#but like. I'm answering these between reading and posting 50 shades

[bookwyrminspiration]

and supplemental dude wait i just read your tags in more detail (i am going through your response bit by bit) and once again i do not mind at all!! the loss of language and culture is a thing that happens everywhere it could happen to anyone. and it's, i don't want to say horrific because we're like still alive and vibing and just being people but, painful to have lost so much of it? i kind of grew up pretty surrounded by people who speak khmer and chinese and it's comforting to me even though i don't understand the majority of it beyond some little words here and there, and even if i learned now it's just like. it wouldn't be the same as if i had grown up speaking it, or gotten taught by my family? you know? and then also an embarrassment at having to learn this late and being bad at it (oh to be a baby and able to just walk and say "gwah" to people) etc etc it's HARD. it's RIDICULOUS is what it is. i don't like to stew in it haha it's just this palm-sized piece of grief in me over not being able to understand anything. one day though if either of us remember my dad is going to teach me khmer. because he wants us to get the dad jokes

YEAH!! You get it!! We are still here living and enjoying our lives, like we're not a walking breathing tragedy only containing grief, but there is grief there. Even though we're perfectly fine people. There is horrible tragedy alongside that; they coexist.

I also grew up and live around a lot of people who speak Spanish (large hispanic population percentage wise), and every time I find my attention caught. I just listen like "can I understand them? can I follow?" And usually the answer is disjointedly, but I still love hearing it. And am always so thrilled for the little kids alongside their parents who can understand them and who are going to grow up with the language. Though sometimes it opens up that palm-sized piece of grief and I can't help fervently wishing that could've been me. And what internal battles I wouldn't be waging with myself today if only

Because yeah!! I know I shouldn't be embarrassed and that it happens and I'm not alone, but it can feel so embarrassing to have to learn it late on my own. Babies are all expected to be bad and learning, but at our ages there are some people who are perfectly fluent and some people (me) who are very behind and it's like!! I want to catch up I want to be where you are but I have to struggle through all this unfamiliarity and confusion and mistakes first. And it sucks! The guilt over not speaking what should've been your mother tongue...rip my heart out why don't you. Which could've been entirely avoided if only reasons entirely outside of my control hadn't happened! And no matter how hard I work the fact is still that I had to teach myself and didn't grow up with it...I don't dream in Spanish (babel reference)

I don't like to stew in it either, because I can't do anything about my situation or how I grew up so it just. Hurts. There's just this ache. Maybe one day I'll get over it but I kinda suspect it'll always hurt a little.

I hope your dad teaches you and you can get the dad jokes--no, I don't hope, it will happen, I have faith that you will get that :)

[logansargeantsbabymom]

Lonely Christmas

Lando Norris x Fem!Reader

summary: Lando and Y/N decide that they want to play a prank on their fans and the rest of the grid by hinting at breaking up over X (twitter)

warnings: Cursing & “Cheating”

F1 Masterlist

Follow my instagram account (THATS STRICTLY FOR THIS BLOG) for updates on when i post and fun stuff like that!

instagram

“hey babe, I have an idea.” I said with a smirk as I plopped myself on the bed next to my Formula 1 race winner boyfriend, Lando Norris.

“Oh no, this doesn’t sound good” Lando says chuckling as he props himself on his elbow to get a better view of me, before leaning down pressing a quick kiss to my lips

“mm, I think we should prank your fans and the grid.” I said with the biggest smile I’ve ever smiled in my life.

“and how do you suppose we do that, hmm?” Lando said, his eyes flickering between my eyes and my lips.

Sitting up and criss cross apple sauce, I stare into his soul “I think we should stage a twitter breakup,” I searched his face for some type of answer

“What? Is this a way of telling me you want to breakup without telling me you want to breakup?” He looks kinda hurt, which quickly prompts me to swing my legs over his body so i’m sitting on his lower torso.

“Absolutely not baby! i love you beyond the galaxy. I just think this would be funny,” i plead but Lando looks unsure “I’ll tell you what to say and all !”

“fine, but only if you let me eat you out, BUT you have to sit on my face” Lando knows I’m insecure about my weight and crushing him to death.

“oh! fine!!” I say plopping right off his body and landing on the bed with a huff. “so i’m gonna tweet something to indicate that we’re breaking up but not actually saying anything”

“and how are you gonna do that-” I quickly interrupt him

“make me cry” i say nonchalantly

“what?” Lando’s face reads 50 shades of Stunned “no, I promised you and your family that the one thing i’d NEVER do to you is make you cry.”

Hearing Lando admit that means the world to me, but i need him to stop being nice and make me cry. It doesn’t take much for me to cry and since Lando doesn’t want to make me cry, I’ll resort to the next best thing: thinking of my (very much alive) dog die.

Just a few seconds of thinking of my (breed/dog) die, the tears well up in my eyes and I let out a choked sob, before whipping my phone out and taking a picture before posting it on twitter with the caption

"nobody wants a lonely Christmas but I'm about to call it quits with you. Breaking up is at the top of my wishlist and baby you don't have a clue."

I flip my phone to show Lando with a smirk plastered on my face. "So, what'd ya think?" I question as I post it and wait a few seconds before twitter starts going absolutely nuts. " wait wait let me read you some of the comments I'm getting, 'slut4ln' says 'NO MOM AND DAD PLEASE STOP FIGHTING' haha look, here's another 'mother/n' said 'mother always knows wtf is up, Lando Norris count your days' !!" the chuckles leaving my lips are loud

"I think that I don't know how to respond to that on twitter," Lando says with a faint chuckle "here, how about you take my phone, type out what you want me to say and then let me read it before posting it." a smirk evident on his face as he hands me his phone, before putting said hand on my thigh, rubbing it up and down.

"What about this...?" I question as I'm typing

"You say our relationships fading and you've been thinking bout leaving and though I know it's the truth I just don't want to believe it. You've gotta be kidding me, are we really breaking up? We just picked out a tree, damn."

"Okay Y/N/N lets give it a second to spread, we have to get juicy comments before we keep going, oh. never mind. George is texting me asking me what the fuck I did and why am I arguing twitter about it"

"fuck it, ignore him. we need to make this believable." I say swiping George's message away. "Opinion on this?"

"wait wait, let me tweet something else before you tweet y/n/n. Here, read this"

"You haven't even left yet and I miss you. I was looking forward to the holidays with you. How could you do this on Christmas, girl that's so malicious? C'mon baby, please don't make me beg cause I can go and date your friend instead. Yeah, I'll put the nut in meg. But If you're thinking about leaving, then I already blew it. screw it, then I guess I'll have to beat you to it, bitch."

"OKAYYYY LANDOOOO LET ME STEP UP MY GAME!!!" I scream as I finished reading his reply after he hit tweet bouncing up and down on the bed in excitement.

"okay, okay what about this for me?" I question as I finish typing, turning my phone so Lando can read what I typed.

"I tell you I love you but I don't really mean it, cause after this Christmas sorry but I'm leaving you."

"I'm starting to feel like you're just soft launching a break up with us right now" Lando says "Why else would you gave suggested a fake twitter break up?"

"Baby, please. This is just for shits and giggles. AHH OH MY GOSH!! OSCAR'S CALLING ME" I screamed in panic as I declined the call. "Lando, I think you need to eat me up in the twitter beef again, put your pretty head to work and think of some insults for me."

"I'm almost done, but first I got a question. Why is it one week before Christmas you feel the need to mention a break up with me is in the process but still pending? Is it depending on your gift and what I'm spending? Or are you fishing for more compliments? Because to my astonishment, you're acting like little kid. Was it something I said?Sometimes my head stops thinking, when I say some stupid shit to you, you know I don't mean it, it's just the season, it's confusing, can we just get along?"

"LANDO MY COMMENTS ARE GOING CRAZYYYY! LOOK" I giggle in excitement as I flip my phone so he can scroll through the comments

slut4ln: MOM AND DAD PLEASE STOP! CHRISTMAS IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER AND I CAN'T DEAL WITH A DIVORCE RN

georgeswhore: I wake up from a nap to SEE THESE?!?!?!?!

leclercsgf: What the absolute fuck did they fight about that THEYRE BEEFING ON TWITTER FOR AND AIRING OUT A POTENTIAL BREAKUP???

>y/nforpresident: potential? honey I think they are done

Landoslefttoe: Lando kinda ate mom up though 😭😭

LewisHamilton: Answer your fucking phones now!

CharlesLeclerc: LANDO?? YOU CALL YOUR GIRLFRIEND "BITCH"??

CarlosSainz: Cabron, call me asap and fill me in

LoganSargeant: Does this mean I actually have a chance with Y/n?

"I'm choosing to ignore Logan's comment," Lando said flipping my phone back so I could read it. "When are we gonna go public and say it was a prank?" Lando asks as he readjusts himself on the bed, pulling me down and closer to him so we're cuddling

"We can tell them all tomorrow" I yawn as I cuddle closer to my boyfriend "goodnight handsome"

"Goodnight precious" lando whispers as he kisses my temple

<333333

idk what this is but 🎀😗

@luckyladycreator2 @itsmiamalfoy @jeffs77 @ilivbullyingjeongin @forevercaffeinated-lee @daemyratwst @gulphulp @callsignwidow @f1wintermoon13 @teenwolf01 @victoriassecret101.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSesvRpKqBaYY-Ow5IgHoD0gSX6OzJ03qGMXOhHUI6Xg1wfKaA/viewform.

[cinderella-ish]

Fruits Basket Ao3 Media Tags Poll Results, and Some Thoughts on Ao3 Fandom Tag Wrangling

Over the past few weeks, I've put out a few polls to find out how other Ao3 users are using the different Fruits Basket media tags. Here are the results!

(Obligatory disclaimer that a tumblr poll by one user with fewer than 50 followers is hardly scientific data)

For writers, it looks like most of us (52.6%, or 10 out of 19 respondents) are tagging more than one media type every time, and an additional 10.5% are sometimes tagging multiple media types (total of 63.1%, or 12 out of 19). 31.6%, or 6 out of 19, are only tagging one media type. I believe the person who selected "other" hasn't posted Fruits Basket work yet, but indicated they'd be likely to tag all three.

Of note: even though far more works are tagged with the manga tag than either anime, including when I excluded crossovers, the 2019 anime had the most works updated since January 1 of this year excluding crossovers at 25 (vs 4 for the 2001 anime, and 12 for the manga).

For readers, it looks like most of us (46.4%, or 13 out of 28) are filtering by relationship or character. (Sometimes I think I must be the only person who will read fics for any relationship or character if the premise is interesting!) For those who search using media tags, the manga tag is by far the most used at 17.9%, or 5 out of 28.

Then, 50%, or 14 out of 28 readers don't expect anything different between the three media tags. And that number raises to 78.6%, or 22 out of 28, if you include people who only expect minor differences between content found at each of the three tags.

So, why did I do these polls (and what are my thoughts on how these tags should be wrangled)? More info below the cut!

At some point between when I joined Ao3 and now, the tag "Fruits Basket" went from being a metatag that contained all 3 Fruits Basket media to being made a synonym of the manga.

In practical terms, what this meant for me was that I could no longer sort or filter all Fruits Basket works at once. I would instead have to go to all three media tags separately, and would have to repeat searches for all three media tags if I was looking for a specific trope. Additionally, I didn't actually realize this change until a couple of months after it occurred. I almost missed one of my now-favorite fics because of this change!

Worse still, it means that when I filter out crossovers, any works that are tagged with more than one Fruits Basket media are considered as "crossovers." If I want to filter out actual crossovers, it needs to be done by manually clicking all other fandoms under the "exclude" option.

So, I sent a support ticket to Ao3 asking them to either reverse this change, or add a similar "All Media Types" sort of tag.

They responded after about 12 days, letting me know that the Archive is no longer creating "All Media Types" tags, and is actually dismantling them where possible. The goal is for users to be able to find what they're looking for, and to avoid confusion, which apparently "All Media Types" tags can cause, both for creators and browsing users. They pointed out that searching by relationship or character would allow me to see all works across media tags with those characters (although this doesn't solve my problem).

(Note: no shade to this Ao3 volunteer - I'm not upset at this answer, and they were only communicating Archive policy and were very professional and gave me good and important info!)

Anyway, this confused me, so I sat with it for a bit. I did some searches of the Ao3 blog, the Reddit and Tumblr, and some tag wrangler's Tumblrs where they talk about tag wrangling, but couldn't find anything about dismantling "All Media Types" metatags. So, I decided to get some data. Hence, the polls.

Other than my continued surprise at how many people search by relationship (multishipper problems...), the polls basically aligned with what I expected. So, if I'm using the tags in a similar way to most other users, this can't be the best way for these tags to exist.

I sent a followup request outlining some of what I shared here, then decided to browse Ao3 fandoms outside of Fruits Basket to see how other fandom tags, especially anime/manga fandom tags, were generally canonized.

On the Fandoms page, several "All Media Types" tags are present (Star Wars, Les Mis, Newsies, Batman, and Captain America, to name a few). Additionally, several "& Related Fandoms" tags are also present.

But this might not be a fair comparison. Star Wars has had movies, TV shows, comics, novels, video games, audio novels, radio adaptations, theme park rides, and more. A broad metatag makes sense for that fandom.

Or maybe the Archive just hasn't dismantled those "All Media Types" tags yet?

So, what about other anime and manga? Well, several (including the extremely popular BNHA and Naruto, as well as the shoujo that's always being compared to Furuba, OHSHC) are canonized as (Anime & Manga). Some (like Haikyuu!! and AoT) are canonized so both the manga and the anime are synonyms to the overarching fandom name.

And what about a manga that had two adaptations? Well, Fullmetal Alchemist has an "All Media Types" tag, which acts as a catchall for the 2003 anime, the live action, Bluebird's Illusion (which is apparently a fan-made game?), and a single tag combining the manga and Brotherhood.

So then, I did another search for information on how the Archive is handling "All Media Types" tags.

That search led me to a Tumblr post on tag wrangling guidelines from way back in 2013. Obviously, that post was out of date, but it led me to a handful of other posts, and eventually to the tag wrangling guidelines on the Ao3 website.

I actually didn't know the wrangling guidelines were publicly available before this, so this was exciting! After some brief searching, I was able to find some relevant policies:

Wrangling Guidelines - Metatags still mentioned "All Media Types" metatags in their guidelines, so perhaps those guidelines are out of date? Or instead, they're for those exceptions where "All Media Types" tags make sense?

That page led me to Wrangling Guidelines - Fandoms, which was MUCH more informative.

Under "Base Rules" > "Shared & Similar Names/Multiple Media" > "General Disambiguation Suffixes" it says:

General Disambiguation Suffixes are a legacy disambiguation format and last-resort disambiguation options for fandom tags that could not be easily separated into specific media. Fandoms disambiguated in these ways are no longer being created and are being removed where possible.

General Disambiguation Suffixes includes "All Media Types," "& Related Fandoms," and "Ambiguous Fandom."

Under "Fandoms With Multiple Media" it says:

Existing "All Media Types" tags may have new subtags added beneath them, but should no longer be created. The different existing media tags can be made into subtags under this metatag, as they are added to the Archive. There is no need to make an "All Media Types" metatag just to connect fandoms. Such fandoms can simply sit separately.

Bleh. I guess my hopes have been dashed.

...

But wait!

Under "Anime and Manga" > "Disambiguation Between Manga, Manhwa, Manhua, & Anime" it says:

Anime and manga fandoms should be canonised separately as much as possible. For fandoms where the completed manga and anime canons overlap enough to be considered one unified canon, or the user-made works do not specify whether they are for the anime or the manga, the disambig may be (Anime & Manga), with the terms in alphabetical order.

If canons do not overlap and users make tags for the separate canons, disambiguate with (Anime), (Manga), (Manhwa), or (Manhua).

For this second quote, IT USES FRUITS BASKET AS THE EXAMPLE.

So, I guess the tag wrangler(s) for Fruits Basket consider the manga and the (unspecified which) anime to... not overlap? Or not overlap enough? Again, this confuses me. The 2019 anime covered all of canon and only had extremely minor changes, and those were mostly done just to make it work better in animation instead of print. The 2001 anime only covered the first third or so of the story and had some bigger changes, but nothing outside the realm of what a fan might change in a fanwork for the manga.

So, what do I think would be the best outcome for the Fruits Basket media tags on Ao3?

When I think about it, I could see people who had only seen the 2001 anime benefiting from being able to search only for works relating to the 2001 anime. And I could see people who have read the manga/seen the 2019 anime being annoyed if the major changes of the 2001 anime were referenced on works tagged to the manga/2019 anime. But I can't really see that happening between the manga and the 2019 anime. Those changes were so minute, I doubt they'd be relevant most of the time.

So, with the caveat that I'm only one user, and I don't know for sure if my opinion is the one held by most users in the Fruits Basket fandom, here are some potential solutions that would work for me & (I believe) for most users in the Fruits Basket fandom:

bring back "Fruits Basket" as a metatag for all 3 media types, or

make the manga tag synonymous with the 2019 anime, with the new canonical reading [Fruits Basket (Anime 2019 & Manga)], and make the 2001 anime a subtag of that new combined tag, or

make both anime tags subtags of the manga tag

Anyway, if you wanted to know what I've been doing instead of writing over the past few weeks, this is it. 😅 I'd really love to hear what you think of my proposed solutions, and if the change caused problems for you as it did for me, or if it actually made things easier.

Info about another tag wrangling issue for Fruits Basket coming soon in a separate (much shorter!) post!

[the-conversation-pod]

Summer 2023 Lagniappe

We made it to the end of the season, folks! Time for all of the extra discussions that just didn't fit into the structure of the season. Nini and Ben are both from the Caribbean and share the word "lagniappe" which means "a little extra" (kinda like a baker's dozen).

This time we've got quite a few things to discuss, and we also have our first guest! Ben's best friend David joins us for the Season Wrap-Up conversation.

We're going to answer some questions from @ctl-yuejie and @mynameisnotthepoint.

Nini caught up on My Only 12 Percent, Roommates of Poongduck 304, and She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat.

We unpack the eldritch horror that was The Shipper. We will not be discussing it ever again.

We discuss the execution of polyamory in Me, My Husband, and My Husband's Boyfriend.

We then hang out with David and discuss genre history, favorite actors, flops-and-trends, and award our Girl, You Tried award for this season.

Finally, we look ahead to the fall!

Listen on Apple Podcasts!

Listen on Google Podcasts!

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

0:00 - Welcome 1:15 - Intro 3:14 - Talk Nice to Us 3:36 - How Did We Get into QL, and How Has the Podcast Changed Us? 9:10 - How Does Criticism and Commentary Change Your Viewing Experience? 13:11 - Catch Up Corner 13:59 - My Only 12 Percent 22:52 - Roommates of Poongduck 304 26:14 - She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat 30:09 - The Shipper 59:46 - Next Watches 1:02:33 - Me, My Husband, and My Husband’s Boyfriend 1:15:53 - Spring Roundup 1:16:40 - David Introduction and BL Background 1:18:50 - David’s History with Queer Cinema 1:20:59 - David’s Favorite BL Actors 1:23:24 - David’s Thoughts on the Spring Shows 1:26:15 - Somewhat Forgettable Shows 1:29:25 - Favorite Actor Pairs 1:36:49 - The Changing Nature of BLs 1:39:34 - Girl, You Tried 1:46:56 - Looking Ahead 1:57:44 - Outro

The Conversation: Now With Transcripts!

We received an accessibility request to include transcripts for the podcast. We are working with @ginnymoonbeam on providing the transcripts and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes. When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

0:00 - Welcome

Nini

Hello, hello! Your QL fandom aunty and uncle are here with giant sunglasses, brown liquor in a flask, a folded five-dollar bill to slip into your hand when no one is looking, lukewarm takes, occasional rides on the discourse, deep dives into artistry and the industry.

Ben

Lots of simping! I’m Ben.

Nini

I’m Nini.

Ben

And this is The Conversation. About once a season, we plan to swan in and shoot the shit on faves, flops, and trends that we’ve been noticing in the BL, GL, or QL Industry. Between seasons, you can find us typing way too many words on Tumblr.

