand how my personal opinion from the start here has probably made it easier for me to roll with the more recent canon revelations about Chuck than it would be for folks who have always believed that Chuck was a Good Guy from the start, that God would ultimately be on their side, or that if God wasn’t actively helping them, it was only because he was testing them or having them prove themselves to themselves or whatever. I understand people have clung to the notion that he was essentially still a good guy, even through all the shadiness. I just... could never see him that way.
ESPECIALLY after s11. I don’t think Chuck’s characterization has really changed since then. It’s just been... unmasked for what it really is. I think everything Chuck The Prophet was saying back in 4.18 about being a cruel and capricious god was... pretty on the nose. Then again, I’m fairly sure that Andrew Dabb took over the showrunning duties in mid-s11, and began setting up what he knew would eventually become the series endgame run, with Chuck as the final big bad. So that run up to the end of s11... was Dabb’s doing...
I don’t really know how much Chuck’s character (his fictional being, in addition to just... his personality, like how we’d talk about the character of real people, the quality of his essential being or whatever) played a part in the writing from 5.22 when he “vanished” through 10.05 when he appeared to tell Marie “not bad” at the end of her musical, and then again from that point until he dragged Metatron to the bar at the end of the universe in 11.20. I’m fairly certain that as soon as they began writing s11 and determined that Amara would be “God’s sister” that they knew that Chuck would have to make an appearance eventually. And the entire storyline of the MoC having been derailed and repurposed in mid s10 likely facilitated the escalation of the story. But again... I’ve written heckloads of stuff about s10, the accordion plot, how Carver had been writing toward a series finale in 10 until they got word they’d be renewed and wanted to keep going, and jerked the whole story onto a completely different narrative track in the back half of s10. As a seasonal arc, s10 will forever be my least favorite, because it’s just... a mess. Yes, even s6 comes across more coherent than s10, just looking at the overarching narrative structure. Episode wise, s10 probably wins for a few stellar entries, but yeeeeeesh, it’s a structural disaster overall.
But I have a tag for that, and lots and lots of posts, and Carver himself saying that this was exactly what happened there, so... I think it’s probably valid to say that the writers really hadn’t even thought much about Chuck until the MoC became about the Darkness in 10.23, and then they had to invent a whole mythology to bring in this super-powerful God-level power to the story, and “God’s sister!” sounded like a solid plan...
So I’d say that Chuck was being set up at that point to have to answer for his “original crime” of locking up the Darkness, you know? Though I don’t know how much of how it played out by the end of s11 was Carver’s doing, or Dabb’s. I am fairly certain that from the moment Dabb took over (quietly mid-s11, and possibly knowing he’d be tapped to take over before then and beginning to lay down tracks toward his eventual story plan, and then completely by 11.23) that what we’re seeing play out in s15 was always his intent.
But in s9? I don’t think Chuck was really even on any of the writers’ radar, at all. Even if they all were working from the perspective that he was God in the Supernatural universe. I just don’t think it affected what they were writing, you know?
Well, I mean, there’s earlier episodes where God was referenced... I mean 5.16 Dark Side of the Moon (hey, written by Dabb!) where we learned that God knew all about their problems, but he didn’t think it was HIS problem... I mean from that moment on, it’s really difficult to think of God as a charcacter who’s on their side, you know? And the end of the story he’d been content with was Sam in Hell for eternity, and Dean miserable in suburbia for eternity, and Cas probably being subjugated by Heaven and the Apocalypse starting again anyway... I mean... ew...
Or in 6.20, when Cas prayed to God, begging for a sign, begging for help, to do the right thing, he got NOTHING in return, zip, zilch. He did the only thing he could, and in retrospect, wasn’t releasing the leviathans something Chuck was probably deliriously happy about? More monsters and mayhem! A beloved hero character becoming the villain in the process! I mean, in s9 when Metatron was “Playing God” and trying to write his own story of the universe, isn’t this exactly the story he wanted to create too? Kinda on the nose there, even if they weren’t actively portraying Chuck himself as the bad guy here. They were explicitly telling us that Metatron was literally rewriting God’s playbook as self-insert fanfic.
So even if they weren’t actively writing Chuck as the big bad, they used Metatron-- the scribe of God-- to fulfill that function. In 11.20, when Chuck talks with Metatron about his turn playing God:
CHUCK: You know, you really are a terrific editor, Metatron.METATRON: (Chuckles.) Well, I was a terrible writer. A worse god. It's good I've got something going for me.CHUCK: (Takes off his glasses and stops typing.) Yeah, you know, I have to say, I didn't see the whole evil-turn thing coming.METATRON: Mm-hmm.
CHUCK: (Chuckling.) Why did you try to be me?METATRON: That was just a sad, pathetic cry for attention.CHUCK: (Chuckling.) Who's attention were you trying to get?METATRON: Yours.
He takes all of this and tries to turn it around, to deflect blame from himself as if he hadn’t literally done everything Metatron did, and more.
METATRON: It wasn't just the saps who were praying to you. The angels prayed, too. And so did I – every day.CHUCK: I know.METATRON: You want to sell the best-selling autobiography of all time? You explain to me – Tell me why you abandoned me. Us.CHUCK: Because you disappointed me. You all disappointed me.METATRON: (Stands up and looks at CHUCK with wet eyes.) No, look. I know I'm a disappointment, but you're wrong about humanity. They are your greatest creation because they're better than you are.(CHUCK starts to look more guilty as he looks at METATRON.)METATRON: Yeah, sure, they're weak and they cheat and steal and... destroy and disappoint. But they also give and create and they sing and dance and love. And above all, they never give up! But, you do!
But even after Metatron’s sacrifice, even after everything nearly falls apart, Chuck STILL tries to weasel out of responsibility for anything, still tries to deflect and minimize, even blames Amara for why he had to lock her away in the first place. And that hasn’t changed about him one whit, from the start right through the present. It’s always been an essential part of his character, and he’s been called out on it repeatedly in s15 by Becky, by Amara, by Sam, by Dean... probably by Michael, too. Like... this is how he’s always been, it’s how he’s always been written, even if the intent had never been to explicitly unmask him as the ultimate big bad of the entire series until the end of s11.
Like Amara accused him in 11.22:
Chuck: I'm sorry. For this, for everything.Amara: An apology at last. What's sorry to me? I spent millions of years crammed in that cage... alone... and afraid, wishing -- begging for death, because of you! And what was my crime, brother?!Chuck: The world needed to be born! And you wouldn't let me! Amara, you give me no choice.Amara: That's your story. Not mine. The real reason you banished me, why I couldn't be allowed to exist... you couldn't stand it. No, we were equals. We weren't great or powerful, because we stood only in relation to each other. You think you made the archangels to bring light? No. You made them to create lesser beings, to make you large, to make you Lord. It was ego! You wanted to be big!
and he admitted to Becky in 15.04:
CHUCK: Things were said. Uh… Now I’ve found msyself low on, um… resources. I went to ask my sister for help, and she rejected me. ‘Cause she sucks. And now I’m just… stuck. So, I thought I’d come see you, my number-one fan. And, I don’t know, see if you can help make me feel big again.BECKY: So, you want me to… fluff you?CHUCK: I mean, no.BECKY: You do. You thought you could just come back to me, your pathetic ex, your number-one fan, and get what you’ve always gotten from me… a nice big crank on your ego.
Meanwhile, in 11.22, Amara had asked him if he wouldn’t change, why should she? Yet... she DID change, beginning in 11.23 when she reconciled with Chuck. Only... he never did change at all.
