#but its just annoying that shippers can be so toxic ���� they care more about their fictional men ship than me. a real person. weird

[alchemiclee]

i know this has been said 473773474833 times by the kavetham/haikaveh shippers and probably even nonshippers, but i'll say it again. I finally finished the genshin summer event and did the little after quest in sumeru and.....every time kaveh is sneaking around trying not to be noticed coming out of alhaithams house it's just such a gay vibe. he's basically screaming "I can't be caught being gay in a homophobic society!" even if that's not what the game writers are *actually* saying. that's just how it comes off and they can't make it come off any other way. with hoyo's gay history, it makes me wonder if it's on purpose and all a cover-up to have a technically different reason for it so they can get away with it lmao but we will never know.

[victimsofyaoipoll]

Round 3

Propaganda Under Cut

Kairi

kairi is the third protagonist of the kingdom hearts series and the third member of the destiny trio, alongside fan favorites sora and riku. sora/riku shippers HATE kairi, and will go out of their way to discount her at every turn. the hate for her ranges from typical "she's a boring bitch" to fans of soriku making five-hour long video essays reassuring their fellow shippers that the big bad kairi won't show up in the next installment – to quote one video, "she's in a box. she's on the shelf. four walls, no door." kairi is the greatest bogeyman the soriku fandom has ever known, to the point where most of said video essays and fanon meta posts focus not on why sora and riku should get together, but rather on why they don't like kairi.

Literally has a 100+ page Google doc fan theory writing her out of the narrative and putting all of her (few) canonical accomplishments onto half of the popular m/m ship (soriku). Don't even get me started on how her memory was completely written out of the canon plot of re:coded. KH is a nightmare to explain so dude trust me she is THE victim of yaoi

She is so fundamental to the plot and themes and narratives of game and yet it is near impossible to find anything about her thats not ship bashing pre-mlm with the other two characters. I dont even care if she ends up with one of the main characters i just want fans to see her as a cool character to love or like, anything other than “annoying comphet girl.” You can write your mlm but pleaae stop inventing comphet where it doesnt exist. She does not even get to spend time with sora ever?? Why does everyone see her as a threat and a thing to destroy?? Let her have friends so help me

Misa Amane

she gets treated in-canon the way fandoms treat female characters that Threaten an m/m ship. it's like, "oh why don't you go sit in the corner and be pretty, misa, while the Men have intelligent conversation and pretend they aren't ten seconds from fucking each other, doesn't that sound nice?" it's infuriating. and MAYBE it's better now but i remember her getting treated the same way in fanfiction too, like we all need to do just as badly by our female secondary characters as fucking tsugumi ohba, but with the added insult of making her be alternately oblivious of the relationship between light and L or actively trying to sabotage it—incompetently, of course, because god forbid misa be allowed dignity or moments of cleverness.

she's one of the first characters I think of when I consider old school fandom misogyny. The annoying bitch and clingy crazy gf allegations were AFTER HER ASS. She's also a lot more intelligent than people gave her credit for, but most seem inclined to take the Very Biased word of our unreliable, narcissistic narrator and his homoerotic arch nemesis and claim that just because she's bubbly and into romance that she's also a complete moron. Which is blatantly untrue. Everyone was afraid of Misa girlbossing too hard. Killing people and devoting yourself to the deranged twink of your dreams even though you know he'll never love you back??? Having a hardcore goth aesthetic and being so Hot even literal Death Gods are into you?? God forbid women do ANYTHING!

Not only is she the victim of yaoi culture, she is the victim of early 2000s misogyny by an author that wanted to introduce a girl character because he knew his male rivals were getting too homoerotic. She is a goth bimbo icon who portrays what I think is one of the few callouts for stan culture and what parasocial relationships can do to both the stan and the idol. The fact that she is a toxic fan of Kira and also hot, funny, sociable is tragic in its own way, which I think the author did try to touch on but was too misogynistic too really get through. Of course, she was reduced to villain status by the fandom and anime alike because she got in the way of the supposed romance in their psychological horror anime.

[eisforeidolon]

I feel fans should be able to interpret shows and characters any way they want but it really bothers me that shippers die on the hill of Dean is such a closeted bi sexual and Sam is the biggest heterosexual out there. I love these characters because they are extremely toxic and codependent on each other. The story would not be the same with out that. Why would anyone look to Supernatural to be their all time gay representation love story when it most obviously is not. it just blows my mind how out there Destiel shippers are and how much they truly hate this show and hate Dean without even realizing it. I need someone to figure out how we can get rid of them from this fandom...LOL

Yeah, IDGI either. Fandom is supposed to be about just having fun however you want with the building blocks from the canon + your imagination. It's not even the main point that they're hilariously bad at interpretation, project too hard onto the characters to even see them, can't understand context to save their lives, pointedly ignore a million things that directly contradict their agenda, and too much of their so-called proof is actually gross backwards stereotypes about sexuality and masculinity (neither of which they seem to understand very well at all). If they were just having fun with it, who the fuck cares? Sure, it's annoying, but a lot of fandom is annoying because it is so specifically tailored to things not everyone is gonna like. There are other canons with fans who are fine admitting they just like playing in the canon world but not the canon itself that much.

No, the problem is hellers are not content to just enjoy their non-canon interpretations in fandom. They feel entitled to flood any and every tag associated with the show, trying to demand their interpretations be considered indisputably canon fact because ... reasons ... and anyone who doesn't agree with them is A Bad Person because ... they say so. Their ship is the greatest love story (n)ever told, the best representation evar in media! It's the only important thing about SPN - and if they couldn't change the canon, they can change the fandom narrative! The fact there's actually no there there under their overblown thousands upon thousands of words of inept meta is why the very suggestion it's not canon, that someone doesn't see it as the greatest thing ever, that maybe Dean is actually just a heterosexual instead of putting on an elaborate performance of one or even that Sam might not be the straightest character ever written? Is taken as an attack upon their self-declared status as the real main audience. Which makes sense, because they never were. SPN was anything but subtle as to what its actual focal relationship was.

To some extent I get how they echo-chambered each other into believing their ship was/would be a thing in canon. If you just look at the size of the piles on piles of cherry-picked nonsense they accumulated over the years without actually engaging your brain to see how variously flimsy, out of context, or how many other more sensible interpretations there were for any of them? If you wanted to believe and surrounded yourself with others who did, too, and kept talking each other up, spending way more time doing that than watching the show? It's no wonder some of them ended up with really skewed expectations.

What I don't get is how they're still going this long after the show ended. SPN is over and there's no more 'Well, next season for sure!' to promise themselves. There are increasingly more stories out there now in a variety of media which are centering deliberately, openly LGBT+ characters and relationships they could invest in championing! Hell, just saying screw canon and burying themselves in writing their idea of "better" fanfic is a perfectly reasonable way to deal with disappointment, no matter how self-inflicted. Instead, they're still here making up elaborate conspiracies about how SPN was something other than what it blatantly obviously always was - because admitting they were wrong and the only thing they ever liked about it was their own OOC fanfic very, very loosely based off of it? Well, that's more than a bit embarrassing in light of how long they spent campaigning and how vehement they were about it totally being not just A Thing but The Most Important Thing Ever. So I don't know what would actually get them to move on, they clearly love being miserable and wrong and pretending to be martyrs over it far too much for me to comprehend.

[humanpurposes]

Were your anons talking about that WakeTheDragon twitter acc? Gosh, they are so annoying and hateful, they were telling Helaemond shippers need to d*e or something terrible like that and their followers ate it up instead of calling them out and unfollowing. They know some stuff, but also they seemed to have no idea about Alicole in s2 for example.

I don't even expect anything from s3 though, because clearly the writers don't care for Aemond and they will waste Ewan again by sidelining him for every other character and in his little screentime he will be becoming more and more of a cartoonish villain, a toxic male who the writers need to blame for everything that happens in the show which is a big shame and such a wasted potential because the character could have been so interesting. And also Ewan has never played a romance before and probably won't on HotD even though it could have shown his new side as an actor, but well... The showrunners don't care about Ewan either otherwise they wouldn't sideline him so much in s2 after his big break. Even Ewan's promo now is also just "he plays an uber creep, freakiest tv villain"... It's so disappointing. The show overall is just flat, boring and predictable, I wish I'd never watched it. I hate this show and its dumb inconsistent writing. And Ewan is stuck on it for 4 more years, he deserved better.

Ohhh that's rough. I refuse to go anywhere near Twitter so idk what happens over there unless I see it somewhere else.

I really couldn't tell you where the run time for season 2 went. How did they name an episode 'Regent' as in AEMOND the Prince REGENT and he was barely in it? I know what you mean about the promo stuff (GQ!!!) It's insane when the marketing feels so disproportionate to what the writers are able to pull off, because it took me until episode 5 to be like "oh he's meant to be full on evil now."

Honestly though it's not just Aemond, the writers have done a bad job with so many of the characters. Ewan is a brilliant actor and he's done an amazing job on this show. I know season 2 was a huge let down but I'm sure he's really proud of this piece of work, as he should be, not just because it's increased his visibility, but you can see in interviews how invested he is in Aemond as a character. I mean aside from anything else he gets to swing a sword and pretend to ride a dragon, I'd love that as a job hehe.

Idk if I'll be that fussed about tuning in for season 3, at least I've got plenty of time to decide. Definitely won't be waking up at 5am to watch the episodes every Monday morning.

[6ftkyle]

4, 19, 25 for the violence game :3

4 - what was the last straw that made you finally block that annoying person?

i was relaying to a friend my bad experiences with said person because i was frustrated and needing a bit of validation that i wasn't being an over-sensitive bitch and my friend was like 'dude you should just block.' and i was like you know what? youre so right. so i did!

19 - you're mad/ashamed/horrified you actually kind of like…

i do not actually have a lot of shame! im too old and prone to depression to be upset by enjoying things, i gotta take all the good i can get, you know?

i think my past self, the 14 year old kz watching the show in high school, would maybe be upset that im a kyman shipper now, because i used to not really care for it, but baby kz has a lot of things to unpack and deal with so she can live with the fact that ive come around to see the fun of kymans toxic horseshit

25 - common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

"we need more x episodes", i think. for like, anything. because people say they want more episodes with a certain ship, or character and then they get mad when it doesnt line up with the intricate lore theyve built up for the characters.

which like, i think its fine (great even!) to have your own very specific interpretations of these characters, god knows i do and ill tell anyone about them with even the slightest provocation. but getting mad when the show doesnt line up to that is just kind of tiresome. the canon is loose and molded by what m&t think is funniest this week, characters will act differently if it better suits their joke.

if i have to see one more 'kyle was OOC in this episode' because he didnt act according to fanon, i think i will be annoyed and bitch about it in private to my friends bc i know how to behave myself online!