1:15 - Intro

David

Hey, guys. My name is Dave. I'm your new favorite BL B-Asterisk-T-C-H and I'm here to introduce Nini and Ben—who don't really need any introduction, but I'm an extra bitch. So that's why I'm here. They're giving out awards. There's shadin’ shows. They're uplifting some shows, but mostly shade. So, welcome, tune in, have fun, and I'll see you guys in the episode. It's gonna be a lot of me, so be prepared, like, it's a lot. 

Bye, guys!

Nini

We have our first guest on the show—not for the last time, because we had so much fun with David. David's going to be back. 

Ben, what are we talking about? This is the lagniappe.

Ben

So, the lagniappe, as always, is going to be the bits that just didn't fit into the format of the other episodes thematically or in a way that we thought was necessarily interesting. So, we also figured out that Spotify has a question and answer tool and a commenting section, so please use it. We're having a lot of fun with it. 

We're going to answer some questions from some friends of ours—one old, one new. We're going to talk about Nini catching up when She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat, Roommates of Poongduck 304, as well as My Only 12 Percent. Nini and I are going to stare into the abyss and scream about the eldritch horror that was The Shipper. We're gonna promise you all some things for the future. We're gonna talk about a very complicated show in Me, My Husband, and My Husband's Boyfriend. And then finally, with David’s very specific presence here, we're going to unpack the entire spring season and generally qiqi for a bit.

Nini

It's delightful. Y'all are going to have a lot of fun see see you in the episode.

3:14 - Talk Nice to Us

Ben

On to the Talk Nice to Us section! Some of you lovely listeners—we still have not figured out what we wanna call you; please chime in and let us know—has sent us a couple of questions, one from an old friend of mine on Tumblr, and one from a new friend of the show. 

Nini, please take us into the questions.

3:36 - How Did We Get into QL, and How Has the Podcast Changed Us?

Nini

Ok, so the first question is from @ctl-yuejie, and they write, “I am curious how and why you two started watching QL, what your first impressions were, and how they might have changed over time and after starting a podcast about it?” 

So, Ben, how would you answer that question?

Ben

As a known homosexual and amateur cinenophile, [Nini laughs] I was bored and stressed with the Western Queer Cinema when I discovered BL. SOTUS comes out in…2016. I was desperate for a fresh infusion of queer cinema. There was a huge dearth of content happening in the 2010s. 

I really like queer stories, and I really like queer people getting to have fun and have a good time, and one of the things that stood out about SOTUS that felt fresh at the time was how forthright Kongpob was. I also liked that it was giving a commentary on its own society at the time, and I was basically hooked on QL from that point on. 

One, there was just a whole lot more of it—even with the small amount of content we had in 2016, 2017, 2018—there was more time spent with those shows than like all of the queer movies I watched in that year from the West. 

That's why I'm here, and then I met Nini, and she was like, “I want to talk about the shows and I want to do a podcast.” And I was like, “Well let's not think about it. Let's just do it.” 

Now we're here. What about you?

Nini

We talked about some of this stuff in our very first intro episode. I have been around fandom for a really long time. I have been familiar with the concept of BL. Sometime around the end of 2020 or beginning of 2021, some edit of I Told Sunset About You showed up on my YouTube, and I was desperate to find it. Back then it wasn't easily findable. And so, in trying to find it, I cycled through Life: Senjou no Bokura, Gaya Sa Pelikula, and Where Your Eyes Linger before I found I Told Sunset About You finally. 

So I got here at the beginning of 2021, and I just started devouring what I could find. And then, yeah, met Ben on the Tumblrs, and I said to Ben, “Hey, Ben, you write nice about things. I want to do a podcast because I want to do deep dives into some of this stuff.” And Ben said “Bet” and here we are. 

In terms of how my impressions of QL have changed over time and after starting this podcast, I am…familiar with the rhythms of some of this media now, and so things that probably would have irked me at the beginning don't irk me anymore or I enjoy them. I think I watch the shows differently now. When I'm watching I'm always thinking about, “Oh, I wonder what Ben's gonna say about this?” Which is fun! ‘Cause usually I am spot on.

How about you, Ben? How have your thoughts about BL, QL, GL, and fandom changed since starting the podcast?

Ben

One of the useful bits about the podcast versus say…blogging and essay writing is…the conversation itself forces me to think differently about the shows. Like I don't come into the podcast recordings with a bunch of, like, scripts written out for what I want to talk about. I sometimes give us questions to focus on that I think will get us into the meat of what that particular project was trying to dig into. But it's talking with each other and then it's the discussions with other people that really elevate the entire experience for me. 

I think what I've enjoyed the most about the podcast is…I feel like the shows are not one and done anymore. I feel like I'm exiting the very sort of masculine style of fandom engagement—which is mostly watching, memorizing, cataloging—and I'm very much enjoying the transformative part…of fandom where we talk about the shows, unpack them. I find myself being significantly more engaged than I was previously, and it makes me a little more picky about what I watch. 

Like, if I know I'm not going to talk about the show with you I'm far more likely to just dismiss the show.

Nini

It's true. There are some times where just like, “Ugh, God. I mean, if Ben's gonna watch this I guess I'm gonna have to watch it, too.” Doing the show has been really great from that regard in that I have watched things that I would have originally dismissed because of Ben— sometimes I don't love them. But most of the time when Ben says “you should watch this” I find it really worthy. 

9:10 - How Does Criticism and Commentary Change Your Viewing Experience?

@mynameisnotthepoint writes, ”How is your balance with consuming a piece of media and consuming the meta around it? Have you had it happen that the meta around it—reading up on things—completely changed your mind on a series?” 

Ben, has reading meta ever changed your mind about something that you watched?

Ben

The simple answer is yes; the complex answer is no. 

None of us are immune to receiving new inputs from other people, and people read things differently from me. I do find value in other people's perspectives. I like understanding where people are writing from. But it's very rare that somebody saw something in a show that was so groundbreaking that I also didn't see it in the first place. The big beats of the story are rarely something that I missed while participating along the way. We're all pretty smart, and the shows are rarely trying to trick us. So, it's very rare that, like, somebody's like, “Aha! It was the butler in the kitchen with the candlestick!” and I'm like, “How did you predict that?”

Nini

How I prefer to engage with the meta doesn't lead a lot of the time to me changing my mind about a show, but it has happened that I have been…persuaded not out of my particular read but more into seeing another read as valid. In my head I can hold two ideas, so I can be like, “Well this thing, I read it this way. This person read it that way.” I think both of those things can be happening at the same time. I don't feel like my read is exclusive to every other read. 

It's fun to talk to people about these things. I'm with Ben. A lot of the enjoyment in these shows other than watching some of the shows themselves—not all—is in talking to people about the shows and finding out what where their perspectives are coming from and seeing where our perspectives intersect, and where they might run parallel, and where they might conflict, but then how that conflict may not be a conflict at all. It's the twisty intellectual side of things that I really enjoy, and then also just the emotional side—having those conversations, getting to know people through their experience of media and my experience of media. I find that incredibly fun and rewarding. It's one of the reasons that I do the podcast with Ben. 

For me, the answer is yes sometimes my mind is changed by meta, but more often than not my thinking is expanded—not changed—by taking in meta.

Ben

Expand is a good way to describe it. I do think most shows that are good benefit from really invested people with the ability to communicate their thoughts sharing them determinedly week in week out. I'm a big fan of meta, basically. 

Keep writing! If you listen to us, keep writing!

We don't get to make friends with people if you guys are just lurking! Please write! Write on tumblr. Write on your blogs. Write to us. Whatever you do, just keep writing! We want to hear what you're thinking about the shows.

13:11 - Catch Up Corner

Nini

This is the Spring Catch Up Corner. We've got a doozy of one for you guys to round out the end of this but we're going to start with a few things that I caught up on in the spring mostly because Ben would not shut up about them.

Ben

[laughs] It's true though!

Nini

So in the spring I watched She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat (in Japanese: Tsukuritai Onna to Tabetai Onna), then Roommates of Poongduck 304, and My Only 12 Percent. Since Ben is breaking up with New this season I'm going to start with My Only 12 Percent.

13:59 - My Only 12 Percent

Ben

Okay I thought we were going to have fun first with, like, She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat. It's like directly into My Only 12 Percent! “And another thing! Smack!”

Nini

We always go from worst to first, but we're ending this particular catchup with the worst because of what it is. 

Ben

Man…[sighs]

Nini

I'm just gonna go with My Only 12 Percent. We don't I think need to do like the reminder to everybody about what My Only 12 Percent is because we've talked about it in the VIIB Awards. You all should go back and listen to that episode—I'm not exactly sure which episode it is but I will probably put it in the show description. 

So. I looked at it I watched it…[Nini sighs, Ben laughs]…and—okay, I'm gonna be real real with you, okay?

Ben

Okay.

Nini

I cannot say that I liked My Only 12 Percent. But I also cannot say that I disliked My Only 12 Percent.

There were moments, there were moments to My Only 12 Percent that I did like, but, like, the first two-thirds of the show I just found incredibly frustrating. I am not really a Cooheart fan as an actor. Actually, let me take that back.

Ben

Yeah, that's right, you better correct yourself.

Nini

I think Cooheart is talented. I would like to see him work with somebody else, because he has only worked with New, and I think he and New bring out the worst in each other in the director-actor relationship. I think that occasionally they reach certain heights but I think that working together, they lean into some old techniques, they lean on things that they're accustomed to doing with each other and it doesn't work for me. 

One of the things I would like to see Cooheart do is play older and New always has him play younger, and in this particularly he plays really young. And it's the effect of it is unsettling for me even when they age him up a little bit. I can’t slide away from the acting he was doing earlier in the show when he was playing like 15-16 and it's just it's hard for me to recalibrate once they age him up. 

The things I do like about the show. I like how Cake and Eiw were just—they were just like that the whole time from like the day they were born, I guess. Like, the first day that they were ever put in a crib together they were just like that. I mean everybody else more or less knew what it was and how they felt about each other, but nobody forced them to figure it out or forced them to explain it or anything like that. They just let them figure it out for themselves. I liked the realization part of things. I did like that scene where Eiw is watching Love of Siam—which is something else that I have to put on my catch up list—and you see the moment when he understands something about himself. I, too, I'm a person who has light bulb moments watching media. 

So, I am a fan of characters who work things out by having, like, a media moment. I like that the two of them were just always connected and they figured out for themselves how they felt. I liked the fight that they had in episode 12 when everything sort of comes to a head because Eiw knows how he feels. Cake knows how he feels, but neither of them is really talking to each other about it. They're just trying to fall back into their old patterns without laying on the table what the feelings are. And, of course, it becomes an issue and they have a fight about it because Cake is jealous. This is the kind of jealousy I like, where things are unsettled and one character is like I cannot hold in anymore how I feel. I am upset about this thing that you're doing, or this person that you're talking to, and the reason for that is because I feel this way about you. And the other character is like, “Well, fucking finally!” 

So I did like their fight. I thought that Cooheart was very good in their fight. I liked Santa and his connection with him in the fight. I always like to see a good fight between the two main characters when something has been building up for a while. It was really good. 

One of the other scenes that was really good was their first time scene. The way that it happened was very gentle. It was very matter of fact, almost. It wasn't like a big planned romantic thing. It just kind of happened because they were just there and vibing. I like that. But this show felt like New [Ben laughs] and not in the good way. 

Ben

There It is.

Nini

It felt like classic New Siwaj! It felt like New Siwaj doing Make It Right. It felt like New Siwaj in the parts of Until We Meet Again that piss me off. 

There's, like, a lot of minutiae. Stuff that's happening around the characters that's not really important to the narrative or the character building. It's just a bunch of stuff that's happening and he just insists on showing it in detail. There's way too many side characters. They drag out the main story, like it takes 12 episodes—12 of 14 episodes—for Cake and Eiw to get to the point where they can even have the conversation. And then there's, like, some weird blushing maiden shit which I never like. 

And then the thing that New always does which is that the last minute brings out some left field bullshit out of nowhere, that has absolutely no relation to anything else, and just kind of stops sorry dead in his tracks. In this instance, it's Eiw’s mom is dying randomly all of a sudden because their dad used to smoke when he lived with them. Their dad hasn't lived with them for like—what over a decade? So their mom has third hand smoke cancer. It's just out of nowhere. I can't understand why it's there. 

So basically I didn't dislike it but I didn't like the show either. If I had to give it a score I would probably give it…a 6. It's okay. 

Ben

Harsh. [laughs]

Nini

It's New Siwaj on his New Siwaj bullshit. That's gonna be a 6 for me.

Ben

Well, I'm glad you at least humored me and watched it. I feel differently now that New has irritated me twice in the last couple of months, first with Double Savage and then with A Boss and a Babe. That being said, I hope that someday he earns the moments he really wants to hit, because what he's trying to do is actually really interesting. Two best friends who've been in love with each other in one way shape or form their entire lives, and it takes them over 20 years to find an alignment that works for them. I'm into that.

Nini

Listen, New gon’ New, and I don't have to put up with it anymore. 

Ben

That's honestly one of the most unexpected takeaways of this whole season for us was realizing that I don't think I like New Siwaj anymore.

I'm not mad at him. I just feel a little bit sad, because he reminds me of a lot of guys who I knew when I was in college who mean really well. They just don't really know people or how to interact with them. That's how a lot of New’s stuff feels, particularly his whole thing with revealing context after someone has really fucked up something. Because that's how he gets things. Like he fucks up something, and likely somebody yelled at him and explained it to him, and he was like “oh damn,” and then he wrote it down in this journal, and then he turned it into one of his scenes in his shows.

Nini

I think we've talked enough about New Siwaj. We talked about New Siwaj literally the entire season. I am over him. Let's move on.

Ben

Very well.

22:52 - Roommates of Poongduck 304

Nini

The second thing that I watched—and this one I actually quite liked—I watched Roommates of Poongduck 304. 

This was actually pretty good. It was a solid little workplace drama out of Korea. I quite liked the way that they balanced out the boss and employee relationship by having them flip it at home and be landlord and renter. I always like when these boss-subordinate relationships have some kind of other power dynamic going on next to it. 

I really liked the characters. I thought they were fun. Watching Holland play like…[laughs]… a scamming-ass, down-dirty—like, he's supposed to be his friend but he's just stealing from him—let's just be real. It was delightful in certain ways but it was also heartbreaking because watching Jae Yoon get scammed and taken advantage of by not just Holland—who I can't remember the character's name even though I liked the show—but watching him get scammed by all his friends. It was just really hard. I kind of was like, “Aw, baby…You need to be more careful about who you let into your life.” 

But, yeah, I enjoyed this. I really enjoyed this. I thought that the work stuff was really integrated well into the romantic story and vice versa. For essentially a rom-com setup, it was quite realistic and quite fun. Yeah! I had a good time with this.

Ben

I really liked this show a lot, and I feel like…this show is underrated. I agree with you. I think this is one of the rare K-BLs that understands how much time they have exactly and what they want to do with that time. I think they balance the relationships in a way that makes it fun, and it's not just one person getting picked on by the other the whole time. 

And, like, the only thing that really I don't like in this show—is the same thing I usually don't like with the Korean stuff—is the way they handle alcohol in the shows that usually makes me uncomfortable. Seo Jae Yoon, I don't like the way he drinks. But, given the friends he has, I guess I'll let him have it.

Nini

Hoo! Listen, his friends are trash, throw the friends away, throw all the friends away. My God! The other friend who is basically like in an MLM and keeps making him buy shit...

Ben

Now that was gross.

Nini

What was the name that he had for him on his phone?

Ben

I don't know, but I remember being, like, really embarrassed about it. Like, it was basically like “fool” or…

Nini

Yeah, it was something like that. It was really mean. It was basically something that implied like he was just somebody that this guy was taking advantage of.

Ben

Like it basically felt like he called him “chump” and put him in his phone as that.

Nini

Yeah…and it was ugly but it was part of a character arc for Jae Yoon as well to understand that he deserved better than these friends who would use him like this, and I did like that. It's a solid little show, very enjoyable. I would recommend it to people. I liked it.

26:14 - She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat

So, today of all the days, the day we're recording, we got the news that there is going to be a second season of this: She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat.

Ben

I'm so fucking relieved. [Nini laughs] I really am! I will let you talk first but my goodness am I relieved that we're getting a season 2. [Ben laughs]

Nini

So, back in the VIIB Awards when we're talking about the GLs of the year, Ben laid this one out as one of the ones that he really enjoyed. He called it the lesbian What Did You Eat Yesterday? and being a great fan of What Did You Eat Yesterday? I was like, “Okay, bet. I will definitely watch this at some point.” 

So I found myself with some time, and I cracked open the old computer machine, and I decided I'm gonna watch She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat, and—oh my god—how lovely. It's so lovely. I love the show! I love it so much! Watching this gentle…kind of slow gravitation between Nomoto and Kasuga. I smile the entire time. It was so lovely. ‘Lovely’ is the word that just comes to mind when I think about it. 

And then Kasuga talking about how she has never felt accepted, or never felt understood…Nomoto starting to understand in herself how she's always felt separate from everybody. And then Nomoto watching Kasuga eat at every day basically, and those sessions them having dinner becoming more and more sexual…The look on Nomoto's face when she watches Kasuga eat becoming more and more mouth open kind of “this is hot” kind of thing. 

And her not even realizing that that's what's happening to her: that she is becoming sexually attracted to Kasuga, and particularly to watching Kasuga eat. 

Oh, God, love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. And then, as the show goes on, she starts to acknowledge and accept the fact that she's attracted to Kasuga—that she's sexually attracted to Kasuga. At the point in time that the story ends in season 1—now I can say that: in season 1—I remember thinking, “Oh my god! It's not finished! I need so much more of this—” 

Ben

And that's why I'm so fucking relieved.

Nini

It ends when they're really starting to adjust their relationship from friends to a romantic relationship. 

So, we are getting a second season of this of 20 episodes next year in 2024, and I personally cannot wait. I love that all the Japanese shit that I really glommed onto in the last few months are all getting sequels. 

So, there was the Utsukushii Kare sequel first, then we found out earlier that we're getting a second season of What Did You Eat Yesterday? and now She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat. 

I am very glad that I took your recommendation on two-thirds of this list. [laughs]

Ben

Shade. [laughs]

Nini

On all of it. There was stuff to hold on to in My Only 12 Percent. The totality of it just wasn't for me. So I'm glad that I watched all three of these, but of the three, my absolute favorite thing that you recommended that I watch is She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat.

30:09 - The Shipper

Nini

We've talked about the lovely fun things and now it's time to descend into hell. 

Ben

Last time we left you all, Nini and I decided that we would watch The Shipper from 2020 and report back to you all, because we liked a lot of the folks involved and thought it would be really interesting to give a show that we knew had had some complicated responses when it first aired a genuine watch. Well, we've had the opportunity to watch it, and we just finished it, and we have a lot to say. 

So, before we get into our immediate reactions, the simple breakdown of The Shipper is that it is a high school setting show in which two girls who’re writing sexy fic about two older boys at their school that they love and ship. This eventually leads to some kerfuffles in their school. Our protagonist, Pan, ends up riding with one of the boys home one night. They get into a car crash, killing both of them. In the afterlife, they meet the god of death—who is played by Jennie Panhan. They sass Jennie a bit, she mushes their faces, and sends them back to Earth, but accidentally switches their bodies, and then Pan has to live as Kim—the boy that she's been viewing as part of her ship for a long time clearly—for some time, where she realized she doesn't exactly know him that well, and then starts to reevaluate how she's always perceived him. 

A lot of other things happen. There are some ideas that are half-baked in this, and it's very clear that the show was fighting a thematic war within the writers room itself. And quite frankly, it left me and Nini both dissatisfied and deeply disturbed to put it mildly. 

Before I hand it over to Nini, I just want to say real quick, this is the first time in MDL history that I think I'll be giving a show a 1. 

So, Nini, we just finished The Shipper. How are you feeling?

Nini

I'm going to let MDL user jarabaa speak for me, and I quote: “I found the series so intensely disagreeable that my feelings of shock and unease will probably stay with me a long time whenever I think of The Shipper.” End quote. I think that says it all.

Ben

‘Disagreeable’ is really such an accurate term.

Nini

This just reiterates to me that sometimes when we both have a gut feeling about something, we should trust that, because we both had a gut feeling that we would not like this show, which is why we never watched it. And now, having watched it, I think we were both correct.

Ben

I feel so validated in my decision in 2020. I took one look at that show and I said ‘hell to the no’ and I wish we hadn't been curious in going back.