So... to finally circle back to your question again... I don’t know if it’s relevant what the writers were thinking about Chuck and any random potential for him to return to the story in any capacity, let alone as God, let alone as the eventual Ultimate Series Big Bad back when they were writing s9. I don’t even think God/Chuck was on their radar at all, because I don’t think the entire MoC storyline was crafted with the end result that it would be the key to the Darkness’s prison. At least not way back in s9 when the MoC was dreamed up. It only ever evolved into that because of the narrative disaster of the s10 plot accordion. Which is why, while I fucking HATE s10 for it, I can’t be all that mad about what it unwittingly brought about, either.
Heck I hope any of this makes any sense whatsoever. This is one of those subjects that’s just like “insert key, wind mittens up, watch her go” :’D
#chuck's process#dabb vs cars#carver era#mittens makes peace with s10 via dabb's spitewriting of s12: an ongoing saga#Anonymous
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Swan Song
Type: Oneshot [Fluff/Angst?]
Summary: Aang comes home late on his birthday
Word count: 2721
Author’s note: Hey guys! I hope you’re doing well (if any of you are still active). I’m actually not sure what I’m doing here... I’ve left this fandom months ago. I still love Kataang and most of the fans and creators celebrating them, but as it always happens with me and ships, after a while i get bored with them, and this is what happened to me after an intense year of shipping. Maybe I’ll return some day (perhaps the live action remake will be able to reignate my love for this ship if it’s been portrayed properly? Time will tell). Until then I’ll remain inactive when it comes to posting, although I’ll still be using tumblr. I don’t just want to make a blank note where I say that you’ll probably never hear of me again, so I decided to end it on a high note, posting one story that I had written almost half a year ago and completely forgot about it. And I must say that I was pretty baffled when I read it earlier this day, because I’m actually pretty happy with most of it. There was supposed to be a smutty ending, but I never got to finish it. Although I think it works that way as well. I hope you’ll find some joy in it! It’s just as cheesy as most of my previous work xD
Special thanks go out to those people who really supported and helped me during my time of activity. People like @kristallioness who included me in some of her favourite writer’s lists (for which I still feel incredibly honoured!) and of course the only person I would consider a real friend on this platform, @azulamakesmeblank. It’s been nothing but a pleasure getting to know you over the last few months, and I hope we’ll stay in touch! But I got no real doubts there :)
Anyway, i promised a story, right? Here you go. Maybe I’ll be back one day, who knows? Until then, keep shipping and enjoy Kataang as much as you can! Signing off (for now) - atypicalkataangist/ Phil
It was almost midnight when he finally set foot on air temple island again. On the one hand he felt incredibly relieved that he made it back on time, on the other hand he regretted that he didn't make it back sooner. He knew she was waiting for him... at least He hoped though.
Today was his birthday, and she always loved to prepare sweet surprises for him. He was always telling her not to make such a big fuzz about a day like any other, but a part of him really loved her sweet, thoughtful gestures and surprises on his birthday, hoping they would never end.
He had been out working since sunrise, attending important meetings, planning festivities, talking and giving his advice to important people. Usually he liked his job, helping and advising people, taking responsibility for the safety and freedom of the many souls in republic city and beyond. But today was different.
Today he had just wanted to spend time with his wife, even more so since he had been very busy for the last weeks, spending almost no time with her at home anymore, and it made him feel very bad. She didn't deserve that. He loved her more than anything else in the entire world, he would give his own life for hers in a heartbeat. One or two years ago, when they got married, he never got tired of telling her how he felt about her, but now... He remained silent, and due to his work, he didn't even have much time to spend with her, and when he was at home, he was meditating most of the time.
He really missed her... When was the last time the two of them went on a vacation together? When was the last time they went out on a date like they used to do? Heck, when was the last time they had the nightlong, earth-shattering, sweat secreting, simply incredible kind of sex like they used to have? They were still having sex sometimes, but due to him being tired all the time and her not really being in the mood anymore, it was not at all what it used to be. They had been married for only two years now, not twenty! He wasn't ready to give up on his marriage yet like many married couples did after a few years. He would never give up on her for that matter.
He landed Appa in front of his cave at the northern coast of the island. The shed they had erected for him after building their home on the island had never been his prefered resting spot; He quickly found the spacious cave beneath the Avatar's home more comfortable and whenever said Avatar would go look for his bison the next morning after parking him into the shed, he would find him snooze peacefully in the cave, so by now he just let him sleep in the cave directly. With a pat on the bison's huge nose he wished him a good night, earning a tired grunt from the huge beast.
The Avatar slowly made his way up the stairs he once bent into the cliff himself, wandering around the island in the cool night air. His thoughts were by his wife, they always were. Hopefully she was still awake... Though no light in their home seemed to be lit.
With a soft creaking sound of the door, he entered their home, greeted by absolute silence and a faint glow whose source seemed to come from around the Corner of their living area on the opposite side of the hallway.
He slowly made his way to their living area, hoping to find his wife sitting, or maybe, if he truly came too late, sleeping on the couch, waiting for him. His hopes were disappointed though, she was not sitting there. Next to the lit candle on their short table however laid a piece of paper, with his name written on top in the beautiful, distinctive hand writing of his wife.
The sight of this made him nervous. He wouldn't be the first man left by his wife with only a short letter left behind. But she wouldn't do that, would she?
He picked up the letter, his nervousness causing him to jitter slightly. He unfolded the piece of paper and began to read.
"Hey, Sweetie. I hope you are reading this while this is still your birthday. In that case: Happy Birthday, my love. Although I would prefer to tell you in person... but I'm afraid you have to find me first. I've hidden a few letters around our home. The last one will lead you to me, hopefully still on time for your birthday. I promise I'll stay awake for you in my hiding place - I don't want the same thing as last year to happen. The first hint for the next letter and where to find me, is that I might be with a friend of yours. I'm sure you can figure it out.
All my love, Katara."
After scanning the lines two or three times with his eyes he folded the piece of paper again and put it back on the table, relieved that she has not run off and was indeed waiting for him. But why did she have to make a game out of it? He didn't have much of a choice, so he had to play her game.
He didn't need to think too much about where to find the second letter. They were completely alone on their Island, all his friends either living in republic city, or somewhere in the other nations. She had written that she hid the letters around their home, so it had to be one friend who lived with them on the island. And his only friend who shared his home with them apart from Appa was...
"Momo!", He called gladly upon entering the lemur's living area in the attic of the air temple's tower. "Buddy, I've missed you!" The lemur, who had been rolled up on a pillow before his friend entered, screached upon seeing him again, jumping at him and climbing up his head, his tail coiled around the Avatar's throat, tickling him with his fur. He petted the animal, who seemed to enjoy his master's attention, with a few loving strokes, before noticing a piece of paper rolled up next to the pillow on which Momo had been sleeping.
With his lemur still sitting on the top of his head, he rolled out the Letter after lighting a nearby candle with his firebending, allowing him to read what she had written. His heart began to beat harder as he began to read.
"Hi Aang, Congratulations for finding the second letter! It wasn't too hard, was it? I hope you used the opportunity to say hello to Momo again. It's weird, I haven't seen you play with him for months now... but I hope you were as happy to spend some time with him again as he was with you. He loves you. And you love him. If he could talk, he might ask why you don't have time for him anymore. And when you would say that you are really busy, giving your best to provide for your family and making the world a better place everyday, he would smile and he would tell you that it is okay. That you should keep doing what you're doing because it's what makes you happy.
It would hurt him, because he loves you. And your passion for helping people in need would only make him love you even more. But the more you would be away, helping people, the more he would love you and the more he would miss you.
Search for the third letter at the only place that is all yours.
I miss you, Aang.
Katara"
His stomach began to twist as he read the second half of the letter, his hand was shaking and his heart was pounding in his chest. Of course he realized what she tried to say. He felt anger. Anger and disappointment in himself. She wrote down how she felt. She wrote down explicitly that she felt neglected. And she had every reason to feel that way! Why did he do that to her? Did he get so much used to her looking out for him that he took her for granted? Is that what he had become already? A neglectful husband who leaves his wife alone everyday?