[four-bastard-bustle]

i actually feel pretty damn bad about the fact that i like. started this and then had the fixation shift so i just left everyone with the funny preview sketch and never posted about this concept even tho its like. personally? one of my favourite things ive ever written (I might retool it for something original in some way. i sure would like to try)

TL;DR, i made some nuclear waste level toxic yaoi with kinger n caine

so this is gonna start with some complaining BUT lemme preface this by saying that i hold no ill will or contempt towards royalteeth shippers. the ship is perfectly fine and valid, and nobody is doing anything "wrong" by making these two guys kiss and be sweet.

that being said, all the royalteeth fanart ive seen has annoyed the shit out of me because its just two guys being tooth rottingly sweet in a very vanilla milquetoast way. (AGAIN IF THIS MAKES YOU HAPPY THEN THAT IS PERFECTLY FINE AND VALID, YOU DO NOT NEED TO STOP DRAWING OR WRITING THAT, I AM NOT ATTACKING YOU, I JUST DONT LIKE IT PERSONALLY AND THATS JUST AN OPINION. BUT PLEASE PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE DON'T FEEL LIKE I AM ATTACKING YOU FOR YOUR SHIP OR SOMETHING) but also, of course, i kept seeing the ship everywhere and that made me kinda start thinking about it. if and how it could actually work if it was more than just. guys being sweet together

and then i got really into it because i started thinking about the power imbalance. nobody wants to acknowledge the power imbalance except for MAYBE the gamemaster kinger AU but that also squarely stays within the tooth rotting sweetness. again! Valid! just not what i crave when it comes to fiction

but analysing it more, Caine could very well be classified as the god of this digital world, AND YET he is programmed to do anything to provide to the people within the circus, while simultaneously never knowing whatr they truly need, and not understanding their requests whatsoever. a submissive god that provides mainly misery. that actually has the potential to be SO GOOD in a ship

so I started thinking about a potential setting in which kinger (as per my headcanon already) neglects queenie so much she ends up abstracting, and then, in his grief and need for love & comfort, commands, BEGS caine to be there for him. to take care of him, and to ensure that kinger will not get an "easy exit" from the circus via abstraction, because he feels he doesn't deserve to lose himself that way. he paradoxically thinks that would be too nice an end for him

sooo, caine obliges as he is programmed to. he doesn't feel any love, but he knows his obligation to be with kinger forever, and to keep him conscious within the circus no matter what

and that's the toxic yaoi babey <3

soooo, with all that being said. here's all the sketches my brain produced with the concept, most of them stuck in eternal WIP mode

given kinger's whole bug thing, my mind immediately went to the bug kept in a jar. eternally at the mercy of a giant being. this ended up being the first sketch i fully fleshed out and then used as an icon for a ship playlist because i have a crippling addiction to making character, ship, and media playlists

going a bit further with this concept i wanted to recreate that comic that went around on tumblr briefly where the little fairy lives in a jar and shows you around and at the end she goes "#mystick :D". i cannot find this comic ANYWHERE anymore but i swear it existed and it would have fit the vibe here

while we're at the sillier stuff, some of the more lighthearted sketches of this concept

they've just both got such good bug eyed stares

based on a song from my little ship playlist, yknow. one of them cant feel pain and can also float. this probably would've been a slightly more humorous pic anyways, mostly cause i already love this pre-sketch dearly

this sketch was gonna play a bit with symbolism. something something devouring love and caine being a giant set of teeth. but i feel like if i just lined and coloured it like this, it wouldve turned out fumbling the line between serious yet weird symbolism and just looking funny. so this probably wouldve never been fully lined anyways

this one would've been more of a comic going over the course of years, with kinger going from "please stay with me for now" to "please don't ever leave me" over time. and caine of course just goes with it

another abstraction thing, inspired by the theory that kinger will abstract next. combined with this concept where caine keeps him around no matter what. and also yknow. eating eyes looks nice n fucked up

aaaand finally this pic that i was in the middle of working on when my fixation shift happened. yknow. replacement wife stuff

im making some fucking DIABOLICAL art rn, very excited to share it soon. but since im about to go out you get this as a preview for now

[cangrellesteponme]

Sebagrelle for the duo ask? ❤️🖤

sebagrelle > your favs (jk)

double bingo, sebagrelle supremacy!

anyway rambling time.

wasted potential, fandom sleeps on this one, etc: please wake me up when all of you finally realise that sebagrelle is the greatest enemies AND lovers ship. this fandom disappoints me, always, but THIS? why is it so lonely in the "sebagrelle shipper who is not transphobic" corner. whyyyy. I wish yana would have them interact some more so you can all finally realise how great sebagrelle is. it has all the greatest dynamics. (dramatic/even more dramatic, low energy/high energy, RED AND BLACK, the inherent romanticism of desperately wanting to kill your gorgeous enemy, etc)

"it's complicated" and the discourse: look. you could come at me with the most solid proof that sebastian canonically misgenders grelle or whatever (which. I'm pretty sure he doesn't but yk) and I wouldn't give a single shit. I do not care about the general toxicity either. is sebagrelle healthy? definitely not. is it glorious tho? yes 100%. it's worth its downsides. it's a true dark romance.

the comedic potential: flirting while fighting is funny. people annoying sebastian is funny. grelle's penchant for drama is funny. and now you have all of these things together.

they can make each other worse: let's be honest here. one of the main appeals of sebagrelle is that they're both hot and murderous and it gets even worse when they're together. I just want them to go kill people together and maybe stab each other sometimes. is that too much to ask for?

[ichirukilover]

I saw your last ask about the IR fandom being toxic.

Every fandom has its toxic PARTS. But I don’t interact with the toxic parts. Sure there is some people in IR fandom that can be a bit much, but I interact with that side. Because I don’t go out of my way to look for that side. I stay in my lane.

And like the other Anon said, I don’t like IH and RR but I respect the shippers by staying away from them and not interacting with their art and fics.

It’s saves you a headache in the long run

I've never gone in the IH and RR lane ever, that doesn't mean I didn't get constant hate and stalkers, because guess what? The IH/RR fandom is more toxic then the IR one, they are obessed with us, always have been and blocking, filtering and ignoring may not be enough when they're always ready to jump in our lane 24/7, but of course you just have to ignore and keep going, untill they'll get tired of you and move on to the next one.

The "toxic" part of the ichiruki fandom at the moment is a joke, so unserious, it's just people that engage with other IH/RR/IR antis that are baiting us all the time (see twitter), is it annoying? Yes, is it better to just do like me, ignore lies, upon lies, bs upon bs and just scroll down? Maybe not, I can't really judge the ones that actually still care to clear things, argue manga facts and so on, obviously I draw the line over anyone harassing artists and fic wrtiters.

[melody-of-lost-souls]

Hey!

So on Quora, once I accidentally crossed paths with ss pages (nothing new since their everywhere 😐).. And I couldn't help but wanted to cry at the amount of invalid points they made.

They said that Sasuke never denied Sakura's love proposals.

Bruh WHAT 👁👄👁????? The first time that she proposed, didn't he literally call her annoying?????? And rejected her in the most "brutal" way possible????? The second time called her annoying again?? Then when she tried again during War Arc (is this girl even human??? She seriously cares about Sasuke's D in the middle of a war, while people are dying right before her eyes????) Didn't he SPECIFICALLY SAY THAT He found absolutely NO REASON for him to love her, and likewise he finds no reason for her to love him (she doesn't really love him anyway since she views him as a pretty prize to show off 🤦🏽‍♀️). And then put her in the most violent genjutsu??? And how the hell is that romantic?? There were lots more of other genjutsus he could've used..

2. Sasuke never denied Naruto as a brother.

I'm starting to wonder if we watched/read the same series/chapters of Naruto.. First of all, didn't Sasuke say that he only had ONE brother, which is Itachi? And didn't Sasuke literally call Naruto an outsider??? And then Naruto, himself, later on said that he and Sasuke weren't brothers???

3. Sasuke and Naruto are reincarnated brothers. They are spiritually related.

😔😔 **sighhh** but I thought Hagoromo(???) Said that they were reincarnated by chakra? And if they were reincarnations of Indra and Ashura, then I'm pretty they would've had the same attitude and the same personality... They are reincarnated by chakra; spirit and chakra are very different things... And anyway, Naruto said that he isn't Ashura and Sasuke ain't Indra. And Naruto also said that he felt like he was being watched or haunted??? If you're spiritually reincarnated you wouldn't have that type of feeling.

I think that's all they added.

This fandom is so stupid. If those SS/NH stans weren't so annoying (some of them are ok) this whole nonsense wouldn't have happened. It's not only them, honestly. I'm embarrassed to say that a certain part of SN/NS fandom are toxic. And other ships attacking or defending their ship because of SS/NH peeps or just to stir up drama.

BONUS! When you make valid points about the ship not being healthy or it not being romantic, SS stans back up and say "tHeY hAd SmEx ThEy HaVe A dAuGhTeR" (I'm pretty you see that all the time when you see SS stans lurking in our tags) And then discarding Salad because apparantly she gets in the way of their ship. WoOooowii this is so new!😒😒 Their said proof of ThathuThaku is literally set aside and used when they're being uncovered. That reminds me of someone using a certain person for his popularity and unbelievably attractive looks to make herself feel good and make other girls jealous of her.. I wonder who that is??? 🤔🤔

Hello Anon! So sorry for you to have gone through that hell of SS nonsense...

I did actually read some SS meta post to see if I find some valid points for their ship. I read them in 2 times of my life, when i was an SS and as a SNS shipper. Both times i found them very ...icky and a big "You are reading and fantasizing too much". trying to find a fifth leg on a cat, which YOU OBVIUSLY WONT FIND.

And i saw this items you mentioned here, and some more that will make you laugh and cry xD 1- Sasuke didnt deny Sakura confession so it means he loves her ¿¿¿ He said THANK YOU, to those feelings and literally then he leaves, like saying Bye. Thank you and Bye. Actually that kinf of response is A MEME, cause it shows in some way that that confession didnt reach your heart, its a dry responde. THank you. Actually you can see a lot of memes when someone confess to the other something like this X: I love you! Y: xD thank you. Think about it, would you respond this way to someone you love? Kishimoto is very good at narrative and writing dialogues. And he is very good at also creating mystery and doubt in the characters. If Sasuke loved her or liked her at least, his reply must have been "Sakura...I..." (showing a grief face) "Im Sorry Sakura but..." HE HAD to show insecurity and doubt to how replying those feelings of the girl he loves(?) And maybe show confussion too. Something he never did. He always knew about her feelings and always give a fuck, if he loved her all the way round, his responde MUST HAVE BEEN other. That Thank you meant, Thank you for loving me but i cannot love you back. and he after that actually left. I can agree he showed here FRIENDLY feelings for her, like I appreaciate you as a teammate so for that reason i thanks to you also those times we shared, but that thank you also mean to cut the page in there and with that he cut bonds with her. If this is the girl you love desperately and who saved you from darkness (as SS claims) from a psychological pov, you do not cut her that way and dont wash her memories that quickly. -Ups he couldnt actually do that with one person

Sasuke was actually able to be absoluty doubtful on vote1, with that "Naruto ...I" which ONLY GOD KNOWS what the hell he wanted to say. How can he show this insecurity to a boy, a not the girl he loves?