Nini

They say, “Curiosity killed the cat?” Well, I feel like a dead kitty right now because…What? Was? That? [sighs] 

Okay, I'm going to try—I'm going to try to actually formulate some sentences that are descriptive and helpful in order to lay out why I never want to think about this show again after we finish recording this.

Ben

Getting into some specifics about what may have happened along the way here: There were some interesting ideas presented early in the show that the people who ship people don't really know the people involved; that they have a false notion of them based upon surface details and the fictional things they've created about them. There's an interesting idea in this, particularly as it pertains to shipping real people who exist with each other as opposed to say fictional characters.

Early on the show really says something special with Pan realizing she didn't actually know who Kim was when she was forced to live as him, because she thought she knew who he was, and I made the joke when we were watching, like, the first episode, like, that, “You know, he's just a hole to her,” [Nini chuckles]...I didn't realize that that's what the theme of the show was going to be…

Like, spoilers for the end of The Shipper, only one of them survives Jennie mushing them in the face. First is apparently too weak. Prigkhing is so much stronger. And so Prigkhing gets to live as First’s character for a while. Eventually one of their bodies has to go and they make the decision for Pan to keep her body and for Kim (First’s character) to die. 

How we get there is a huge mess and by the time it finished the show read extremely homophobic and lesbophobic to Nini and myself.

Nini

Oh, throw in transphobic.

Ben

And transphobic. I'll let you take on that portion. 

For me, one of the things that was kind of interesting introduced along the way was that they were shipping two boys together because maybe they picked up on the homosocial tension between them, and what we learn along the way is that these boys actually did have a homoromantic relationship brewing between them. But it was nothing like anything that these girls had really imagined. I don't think I'd give much thought to the depths of the feelings between these two boys. And what we end up learning about the actual relationship between Kim and Way, the two boys that they’re shipping, played by First Kanaphan and Fluke Pusit respectively, ends up being fairly compelling, and I was deeply invested in what they might have done with those boys’ dynamic, particularly if we'd have gotten a see who Kim actually was.

But what ends up happening along the way that ends up frustrating me is critical moments that should have belonged to two gay boys…never get to happen for them…and what happens because the the narrative chooses to have the Kim character be dead the whole time, it makes all of Way’s expressed feelings for Kim, particularly after the accident, all feel super unrequited. 

I'm not opposed to exploring queer grief, but I don't like the way it's done here. It feels cheap. 

I'm gonna let Nini get into the specifics of this, because she said it multiple times when we were watching this: “this show wants to have its cake and eat it too.” It wants to give a stern lesson about how deeply out of touch shipping is, but also feeding shipping the whole time? And ends up…kind of damning itself along the way because we never actually really meet Kim…and he's dead at the end…and so all he is is what everyone else has projected onto him.

Nini

This show, for like maybe 6 or 7 episodes, tiptoes up to several points. It almost makes a series of points as Ben mentioned about shipping, about the experience of fandom, about who we think fans are and who they might actually be. It almost makes a point about how many queer women are in fandom and women discovering their queerness through fandom. It almost makes a point about about transgender people and the idea that the way that we present to the world maybe not being who we are inside. It tiptoes up to all of these points, and in the end touches none of them. The front half of this is intensely frustrating, and then the back half is just actively offensive. It just— I can't even— [laughs] Actively offensive!

The shift happens when we realize that there is this weird, ugly fake relationship—that is fake on one side but very real on the other—happening between Kim and one of the teachers. That's when this show really started going off the rails for me—the whole thing with Kim and the teacher is when I started feeling deeply uncomfortable. I started feeling gross. I didn't understand why this is the way that the show was going, what they were trying to say with this storyline. I still don't know at the end of the show what they're trying to say with that storyline other than I guess they're trying to tell you that the actual Kim was not a good person. But then why have him be essentially the victim of a predator?

Ben

It's really hard for us to give you guys the necessary context for some of these things. The simple overview is when Pan accidentally finds herself in Kim's body, she learns along the way that instead of being like the star academic student, he's actually an academic cheater, that he's involved in a secret relationship with one of the stern teachers, and he uses that relationship to get answers to the tests. This upsets Pan because her image of Kim as a star student and badass is ruined. 

Eventually, she learns that the reason why Kim was manipulating this teacher and involved in this relationship with her to get these tests was because he was helping Way study so that Way could get out of an abusive situation in his house with his dad by succeeding at school properly, because Way gets into fights too much. We don't really return to the whole thing there because all we get is…a teacher with very…juvenile-centric kinks projecting them on to a star student. It just left both of us, when we watched it, feeling super weird about it.

And it doesn't really go anywhere. They're just like—at the end she's like moved on to an age-appropriate man now, I guess? Like, good for her? I guess Kim's death was the necessary catalyst for her to stop trying to hook up with one of her students.

Nini

It's so gross and it's the pivot after which most of what happens feels gross to me, and there are a hundred different things that they're trying to do—none of them lands. It feels like the show wants to have its cake and eat it, too, in a lot of ways. 

I haven't even started to get into what they did with the character of Soda. Soda is Pan's best friend who she writes the fic with, who is her ride-or-die. The implication of the show is that Soda and Pan are kind of in love with each other, particularly that Soda is in love with Pan. But that again goes nowhere—in the end, they randomly put both Pan and Soda with boys?

Ben

A lot of things just don't make any damn sense in this show. It's frustrating because the show comes close constantly to a good point like it almost makes the point that shippers know nothing about the people that they're shipping…but then it never really gives us like an interior understanding of who Kim actually was. We only know him through what everybody else is getting out of knowing him. That's almost an interesting point but the big problem I feel with the show is that I feel like this show is the most intellectually disturbing and manipulative show that we've ever experienced. I don't think the show ever really lands on a real feeling it wants to go for and so you're kind of left floundering. 

I really…don't…like this particular project, and it's really frustrating because there's a lot of people I really liked in it. Individual pieces of the show on their own could be some really cool moments. Like I think Fluke plays a kind of himbo-badass-type-jock character really well. Like he plays Way super well as a guy who is not the greatest at school, doesn't really have like a refined understanding of human connection; but knows who's important to him, and knows who he wants to be with, and knows not to mislead other people along the way. 

And it's really frustrating to see a gay character like Way be constantly emotionally abused by this narrative. The frustration that arises from me as I watch this, particularly whereas it pertains to Way, is he already knows that he has feelings for Kim, and over the course of interacting with Pan, because Pan in some ways softens Kim because she's less standoffish than he is, Way decides to confess his feelings to Kim. And this pissed me off in episode 9 because I've been a gay boy confessing from the closet to someone before. It is the most terrifying thing that has ever happened to me in my life, and I was so disgusted with this show because they gave one of the most intense things that you can do as a gay man with another boy to a fucking shipper who never really respected who they were as people. 

I hate that with all of the fires that burn in my soul, and it never really gets better from there.

Nini

Let me give you an example of a direction that the show was going in that it then undercut. 

So, one of the actual good story arcs in the show. At the beginning of the show, Way is in a relationship with View’s character Pingping. Pingping is the school's queen bee and she is out here like putting out this…general idea that she and Way are in this hot and heavy thing. Meanwhile, Way has never really touched her. They spend all their time together staring at their phones and occasionally talking to each other. You can see where there is some affection there between them but Way quickly—I guess for the narrative—realizes how he feels about Kim, and he's very open immediately about talking to Pingping about it and being like, “Look, I am in love with somebody else.” And the way that Pingping handles that is also very real. She doesn't want to hear it. She avoids it. There's a lot of interesting stuff there. All that's great. 

And then, they undercut it by having Pingping, like, put a hit out on Kim. It's insane.

Ben

That is actually what happens. Like, the most frustrating thing to talk about with this show is that everything we're describing happened as we're describing it. The problem with The Shipper is while it's very easy to talk about the actions that transpired over the show and the expressed-by-the-character reason for why they're doing what they're doing, the thematic implications of everything they're doing is actually incredibly disturbing. 

Like, one of the big things we talk about in fandom sometimes is that projecting homosexuality onto boys is the way a lot of girls figure out their own queerness with themselves, and the show walks right up to this line by highlighting the romantic potential between Pan and her friend Soda, who spend way too much of their free time and their class time writing sexy fic about two boys like a year or two older than them, and then throws that idea away as if it were preposterous. 

That is…so offensive, and it's weird in a show that features young gay love in it about girls who are obsessed with young gay love to do something that felt Incredibly homophobic—in this case, specifically lesbophobic.

Nini

The show in general feels homophobic and lesbophobic because in the end, the only romantic relationship that actually gets to happen is the one between Pan and Khet, who is Kim's brother. So of everything else, basically Way falls in love with Kim and Kim dies, they tease Pan and Soda but it doesn't happen and they both end up with boys. It feels like it wanted to be clever and out-clevered itself, so to speak, to the point that it just got real stupid.

Ben

You look at The Shipper and you can see the points that it's hinting at but it's almost like it's afraid to make the point because they're worried that the audience that they're hoping funds this project doesn't turn on them by realizing that they're being maybe chided for how they behave, and it ends up becoming a show fundamentally about nothing, that ends on an insane level of queer trauma that it somehow writes off as useful because it helped a straight girl figure out that she should maybe fuck her best friend who's hung around her writing sexy fic about his brother, but she didn't know it was his brother for the last year or two? But also she's now projecting her intense shipping desires onto Gun and Off who randomly show up in the final six minutes? 

…I deserved better than this.

Nini

Let's just talk about the absolute—I mean, it sounds so weird to say that this is the absolute wildest moment of the show. I mean, if we went through all the wild moments of the show it's probably not the absolute wildest, but it's the one that felt probably the wildest and most offensive in the end and that was The Kiss. 

Ben

Fuck. Here we go.

Nini

At the end, Pan is now trying to get back into her body after a series of UNO reverses in the last two episodes that just were exhausting and upsetting. Now Pan is trying to get back into her body before it dies, and the way that she gets back into her body is supposed to be a true love kiss. Pan is still in First’s body at this point in time, and then they decide that the true love must be Kim's brother Khet. 

It's two boys kissing but it's somehow still homophobic! [laughs] It's so—oh my God. 

So, Pan's got to have a true love's kiss. So, Pan calls Soda while she's running to tell Khet that if he likes her he should come and kiss her in the form of his brother's body—which he does! I'm telling you, guys…what I'm saying is exactly what happened.

Ben

I just hate the show for having Ohm and First kiss, having it be one of the weakest kisses either of these boys has ever given, and then immediately cutting to a funeral afterwards. Because First’s character died.

Nini

Technically, First’s character died at the beginning of the show, and we only get to dealing with that at the end of the show. And in between, we just get a bunch of stuff…

I mean we haven't even got into the family drama, because aside from everything else that's happening, Kim and Khet live alone while their parents are in another country, and it seems like Kim and Khet kind of hate each other. And so there's a whole family drama happening with Pan in Kim's body where Khet is coming to peace of some kind with his relationship with his brother and then has to also deal with the fact that actually his brother is dead, and then has to shepherd his parents through that. So there's that. 

And then we randomly find out somewhere in the middle of the show that Pan is actually growing up being raised by her stepfather because her mom died? And her stepfather is constantly being encouraged by the people around him to ditch her because he doesn't have any responsibility to her, but she thinks of him as her dad.

Again all, on paper, compelling stuff. But the way that it's dealt with in the show, it just, it all feels like a bridge too far. 

Ben

The show wants you to think about a lot of really interesting ideas and such, but it doesn't want to come forward and say them itself. Like it's always tiptoeing up to something and then peeking in the room, and then walking away from it. It's one of the most frustrating experiences I've had as a viewer in a really long time. The show feels intellectually dishonest.

Nini

That's probably the best way to describe it. This show has roughly 800 convictions and the courage of none of them. It feels so dishonest intellectually. It feels…offensive. It feels…rude.

Ben

I was so angry at the end of episode 9 in a way I have not felt since the final episodes of HIStory3: Make Our Days Count. I don't like moments that should be joyous for queer people being snatched from them to make some sort of cute point in a narrative to seem somehow better than the audience? And it really really pissed me off. 

In this particular instance, it's when Way confesses his feelings to Kim and Pan goes into what she knows is going to be a confession believing this is somehow for her—which is deluded. And then she gets upset during the confession that the confession to the boy whose body she's in is being given to the boy whose body she's in and not to her, the shipper, after earlier chiding the girl she should be developing a lesbian romance with for deciding to project that onto the boy whose body she's in because she misunderstands their dynamic as Kim actually flirting with her. And I was enraged by this show taking a gay moment from a gay boy, and then also running away from a lesbian moment and having the character just be completely out of touch about it—which I guess is maybe the point about shippers, but not the point the show really wants to land on. 

And its final messaging in the last like ten-odd minutes is so deeply disturbing that I have not recovered. So, as we've described here today, Kim and Way are the boys that these girls were projecting all the shipping nonsense onto. We learned that these boys are actually involved in a fairly interesting and complicated gay love story that I actually think would have made for a really compelling story on its own—but I digress—and then…Kim is dead. And so we have to process that particular fact, and these girls believe that the best way they can honor the two boys who they never understood is to keep writing deluded fic about them! And I have not been this disgusted in a really long time.

Nini

And it's presented as valedictory somehow.

Ben

Right? Like they have Way cry, like, weird tears of thanks—I don't know what the hell happened here, and maybe because we can reflect on this now three—three to four years later—maybe this is why they put Aof in charge of all the queer shit after this because this…was a bridge way too fucking far.

Nini

At one point toward the end of our watch I remember just saying out loud “I fucking hate this” to Ben, and I think I kept that mantra up—varying versions of “I fucking hate this” and “I'm so pissed” for probably the last entire episode and a half of this show. 

Before that we were making jokes about psychic damage and eldritch horror. More and more jokes as the show went on, because we were absolutely taking psychic damage watching the show. The show was an eldritch horror. I just did not realize how much of an eldritch fucking horror that it was. 

Gah, listen. It's over. We've learned our lesson. We're never doing something like this again.

Ben

We have no promises to you all about other things we want to catch up on right now, because goddamn do we need a break. If we skipped it, we were correct! And we will not be second guessing ourselves ever again!

Nini

I think that's going to be the rule: if there is something that we both skipped it was for a reason and we should never watch it. Like it's one thing for us to, like, individually like something and recommend it to each other, but I think if there's something that we both skipped, I think that's the new catch up rule. If we both skipped it, it's staying skipped.

Ben

So it is written, so it shall be.

I don't really have a lot of positive things to say. Like, I think the set design was cool, I think the production design was fine. I think overall the performances are strong. The GMMTV talent is consistently solid at the level we expect of them. I don't think anyone else at GMMTV—at the time at least—could have done what First was asked to do in this character, or characters, he's playing, technically, two.

Nini

This is purely a writing fail. There's nothing else that I can point to that is wrong here. This is a hundred percent writing fail.

Ben

So, The Shipper was bad and wrong and offensive and evil. We will not be taking further questions about this show. We have said all that I want to say about this show, and I will not be referring to it going forward. We all deserved better than this.

Nini

I know there are those of you out there who love it. I'm sorry. I'm not one of you, and I am not willing to discuss it at all. 

Ben

I've said my piece and counted to three.

Nini

Amen, and hallelu. Moving on.

59:46 - Next Watches

Nini

So what are we going to catch up on in the summer and talk about in the fall? 

Well…for me, I will finally be getting past my weird reaction to the uncanny valley effect that I get from watching the face smoothing filters on the show and I am going to watch Light On Me.

Ben

Good.

Nini

Ben has been recommending this to me. He recently rewatched it and says that it holds up. Everybody loves this show. I've always intended to watch it but I could not get past the skin smoothing filter. It makes everybody look like a weird robot. It's just unsettling. I am going to fight through my horror of it to actually watch the show. 

[both laugh]

Ben

Jesus Christ.

Nini

And I'm gonna talk about it when we [laughs] when we come down to the fall, so look out for that discussion in October. Ben, what are you gonna watch over the summer?

Ben

[sighs] So, one of our recent pickups—who's been a delight—has watched so many things that I've recommended that I gave her a coupon, which she cashed in on Coffee Prince, which I am currently watching. And Nini has also convinced me to watch Mama Gogo. 

I originally skipped Mama Gogo because I had watched Friendzone, and I had watched Friendzone 2: Dangerous Area, and I just wasn't in the mood for Jojo doing big cast, obnoxious, soap-opera-level drama, and so I just skipped Mama Gogo at the time. We're about to watch Only Friends in probably the next one to three months maybe. I will watch Mama Gogo in preparation for more of Jojo's oeuvre, and then I guess we'll talk about both of those.

Nini

I think you're gonna enjoy Mama Gogo. It's not gay, but it feels gay?

Ben

I have watched Jojo's work. I know what you're talking about.

[both laugh]

Nini

I think you're gonna have a good time with it. 

So, that's what we're gonna be catching up on over the summer and talking about in our Catch Up Corner in October. So, look out for that.

1:02:33 - Me, My Husband, and My Husband’s Boyfriend

Nini

So in keeping with our mission to watch things that are queer-adjacent, queer-ish, as well as queer things, Ben and I both watched over this spring Watashi to Otto to Otto no Kareshi—Me, My Husband, and My Husband’s Boyfriend.

Ben, what is this about?

Ben

A mess! Me, My Husband, and My Husband’s Boyfriend is about a Japanese high school teacher who is sexually unfulfilled in her five-year marriage despite having an otherwise devoted and caring partner, who then discovers that her husband—on their anniversary— is making out with some guy right outside their door. In the process of trying to cope with this and deal with this, they end up attempting to form a poly triad with this guy, who her husband is seeing, who turns out to be her high school student who is an adult now. He also had feelings for her, and so they end up in this complicated situation where everyone's trying to take care of everyone. It's a little bit of a hot mess, and the show ends up asking for people to interrogate what their own relationships mean for them, though it ends on a somewhat ambiguous note for our trio. 

There's a lot to unpack along the way there, but the broad strokes is a teacher finds out that her husband is cheating on her with a man, and she decides that they're going to try and make this trio work. Complications ensue.

Nini

‘Complications ensue’ is putting it mildly. I feel muddled about the show, but the show is also pretty muddled, I think. It feels like they were trying to do something. I'm not sure it got all the way there— 

Ben

It did for me!

[both laugh]

Nini

Maybe it did for the audience that they were aiming it towards, which is obviously their local audience in Japan—

Ben

And sad, gay artsy boys like me!

Nini

I'm really curious as to how this was received inside of Japan. Japan's been doing these shows where they try to marry the individual instincts that are related to identity and specifically queer and queer-adjacent, I guess, identities. They're trying to marry that to the collectivist culture. So they're trying to put these shows in front of people like “This is maybe seem a little bit strange to you, but look at how happy everybody is. Isn't it most important that people are happy?” 

And, this one, I think from what I got from it, It seems like it didn't know exactly what it wanted to say about polyamory. There's a polyamorous character, who is Shuhei, who is the…husband's boyfriend, who is also in love with the wife. But the other characters aren't poly but they're still trying to make a poly relationship work.

It's so much! They're trying to stuff so much into this show, and I'm not sure that it entirely works for me. Ben has other ideas.

Ben

They're not poly to start, but no one is really except for characters like Shuhei, and I think that's why I like it. The big thing about being queer is you have to decide what relationships are going to be for yourself. You have to figure out what friendship, romance, and intimacy are going to be for you one person at a time. The etiquette rules of cis-heteronormativity do not apply to you, and so what works for me in this is most of the people who walked into this story were not poly but they did care about the people involved. 

Was being a poly triad the right solution for them? Absolutely not, but at the core you have two people trying to juggle a complicated sense of duty to each other, while also wanting different things from each other and maybe other people, and having to reconcile what all of those things are going to be for each other because they also wanted to honor the vows and choices they made to commit to each other under the previous structures before they got into this. 

So, no, Yuki and Misaki are not poly really in going into this, but opening themselves up to the idea that the way they understand love might not be concrete enables them to find something that puts them maybe on the path to actually being comfortable and cared for, and properly caring to the people that they value.

Nini

I would rock with that except for one very important thing. Yes, they're still working it out at the end. The show does end ambiguously, but the overwhelming feeling I get at the end is not a feeling of hope, it's not a feeling that they are going to work it out—that they're working through it and they're going to get to the place, because I still don't feel like they are being honest with themselves entirely about what they want. 