"I need to fix this..." He thought after carefully calming himself down again, blinking away a tear in his eye, "I need to tell her that she means everything to me."
He needed to find her first, though. The next letter was supposed to be at the only place on the island that was all his. That one was a bit harder... He couldn't think of one specific place. They shared the whole island, with no real 'private areas' for each one of them. The only place he could think of, was his meditation pavillon on the edge of the small cliff at the east side of the island. Although it was not per se only his place, he always went there just by himself to have some time alone, meditating.
He ran down to the entrance, across the yard in front of the house, passed the empty shed, and went along the small gravel path to the pavillon on the east side of the island. Coming closer, he already saw another piece of paper attached to one of the wooden columns of the pavillon drifting in the wind.
He took one deep breath before lighting another fire in his hand, beginning to read. Could it become even worse than before?
"My love,
sorry, I tricked a bit on that one. I know that we share this Island and that of course this isn't your exclusive place. The only one would probably be the spirit world, but... you see why it would be hard for me to leave a message there, right? So this was probably the next best thing.
It's weird. It's weird, that I feel jealous for a few wooden beams on a stone floor at the edge of the cliff. When I wake up and you're not lying next to me, the first thing I'm checking by having a look out of the window, is if you're meditating, and most of the time, you are.
Aang, I'm worried for you. It's not just that I wish that we could spend more time together, like we used to... You changed so much in such a short time. I don't mean that as a reproach, sweetie... I'm just wondering if you are okay. I'm worried when you remain silent, and I'm worried to see you seclude yourself more and more.
If you have something on your mind, Aang, please, for the love of spirits, talk to me, sweetie. Please. I am your wife. I have to know if something's not right... i promised not too long ago to forever be at your side, whatever may happen. So please, Aang. If you still love me, let me in. I beg you.
Come find the last letter at our bedroom. There is one final thing I have to tell you, and it'll either be our saving grace or the ending of our story. I'm really not sure anymore.
I only know that whatever will happen, I will always love you.
Katara"
His legs were shaking and he could barely hold up all the pain and anger that bubbled up in his chest. He had to stop reading and start over again and again, to finally reach the end of the letter. He needed to see her. He needed to apologize. He needed to take her in his arms. He needed her to support him.
He made his way back to the house, up the stairs, to their bedroom. there was a single piece of paper lying on their empty bed, with only two ligns written on it. He held his breath, lit one small fire in his hand. He needed to find her now.
"Look out of the window. We are waiting for you."
Before his brain had realized what happened, he had already checked the window and ran down the stairs. Did he think of start breathing again? He had no idea. His heart was racing, his stomach twisted even more, and his legs felt numb, though he couldn't stop running as fast as he could.
It felt like hours until he had finally reached her in the shed. He had seen a dim light glowing in the window of the shed all of the sudden as he looked out the window, so she had to be here.
When he entered, He was greeted by the glow of dozens of lit candles placed amongst mountains of hay that didn't seem to have an end in the back of the shed.
She sat on the exact opposite side on a roll of hay, her hands resting on her lap. She wore a light blue, quite simple, but beautiful nightgown, her long brown hair was open and combed behind her ear. She looked up into his eyes when she heard him enter. She smiled lovingly and got up, while he ran into her direction with a destined expression on his face.
"Aang.", she whispered, just as he reached her, raising her hand and resting it on his warm, sweaty cheek. "You're here."
He was shaking as he tried to lay his hands on his wife's neck to hold her.
"Katara...", he groaned, all the emotion inside of him, everything she had revealed him about herself about to break out any second now. "You... you... are pregnant?", he half asked, half stated while tearing up, causing her eyes to become wet as well.
She nodded carefully at first, then more decisively, still unsure what think of his overwhelmed expression. "Y...yes, sweetie. I'm pregnant." Tears began to roll down her cheek. "We...we're going to be parents, Aang..."
He breathed out for what felt like the first time in ten minutes, causing all of his emotions to flush out as well.
And then he grinned, grinned and laughed while tears of joy as well as tears of guilt for his absence in the past shot out his eyes. None of them could say another word before he took her in his arms and kissed her. He put all of himself into the kiss, all his pain, his guilt, as well as his boundless love for his wife and his unborn child. His legs gave in and he fell on his knees, taking her with him. They didn't stop the kiss. None of them could have if he or she had wanted to. They didn't kiss like man and wife in that Moment. The didn't even kiss like two lovers. They kissed like two souls who needed each other to survive. They both wanted to say so many things, but everything and so much more was said in that exact moment. They both felt that they needed each other.
After what felt like hours, their lips loosened, but their grip around each others back did not. They kept crying as they held their opposite firmly in their arms.
"I'm sorry", he sniveled, his face buried in her hair, "So, so sorry for keeping you out, Katara."
"I know.", she whispered into his ear, pressing herself against him. "It's okay, Aang. Now it's okay."
"I love you, Katara. I love you more than anything else. Now, more than ever, you are the most important thing of my life. I'm so scared, Katara... just so scared... and you are the only thing that can help me. I need you..."
She had seen him emotional many times up until now, but this was something new. It felt like he opened up his body, let go of all restraint and showed her his deepest, most intimate self, the very essence of his soul.
She kept him in his embrace, letting him feel that she was there for him, whispering calming, loving things into his ear. "I'm there for you.", she kept saying.
„I’m here for you.“
#fluff#angst#love#atla#avatar#kataang#aang x katara#katara x aang#last post (probably)#it's been a pleasure
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Getting inside Danny Williams’ brain, movie edition (“Partners” DVD extras)
For those of us who write fanfiction, one of the weird world-filling-in activities we sometimes have to do is try to come up with a comprehensive list of a character’s preferred leisure time activities. Sometimes they’ll give us hints on the show, but in most cases the show focuses far more on what they do at work than what they do during their off hours. Fanfiction, on the other hand, is often written about a character’s off hours, leaving us writers to gather clues and try to extrapolate from there.
Which is how I ended up having a very weird weekend trying to come up with a definitive list of movies I was certain Danny would really like. Because I honestly don’t think he’s a huge movie watcher (his go-to “crap there’s nothing on TV” option is usually sports of some kind) but he’s got too much movie knowledge not to appreciate the medium at least a little. Unlike Steve, Danny’s response to being forced through several different romance movies was to analyze them, deconstruct the various tropes, and learn to predict them in other movies. Casual viewers, in my experience, just don’t DO that.
Also, the one movie we know he loves, “Enemy Mine,” is a freakin’ classic.
The thing is, though, that it’s kind of a weird classic. For those who haven’t had the pleasure of experiencing the movie for themselves, “Enemy Mine” is a 1985 West German-American science fiction film starring Dennis Quaid and Louis Gossett, Jr. The two are pilots on opposite sides of an interstellar war, and they both crash land on the same planet. They hate each other, slowly become friends, and when Gossett’s character dies in childbirth (his species can reproduce all by themselves), Quaid’s character promises to take the kid back to Gossett’s home planet for a naming ceremony. He raises the kid for awhile, accidentally gets “rescued” and taken away from him, and steals a ship to get the kid back.
Unsurprisingly, the movie was a total box office bomb. That’s what tends to happen when a movie is really, really, good, but also completely fails to follow any conventional box office formula for success. If you boil it down to its bare essentials, “Enemy Mine” is about talking, aliens, and feelings. There’s a solid chunk of sci-fi fans who are fond of it, and count it AMONG their favorites, but it’s pretty rare for someone who isn’t a fan of sci-fi to like it. Let alone love it as much as Danny clearly does.