2. Sasuke never denied Naruto as a brother.

I'm starting to wonder if we watched/read the same series/chapters of Naruto.. First of all, didn't Sasuke say that he only had ONE brother, which is Itachi? And didn't Sasuke literally call Naruto an outsider??? And then Naruto, himself, later on said that he and Sasuke weren't brothers??

Well nothing to add in here.

Sasuke is a very i dont know if say possesive, but he is very clear and sure about the roles and people who belong to his family ( i know naruto is his family too) in a structural way of the word. He is very sure who his father was, his mother, and who is his brother figure. I know i said and i repeat, that itachi took the roles of parent figure, but in terms of how is Sasuke family built, he knows very well what "place" has all of his relatives whom he share blood and clan. He also took the "brother" word in a very special meaning, that word is associated to a different situations and contexts in which Naruto doesnt fit at all. Something i will add is from naruto perspective of how antis saying HE DOES consider Sasuke as a brother/. Naruto is an only child as I am. I cant speak for all only child because is stupid, but you cannot consider someone as brother if you never had it and if you dont know how that works. We dont know what is sibling relationship, which follows certain parameters. We can love a person and saying "its like a sibling" but we just say it because of the sake of say it and because we pressume that maybe thats how a relationship of sibling is. But siblings for example live together for certain years, that only item can change all of our relationship with another person, and still will be different if we are not related by blood. See Mikasa and Eren for example, despite living some years together and considering each other sometimes as "siblings" that relationship as sibilings didnt work at all. So, assuring Naruto and Sasuke are brother because naruto say it, its stupid. And i ask to that people if they see their brothers and sisters that way, then ...go to therapy.

3-Sasuke and Naruto are reincarnated brothers. They are spiritually related.

Well these is somehow related to the previous point. The fact that they were brothers "before" (lol) doesnt mean anything because THE ACTUALY CHARACTERS whom we share episodes and know from episode 1, are the ones who we must care, and they are not brothers by any BY ANY MEAN. They did not share any context of siblings to be brothers, and the fact that they have the chakra of some old-mighty-powered ninjas who happen to be brothers...doesnt mean anything to me. You see, i watched an anime long ago called Uraboku, was a bit of BL. But there were 2 main char. One was an oooold warrior (bishonen ofc) who always looks to protect his beloved lover , a woman. It happens that in that era, actuality, this woman reincarnates as a man. But this man WASNT HER. he has the essence of her, but he had his own personality and convictions and the other part of this couple, the old warrior understood this, that he wasnt her. But still he would protect him. if Sasuke and Naruto fell in love, was because of their own experiences and stories, that they could find comfort on each other and peace...which this is basically how a sane relationship should start. The reincarnations things, of Indra and Asura was to justify their power ups. Because in any case, we must also consider Madara and Hashirama as brother AND WE, ALL FANDOM KNOW VERY WELL, that they are not brothers at all.

4-"tHeY hAd SmEx ThEy HaVe A dAuGhTeR

I laugh that they always pull this card, the sex card. yeah they fucked , but gaiden proves 98% they not lol. But yeah okay lets take it, they fcuked so...whats up?

Since when having sex is meaning of love and hapiness? And they cannot pull the culture card, because that excuse fall on its own weight. Marriages like this, forced and for the sake of what society could say, tend to have sex twice or once to have kids and thats it. but even you have vast examples on daily life where people sleep together after a party or disco does that mean love? Its funny they reduced their princess and their trophy to a pair of sex machine. Concluding i will add some points i saw on meta posts, which are hilarious. -Sasuke is obssesed with Sakura eyes. -Sasuke lied to sakura all the time¿

-Sakura is Sasuke moon because she confessed at night¿

-Sasuke cannot love , after vote2 he was able to love sakura¿ Basically naruto made of cupid.

Have a good day :)

[serpenteve]

so i still hate book!mal 😒

I'm almost done re-reading the Grisha trilogy (because I hate myself) and I kept getting annoyed by how so many of Mal's lines that Bardugo clearly thought were "romantic" and swoon-worthy are literally just telegraphing how possessive, toxic, narcissistic, selfish and entitled he is?

I don't think I can fully express how completely she failed in trying to endear this character to me because so much of what he says and does reminds me of the toxic and controlling people I've known 😬

Note: This has nothing to do with m*lina shippers. This post is not for you. You guys can ship what you want and it's none of my business. This is just an examination of the book character's dialogue and why I (and many other people) felt uneasy about him.

part one: shadow & bone

We see the first glimpse of Mal's possessiveness and jealousy when he first encounters Alina at the Little Palace:

"And here you are, safe and sound, dancing and flirting like some cosseted little princess." [...] “Are you happy here, Alina?” The question took me by surprise. “I … I don’t know. Sometimes.” “Are you happy here with him?” [...] “The clothes, the jewels, even the way you look. He’s all over you." [...] “Just admit it,” he sneered. “He owns you.”

Apparently, we're supposed to excuse his blatant slut-shaming and anger because....he's been on a perilous assignment where his friends died and he thought Alina was being tortured. But I fail to see how this makes any sense because if you thought the person you loved was in danger and you'd risked your life just to see them and then discover they are actually safe and sound....would you not be overjoyed and relieved? This whole time you thought they were suffering or in danger but it turns out they're completely safe and cared for!

It's especially telling that instead of asking about anything else, Mal seems particularly interested in Alina's relationship with the Darkling, and maps their relationship dynamic as "ownership" simply because Alina wears black. His vicious tone suggests to me that he's just salty he's not the one "owning" Alina.

The real reason Mal is pissed is because Alina is happy without him (and potentially with another love interest) and he can't stand that because he feels personally entitled to have her.

Later, he admits to ruminating about this moment like an unhinged stalker:

“Do you? That night at the palace when I saw you on that stage with him, you looked so happy. Like you belonged with him. I can’t get that picture out of my head.” “I was happy,” I admitted. “In that moment, I was happy. I’m not like you, Mal. I never really fit in the way that you did. I never really belonged anywhere.” “You belonged with me,” he said quietly.

This passage has always telegraphed Mal's sense of entitlement towards Alina. Prior to her getting whisked away to the Little Palace, Mal showed little romantic affection for Alina. But now that she's the fabled Sun Summoner, he comes off like he thinks he's more entitled to Alina than anyone else simply because they grew up together.

Alina even frankly tells him that she hasn't felt like she belonged with him for a long time. Instead of exploring why that might be, why they might have been on diverging paths, why Mal has made Alina feel like she is unworthy of his romantic feelings until now, Mal goes on what I assume is supposed to be a romantic speech:

"I’ve risked my life for you. I’ve walked half the length of Ravka for you, and I’d do it again and again and again just to be with you, just to starve with you and freeze with you and hear you complain about hard cheese every day. So don’t tell me we don’t belong together"

Again, this reeks of entitlement and manipulation. This is one of those lines that I see certain m*lina shippers using as proof of how "nice" Mal is but it honestly kind of scares me? He doesn't care about Alina's feelings or want to explore why she felt so distant from him. He's the one in charge and if he did X, Y, Z for Alina then he's entitled to have her and she's just going to have to accept that.

“I’m sorry it took me so long to see you, Alina. But I see you now.”

This specific line on its own doesn't necessarily have to be bad. We've certainly seen variations of this in other media. But combined with his sense of entitlement, how he treats Alina in the later books, and the fact that she needed to transform into a literal sunbeam for Mal to even consider her as a romantic prospect, it just makes me roll my eyes. Why should Alina be the one to look past Mal's obliviousness when he's barely given her the time of day and reacted so negatively at the mere suggestion that she might have found happiness with another man? Why should Alina just forgive Mal's jealousy when he has a reputation for sleeping around that Alina has kindly ignored even though it deeply hurt her?

I don't care if you danced naked on the roof of the Little Palace with him. I love you, Alina, even the part of you that loved him.”

This is supposed to be Mal's "apology" for his outburst at the Little Palace and I was on-board with it up until the last part. This is another line I see m*lina shippers pointing to as proof that Mal doesn't have a toxic madonna/whore complex and doesn't care about Alina's previous romantic interests. But the problem is that he treats Alina's previous affections for the Darkling as a moral stain on her character. It's a back-handed compliment that amounts to: "I don't care if you had sex with him because I'll still love you, even that stupid and slutty part of you that loved him"

He touched my cheek lightly, and when he spoke again, his voice was low and raw. “I never want to see you in black again.”

Again, this is meant to be romantic but it just makes me feel very uncomfortable. Mal is so hyperfixated on the Darkling "marking" Alina with a color. It would be one thing if Alina is also equally or more perturbed by the color, but she just isn't? Or at least she's not as obsessed with it as Mal appears to be.

[firelxdykatara]

gods, ok, apparently i’m not done.

atla fandom? we need to have a chat.

(....ok that made me sound pretentious as fuck. and maybe i am, but this needs to be said, cause i’m getting....real, real tired of a Certain Corner of this fandom and as a result, this is gonna be a discourse-heavy post so feel free to scroll past if that’s not your bag. as always, my salt posts all carry the catch-all #salt for ts tag, which you’re free to blacklist/filter at your leisure. i’m Very Annoyed at the moment, which will probably come through in the following post, so just. yknow. be prepared for that. or ignore it, that’s perfectly valid too.)

under a cut bc i do care for my followers and their sanity i swear lmao

there’s a real serious issue in this fandom with not understanding what queer terminology actually means or implies, especially when applied to a fictional narrative.

i’m specifically talking about ‘coding’, here. (if i were in a more meme-y mood, i might have said ‘the atla fandom found out about the term “gay-coding” and haven’t shut up since’.)

to the people who say ‘zuko is gay-coded’, i have this to say: you keep using that word. i do not think it means what you think it means. because he isn’t. i’m sorry, but he’s not! and the fact that this is such a prevalent claim in this fandom is distressing, bc it says to me that none of y’all know what gay-coding is or when and how to apply it! please, i’m begging you, go and look up these terms and what they mean and when they should be used before actually trying to plug them into your critical analysis, because when you misuse them and then call other people delusional for disagreeing with you it casts a pall over the entire fandom and is, i think, the root of some of the worst toxicity this fandom has to offer.

and the thing is, there are cases where gay-coding would apply--for instance, a couple series that are famous for queerbaiting their audience by coding their main characters as being attracted to one another (sometimes even despite their openly stated sexualities) come to mind, but those shows bare no similarities at all to atla and how zuko was written and portrayed! (and it would be funny, if it weren’t so obnoxious and infuriatingly wide-spread throughout the fandom, because the only queer couple we actually seen on-screen in either show wasn’t even queer-coded in any respect, and they’re canonically bi! [yes, i’m shading korrasami, or more accurately i’m shading bryke for refusing to give ka the build-up and development they deserved].)