For example, Misaki, she wants sex and what she ends up with in the poly relationship, and even in sort of a wider polycule that she’s decided that she's putting together, none of it nets her the sex that she wants. But she has talked herself into it as being right for her, while it still doesn't give her what she wants. 

And I think it's very similar to Yuki. Yuki wants to be in a gay relationship. He wants to be in a gay monogamous relationship, and the polycule doesn't give him that either. So it feels like they're not even working towards the things that they want. That they've decided on this as a solution, but it doesn't actually solve anything for them.

Ben

So the reason why it doesn't bother me at the end is I don't need the confirmation. They want you to think about it. It's not about whether or not this polycule works. It's a question of, “Have your thoughts about polyamory changed from spending five hours with these characters?” And so the ambiguity at the end is totally fine for me because you're allowed to project what you hope for onto them, and the question is whether or not you can reconcile what version of their lives looks like. It's the thinking about it that's important for them. 

I totally see…your kind of hopeless read on the situation, but it doesn't bother me because they lean into ambiguity at the end. And so you're allowed to project onto it what you maybe want for yourself, or for those characters. Like, I do agree with you that Misaki wants sex, and they don't confirm her getting sex onscreen, but they confirm her taking charge of her life which to me is at the core of her lack of sex.

Nini

It's not even for me that they don't show her getting sex on screen. It's not like that. It's more about her mindset about it. Instead of that remaining part of her mindset: the fact that she wants sex. By the end she's completely put that thought aside it feels like.

Ben

I think it's implied that her desire for sex is also tied up in her notions of the kind of family they're supposed to have.

Nini

I'm not sure I agree with you there because it's one thing to feel like you should be having sex, and another thing to want sex, and I feel like Misaki wants sex. There is an argument to be made there about doing the things that you're expected to do and not doing the things that you're expected to do. Like, I fully see where the show is going with that with the character of the other teacher—I think it's Misumi—the fact that Misaki is not doing what Misumi thinks that she should do. So Misumi inserts herself into the situation and causes a problem. 

She's trying to fix it because she thinks that Misaki is too weak or too something to do the things that she should be doing, when it's really that Misaki doesn't agree that that's necessarily what she should be doing. I get that part. I'm down with what they're trying to do there, but I didn't get the sense that she wanted to have sex because she thought it's something that she should do. It felt like it was something that she herself wanted and she wasn't getting. 

Maybe I'm getting too involved in the sex of it. Maybe that wasn't the intention.

Ben

They leave who she inevitably chooses…to bang it out with ambiguous and up to the audience, Because for them to confirm in any sort of way I think would lead to too narrow a read on polyamory itself.

Nini

So the idea that they're trying to get across is that this is not about sex. Polyamory is not a sex thing.

Ben

Correct.

Nini

I can accept that take, in terms of what they're trying to put in front of their audience.

Ben

Both of them want sex. Like Yuki wants sex, too, when it comes to Shuhei, but like he's unsatisfied because he can't enjoy it openly the way he realizes he wants to and needs to. And so much of this is about them all having to let go of their preconceptions about what their lives should look like. And so, like, the final scene of the three of them, like, seeking each other out at night, and then just being happy to see each other, works for me because it feels like they see each other, and that's enough for me. Like, I don't have to understand it to get that, whatever they found, it works for them. 

That's how I feel about every polycule I've ever met. I don't always get it, but everybody involved seems all right. Their relationship is not about me. If they say they're happy, I just accept that and move along.

Nini

I'll take that away and think about that, but my overall feel of the show is that it definitely had ideas that it wanted to get across. It had an audience that it was talking to. I think that maybe I wasn't the audience, and that is part of my ambivalent feelings about the show. So, for me, it lands on ‘good,’ obviously has a point of view, obviously has a story it wants to tell. But it's not for me, and that's fine.

Ben

I gave this a 9 because I really engaged with all the ideas the whole way through, and I  was really gripped by the whole of it. I liked how so much of it ends up being about Misaki having to defend her family from herself, from her co-worker, and I like that she's consistently fighting for the boys specifically, and that she cares about them. 

Nini

Ben gives it a 9. I, on quality, give it a 9 and a half.

Ben

Oooh, look at you.

Nini

Like I said, it is a good, objectively good, show. I'm just not the audience for it.

1:15:53 - Spring Roundup

Ben

And we're back! 

Now that we’ve finished catching up on all of the shows—good and bad—it's finally finally time for the Spring Roundup. This week we have our first guest on The Conversation. We have brought my best friend, David onto The Conversation. David, say hello to the people. 

David

Hey, y'all! 

Ben

Okay. [David laughs]

Nini

Hi, David! I'm so excited to have you with us! 

David

I am, too!

Nini

I remember saying to Ben, like, probably around the time the first voice note hit the chat, like, ‘David has to come on the show.’ So, I am very glad that we were able to make it work.

David

I love that. He was telling me that people wanted to hear me, and I'm like, “Look, there are too many people who tell me to shut up. I love this!” [David and Nini laugh]

Nini

That will never be a problem over on this side. 

David

“David talking again.”

Nini

Never shut up, I beg you. [chuckles]

1:16:40 - David Introduction and BL Background

Alright, alright. So, David, tell us about you. Tell us about how you even got into BL. Tell us a little bit about the David story.

David

Um, hoo! I'll say, so I'll start from the BL angle. I got into BL because of Ben. I don't know if he's ever told anyone this story, but me and Ben have two very different takes on Love of Siam. He is not to bring it up in my presence. I feel tricked and deceived. But because of Love of Siam, I didn't even realize that BL was a category, and Ben tried to initially get me into it, but I got really sick for a while. And I wasn't watching with him, and then I started getting over it and the first BL that like fell into my lap because I found it on YouTube was Until We Meet Again. 

And then it was a rabbit hole. I like finished that BL in like I think one sitting. 

Ben

Which is insane. 

David

And I think in that sitting I was texting Ben like, “Oh hell no!” [laughs] And then immediately went and watched another whole show back to back and that was Love by Chance.

Nini

Interesting!

David

Finished that the next night. [Nini laughs] Yeah, girl, I know. I know. 

Ben

It was super annoying having David texting me about old shows because like we're neck deep in like 2021 content. [David laughs] Like that was a busy year. There was a week at one point we had 16 shows to watch and David’s like, “So this show in 2018: I really want to talk about it.” 

David

I was also watching all the current stuff. 

Ben

Yeah, that was a lot. 

David

I was, I think at least six, seven hours a day. For a while it was all BL. 

Ben

According to David's MDL, he's basically current on all of the BL 

David

Yeah. There's maybe like four or five recent ones that I haven't watched, and two of those I was directly told by someone ‘you are not missing anything.’ 

1:18:50 - David’s History with Queer Cinema

Ben

Here's an interesting question because you and I have been in the guts of queer cinema a long time. Prior to BL, what are some of your favorite gay movies that you remember? 

David

Now, of course he knows this is loaded because I'm always gonna say Big Eden.

Ben

It’s so good.

David

One, it like touches my heart. When I'm depressed I watch Big Eden. It's one of the few times where I've been upset at the main queer character almost the entire movie. Henry has issues. But Big Eden is a beautiful movie, and then maybe after that Beautiful Thing, To Wong Foo, Priscilla Queen of the Desert, Bound, Like Water for Chocolate—another lesbian classic. 

Ben

To elaborate on The Love of Siam conversation, we watched Love Siam, and David and I were both deeply repulsed by what happened there. But we contextualized it in different ways. David was furious and was like, “I never want to discuss this film ever again,” and so David was not exactly primed for BL because he was so ambivalent about Thailand.

The big Thai gay things we watched between 2012 and 2017ish…

David

Oh, Jesus Christ.

Ben

…were Love of Siam, Bangkok Love Story—a horrible film.

David

Horrible fucking film.

Ben

The Blue Hour—a good film but really unsettling—and How to Win at Checkers (Every Time). 

David

Lord Jesus.

Ben

So. 

David

Like Thailand routinely came for my throat and I had done nothing to it. Thailand routinely showed up at my front door with these movies like, “Come outside. We ain't gonna jump you,” and inevitably I would open the door and get jumped, and I never learned my lessons. So—

Ben

[laughs] It would always be me leading them. I’m like hey I got this film!

David

Yeah!  It’s Ben. It's Ben. Yeah, no, it wasn't Thai. It was Ben sitting outside with the movies. “Come outside. You won't get jumped.” You said that last time. “Girl, come on, stop talking about old shit.”

[Nini laughs]

Ben

I like the queer angst films. David does not.

1:20:59 - David’s Favorite BL Actors

Ben

So back to BL! For funsies: How about you tell the people of the podcast who some of your favorite boys are. 

David

Ohm and Fluke. 

Ben

She is a My Blue girlie. 

David

Uh, I really am. [whispers] Earth Pirapat. I love him. 

Nini

Why did you whisper it like that?

David

If you hear this, Earth, my one true love. [Nini laughs] My current husband, I love him. He is a placeholder for you. I just want you to know [Nini laughs harder] he can be gone tomorrow, bae. Like it ain’t nothing. Earth, what do you need? Like, I got you. What do you need, Daddy? You need a boat?

Nini

I heard the F at the end of Earth right there and I was like I feel you. I completely understand where you're coming from this moment—not my particular ministry but I feel you.

David

Yeah, thank you, thank you. I had to constantly deal with Ben's malcontent, so thank you for acknowledging…

Ben

I will back up David's Earth girlie bona fides. David has not seen Water Boyy because I refused to let David suffer that loss, but David saw Earth for all of two minutes in Love By Chance and he's calling me “Who is this man! I need to know who this man is immediately!” 

David

I—he came on the screen. I was like “and that's it, yep, right there!” 

Nini

You were officially sprung.

David

Right there! [gross David mouth noises] Yes.

Nini

Oh my God. [laughs]

David

Yeah, Earth. Earth. That's all I gotta say, Earth. That man—whew—Lord.

Ben

David has an appreciation for what he calls ‘the Big Talls’ and—

David

Yeah, I love the Big Talls.

Nini

Fair. You know how I feel about a Big Tall.

Ben

You and Nini can hang out together talking about Man Trisanu—

David

Man! Oof, girl! Not Man! Oh my…girl!

Nini

‘Man.’ Is. Correct.

David

Never has a name so encapsulated a being.

Nini

‘Man’ and ‘tree’ in the same place.

David

Girl. Man. Tree. Mountain. Stud. I mean, look, look, look, Man. Man did the job that he was sent here to do. God Bless him. May Buddha protect him. Like yass. [Nini laughs]

1:23:24 - David’s Thoughts on the Spring Shows

Nini

Okay, so we've got the shows we've got the boys. Let's dive into the season. Talk to me about how you felt about this spring—all the shows we've been watching over the last few months

David 

So, I think I've said this to Ben before. I felt that this season was probably the one of the most extremes. Like there were a few things that were...hmm...misses, kind of, but for the most part we had��duds and bangers. And the bangers made the duds and the misses that much worse. 

We had [The] Eighth Sense, Bed Friend, Our Dining Table, Jack o’ Frost, and everything else was okay, but those are all 10s and they were bangers, and it just made everything—

Ben

How dare you forget La Pluie? I will beat you. 

David

Oh I'm, I'm so sorry, please forgive me sir. [Ben laughs] You're right. I—I'm so sorry, sir. La Pluie. He's right. That was wrong. I do deserve the slapdown that I just received.

Ben

Sat in my house—for 11 of 12 episodes. 

David

In his house—played in his face y'all. Played in this man’s face. In his face like he didn’t know who it was. I’m sorry. La Pluie.

[Nini laughs]

There were a lot of good ones and I think that's why there were so many, many more bad ones. In particular, the most glaring combination is the shows that were basically the same show but one was clearly better.

Step by Step, [A] Boss and a Babe. Look, A Boss and a Babe, I get what they were trying to do but the whole show was a massive misstep, and it was so much more obvious because right after A Boss and a Babe we got Step by Step—which fumbled maybe a couple of times—it fumbled a little—but it stuck the fucking landing. 

Ben

Hmm...

David

I think—oh here—

Nini

Ben is gonna fight you, but David I am on your side!

David

I heard the 'mmm'. She has talked to me about this before. I actually completely agree with what I know she's gonna say, but I still think they stuck the landing in a way that everyone else fumbled and fell on their fucking face.

Ben

Hmm...

Nini

David, you me. You can't see me now but we are shaking hands! We are shaking hands.

David

We are I—I concur. Thank you.

Ben

I’m gonna have a little sip while y’all—

[David and Nini laugh]

1:26:15 - Somewhat Forgettable Shows

Ben

So you mentioned a bunch of shows that really stood out for you. Like, looking over your list, like you already mentioned like Our Dating Sim, Our Dining Table, Step by Step, La Pluie, Bed Friend…looking at the rest of the stuff: What did you genuinely enjoy, but you feel like you have to look at your list to remember that show.

David

Oh, that's a good one. I really enjoy but I have to look at the list to remember it…Our Dating Sim. I liked it but it would never be in the forefront of my mind. But if you bought it up and I saw it in front of it like “I like that.” I felt during this show—I was like ‘oh this is cute.’ 

That's a really good question. Like you liked it but you need to like, be reminded of it. And that would be, yeah…Our Dating Sim, Jack o’ Frost. God bless it, I want to say Naked Dining but Lord Jesus Christ… 

[Ben laughs]

They tr–girl, they’re my top nominee for “Y'all tried it” 

[Ben and Nini laugh]

Ben

David has declared a new entrant into Girl, You Tried. 

Nini

I'm putting it in the notes. What about you, Ben? What's the one or two that you liked but to actually remember you gotta look at the list?

Ben

It's probably…Unintentional Love Story and…Love Mate. These are both shows that I think I gave 9s to, and I would earnestly recommend, but I don't think I would independently bring them up in conversation as like BL Essentials that I really want someone else to watch. 

David

I agree with those, particularly Love Mate. Like, I would put Love Tractor on that list.

Nini

I watched Love Mate and Love Tractor after the fact. Which, by the way, the Koreans have got to get better at naming these shows. 

Ben

Love Tractor is a good one, too! Like, Love Tractor was actually good— 

David

Love Tractor was good. 

Ben

It feels like they missed it. 

David

There was a point where they could have done some stuff faster, and had these boys sucking face quicker—I'm gonna let it be what it was…It was cute, but like I said, it's on that list for me. I liked it but it never comes to the forefront of my mind. 

Nini

I feel like that's fair for both Love Mate and Love Tractor. 

What else did we watch that I have to remind myself that we watched? 

Ben

There were quite a few flops we did not even acknowledge the season. [laughs]

Nini

We're not even talking about the flops—

Ben

David's going on on a face journey right now.

David

Like, my whole, [sighs] There were so many… 've seen fish dumped on the bottom of a boat that flopped less than some—

Nini

Oh my God—

David

Fish gasping for air trying to get back into the sea! “Release me, old man, and I shall grant you three wishes!” Some of this stuff was flippity floppity floopin’ all over the place.

Ben

As I remind David about the trenches that I fought through for eight years of BL. 

David

Here he goes…

Nini

“Oh, all my life I had to fight.”

David

Had to fight David. I had to fight Viki. I had to fight iQIYI—

David

I love BL. 

Nini

Had to fight WeTV!

David

Lord knows I do! 

Ben

I did have to fight WeTV, though, shit.

[everyone laughs]

1:29:25 - Favorite Actor Pairs

Ben

Before we get into some of the cerebral questions about this season, I have one more sort of half-fun question to sort of ease us there. Of the programs that you enjoyed, which actor pairs did you enjoy working together the most—just in the work—not with all of the fan shit around it?

David

Bed Friend. 

Ben

What about Net and James really stuck out for you?

David

The material they were handling, because we can talk about all the high heat stuff—whatever— they were great. Rarely has two people had that kind of sexual chemistry, but the—trigger warning—the sexual assault thing, and how at some point you realize even though he has not told him what happened to him, he knows. And how he is respecting his boundaries and that's coming into the story and they're talking about—without talking about how someone deals with that trauma for the rest of their life. And how it can't help but inform every decision you make, and how you respond to things. 

And I do not think that any other pair could have pulled that off in the same way that Net and James did. As a matter of fact, if you had asked me if I thought they could do it, I probably would have said no.

Ben

Judging on their previous work I would not expect— 

David

—on their previous work, but they were both…fantastic. 

Ben

What about you, Nini?

Nini

My couple of the season? It's gotta be Man and Ben.

David

I'm not even mad.

Nini

I think Man and Ben did a really good job with Step by Step. 

David

I’m not even mad…even though that boy has the ugliest crying face—God bless him—Ben, I love Ben to death, but like his crying face makes me so angry. 

[Ben laughs]

I'm like please teach this child how to cry without scrunching up his mouth like that. I love him, though.

And how tall is Man? 6’9” or something?

Ben

I don't know. It's a lot though.

Nini

Man was on point. Everything he put on screen was on point, and Ben just followed along I think. I think they did really well.

David

I would like to say, too: I don't think we've ever seen…a pursuer really be…emotional. Like if you think about it, how many times have we seen “the guy” going after the person really have a breakdown and cry. There might be some tears. They're upset. They're throwing stuff, but he broke down. 

Nini

He was crying in his baby brother's lap.

David

His brother. He was like ‘what the fuck am I supposed to do?’ And he delivered that! It was completely believable. Like I watched that scene five times. He just loses it. It was completely believable. He was amazing, and I was just like ‘How dare you hurt my redwood?’ 

Nini

The thing that struck me about that scene was that Man couldn't actually produce tears but somehow—that scene—is, like, he is bawling. There are no tears and I'm still feeling everything that he's feeling because just the sound of his voice—everything.

David

It was working and this motherfucker couldn't cry! I was like how dare you! 

Ben

My couple of this season is Title and Pee from La Pluie.

Nini

I knew you were going there.

Ben

Girl, you knew what this was. We did not simp hard enough for Title during the La Pluie discussion.

[David laughs]

That boy is beautiful! He has an incredible smile. Like, they're like ‘I think Tai likes this boy too’ and I'm like ‘that's just Title. He just gives everybody the eye every time he looks at them. He breaks people. It's The Eyes of Kid Midas shit going on here.’

David

You know you can't be looking at everybody like that because even I was like he's a whore. 

[Ben laughs]

You don't look at everybody like that.

Nini

Did I not say that Tai is an alley cat like from jump.

David

And you were right. You were a prophet. You led the march because he's a whore. 

Ben

And he bit that man.

David

And then he bit him.

Nini

No, okay, sorry. We just did not ventilate this enough because I just, like, uploaded the Adult Swim episode today, which means I just listened to it again and I'm sorry we didn't talk enough about how Tai bit that man. We just didn't.

David

He bit a grown man…and then had the nerve to get mad because the man got mad ‘cause you bit him. Do we remember what he said after that? ‘You made me.’ Sir! That is inappropriate in every way shape and form that matters! You can't just be biting people.

Do I want to sometimes walk around and bite people? Yes, because, listeners, some people just deserve to get bit. We all know it, we all secretly think it. Like, don't play. Don't play. Lie to God, don't lie to me. Read your scripture. It's above me. 

All I'm saying…What was I saying? He's a whore. That's what I'm saying.

[Ben laughs]

I lost the thread at some point. 

Ben

They don't have easy characters to portray. Title has to be a likable enough protagonist for people to project onto him before they recognize that he's been in the wrong the entire time. And then he has to be wrong in a way that also makes you want to root for him to get better. And that's super difficult— 

David

Oh…I didn’t think about it like that. 

Ben

And Pee has a difficult character because he has to be all of these things without people asking any questions about his biography. Like, he has to be a perfect romantic interest but not in a way that's distracting. Pee has to portray Patts in such a way that we identify him as the ideal partner that Saengtai has been looking for this whole time, but we need to not ask any questions about him, like where does his money come from, what's the deal with his people, what does he care about outside of Saengtai and taking care of these animals and his friends 

And he encompasses Patts in such a way that he feels like a complete person. Who has turned his interest towards Saengtai in a way that doesn't demand the audience ask any goddamn questions about him. Like, for all the debating about Patts this whole season, nobody stopped to ask a damn question about how does this man's life even function, which I think is also great. Because it means everybody was caught up in Saengtai's bullshit the whole time.

They give such legible performances over the course of the show. There's never a moment where you're confused about what Saengtai or Patts is feeling and why they're feeling it. 