And Danny… there’s no way I’m buying a secret fondness for sci-fi. Someone in his life must have been a fan (I’m suspecting Matt, who I imagine must have been a big fan of escapism) but that man is so non-nerd he couldn’t casually come up with SUPERMAN when trying to put a name to his red-caped “costume” in the season 3 Halloween episode. I hadn’t even thought that was POSSIBLE. (He manages a reference much later in the series, but that’s after DC’s latest spate of movies. The marketing saturation was so dramatic at that point anyone who consumed even the most casual media couldn’t escape it).
Feelings, however… Danny’s a BIG fan of feelings. He was so openly moved when we saw him watch “Enemy Mine,” and he would ABSOLUTELY be one of those people who enjoyed sobbing over movies because he could never let himself cry in real life. Also, the man is a deeply emotional, deeply sentimental asshole, no matter how hard he tries to pretend he’s a tough guy. So if he’s going to seek out a movie on his own, it’s probably going to have to offer the same dialed-up-to-11 emotional catharsis that “Enemy Mine” does.
Also, he clearly doesn’t mind movies where the characters spend most of their time just talking to each other. Hell, he probably even loves it.
On that note, here’s a not-comprehensive-but-definitely-reliable list of some of Danny Williams’ most-watched movies, in no particular order.
Arrival
This one… Danny has to save this one for special occasions. The things the movie says about parenthood and consciously letting your heart get broken because of the sweetness along the way hits him right in the heart every single time, but there’s also a dead kid involved. Yes, she’s sort of at the edges, but we also get Amy Adams talking to her dead daughter in voiceover and it just wrecks Danny EVERY SINGLE TIME. Some of the things the movie says about choices and accepting pain also mess him up, but it touches on some deeper issues and he really doesn’t like to look at any of that too closely. It’s a beautiful, well-made movie (he WILL rant about how Adams deserved an Oscar for it), but sometimes he just can’t allow himself to get emotionally wrecked like that.
Steve only sort of understands why he gets so emotional over it. But every time they watch it together, he keeps his arms around Danny the entire time and doesn’t say a word about any tears he sees.
Beaches
Listen – I will physically fight anyone who tries to tell me this isn’t one of Clara Williams’ favorite movies. I am dead certain she watched this ALL THE TIME when Danny was growing up, and I’m sure he’s told several people that he suffered through it. But listen – lifelong friendship, massive weepiness, AND New Jersey? Danny loves this movie nearly as much as his mother does, and will absolutely watch it any time it happens to be on TV. He’s seen it so many times he can actually recite the lines of some of the big scenes along with the movie, but is careful not to let himself do that too often.
Steve absolutely teases him about this one, but if Grace catches him watching it she’ll sometimes sit down on the couch and watch it with him. Like her father, she also likes the movie far more than she’s willing to admit to, and is the one person Danny will actually let himself say the lines with (she does it with him). For the funeral scene and the bits after, Grace will inevitably get weepy and snuggle up close to her father.
Gifted
This one is just super obvious. In the movie, Chris Evans spends the entire movie figuring out how to raise his adorable super-gifted niece despite pressure from nearly everyone to give her up, and in between tries and fails to have some kind of dating life. It’s a celebration of the fathering spirit, and Danny relates HARD to it. It doesn’t get him as teary as some of the other ones, but there are enough emotional moments to leave him satisfied.
Up
Who DOESN’T cry during Carl and Ellie’s life together at the beginning of the movie? Danny found this one when Grace was still young enough that Disney made up a huge portion of her movie diet, but he’s stuck with it even though she hasn’t. He’s actually grown to like the movie more and more over the years, and what he hasn’t realized yet is because it’s really closely tied to the fact that he got dragged to Hawaii the year after the movie came out. The idea of a curmudgeon traveling to a hellish wilderness in the middle of nowhere and finding a family and new purpose in life when he gets there just started RESONATING with him for some reason, you know?
Bonus movie that Danny USED to watch all the time and now just can’t anymore: Ghost
Honestly, “Ghost” used to be one of his go-to movies. It’s got nearly the feels-per-minute ratio of “Beaches,” and is slightly less embarrassing for a grown man to be watching. Plus, Danny is a very intense, very specific kind of romantic, and the idea of a love that outlasted death appealed to him on a really fundamental level. Of course, he mentally classified as a fantasy, not so much because of the ghost as the idea that a married couple could actually love each other that much. But hey, who doesn’t enjoy a good fantasy now and then?
But after he and Steve got together… well, he’s TRIED to watch it in the years since. More than once, in fact. But it’s not long before he sees Patrick Swayze staying close to his wife, or trying to protect her from his murderous business partner, and thinking about how Steve would absolutely do that if he could manage it at all. Or he’ll see Demi Moore having such a tough time after her husband dies, and he can’t help but think about how destroyed he’d be if anything happened to Steve. If any of the close calls he’s had over the years were just a little bit closer. How easy it would be, even with Steve being more careful, for someone to shoot him one day.
Ever since then, he hasn’t ONCE managed to watch the movie all the way through. Eventually, he just stopped trying.
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“After the disappointment of the Andrew Garfield-led Amazing Spider-Man movies, everyone’s favorite wallcrawler has been having a renaissance. Entering the Marvel cinematic universe in 2016's Captain America: Civil War, the webslinger fully redeemed himself with well-crafted live-action film in Spider-Man: Homecoming.”
Yes...okay...that was definitely what Homecoming was....
“and a wildly successful spin-off film Venom, ”
I mean financially successful sure...
“In the midst of all his success, Spider-Man has quietly become one of the most inclusive and socially conscious superheroes of today.”
*raises eyebrow*
Okay...go on...
“Last week, it was announced that Spider-Man: Far From Home would feature two out transgender actors playing trans characters, the first big-budget superhero film to do so. Spider-Man: Homecoming also featured a queer character, as well as numerous people of color.”
Wait who was the queer character in Homecoming?
“It’s also worth mentioning that Spiderverse included a Jewish version of Peter Parker, who is typically portrayed as either secular or Christian.”
....ehhhhhhhhh....yes and no.
In media adaptations barring maybe one (the 1994 show cos I do not remember where he got married) Spider-Man is portrayed as...I guess secular but really it’s more that they just don’t say anything.
It’s not that the character is not a believer in a faith per se, especially if you go by older adaptations during times when hardly anyone was secular. It’s just that they, understandably, aren’t saying anything.
In the comics Peter is some kind of Christian but probably a Protestant (unless you go by Amazing Grace where he is an atheist but that’s hot trash we don’t talk about) but we don’t really talk about it that specifically.
We just know that he and his family celebrate Christmas and very, very occasionally Aunt May references going to church and that she, Peter and MJ believe in a monothetistic deity they refer to as ‘God’.
And really apart from the Church thing there is no clue to Peter’s religion and Marvel probably (wisely) would rather keep it that way. He even got married in a civil ceremony!
However in the SUBTEXT...he’s Jewish. And it’s basically an open secret that he is and always has been Jewish.
“The Spider-Man video game also featured a wonderful easter egg for queer fans by having a giant rainbow flag, as well as several smaller ones, scattered around the game’s fictionalized New York City map. ”
I mean that’s wonderful but I wouldn’t call that an Easter Egg so much as...it’s just what you’d find in modern NYC.
“Even the Venom film got in on the fun, with fans shipping Tom Hardy’s Eddie Brock and the titular male alien-symbiote after the two kissed in the film. Sony even encouraged the pairing, releasing a romantic comedy-esque trailer for the film to promote the home release. While some complained of queer-baiting, most felt that it was all in good fun and included queer people in on the joke, instead of making us the target.”
Again, good for them but I don’t think that was the movie actively trying to be positive towards queer people.
Brock and Venom kissed when Venom was bonded to Brock’s ex-fiance and had a pronounced female form, being an adaptation of a character literally called She-Venom.