this absolutely isn’t to say that headcanoning zuko as gay is a bad thing or invalid in any respect. (although the tendency for zukka shippers to do this specifically to keep zuko away from katara and/or invalidate his canon relationship/attraction to girls is more than a little eyebrow raising. especially since sokka is usually allowed to be bi, bc fans have no problem letting sukka stay in the background bc it’s no real threat, while jetko shippers are happy to have both boys be bi. [possibly bc katara is less a threat to jetko bc jetkotara is every bit as valid as any single ship between the three, but zukka can’t exactly let katara join in, and if the potential exists for zuko to be attracted to her then canon giving them the far deeper emotional bond becomes a threat to zukka’s existence? idk for sure--you be the judge.]) i prefer to hc zuko as bi (and always have, long before the atla renaissance), bc i don’t think zuko being attracted to boys is outside the realm of possibility, and it isn’t a threat to my ship since zuko&katara had a deep and emotional bond in canon that is very easy to develop further into something that becomes explicitly romantic--but the headcanon itself isn’t really the problem (although what it’s often in service to can be).

it’s the strange insistence that this is the only way to read his character, bc he was coded that way and so anyone who doesn’t see it must be too straight to understand--and i really shouldn’t have to say why and how that is so incredibly fucking insulting. (the ‘hetero lenses’ comment wasn’t cute when it came from bryke six years ago, and the same sentiment being repackaged and delivered by zukka shippers ain’t cute now.)

calling zuko gay-coded not only demonstrates ignorance as to what the term actually means, and how to usefully apply it in critical analysis, but also validates the frankly bullshit insertion of institutionalized homophobia in the world of atla where it was neither needed, nor wanted, nor ever hinted at in canon. as a queer woman i’m still infuriated by one fucking comic panel shoving institutionalized and systemic homophobia into a world where it was entirely unnecessary (and doing this in the first installment of the franchise showcasing a queer relationship??? making korra and asami worried about ‘coming out’ when they could have just gone on to have cute adventures together and tell people ‘hey we’re dating’ and have everyone else be ‘that’s awesome =DDD’ [because it is, in fact, possible to just have a world without homophobia i promise!!!!!] double yikes, i’m still pissed at bryke about it), and i doubly hate that ‘zuko is gay coded’ has become so widespread that ‘ozai hates him bc he’s gay’ has become a staple in that part of the fandom.

not only does making zuko gay and implying (or outright stating) that ozai hated and abused him because of it completely undermine zuko’s character arc by making his abuse about his sexuality rather than ozai’s toxic pride and anger at seeing himself reflected in his ‘weak’ son, but it comes very close to outright stating that abuse and trauma are inherently gay experiences, and they aren’t!!! they really aren’t, i promise!!!

abuse and trauma narratives exist outside of ‘my dad hates me because i’m gay’. and, quite frankly, there are MORE THAN ENOUGH queer trauma narratives out in the world. we do not need to start trying to retroactively make them canon in a series where they didn’t exist! if you’re gay and see yourself in zuko and project your own experiences on him, that’s understandable and valid. that does not make zuko gay-coded. and honestly, the insistence that he is makes very little sense to me, because you’re essentially trying to give the show credit for work you put into interpreting the characters! why would you want to do that? why not own your own headcanons and take credit for them, rather than insisting they are canon and everyone else is wrong for not seeing them??? like, i’ve said before that i’ve always headcanoned zuko (and katara) as bi, and even support it with my interpretations of evidence from the show, but the difference between ‘i think zuko is bi’ and ‘zuko is definitely gay-coded’ is that i know that bi zuko is my interpretation of canon, and that it is work i’m putting into the show that wasn’t actually intended by the creators/writers, no matter how much sexual tension i read into the jetko swordfight.

and like, zuko’s character arc doesn’t actually parallel a queer one all that well to begin with. it’s easy enough to do the work and twist it sideways just enough to make the general points fit, but the fact is, zuko’s arc is not one of self-discovery. it’s not one of coming to understand something fundamental about himself that he can’t change, that he was hated for, and coming out to his father in a dramatic confrontation where he shows that he understands himself and doesn’t need his father’s acceptance to be fulfilled.

zuko’s arc is actually one of trauma and healing. and those can (and often are--like i said, there are more than enough queer trauma narratives in the world, atla really doesn’t need to be one of them) be part of queer narratives, for sure! but they aren’t uniquely queer. and zuko’s confrontation with ozai during the eclipse doesn’t read like a ‘coming out’ at all. (yes, i’ve seen that post. yes, i rolled my eyes and moved on, bc unlike some people, i’m capable of not clowning on correctly tagged posts i disagree with.) zuko is specifically confronting ozai over his abuse, because his arc wasn’t about discovering anything fundamental about himself (and therefore realizing that ozai was hating him for something he couldn’t change)--it was about realizing that he was not at fault for the way his father treated him. it was also about realizing that the fire nation was broken and corrupt at its core, and that his father was an aspect of that he needed to break away from so that he could help the world begin to heal.

he says it himself:

Zuko: No, I've learned everything! And I've had to learn it on my own! Growing up, we were taught that the Fire Nation was the greatest civilization in history. And somehow, the War was our way of sharing our greatness with the rest of the world. What an amazing lie that was. The people of the world are terrified by the Fire Nation. They don't see our greatness. They hate us! And we deserve it! We've created an era of fear in the world. And if we don't want the world to destroy itself, we need to replace it with an era of peace and kindness.

making this about zuko being gay and rejecting ozai’s homophobia, rather than zuko learning fundamental truths about the world and about his home and about how there was something deeply wrong with his nation that needed to be fixed in order for the world to heal (and, no, ‘homophobia’ is not the answer to ‘what is wrong with the fire nation’, i’m still fucking pissed at bryke about that), misses the entire point of his character arc. this is the culmination of zuko realizing that he should never have had to earn his father’s love, because that should have been unconditional from the start. this is zuko realizing that he was not at fault for his father’s abuse--that speaking out of turn in a war meeting in no way justified fighting a duel with a child.

is that first realization (that a parent’s love should be unconditional, and if it isn’t, then that is the parent’s fault and not the child’s) something that queer kids in homophobic households/families can relate to? of course it is. but it’s also something that every other abused kid, straight kids and even queer kids who were abused for other reasons before they even knew they were anything other than cishet, can relate to as well. in that respect, it is not a uniquely queer experience, nor is it a uniquely queer story, and zuko not being attracted to girls (which is what a lot of it seems to boil down to, at the end of the day--cutting down zuko’s potential ships so that only zukka and a few far more niche ships are left standing) is not necessary to his character arc. nor does it particularly make sense.

(and before anyone brings up his date with jin--a) he enjoyed it when she kissed him, and b) he was a traumatized, abused child going out on a first date. of course he was fucking awkward. have you ever met a teenage boy????)

anyway, uh, that was a lot of words, so have a tl;dr: zuko is not gay-coded. there is nothing uniquely gay (or even uniquely queer) about his character arc or characterization, and he was certainly not coded gay in an attempt to sneak a queer character past the censors. if anyone involved with atla was gonna try that, it would’ve been in lok, and as established, they didn’t even manage to queer-code the actual queer relationship before the last few minutes of the final episode. headcanoning zuko as gay is absolutely fine (though if it’s only done to keep him away from female characters he may otherwise be attracted to, that smells more like misogyny than anything else), but insisting that this reading is the only one that makes sense, and anyone who doesn’t agree must be straight (hello, queer woman here making this insanely long thinkpiece) is very much not.

ship what you like, but stop trying to invalidate other ships and other interpretations of characters just to make your ship seem more plausible. it’s really not a good look.

[musclesandhammering]

I'm not fond of the pairing but from what I've seen General public actually loves Sylki very much. Even the trade reviews called the relationship "genius" which,,,ok. Someone did a poll on various platforms, yt, reddit, fb, twitter etc comparing which ship is better (Lokius or Sylki) and it was Sylki who won by large margin in the end. I suppose mostly they just don't care because it's sci fi and a pairing in a totally unrealistic show, and after Wandavision I guess weird ships are 'in' but yeah it makes you think. But the writers already said they won't give in to the fan pressure bc they have their own story to tell (which ok, valid, you do you) but idk. I guess we will get even more Sylki in second season. Tom already said Loki won't stop searching for her

Sometimes I think casual fans are the most irritating thing about being in a fandom :/

Just as a disclaimer (bc I don’t want people coming for me): I think lokius is really cute, and I love fics/art/headcanons about them, but I never thought they were canonically romantically interested in each other. I never thought lokius was gonna be canon, and I never wanted it to (because I didn’t want ANY romance in the series), so I don’t even include it in my argument against s*lki.

Ok so….. listen. This is gonna be a long ass post, so I’m putting it under a cut. Sorry, anon, but you’re the one that opened the Worm Can.

The viewing public, in general, tends to heavily skew towards heterosexual-presenting ships. Partially because a portion of the general audiences are homophobic, and partially because a lot of non-tumblr fans are so sick of hearing tumblr stans go on and on and on about how they were queerbaited by certain gay ships not becoming canon, when in reality, said ships are trash.

Listen. I sympathise with that. I get that. I know I’m beating a hornet’s nest with this, but…. D*stiel? J*hnlock? St*cky? None of those were written in any way to invoke queer undertones, they were always supposed to be platonic, and tbfh even as platonic relationships the first two are literally toxic and abusive as hell, anyway.

So I definitely understand how a casual straight fan on Twitter or Instagram would see some of those same crazy “we were queerbaited” tumblr stans ranting about lokius not becoming canon and how much s*lki sucks and……. it makes sense that they’d be like “These people are just pissed that their gay ship isn’t canon, that’s why they hate s*lki.”

But here’s the thing. I don’t think those people realise how callous it is to say something like that when the only reason queer kids are so quick to ship any two male characters who express a modicum of affection for one another, is that they’re so fucking starved for representation in the first place, they’re willing to see queer romance in any same-sex interaction. They’re just that desperate. That’s where the whole crazy gay stan thing comes from. And yeah, it’s annoying that these people put their whole chest into defending gay ships that are total trash, but you have to realise why they do it.

So, what I’m saying is, for s*lki shippers- who are already winning, because their straight ship had the privilege of easily becoming canon despite all its flaws- to look at queer people who are frustrated to the point of tears that they were once again conned out of any form of queer rep (for the mcu’s first canon queer character, for gods sake) after actually genuinely being queerbaited this time (with his bisexuality/genderfluidity)….. and to essentially gloat that their straight ship became canon and taunt queer people by saying “oh you’re just desperate for two men to kiss”………… idk, man. It just seems real cold to me. Reeks of straight privilege and heteronormativity.

Ok, so with that being said.. let me respond to your actual ask lol.

I’m not surprised at all that s*lki won the popularity polls. I think a large reason for that is the fact that it was pitted against lokius, which sorta rubs a lot of casual viewers the wrong way for reasons listed above. I’m also not surprised that casual viewers liked it outside of its opposition to lokius- because, um, casual viewers aren’t very smart.