Ben

So we talked about the actors. We loved Net and James this season. We loved Man and Ben. We loved Title and Pee. Who else stood out this season?

Nini

Iijima and Inukai.

Ben

Also Suzuki Kosuke and Honda Kyoya. The Japanese BLs we gave 10s to? Stellar performances. Nobody has looked like such a sap more than Iijima in a long time and that was so lovely to watch. 

1:36:49 - The Changing Nature of BLs

Ben

Let's get into the cerebral. We talked a little bit in the… Adult Swim episode about how intellectually demanding this season felt. 

David, since you've been in a rapid catch up with BL for the last two years…We talked about how emotional the winter felt with Moonlight Chicken, Utsukushii Kare 2, The Warp Effect, My School President, Never Let Me Go— 

David

Back to back to back to back bangers. I don't even know if we've had a season where there were that many back to back to back bangers. 

Ben

Airing concurrently? No, that was a first. However, this particular season as you said, there were really good shows and not so great shows. How do you feel about how much the shows of this particular season required us to lean in, and pay attention to them, and talk about them, and acknowledge what was being said?

David

I think the medium is evolving. I think we're having to lean in more because some shows want us to. They're clearly writing this. They're clearly directing this. They're clearly leading us somewhere where we want you to think about this. It's not all cutesy. And I think that is a maturing of the genre itself.

Ben

Nini, you have any thoughts about the…cerebral nature of this season you want to get out for the lagniappe?

Nini

I talked a little bit about this in the Adult Swim episode, but my brain? She be tired. My brain be so tired like to the point where, over the summer, I'm just watching trash, lighthearted fluff, and one or two things that are making me think a little bit more, but mostly just—yeah—I don't want to think for the next little bit. 

David

Trash is where it's at, yup.

Nini

I'm a Thailand girlie. I go up for the Thai shows most of the time, and every big name in Thailand gave me something to look at, more or less, this season and it was all like…if not the best, it was instructive. It was interesting. It made me think. So, I generally had a good time, but she tired.

Ben

I almost want to say this is where the genre peaks for me. Like I've been wondering what the peak of BL was going to look like for a while. There was a lot of really heavy stuff this season about what queer people are living with and experiencing, and I am curious where BL goes after this. 

1:39:34 - Girl, You Tried

So before we talk about where BL is going next…We've been building towards this all season. It's time to hand out Girl, You Tried. 

[David laughs]

Dave this is your first time on the podcast with us. During the VIIB Awards we handed out an award for a show that. Boy, there were some ideas, there were some performances—they were not in the same meeting. 

David

[laughs] At all. The focus group saw something different. Um, people watched a different show. Some notes got jumbled up. Uh, clearly the director was asleep or just not paying attention. Things happened. 

Ben

Nini, please introduce our contestants.

Nini

For those of you who might be new to us, Girl, You Tried is an award that we give out every season for a good concept that struggled with its execution. So, our four nominees. Four, people! Four nominees for Girl, You Tried this season are: late entry—Naked Dining, original entry—A Shoulder to Cry On, and along the way entries—A Boss and a Babe and Step by Step. 

You've heard us talk about all of these shows across the season, so we're not going to dive too deep. Y'all will have heard the problems that we had with the shows. David, aside from Naked Dining which is the one you put on the list, maybe tell the people why you think Ben and I put specific shows on the list.

David

To be fair, I did not watch A Shoulder to Cry On because Ben dogged that show out so bad I wasn't even gonna give it the time of day. So, um, I can't vote on A Shoulder to Cry On. 

Naked Dining takes it home for me because they were both annoying. They both were getting on my nerves, and this weird thing that they love doing in Japan, where people take off for prolonged periods of time and don't talk to one another…is obnoxious. There were all these weird near misses, and the food was supposed to be more central but it really wasn't. Some things just didn't make sense and no one would explain it. Normally that's okay, but there are things that are central to the story that just didn't make sense. 

Ben

How did they try? 

David

What they tried for was cute little cooking show with a side of romance. What they got was day-old, discounted bread. They wasted my time and my soul. It was a waste. If we're taking it down to brass tacks, they tried…something…I don't know what it may have been.

Maybe they were trying to do a cooking show. Maybe they were trying to do a show about kitchen safety, and why you shouldn't be in your kitchen naked. I really don't know what they were trying to do. 

Ben

Nini, we've talked about a lot of these shows a lot. Who is your winner for Girl, You tried for this season?

Nini

Well for me, it's always gonna be who, with like some nips, some tucks, some tweaks, would have been a 10 for me? That's my criterion, and for me that show is Step by Step, ‘cause Step by Step was like, I think I ended up giving it like a 9.

Ben

Yeah, you gave it a 9…

Nini

Yes, I did! I truly think that with a couple of nips and tucks and tweaks like Step by Step could have been a 10 show for me. I just enjoyed whatever Tee was doing. I…was into the ideas that he was playing with. You know I'm a vibesy bitch and I was feeling the vibe of Step by Step. 

But! It needed some—some tidying—it needed some cleaning up. Like I said, some nips, some tucks, and it would have been essential for me. So yeah, Step by Step. That's my winner. How about you, Ben?

Ben

I went back and listened to some of our stuff in preparation for the Girl, You Tried award, and I think the fact that we had a gaming company and a team of gamers and they never did anything with that as a potential crossover feels like a huge miss from the writing standpoint, which means that they were barely paying attention. That's a huge knock in the ‘you're not really’ trying section of the board for me. And I think just listening back, the intensity with which I was criticizing Step by Step is basically the built-in answer for me. 

I love Tee a lot, as a creator, as a queer person, and…I'm always rooting for him, but goddamn does he make it hard sometimes.

[David and Ben laugh]

Nini

Ben said Tee’s that friend you have who's right, but damn, shut the fuck up. [laughs]

Ben

Drink your juice, Shelby! 

David

Tee really is. Girl, you shoulda just sat there and ate your dinner. Tee really is that friend. See! Just sit there, just eat. 

Ben

Like, the reason why it's Step by Step is, as an entertainer, Tee—I think—broke trust with his audience. And he really misfired there, because, like, there are so many good ideas in Step by Step, and he's got a really good eye as a director. He's a really legible storyteller but he's got to figure out how to put these things together. He's got to figure how to structure his episodes more effectively. And so for me, it ends up being Step by Step because I can feel the show that Step by Step wants to be more than the other shows on this list. 

Like, Naked Dining doesn't know what it wants to be. A Shoulder to Cry On got edited to all hell because of the idols involved. And what the fuck was New even doing with the bunch of fucking gamers in a workplace BL? Anyway. So, it’s Step by Step.

Nini

All right. The dubious honor of Girl, You Tried for Spring 2023 with two- thirds of the votes [laughs] goes to Step by Step.

David

I amend my vote. You have talked me out of my vote. I will now amend my vote: Step by Step clears the board! 

Ben

The whole panel! [laughs]

David

It'll be the only award show it ever sweeps. 

[Nini laughs]

Nini

Sorry! So it's now unanimous.

David

Minus ones across the board.

Ben

Alright, panel, 10s or chops? Nini?

Nini

One chop.

Ben

Two chops.

David

Three fucking chops. [Nini laughs] 

I don't see it!

1:46:56 - Looking Ahead

Ben

Our final section: Looking Ahead. What do we have up next? Nini, you've got the list.

Nini

Well, what are we watching right now? So let's start with that. So, one of the things that we're watching now [sighs]...I'm just gonna say it. We're watching Be My Favorite. I am on record on this podcast as saying that I had zero interest in watching Be My Favorite. Ben said he was going in hostile—which, he did. 

We had to literally amend the name of our chat for the show, like as the show went on. What did it start as?

Ben

Not Our Favorite.

Nini

I was not watching at that point. It went from Not Our Favorite to Maybe? It's Good?? to We’re Mad This Might Be Good. And then now our chat is just called UGH! FINE!!

[David laughs]

David

So I slugged my way through the very first episode, and when he had said it was like the first time in a long time that me and him have both been like ‘absolutely not’ and then…two weeks later this bitch goes “so Be My Favorite” and I turn—aghast, of course—because I thought not only had that ship sailed but we waited until they got at the harbor and we sank it. 

And I discover that homegirl down here is taking a sub to go look at its remains. Then of course, because I'm like no this has got to be a complete disaster, because there's no way this Miss Thing went back to his show and now I'm sitting here like “Ugh…okay.” 

Ben

What else is on the “Wow are we actually watching this?” list. 

David

I know it's not Hidden Agenda. 

Nini

It is Hidden Agenda.

David

I haven’t watched it yet because I was gonna let Ben watch it. I'll be like if Ben hates it I won't bother watching it. But I don't want to start watching this shit, and like it, and have this bitch hate it, and not have anybody to watch this show with. 

Ben

I don't hate it! I don't think I'm sold on it yet. But I don't hate it. 

David

Someone told me that they have definitely gotten better…as acting, now, one show under.

Ben and Nini

Hmmmmmmmmmm...

David

No! Not the both of you! Not the both of you!

[Ben and Nini laugh]

Not the both of you going 'hmmmm' like a starting up race car. I am so mad that you both at the, nearly a second apart 'hmmmm'

[Everyone laughs]

Nini

Here's the thing, right? [David continues laughing] I wasn't going to watch it, then I found out it was Tee and then I was like “well shit, now I have to watch it” because I am contractually obligated to watch everything that he makes after Lovely Writer.

David

Understood.

Nini

This is giving me such Lovely Writer teas in some very specific ways, but it's too early to tell as yet— 

David

What are we? Three in, or two in?

Nini

Three in. Yeah, it's too early to tell—like, with Tee you got to give it half the show. Because, like, when I think about Lovely Writer like around four is when it started turn, and by six I was like ‘yeah, okay, in.’ 

With Tee, he's a slow burn motherfucker. You just got to give him time to get into it. So I am holding my thoughts on it…so far, but I am contractually obligated to watch it all the way through.

Ben

David and I caught up on Laws of Attraction this weekend. It's a lot of fun. We're having a great time. 

David

I love him. 

Ben

He’s talking about the insane lawyer. 

David

His level of outright ridiculous sissiness. I live for. It is walking gay chaos…and I…live… for every moment he is on the screen. And somehow each shirt got gayer.

Like, I don't know if he's having conversations with people in costuming, or if he is like pointing at a random poor little assistant and going “You I want you to go to a woman's blouse store and get the ugliest, most asymmetrical shirt you can.”

Ben

[laughs ]And it better be champagne-colored!

David

“And you are to bring it back here, and I swear to God, if it's not earth-toned or champagne…I will beat you to within an inch of your life. Go do your job and get out of my face.” 

He is giving me everything because, look, girls, gays, and theys with guns—I'm here for. And when he goes to that office trying to beat that boy up, and he pulls out that gay-ass little gun… and goes, “Look, Boo-Boo, I'mma put one in you one way or another.” 

[Nini laughs]

I live. I live! I was resurrected. I had bronchitis and he cleared it up. It resurrected me. That whole scene healed me in body and spirit. I'm not gonna even lie.

Nini

So I am not watching this. I am waiting for somebody to tell me I must watch this. 

David

Oh girl, you're not missing anything. Do not get us wrong! You are not missing cinéma vérité by any stretch of any one's fucking imagination. But what I will tell you is that it is delightful.

Ben

Also from Thailand, we are watching Be Mine Superstar.

Nini

When I was talking earlier about a trash watch. This is what I was talking about. [laughs] 

David

I have not been watching it because it was another one that I was kind of waiting to see what Ben was gonna say.

Ben

Be Mine Superstar is fine. It is…very watchable. It isn’t asking a lot of me right now. I'm having a good time with the performances. Overall, it is a low stakes watch for me, and I'm with Nini. Like I'm having a great time with the big pieces but I don't mind having just a very watchable show where it's very clear that Ja and First are having a good time playing against their type. 

David

Okay!

Ben

Okay, we're gonna talk about the shit I care about!

Nini

Now Ben wants to talk about Japan.

Ben

Let's talk about Japan! 

David

Oh, here she go. Buckle up, folks. It's gonna be a bumpy night. 

Ben

Japan is currently airing two shows. I am living my best life! 

Currently, we have Tokyo in April is… which is the first new outing from MBS, who have continued their Drama Shower rotation. A lot of you may not be familiar with who MBS is but they are a Japanese broadcasting network. It is very, very cool that MBS is invested in BL because they have produced some of the most important shit that's worked its way out of Japan into the masses, like some of the most famous anime comes from MBS. Very, very cool that MBS is committing an entire second year to BL and they are continuing to get more gritty with the kinds of stories they're willing to tell along the way, and I am really, really impressed with Tokyo in April is… and I don't want to say anything else right now because we have a lot to unpack when we finally discussed it in fall! 

Also, Minato’s Laundromat 2 is airing right now, and while Nini may never watch Minato's Laundromat 2 so we'll probably not discuss it on this show except for me saying like it deserves a VIIB Award later, it is really cool that the showrunners opted to abandon the source material for the second season. 

From Korea we have Jun & Jun right now. If you are kind of bougie about Korean production, I don't think you're going to enjoy this one. 

Finally, Taiwan is back! Oh my god, Taiwan is back and it's as cracked out as ever! Holy shit Stay by My Side is so stupid! I love it! 

[David laughs]

We have needed a stupid BL for a while, and like it's not stupid in a sense like the plotting is bad, the storytelling is bad, but it's just so silly. It's like what if we take all these goofy BL tropes and just ramp that up to 9! Not 10, just 9! 

We don't know when Man Suang is going to come out. We're anticipating it but we have no idea when it's going to release because they are doing the international festivals circuit thing.

David

A friend of mine got into a viewing of it. Apparently it's good. Sincerely good. 

Nini

There is something else coming out of Drama Shower that I don't have on the list because it only came up recently. My Personal Weatherman. That is what it’s called.

And the last one, which I am obligated to mention because my baby Na Naphat. Na and ISBANKY is in it and Saiparn from Midnight Museum. It's Club Saipan Fine: Moments and Memories. 

Ben

That looks like a goddamn mess.

Nini

It looks exactly like the kind of trash that I need to watch, and it’s only four episodes.

Ben

I'm glad it's only four episodes, so you can report back quickly because goddamn I am not doing that one. 

David

Ben look harrangued—and traumatized—right now. [Ben laughs] He's huddling on the floor in the corner shaking his head. 

Nini

It's mess and lesbians.

David

Oh wait! There are lesbians in it?

Nini

Yes.

David

And here we are! We're there. That's it, that’s it. I'm watching it. 

1:57:44 - Outro

Ben

As we wrap this up, David, thank you for joining us as our very first guest on The Conversation. 

David

Oh god this was awesome.

Nini

I just want to let the people know that we've been here for two hours. I don't know how long the edit's going to be but we've been having a goodass time.

Ben

I think we just take, like, the necessary stuff for the episode and then just release a bonus episode and just call it the David Cut. [David laughs]

David

It's the David Cut where I talk in a gravelly voice. 

Ben

David, since we are together we have to do the thing for Nini because she's been waiting for it for a long time. 

Let's remind our listeners something very important: Dick is abundant.

David

And low in value. 

Ben

Dick futures are not a safe investment. 

David

The NASDICK is trending down.

Nini

[crying] The NASDICK…

Ben

I'm making sure it's the NASDICK—I said NASDICK and I almost killed Ben. The first time I said the NASDICK is trending down and almost killed one of my best friends.

Nini

[laughs] On that note, I think it's time to wrap, and we will bid you all adieu until the fall. David, Ben, say bye to the people. We out.

David

Bye! Thank you guys for having me! It was great! 

Ben

Peace!

[arenabreadandbiscuits]

✨ Art Commissions Open w/ Writing Commissions Mentioned Too ✨

PLEASE READ AND MAKE SURE YOU FULLY UNDERSTAND BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE HERE ON KY ACCOUNT PLEASE AND THANK YOU.

~

Hey everyone!

Give me ten dollars and I'll draw you a profile pic of your OC or a favorite character of yours.

Give me twenty and I'll draw you your OC AND your favorite character together. Something basic like cheek to cheek, cheek kisses, side hugs, etc. Just depends.

OPEN BELOW FOR MORE IMPORTANT INFORMATION BELOW PLS! Also please answer the poll below the cut if you really want to help me out.

If you don't have the money please reblog, reblog, REBLOG!

It's August 5 as I'm making this so I'll keep this open until September, meaning until then anyone and everyone can send in their comms before I shut this post down and start over in September. Let's see how this goes, if we do a good job I'd love to do something like this every month just to draw for people.

Imma push myself so I'll open 15 spots to do these commissions. I think well for one, outside of the fact that I get to practice my art if people pick me I do actually enjoy talking to everyone. Especially fans.

Notes to Consider:

Artist who needs and wants money. Been talking about getting one of those at home treadmills and other home gym equipment so I can work on my body and get it back to the right shape I want it so it doesn't play with my head and trigger something

I'll do lineart, coloring, and shading for these of course. I only take Cashapp, Venmo, cash one, etc.

I plan on returning to school next year if my body is up to conditions by that time. To do that I really want this at home gym equipment stuff. I was even thinking that if I get it I can make another account and document my workouts. Probably will be on discord or things like a second Twitter for me but it depends on y'all.

Please be above 18 when commissioning me. I'll check your account for one...and for two these things can already be stressful, I don't need someone else's child being added to that.

Other art commissions are available, highest pricing is like $105 but I gotta check again. I'll link the post HERE.

I'll do 10-20 for chibis, 15 to 25 for sketching, 35 to 45 for lineart and basic coloring. 50 for regular shading and highlights, 60 for second line of lineart because going over it a second time is better for me but also looks neater. 75+ dollars include multiple (up to five sketches) of how I thought about drawing your character/s. For the $105 I'll give the sketches but they'll be lineart neatly, the time lapse videos for your main piece and the sketches after, shout-outs to you for working with me, a short blurb for your character and/or ship. I know with the art community some argue that we over price. This is literally the bare minimum especially with everything I'm going through between being immobile for the most part, living with trauma in a household where people gave me said trauma, being mentally unstable and even needing money to get that checked on. I would prefer $105 for the whole bundle I listed above. If you don't want to pay the $105 then you aren't paying for the bundle. So don't worry.

Outside of school I'm hoping I can join a more serious outside gym later to keep my body in shape. I have an interest in boxing and tai quando so I'd love to join a community for that around me. Same for some sports like tennis which I used to play when I was a lot younger. I love swimming so a swimming class could be fun and I've always been anxious about this but I'd love nothing more than to join a fun dance exercise group thingy.

Gotta keep my dog up to date, I've been talking about getting his next check up but disability bills go so far when you are helping others in your house to pay for things... I went from 802 to currently 200 in just a few days. Please help me out guys I'm begging. I've started a thing for piggy banking but I've never done it before so it definitely takes self discipline. I'm hoping that with the funds I make here I can just put the money in the piggy bank and open it by January...

Um if check ins are needed I don't mind give one every couple days to a week.

I have to pay for some stuff a sibling broke while I was sicker and couldn't keep things safe...I'd like to get those fixed or replaced but a few hundred dollars were lost there too..

I still do writing commissions as well. Check that post HERE.

Here's some art that I've done recently for reference of what you COULD get but with these the characters will probably be more chibi-ish compared to my normal style ^^`

MY ART VVV:

Some of these I'm sure I've posted before but I need more things to draw y'all! Outside of the money I really hope I get to practice my drawing skills some more..

DM me or comment if you are interested.

Also here's a poll to enforce engagement ^^`

I'm serious guys. With the last poll on commissions people voted but I have yet to actually have anyone ask me about commissions or to do anything for them. If you don't have the money please don't vote, in a situation like mine the last thing I need is to get my hopes up.

If you are also serious and stand of your word then I'm happy to meet you in my dms for further communication.

Oh and preferably I would appreciate drawing for characters that are in the same fandom I'm in. You'll find a list of those fandoms HERE so check those out before texting me or asking me anything. No I will not conform to a request just because I need the money, pick a fandom that I share with you and we should have no issues.

I'll also post any commissions I get either here on Tumblr, on Twitter, deviantart, and/or Tiktok. (I'll post on all.) If you want to be mentioned when I post let me know that before I actually post. I'll warn you when I am.