And it was based upon a script written in the 1990s so really it was more the movie did it and then people took it as a thing that was shipping Venom and Brock (even though Venom is sexless). Brock and the symbiote have been shipped numerous times in the comics but the subtext has always been that the symbiote, if any sex, is female. In the Spec cartoon it is referred to as Symbi (a pun on Cyndi) and in the Spider-Girl comics it is marked out as female (granted this happens after it’s bonded to a woman).
And again, headcanon away but like...that probably wasn’t intentional at all Sony were just being goofy or unintionally made something people took a certain way.
“Indeed, even in the comics, Spider-Man has always been a fairly inclusive hero. Miles Morales was introduced in the early-2000s, taking over the mantel from Peter Parker for several years. ”
Okay, this is so weird for me to be correcting such a praising point but lets really look at this.
First of all Miles didn’t take over Peter’s role for several years he did it permanently.
Second of all Miles is from 2011 so that’s not the early 2000s, that’s the early 2010s, but okay maybe that was a typo.
Third of all, is it really all that logical to say this franchise that began in 1962 has always been fairly inclusive and then cite a character from 2011 as proof of this? Wouldn’t examples from during the FIRST quarter century have been more apt?
Fourth of all...eh. Has Spider-Man been fairly inclusive from the start? Yes, no, its complicated.
Look there were exactly 0 LGBTQ+ characters in Spider-Man until maybe the 1990s and even then I couldn’t off my head tell you who they were. Felicia Hardy is bisexual but we didn’t find out until the 2000s and it was most prominent in an AU. Really the most significant LGBTQ+ character who’s had the fact that they are queer be more than a one off reference was Max Modell and he debuted 2011 and IIRC wasn’t established as queer until 2012. In defence of Spider-Man the Comics Code literally FORBID any character be anything other than straight until the 1990s and even then it was relatively rare, even in X-Men which you’d think it wouldn’t be.
If we’re talking POC again this one is a bit complicated Glori Grant, Joe Robertson, Randy Robertson are frequently appearing POC characters but not in every run and they aren’t usually as prominent as like Jameson, Aunt May, Harry Osborn, MJ, etc. Characters of other ethnicities are even less frequent and I don’t even know what we should make of Puma/Thomas Fireheart. I mean A for effort, they wanted a Native American character who wasn’t really a villain and wasn’t exactly a sterotype so there is that I guess.
Again though...most other Marvel franchises decade by decade weren’t much better with this and we should give credit where credit is due to the same guy who created Black Panther writing a nuanced scene where 2 black people in the 60s separated by age discuss different approaches to civil rights with neither being proven right or wrong.
When it comes to disabled people, outside of evil insane villains, forget it, there is nothing before Flash Thompson in 2008 unless you count Aunt May’s chronically poor health.
“Spider-Gwen quickly became one of the highest-selling female superhero comics. Spider-Woman was a prominently featured bisexual character, and the female Asian-American hero Silk also had LGBT supporting characters, Rafferty and Lola, who were in a healthy relationship. Additionally, many view vampire villain Morbius, who is getting a spin-off film starring Jared Leto next year, as a metaphor for those suffering during the HIV crisis of the '80s. ”
Again...Spider-Gwen and Silk are 2010s characters so that’s not ‘always fairly inclusive’.
I don’t even know if Jessica Drew is bisexual, I’ve never heard that but I don’t think she is.
Morbius as a metaphor for HIV...MIGHT be true if we are specifically talking about his 1990s solo-book which I’ve never read. But the character as originally created 100% was never about that because he was created in the 1970s before HIV was known about.
“Unlike his Marvel counterparts Thor, Iron Man and Captain America, Spider-Man’s world has accurately reflected real world diversity for years.”
....Not really.
I’m not even saying Spidey maybe haven’t been comparatively better at it than those guys but he’s deffo not been accurate.
Plus to be fair to the other guys, Captain America and Iron Man have had at least one major black supporting cast member and in Cap’s case he was fairly candid about social strife and issues.
And with Thor it’s not that fair to throw shade at him for not reflecting the real world given that 90% of this characters and stories are literally pulled from fantasy and myth. I don’t even know if there are any queer figures in Norse myth let alone poc.
“While it’s a seemingly simple idea that any of us can be a superhero, it’s sadly still a radical concept in a endlessly growing film genre that has predominetly centers straight cisgender white men. ”
Well that’s mostly because the comics the movies adapt are about those types of people.
“That is because relatability and inclusion has always been core to Spider-Man’s appeal and message. It’s why the late Stan Lee decided that, unlike other superheroes who expose parts of their faces, Spider-Man had to wear a full-face mask.”
Stan Lee only speculated that that was part of Spider-Man’s appeal, he never had any input on that design choice it was all Steve Ditko...who frankly was unlikely to have been thinking about that...
“Even further, Spider-Man isn’t the king of a country, a billionaire, a woman out of a Greek myth, or a brilliant scientist. He’s just an average high-school kid from Brooklyn who always strives to do the right thing even while struggling to balance his everyday life and hiding a secret identity.”
WHOA there buddy...Spider-Man isn’t routinely ‘a kid’ nor is he from Brooklyn.
MILES is from Brooklyn but Peter, as evidenced by that great big caption in Captain America: Civil War, is from QUEENS.
“And it’s the idea of balancing a secret identity with everyday life that has always allowed Spider-Man to connect with queer audiences long before comic writers were allowed to explicitly include LGBT characters.”
...I’m not denying this necesarrilly but whilst i’ve heard stories from poc who connected with Spider-Man I’ve never heard this about LGBTQ+ fans of Spider-Man.
“Indeed, perhaps the strongest part of Spider-Man’s inclusivity is the subtlety to which it has been done. While Black Panther, Black Lightning, and Wonder Woman rightly put issues of identity front and center, Spider-Man’s quiet diversity allows audiences who typically cry “SJWs are ruining my favorite characters” to actually see diversity showcased without it being overt.”
Errrrrrr...sure....*represses memories of when Miles Morales was first announced*
Lets um...wait and see what happens when those trans characters show up in the movie this year okay.
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22/11
I was tagged by @joyful-soul-collector (thank you this is possibly one of my favourite tag games) ... Okay also also before I could finish this up, @hyba also tagged me so uh it’s 22/11 instead, ty ty. You two might want to check the tag list cause uhhh you might be there who knows not me c:
The rules are: Answer the 11 (22 this time but hush) questions, make up your own 11 and then tag... I think it’s 11 people but I don’t know 11 people who I haven’t already tagged so...
I sort of started spamming pictures to answer a question so I’m gonna... put the pictures under the cut.
1. Have any of your OCs ever stolen something? What did they steal, and why? Oh yeah sure - the first one I can think of easily is Cain. He used to live on the streets so had to steal to survive. But he’d also work for money. He’s not heartless, just desperate.
Also now I’m thinking about it, Tag would definitely be the kind of guy to just... hey I know I’m meant to hand this gear in but... no-one will miss it so.... he steals to amuse himself with the gadgets he gets.
2. Did you ever have imaginary friends as a kid? What were they like? I copied my sister in having pretend animal friends, but not really. Who needs imaginary friends when you have real-life ones lol I was a lot more liked as a kid.
3. Do any of your OCs have a favorite article of clothing? Why is it their favorite?
Uhhhh
Um.
Yeah, you could say that.
Andy likes his hoodie because it’s a thing that is only his. He didn’t get it from Murdock, I honestly don’t know WHERE he got it from, but it’s his, and the fact he owns anything means a lot to him.
Cain likes his because it’s one of the few things left over from when he was younger and again, it’s his. He didn’t steal it. It belongs to Only Him. He feels comfortable in it.
4. What do you fist develop about a character when you make one up? Do you think of their appearance first? Their personality? Their backstory?