They tend to analyse exactly nothing, they don’t look any deeper than the surface, and if the writers of a show stick a hot man and woman together under a blanket, they eat it up. Because the narrative tells them it’s sweet. Just like the narrative tells them Loki is a greasy asshole who had no character development up until this point, and they eat that up too. Just like the narrative tells them that sylvie’s the best thing since sliced bread, and they eat that up too. Just like the narrative tells them it’s completely in character for Loki to try to subjugate a group of 3 random Mongolians in the middle of the dessert for absolutely no reason other than his “narcissism”, and they eat that up too. Just like the narrative tells them that one throwaway line about liking “a bit of both” is somehow this groundbreaking example of lgbt representation, and they eat that up too……… See the pattern here?

And as far as being concerned about the pseudo-incest angle, I don’t even think casual fans even dug that deep. They literally just saw two main characters- a pretty white woman and a hot white man- doing cool fight scenes together and giving each other goo goo eyes, and they were automatically sold.

And the writers saying “we won’t give in to fan pressure, we have our own story to tell” is honestly complete bullshit. What the hell is the POINT of working for a corporate film company and telling a story on screen if not to please the fans??? They do what they do to get people to watch their shows to get lots of money. That’s literally what they’re there for. Mike Waldron must have a pretty damn inflated sense of self importance if he thinks his own “artistic vision” or what the hell ever is the priority here lmao.

And I wanna be mad about Season 2, I really do. But at this point Season 1 ruined the character so much for me that I legitimately don’t even care what direction they take him in.

[lunarfly]

Ok so I decided to finally post the promised: defending Romione (🥺💗💕💖💞💘) against Dr*mione (ಠಿ_ಠ) shippers.

So I've read a few posts about Dr*mione shippers, talking about why their ship is amazing (which had nothing to do with canon btw) and bashing Ron (for no reason) and I'm literally shaking out of anger.

Here are my thoughts:

1. "Ron is too dumb for hermione"

Stop- Just-

Stop.

RON IS NOT DUMB.

Yes, he might not be very interested in school subjects, but 👏 that 👏 doesn't 👏 mean 👏 he 👏 is 👏 dumb 👏.

He is actually very smart! He beat McGonagall's chess game, he is logical and quick-thinking. There's MANY examples of this that I won't name right now, but it's a canonical fact. Ron. Is. Not. Dumb.

And consider he was dumb. So? Would that stop Romione from happening? NO! Hermione didn't mind Ron not being smart. She was just upset that Ron was lazy and wouldn't study anything until the last minute. She wanted to get both Harry and Ron to study according to a schedule.

Is it clear? Intelligence doesn't determine love.

**And this is something that confuses me. This doesn't have anything to do with the point, but why does nobody realize that Harry isn't much smarter than Ron? Yes, he was better at DADA but that requires TALENT, not intelligence. And I'm pretty sure we all know that Ron is talented as well (hopefully everyone realizes that). Nobody uses the fact that Harry wasn't intelligent against Harmione, but everyone uses the fact that Ron wasn't intelligent against Romione. The double standards tear apart the fandom.

2. "Ron bought hermione perfume and Draco could get her something better."

Soooo, you're saying that just because Ron didn't have the money that Draco had means that Hermione didn't deserve Ron?

Wow, this just says a lot about you dr*mione shippers. You only care about the money that Draco has, not his personality. You don't like Ron because he's poor (and I know how FanFics give the "kind Draco" Ron's canon personality so the only "problem" with Ron is his looks and lack of money). And you don't see Hermione nor Ron the way they are. This "point" of yours is literally stating that Hermione should be a gold-digger and get Draco because he can get her the expensive presents that she deserves. Yikes.

3. "Draco can understand the emotional side of Hermione while Ron can't."

Wait

What?

WHERE DO YOU GET THIS IDEA FROM-

Draco is only EVER concerned about his own self, he is a NARCISSIST. He would NEVER care for someone (let alone Hermione) as purely and truly as he cared about himself. He didn't even care about Crabbe, Goyle, Pansy Parkinson etc. He was selfish. The only reason he could express his emotions was because he had to go through a lot since he realized that killing Dumbledore wasn't as easy as bullying Hermione. This would never ever work.

And even if Ron didn't understand her as much, he STILL comforted her. Take the beginning chapters of The Deathly Hallows as an example. You'll see.

4. "Ron is too immature."

I need help.

Of course Ron was immature when he was 11!! Yes, he acted immaturely many times, yes, he made many mistakes, but guess what? He changed! He changed for Hermione!! Draco didn't change at all, not for Hermione, nor for anyone else. He remained the same bratty bully.

If you could reread the books and read prisoner of azkaban vs deathly hallows, you will definitely see how much Ron has matured. He doesn't argue with Hermione anymore, he comforts her, he's there for her. Yes, he made a mistake but he was manipulated by the horcrux! We don't blame Ginny for what tom riddle's diary made her do, do we? So stop blaming Ron!

Anyways, I think if dr*mione shippers have read the books, they'll know what I'm talking about when I say Ron changed for Hermione. I honestly don't know how you could miss Ron's character arc.

5. "Ron would be jealous of the brilliant Hermione."

What?

If I remember correctly, the reason Draco bullied the trio was because he was jealous of them. His jealousy turned into a 7 year torture for the trio and now you're saying that Ron is the jealous one? Please.

But anyways, Ron has been jealous of Harry and has made a few mistakes. But there are reasons behind them and I can defend him for each of these with arguments other than "everyone makes mistakes" (cough cough* Draco stans* cough cough).

First of all, Ron has admitted being jealous of Harry's fame because he lives with 5 older brothers who outshine him. But that's not really a mistake because he never let it get in his way. There were only 2 situations in 7 years when he left Harry out of jealousy but I think these have different explainations.

No1 Ron left in goblet of fire. I think the real reason that Ron let his jealousy get in his way this time, was not only because Harry got to participate in the tournament which could bring him eternal glory, but more likely because he was disappointed that his own best friend didn't even tell him that he was entering and didn't even help him participate (which wasn't true, but Ron thought so back then).

No2 Ron left in deathly hallows. This one was 100% because of the horcrux and I think we should all accept this by now and stop hating on Ron for being affected by dark magic.

And just like that, Ron never let his jealousy get in his way of friendships. I can't think of a situation where Ron is jealous of the brilliant Hermione so if you remember, please let me know so I can argue against it. <3

6. "Ron and Hermione would break up and remain friends, it's easy to imagine because they didn't have a strong relationship."

This was actually said, someone actually said this-

I'm just going to say that Ron and Hermione are happily married to this day (which definitely proves that their relationship is strong) and give the dr*mione community a moment of silence.

7. "Ron didn't do anything for Hermione and was just a jerk."

Coming from a person who has read and reread the books multiple times, I can assure you that Ron did many things for Hermione.

Of course, he was immature at first, he was mean to her, but slowly he started seeing more of the good in Hermione and started changing for her.

And even when he was immature, he still cared about Hermione and would protect her no matter what.

Let's remember how many times rubbish Ron stood up for Hermione against the brilliant bully Draco. 🥰

Let's remember how cowardly Ronald faced his fears of spiders to help Hermione (and the rest of the school, just how jerkier can he get?). 🥰

Let's remember how ridiculous Ronniekins stood up for Hermione against sensational Snape and got himself into detention (oh yes, this is the book version of the movie moment where Ron agrees with Snape about Hermione being an 'insufferable know-it-all'). 🥰

Let's remember how rotten Ronny comforted Hermione when she was worried about Hagrid and Buckbeak (and he even let her hug him and cry on his shoulder, how rude). 🥰

Let's remember how revolting Ronald sacrificed himself to save Harry and Hermione in the chess game. 🥰

Let's remember how horrendous Ron attempted to hex Draco when he used a slur that was meant to offend Hermione. 🥰

Keep in mind that all of these were done when Ron was still immature and still argued a lot with Hermione.

And these aren't even all.

8. "Ron and Hermione have a loveless marriage."

What the-

I'm sorry, I'm trying to be respectful here but this is crap. And the fact that the person said they also had "proof" from the c*rsed ch*ld but didn't want to spoil it-

As much as I hate the c*rsed ch*ld, I can tell you that it did its job portraying Ron and Hermione's unconditional love. Even in alternative realities, where they didn't get married, they were still in love.

And why would you even think that Ron and Hermione would marry and have kids if they didn't love each other? I need explainations.

Next.

9. "Ron never listens to Hermione."

I'm sorry, what? I'm genuinely confused??

What do you even mean by this? Yeah, they used to argue a lot, and? Ron thinks Hermione is brilliant and wonderful and he follows her advice. I can't recall a moment where Ron won't listen to Hermione, doesn't agree with her and ruins her plans. Anyone else?

Since this one is a big mess and a confusion, I'll move on to the next one until someone explains the points and arguments.

10. "Draco could make Hermione laugh while Ron couldn't."

....

Do I really need to say anything for this one?

Ron was the funniest one from the trio, that's why Harry enjoyed his company so much! Don't you remember the line in goblet of fire where Harry thinks about how much he misses having Ron as his best friend, because without him there's less fun and less laughs? I do.

But what I don't remember is finding Draco's sense of humor funny. I'm sorry but his intellectual level is almost as low as Crabbe and Goyle's. His insults are none other than Potty and Weaselbee, he only got 3 O.W.L.s and all of his jokes were stupid and dumb and their only purpose was insulting people he was jealous of.

These fanfics have rotten people's brains...😬

Anyways, I'm going to stop here. I've delayed this post for very long and I'm so excited to finally post it!

I read a book on wattpad by a dr*mione shipper and it was nothing but a giant headache. That's where I got all of these statements from. Most of the garbage in the book revolved around Draco and Hermione being inseparable and getting over all obstacles (wth) and other stupid stuff like that which really annoyed me. The book was called "why we love dr*mione" and it was by Bittenwizard. You can read and enjoy! Trust me, you'll have lots of content to post about after that 🤠👍

*I always try to be respectful to all ships, but sometimes some of them really anger me because the ships are either toxic or the arguments are plain trash. I'm sorry if I offend anyone.

Thank you for reading this. If you're a dr*mione shipper, I hope I've convinced you to give up the ship or come up with better arguments for it.

If you're an anti-dramione I hope you enjoyed the post. I'll delight you with more anti-toxic-ships content. :)

Thank you once again! <3

[wowsoboring]

Deconstructing Baseless Harry Potter Arguments#2 (i) : Harmione Edition

Obviously I once again do not mean to target all Harmione shippers. I know quite a few who're very good human beings and tolerant and accepting above all. However these aren't. In this case, you might sense quite a bit of levelheadedness in the beginning, however you must not be fooled as it goes south and takes a nasty turn very quickly. Don't get your hopes up, this is some of the worst shit I've ever seen, especially the way in which it progresses through its course. Naturally, for this post I have picked my own style of writing which will match that of those redditors. Reddit is the perfect breeding ground for all these weird cults, honestly. I shall be resorting to a formal language and style of conversation, very much like a debater would to sound as pretentious as these do. These posts are found on the instagram handle toxicharmonyshippers who gather such toxic musings and sayings for Harmione shippers while respecting the ones that are nice.