If you have any questions on these RULES or anything please dm me before ever actually sending in money. DONT SEND ME ANYTHING UNTIL WE BOTH COME TO A FIRM AGREEMENT ON WHAT OUR INTERACTION WILL BE, pls and thank you. I already had one person who didn't read my rules before sending money and tried to put that all on me...I don't need that again.

Just to make sure it doesn't happen again I'll even ask you three questions revolving around this post when you dm me just to make sure you ACTUALLY read it.

Thank you to anyone who's made it this far, bigger thank you to those happy and ready to help me. I look forward to hearing from you guys!

I'm really hoping I blow up for this post Lord Please.

[penrose-quinn]

Hi Pen 😁

I'm thrilled you rb the writing ask post! I was secretely hoping you would so I could ask you some questions 😳. If you're not too busy and you still feel like it, I'd be super interested in 6), 11), 13), 50) and 58) (I hope it's not too much, feel free to skip some questions if you want)

I hope you're doing okay, please take good care of yourself and have a nice day ❤💗!

Hi Obsidian 💕

Thank you for asking! Ohh, I’m really not sure if I have interesting answers, but I’m flattered that you want to ask me anyway!! RL failed me so I’m actually bailing it atm haha. Dw not too much at all, I enjoyed the questions! I just hope I’m not overbearing with my answers. They’re a bit lengthy 👉👈

Likewise! Hoping you always have an awesome day and take care!! (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*✲ﾟ*｡⋆

6. What’s the last line you wrote?

Turned out to be more than a line, but I’ll just let this one slip! This one is from GL chap 11, just a snippet between Shin and Izana.

No one ever told him that nicotine shouldn’t be something he was supposed to crave – he didn’t mean to poison you the way he did – though he would to his little brother back then and it spared him a few more years until he could flicker one by himself on the same harbor, the same shade of night. Someday, the Black Dragon embroidered on his back.

11. Do you write scenes in order, or do you jump around?

I never write things in order lol. I jump around so much that any poor soul who takes a peek of my notes will be so confused. I see it more as stitching up a bunch scenes together and then hoping it makes sense in post-editing. I'm sadly not organized enough to plot down what'll happen point for point. I go with the flow and what feels right 😔

13. Do you listen to music while you write? If yes, what have you been listening to recently?

Yup! I rarely work in complete silence in anything. My thoughts are too loud and it's hard for me to concentrate without music or some form of noise in the background. Currently, well mostly, As It Was by Harry Styles since I'm planning to use that as a header for the next chapter in GL. Somebody to Love by Queen because I'm thinking of Shin lol. Was even debating whether I should put this as the header at first. Ship to Wreck and Delilah by Florence + The Machine for GL!MC because nothing beats a soulful song about love and self-destruction. Hmm, a few songs from Metric, POWERS, and The Smiths in between. I'm sorry this is a lot of different genres 😅 but I usually run through multiple songs to find that specific mood for scenes.

50. How would you describe your writing style?

Oof, this is a hard one. I’m not sure how to describe it, though I suppose when it’s comes to my writing I cull out as much words as possible but still try - emphasis on try :’) - to make it vivid, evocative, and surreal in a sentence. I guess this comes from attempting to emulate Japanese writers and poets since they're such masters at capturing the right words while being so descriptive and subtle in a few, simple sentences. 

Though I rely more on how people describe my writing because I don’t want to think too deeply about it haha. A friend and mutual of mine once described it as something that should be read multiple times because after every reread, they find new meanings to the words and actions of the characters, that there are these hints they have to work to find, just the 'blink-and-you'll-miss-it' nature of it. This comment always made my heart skyrocket ever since. That, and the stream of consciousness one from three respected writers (Hi Obsidian 💓) from three completely different fandoms. That one surprised me the most because all of you literally said the same thing and it made me happy :)

58. Do you have a favorite piece of figurative language you’ve written?

It's hard for me to cite a certain piece because I've already written a lot to recall something specific to be a favorite and I like my writing, even though I still think it's amateur. When it comes to figurative language, a pattern I like and notice is 'lost and found', death, distance, tenderness and violence, ghosts or whatever supernatural entity really, the act of bleeding, the act of devouring, and eyes that reveal more about the observer than the object of their observation.

It's the setting too! Seasons, surroundings, places, and even history/time as a way to convey the innermost emotions, sentiments, identities, and gradual changes of the characters and their relationships. Everything blends in so much that what's happening is surreal and a little vague which is which, what's tangible or not, is it really the rain or the sound of someone's heartbeat. That kind of thing 😊

[rexismycopilot]

Hey Rex I’m feeling pretty crushed this week and was wondering if you had any snippets or HCs to share? I am so grateful for all your updates I’ve probably read the new 50 shades and the company of three 30 times since they posted which sounds a little pathetic now that I’ve written 😔

Oh no it's not pathetic at all!!!

If it helps, I think I'm going to have a short prologue to the company of three done today (it's mostly talking, but you all should know by now how much i love the talking parts) because i'm very much trying to distract myself from an appointment i have tomorrow that I really really don't want to go to lol

I'm so glad you're finding some comfort from 50 shades and from the company of three fic. I loved writing both of them, so to have you say that means a lot to me.

I'll let you in on a secret about what happens in the next chapter of 50 shades though! Anakin finds out the difference between playful bratting and testing limits versus actually acting on anger.

And I don't have anything kinky or explicit necessarily, but I do have a little snippet for you from the Zygerria arc if you are so interested:

It was after hours. He shouldn’t even be allowed in, but he could maybe sneak inside. He could sneak in, tell Obi-Wan to shut up and listen for once. That maybe, just maybe, he knew what he was talking about.

He glanced behind him and opened the door. Avoiding the medical droids was fairly easy, but navigating his way through the halls without the watching eyes of the medical corps was much more challenging.

But not impossible.

Anakin opened the door to Obi-Wan’s room and stepped inside, the silence overwhelming him.

Obi-Wan’s sleeping, he berated himself.

“I’m not sleeping, Anakin,” Obi-Wan said quietly in the darkened room.

Anakin shut the door with a hiss and crossed the small room to Obi-Wan’s bedside.

“Anakin, I-”

“No, you listen to me,” Anakin said through clenched teeth, unsure how he jumped to anger so easily. Even in the darkened room, he could see the incredulous look that crossed Obi-Wan’s face. “You don’t get to just throw me out,” he said in a hushed whisper, trying to keep his anger contained.

“I didn’t-”

“And you just told Ahsoka about my past,” he snarled.

Obi-Wan raised his voice to talk over Anakin. “You needed-”

“No!” Anakin barked, not caring how loud he was. “You need me!” He let the words linger in the dark room - a faint light flickering from the medical equipment.

“Well?” Anakin accused when Obi-Wan didn’t answer. “You have nothing you want to say right now?” he spat. “I find that hard to believe.”

The only sound in the room was Anakin’s labored breathing.

No, not the only sound. Anakin winced as he calmed down enough to finally listen.

Obi-Wan was crying.

“Obi-Wan,” Anakin’s voice cracked and he quickly closed the distance between them. “Obi-Wan, I’m sorry, I’m sorry,” he tried desperately.

Obi-Wan tried to shrug off Anakin’s hands around his shoulders and Anakin moved them to cup Obi-Wan’s head. His anger suddenly seemed so foolish - so… selfish.

He kissed along Obi-Wan’s cheeks, drying his tears. That spoiled word came to mind, one that had so often and easily come to his lips in moments like these, but now…

“Obi-Wan,” he whispered instead.

“I’m alright, Anakin,” Obi-Wan rasped. “I’m only-”

[visceralcoma]

I'm reading your post about The Mess, and I believe you, but I'm finding it pretty hard to understand who is in the right and who is in the wrong with your wording :(

Admittedly I did write those posts between the hours of 12 AM and 7AM. So not the most clear so I get why it’s hard to understand.

But, and I’ll probably get slack for this, there is no who is right and who is wrong. There are various shades of grey in this.

The only one to draw sides, arbitrarily might I add, was by cullenvhenan at the supposed behest of elffyness/bluhawke.

In reality it was more like a bunch of separate townspeople all seeing a public stoning about to happen and the judge is reading out the so called charges but none of it matches the evidence presented. So each unconnected townsperson went “what the heck that’s wrong/incorrect/a stretch” simultaneously. And instead of letting the bystander effect keep us immobile we all acted independently. Which is why it’s confusing, and was really hard to compile into something cohesive.

Because the charges were racism, yet the evidence given was for oversexualization and preoccupation with sexually dominant portrayals of a white character. But that evidence as a charge would have been laughed out of the public courtroom that is tumblr. The self-appointed judge would not have been taken seriously, and been labeled (rightly so imo) as a prude. So instead the self appointed judge tried to stretch the evidence to fit the charge of racism because as a website, we’ve gotten used to people just accepting on face value accusations of racism. Disregarding the existence of bad faith takes (case in point). But there are those of us who always check to make sure the evidence matches the charge. And because you don’t hear a blow back like this very often from various bipoc, it’s because the charges normally mostly match at least 50% of the evidence. But in this case they didn’t, they really did not. Hence why bipoc across the fandom came out to say “hey uhhhh no this is incorrect.”

So sorry anon, I can’t give you a clear answer on who is right and who is wrong. Just try to understand what was said as best you can, read more and educate yourself and form your own opinion on the matter. It’s all I will ever ask. I don’t try to tell people what to think, only provide information and note patterns of behavior.

edit: just saw your follow up ask nonnie! WELP! Guess you figured it out on your own.

[becca-e-barnes]

The "minors DNI" posts that I've been seeing crop up everywhere by fic writers are always so interesting to me.

First and foremost, I 100% support your decision to post a "minors DNI" for your safety and their safety. You're being responsible, doing your due diligence as a responsible adult, and trying to ensure that everyone enjoys what you put out there in a safe way.

And I know you specifically have not said this so this is not a slight on you by any means, but I think you'd be more open to the discourse of such an interesting topic like this—the problem I have with some fic writers is that is them saying they will block anyone who does not have their age posted in their blog.

This, I believe, is an incredibly dangerous precedent to set. On the one hand displaying your age if you are over 18 seems like a non-issue, right? Sure. But setting the precedent that people should display their age in their blog encourages minors to share their age on the internet which in turn can make them an easier target.

Personal preference for me—I'm a thirty-two year old lady (plz sing this appropriately) and do not share my age in my tumblr because, well I don't want to.

We're all technically violating TOS anyway, so it doesn't really matter if a minor interacts with your fic or not at this point—by interact I mean like/reblog/comment, not DMing you to talk about sexual stuff. That stuff you should absolutely block/delete for obvious legal and safety reasons.

And while I understand the legality thing, if you are not explicitly engaging with said minor, there's not a whole bunch that could hold up in court. How many lawsuits do you think E.L. James gets for 13 year olds waltzing into a bookstore or buying 50 shades of grey off amazon and reading it? There was actually an interesting article written about the "common sense" engagement with this book back in 2012.

Anywho, you are right to ask and set a boundary, and do what you feel is right to protect yourself and using the DNI minor blanket statement is ultimately a good thing, especially if it's a personal uncomfortableness with minors reading your work. However, even if a minor just decided to lie and say they were 21 and read your stuff anyway, unknowingly interacting with a minor is just as bad legally as knowingly doing so so at the end of the day, we're still just taking risks. The safest thing for all of us would probably be to not interact with anyone or ask everyone to use anon, but there's not fun or friendship in that. Your mutual who has stated they're 25 could still be 16 and you wouldn't know it.

My perspective may also just be entirely outdated as well because I grew up in the internet age of it being a lawless wasteland and everyone lied about everything, so I don't see the value in trying to police my work when people will just read it anyway and I don't have any control over that at the end of the day other than to tag appropriately and/or not post anything at all ever.

This was long and not necessary to answer, I'm just always fascinated by the rigor at which fanfic writers are so quick to banish people for not putting their age in their bios when I think it is inherently more dangerous for minors to do so because it puts a target on their back.

Before I start, I recognise that we’re of the same line of thought! I saw this long message and panicked thinking that someone had taken an issue with my stance on it and I’m glad that’s not the case 🙈 Anything I raise here is in the interest of discussion and I completely respect your point of view. 💗

This is really interesting actually and truth be told, I’ve avoided any discussion on this topic for a very long time for fear that I won’t adequately explain my stance on it. I feel like I’ve had a chance to do that and I hope it’s been taken up by everyone as I intended.

I will admit; as a minor, I read smut. Without going into detail, it entirely warped my perspective on how relationships should look. To provide a little context on my stance, at 14/15 (and younger), I had no business reading the things I was reading. Unfortunately, I was in a “relationship” at the time and I fully believed that I had to engage with my boyfriend in ways that mirrored what I was reading. I ended up in situations I didn’t want to be in. To me, it’s my responsibility as a writer and as someone who learned the hard way, to ensure that younger people don’t make the same mistakes I did.

I do fully agree, minors stating their real age on their blog raises all sorts of different issues, as you rightly said. You’re absolutely right, to a minor there are no advantages to displaying your real age on here. Fic writers will block you, creeps will be more likely to engage with you. So I fully understand that this might seem like a reason to lie or provide no age at all.

Leading on from that though, if a minor lies on their profile and claims to be over 18 and they interact with my smut, from a legal perspective, that is not going to have any repercussion on me. I have put my disclaimers up, I vet as many profiles as I can and I do everything I would be reasonably expected to do in the eyes of the law. (This isn’t an area of law I studied in significant depth but that standard of reasonable expectation would still apply). I do as much as I can to protect myself and them.

You brought up 50 Shades and I understand your point but the issue here is not just the fic itself. If anyone comments/ reblogs my fic, I like to send a little reply back! I love when people take the time to give me feedback and I want to thank them for it, as a lot of other writers do! The issue here being that if the blog commenting is a minor, the writer would be engaging in a conversation about sexual material with a minor. And that’s fucking messy. This is mainly where fics differ from a teenager buying a copy of 50 shades. In that situation, there’s no interaction there between the author and the underage fan so it loses that personal element.

On the issue of blogs with no age, I see where you’re coming from and I see that you both read and write fanfiction. But I also see it from the other perspective given that a lot of writers like to do as much as possible to protect themselves and potential minors.

I totally support that’s a boundary that you set and it’s your choice. In the same sense that it’s a fic writer’s choice to protect themselves by blocking you. It’s a matter of boundaries clashing at the end of the day. I really do see both sides here. I’m a really organised person so honestly, if anyone wanted to send me a private message just confirming they’re over 18, I’d put them all into a list to make sure I don’t accidentally block them for interacting. But of course, not every writer would be able to do that and I’m sure many readers would want to do that either! I just see it as the only way to compromise on that issue and keep everyone happy.

Thank you for sending me this! I hope I covered everything and if I haven’t been clear enough in some areas, feel free to come back to me! 🙈 And I really appreciate actually having a discussion on here! It’s so great to hear others’ points of view in a nice, respectful way. Tumblr loses that sometimes! Have a lovely evening 💗

[imagining-in-the-margins]

I'm here! Finally answering these Anon Asks!

1. It is real (for now) 😅 It'll be very different than before - exclusive to Paramount+, not including all of the original cast*, only 10 episodes, and will be focused on one case rather than a procedural.

* The main S15 cast was invited back. Kirsten is not returning, and I think Daniel Henney will be busy on his new show. Matthew mentioned not really wanting to, but he was willing to reconsider. Paget and Joe have been very vocal supporters of the reboot, but Paget has been calling for fans to support her in negotiations.

We'll see. Not much has been decided yet. You can read more here.

2. You're my favorite and I hope you get all the hugs and kisses you desire, friend 😚

3. Yeah... I really blame the writers. They clearly wanted her to be some weird, stereotypical "spunky" girl. But, naturally, the writing team is riddled with misogyny and a deep misunderstanding of women, lmao. RLC is an amazing actress. I don't know what she could have done to save that mess of a character.

I really think her character was unnecessary on top of all of that. Spencer's final arc was about how he spent his whole life basing his worth and purpose on the women in his life (his Mother, JJ, Maeve, Cat). Date Night would have been a lot more meaningful if, after he got closure with Cat, he realized that he was still his own person, and would continue to exist after she was gone, and that he was going to be okay.

They could've done something great... but, alas...

4. Awe, of course! Like I mentioned before, I am planning on collecting Dad!Spencer fics to post on Father's Day. I hope that they all comfort you and reassure you that, even though your Father failed you, there are still so many people who will love and appreciate you, and we want you to know it!

5. So, there is a sequel to the book (which I have not read!) where he ends up in a remarkably similar situation. Here is the summary:

A month after narrowly surviving the most harrowing night of his life, Chip Taylor is living in a seedy, pay-by-the-week motel in a sleepy coastal town in Florida. He still has most of the 68 grand he and his crazy ex-girlfriend stole back in Tennessee, but he's a man living at loose ends, directionless and without a plan. He's drinking too much and surrendering to too many of the same temptations that landed him in so much trouble in the first place. It isn't long before Chip finds himself wrapped up in another nightmarish descent into bloody madness and chaos. And this time his survival is more in doubt than ever.

That is, obviously, super depressing, lmao. Probably realistic, too, honestly. I personally like to believe that he got a decent job and lived a modest life. He met a very sweet person that treated him well. He got therapy and spent the rest of his life being perfectly mediocre and happy about it. But to be honest, I haven't thought about it a lot!

6. Angst is a category of literature, although the term is usually used exclusively in fanfiction. Here is a simple definition from Urban Dictionary that, I feel, summarizes it well:

An adjective describing a situation or literary piece which contains dark, depressing, angry, and/or brooding emotions from the participating characters.

7. Ugh, I'm so sorry that you had a bad experience. Medications can be so hard. For you for take steps, even in such a state, to try to self-soothe is extremely impressive and you should be proud of yourself!

I'm glad you exist, too, and I'm so happy to hear that my mindless Spotify collections provided you some comfort in such an awful time.

I hope you have a wonderful day, too. Long-term medication regimens are seriously exhausting, and you are doing a great job. Keep it up, friend! You deserve so much happiness in life, and I'm so proud of you for taking care of yourself the best you can.

8. [NSFW] Hi friend! I can't say much on this subject, as I'm not a lesbian myself, but I do want to assure you that I've heard other lesbians, gay men, and aroace people express similar sentiments!

The truth is, to me, erotica is completely different aspect of enjoyment than the physical acts of sex. There are many things I enjoy reading or watching that I would never engage in physically. When you view erotica as a form of expression, separate from the expression of physicality, you might find that the true divide isn't the gender of the characters, but the emotions and connections established.

TL;DR, I'm very sorry you're feeling confused, but I know a ton of lesbians who enjoy reading het erotica, and you shouldn't necessarily feel like you are less valid of a lesbian because you like erotica works (written predominantly by women, mind you!).

Also, if your friends mock you for reading fanfiction, they kind of sound like jerks. There isn't much difference between fanfic and published works such as Outlander, which have remarkable success. You could always just say you read that (the smut scenes are, IMO, significantly less cringy in Outlander than other mainstream erotica, such as 50 Shades).

I hope that you get some relief from the frustration you're feeling. If you decide that you're bisexual and just heavily lean to women, I am happy to celebrate that with you, but I'm just as excited to celebrate if you decide that you are still a lesbian! 💕

Best of luck, friend. I'm happy you're here no matter what ☺️

[spicycreativity]

Soft-Shoe Shuffle - Ch 1

Chapter: 1/12 Rating: T (for language) Content Warnings: Canon-typical Remus content. This chapter only: alcohol use Characters: All Pairings: Moceit, background Prinxiety, background Intrulogical (yes I played a little game of "pair the spares") Additional Tags: Hey it's the fic I published on Anon because I was embarrassed of how utterly pretentious it is!, post-PoF, sickfic, dirty poetry, humor interspersed with philosophy and Janus-typical pontification, this is VERY speculative and will get Jossed in the future lmao Summary: After claiming his place in the Light and coming face-to-face with the consequences of his actions, Janus finds himself unwillingly re-calibrating his moral compass. For selfish reasons, of course. But one apology snowballs into several, and soon he's running around the Mindscape with a low-grade fever and a guilty conscience as he desperately tries to regain some sense of self. Oh, and he's definitely not falling in love with Patton, so don't even bring it up. One Last Note: I wrote this in an ADHD fugue state. It is HEAVILY influenced by Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment, but there are also references to poetry and various other works of literature. I also deliberately used symbols, themes, and motifs. Most of them are pretty in your face except for the recurring ouroboros, which is used as a symbol of rebirth. ...Told you it was pretentious.