Honestly? It depends. Backstory always comes after, but personality and appearance often intersect. I know for WIP 3 I thought of personality and traits first, and for Collateral it was appearance first. I think for Sonder it was more.. their role in the story? ‘Oh hey this is the antagonist, this is the protagonist, this is the love interest wait I hate romance, okay, side kick’ etc
5. Fluff or Angst?
If it’s not romantic? Fluff. I made myself angsty enough when I was younger, I want more happiness in my life.
6. Remember the color of that dress that everyone was debating about however many years ago? The one that was blue and black, or white and gold? What colors did you see?
The correct colours.
7. Pick your bubbliest, happiest OC. Now tell me what will make them turn into your worst nightmare. I wanna see what makes them the angriest.
Oh boy, let’s see uhhh... Tag. Tag from WIP 3 who is undergoing the process of a name change.
Seeing someone he loves die would twist him. Being isolated would eventually break him. Being unable to do what he loves would definitely upset him also.
Also idk if you’ve heard about it but in his world, there’s a nifty ability called being a silvertongue and I know at least one silvertongue is not gonna exploit this but I also know of another who would even on this19-year-old kid so maybe it’s not by choice but that could make him a nightmare. Just sayin’
8. Now pick your angstiest, most emo OC. And tell me what would make them blush and giggle like an idiot. I wanna see what makes them the happiest.
Okay for this one it’s a tie I write a lot of angsty characters.
>Andy - seeing something just. Really funny. Oh did Sam just fall over in a ridiculous way? Fantastic. That’s actually how they first have a proper conversation. Sam falls over, he laughs, they talk.
>Cain - anything awesome that Duck does. Oh hey what’s up Goose oh you drew this radical picture? /tearing up/ it’s so great oh my gosh you’re so talented. That’s more being happy than giggling but can you see Cain giggling? No, me neither.
9. If you could have any mythical creature for a pet, what would it be?
Dragon, next question.
10. What’s your go-to thing for when you’re hungry but don’t have time/energy to cook something?
Fruit! It is! Very good! And tasty! Apples have a good cronch! Oranges are mmmm juicy. Banana? Yes nice thank you. Oh wow we have strawberries? What a sweet treat. Also healthy!
11. Do any of your OCs have scars? Would they be confident enough to show them in public (like at the beach)?
Oh yeah sure man. Andy’s got multiple from... ‘training’. He doesn't show them off. Cain, Duck and Theo have all been badly burnt on the arms, and Cain ‘’shows it off’’ just because it makes him uncomfortable to have his arms covered. And uh Raya probably has some sort of scar on her knees or elbow from rollerblading. Because you do fall over and it does scar.
And now for Hyba’s questions, lez go bois
1. What cultural value do you see in writing/reading/storytelling/etc.?
I think that without storytelling specifically, humans would be so... mundane? We’d be no different to any other animal on the planet. Creating anything, be that stories or art or literally anything is so... human. To take that away would be like taking away humanities soul. The cultural value isn’t really measurable - storytelling makes up the culture.
2. Do you try more to be original or to deliver to readers what they want?
Honestly, I have no idea. I try to entertain myself, and if other people like it too, then that’s neat. But because I’m writing for myself, I anticipate everything, so I don’t know if it’s original or not. I know it delivers what I want! But is that readers want? Who knows!
3. As a writer, what would you choose as your mascot/avatar/spirit animal?
Crow. Not even as a writer, just... dude crows are so damn cool.
4. What do you think most characterizes your writing?
I’m not quite sure about the phrasing so uhhhh represents? Google is telling me ‘describes’.
In which case, a midnight fever jolting you out of bed, moments before you could fall asleep, and puppeting you to a writing surface so you can splurge ideas onto it sounds about right. 66% of my WIPs have elements in them that were based on dreams.
5. How do you select the names of your characters?
Mostly? Spite. ‘Oh Trade, you can’t have a bad guy named Andy, all Andy’s are good’ NOPE NOT ANYMORE SUCK IT. I also have a friend who is really good at coming up with names that fit the exact mood of the character so I go to her a lot. Sometimes they’re puns.
6. Choose one of your OCs (or more). How would they want to be seen by others?
Sam from Sonder wants to be seen as someone people can talk to, but also someone who pursues a science because yes sociology is a science to her, shut up, don’t talk to me if you’re going to mention the words ‘paradigm’ or ‘objective’ thank you.
7. How do you find or make time to write? Are you consistent or do you write whenever you get the chance?
Hahahahahhahha.
In the past few months, I’ve not been writing because I’ve had exams. Before that, I wrote at every chance I had - being a student, I had a fair bit of free time during the day, so I’d use that to write. But for a while, it was a nothing on the ‘what has Trade written recently’ chart.
Going up again boiiis
8. What does literary success look like to you? Is it important for you as a writer?
Literary success? That’s... a very interesting question. I think I’d be satisfied and feel successful if one person told me that my book helped them through something.
Jokes on me, I’ve already had that, my books helped me, I have already succeeded, see you losers in hell.
Also fanart but uh who needs fanart when you draw enough for five armies?
9. Are there any scenes that you’ve had to edit out of your WIPs? Can you tell us about them if they don’t spoil the book?
YES oh lord yes okay so in Sonder, chapter 15, I decided around draft 2 that I wanted a scene where Atlas got drunk. I made up reasons for it, asked lots of friends about what it was like to be drunk (as I personally have never been drunk), attended parties to get first-hand research and did so much preparation.
Wrote the scene, was pleased with it, left it to fester. Two years and two drafts later (now), I’ve come back and realised oh hey that scene is utterly useless and de-rails the plot. Time to remove it I guess.
I rationalise it as ‘well you wrote it and you had fun but it’s not needed, move on’ and that works well for me.
10. Would you feel comfortable publishing or sharing your writing using your real name, or would you prefer a pseudonym?
Pseudonym 100%. As cool as it would be to be able to go ‘hey I wrote this’ to people, the terrifying ordeal of being known is horrific, and people being able to track all my past activity from when I was literally seven is my worst nightmare. I wouldn’t even tell family or friends if I could get away with it.
‘Hey [real name], there’s a book at Waterstones called Sonder? With the exact same characters, plot and writing style as you have? But it’s under [pseudonym]?’ ‘oh hey, really that’s wild. Anyway,’
11. When writing, do you try more to be original or do you prefer to deliver to readers what they want? Do you think that a book can do both? Which is more important to you as a writer?
Oh hey, this is like question two but MORE. Standing by my previous answer, I think a book can do both - people want a happy ending, usually, but you can always be original in how you do that. No two stories can be told in exactly the same way. And hey - even if people do guess what’s coming up, that’s good.
As a writer? It’s most important to entertain. I don’t try and catch people out, I just deliver the story I have in my head and then edit it mercilessly until I’m pleased.
Questions!
1) Design a mask for an OC to wear. Would it cover their whole face? Is it a mascarade mask? Is it fancy or simple? Bonus cool kid points if you draw it.
2) Which OCs like spicy food?
3) Which OCs can take care of a plant - an orchid, to be exact?
4) Do you tell stories in any other medium beyond writing? eg: art or roleplay or...?
5) Do you have any irl items that you have because ‘oh dude this is something that’d totally be in my story’? Can I see them?
6) What’s the first book you remember buying?
7) Do you have any weird collections of things? As an example, I have a skull collection and a collection of... what’s best described as doll body parts. Anything just... weird that you have a lot of? Can I see it?
8) Which OC gets distracted by watching birds and which OC is like ‘dude stop watching the birds we’ve got STUFF TO DO’
9) Have you ever met a published author? Who?
10) Are you a person who likes tea or are you a person who prefers coffee? If the latter - dude c’mon tea is so much better smh
11) Have you backed up your files recently? Do it now. Please, for the love of god, back up your files.
Tagging!