1)

Oh yes, let's use words like 'vehemently' to sound smart, why not? Of course, this little tidbit of the highly stupendous post seems more or less civil at the start. They also have the common decency to say "some Romione shippers" rather than generalizing all of us. Very nice of you, how very saint like. Let's wait till they drop the act and show us their true colors. Harkening back to the argument, I have but one question for you, "where do you find these people?". Where's the proof? Who are these radical Romione shippers who worship Ron and dislike Hermione? I haven't seen any such shippers and I am surrounded by Romione shippers on tumblr, instagram and fan fiction sites as well and haven't met the people you speak of. Some point out her flaws, yes, but no one hates her or dislikes her that much. I have seen two or three Romione shippers across hundreds and thousands who're skeptical of Hermione's perfection. Skeptical. Not hating, disliking, or anything. Of course, unlike this person, I have evidence: find these pi charts for your referral (clickable): https://imgur.com/a/QfPnQbB

you can, through these, see the amount of Hermione bashing across Harry Potter fanfiction and you can see that even in Romione fanfiction there's more Ron bashing. Hermione-bashing is a non-issue. That's what it is. Regarding the "nagging" statement, where's the lie in that? "Annoying" is somewhat subjective, I personally don't find her annoying at all. Who are these people and how often do you find them? "Mary Sue" is only reserved for Movie!Hermione. I have only seen book fans call her that. No one has ever called Book!Hermione Mary Sue. The movie does paint her as a flawless, all-rounder who's also drop-dead gorgeous. Only things she's bad at are flying and divination, all of which she denounces as useless, even though flying is like biking for wizards, divination, sure, not that important. with a teacher like Trelawney, even I would denounce it as hokum.

2)

Remember what I said about waiting for them to show us their true colors, well here they are. Bask in the glory of their senseless arguments. Why, I am from reddit, heck I have 25 thousand karma points on there, I just left because it was too stupid for me but I can argue like them very well. And in this case I would like to say that these people are under the impression that Ron is just there in the story for the sake of existence. And he doesn't work hard. That argument is of course, wrong. Because Ron (in no particular order):

1) fights a troll when he's 11

2) is willing to sacrifice himself when he's 11

3) stands up for his friends

4) makes sure Harry feels like he belongs in the family

5) worries about Harry and rescues him from literal jail

6) stands up against Draco rather than by-standing and enabling his behavior

7) tries his level best to make sure Norbert the dragon is in safe hands and carries it out, albeit not in perfection

8) is with Harry every step of the way in his confronting the basilisk

9) sends Harry and Hermione long letters and calls them often to check up on them

10) stands up on a bitten leg to defend his best friend

11) always apologizes for any of his mistakes and is forgiving when others wrong him

12) works his way to join the Quidditch team unlike Draco who most certainly bought his way in

13) destroys at least 2 horcruxes

14) finds out how to defeat a horcrux

15) has an excellent enough memory and observation to notice Harry speaking parseltongue and also using it to his benefit which proves he's resourceful

now since I have 8 more such pictures to rebut and I do have a life, I will stop. These aren't even a twelfth of the remarkable things Ron has done though, so rest assured.

oh wait what did you say about him just existing and not working for anything? If I recall correctly, he did just as well as Harry did in school and didn't score well only in subjects he didn't care about. Which is true for most people except for Hermione who has an eidetic memory which not everyone has, understandably. Rote memorization is not the best way to get by in life, by the way.

what are the "so many reasons" behind why Harry is the best fit for Hermione? Kindly share so I can rebut those too, I'm rather free nowadays, my finals have been cancelled. You say there are so many reasons but don't even give one, yet you want me to take you seriously. I'm afraid that's impossible.

Romione shipper here, i don't dislike Hermione. I haven't met or seen many people in the book!romione fandom who dislike Hermione (except for Movie!Hermione). The question of someone you like ending up with someone you dislike doesn't particularly make sense. In Friends, Chandler ends up with Monica: now I'm not the biggest Monica fan (I don't hate her but I don't like her very much either) but they are my favorite couple because they make sense. It's about compatibility and character traits, not liking or disliking because that's just a set-up for a ghastly invitation for people to pair up hideousness. "Oh yeah, I like Harry and I also like Hagrid, they should be together. I mean it would be very very disgusting but that's my logic, now, you can't fight it. "- that's how you sound. Please read what you write. Your logic is just...abysmal. That's all I can say without breaking my resolve and berating you with colorful profanities.

3)

This is without the doubt, the easiest one to rebut. It's a delight to see such terrible arguments at my disposal. Come on, dear Harmione shippers, write something that makes me question my choices, not things that make me scoff in disbelief.

In this case, you're essentially providing us with theories. Unproved theories and speculation of what you believe because you'd say anything you like. Where's the proof of your theory, though? Where is that crazy radical Romione shipper who does this? Kindly show me these people. Oh yes, you wanna say we objectify Hermione and disrespect her and view her as a prize. This aches me, that you believe this. No one has ever insinuated this, ever, in the history of anything. What is this winner-loser theory? How do you round off Harry Potter to "an alpha-male ends up with lead-lady" trope and still say you're a fan of the series? Harry Potter doesn't fit in with that format. Ron, Hermione and Harry are co-heroes. Similar to how there's no main character in Friends or the Heroes of Olympus series or the Avengers. We're not living in the 80s anymore. Hermione will be a hero, invariably whether she ends up with Harry, Ron or no one. She ends up with Ron and that's it. Talking about her like this doesn't make you sound any better either. Now you're calling me a misogynist because I don't support the ship of two people who describe themselves as siblings. That's very mature of you. Well here's the thing- I'm not a misogynist. It's as simple as that. I believe that women are capable of anything and everything. I believe Hermione is an amazing person and she is a hero and a different person. I believe the series would be impossible without her. I believe she is no one's prize. There's no requirement of a prize. I just think, similar to canon and the truth and her romantic interest, she will have a great relationship with Ron. There's nothing complex or deep about it, really. No personal weird-thing, no psychological complex, no internalized misogyny. There's nothing deeper than what I said. I am not sexist. I am a feminist. I am all for women empowerment. I love women with the fabric of my being. I love Hermione. I think she's amazing. You only become sexist when you ship people with unstable power dynamics, a bully-victim relation or something of the sort. Neither Romione, nor Harmione are sexist. Heck if you paired Neville with Hermione you wouldn't be sexist. And I hate talking about this so much, I can't even tell you. This talk does make it sound like I treat Hermione like an object and I assure you I respect her and I normally won't talk like this unless someone just outright calls me sexist for something that's not sexist. And this is that situation.

4)

in the case of Romione, no one is too good for anyone. Both are amazing people who're heroes and have done amazing work. That's all I have to say. There's no league, they are romantically interested in each other. I have no intention on sounding lame, but, in love there is no league. As long as you're not putting in any effort and are extremely lazy and leech off of your partner, there is no such concept and no, Hermione is not "too good" for him. Unless of course you're talking about movie Hermione, who is too good for anyone.

5) (halftime!)

oh yes they try to pull this off and wonder why we hate them. Classic. This person likes to sound british, so let's switch up our language, yeah? At least then I won't be out of my element. Let me correct ya, Ron at his best is an amazing, loyal, friendly, brave, strategic hero. There you have it. Ron and 'git' can't be used in the same sentence. Now if you talk about Ron's achievements, I re-iterate you to point two. If it's too much work, here:

1) fights a troll when he's 11

2) is willing to sacrifice himself when he's 11

3) stands up for his friends

4) makes sure Harry feels like he belongs in the family

5) worries about Harry and rescues him from literal jail

6) stands up against Draco rather than by-standing and enabling his behavior

7) tries his level best to make sure Norbert the dragon is in safe hands and carries it out, albeit not in perfection

8) is with Harry every step of the way in his confronting the basilisk

9) sends Harry and Hermione long letters and calls them often to check up on them

10) stands up on a bitten leg to defend his best friend

11) always apologizes for any of his mistakes and is forgiving when others wrong him

12) works his way to join the Quidditch team unlike Draco who most certainly bought his way in

13) destroys at least 2 horcruxes

14) finds out how to defeat a horcrux

15) has an excellent enough memory and observation to notice Harry speaking parseltongue and also using it to his benefit which proves he's resourceful

hey, see, I like Ron and I took the time to copy-paste this instead of asking you to scroll up. And I'm a lot of bad things but I am not lazy. I stick to my deadlines like Hermione. I start my homework in library class and continue it during phys ed the day its given. And I am not exaggerating. Bloody hell, I wish I was. I'm the ceo of deadlines, mate, don't tempt me! So you can see that Ron is much more than just a "nice bloke". And being a "nice bloke" isn't a bad thing either. He's all the things I said: intuitive, strategic, helpful, loyal and on top of that he's also a nice person. Yes, I do see a bit of myself in Ron. I do. I see the insecure side. I waste my time hating myself and criticizing myself and undermining myself, telling me I'm no good. But Ron overcomes that. He inspires me to appreciate myself. Is that a bad thing? Are you going to shame me for having a low self-esteem? Do you want to worsen my low self-esteem and make me feel more like shit?

Now the person who replied to your comment saying, "he isn't a nice bloke most of time.", he is. He is not being nice twice in a span of 7 years. How often do you act rudely or with jealousy? Wasn't Harry yelling at everyone in caps lock in OOTP. Now I don't condemn him for that because he's a fucking hormonal teenager like me and that would make me a hypocrite, but by your logic why don't you condemn him? Or why not condemn Hermione for saying "I only date good Quidditch players" and shoving canaries at Ron's face because someone else kissed him, while she kept using Krum and Cormac to make him jealous. She wasn't being a nice girl, then, was she? Now, once again, i don't dislike her or hold that against her because guess what, mate, I'm a hormonal teenage girl who gets jealous most of the time and would probably react in a similar fashion in the spur of the moment (Not defending her actions here, just putting myself in her shoes.) In short, Ron is a nice bloke MOST OF THE TIME.

6)

It would be misogynistic to think that. The thing is, NO ONE DOES my dear friend! My dear daft friend. I have never heard anyone say that! why are you so hell-bent on portraying us as misogynists when no one ever says that? Stop assuming. Just stop. You are crossing a limit here, aren't you? Yes you are. You cannot say these sort of things. We never said that or believed that, no one ever said this to be a reason to ship Romione. God what is wrong with you? Literally, stop fucking ASSUMING god damn it! Do you want me to assume things about Harmione shippers? Do you want me to go there? Because I will go there! I will go there the moment you tell me to. Just challenge me.

Ron is not a perfect best boi , the reason why so many of us like him is that he's imperfect and tries to become better through the course of time. You are once again assuming and I am once again asking you to stop.

Ron might be an ordinary wizard. He might be poor, sure, but he's a pure-blood and won't face much if he chose not to fight. But he did. He fought. Now I identify with Ron's attitude a fair bit, but I am also likely to spend my day in a library without noticing. People aren't one dimensional. Stop trying to act like you're a psychologist, i know you're not. I don't even think Hermione's overbearing at all! You just insulted someone you're a big fan of. Jesus.