When you wake up to the promise of your dream world comin' true With one less friend to call on, was it someone that I knew? Away you will go sailing in a race among the ruins If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon

Janus appeared in the Dark side of the Mindscape, elation swelling in his chest. Even the ringing headache and bitter taste in his mouth couldn't hollow the unfamiliar triumph that warmed him to the core. Caught up in his own thoughts, it took a moment for him to register the sight before him: Remus, upside-down on the couch, his brow furrowed and face an alarming shade of purple.

For a moment, Janus stood stock-still as he tried to get his bearings. He must have been more flustered than he'd realized-- He'd been aiming for his bedroom.

But here he was, staring down at Remus, who was definitely going to burst a blood vessel (or several) if he didn't flip over soon.

"That's not horrifying at all," Janus said, thinking it would be rude to dismiss Remus, especially since he had probably been eavesdropping. He had likely heard everything. Everything. Even the ugly parts.

"Do you remember when Thomas read that post about Nutty Putty Cave?" Remus asked in a strained, strangled voice. "That spelunker who died because he got stuck upside-down?"

"No," Janus said, before realizing his mistake. "Yes." He definitely wanted Remus to remind him of the gory details.

"That's what I thought," Remus said with a wicked grin.

Janus sighed through his nose. Remus, though he thrived on attention, seemed content enough to continue his experiment by himself. On the other hand, if Janus didn't bring up a certain insult he'd levied at Roman, Remus most certainly would, and at a time where it would cause the most upset and turmoil. Better for Janus to deal with it now, even if he would have to fight the tension pulling his muscles taut. He wanted to dance. He wanted to scream.

Hesitation proved to be Janus' downfall, and by the time he'd opened his mouth to broach the subject at hand, Remus had beaten him to the blow. "You're not usually this quiet, Oralboros. Snake got your tongue?"

Janus, again, sighed. Rather than answer, he doffed his hat, set it on the coffee table, and clumsily arranged himself upside-down next to Remus. The change in position immediately made his head throb. He ignored it. "I definitely meant it when I called you 'evil'."

Remus' eyes widened in faux-shock. "You called me evil ?" he shrieked, voice ringing out high and clear. "Me? How dare you. I'm an angel!"

At least Remus was taking it well. "Sarcasm is my thing," Janus said, realizing that he might make it out of this without having to properly apologize.

For some reason, Patton's face flashed into his mind, and a subsequent twinge of guilt made his tongue go sour. Fine. If there was ever a time to start telling uncomfortable truths… "But I am sorry I said that."

"Wow!" Remus laughed. "You must be upset." A red stain began to spill across his left eye. "You don't apologize."

"It’s not like I care about your feelings or anything." Janus would have liked to have drawn himself up to his full height, but it was impossible to do while upside-down. "As much as I'm enjoying watching your blood vessels slowly burst, would you please turn over before you hurt yourself? I've suffered enough psychological trauma for today."

"Oh, fine." Remus kicked his legs and landed neatly on his toes like a gymnast.

Janus, by contrast, got his arms tangled in his capelet and nearly folded himself in half before he found his balance again. "I meant to do that," he said, turning to grab his hat so Remus wouldn't see the blush on his face.

The sudden sensation of blood draining from his head made the room whirl. He steadied himself against Remus' shoulder until it slowed somewhat, but nothing could dampen the horrible ringing in his ears.

"Well," he said, adjusting his shirt. The sudden appearance of his conscience had taken the wind out of his sails more than he cared to admit, and all thoughts of dancing bled out of him along with a good deal of energy. "I'm not going to go scream into my pillows until I tire myself out."

"Being an agent of chaos is hard work," Remus said with a sage nod, "but that doesn't sound very relaxing, Mr Self Care."

"It's a form of meditation, if you think about it," Janus said.

Remus made a face. "You know I don't do that."

"...Meditate?"

"No, think."

"Ah. Well." Janus made only a token attempt to hide his fond smile. "Good night, Remus. Please stay up late and injure yourself."

"Can do, Snakeypoo.”

Janus turned. It was close enough, he might as well walk to his bedroom, especially considering how well his last attempt at appearing in it had gone.

The reason why that had been so difficult became apparent in mere moments. Janus froze in the hall and dropped to his knees at the giddy wave of horror and delight that made him too light-headed to stand.

He knelt in front of the empty stretch of wall where his door had been previously.  Heat flooded his face.

"Jay?" The rounded toes of Remus' boots appeared in his line of sight. Janus zeroed in on them, the mud splatters and stains on the soft leather. "You have an aneurysm or what?"

Janus, unable to speak, motioned for Remus to turn around. He couldn't deal with this right now.

"Ohhh," said Remus. "Well. Good luck with that ." He hauled Janus to his feet. "So you're a boner fide good guy now, huh?"

Janus stared over Remus' shoulder at the empty stretch of wall where his door used to be. "That depends entirely on who you ask."

Remus shrugged and rose up on his toes. "You can scream into my pillows instead, if you want."

"As tempting as that is…" Janus trailed off, his eyes still fixed on the wall. It was tempting, despite the constant chaos in Remus' room. But he'd have to face the Light side sooner or later. It wasn't like he could move his room back, not without psychologically damaging Thomas and undoing all the work he'd done. "I'm really looking forward to getting insulted some more."

"Alright," Remus said with a shrug. "Try not to throw me under the bus this time, alright? Unless it's a real bus…" His gaze became dreamy, unfocused. "And it's doing 50 in a school zone and there's a whole pack of screaming kids in the crosswalk--"

"Goodbye, Remus." Janus turned and left.

--

The barrier between the "dark" and the "light" sides of Thomas' brain had been a joint venture. It would have been there in some form no matter what, but it was Janus and Roman (with Patton's tacit blessing) who had worked to put up something more physical between them.

Janus ducked under the red curtain, trepidation percolating in his stomach, but what he found on the other side was anticlimactic to say the least: It was dead silent on this side of the barrier.

Janus wasn't sure what he'd been expecting. He knew by now that the so-called "Lights" had issues working out their interpersonal issues, and this most recent conflict wasn't the kind of thing you just got over. It did follow that they would all go off to lick their wounds for a time.

Hesitantly, toe-to-heel, Janus crept down the hall. It felt for all the world like he was sneaking around a vast hotel, right down to needlessly ornate design on the plush carpeting. That was probably Roman's doing.

Janus focused, trying to call the Mindscape to work for him. He wanted to go to his room.

The Mindscape listened. Janus turned a corner and found a row of doors stretching down yet another brightly-lit corridor. His eye was immediately drawn, not to the brilliant yellow of his own door, but to the figure huddled in front of it: Patton sat with his arms wrapped around his legs, forehead resting on his knees.

"Looking for someone?" Janus asked, slightly louder than necessary.

Patton jerked his head up. "Oh! Janus!" He plastered an unconvincing smile on his face. "You sure pop star-tled me."

Scaring Patton hadn't brought Janus nearly the level of schadenfreude he'd thought it would. He crossed his arms over his chest, extending a third to help Patton up. "Take your time getting to the point.”

"Oh." Patton accepted Janus' proffered hand and got to his feet. Warmth spilled from him, permeating the fabric of Janus' glove and gently heating his palm. "Well, it's just…" He took a deep breath. "I noticed your door and I thought-- Well, I wanted to make you feel welcome!"

A high-pitched tone resonated in Janus' skull. He bit down on the inside of his cheek to keep from wincing at the mounting pressure-pain-exhaustion in his temples. "Aren't you just a saint ." Patton's face fell. Janus fought the urge to swear aloud. He usually had a better handle on himself, and he knew better than to alienate potential allies. "I mean, thank you, Patton. Truly. I appreciate it." Patton had proven himself useful. Janus should at least cultivate that relationship, even if it meant a little discomfort.

"Have you eaten?" Patton asked. "It's a little late, but I could make something if you wanted." He paused. "Maybe we could play cards or something." Another pause. "O-only if you want to, I mean."

Janus let his face remain impassive even as he internally cringed at the idea of staying awake for even another second. It would be so easy to brush Patton off with a few honeyed words and disappear beyond the barrier of his door. But Patton had stood up for him today, or at least he'd tried to. Janus sighed. Quid pro quo. "That sounds like an utter waste of time."

"Are you… I'm sorry, sometimes I can't tell when you're…"

"Yes, Patton. That sounds lovely."

Patton actually hopped in place, an adorable little jig that absolutely didn't send a confusing little shockwave of fondness through Janus' ribcage. "Really?"

"Really," Janus lied.

He followed Patton down the hall into the living room, which opened into the dining room and the kitchen. Janus studied his surroundings, trying to take in as much as his exhausted faculties would allow. Even in the absence of other Sides, the living room felt warm and welcoming. All the lights were on, and they bathed everything in gentle golden light .

"You're awfully quiet," Patton said.

Janus shook himself. "I was just getting my bearings."

"I guess you've never really been over here, huh?" Pattton opened the refrigerator. Was he actually going to cook , instead of just manifesting something? How quaint. "Do you like grilled cheese?"

It had been a long, confusing day. Doublespeak came to Janus as naturally as breathing, but he was obviously running circles around Patton even when he wasn't trying to. "Yes," he said, hoping to telegraph his sincerity by not emoting at all.

It seemed to work. Patton studied him for a moment before turning back to the fridge. "Then that's what I'll make."

Janus took advantage of this temporary distraction to clamber onto one of the barstools. The slick velvet of his capelet tended to disagree with surfaces like wood and vinyl, and he needed a moment to arrange things so he didn't look as unbalanced as he felt.

He watched Patton work in the kitchen, a detached coolness washing out the scene. Quid pro quo, he reminded himself when he felt his facade begin to slip. He owed Patton this.

He certainly didn't feel the slightest twinge of guilt, that he had been the one to orchestrate this breakdown. Yes, the Light Sides had loaded the gun, but in the end it was Janus who had pulled the trigger.

He shook his head and thought about playing cards, good Bicycle playing cards with holes punched through them like they'd come from a casino. "What should we play?" he asked, pulling the deck from his breast pocket.

Patton looked up from the stovetop, his eyes flicking to the cards in Janus' hand. "Do you know Kings in the Corners?"

"Not personally, no."

Patton laughed, but there was something cold about it. "It's really simple," he said. "I'll show you how to play and you can tell me if you like it."

--

It was nearly impossible to cheat at Kings in the Corners. Janus doubted this had been a calculated measure on Patton's part, doubted he had the capacity for that kind of foresight, but he respected it just the same.

They played in funereal silence, staring each other down across the light wood of the dining room table. Janus, ill-inclined to take off his gloves, utilized a napkin to keep from staining them with melted butter from the grilled cheese Patton had made. Neither one of them smiled. Neither one of them spoke.

Janus pulled a card from the deck to indicate the end of his turn and glanced up at Patton. His face was somber, almost sorrowful, and it clashed against the gentle domesticity of the dining room, with its floral table runner and mismatched placemats.

Janus started to laugh.

"What is it?" Patton asked, cheeks darkening. "What? Do I have something on my face?"

Janus swallowed down another peal of laughter and cleared his throat, unable to wholly restrain the smile tugging at the corners of his lips. "You look like I’m holding you here at gunpoint." It was somewhat ironic, considering Janus was the one who felt like he couldn't leave.

"What?" Patton smiled, but it was more akin to an offering than an expression of joy.

"It’s not really funny. " Janus wasn’t quite sure how to make Patton understand.

Patton sat back with a sigh, placing his cards facedown on the table. "But I guess it is pretty funny, huh? In a really sad way."

Janus almost asked what was sad about it before realizing that Patton probably missed his friends. Instead he said, "Yes" and stifled a yawn behind his free hand.

"I'll make coffee!" Patton leapt to his feet and was off to the kitchen before Janus could so much as blink.

The newfound solitude made it that much harder for Janus to ignore his headache, which had only worsened in the hour or so he'd been playing cards with Patton. Despite the nonchalant facade he'd tried so hard to project, he'd been holding himself tense.

Maybe the night (or morning, at this point) would be easier to tolerate if he had, say, a bit of gold rum.

The corner of a flask dug into Janus' hip. He smiled.

"Just how late are you planning on staying up?" he asked Patton when the latter returned holding two mismatched mugs.

"Oh, I don't know," Patton said. Lied. He set a mug down in front of Janus and then resumed his seat, the cards forgotten by his elbow. "I'm… A little scared of what tomorrow will be like."

Janus eased the flask out of his pocket. "Rum?"

"Oh, um," Patton said, staring at the flask. "I don't know…"

Janus raised an eyebrow, working something out. He landed on it a millisecond later: Patton wanted to be convinced. Easy enough. Janus opened the flask and poured what he hoped was a shot into his own mug. It was black, he noticed, except for the yellow snake that wrapped around it, its tail firmly in its own mouth. Ouroboros. "Surely you don't intend to make me drink alone?"

As Janus had expected, Patton buckled the second he was pushed. "I guess not."

It was funny, Janus mused as he carefully tipped rum into Patton's coffee, how lying was only off-limits when Janus suggested it. Hilarious.

But now wasn't the time for bitterness, now was the time to repay the debt he owed Patton. "Cheers," he said, pocketing the flask once more.

"Cheers."

Janus sipped his coffee. "You put milk in this," he observed.

Patton's smile was surprisingly sly. "I know you want me to think you take it black. Virgil did too, at first. I know you ‘Dark Sides’ have an image you like to uphold."

"And how does Virgil take his coffee now?" Janus asked, lifting an eyebrow.

"With Snickers-flavored creamer."

"Well, I do take my coffee black," Janus lied.

Patton's smile never faltered. "We'll see, kid-- Uh, Janus."

"Patton," Janus said, before he could start thinking about the implications of Patton wanting to call him 'kiddo,' "you are planning on sleeping tonight, aren't you?"

"Maybe eventually," Patton said, suddenly unable to look Janus in the eye. "At some point."

"Tomorrow will come whether or not you sleep. It's definitely better to pull an all-nighter and feel like garbage instead of facing everything with a clear head."

"I know." Patton leaned forward so he could rest his head on his hand.

For a moment, Janus was tempted to mirror him. Sitting up straight was becoming quite the chore. "I know how the others love a calm, rational discussion."

"Oh, I wish." Patton's expression turned wistful.

Janus stifled a yawn behind his hand. He had half-expected the coffee to counteract the depressant effect of the alcohol, but all he had to show for the combination was a racing heart.

"I'll be fine out here if you want to go to bed," Patton said. Without seeming to realize he was doing it, he brought his hand to his mouth and bit down on his thumbnail.

It was a tempting offer. A day ago, Janus would have taken it. After all, it wasn't like he cared about Patton outside of professional courtesy. They weren't friends. But guilt nagged at him and wouldn't let him entertain the idea of abandoning Patton for longer than a second.

"That's a remarkable impression of a window," Janus said, waiting for Patton to look confused before elaborating, "I can see right through you."

"You got me." Patton smiled sadly. "That's something I've always admired about you, Janus."

Now it was Janus' turn to be confused. "What?"

"You're so… clever."

Janus narrowed his eyes. "Please do keep trying to change the subject."

"It's just… I don't want to have to lie there and, and think about today and everything I did wrong. I hurt Thomas. I hurt my friends." Patton's eyes were shiny behind his glasses; the unshed tears sparkled in the light when he locked eyes with Janus. "Aren't you going to think about the same thing?"

Anger flared, perhaps prematurely, in Janus' chest. "About what you did wrong today?"

"About what you did wrong," Patton said timidly.

"I," Janus said icily, "didn't do anything wrong." He stared Patton down across the table, jaw set, daring him to push back. Let him lecture and nag, let him prove that he hadn't changed no matter what he said.

But Patton only nodded, his face lined with misery. "Okay," he softly. "I think you're right, Janus. We should go to bed."

Janus thought about how much faster he could get to bed if the table was cleared, and all the dishes and cards vanished in a blink.

"Um, Janus?" Patton said.

"Yes?"

"I don't regret everything that happened today."

"Oh?"

Patton only nodded and sank out.

Janus made a beeline for his own room; better to find his way there on foot rather than risk appearing in the wrong spot.

Once inside, he looked around to ensure nothing was amiss, eyes roving over the dark wood of his bookshelves and desk, his mirrored closet doors, the leather armchairs across from his bed.

Everything was exactly as Janus had left it. He nodded, satisfied, set his hat on the nightstand, and sprawled out of top of the covers without bothering to further undress.

One hazy thought crawled to the surface of his mind before he fell asleep: At least he wouldn't be one of the regrets haunting Patton tonight.

[autumn-foxfire]

I can def see where you're coming from with that but idk, when it comes to fandom work, when it's an anime/whatever made for younger teens and being posted on a place known for younger teenagers I do think people would have to be mindful, writing and Posting a trauma coping fic isn't gonna be completely understood/safe for people (with the amount of people who don't tag it correctly either) I think it's fine to write dark content if it's clear that what's happening is bad but writing daark content in the view of "this is sexy or something the mc wants", just in a fandom aimed at younger teens, that's just not a smart thing to do.

On the difference between the godsend of tagging and books in real life, it's def something to be addressed, 50 shades for example, things are portrayed as normal or healthy when they're not, which may not be clear for everyone. Like twight is really unhealthy and creepy but it's portrayed as romantic, and all those teen girls would have to grow up before they realised "nah this is weird" even if they still enjoy it. Books would really benifit from a similar warning system, those erotica books that mums pick up (j) can be so r@pey and gross but threre's no warning for it, and now I'm ranting about this. IT'S something lol.

So it's the same thing tbh, I guess cause novels and authors are unreachable, no one really thinks of the author when reading a novel but it's so easy to get into contact with someone on tumblr writing "this behaviour is desirable" unhealthy content when it just shows up in the tags for an anime character

Yeah, that's the issue with the discussion too. There are just so many factors to consider that it's hard to have an exact answer. With books we also have to consider that these are original works with original characters meanwhile content created in fandom are existing characters that already have an audience and you do have to be mindful about what you create if that fandom is occupied by younger people.

If you're going to create this type of content in these fandoms then you have to tag properly as all work like that should be tagged anyway. You may have the right to create what you want however people also have the right not to want to see that content and we should give them a way to filter it out.

I still don't think we should automatically assume that an author who writes these things actually believe them and I do want to have faith that people reading these types of work are reading it with the knowledge that what is depicted in fiction isn't something that should be replicated however it doesn't hurt to add tags that acknowledge that these depictions are unhealthy, if for the security for the author who then won't (hopefully) get hounded for writing it and for giving people a way to filter it out or acknowledge what they're getting into.

Edit: There's so much to consider like the spread of false information too T-T I say I want to have faith in both writers and readers but there are times when people don't know exactly how something works or the book could be reinforcing a bad and offensive stereotype and I do think these should be addressed as well... I'm contradicting myself, Nonnie, I'm sorry T-T This is what I mean when I say there isn't an exact answer...

[bourbon-ontherocks]

H! M! T! U! for the asks!

Thank youuuu!!! 😘😘😘

H: How would you describe your style? 

Mhhhh... Ironic. Overly dramatic. Wrong use of English prepositions due to lack of practice. Probably a little too verbose sometimes. Lots of (too many?) adverbs and adjectives. Tentative. A certain taste for dubious metaphors. 😂

M: Got any premises on the back burner that you’d care to share?

Already answered here, but it turns out I have a LOT of back burners these days...

So it's a story I wrote in the middle of quarantine and never finished because I didn't know what I was aiming at but I may have recently found a way out. It will be angsty, probably bitter and include the famous cuddle for warmth trope. Be also ready for some ants bites, so don't forget your insects sprays and your headlamps, we’re going to camp! Sort of.

T: Any fandom tropes you can’t stand? 

Fluff. High school/college AUs. Beth being characterized as ingenue and innocent, 50-shades style (kinda tired of the Pygmalion trope actually...). Brio baby unless it's presented as something extremely questionable like is it really a good idea (LEAVE! ELIZABETH'S! WOMB! ALONE!). Probably lots of other stuff, I'm grumpy 😈

U: Share three of your favorite fic writers and why you like them so much.

Already answered here but you're lucky enough that I have a lot of faves so here's another row!

- riosnecktattoo (@riosnecktattoo). Look here's someone who wrote one of the best characterized, angsty post S2 fic I've ever read as her debut story. And who's kept navigating between crackfics, poetry, and just writing style perfection ever since. How could I not?