@hyba @joyful-soul-collector (dunno if I’m allowed to tag the people who tagged me but fukkit here’s some more questions you eggs) @kaatiba @albatris @timetravelingpigeon @note-katha (hi we have barely interacted but nice new username) @nymph-of-diana (on your main if you want, idm c:) @writing-and-nutmeg @futurity-writing @osteoprecocious and @thatfizzyyyy
Honestly, the fact I made it to 11 is - wowza. Uhhh if you don’t want to then don’t, if you do want to then PLEASE do and then tag me so I can see your answers, I’m curious.
Ciao.
#writing#am writing#my writing#writerblr#writeblr#tagged in#Wow this went on#but seriously this is possibly my favourite tag game#coming up with questions is hard but#hey piece of advice#put stuff you love into the questions#I like masks for example#so#questions about masks lezgo
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...let’s do this...
“Dan Slott’s decade-long tenure on writing Spider-Man recently came to an end, swapping the prolific writer out with former Captain America/Secret Empire scribe Nick Spencer. The first issue of his and artist Ryan Ottley’s much hyped run, Amazing Spider-Man #1, took Peter Parker back to the basics. The hero has lost Parker Industries, is under investigation for academic fraud, was fired from the Daily Bugle, and other New York heroes hate him because they think he’s buddy-buddy with Kingpin of Crime turned New York mayor, Wilson Fisk.”
First of all Peter lost Parker Industries during Slott’s run so i dunno why this ‘article’ is framing things as though that is a development from Spencer’s run.
Second of all heroes hate Spidey because Kingpin made it look as though they were friends, its not as though Spider-Man really was friend with Fisk as this article frames it.
“The issue ends with the two kissing and Peter declaring that this is “their story,” emphatically saying what the suspicions have been for some time: the new run of Amazing Spider-Man will begin to undue the events of the controversial “One More” and “Brand New Day” storylines that Slott became infamous for, which saw Mephisto destroy Peter and MJ’s marriage in exchange for bringing Aunt May back to life.”
*pinches bridge of nose* ohmygodohmygodohmygod.
Okay so...Dan Slott WASN’T RESPONSIBLE FOR OMD OR BND!
M**********r Wikipedia could have told you that! HOW?! HOW do you not know that Joe Quesada wrote OMD!
HOW do you not know this piece of comic book osmosis that everyone knows! My God!
Furthermore aunt May didn’t effing die in OMD. That was literally the point. They mad ethe deal to SAVE her from death. Not undo it!
I know people who’ve not even read the story and THEY know that!
Also Dan Slott became infamous but it had nada to do with OMD but other stuff.
Also also the story hasn’t shown or promised to undo anything yet but clickbait gotta clickbait.
Also, also, also UNDO ISN’T SPELT THAT WAY!
Holy fuck how do you write for the front page of the biggest comic book news site, get paid for it and not spell check shit?!
“And like those now infamous wedding issues for Batman and��X-Men, the move to bring Peter and MJ back together doesn’t really work. There are couples who’ve gotten back together after a time apart, but the issue itself piles so much misfortune on Peter’s doorstep it feels like Peter should be looking into a therapist or anxiety medicine instead of making out with his ex.”
-Is what someone who’s never read Spider-Man would say.
Like Peter went though a lot of bad stuff in ASM volume 5 #1 but:
a) Asshole please, this is nowhere near the worst most stressful or therepy worthy shit Peter has lived through. Supporting his sickly recently widowed mother figure financially whilst going to school, getting bullied, having a crappy boss, dealing with an unreasonable girlfriend and ALSO fighting crime in a city that feared and hated him for no reason. THAT is anxiety and that is also known as the start of Spider-Man’s entire story you fucking hacks!
b) So when you’ve had an awful day and everything has fallen apart getting TLC from someone you deeply love and who deeply loves you...doesn’t make sense. Okay sure.
c) Justin Carter where the fuck did you learn how to read subtext? Shit, nevermind the subtext, where did you learn to read the text bro! The story spells it out for you. Peter’s life is bad, he keeps making the same mistakes again, he wants things to change to be better. So he steps up to the plate and puts the effort in to MAKE it better, specifically by chasing the thing he wants most, the thing he’s yearned for and literally dreamed about (as CLEARLY SHOWN on the first effing pages!). He reunited with the love of his life. For the fuck is that something that DOESN’T work!
d) Exempting the X-Men wedding the Batman wedding issue in my observation totally worked from a characterization pov even if it wasn’t the result fans wanted to deserved.
“Peter and MJ Are A coulee Again! And It's The Wrong Move...”
It isn’t the wrong move and I see no reason why anyone should take this article’s claims that is is seriously when it can’t even spell the word couple!
“Like all relationships, the ones between superheroes and their non-powered partners are full of drama. In the decade since their split, Peter and MJ had many relationships that provided what neither could offer the other at the time. MJ got to date men who were reliable and had the stability that Peter couldn’t entirely provide, and Peter was with those who were more accustomed to or in the line of superheroic work as he.”
Go fuck yourself CBR seriously.
Let’s start with Peter. What in the flying fuck is this shallow, Celebrity gossip rag, juvenile, simplistic, unlearned horseshit of a mentality towards superhero relationships over the last several years that has the absolute biggest hard on ever for the idea that heroes have to date heroes.
Especially Spider-Man.
Whenever the mere idea of Spider-Man dating another hero crops up that is literally the ONLY thing people talk about.
They have so much in common because they are both heroes.
Well shit...why doesn’t he date literally any of the women in the multiple Avengers teams he was a member of. No Carol Danvers doesn’t count, it was one date.
I’ll tell you why.
Because if any of these jackasses knew what the fuck they were talking about with Spider-Man’s character, both in terms of who he is as a person and the entire concept behind him, they’d know that civilian women are both his preference and more in line with the idea of him as a hero who could be you.
YOU in the real world do not date goddam superheroes. You date normal people. Therefore Spider-Man also dates normal people.
‘But what about Black Cat’, I hear you cry out.
Yeah Felicia let’s talk about her for a second shall we.
Felicia, the cat burglar costumed criminal. The one who tried to trick her boyfriend into a life of crime literally the issue after they hooked up.
Felicia, the woman who recoiled upon seeing Spider-Man’s real face.
Felicia the woman who lied and went behind Spider-Man’s back to get super powers that literally caused him cosmic bad luck even after they broke up.
Felicia, the woman who jeapodized Peter’s secret identity multiple times.
Felicia, the woman who literally got in bed with a mercenary (in every sense of the word) in order to frame Spider-Man for murder by seducing him.
Felicia the one and only girlfriend Peter had before he got married who was a fellow costumed person...and she was literally named after something that brings you bad luck.
It’s ALMOST like it was doomed to fail from the start.
It’s ALMOST like it was intended that way.
It’s ALMOST like it was a great big subtextual commentary about how Spider-Man is better off with normal non-costumed women.
Oh...but if only there was some kind of page or panel clearly spelling out the idea that Felicia the costumed person was wrong for Spider-Man but someone else, someone normal, someone rooted in the real world with all it’s relatable problems and activities, was right for him...
...if only...
And if only the comic book run most guilty of shipping Spider-Man with a costumed person post-OMD which was initiated by a hack writer had itself a page or panel spelling out that Spider-Man dating costumed people because they ‘get’ his lifestyle more doesn’t mean jack shit, showcasing even they recognize it to be a stupid shortsighted attitude to Spider shipping.
IF.ONLY!
Let’s move onto Mary Jane.
MJ dated exactly 2 men during the decade after OMD. Bobbi Carr and Pedro the fireman who was literally a poc fireman version of Peter.
Reliable and stable huh?
Tell me how exactly is the life of a rising A-list movie star ‘reliable’ or ‘stable’...even aside from the fact that he was a drug addict?
Tell me how exactly is the life of a firefighter whom would be rushing off whilst on duty and risking his life A LOT be stable for poor Mary Jane’s anxieties over his safety?
What? Reliable is steady job+regular hours?
That’s what Peter couldn’t provide so this reconciliation is bad?