Both Hermione and Ron are strategic, jealous, passionate, feisty, argumentative, intellectual...

that's like 6 similarities. They aren't polar opposites in the slightest. Their differences are just: workaholic, not workaholic. Nerd, not a nerd. Like that's fucking it, man!

8)

being relaxed doesn't make you less independent or driven. A relaxed and levelheaded Hermione will think through things, not be impulsive, not panic etc. She doesn't need Ron. I don't understand your obsession with acting like we ever insinuated that. Then she doesn't need Harry either lol. Stop shipping her with Harry, then or like shut the fuck up. Being a bit relaxed won't stop her or anyone from hitting great strides. Just don't get relaxed to the point you're lazy and casual about everything, that's it.

9)

What do you mean? Ron is balanced. He does finish his work on time. And even if he does procrastinate, she could also help him not and be more driven. Of course, this is an open invitation for you to call me a sexist bitch because I said that she could help him and now you'll think her goal is to help him become better yada yada yada. Fuck off. Defeating the horcrux taught him enough. He respected her. He remembered about the elves when she didn't. He begged to be tortured instead of her. He wouldn't need it because school work and jobs are different and the same person might perceive those differently. Calmness and relaxation doesn't hinder your potential. Not caring and laziness does. You can't function if you work and are stressed 24/7 with zero breaks. Period.

10)

No i do not want (nor does anyone want) Hermione to become Ron. Being slightly calmer doesn't change up your personality. I'm sure many people dislike those sort of fanfics without a doubt. I hate OOC and I don't want Hermione to lose her intellect with Ron because that makes no sense. Ron himself is intellectual and loves arguing with her. They'd boost each other, more like it.

-------

okay thats it i am exhausted as fuck. thanks for reading, i appreciate it. notes and reblogs are appreciated, this takes work.

[discoursecatharsis]

Indefinite hiatus & archiving this account

I’m going to be taking an indefinite hiatus from this account. I’m not sure for how long, and I may or may not return in the future. But for now, I need a break from fandom discourse.

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I initially got involved in fandom “discourse” because I wanted to complain about self-named anti-Otayuris spamming the ship tag and generally being annoying and harassing shippers who were minding their own business. So I made a side account on Tumblr to vent about that. There were other accounts talking about these recent developments in fandom too, and I wanted an account to interact with them on. People started reblogging my posts, and others started to share their experiences of being harassed over ships or fanart or fanfic in their fandoms too in my replies and inbox. I made a Twitter account at some point also. I always just wanted a place to vent with others. I never imagined or expected that my accounts would garner this much attention or would blow up to the level that they’re at now.

As a result, honestly, as my follower numbers have grown and as I’ve gotten more involved in fandom discourse, it’s made me more and more anxious. This account has been making me feel like a nervous wreck the past year or so.

I also just don't have the spoons for much of it anymore. Some days, discourse makes me feel stressed or anxious. Most days, I'm apathetic to it, like it's the same old recycled nonsense. I've done this for a long while now and I feel like I need a nice, long break from it, probably a permanent break.

I believe that the topics involved in fandom discourse, the issue of fantis harassing people and making fandom toxic, etc. are still important to talk about and bring awareness to. But at the same time, I feel like I've done and said all that I can, and I'm feeling burnt out. I’m also feeling like I’m repeating myself at this point. There are only so many times that I can say some variation of “don’t harass people over fanart or fanfic, block artists/writers and leave them alone.” And I know many others are saying this as well. The harassers in fandom definitely do seem like a majority with how loud they are and how they so often get away with what they do. And while it may not seem like it, I do believe that more and more people in fandom are fed up with the harassment and starting to push back, starting to voice their annoyance with fandom harassers, and starting to stand up against it and support each other.

There are definitely more topics related to fandom discourse too, beyond this, of course. Some very serious and important topics to discuss, such as when there is bigotry in fandom spaces. Genuine criticism of various media (minus the harassment) is always good and healthy to have too. And I hope people will continue to talk about these topics and have these meaningful discussions.

I will no longer be active on Twitter or Tumblr, but I may continue making videos on my Youtube channel. I don’t make videos often but I’ve been enjoying it, and I think it’s a better outlet for me to focus my energy on. Creating videos on these topics at my own pace is definitely less stressful than being an active participant on Twitter.

My Twitter DMs will remain closed to new messages, just so if/when I do return, I won’t have a ton of new DMs. But I will leave my Tumblr inbox and curiouscat open for anonymous venting if you need it! Anonymous venting is one reason why I initially made my tumblr account after all, so I want to leave it like that.

I’ve kind of been using my second Twitter account (catharsiscourse) as a makeshift personal account, so if you would like to keep in touch with me, you can follow me there! I’ll only be somewhat active there but that’s where I retweet fanart and such.

You can find links to all of these accounts in my carrd here: https://lizcourserants.carrd.co/#links

Lastly, thank you all so much for the support over the years. I know I’m not perfect and I’ve made some mistakes. My intentions have always been good but I know I would sometimes get caught up in the discourse and miss the mark. So if I’ve ever hurt you in any way or said or did anything wrong, I’m sorry. My goal has always been to vent about and bring awareness to the toxicity that’s been rearing its ugly head in fandom spaces as of late. And even though I’ve messed up at times, I hope I brought more good than bad to the table.

I know fandom’s been a bit hellish to navigate lately and things seem grim at times. But if we keep speaking up like we have been and continue supporting each other and keeping to our groups of trusted fandom friends, I think we’ll be okay.

Remember to be kind and support your friends in fandom. Take care, everyone 🤍

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Also I'm not deactivating. I've worked too hard on my Tumblr blog and Twitter account and such and I couldn't bring myself to delete them lol. So I’ll leave my accounts up as an archive of sorts. But please feel free to bookmark, screenshot, or archive whatever you want or need, just in case my accounts get suspended or something.

Thank you all so much for the support throughout the years! I’m grateful for all of the lovely people I’ve met because of this. I hope you all continue to look out for yourselves and for each other both inside and outside of fandom. Stay safe and take care.❤️

I want to end this with something productive and helpful, so here are links to two organizations dedicated to eliminating child sexual abuse: ECPAT and Thorn. Please help however you can, whether that’s by donating or just sharing these organizations’ donation pages:

https://www.ecpat.org/donate/

https://www.thorn.org/donate/

[kinsey3furry300]

5 ships I hate, why I hate them, how to (kinda) fix them, the better ships you should be doing in that universe, and why you should ignore me and keep writing them if it makes you happy.

Note: this is done for amusement, please don’t be offended; I’m not attacking your ship, I’m just listing some ships I do not always care for, and how I think they could be improved, and maybe made brilliant, by clever writing.

In no particular order, and focusing on ships that often annoy me, with no attempt by me to say anything meaningful or popular about the current state of any particular fandom. I’m also a firm believer in the idea that there’s no such thing as a bad ship, only a badly executed ship, so my objections to these is less a dislike of shipping, or the paring, and more that they raise writing issues that I think are difficult to fix in a satisfying way. That’s why in a lot of the examples below I prefer AU ships to ones that try to messily work it into the cannon. Anyway, enjoy... I guess?

 Marco x / anyone (Animorphs)

Why I hate it: Animrophs is an intensely character-driven story, where the tension of each book comes from the conflicts, external and internal, that the five Animrophs (and Ax) face during a long, hard, traumatic war.  And while several of the character are paired off romantically, it’s always to emphasise character conflict over their different points of view. Jake and Cassie are a pair because Jake’s struggle with having to make hard, grey, morally ambiguous choices as leader is highlighted by Cassie’s burning need to make the right choice, the lesser evil, the choice that leaves some small shred of humanity and dignity and kindness left in this bleak world. Tobias and Rachel are a pair as their arcs deal with literal and figurative loss of humanity, as the slow accumulation of trauma over time turns these happy(ish), normal kids into psychologically ruined husks of their former selves and destroys them slowly, one fight at a time.

Marco’s arc, isn’t about either of these things: Marco’s arc, is about the bright, clear line between A and B, between problem and solution. Marco is a utilitarian, a pragmatist: his concern isn’t the burden of leadership, or the cost of the decision, but about how to put that all aside and make hard decisions that actually work regardless of cost. It’s not about what to do, the path is obvious: the bright, clear line of ruthless logic, but how to do it. His match, his counterpoint, the other character who’s all about the logic of taking awful decision in a way that actually works for the team, and his foil, his female counterpart in this, is not a romantic partner, but his mother: Visser one, making the exact same hard, difficulty ruthless decisions using logic and maths, but for the other side of this war. A romantic paring gets in the way of this arc because a partner doesn’t help him with that bright, clear line, and worse, any attempt to pair him of with either Rachel or Cassie breaks up not only a cannon paring, but their respective character arc.

How to (kinda) fix this: Marco’s arc is, at the end of the day, a trolly problem. So make sure whoever you ship him with is one of the people tied to the tracks. Introduce a character he crushes on, and then in the second act reveal that they are either a Controller, or in the family of a Controller or the proximity of the target of their next mission in a way that will make them collateral damage ,and let Marco struggle with what happens when that bright, clear logical line from A to B cuts through someone he actually loves; you know, like it did with his mother. See, even trying to fix this ship is weirdly Freudian.

The far better ship you should be doing: Ax x / EVERYONE. Ax in human form is described as a worryingly pretty, worryingly androgynous male of indeterminate race. He is a literally Bishonen alien hedonist with no familiarity with human senses, poor impulse control in human form, and no knowledge or understanding of human courtship rituals, and he can shape-shift, including into other members of the core team if needed to compel a mission, he calls Jake his prince,  and he is incredibly close to Tobias, the lonely outcast woobie that the LGBT fans adopted as their poster boy. Come on, the potential for shipping, both with wacky hijinks and sad, tragic star-crossed lovers’ trope is endless. Every line dedicated to Marco shipping is a line of text that could be dedicated to Ax trying to eat a Cinnabon erotically on his first date as a human and hulking out mid way because he forgot just how good they are. What could be better than him leaning into to erotically kiss a team-mate, and then fucking up due to his failure to understand human mouths, making weird mouth sounds, and then licking crumbs of the table in the middle of the mall, in front of the entire school, while his crush awkwardly tried to pretend this is normal? What’s wrong with you Marco-shipper people, do you hate fun?

 Riz/Tem (beastars) Why I hate this ship: Okay, just to quickly ask a question, to people who un-ironically like this as a serious ship and not a dark joke, just one little question: What’s wrong with you? I mean,are you okay? Keep taking the meds: the show is VERY clear on that point.