- medievalraven (@medievalraven). I'm deeply ashamed to announce that I have yet to read her boxing AU, but her political AU has my heart forever. And she gave us Rio calling Beth MUFFIN, which she should get an award for!!!

- ms_scarlet (@mego42). Like, do I have to say why?? So just in case you wouldn't remember, she's just the girl who barged out of nowhere and into the fandom mid-season 3 overnight and wrecked us all with angst, excellents POVs and angry sex...

 

Ask me fanfic stuff!! (and I’ll probably take forever to answer them)

[wiz-witch]

I'm sorry for asking, but are you anti-anti?

Short answer: Yes. Obviously I have my squicks and triggers, but I'm never going to tell others they can't do their own thing just because I don't like it

Long answer: Fiction isn't a 1:1 reflection on reality, nor isn't it a 1:1 influence. Yes, things like normalization are real, but reading about illegal or dark things aren't going to automatically make you think they're okay in real life--if they do, you likely had at least some belief in it beforehand.

Plus, like I mentioned in the post I'm assuming is what brought up this question, reading about abusive relationships helped me recognize I was being abused and helped me deal with remaining stuck in the situation. If you want a more widespread example, look at 50 Shades of Grey. Yes, that book is horrible for more than one reason, but it prompted discussion on the differences between BDSM and abuse.

Fiction gives you a safe place to experience unsafe emotions. That's why horror is a popular genre and that's why we remember so many dark scenes from movies and shows of our childhoods.

As long as you tag your stuff appropriately and make it possible to avoid, I don't care what you create. I may side eye you a bit for certain things or go to my friends saying "why on earth would someone do something like this" (and I'm sorry, but if it's not tagged properly, I am reporting), but I also know I'd be a massive hypocrite if I tried to force people into my idea of what's "okay". After all, I know for a fact I write stuff other people would get uncomfortable with, and I like exploring darker themes such as abuse. YKINMATO and DD;DNE and all that good stuff.

Besides, we've seen what's happened in the past when we have "morality guidelines" on fandom

[punkscowardschampions]

Ali & Tommy

Ali: [Let us assume he has gone back to school now and this was a weekend affair] Ali: You forgot your 🕯 Ali: expect it in the post, minus the disappointed note from Ro I've taken out Ali: ✈️ trips not guilt trips, welcome Tommy: leave it in, LOVE to hear what she's gotta say about why I'M the one being a holy show Ali: You aren't respecting the sanctity of her offering, is very much the point and gist Ali: she put more letters to it, as standard Tommy: 'course she did Ali: It does mean a lot to her Ali: but yeah, nice to have my 📅 to myself again, can't lie Tommy: meant so much she fucked off soon as the 🎂 candles were out Ali: You know she isn't the party 'til dawn sort Ali: anyway, they'd be coming in for morning service 😅 Tommy: I know it's her party & she can 😭 if she wants to Ali: If I'd known that was the theme, could've made party bags with 🧅 & 🧻 Ali: well, at least you were in your element 🕺 and you kept Meena and Carly entertained Ali: the hostess not being overly concerned herself, like Tommy: this family's hostess with the mostest has & always will be me, honey Tommy: what else do they teach me at this school, like? Ali: I had no idea you were at finishing school, my apologies Ali: how's things with keeping a man then, Holly Housewife? Tommy: Why stop at strutting with 📚 on our heads when we could do it in 🩰 perfectly en pointe, carrying a sulky ballerina all the while? Basically a Latin motto Tommy: & yet I still can't keep a man, cheers for the reminder Ali: Maybe now you're of age they introduce the final string to your bow Ali: quadruple threat = 🎤🕺🎭🍆 Tommy: 😂🤞🙏 Tommy: stole your girl regardless, tell her to call me when she's slept off the festivities Ali: No doubt she will when she's between the next couple of parties 😜 Ali: your girl is here actually, helping Ro 'organise' her presents Ali: dunno where she parked her 🎃 Tommy: I'll join Fraze in the red corner 😍💋💔🤬🎯👿🥤🤡🥵🛑💘 Tommy: those dolls do go walk abouts if you don't keep a 👀 but obviously she was 🤞🙏 I was still there Ali: He might misconstrue that and come to fight for her honour Ali: 🤞🙏 she's in LDN too, naturally Ali: lots of them are haunted, but that last part of your sentence there is the MOST 😱 ever Ali: it's weird when you approach anything fuck boy like Tommy: miscommunication is his thing™ no hard feels or feelings full stop, 'course 💪🚫😭🚫😍 Tommy: what can I say? being back DOES things to me Tommy: it's all the positive masculine role models this family has Ali: Guess it beats a total lack of @Joseph Ali: though he sent her some book about musical theory so he still manages to be the favourite somehow 🤷 Ali: and hey, dad is the best Tommy: v catty & then cuddly of you, Kit Tommy: he doesn't respond to MY efforts at being a daddy's girl exactly the same way somehow 🤷 Ali: we're both living up to what's expected then 😼 Ali: could just be I'm better at it than you though Ali: if your ego will allow it Tommy: can't let our sister fly that flag alone, like Tommy: as for who's better at kissing the arse of authority figures, don't need to dignify that with an answer 'cause my school report will Tommy: you ain't never been a pleasure to have in class Ali: I might genuinely have to shoot myself if anyone ever said anything so asinine about me so you're right Ali: that would be such a waste of potential, not until I've lead a more scandal-filled existence Tommy: you could respect the hustle Tommy: it's getting me 🩰 perks Tommy: disciplined is the head that wears the 👑 hoe Ali: I know all about discipline, trust me Tommy: we've all read 50 shades, you can't take it as gospel Tommy: Ro could write a better bdsm bibe when she's done at church Tommy: bible* Ali: It's all fun and games 'til I walk in on her flagellating herself Ali: how are we explaining that to the shrinks Tommy: that she misunderstood a more sexy f word? Ali: we don't want to look like we're trying to lock her up for that Ali: way too retro, bro Tommy: She wants to be catholic Tommy: I didn't make the rules Ali: No, then da really would hate you Ali: she's got worse Tommy: Yeah Tommy: I know, no amount of drama from the golden couple could detract Ali: not that I haven't heard enough about that though Ali: guess there's too much to put in a passive-aggressive note Tommy: 🙄🥱😴 Tommy: She wasn't even THAT late & tbh I wouldn't have blamed her for doing a Joe no show Ali: I would've understood if she was upset when she wasn't coming Ali: I am when Joe doesn't, whatever Ali: but I think she was actually MORE upset that she did come in the end, and not just because she was messy, but because Ro thought she wouldn't Ali: I don't get it, they're complicated, always have been but ??? Tommy: she can't hold being a good sister over her, like you can't me being the most fabulous brother in existence 🏆 Tommy: the fuck ups are more fun to bring to a 🥊 Ali: I guess that's more likely than them being all 💕💞 Ali: but fucking hell, does it hurt to hope Tommy: it's hurting you 😿 Tommy: she'll be too hangry to hope Ali: I have no hope or agenda for your 🏆 or 👑 dear brother Ali: but seriously Ali: what does she want Tommy: like you said ???? Tommy: there's every chance I'm bringing too much McKenna magic to the motives & she don't wanna bear a grudge til the end of her days Ali: because it doesn't sound like her at all Ali: if you can't be honest in the DMs where can you, eh, to quote that romcom Ali: fucked if I know what to do about it right now though Ali: maybe I need to sleep off the festivities, or get something to eat Tommy: long as you're not so hysterical you run into the path of an oncoming car, to recall another faithful role of hers Ali: have you adapted that for the stage? Ali: get 5 of you to be the 🚗 Tommy: dibs 'cause I can't do the accent Tommy: not that loads of 'em posh kids can either Ali: they'll have spent enough time gentrifying the east end to have it down, offensively so but all adds to the hysterics Tommy: I'll pitch it then 💡 Tommy: go down better than her 🎤🎵 Ali: better than her when she got hit by the car, like Ali: give me credit or I'll turn up and make a SCENE Tommy: like I wouldn't be LIVING for that Tommy: if we are being honest in the DMS Ali: I'll work on my RICKKAAAAAAAAAAAY Ali: maybe can convince Ro to be Sharon Tommy: hang around your ma in law & you'll ace it in no time Ali: Ha Ali: she'd accept Peggy, not Pat Tommy: fair, Laoise's ma's the one more likely to express herself with big earrings & animal prints Tommy: but I don't know if Sam Mitchell is a favourable role for Carls, what did she ever even do? Ali: Are you trying to tell me it's NOT a look? 🤔 Ali: or that you rate Laoise's mum? Ali: The character, nothing, the OG actress lost her nose so we're all agreed that's a no Tommy: I'd rate seeing her da on the doorstep in nothing but a bow tie for how mortified she'd be when I uploaded it Tommy: Grant's also no, he knocked Martine on her arse way before that car Tommy: but if she's Phil, you're Sharon so that's a yeah from me, like Ali: Don't, her dad always gave me those vibes Ali: and you ain't actually on the street still to have to witness that 🤮 Ali: I don't know how she'll feel about going bald, I'll float it gently before getting out the clippers Tommy: Do Rock's while you're there, he looks feral Tommy: even that nonce wouldn't have him Ali: You know his ears would get chapped Ali: hair is essential or he'll fly away on the breeze Ali: and we'd all be devastated, obvs Tommy: don't start me thinking about that scene in Dumbo, cheers very much Tommy: 😭😭😭😭😭😭 Ali: Such a depressing film Ali: disney gives me bad vibes Tommy: the park is creepy & you won't catch me there Tommy: whether or not Walt was a Nazi it's still a nah from me Ali: Wee bit concerning that emotional manipulation and forced fun trumps facism/literal Nazis for you but we'll 🤐 Ali: ma is in enough of a mood and she'll only direct it at me so nah Tommy: well his racism is disputed depending whether you're in camp 😇 saint him 🙏 or camp cast him into the hellfire 👿 Tommy: the forced fun & emotional manipulation is just facts Ali: 👿 advocate Tommy: I'm gonna go to hell 🤞 he's an ally Ali: 😬 Ali: it's a punishment, not a holiday Tommy: it'll be a grand hol for my pores Tommy: love a sauna sesh Ali: that London smog is not it Ali: how black is your snot? Tommy: as Ro's soul 💀 Ali: Thomas Tommy: Alison Ali: 🛑 it Tommy: she'd 🖤 to hear it but FINE Ali: you're an enabler, it is known Ali: not the kind of encouragement I'm after tah Tommy: enabling you & your lady love to have a good time, yeah 🕺💃 Tommy: & I fully expected her to turn up with a pet raven is all I'm saying Ali: the best was made of it by all, despite it all Ali: even her, in her way Tommy: despite Kayne appearing 🤵🥀 & all in her case Ali: yeah Ali: ugh Ali: he's harmless enough, bless him Tommy: she'd beg to differ right now Tommy: you're gonna wanna hide the 🍄🍄💀 til she calms down Ali: You don't need to tell me Ali: I think he's just really oblivious Ali: like all lads Ali: it wasn't you know...assaulty Tommy: It's not his fault she's team true love's kiss & he AIN'T it Tommy: who could EVER measure up to the 💭💞 Ali: standards, cool Ali: unrealistic expectations, less so Ali: but I can't really advocate for reality at this point in the game Tommy: You don't need to tell me, sis Ali: you're team turn-a-stage-kiss-real, yeah Ali: it's more realistic than fairytales, anyway, look at strictly Tommy: I'm team when's my life been a shitty made for netflix flick never mind a 🐸🤴📖 Tommy: crushing realism ftw Ali: 💔 Ali: If you didn't have a tragic love-life to complain about, you'd be too insufferable 🤴💩 Tommy: comforting Tommy: I'd HATE to morph into Fraze of a few years back Ali: I'll let you know if you start getting freckles Tommy: I'd know if I woke up with those brows Tommy: nowhere to hide, like Ali: 👺 Tommy: 😂 Ali: What are you getting ma for her bday/have you got already (suckup) Tommy: I left it there if you wanna find & shake the 🎁 Ali: Wow, you really didn't wanna pay postage that bad huh Ali: I'll see if I can 🔮 Tommy: with what? I'm skint after buying hers & Ro's Tommy: & it'll be 🎅🎄🎁 before too long Ali: that's what people really mean when they say dance don't pay Ali: gifting an interpretive dance is nothing but pretentious and unwelcome Ali: I can bodge together however many crafts I need and save my dolla Tommy: been there, tried that one Tommy: so much for your so called genius Tommy: ain't even thought of earning any by busting out the 🎅🎄🎵 classics for a busking sesh, works with 🩰 too I'll have you know Ali: 'til you knock over an old lady and have to leg it, like Ali: and if you hadn't noticed, I've been a little busy making a replica Ro, tah Ali: my creative juices are juiced right now Tommy: I'll make it look like part of the show & have the punters eating out of my palm when I catch & twirl any 👵 before they touch ground Tommy: yeah well you've got time from now, fair game on all things yule from Nov 1st Ali: 👌👌 clearly the LDN ones are more receptive because they're vicious 'round here with their 👜s and I'm only trying to give them the tea they ordered Ali: if ANYONE should advocate for Christmas not dragging, like Tommy: it's Irish dancing or fuck all back there, 365 🌧 or ⛅ Tommy: little girls scam every bit of that trade Ali: ironic when it's catch these hands in every other aspect Ali: so you'll fit right in, eh Ali: feel traumatised yet? Tommy: I'll do my best, as ever Ali: 🤴 Ali: meanwhile ma will have to make do with whatever IOU present I can knock up Ali: maybe I'll babysit, that's never not gonna work Tommy: she was on about going out 🍽 wasn't she? Tommy: Carls will never not be down either Ali: get him to make her a cake Ali: sorted Ali: providing he washes his hands...a full hose down may be necessary actually Tommy: she's survived the 🧁 he brings back from school & we've all seen the state of him at day's end Ali: yeah, cheers for the immunity boost little 🦠 Ali: fair, I'm pretty sure we put some weird and wonderful things into our bakes at his age and no one died Ali: Laoise nearly but you know Tommy: close but no 🚬 Tommy: typical of that bitch Ali: sure a 🙏 was said to finish the job at mass Tommy: if you see her ma mascara running in an lbd, I demand to be the first to know Ali: I'll pap her in her time of distress, it's fine Ali: I can hide up trees for HOURS if needs must Tommy: I'm not above piggybacking on the 'tragedy' to get better grades or a hol Tommy: do your part, like Ali: she won't fall for 🍄 again Ali: her brother might if Ro puts 'em in her gob Tommy: 💞 Ali: more of a mood than without Ali: add a little danger Tommy: she'd appreciate the drama more than anything he could ever do Ali: 💔 Tommy: nah, we're not shipping that Tommy: not today Ali: You gotta make some bad decisions before you make the right ones Tommy: a bad decision was the colour of her 👗 Tommy: the last thing that girl needs is a boy right now Ali: Okay you can't come for anyone vis a vis colour, boy Ali: even if I still see it when I close my eyes after however many weeks sewing Ali: but you may have a point re. a boy Ali: just, some socialisation wouldn't hurt Ali: and as far as they go, he's harmless Tommy: 'Course I do, she can barely exist in front of us Tommy: if they went on a date, what's she gonna do, order a glass of water? Ali: like you haven't seen her fake eat a plate of food Ali: it's only noticeable to all us that she's not actually putting any in her mouth Tommy: 🔮✨ Tommy: if he's TRULY harmless he don't deserve to be harmed by her attitude Tommy: which anyone else not bound by family love & loyalty would call something loads harsher Ali: Don't Ali: I feel bad enough for Meena sometimes Tommy: @ Carly too & we all know it Ali: Yeah, Carly can handle it though, she's mostly unphased even if it is a total thing 🙄 Tommy: She's a 👸😇 I doubt Kayne is that pure of ❤️ or intentions tbh Tommy: & Meena can handle anything so Ali: he's deffo a virgin though Ali: which yes, makes for more desperation, but he can't be that forceful if he dunno what he wants, you know Ali: yeah but God knows why she wants to come 'round here and get more of it at times Tommy: No shit, Kit but everyone's seen a porno, it's not the 70s Tommy: dress for it all you like Tommy: maybe she wants to get out of her own 🏡 Ali: everyone also knows it's bullshit Ali: whatever else she's got that much about her Tommy: does he though? Tommy: all I'm saying Ali: either way, it isn't like she's going to have a miraculous change of heart Ali: we all saw how well it went Tommy: Yeah but what if it makes her heart set on finding someone else to play 🤴 Tommy: you'd know better than me what goes on in her head Ali: She's 15, I don't see how any of us can say or do anything to stop her if that's what she does want Tommy: 15 technically Tommy: 🤷 Ali: If we can't make her eat, you know Ali: what hope do we have for anything beyond that Tommy: 0 Tommy: & it's fucked Ali: Yep Ali: but it's not as if that bombshell has only just been dropped, I guess Ali: we'll carry on doing what we can Tommy: 🔮✨ Ali: ✌💚

[noonachronicles]

Hey there sexy 🌚 it's J, and I saw your TMI thingy that you reblogged and I just wanna know all of it and it got me thinking that like WOW I actually wanna talk to you and have real conversations with you and he to know you but like I'm so awkward and you'll probably lowkey hate me and I just like ahdndosmaodms ahhhhh

Oh my god, Love. I could never hate you. Never ever! I’m actually super awkward too, so it’s perfect! Here are all of the answers for that TMI post... wait until you’ve read all the answers before deciding if you want to really talk to me lol. 

1: What are you wearing? I am wearing a black and blue stripped dress and some purple shorts because I have been too lazy to do laundry since getting back from my trip.

2: Ever been in love? I was in love once. It was terrible.

3: Ever had a terrible breakup? It was less of a breakup more like multiple falling outs that crushed my heart and soul into tiny pieces. 

4: How tall are you? 5′7″

5: How much do you weigh? Too much.

6: Any tattoos do you want? So many. The next one I want is my Haunted Mansion themed tattoo in honor of my dad.

7: Any piercings that you want? Ehh. I’ve been thinking mildly of nipple piercings. 

8: OTP? Han and Leia

9: Favorite Show? Criminal Minds

10: Favorite bands? Brand New, Big Bang.

11: Something you miss? The ocean (always).

12: Favorite song? Honestly, so many. Too many. The limit does not exist.

13: How old are you? 29

14: Zodiac sign? Aries

15: Hair Color? Brown, blue, purple, red.

16: Favorite Quote? “I can’t help that I have a heavy flow and a wide set vagina”.

17: Favorite singer? Beyonce

18: Favorite color? Red

19: Loud music or soft? Soft

20: Where do you go when you're sad? The ocean if I can. Or to Tiffany’s.

21: How long does it take you to shower? Less than 10 minutes.

22: How long does it take you to get ready in the morning? Less than 10 minutes.

23: Ever been in a physical fight? Yes.

24: Turn on? Sense of humor

25: Turn off? Ignorance

26: The reason I joined Tumblr? Kpop reasons

27: Fears? Snakes.

28: Last thing that made you cry? Thinking about my dad.

29: Last time you cried? Earlier today.

30: Meaning behind your url...I’m a noona and I’m chronicling my Kpop history.

31: Last book you read? Fifty Shades, outloud, in the style of William Shatner.

32: Last song you listened to?

33: Last show you watched? Shadowhunters. 

34: Last person you talked to? Bang Yongguk - Yamakazi

35: The relationship between you and the person you last texted? Best friend for fucking life.

36: Favorite food? Pizza

37: Place you want to visit? Thailand

38: Last place you were? Wouldn’t that be were I am now? So, my bed.

39: Do you have a crush? I do, it’s lame.

40: Last time you kissed someone? June 23rd.

41: Last time you were insulted and what was it? A few days ago when @aibears rolled her eyes at me like I was the worlds biggest idiot.

42: What color underwear are you wearing? I’m not wearing underwear. lol

43: What color shirt are you wearing? blue/black

44: What color bottoms are you wearing? purple

45: Wearing any bracelets? no

46: Last sport you played? roller derby

47: Last song you sang? System of a Down - Chop Suey

48: Last prank call you remember doing? I don’t think I ever have...

49: Last time you hung out with anyone? This weekend roadtrip with Amber.

50: Favorite movie - Empire Strikes Back, Breakfast at Tiffany’s, Almost Famous, Amelie.