...Didn’t Mary jane literally WORK for goddam Tony Stark, the globe/galaxy trotting superhero Avenger leader who went into a coma then disappeared?????????
And she took that job by effing choice? AFTER breaking up with Pedro the fireman?
How much ‘reliable stability’ does she really want or need?
Because assholes MJ dated and was married to Spider-Man for fucking years. And she liked it. Are we just IGNORING that?
Like assholes that wasn’t even the thing that they broke up over. MJ didn’t break up with Spider-Man in OMIT because he was unreliable and didn’t provide stability. She accepted that. She accepted that shit even in the nuclear levels OOC flashback sequences to their aborted wedding.
She broke up with him because it endangered her family. THAT was the rationale. THEN she got back with him in Superior. THEN she broke up with him at the end because she wanted normalcy but then she literally said pages later that she’ll never get it because she lived in NYC and because guys like the Goblin wouldn’t care if she was dating Peter or not. THEN she threw away normalcy by working for Iron Man FFS. THEN in Red Goblin she claimed she couldn’t be with him because I don’t even know, some bullshit about feeling guilty that she was keeping him away from being a hero.
So the stable reliability argument holds no goddam water to her pre or post OMD characterizations.
Basically the above paragraph boils down to:
“Peter and MJ getting back together is bad because they dated people who could offer them the stuff that neither could offer the other, even though there is nothing indicating either wanted that stuff in the first place.”
“Not all of these relationships were perfect, but they were signs of real change, something that isn’t typically allowed in big two superhero comics, or at least, not in any lasting, meaningful way.”
No they weren’t. They were signs of Marvel putting the characters on rotation because they axed the ACTUAL meaningful change that was the pair getting married and committing to a longterm permanent relationship that lasted 20 years.
Hence why literally none of these relationships had ANY lasting impact upon either character.
MJ was unchanged by Bobbi Carr dating her beyond it prompting her to return to NYC, i.e. return to her old status quo.
Peter was unchanged by Carlie Cooper, Liaeean Teaaen, Mockingbird and Silk. I mean my God this article bangs on about how Mockingbird was so important because she provided something Peter otherwise couldn’t get from MJ but the seires literally handwaves away their relationship. They don’t even get a major break up scene or issue. It’s just. “We broke up, brief flashback. That was it.”
“The last couple of times that Peter and MJ broke off their romantic relationship — after that one time Doc Ock jacked Peter’s body for over a year — it was because she didn’t want his, frankly, ridiculous life as a superhero to define hers.”
The article says the last couple of times they broke it off then lists one example because what is counting.
And as I said that was NOT the reason they broke up after superior. Hell they didn’t even really break up that time. Otto broke up with MJ in Superior ‘2, then she called him up to break up with him many issues later then she went to Peter when he got his body back to give a break up speech to someone she wasn’t even dating!
“More, she didn’t want to keep risking the danger the comes from being close to a superhero.”
And then she went to work for an even more famous superhero who didn’t even have a secret identity and who have much more powerful enemies many of whom would’ve targeted him even if they didn’t know he was Iron Man..before re-entering his friendship group in from Power Play onwards thus rendering her entire rationale for breaking away moot....not that it made any sense to begin with.
“If anything, his life has become even more crazy since their split, since his teacher is the Lizard and he’s a roommate with Boomerang.”
The Lizard was his teacher in the silver and bronze age too you goddam hacks and having a villain for a roommate is NOT crazier than your body being stolen by a villain for God’s sake.
“Both of those situations are going to end pretty badly, and that’s coming just before the “Spidergeddon” event that’ll bring together the Spider-heroes of the multiverse yet again in a fight for survival against evil vampires.”
I didn’t know CBR could see the future and also apparently knows that despite all current evidence to the contrary that Spencer would be doing a tie-into Spider-Geddon.
“Fans of Peter and Mary Jane as a couple aren’t exactly hard up for a comic about their exploits. The Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows series may be set in a new universe, but it’s been quietly operating as a book for the two to be happy together. Not only do they have a daughter in that universe by way of Annie Parker, the three of them are a crimefighting family where Annie is Spiderling, and MJ gained powers of her own and became Spinneret. ”
STFU CBR.
a) EVERYONE knew RYV had a limited shelf life
b) RYV is about Peter and MJ are a superhero family, which is a cool concept but also not what a lot, probably even most Spider-Marriage fans want to see. They want to see Spider-Man with a non-powered MJ in the main 616 universe because that is the original real versions of the characters and that dynamic is innate to the inherent concept of Spider-Man as a relatively realistic guy
c) RYV places a lot of focus upon Annie, probably more than on Peter or MJ, especially after the time skip
d) NOBODY who loved RYV was going to simply accept it as a suitable substitute for 616 Spider-Man and MJ not being together. Because as much as we love RYV Peter and MJ those are not THE characters. The specifics of each version of each character carry different emotional investments for the readers. And Marvel knows this hence why they didn’t permanently replace the 616 Spider-Man with Miles Morales, just the other Peter Parker Spider-Man who sold less and had been around for a mere 10 years. It is also the reason why Spider Marriage fans didn’t just say “Oh well at least I still have Peter and MJ in USM and Spider-Girl’ after OMD
“Even if Renew ends and is considered no longer needed, it’s provided the most logical endgame with the best outcome one could think of. Doing that all over again in the 616 universe comes across as redundant and the only thing it really does is reduce the amount of Spider books on the market.”
This one is a real headscratcher.
RYV is not the logical endgame because MJ with powers is not the logical conclusion. Merely ONE conclusion.
FFS RYV isn’t even the same as Spider-Girl despite the premises being similar.
You can take the same broad ideas and do them suitably differently.
Like I dunno exploring the inner dynamics and ups and downs of a couple who do not have a kid?
Focussing mostly upon that as opposed to the kid and all three of them working out how to fight crime together.
Not to mention from this point to even get to RYV (even pre-time skip RYV) would take effing years. Peter and MJ just got back together but it’s a write off because we’ve already seen Peter and MJ with an 8 year old kid so fuck following the trajectory that might get us there?
What kind of nonsense is that?
CBR nonsense, that’s what.
Just like the ‘it will reduce the amount of books on the market’.
Well fuck dude we used to have FOUR Spider-Man books every goddam month about literally the same version of Spider-Man. then 10 years later we had 1 book about Marvel Adventures Spidey, 1 about a high school Spidey, 1 about Mary Jane, then 3 about an adult married Spider-Man.
I THINK we can be okay with a Spider-Man who’s dating or married to a normal woman and another one where he is married to a super powered version of that woman and they are raising their teenage super powered daughter FFS.
And even if we do unfortunately lose Renew Your Vows the argument of ‘we’d be losing a Spider book’ doesn’t even hold up THAT much because...WE ALREADY HAVE TOO MANY SPIDER BOOKS!
Amazing Spider-Man TWICE a month.
Spectacular Spider-Man
Miles Morales
Spider-Gwen
Venom
Scarlet Spider
And soon to come
Spider-Geddon
Spider Force
Spider-Girls
Yet more bullshit I’m sure.
Like I don’t want to lose RYV but dear God we’ve already got TOO MANY Spider books as is.
“And it may have been better for them both to just stay friends, or at least not jump into getting together again so amazingly fast.”
10 years isn’t amazingly fast bro.
So to sum up this article is hot trash that utterly failed to justify it’s own stupid title.
Or maybe it just chronically misspelled it’s own title. Who effing knows. But burn it with fire either way.
#amazing spider-man#feature#Spider-Man#cbr#Comic Book Resources#mjwatsonedit#mary jane watson#Mary Jane Watson Parker#one more day#dan slott#nick spencer#Black Cat#Mockingbird#Bobbi Morse#Felicia Hardy#Superior Spider-Man#spider-man renew your vows#Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows
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