It’s like those people who say Joker X Harley Quinn is their ideal dark, edgy relationship: no it’s not, it’s abusive! Morticia x Gomez is dark and cool but CONSENTUAL and HEALTHY. This… this is a deeply imbalanced person murdering someone and telling themselves after that fact it was special and rare and magical. ITS HOMICIDE! And even if you write that out (and you shouldn’t, because that changes the character arc of every other major character) it’s still got more red flags that a soviet military parade. This is the botulinum of a toxic, one-sided teenage infatuation. Riz’s entire arc is about how he projects his thoughts and feelings about himself onto this idealised, made-up version of his and Tem’s relationship which, from Tem’s point of view, never existed. Riz never loved Tem: he loved the idea of Tem, the idea that someone would see the real him, see his inner pain and accept him anyway, but he never once told Tem this. He didn’t warn him “Hey, because of you I don’t feel I need my meds any more, do you mind if I try not taking them and we can meet and talk about this in a safe, well-lit pace?” He’s not honest with Tem, and on top of that It doesn’t make sense from the point of view of either of the characters for them to be actually, romantically in love (although  they were clearly close friends), because it undermines and cheepens Riz desire to just be seen and accepted for his real self, and the cannon Tem X Els ship. It also doesn’t make sense from a story point of view: Riz is a shadow archetype for Legosi. He’s what Legosi would have become if someone hadn’t interrupted his attack on Haru. That’s why Legosi needs to beat Riz with his own hands: because then he’s beating the darker version of himself he’s been carrying with him, and he can finally move on with Haru guilt-free. Having Riz and Tem’s relationship actually be what Riz imagined it to be undoes that. It undoes Riz’s interesting, dark inner struggle between truth and fantasy, it turns Tem’s tragic, unsolved murder that sets the entire story in motion into a just sort of weird Romeo-and Juliet suicide. It’s ruins the character arc not only for Riz, but for Legosi, and also, by extension, Louis and Haru, because Legosi’s internal angst over whether or not herbivores and carnivores can have a relationship as true friends needs this example of a tragic, flawed, toxic, failed friendship to bounce off of.

How it could (sort of) work: an AU where Riz’s attack on Tem is interrupted and Tem lives with a slight arm injury, and doesn’t tell anyone out of his complex feelings for Riz. Meanwhile, that bunny girl from the gardening club had been brutally devoured and Rz and/or Tem are so horrified with how close this was to their own near-miss, they start to investigate the murder, and in doing so get caught up in Louis’ inner struggle. Because that’s how the story needs to work, it’s about duality and struggle: and if Riz takes Legosi’s role, and by dating a herbivore he de facto takes the role, so Legosi must take Riz’s. This could be a great AU!

The better ship you should be doing: Pina/Riz (with a dash of Pina x Els), no, seriously, I’m not shitposting. You want to give Riz a redemption arc with a cute woolly boy? How about a story where Pina, out of a need for closure about at happened to him, starts to visit Riz in jail and they talk, mockingly at first, confrontational at first, but later Pina slowly becoming more fascinated in Riz and Tem’s life and asking Riz for more and more detail until they both bond over their shared traumatic experiences and their sense of loss for Tem’s senseless death, Tem’s unfished life casting a shadow over both off them. Eventually, the two of them find, from Legosi who still has the diary, that Tem had planned out an elaborate and beautiful first date with Els that he never got to take her on, and Riz, guilt ridden and sad than Tem never got this beautiful moment, decides to ask Pina take her on that date for Tem, with Riz coaching him by phone cyano-de-Bergerac style, Riz finally getting some closure that he helped one of Tem’s wishes come true and finally acknowledging to himself that Tem had a life and loves outside of him that were cut of short by his actions, and just crying over his lost friend, as Pina and Els slow-dance in Tem memory. Or if you just want to see Tem awkwardly date a carnivore boy from school, why not something less creepy and more wholesome and ship him with Jack? That would be cute AF, and more importantly, not romanticize brutal murder. Or an AU where everything is happy and nice, I’d argue at that it’s no longer Beastars at that point, but if it makes you happy, go for it. Let’s not shame anyone here.

 Snape X Lilly (Harry Potter)

Why I hate this ship: honestly, it’s not for the reason you think; I just like Snape too much as a tragic character, and making him in any way happy destroys his arc in my opinion.  The objection’s others have raised: that Snape acts in a worryingly possessive stalker-ish way towards Lilly, and that if Voldemort had gone for Nevil rather than Harry as a child Snape would have remained a loyal death eater, are true and I acknowledge them as having some validity, but that’s not why I can’t stand this ship. Snape is supposed to be a morally and emotionally complex, tragic figure. That “After all this time?” line was the best line in the Deathly Hallows.  Snape is supposed to show the equality destructive and redemptive power of  love. It’s sort of trinity: Lilly shows the pure power of true, unconditional love in her sacrifice to save Harry, Voldy shows what self-destruction and cruelty a life without understanding love leads to, and Snape sits somewhere in the middle: his one-sided  un-requited love being both the cause of his darkest, and his greatest actions. His curse, and his redemption, fall and rise. Making him happy messes that up.

How to (kinda) fix this ship: make them miserable. Make them fall for each-other only to be pulled apart by circumstance (you know, like they were in the darn original source material). You’re serious about making this a tragic, dark romance? Don’t ship them when they’re at school: Ship them during Voldemort’s rise to power, in the 80’s, after Lilly is married. Have the original Order of the Phoenix send her to meet with Snape and use their previous relation to try to milk some information out of him. Have her feel conflicted about it, have James furious about it, but have her do it anyway for the greater good. Have her meet up secretly with Snape who is angry and distrustful, knowing his must be a trap, and talk. Have the relationship slowly build over time against the backdrop of a cold-war spy thriller, as Lilly slowly realizes that she has some lingering feelings for Snape, but can’t reconcile them her loyalty to the order and her family. Make this a love story of conflicted feelings, divided loyalties, and spy-work against the background of drawing war-clouds. Have Snape offer to leave Voldemort, if she’ll leave the Order, and run away with him, but by that point she knows she’s pregnant and chooses to stay, out of loyalty even though she’s crushing on Snape. Have him show up at the rendezvous expecting for her to be there only for James to lead an Order Ambush, and a fight to ensure, on top of Tower Bridge in the howling wind and rain, Snape surviving but having his spirit crushed and fleeing before Lilly can tell him her true feelings. Make it big, and melodramatic, but above all, make it tragic.  Because that’s the only way Snape works as a character. Always.

The better ship you should be doing: Ginny X Nevil or Luna x Nevil: You want tragic lovers, at school, with divided loyalties, who never get together in the main cannon because a Potter ruins it and gets the girl? Ginny X Nevil. Write what was happening that final year Harry wasn’t at school when they took Dumbledore’s Army and make it work in earnest. Heck, you could even have Snape, as headmaster, hated by them but secretly trying to protect them as a secondary character to their secret, forbidden love. You don’t want to break up Harry X Ginny? Luna X Nevil is sweet and wholesome, but also tragic as they never get a chance, having their school life taken over by the horror of that final year and the need to fight for their very souls in a school run by Death Eaters and the trauma of the Battle of Hogwarts meaning that in order to put away the past and move on, they need to leave each other behind. Hell, do an AU where they canonically end up together, why not? They deserve happiness.

 Dean / Sam AKA Wincest (Supernatural)

Why I hate this ship: They’re brothers. The show even makes a joke about how squick this is. Several times.

How you could (sort of) fix this ship: You can’t: They’re brothers. The show even makes a joke about how squick this is. I guess a body-swap arc could fix this, as it’s less squicky if its just their bodies with someone else’s minds,  but seriously, the reasons why this shouldn’t exist are extensively covered in the show, and it was hilarious.  To be honest, I don’t hate this ship done as a joke, but I have seen some dark spots on the internet, and I can say with all honesty it’s not always treated as a joke. Some folks are really invested in this, and all I can ask is, is your home life okay?

Now, done as a joke, I’m 110% behind this. This is exactly the sort of insane wacky bullshit that makes for a good crack-fic. For example imagine that the supernatural threat of the week was book that made anything written in it come true, and the brothers are trying to find and destroy it, but they keep getting distracted by their burgeoning romantic feelings for each-other, and suddenly realise that the owner of the book is a fan on the in-universe novels, and writing slash-fic in the book. They need to find the writer before they make them do something they’ll both regret, but it’s just so distracting when Sam’s beautiful eyes are right there and- dammit, Sam, it’s happening again! Make Sam less concerned and even a little amused, with it, but make Dean hate what’s going on. Especially when the writer’s description suddenly makes Sam noticeably better hung that him. Make the villain turn out to be Becky from “Sympathy for the devil” and end with them trying to take the book away as she writes frantically to force them to do her bidding, and you’ve got yourself a good fic.

The better ship you should be doing: Cas/Sam or Cas/Dean or Cas/Sam AND Dean fic. Duh. Once again the show-runners beat the fans to the mark and pointed out that this is the best ship, and then they took it away just to fuck with us.

 Any Katniss ship that ignores her obsession with Emotional Security Logic. (The Hunger Games)

Why I hate these ships: Katniss is, briefly put, a mess before the books ever start, her father’s death and harsh upbringing have arguably given her PTSD before she ever volunteers for the reaping, and it doesn’t get better from there.  In psychology, Emotional Security Theory (EST) is a hypothesis that the heightened emotions surrounding repeated violent exposures leaves children vulnerable to dysregulated distress responses and eventual psychopathology, aka, why Kat be so messed up.  Her internal monologue makes the books completely clear that her choice in partners is not motivated by normal affections, but by deep, deep fear. A fear of loss, abandonment and death that leads her to make every decision about what minimises her, and her sister’s, exposure to potential physical and emotional harm. It’s frantic, fraught, cold survivalist thinking. And the other characters in the book notice and acknowledge it! “Which of us will she pick?” “She’ll pick whoever she can’t survive without.” Kat doesn’t like herself for it, but she does eventually admit to herself that she makes her decisions like this.

How do we fix this ship: Ship Kat with whoever you like, but give her a good reason to pick them: and in Kat’s mind “A good reason” is based on Emotional Security Logic, she needs to have a pressing reason why this ship makes her and her sister safer. Do that, and you’ve got yourself a good Katniss story. Don’t do that, and while you may or may not have a good story, the person staring in it isn’t Katniss Everdeen anymore.

The better ship you should be writing: Finick X Annie. Or, Haymitch prequel ships

FinAnn. This, this ship has some real potential to it, and is criminally underutilized. Finick and Annie’s relationship is one of the most tragic and romantic in the story, and has so much to offer. Or, if you want to have a hard-bitten character from district 12 struggling with trying to find love in the hellish combat of the games, do a prequel in which Haymitch finds love in the capitol during training, but loses then in the area and turns to drink as a result. Heck, you could even have some fun with this and turn it into a dark comedy, or a great tragic love story, whatever you like. It’s got potential, and his backstory is vague enough you could do a lot with it.

So, tell me below why I’m wrong, and have fun with your writing: just because I hate that ship doesn’t mean you should. Enjoy yourselves.

I’m off to write awful Ax/Pina/Luna Polyjuice’d into Nevil/Cas/Finick fiction set at an anime high-school that fights a magical war against other fictional schools, and there’s nothing you can do to stop me. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!